Re: The Most Boring Thread Ever on London.pm : Cool Letter Heads
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 08:26:55PM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: Damian Conway [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: Hecate was the goddess of the night, of magic, and travel at night. She was a cousin of Zeus, and dwelt quietly in the Underworld. Hecate was the daughter of Zeus in another treatment of the history though everyone at some point was spawn of Zeus it would seem. And in yet another history, she was the daughter of the titans Perses and Asteria. Boy, people who just read the weekly summary are in for a shock this week ;-) Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
RE: JOB: Anyone interested
FYI this particular role wasn't available; they tried to put me up for some other things but didn't even get as far as interviews. Roger (now working elsewhere) Curious. Identical to my experiences with them. Jon (soon to be working elsewhere)
RE: Komodo
I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue Isn't that a bit harsh? If the Linux version is a Beta / Alpha type deal it seems fair enough they want people to test it with known versions of its dependant apps, no? It its a full release then sure they should be a bit smarter.
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete You mean, "...if you choose to install an OS over the one we're actually supporting for those operations"? Besides 10.0.1 just arrived... P
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: actually supporting for those operations"? No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1. easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed to complete". Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right thing, IMO. P
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right thing, IMO. Probably Eric Raymond. Which reminds me, there used to be a comment in the code for an authentication server at Demon: /* fork early, fork often */ Which was very telling when we found it. -Dom
Broadcast datagrams
Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you
do it:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use Socket;
my $dst = inet_aton("172.30.255.255");
socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname("udp"))
or die "socket: $!";
setsockopt(SOCKET, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, pack("l", 1))
or die "setsockopt: $!";
send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, INADDR_BROADCAST))
#send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, $dst))
or die "send: $!";
For some reason I'm getting "send: Can't assign requested address"
for INADDR_BROADCAST. How can it *not* assign that? Flipping the
comments over works fine (for that subnet) -- in other words, in my
C code, I have to spelunk the interface list with ioctl()s and then
get the sodding broadcast address. Which is a lot of work :-(
FWIW (this is on the failing machine, yes different subnet),
en0: flags=8963UP,BROADCAST,b6,RUNNING,PROMISC,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
ether 00:30:65:7e:d1:96
media: autoselect (none) status: inactive
supported media: none autoselect 10baseT/UTP half-duplex 10baseT/UTP
full-duplex 100baseTX half-duplex 100baseTX full-duplex
Any ideas?
Paul
What did I miss?
'lo again. Had to unsubscribe over Easter due to an ever-inflating inbox and an institutionally enforced disk quota. Just to keep this on topic, has anyone noticed much traffic on the perl-cert list or is my subscription just funted? L. "I wear the cheese. The cheese does not wear me."
RE: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue Isn't that a bit harsh? If the Linux version is a Beta / Alpha type deal it seems fair enough they want people to test it with known versions of its dependant apps, no? umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a production enviroment. I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows, waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under windows ..) I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :) I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl installation... It its a full release then sure they should be a bit smarter. if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: What did I miss?
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:28:58AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: has anyone noticed much traffic on the perl-cert list or is my subscription just funted? No. Greg was going to tell us Ze Master Plan. I think it involves alcohol. -- The best book on programming for the layman is "Alice in Wonderland"; but that's because it's the best book on anything for the layman. - Alan Perlis
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO FWIW, I agree. Not only that, if it conflicts with existing distribution's package management that'd be a nightmare. Paul
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a production environment. IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio springs to mind. I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows, waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under windows ..) I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :) Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;) I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl installation... Let us know what they come back with. if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going back to xemacs to code ;)) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1. The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X. In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to complain about it being non-functional anywhere. That doesn't make sense to me. easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed to complete". Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right thing, IMO. When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the privelege. I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support, and I didn't complain (much). However, that it *still* lacks it is inexcusable. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Broadcast datagrams
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:25:09AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you
do it:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use Socket;
my $dst = inet_aton("172.30.255.255");
socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname("udp"))
or die "socket: $!";
setsockopt(SOCKET, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, pack("l", 1))
or die "setsockopt: $!";
send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, INADDR_BROADCAST))
#send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, $dst))
or die "send: $!";
For some reason I'm getting "send: Can't assign requested address"
for INADDR_BROADCAST. How can it *not* assign that? Flipping the
comments over works fine (for that subnet) -- in other words, in my
C code, I have to spelunk the interface list with ioctl()s and then
get the sodding broadcast address. Which is a lot of work :-(
FWIW (this is on the failing machine, yes different subnet),
en0: flags=8963UP,BROADCAST,b6,RUNNING,PROMISC,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
ether 00:30:65:7e:d1:96
media: autoselect (none) status: inactive
supported media: none autoselect 10baseT/UTP half-duplex 10baseT/UTP
full-duplex 100baseTX half-duplex 100baseTX full-duplex
If you have a complete /usr/src installed, look in there for examples
of how it's done in C (it looks like you have a BSD machine - so it's
quite likely /usr/src is populated).
Darn, your example works on both the Linux and FreeBSD machines I just
tried it on. What machine are you using? On both machines, EADDRNOTAVAIL
(what you're seeing) isn't even listed as an error in the man page.
Try running perl under strace or truss or ktrace, whatever your native
tracing tool is.
-Dom
Re: Broadcast datagrams
Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you do it: Any ideas? Well covered on page 590 of Stein's book... ;-) He uses IO::Socket BTW... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:44:38AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X. One has to assume anyone installing an OS over a different is intelligent enough to read the caveats. In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to complain about it being non-functional anywhere. You're complaining about an ad being misleading (my possibly wrong reading). It's for an OS 9.1 system! Yeah, no burning is a bummer that's definitely true. When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the privelege. That's because you haven't yet written the World's Most Advanced OS :-) I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support, and I didn't complain (much). However, that it *still* lacks it is inexcusable. Oh, what, four weeks later? Jesus -- hard to please some people :-) Not like there are any apps for OS X either! P
Re: Broadcast datagrams
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:49:20AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: If you have a complete /usr/src installed, look in there for examples of how it's done in C (it looks like you have a BSD machine - so it's quite likely /usr/src is populated). The weird thing is this is even happening with Apple's own nextstep bootp client (don't ask :) in C, which is originally the language I was using. I cast the example to perl just to ask here and as a sanity check. Darn, your example works on both the Linux and FreeBSD machines I just tried it on. What machine are you using? On both machines, EADDRNOTAVAIL OS X/Darwin. Thanks for checking though -- I'll keep looking. Paul
Re: Broadcast datagrams
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:02:29AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:49:20AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: If you have a complete /usr/src installed, look in there for examples of how it's done in C (it looks like you have a BSD machine - so it's quite likely /usr/src is populated). The weird thing is this is even happening with Apple's own nextstep bootp client (don't ask :) in C, which is originally the language I was using. I cast the example to perl just to ask here and as a sanity check. Darn, your example works on both the Linux and FreeBSD machines I just tried it on. What machine are you using? On both machines, EADDRNOTAVAIL OS X/Darwin. Thanks for checking though -- I'll keep looking. You're probably going to have to grep through the kernel source to see why it's being returned in that case. And I have a sneaky suspicion that the networking stuff is quite changed from the "normal" BSDs... -Dom
Re: Broadcast datagrams
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:11:45PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: You're probably going to have to grep through the kernel source to see why it's being returned in that case. And I have a sneaky suspicion that the networking stuff is quite changed from the "normal" BSDs... I've been using Rich Stevens's bible and stuff compiles copy/pasted. OK, I can't even ping 255.255.255.255 (when PPP is down, but when it's up it's OK): # ping 255.255.255.255 PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes ping: sendto: No route to host ping: wrote broadcasthost 64 chars, ret=-1 ^C [ppp up] # ping 255.255.255.255 PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=163.571 ms 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=2954.65 ms 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=1968.95 ms # netstat -nr Routing tables Internet: DestinationGatewayFlags Refs Use Netif Expire default209.232.142.2 UGSc30 ppp0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 9 2099 lo0 192.168link#2 UC 00 en0 192.168.0.10:30:65:7e:d1:96 UHLW0 14 lo0 192.168.0.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHLWb 08 en0 So for whatever reason it's not being recognized and turned into an Ethernet 48bit broadcast. Paul
Re: Broadcast datagrams
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:26:56AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:11:45PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: You're probably going to have to grep through the kernel source to see why it's being returned in that case. And I have a sneaky suspicion that the networking stuff is quite changed from the "normal" BSDs... I've been using Rich Stevens's bible and stuff compiles copy/pasted. OK, I can't even ping 255.255.255.255 (when PPP is down, but when it's up it's OK): # ping 255.255.255.255 PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes ping: sendto: No route to host ping: wrote broadcasthost 64 chars, ret=-1 ^C [ppp up] # ping 255.255.255.255 PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=163.571 ms 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=2954.65 ms 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=1968.95 ms # netstat -nr Routing tables Internet: DestinationGatewayFlags Refs Use Netif Expire default209.232.142.2 UGSc30 ppp0 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 9 2099 lo0 192.168link#2 UC 00 en0 192.168.0.10:30:65:7e:d1:96 UHLW0 14 lo0 192.168.0.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHLWb 08 en0 So for whatever reason it's not being recognized and turned into an Ethernet 48bit broadcast. Don't forget that there are 4 different kinds of broadcast. :-) You're using a "limited broadcast address", which is not being interpreted specially by the kernel and is going down the default route. Which probably doesn't exist when you're not dialled up. Hint: "route -n get" is a useful tool for finding out what the kernel would do when presented with an IP address. You'd probably be better off using a subnet-directed broadcast, which does have a route set up for you: 192.168.0.255. According to the book in front of me (UNP2v1, P472): "Another question is: what does a multi-homed host do when the application sends a UDP datagram to 255.255.255.255? Some systems send a single broadcast on the primary interface (the first interface that was configured) with the destination IP address set to the subnet-directed broadcast address of that interface. Other systems send one copy of the datagram from each broadcast capable interface. Section 3.3.6 of RFC 1122 ``takes no stand'' on this issue. For portability, however, if an application needs to send a broadcast out from all broadcast capable interfaces, it should obtain the interface configuration and do one sendto for each broadcast capable interface with the destination set to that interface's broadcast address." In short, what happens is very system dependent. :-( -Dom
Re: Broadcast datagrams
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:41:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
According to the book in front of me (UNP2v1, P472):
"Another question is: what does a multi-homed host do when the
application sends a UDP datagram to 255.255.255.255? Some systems
send a single broadcast on the primary interface (the first
interface that was configured) with the destination IP address
set to the subnet-directed broadcast address of that interface.
Other systems send one copy of the datagram from each broadcast
capable interface. Section 3.3.6 of RFC 1122 ``takes no stand''
on this issue. For portability, however, if an application needs
to send a broadcast out from all broadcast capable interfaces,
it should obtain the interface configuration and do one sendto for
each broadcast capable interface with the destination set to that
interface's broadcast address."
In short, what happens is very system dependent. :-(
Thanks very much! That's a great help -- if ffFFffFF doesn't work and
it doesn't necessarily have to that's OK. My original code that is
using ioctl(sockfd, SIOCGIFCONF, (caddr_t)ifconf_list will be pressed
back into service :-)
(push @{$books{Paul}}, "UNP" ;)
CPAN search from mozilla address bar
no idea if anyone will find this useful but: if you use mozilla (on linux/*nix at least) stick this: search name="CPAN" description="CPAN Search" method="GET" action="http://search.cpan.org/search" input name="mode" value="module" input name="query" user /search in a file called cpan.src in the searhcplugins directory of your mozilla install. restart mozilla. go the the internet search options, select CPAN as your default Search Engine and hey presto, you can now search cpan direct from the mozilla address bar. only don't tick the display in my sidebar option as it doesn't work. struan
Re: CPAN search from mozilla address bar
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 01:35:25PM +0100, Struan Donald wrote: no idea if anyone will find this useful but: if you use mozilla (on linux/*nix at least) stick this: To do something similar for Netscape, look at http://bofh.concordia.ca/ns/ns-cli.txt (Netscape can call out to a CGI program to parse "commands" in the location bar) -- Actually Perl *can* be a Bondage Discipline language but it's unique among such languages in that it lets you use safe words. -- Piers Cawley
Re: CPAN search from mozilla address bar
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 01:35:25PM +0100, Struan Donald wrote: no idea if anyone will find this useful but: if you use mozilla (on linux/*nix at least) stick this: search name="CPAN" description="CPAN Search" method="GET" action="http://search.cpan.org/search" input name="mode" value="module" input name="query" user /search in a file called cpan.src in the searhcplugins directory of your mozilla install. restart mozilla. go the the internet search options, select CPAN as your default Search Engine and hey presto, you can now search cpan direct from the mozilla address bar. only don't tick the display in my sidebar option as it doesn't work. Is there any way to get this installed into my ~/.mozilla directory instead of installing it globally? I've tried creating a searchplugins directory, but it's not being picked up, even when I remove my localstore.rdf file... -Dom
Tech mtg?
Do we yet know if there's going to be a data projector for the tech meeting? If not, will there be _any_ kind of mechanism for showing things to people? (OHP, blackboard, whatever) .robin.
Re: Tech mtg?
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:24:34PM +0100, Robin Houston wrote: Do we yet know if there's going to be a data projector for the tech meeting? Yes, the Fords kindly dontated the use of theirs again, which I picked up from them on Friday. Now all that remains is me remebering to bring it tomorrow. -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tech mtg?
From: Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:25 PM Do we yet know if there's going to be a data projector for the tech meeting? If not, will there be _any_ kind of mechanism for showing things to people? (OHP, blackboard, whatever) Richard had volunteered to go and pick up the projector from Neil and Nat's house. Is that still a plan? Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: Tech mtg?
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:30:01PM +0100, Richard Clamp wrote: Now all that remains is me remebering to bring it tomorrow. Cool :-) Now I've got no excuse for not finishing my slides... :/ .robin. -- Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!
Re: Mentioned in Dispatches
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:38:26PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Maybe Robin would care to comment on this :) http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/04/p5pdigest/THISWEEK-20010408.html#Robin_Hous ton_Left_On_ALL_WEEK I don't have a lot of time on my hands; I work quickly ;-) I also have a secret mission, which I'll be partially revealing tomorrow... .robin. -- Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio springs to mind. umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows, waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under windows ..) I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :) Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;) ahh yes ... :) I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going back to xemacs to code ;)) you can write code in emacs? ... I always thought it was just a news client ! ( or was it a graphics package .. I forget :) umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind, (which uses gcc ... ) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
* at 18/04 11:58 +0100 Robin Szemeti said: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio springs to mind. umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. i do love the sound of figures being plucked from thin air. struan
RE: Komodo
umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather than the Perl market... Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to Perl itself or the core libs I'd like to know if it...
RE: Komodo
On 18/04/2001 at 15:58 +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac. XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming. Apparently it's all changing with MacPerl 5.6.1 which is much closer to Perl 5.6.1, as p5p people may be noticing. OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less. -- :: paul :: becoming the Mac OS 9 recidivist on yet another list
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? It's more because I have a nicely working perl installation right here, which sits happily in my system's package management system, and I'm not going to mess with it without a *really* good reason. I also refuse to let myself be led down a route which may restrict my ability to upgrade easily in the future. I just did 'sudo rpm -Uvh perl*.rpm' and went from 5.6.0 to 5.6.1, with not a single problem. I doubt it'll be that easy with Activestate and I don't want to find out the hard way that it isn't. They *must* work with any old perl distro (of the right version, of course) or even one that $user has compiled from sources, if they are to be taken seriously. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide? Windows is a better target market for things like this, the need is there but the competition is not. Activestate is in a position of power in the Windows world, they have the Windows Perl market pretty much wrapped up and by the time someone else really tries to get into the race they'll find its already over. I know that their are alternatives like the Indigo and Siemens distros but neither are really commercial. Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market, ActiveState is a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;)) market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the merrier ;) you can write code in emacs? Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in it... ;) umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind, (which uses gcc ... ) I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools. Yet. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
From: "Jonathan Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to Perl itself or the core libs I'd like to know if it... Unfortunately there is a difference between PPM and CPAN modules, which is why you need to check whether the module you require is in the ActiveState repository or the Package List. If you want anything extra curricular (e.g. Template Toolkit) you'll need nmake and hope it works under windows from CPAN. The good thing about PPM is that it does all the installation for you. the bad thing is that it doesn't run any tests. Then again seeing as they've done the job of porting the package you'd hope it was tested at their end. At least that's what _I'm_ hoping. Barbie.
Mourning clothes for London.pm
CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Of course he'll probably be attacked by vampires before that can actually happen. -- mike
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:26:42PM +0100, Dean wrote: I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think even vim can do it now, too. Emacs *is* an IDE. It just doesn't look like all the other ones. -Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?)
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather than the Perl market... Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix? Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time you can get CPAN working on it. ActiveState also comes with some other stuff like the ability to use perl in place of ASP and stuff like pl2bat. You can compile and use your own perl just like you could on a Linux box but it just takes a bit more effort and as the NMS project is showing making things easy is a good thing. (Right watch Cantrell butcher me ;)) I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to Perl itself Ahh yes, through the ActiveState way you can control clippit ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac. XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming. Whats MPW? OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less. Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Dean (Clueless when it comes to macs.) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
Dean wrote: I've been using [Kdevelop] for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Ultraedit does this. It's great and I love it. And it works under Wine.
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:29:43AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Of course he'll probably be attacked by vampires before that can actually happen. Or Greg ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Win32 perl (was: Komodo)
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:17PM +0100, Dean wrote: Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time you can get CPAN working on it. You don't even need to pander to the evil empire. dmake will work in place of nmake, and mingw32 (ie. egcs) works fine for building perl and modules. Last time I did this was a couple of years ago, and it took a _long_ time to compile perl itself. Maybe they've made it faster now. .robin. -- A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal--Panama! --Guy Jacobson
Re: Komodo
On 18/04/2001 at 16:36 +0100, Dean wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac. XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming. Whats MPW? Macintosh Programmer's Workshop: in the full version, includes a shell (yes, on a Mac OS before X!), C and C++ compiler, and various other shellish things. It's free too. (Free as in beer, anyway.) http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/ OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less. Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Yes, but they're not installed by default. (I can't remember if the 'BSD subsystem' is installed by default either though.) It comes on a seperate CD within the OS X shrinkwrap box- you also get OS 9 and OS X base install. You also get ProjectBuilder IDE. http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/ -- :: paul :: fairly clueless with Windows these days
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:36:08PM +0100, Dean wrote: Whats MPW? Macintosh Programmers' Workshop. Delicious... Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then? Yes (on the optional developers CD) .robin. -- Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?
RE: Mourning clothes for London.pm
From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here. Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think even vim can do it now, too. Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing everything in xemacs. Emacs *is* an IDE. It just doesn't look like all the other ones. I was going to argue about the foot print but i use Visual Studio on occasion ;) -Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?) Nah. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Dean wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more. I think even vim can do it now, too. Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing everything in xemacs. There's a nice big "compile" button on the toolbar. When the errors come up, just hit your middle button on them in the *compile* buffer. Couldn't be easier. -Dom
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:55:58PM +0100, Struan Donald wrote: Dean (Cordelia fan) heresy is all very well and good but surely there are limits? Hmm. I know someone who quite fancies Anya. Martin $willow++;
Re: Komodo
Barbie wrote: The good thing about PPM is that it does all the installation for you. the bad thing is that it doesn't run any tests. Then again seeing as they've done the job of porting the package you'd hope it was tested at their end. At least that's what _I'm_ hoping. Yes. The PPM used to be really meagre with builds 5xx (5.005_**) but with 6xx (5.6.*) the situation has improved. I believe they have some kind of semi-automated way of making PPMs from CPAN modules. They have stated that they'll only PPM modules (or versions of modules) that pass their own tests on Windows. I believe the PPM version of Compress::Zlib or Archive::Tar or some such was lagging behind the CPAN release by a couple of versions because the newer versions didn't pass their own tests. So if it's PPMable, it's supposedly been tested by ActiveState (perhaps not by a person, but at least automatically). Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Martin Ling wrote: Hmm. I know someone who quite fancies Anya. Mmm. Anya. Tony
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Who's he? Is he that Wesley bloke that I haven't seen yet? (Note to self: must get around to watching all those Buffy episodes I have on CD.) Cheers, Philip PS: $willow++; -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
RE: Mourning clothes for London.pm
From: Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 5:39 PM Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Who's he? Is he that Wesley bloke that I haven't seen yet? Nah. He's a nobody who's been dating SMG for a while. Apparently they're going to be in the live action Scooby Doo movie together. He's playing Freddie and she's playing Daphne. Alexis Denisof (who plays Wesley) is going out with Alyson Hannigan (Willow). Dave... [local "Hello" correspondent] -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:43:20PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Alexis Denisof (who plays Wesley) is going out with Alyson Hannigan (Willow). For some reason, this is made even worse by the automatic word association of "Wesley" and "Crusher". Excuse me whilst I puke now. -Dom
RE: Tech mtg?
Could someone at State51, please put something useful up on the web page - or post directions to the list - or do _something_ that will make me look a little less disorganised than I really am! state51, 8-10 rhoda street, off brick lane just past junction with bethnal green road: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=533817Y=182479A=YZ=1 tube bethnal green/aldgate east 10 mins, old street/liverpool street 15. number 8 bus (west end - tcr - holborn - bank - right outside here) phone us on 0207 729 4343 this all gives me a creeping sense of deja type, i'll stick something up on the web site if i have time, or if that will give me an excuse for having no actually working demos for tomorrow looking forward to seeing many of you, jo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://state51.co.uk isnt technology a wonder invention
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
* at 18/04 17:47 +0100 Dominic Mitchell said: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:43:20PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Alexis Denisof (who plays Wesley) is going out with Alyson Hannigan (Willow). For some reason, this is made even worse by the automatic word association of "Wesley" and "Crusher". ah, the curse of the TNG generation. I imagine there'll be a real dearth of wesleys for the next 10 to 20 years. struan
RE: Tech mtg?
this all gives me a creeping sense of deja type yeah, i've just looked and realised it says almost exactly the same thing on the website, except in more detail: http://london.pm.org/WhatDo.shtml oh well, i made a nice page for us: http://london.pm.org/places/state51.html ho hum, jo
RE: Tech mtg?
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=533817Y=182479A=YZ=1 Thanks Jo. Ian _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that position. And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide? Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market, your logic is hopelessly flawed. 25% of the windows market is not what you need as the 'windows market' consists mainly of secrataries and home users .. 75% of a Linux market (~100% of which use Perl in some way) is MUCH bigger than 25% of a windows market (0.001% of which would know a programming langauge if it ran up to them in the street and bit them) I'd say the programming market is roughly 50% windows/something else, so whilst windows might have a large user following, its got a relativley small developer following and thats who you need to play to. ActiveState is a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;)) market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the merrier ;) here I agree totally .. if it gets windows point and click programmers using perl it gets my 100% support. if it tries to make me use some weirdo Perl build on linux that is not compatible with various other things then it can go boil its head. you can write code in emacs? Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in it... ;) stop winding me up .. everyone knows emacs is a firewall configuration tool with some other bits bolted on ... dont you just press C-x C-alt-b C-shift-alt-z alt-y pageup-alt-escape-shift-~ to make it insert a space or somesuch? umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind, (which uses gcc ... ) I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools. Yet. I think you'll find that where a tool has a decent UI and helps rather than hinders it will become accepted. if its more trouble than NOT having it then, strangely, it will bomb out like a thing that bombs out a lot. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Broadcast datagrams
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:25:09AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you
do it:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use Socket;
my $dst = inet_aton("172.30.255.255");
socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname("udp"))
or die "socket: $!";
setsockopt(SOCKET, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, pack("l", 1))
or die "setsockopt: $!";
send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, INADDR_BROADCAST))
#send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, $dst))
or die "send: $!";
I'd agree, tho' I don't think you need to pack() the last arg to
setsockopt().
For some reason I'm getting "send: Can't assign requested address"
for INADDR_BROADCAST. How can it *not* assign that? Flipping the
I had a lot of fungames with this (before LDS's book came out!):
Trying both IO::Socket and Socket.pm, I could do either read or
write but not both ... and had that msg.
My definitely working version is:
socket(SOCK, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname('udp'))
|| die "$prog: socket: $!\n";
...
my $rip = INADDR_BROADCAST;
$rip = inet_aton($opt{d}) if defined $opt{d};
my $raddr = sockaddr_in($opt{p}, $rip);
setsockopt(SOCK, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, 1)
|| die "$prog: setsockopt: $!\n";
send(SOCK, $msg . "\015\012", 0, $raddr)
|| die "$prog: send: $!\n";
Which looks the same but for the pack().
--
Chris Benson
Re: The Natives are Revolting
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! LOL at Greg's post. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: The Natives are Revolting
*grins* * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Remember the Liz Castro BBS that I was talking about a few weeks ago. Simon mentioned that a couple of the natives were getting restless and seemed uncomfortable with me being there. Well, one of them has finally snapped and is currently having a real go at me. If you want to take a look, read the thread that starts at: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 Enjoy, Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Beginners Guide
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 08:33:29PM +0100, Chris Benson wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:52:57AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: technical meeting then you can either video it or watch the repeat on 00:35 on Friday night/Saturday morning. umm .. would now be a good time to point out I don't have a television? I assume everyone (that's interested) knows about 'Ask Buffy' at http://www.securityportal.com/buffy/ By Buffy Overflow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) And there was me thinking that Chris was going to say that he doesn't have a TV either. But he didn't. I don't have a TV. But I'm currently camped out in my parents house, and they have 2. But I learn that they will both be obsolete in 5 years when we all the analogue TV transmitters are turned off. Is that relevant? :-) Nicholas Clark
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. That's irrelevant. ActiveState's business is 90% Windows, so they do Windows first. -- ZenHam heh, yeah, but Aretha could be reading out /etc/services and kick just so much ass :)
Re: The Natives are Revolting
At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! LOL at Greg's post. Greg++ -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:29:43AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. You know you've been core hacking too long when you read that as "SVtB's set magic". -- Um. There is no David conspiracy. Definitely not. No Kate conspiracy either. No. No, there is definitely not any sort of David conspiracy, and we are definitely *not* in league with the Kate conspiracy. Who doesn't exist. And nor does the David conspiracy. No. No conspiracies here. - Thorfinn, ASR
Re: The Natives are Revolting
At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! LOL at Greg's post. And now this in a new thread: "Usually BK is the right one. And from what I see, the codes your are handing out are a bumch of BS. The codes maybe right but they are a long way of doing things and I agree with BK. The help you give out is really not that great." Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! LOL at Greg's post. Greg++ You've upset them now : http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4473 /J\
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris ROFLMAO! and for your edification, 'chris' just wrote in reply to jns: " And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away in a programming match. " -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats quite an 'afterthought'. That's irrelevant. ActiveState's business is 90% Windows, so they do Windows first. which is why I said somewhere .. something like ' if it requires activestate perl then thats fine for windows, but its dead in the water for linux' I appreciate what AS do for windows, if what htey do gets windows developers using perl then they have my 100% support. I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a standard perl install. simple as that. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:23:34PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a standard perl install. simple as that. Then don't buy one. Those who do, will. Isn't the free market great? -- Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that faith is his twin brother. - Kahlil Gibran
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:23:34PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a standard perl install. simple as that. Then don't buy one. Those who do, will. Isn't the free market great? but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different incompatible versions a Bad Thing and will make smelly noises about it and blow raspberries whenever I see it :) [1] well alright theres 4 (no .. really that is still in use in places ) and 5.005 and 5.6.x and macperl .. but apart from that -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:34:30PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different incompatible AS Perl on Unix isn't incompatible. -- dngor Every little bit of seaweed kelps.
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: At 22:13 18/04/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! LOL at Greg's post. Greg++ You've upset them now : http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4473 I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal profiles: bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-) Kinda say's it all Neil.
Re: Komodo
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:34:30PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different incompatible AS Perl on Unix isn't incompatible. can't honestly say that I've tried it .. you have the better of me there. My only experience with AS Perl is under windows and it was not that great. It was shed loads better than no Perl at all though, so thanks to em for that. in the *nix variant can you load stuff from CPAN straight in ? my understanding was that you had to wait for some strange process to occur and a .ppm file to appear or you couldn't load the stuff up. .. but I could be worng. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal profiles: bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris And interestingly they both have websites hosted on virtualave.net u (Okay I was bored and followed the links) Neil.
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed 18 Apr, David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk
Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris
ROFLMAO!
and for your edification, 'chris' just wrote in reply to jns:
" And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if
you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away
in a programming match. "
But they *are* only children. ("Chris" claims to be 13 and I bet the others
are not much older.)
Far more interesting is that Castro claims that the "profiles" are copyright
1998 Elizabeth Castro.
(Although "Chris"'s website http://storedscripts.virtualave.net/ is quite,
um, entertaining ...)
Roger
(A *much* older amateur)
--
Roger Horne
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wednesday, April 18, 2001, at 11:55 PM, Neil Ford wrote: One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-) Kinda say's it all Neil. Apparently 13 years old. Bless. (Apologies if this comes through as HTML mail - i'm trying to get mail set up on OS X, but can't get nmh to work, so I'm using OS X's Mail at the moment. Will hack tools in Perl, though.) Marcel -- Damnit, where did the .sig go?
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:55:20PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-) Kinda say's it all Yeah, psy-cop I can understand, but what on earth is rograming, and why would he want to do it to psy-cops? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:03:20AM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote: (Apologies if this comes through as HTML mail - i'm trying to get mail set up on OS X, but can't get nmh to work, so I'm using OS X's Mail at the moment. Will hack tools in Perl, though.) Use Mutt :-) You'll have to re-compile ncurses (the port is b0rked :-( ), but it works lovely. Neil.
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Thursday, April 19, 2001, at 12:12 AM, Neil Ford wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:03:20AM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote: (Apologies if this comes through as HTML mail - i'm trying to get mail set up on OS X, but can't get nmh to work, so I'm using OS X's Mail at the moment. Will hack tools in Perl, though.) Use Mutt :-) You'll have to re-compile ncurses (the port is b0rked :-( ), but it works lovely. Neil. I have installed mutt, but just can't warm to it. I like nmh, and using the Mail::Box family of modules, I'll rewrite those tools in Perl (sometime this summer, where there will be SpareTime). Until then, Mac Mail seems to do. It seems like a good opportunity to question taking the availability of a lot of things as a given. For example, nmh. And graphviz - just can't get it to work, and not just because of fonts. Or sendmail - I haven't really used it much, just to route my personal mail; but if certain basic tools were available in Perl, they'd run wherever Perl runs. Ah, independence. Marcel -- We are Perl. Your table will be assimilated. Your waiter will adapt to service us. Surrender your beer. Resistance is futile. -- London.pm strategy aka "embrace and extend" aka "mark and sweep"
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:43:09PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here. Heh. A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my response was similar... dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ "Perl Porters, Inc. today announced the release of version .006 of their popular Perl5 compiler suite, codenamed `Rabid Rat'." - Nathan Torkington on p5p (this was a *joke*)
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:43:20PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: From: Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 5:39 PM Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Who's he? Is he that Wesley bloke that I haven't seen yet? Nah. He's a nobody who's been dating SMG for a while. Clarification: That's Freddie Prinz, Jr. His father was the star of Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think. Don't know if it ever made it across the water, though. dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Oh, the irony. - Abigail
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:43:09PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here. Heh. A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my response was similar... Just like Davina McCall she waited until i was married before she gave up and settled for second best! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Thursday, April 19, 2001, at 12:36 AM, David H. Adler wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:43:09PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here. Heh. A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my response was similar... Likewise. However, to both I'd have to prefer Riley. Marcel -- We are Perl. Your table will be assimilated. Your waiter will adapt to service us. Surrender your beer. Resistance is futile. -- London.pm strategy aka "embrace and extend" aka "mark and sweep"
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:20:45AM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote: get it to work, and not just because of fonts. Or sendmail - I haven't really used it much, just to route my personal mail; I ported exim to OS X last week, it was very easy and runs fine (qmail was a dog). Give me another day or so and there'll be a shiny maildir-supporting POP daemon... Is it just me or is OS X's sendmail broken out of the box? Apr 18 16:10:03 localhost sendmail[578]: My unqualified host name (localhost) unknown; sleeping for retry Paul
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
* Marcel Grunauer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Likewise. However, to both I'd have to prefer Riley. bah, Angel is the right answer to this variation. Riley is just for those that don't like a challenge! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
Wednesday, April 18, 2001, 5:37:22 PM, David H. Adler wrote: Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. DHA Clarification: That's Freddie Prinz, Jr. His father was the star of DHA Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think. Don't DHA know if it ever made it across the water, though. Since Sr. is dead, I didn't think there was much chance of confusion. Unless she's waay too into character. -- mike
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
* Mike Jarvis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Wednesday, April 18, 2001, 5:37:22 PM, David H. Adler wrote: Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. DHA Clarification: That's Freddie Prinz, Jr. His father was the star of DHA Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think. Don't DHA know if it ever made it across the water, though. Since Sr. is dead, Buffy always did dig dead guys, and don't start this SMG talk, everyone knows that is Buffy's stage name, not her real name - which is Buffy Summers. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Marcel Grunauer wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here. Heh. A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my response was similar... Likewise. However, to both I'd have to prefer Riley. Can I just add 'Spike!'. L. "I wear the cheese. The cheese does not wear me."
Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm
Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Mike Jarvis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Wednesday, April 18, 2001, 5:37:22 PM, David H. Adler wrote: Mike Jarvis wrote: CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz. DHA Clarification: That's Freddie Prinz, Jr. His father was the star of DHA Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think. Don't DHA know if it ever made it across the water, though. Since Sr. is dead, Buffy always did dig dead guys... Dig _up_ dead guys? -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
