Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
Ahoy All, I am back on email, at least for today... I used some PEX type stuff, Shark Bite from Lowe's I think, lately to fix a cracked T fitting (a common problem due to an error in mixing the plastic of the fitting) in my polybutyl galley plumbing. It worked OK but it is important to cut the pipe square. The fitting uses an o-ring for the seal and a toothed ring to grab the pipe. I suppose if the o-ring leaks even a tiny bit the liquid could damage the toothed ring if it has the ability to do so. For my black-water system I use PVC pipe and some hose clamped over the pipe. I have had some clogging problems over the years but pump-out boats and pressure from the ship's water system cleared them. The only one I actually saw was from wild rice husks. There have been no leaks and no odor. S/V Bandersnatch Lying Julington Creek FL The website specifically cautions against using it with any supply ...where the system contains...ferrous corrodible components... . ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
Welcome Back, Norm! Where've you been? Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: banders...@earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 9:56 AM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe Ahoy All, I am back on email, at least for today... I used some PEX type stuff, Shark Bite from Lowe's I think, lately to fix a cracked T fitting (a common problem due to an error in mixing the plastic of the fitting) in my polybutyl galley plumbing. It worked OK but it is important to cut the pipe square. The fitting uses an o-ring for the seal and a toothed ring to grab the pipe. I suppose if the o-ring leaks even a tiny bit the liquid could damage the toothed ring if it has the ability to do so. For my black-water system I use PVC pipe and some hose clamped over the pipe. I have had some clogging problems over the years but pump-out boats and pressure from the ship's water system cleared them. The only one I actually saw was from wild rice husks. There have been no leaks and no odor. S/V Bandersnatch Lying Julington Creek FL The website specifically cautions against using it with any supply ...where the system contains...ferrous corrodible components... . ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
Sharkbite fittings... I have worked with these and they can be quite convenient. Sharkbite is a brand name and at the moment they don't have any competitive knock-offs that I'm aware of. I have used them in plumbing copper and pex. They can work well when installed carefully. Problems relate mostly to cocking the pipe in the fitting and not getting the pipe seated fully in the fitting; both problems are not that hard to avoid but they're not that hard to cause either. Most installations are not totally perfectly staight, pipe and tubing cuts can be burred (pipe) or not perfectly square (tubing) and either pipe or tube can be slightly out of round or out of spec. In my experience, fully 1/3 to 1/2 of the sharkbite connections require some persuasion to seat properly; it helps _greatly_ if you mark the proper depth of the joint on every pipe or tube before installing a Sharkbite - otherwise after wiggling and pushing the connection it's often purely a guess whether it's made up properly. The other particular of the Sharkbite as I understand them is that their bite depends to some extent on being pressurized and they don't attain as firm a seal at low or no pressure - note particularly for drain lines (actually I've never seen Sharkbites larger than 1 anyway). A small boat uses low pressure, no pressure, and at times even a small negative pressure in a few lines; there is never a pressure of 35psi or above, the environment, I believe, the Sharbites were designed for. I'd like to find some data on the use of Sharkbites in low pressure conditions. Rufus ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
I looked at that website, Ben, and it appears that PEX is designed for water
systems (presumably, potable water) and it doesn't mention anything about
it's use for sanitation hose. Which brings up two questions in my mind.
The website specifically cautions against using it with any supply ...where
the system contains...ferrous corrodible components... . Now I'm not sure
whether there are any ferrous corrodible components in human waste but it
doesn't sound to me as if its manufactured with any odor containing elements
as marine sanitation hose is.
I'm guessing that if your sanitation system is set up with a fresh water
flush system that wouldn't be too much of an issue, but if not, and you're
flushing with salt water, wouldn’t that be an issue? Even with a
recommendation to give the system a minimum of 10 cycles of the pump handle
after use?
Just curious whether that would be something to think about
Steve Weinstein
S/V CAPTIVA
1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376
Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY
All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V
-Original Message-
From: Ben Okopnik
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2011 12:05 PM
To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com
Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 06:00:25PM -0500, Skip Gundlach wrote:
:{))═ So do soda bottles when they have way too much pressure.═ What's
your
point? :{))
Poor choice for comparison, Skip. The fluid in the soda bottles may fly
in all directions; the polyethylene - what the bottle itself is made of
- just expands out from the point of failure. PVC actually shatters, and
the pieces fly in all directions. Given their mass, they can do, and
have done, serious damage and harm.
*That's* my point. :)
Seriously, though, if there were Pex for sanitation (meet up with 1.5
connections), it sounds pretty cool.
First thing off Google:
http://www.pexsupply.com/Wirsbo-Uponor-F1061500-1-1-2-AQUAPEX-100-ft-coil-4786000-p
___
Liveaboard mailing list
Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com
To adjust your membership settings over the web
http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard
To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com
To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com
The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/
To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
The Mailman Users Guide can be found here
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 06:00:25PM -0500, Skip Gundlach wrote:
:{))═ So do soda bottles when they have way too much pressure.═ What's your
point? :{))
Poor choice for comparison, Skip. The fluid in the soda bottles may fly
in all directions; the polyethylene - what the bottle itself is made of
- just expands out from the point of failure. PVC actually shatters, and
the pieces fly in all directions. Given their mass, they can do, and
have done, serious damage and harm.
*That's* my point. :)
Seriously, though, if there were Pex for sanitation (meet up with 1.5
connections), it sounds pretty cool.
First thing off Google:
http://www.pexsupply.com/Wirsbo-Uponor-F1061500-1-1-2-AQUAPEX-100-ft-coil-4786000-p
You probably don't need a 100' coil of it, but at ~$3/foot, that's not
bad.
As it's cuttable with a knife, how resistant is it to puncture?═
[laugh] Give it a shot. Unless you're using a serrated knife, you'll
still be at it next week. Even if you use a serrated knife, and you try
it on that 1.5 pipe, you'll _still_ be there next week - it'll just
slide off. The only hand tool that works reasonably well is one of those
small, very sharp saws. Otherwise, PEX is a PITA to cut - which makes
it awesome for protecting other stuff from chafe.
If you've never actually played with PEX, take a look at it next time
you're at Home Depot or whatever. It's one of those things that, if
you're a liveaboard, will make your brain light up and seethe with all
sorts of project ideas and a-ha! solutions and all kinds of future
plans. :)
Back to the PVC, if it's hidden (no═sunlight═issues), I'd think it would hold
up pretty well.═ And, as to explosive failure, how many home installations of
sanitary pipe do you know of with failures?═ Even pressure water systems(?)?═
See, this might be the problem: scientists call it filter bias. I
_have_ seen PVC fail, at least four times that I recall off the top. No
violent explosions, but one flooded kitchen, one broken sink drain (a gf
was rooting around under the sink and bumped the piping), one case of
plain dumbth (PVC pipe run through the engine compartment - have some
nice heat to cook off the volatiles!) which sprayed coolant everywhere,
and one installation where, as far as I can tell, the pipe had been
torqued and left under strain.
Oh, just recalled another: flood in the laundry room at a marina near
Beaufort, SC. They had water going to the washing machines through PVC
pipes fastened to the wall. and if I had to make a guess, I'd say that
the heat from the dryers had cooked them.
I'm not saying that you made a horrible choice and that Flying Pig
will sink instanter unless you replace all your plumbing. :) I am saying
that, if I ever had to do up a plumbing system, I don't see anything
that even comes close (e.g., the Sharkbite fittings take a couple of
seconds to install, require no glue, and there's pretty much no way that
they'll leak.)
Ah, Your Majesty, there is no second.
:)
Ben
--
OKOPNIK CONSULTING
Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business
Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming
443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik
___
Liveaboard mailing list
Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com
To adjust your membership settings over the web
http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard
To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com
To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com
The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/
To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
The Mailman Users Guide can be found here
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
Good day, wherever you may be...
On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Ben Okopnik b...@okopnik.com wrote:
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 06:00:25PM -0500, Skip Gundlach wrote:
:{))═ So do soda bottles when they have way too much pressure.═ What's
your
point? :{))
*Poor choice for comparison, Skip. The fluid in the soda bottles may fly
in all directions; the polyethylene - what the bottle itself is made of
- just expands out from the point of failure. PVC actually shatters, and
the pieces fly in all directions. Given their mass, they can do, and
have done, serious damage and harm.
*That's* my point. :)
*
Gotcha - just funnin', of course. The dry ice bombs that middle school
pscience teachers do is fun, though!
Seriously, though, if there were Pex for sanitation (meet up with 1.5
connections), it sounds pretty cool.
First thing off Google:
http://www.pexsupply.com/Wirsbo-Uponor-F1061500-1-1-2-AQUAPEX-100-ft-coil-4786000-p
You probably don't need a 100' coil of it, but at ~$3/foot, that's not
bad.
Indeed - at about half the price of the expensive hose.
As it's cuttable with a knife, how resistant is it to puncture?═
[laugh] Give it a shot. Unless you're using a serrated knife, you'll
still be at it next week. Even if you use a serrated knife, and you try
it on that 1.5 pipe, you'll _still_ be there next week - it'll just
slide off. The only hand tool that works reasonably well is one of those
small, very sharp saws. Otherwise, PEX is a PITA to cut - which makes
it awesome for protecting other stuff from chafe.
If you've never actually played with PEX, take a look at it next time
you're at Home Depot or whatever. It's one of those things that, if
you're a liveaboard, will make your brain light up and seethe with all
sorts of project ideas and a-ha! solutions and all kinds of future
plans. :)
I have, actually, in that the PVCish stuff which came with the boat wasn't
available any more (actually, not at all PVC but don't know what sort of
vinyl it is/was); it's what I've used with all the replacements I did for
supplies (and all-new for the salt water runs to both ends of the boat and
the kitchen (oops - galley!) sink pressure stuff.
(clip)
I'm not saying that you made a horrible choice and that Flying Pig
will sink instanter unless you replace all your plumbing. :) I am saying
that, if I ever had to do up a plumbing system, I don't see anything
that even comes close (e.g., the Sharkbite fittings take a couple of
seconds to install, require no glue, and there's pretty much no way that
they'll leak.)
Are the fittings you refer to sharkbite due to the anti-slip collar, or
are there different fittings of which I'm not aware for that pipe (didn't
see an exploded view on that website)? I don't think I'll pull out the
sanitation PVC just yet, but I have lots of fittings - and rather much pipe
- aboard for the 3/8 stuff which runs fresh and salt water throughout the
boat. The pipe is pex (or, at least, I THINK it is); the fittings are the
same as used on the original stuff aboard, and while not brass (they're
some sort of plastic), look about like this -
http://www.pexsupply.com/HydroPEX-450PX03-1-2-PEX-x-1-2-PEX-Brass-Compression-Coupling-13686000-p
-
and the compression end, if you don't put the hose through it, looks about
like a mushroom once mounted.
Merry Christmas to you and yours, or any of the other holiday greetings, if
this one doesn't fit.
L8R
Skip and crew, sweating in S. FL
--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog
The Society for the Preservation of Tithesis commends your ebriated
and scrutible use of delible and defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
and couth. We are gruntled and consolate that you have the ertia and
eptitude to choose such putably pensible tithesis, which we parage.
Stamp out Sesquipedalianism
___
Liveaboard mailing list
Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com
To adjust your membership settings over the web
http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard
To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com
To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com
The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/
To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org
The Mailman Users Guide can be found here
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] exploding stuffRe: pvc pipe
On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:56:35PM -0500, Skip Gundlach wrote: Good day, wherever you may be... And the same to you! On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Ben Okopnik b...@okopnik.com wrote: *That's* my point. :) Gotcha - just funnin', of course.б═ The dry ice bombs that middle school pscience teachers do is fun, though! I was a Bad Boy during that period of my life: the dry ice and hydrogen experiments just weren't enough of a thrill, so I, um, _managed_ to buy lab supplies by mail. :) Lab-grade iodine and ammonia are SO much more fun! So is a mix of magnesium, aluminum, and iron oxide (the burn scar should still be there in the concrete, just outside Hollywood High, unless they've torn up the street by now. :))) Amazingly, I managed to keep all my fingers and even my eyebrows (my secret? I mastered fuze-making BEFORE anything else. Also, the chemical supply company got hinky and wouldn't sell me liquid sodium.) That's what we call success in the pyrotechnics experimentation biz. :) Are the fittings you refer to sharkbite due to the anti-slip collar, or are there different fittings of which I'm not aware for that pipe (didn't see an exploded view on that website)? http://www.sharkbite.com/usa/ Home Depot carries them; so do a number of other places. Pretty well thought-out gadgets, and comparable to regular fittings in price. Merry Christmas to you and yours, or any of the other holiday greetings, if this one doesn't fit. Ditto to you and yours, my friend! Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
