Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
At 14:31 25/05/2001, Leon Brocard wrote: Leon Brocard sent the following bits through the ether: there is also an unofficial technical meet for practicing TPC talks on Saturday from noon at state51: Just to confirm, this is still on. state51 is at 8-10 rhoda street, london e2 7ef: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=E27EFZ=1 See you there, Leon It seems I have Important Stuff To Do and therefore won't be there. Have fun. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl Training in the UK http://www.iterative-software.com/training/
Re: FMD (was Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21)
- Original Message - From: Paul Mison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 3:54 PM Subject: Re: FMD (was Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21) So a program of vaccination and slaughter to erradicate the disease will firstly benefit the tourist industry and then also the meat market. Not that I am a big fan of farmers or the countryside alliance types (and that is being generous) but I think it would be the best solution all round. Ooo ar. No, because the sheer amount of fuss made over FM clobbered the tourist industry- possibly for years, although this is admittely anecdotal and predictive- whereas if we'd quietly vaccinated, accepted no meat exports for a year Or until there were no vaccinated or infected animals left in the UK, whichever came later. ...and then let the farming industry get back on its feet, we'd not have had to kill *three million* animals, and poison water, and close footpaths, and the tourist industry wouldn't have suffered the way it has over the last couple of months. So, why insist on the 'slaughter' bit? Good idea, maybe a polite memo should have been sent to the all the tabloids asking them to keep quiet about it :-)
FMD (was Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21)
Redvers Davies writes: About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious threat to animal health. That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. I'm not taking sides about whether the slaughters are justified. Here, though, are the facts about the disease. FMD causes painful suppurating blisters around the mouth and on the hooves of animals. The blisters break open after a few days and become infected sores up to six cm in size. While the disease cause a higher death rate amoung young animals, it rarely kills adults. However, it makes them lame, unable to eat, and ill. The mouth lesions heal, but in many cases the hoofs can separate from the soft tissue around them. There are no cures or treatments. It's an incredibly hardy virus that spreads easily and exists in many strains. Recovered animals can carry the virus for up to three years, and are generally only immune to reinfection from the same strain for 1-3 years. You can see pictures of the progress of the disease at: http://svs.mri.sari.ac.uk/FandMinx.htm In countries where the virus is endemic, veterinarians must vaccinate at regular intervals. The vaccines only offer protection for a short period of time, are expensive, and in some cases contain live viruses that may infect the animals. Sources: http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/livestock/fmd/ http://svs.mri.sari.ac.uk/NewsFM.htm http://school.discovery.com/homeworkhelp/worldbook/atozscience/f/203700.html http://www.up.ac.za/academic/veterinary/fmd/ Nat
Re: FMD (was Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21)
In countries where the virus is endemic, veterinarians must vaccinate at regular intervals. The vaccines only offer protection for a short period of time, are expensive, and in some cases contain live viruses that may infect the animals. Added to this, it is almost (completely?) impossible to trade meat with countries when you have vaccinated the animals. Vaccinated animals can still carry the disease and other countries obviously do not want to get it. Vaccination is part of a larger solution which still involves culling infected animals, and *also* animals that have been vaccinated againsed the infection.
Re: FMD (was Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21)
On 25/05/2001 at 15:08 +0100, will wrote: In countries where the virus is endemic, veterinarians must vaccinate at regular intervals. The vaccines only offer protection for a short period of time, are expensive, and in some cases contain live viruses that may infect the animals. Added to this, it is almost (completely?) impossible to trade meat with countries when you have vaccinated the animals. Vaccinated animals can still carry the disease and other countries obviously do not want to get it. Vaccination is part of a larger solution which still involves culling infected animals, and *also* animals that have been vaccinated againsed the infection. The massive British export meat market was worth... 300 million UKP last year. Tourism makes billions. The British rural economy could survive with no exported meat. -- :: paul :: stay all day :: if you want to
Re: FMD (was Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21)
On 25/05/2001 at 15:40 +0100, will wrote: The massive British export meat market was worth... 300 million UKP last year. Tourism makes billions. The British rural economy could survive with no exported meat. So a program of vaccination and slaughter to erradicate the disease will firstly benefit the tourist industry and then also the meat market. Not that I am a big fan of farmers or the countryside alliance types (and that is being generous) but I think it would be the best solution all round. Ooo ar. No, because the sheer amount of fuss made over FM clobbered the tourist industry- possibly for years, although this is admittely anecdotal and predictive- whereas if we'd quietly vaccinated, accepted no meat exports for a year, and then let the farming industry get back on its feet, we'd not have had to kill *three million* animals, and poison water, and close footpaths, and the tourist industry wouldn't have suffered the way it has over the last couple of months. So, why insist on the 'slaughter' bit? -- :: paul :: stay all day :: if you want to
RE: FMD (was Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21)
From: will Of course we could just build a super-gun (a-la iraq) and shoot bloated carcasses at Redmond. This is my favouite idea. Pigs In Space Rob --- Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of IBNet Plc. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 04:25:43PM +, Redvers Davies wrote: That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. There was me thinking the threat to animal health was the six inch bolt that gets driven thru' their skulls and ultimately them being wrapped in polystyrene and put on a cold shelf in Sainsbury's... Paul
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
On Fri, 25 May 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 04:25:43PM +, Redvers Davies wrote: That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. There was me thinking the threat to animal health was the six inch bolt that gets driven thru' their skulls and ultimately them being wrapped in polystyrene and put on a cold shelf in Sainsbury's... indeed. there's one thing I can honestly say is 'nothing to do with me guvnor'[1] [1] err apart from my motorcycle leathers .. and I was intending wearing them, not eating em. -- Robin Szemeti Redpoint Consulting Limited Real Solutions For A Virtual World
London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
This is the eighteenth weekly summary of the London Perl Mongers mailing list. For the random week starting 2001-05-21: Don't forget the London.pm website for meetings etc. The next meeting is an social meeting apparently on Thursday 7th June which clashes with elections, although there is also an unofficial technical meet for practicing TPC talks on Saturday from noon at state51: http://london.pm.org/ Paul Makepeace asked about a Perl interface to paypal. Jonathan Peterson found a command line program to do so: http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg05837.html http://members01.chello.se/hampasfirma/ppsend/ Marcel Grunauer has been beavering away producing lots of Perl modules along with some cool attribute ones, stealing all of Damian's ideas for the next three months: http://search.cpan.org/search?mode=authorquery=marcel Barry Pretsell asked for opinions on reading O'Reilly books online using Safari. Robin Houston mentioned a book warez site. Nathan Torkington was disgusted that Perlmongers were advocating pirating the Camel. The conversation descended into a discussion about fair use, whether people write books for money, whether Napster is evil, the definition of stealing, and the whole idea of copyright being outdated: http://safari1.oreilly.com/tablhom.asp?home http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg05857.html Jonathan Peterson asked for a good Windows IMAP mail client. Responses: Outlook Express, Netscape Mail, PC-pine, Eudora, and The Bat. Some flamage ensued. Simon Wistow started a huge election manifesto thread, the fool. People flamed. It turned into a thread about webmail, open source development, and software licenses. People flamed. People flamed about references headers. People flamed about word wrapping. People mentioned just how easy it is to get Text::Autoformat to work automagically eg: http://www.mail-archive.com/london-pm%40lists.dircon.co.uk/msg06054.html It's been one of those weeks with lots of little threads. Here we go: Damian Conway threatened to write Lingua::TokPisin::Perlpela, what to do during the p5p drinking game during an Ilya spree, Dave Cross apparently not being treated like a sex object, amIwroxornot.com, that Angel episode with the hands, Neil Ford dancing around to Sara Cox, perl harbour, a thesis on typographical errors to be presented at the ICA, Canada allowed to use the Icewine name, the encryption dance, TPJ #20 mentioning Buffy, MIME, file magic, delurking with Eh up! Abysinnia!, food exporting, Tie::Hash::Rank, Hacksploitation at Simon Wistow's on Sunday, locale problems, and Lucy unsubscribing because of free beer: http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf http://www.twoshortplanks.com/simon/filmfest/ In other news, you'll all be happy to know that I now have my own eponymous top-level CPAN namespace. Well, maybe: http://use.perl.org/journal.pl?op=displayuid=189 Must stop volunteering for things, Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Iterative Software...http://www.iterative-software.com/ ... My other computer is a 500-node Beowulf cluster
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious threat to animal health. That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are.
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
Redvers Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious threat to animal health. That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. Well, up to a point. Dramatic reduction in yield + high chance of infertility == significant (indirect) risk to animal's health. -- Piers Cawley www.iterative-software.com
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
On Thu, 24 May 2001, Redvers Davies wrote: http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious threat to animal health. That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. and its worth remembering that this is a disease so serious that, now they've started lloking a bit harder, it appears that it had been around for a few months before anyone spotted it .. and many sheep and pigs had caught it and got better *without anyone even noticing* ... now .. thats what I call a serious disease. -- Robin Szemeti Redpoint Consulting Limited Real Solutions For A Virtual World
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
On Thu, 24 May 2001, Piers Cawley wrote: Redvers Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious threat to animal health. That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. Well, up to a point. Dramatic reduction in yield 10% ... and what with a massive milk production surplus ( as demonstrated by the ever increasing price of milk licences) and the rock bottom price for sheep .. both pointers to massive over production that a 10% loss in yield would help address. + high chance of infertility == significant (indirect) risk to animal's health. irrelevant. The majority of the animals bred are eaten long before they get chance to breed themselves. on the plus side, a large number of farmers have used the generous MAFF payouts to convert from hill sheep farming to other more profitable schemes. -- Robin Szemeti Redpoint Consulting Limited Real Solutions For A Virtual World
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 06:00:53PM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Redvers Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious threat to animal health. That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. Well, up to a point. Dramatic reduction in yield + high chance of infertility == significant (indirect) risk to animal's health. Reduction in yield is not a threat to the animal's health. The infertility is temporary. It's interesting that farmers in north wales were getting ten quid a head for lambs las tyear, but are getting a hundred and twenty quid a head from the govt when they;re slaughtered now. Makes you think doesn't it. Who has a vested interest in the disease spreading? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
