networked dopewars

[alex]

clients available for linux and windows here:

http://bellatrix.pcl.ox.ac.uk/~ben/dopewars/

server running here:
slab.org

come and join us, please.

alex

Re: Anyone lose a scarf at the last l.pm meet?

[Dominic Mitchell]

Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tue, Jan 01, 2002 at 02:05:59PM -, Sue Gray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Guys,
> > 
> > I picked up a scarf at the last meet that was left after we cleared the room. 
> > Let me know if its yours and I'll return it. 
> 
> If no-one else claims it - it's mine :)

You'll look lovely in the little pink flowers, I can tell.

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |

Re: leon = famous?

[Greg McCarroll]

* Struan Donald ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> * at 29/12 13:52 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> > leon made kuro5hin: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/12/27/174625/76
> 
> heck, he also made ntk and two or three blogs that i've seen. it's not
> quite how i'd want to go about becoming famous though...

I think Leon will definetly share that view.

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Academics / Real World

[Leon Brocard]

The following is a write up of the Little Languages Workshop that
Simon and Dan went to. At the time, they told us it got a little
flamey. This supports the fact:

http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=2287/ddj0202a/0202a.htm

So, is Perl part of the "Worse is Better" crowd? Why did the academics
think that we hadn't done our research? Why can't academics actually
do something to help the real world rather than play with toy
languages that nobody actually uses?

Leon

ps glad to be back
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Nanoware...http://www.nanoware.org/

... We all live in a yellow subroutine.

Re: Academics / Real World

[Paul Mison]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 10:42:51AM +, Leon Brocard wrote:
> http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=2287/ddj0202a/0202a.htm
> 
> So, is Perl part of the "Worse is Better" crowd?

Evidently. Simon admitted as much, and even if he hadn't, it would be
hard to claim it wasn't. After all, it self-consciously models itself on
the Unix to a fairly large extent, and Unix is *the* worse is better OS.

Does it matter?

> Why did the academics think that we hadn't done our research?

Because Dan admitted he actually hadn't done his research? See:

http://www.ai.mit.edu/~gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg00499.html

(Oh, and if you don't understand continuations either, I found the best
thread to follow was the third one (Seth Gordon's) although the second
(Bruce Lewis's) was also interesting, as it mentioned that Damien had
previously discussed continuation.)

Alternatively, how come Perl didn't have closures until Perl 5, when
people knew about them in the academic community much earlier
(apparently)?

> Why can't academics actually do something to help the real world rather
> than play with toy languages that nobody actually uses?

That is how they help the world; building the concepts and constructs
into a new language is, fairly obviously I'd have thought, easier than
trying to graft them into something that exists in the 'real world'.
Anyway, that's the whole point of academics, to do things that seem
useless at the time, like building strange wooden boxes with rotation
monitors and attaching them to computers and calling them 'mice'...

-- 
:: paul
:: husk 

Re: Academics / Real World

[Mark Fowler]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Leon Brocard wrote:

> So, is Perl part of the "Worse is Better" crowd? Why did the academics
> think that we hadn't done our research?

It's a clash of cultures.  Academics have to justify everything and 
explain everything in minute detail.  Hand waving is what *we* do.

When it comes down to it, you have to understand that we have to follow 
more than one scientific discipline.  We have to concern ourselves with 
Software Engineering as well as Pure Maths aspects of programming.  From 
the former we gain the ability - the confidence - to plough ahead with 
projects when not all is known, knowing we may have to go back and rethink 
or re plan (side note: see branch culling in AI.)  So we skimp - we skip - 
we make shortcuts.  We're lazy (and we like it) 

What's REBOL and BRL2?

BTW, this isn't a jibe at Academics.  Just pointing out the differences.

Later.

Mark.

-- 
s''  Mark Fowler London.pm   Bath.pm
 http://www.twoshortplanks.com/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t->Tputs(cl);for$w(split/  +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t->Tgoto(cm,$_,$y)." $w";select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}

Re: Academics / Real World

[Greg McCarroll]

* Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> So, is Perl part of the "Worse is Better" crowd? Why did the academics
> think that we hadn't done our research? Why can't academics actually
> do something to help the real world rather than play with toy
> languages that nobody actually uses?
> 

I believe that the typical PhD student[1] tends to be very anal when it
comes to the detail. Orthogonal to this is the JFDI attitude, this
sort of person tends to not worry about the detail and hence covers a
wider problem space, but with less quality (whatever that is).

Now, Dr J. Evans Pritchard, Ph.D explains that we should plot anal
attention to detail on the vertical and JFDI mentality on the
horizontal.

  |
A |
N |
A |
L |
  |
  |
  +---
 JFDI

He goes on to say that a language such as ML, will score high on the
vertical, but low on the horizontal. If we mark these scores on our
chart we can see 

  |
A --+
N | |
A | |
L | |
  | |
  | |
  +-|-
 JFDI

that ML, while very anal, has a relatively low area. Whereas a
language such as Perl, has a lower vertical score, but a much much
higher horizontal score

  |
A |
N --+
A | |
L | | 
  | |
  | |
  +-|-
 JFDI

therefore revealing the language as truly great. Dr Pritchard points
out at this stage that only the analness of the language design should
be considered, not that of the typical user. Otherwise Python
would be off the scale.

HTH, 

Greg

[1] Or at least the stereotypical one that I've decided to use so that
this argument works for me.

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

RE: Academics / Real World

[Ivor Williams]

Interesting... My conclusions from reading the write up are slightly
different, in that this is highlighting a culture clash, between academics
and the Perl community.

Do we have any representative in the academic world who are eloquent
speakers? I have a lot of respect for Dan Sugalski, as he is technically
brilliant and very helpful - a shame the audience was not impressed.

I see myself more as a bridgehead between the Perl community and the
commercial world. I _love_ open source software, but it is difficult
persuading colleagues and clients of the benefits. This is a different
battle - I digress.

Incidentally, regarding closures and iterators, Jensen invented a construct
(Jensen's Device) in Algol-60 which implemented iterators using Algol's
'call by name' parameter passing mechanism to the full. This allowed
polymorphism before the term had been coined, and before the terms 'object
orientation' and 'abstract data type' has also been coined.

To summarise, I think everyone can benefit by being receptive to others'
ideas.
If the academics or Perlsters are closing their minds to other communities,
they will miss the good ideas.

Ivor.

-Original Message-
From: Leon Brocard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 03 January 2002 10:43
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Academics / Real World


The following is a write up of the Little Languages Workshop that
Simon and Dan went to. At the time, they told us it got a little
flamey. This supports the fact:

http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=2287/ddj0202a/0202a.htm

So, is Perl part of the "Worse is Better" crowd? Why did the academics
think that we hadn't done our research? Why can't academics actually
do something to help the real world rather than play with toy
languages that nobody actually uses?

Leon

ps glad to be back
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Nanoware...http://www.nanoware.org/

... We all live in a yellow subroutine.


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Re: Academics / Real World

[Leon Brocard]

Paul Mison sent the following bits through the ether:

> Anyway, that's the whole point of academics, to do things that seem
> useless at the time, like building strange wooden boxes with rotation
> monitors and attaching them to computers and calling them 'mice'...

http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs?q=java&submit=Search+Citations&cs=1
http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs?q=perl&submit=Search+Citations&cs=1

There has been a lot of research work done on Java, and as far as I
can tell none in Perl. Very little of the research work appears to
have actually got into the JVM (the JVM hasn't changed much due to
backwards compatibility problems), but there's still a lot of work
that real academics have done. How come there's such a difference?
Would it help if Perl had a larger marketing clout?

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Nanoware...http://www.nanoware.org/

... Divers do it in rubber

Re: Academics / Real World

[Simon Wistow]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:02:07AM +, Paul Mison said:
> > Why did the academics think that we hadn't done our research?
> 
> Because Dan admitted he actually hadn't done his research? See:
> 
> http://www.ai.mit.edu/~gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg00499.html

No, that says that he had done his research but he hadn't understood it. 

I was talking to Dan about the Perl 6 VM at TPC and he's done an
*enormous* amount of research. How many people (including thos language
academics) would have been able to talk about Tomasulo Register Renaming
at the drop of a hat? I hadn't even *heard* of continuations before this
morning.


Perhaps Perl's very strength lies in the fact that it's a language
designed by a linguist rather than theorectical language wranglers.


*cough* Xerox Parc Alto vs Apple Macintosh

Re: Academics / Real World

[Roger Burton West]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:00:58PM +, robin szemeti wrote:
>At the end of the day do we care? no.  they can sit in their ivory towers 
>mulling over some new construct that no one will ever use whilst ridiculing 
>our language,  meanwhile 1000's of people are using it every day  which 
>is more useful is left as an exercise for the reader.

And if we _do_ want to use the new construct, Damian will probably write
a module for it anyway. :-)

Roger

Re: Academics / Real World

[Rob Partington]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
robin szemeti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> bah! .. surely you are having a joke? .. Arc got a very warm response it 
> seems .. a new dialect of Lisp for the web  .. how .. err .. useful.

http://www.paulgraham.com/lib/paulgraham/sec.txt

I don't know about you, but that article says to me that the man knows
what he's talking about.
-- 
rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/

Re: Academics / Real World

[Paul Mison]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:59:23PM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:02:07AM +, Paul Mison said:
> > > Why did the academics think that we hadn't done our research?
> > 
> > Because Dan admitted he actually hadn't done his research? See:
> > 
> > http://www.ai.mit.edu/~gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg00499.html
> 
> No, that says that he had done his research but he hadn't understood it. 

Indeed it does; bad me. (I'll admit that I was going there to understand
continuations, too, and skimread that post once it became clear that Dan
was asking, not answering the question.)

> I was talking to Dan about the Perl 6 VM at TPC and he's done an
> *enormous* amount of research. How many people (including thos language
> academics) would have been able to talk about Tomasulo Register Renaming
> at the drop of a hat? I hadn't even *heard* of continuations before this
> morning.

Indeed. This makes me feel even more of a bad man for my vaguely
trollish behaviour this morning (but then, who else was going to state
the case for the academics?)

> *cough* Xerox Parc Alto vs Apple Macintosh

I'd like to think I was alluding to that process when I was wittering
about the original mouse, but point taken, and probably one of the
better case studies of the process (which I hope Greg's recommended
Apple book covers well...?).

-- 
:: paul
:: not obsessed with macs, oh no 

Re: Academics / Real World

[the hatter]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Paul Mison wrote:

> :: paul
> :: not obsessed with macs, oh no 

So you won't have any views on the various rumours about what apple are
going to be announcing, then ?


the hatter

JOB: Trainer Wanted

[Cross David - dcross]

[I offer no comment on the following]

Prescient Training and Research Centre () are
looking for a Perl trainer to start work on Monday. You'll need to train a
class of one in a course of your own devising for 15 hours a week (9-12
Mon-Fri) for 12 weeks. 

Here's the course description
.

For this you'll be paid £900 (that's in total, not per week).

If you're interested, please contact Philippe Charlet
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 020 7554 8779.

See, I'm still thinking of you all. I could have had this job, but I've
passed it on to you :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
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system.

Re: JOB: Trainer Wanted

[Paul Makepeace]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 02:09:22PM -, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> [I offer no comment on the following]
> 
> Prescient Training and Research Centre () are
> looking for a Perl trainer to start work on Monday. You'll need to train a
> class of one in a course of your own devising for 15 hours a week (9-12
> Mon-Fri) for 12 weeks. 
> 
> Here's the course description
> .
> 
> For this you'll be paid ?900 (that's in total, not per week).

If I read this right, that's 15hrs * 12weeks = 180h for 900quid?
I.e. 5q/hr? I didn't realise the European economy was *that* bad.

Paul

Re: JOB: Trainer Wanted

[Jasper McCrea]

Paul Makepeace wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 02:09:22PM -, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > [I offer no comment on the following]
> >
> > Prescient Training and Research Centre () are
> > looking for a Perl trainer to start work on Monday. You'll need to train a
> > class of one in a course of your own devising for 15 hours a week (9-12
> > Mon-Fri) for 12 weeks.
> >
> > Here's the course description
> > .
> >
> > For this you'll be paid ?900 (that's in total, not per week).
> 
> If I read this right, that's 15hrs * 12weeks = 180h for 900quid?
> I.e. 5q/hr? I didn't realise the European economy was *that* bad.
> 
Maybe they'd pay you in euros, and you'd get the equivalent of £918?

Also, one would have to devise the course.

And it's only a class of one, which could be a big minus if they smelled
bad, or something.

Although you could get lucky, and it might be Alyson Hannigan wanting a
change of career?

Jasper
-- 
Jim: You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These 
 are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. 
 You know... morons.

Re: [ANNOUNCE] of meetings and mailing lists

[Chris Ball]

On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 03:06:43PM +, Paul Mison wrote:
> The next social meeting is on *Friday*, the 4th of January, at the
> Penderel's Oak (as the three Cups is closing for refurbishment for a few
> months, and Thursday is too soon for some people's hangovers).

I'm going to be around for this one, making it my first london.pm meet.
Please be gentle.  :-)

- ~C.
-- 
$a="printf.net"; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a
As to luck, there's the old miners' proverb: Gold is where you find it.

Re: Academics / Real World

[Paul Mison]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 02:05:14PM +, the hatter wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Paul Mison wrote:
> 
> > :: paul
> > :: not obsessed with macs, oh no 
> 
> So you won't have any views on the various rumours about what apple are
> going to be announcing, then ?

Yes. It'll be underwhelming, despite the hype on Apple's front page; it
might, finally, be an LCD iMac, but that's not really that revolutionary
any more, is it? (since you can get a Toshiba version in Morgans now);
and it won't necessarily run OS X, just like the iPod doesn't (although,
of course, an iMac probably would).

The best thing would be Adobe pulling their finger out and shipping an
OS X Photoshop, because there's no way a big chunk of OS 9 users will
shift otherwise.

I'll probably turn out to be completely wrong...

-- 
:: paul
:: husk 

Re: Academics / Real World

[Dominic Mitchell]

Rob Partington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> robin szemeti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > bah! .. surely you are having a joke? .. Arc got a very warm response it 
> > seems .. a new dialect of Lisp for the web  .. how .. err .. useful.
> 
> http://www.paulgraham.com/lib/paulgraham/sec.txt
> 
> I don't know about you, but that article says to me that the man knows
> what he's talking about.

What's more interesting is the follow up article about the technology
that they used.

http://www.paulgraham.com/lib/paulgraham/bbnexcerpts.txt

I loved the idea near the bottom of storing state in closures.  I've
always disliked the apache multiple-process model (for programming in,
anyway).

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |

Re: Academics / Real World

[Dominic Mitchell]

Paul Mison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> (Oh, and if you don't understand continuations either, I found the best
> thread to follow was the third one (Seth Gordon's) although the second
> (Bruce Lewis's) was also interesting, as it mentioned that Damien had
> previously discussed continuation.)

Continuations pop up a lot in relation to the Python "stackless"
development effort.  It might be worth having a look at some of their
documents for understanding.

http://www.stackless.com/spcpaper.htm

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |

Re: Academics / Real World

[Greg McCarroll]

* Paul Mison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > *cough* Xerox Parc Alto vs Apple Macintosh
> 
> I'd like to think I was alluding to that process when I was wittering
> about the original mouse, but point taken, and probably one of the
> better case studies of the process (which I hope Greg's recommended
> Apple book covers well...?).
> 

Yes and no, it is a book about Apple the company so it doesn't look
into the technologies in detail, but it does discuss the people
involved in the processes, such as Atkinson, Raskin and Jobs and the
hurdles they overcame. Add in a nameless party at Xerox (i can't be
bothered to look it up), we have quite an interesting chain here,

 Xerox   -> Atkinson -> Raskin  -> Jobs

Here you can see that while you have the initial great academic ideas,
you need someone to get it to work (Atkinson) on reasonable hardware,
etc. But on its own technologies are pretty useless, you can have the
neatest garbage collection in the world unless you have a
designer/architect who can marry it to other technologies (Raskin and
his big book of Macintosh) and lastly, having the sweetest design for
a product is absolutely no good unless you have a skilled
manager/buisness person who can turn it into a sucessful product.

Greg 

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: Academics / Real World

[Greg McCarroll]

* robin szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> bah! .. surely you are having a joke? .. Arc got a very warm response it 
> seems .. a new dialect of Lisp for the web  .. how .. err .. useful.
> 
> A new dialect of lisp .. I ask you ...
> 

Ha! You won't be so smug when we are all running super fast lisp
machines, ha!

(deja-london.pm)

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: JOB: Trainer Wanted

[David H. Adler]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 02:09:22PM -, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> [I offer no comment on the following]
> 
> Prescient Training and Research Centre () are
> looking for a Perl trainer to start work on Monday. You'll need to train a
> class of one in a course of your own devising for 15 hours a week (9-12
> Mon-Fri) for 12 weeks. 

I have a comment.  They posted a request for perl and java trainers on
clpmisc.  Forced me to post my canned "don't post job stuff here"
message.  :-)

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Learned?  You must be crazy.  Do you think I could play as badly as
this if I had had lessons?  - Patrick Troughton

RE: Academics / Real World

[Ivor Williams]

> * robin szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 
> > bah! .. surely you are having a joke? .. Arc got a very warm response it

> > seems .. a new dialect of Lisp for the web  .. how .. err .. useful.
> > 
> > A new dialect of lisp .. I ask you ...
> > 
> 
> Ha! You won't be so smug when we are all running super fast lisp
> machines, ha!

Then you need the all embracketing perl-to-lisp source code scrunger. Then
everyone is happy.


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RE: Academics / Real World

[Mark Fowler]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ivor Williams wrote:

> Then you need the all embracketing perl-to-lisp source code scrunger. Then
> everyone is happy.

Couldn't we just run LISP on parrot (which is probably simplier.)  If you 
can do that then it's my understanding you could call LISP routines from 
perl 6 and vice versa.

Then we could all program in what we wanted.

What's the barrier to this?  True garbage collection?  Anything else I'm 
missing?

Later.

Mark.

(who has been skim reading the parrot stuff but not paying too much 
attention)

-- 
s''  Mark Fowler London.pm   Bath.pm
 http://www.twoshortplanks.com/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t->Tputs(cl);for$w(split/  +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t->Tgoto(cm,$_,$y)." $w";select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}

Re: JOB: Trainer Wanted

[Simon Wistow]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 05:24:09PM +, robin szemeti said:
> kewl .. I feel I ought to send in an application on behalf of my member of 
> staff Mr Bonobo Moniker
> 
> his details are available at : 
> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/skills/bonobo.html

This reminds me of http://www.monkeybagel.com/shit.html

(That's Systems Hardware Integration Tasks for the filthy minded)

SUPPORT: Do you have any experience in accountancy?

MONKEY: Eep!

SUPPORT: Yes or no?

MONKEY: Eep!

SUPPORT: I have here a straight razor and a quart of gin. I stop cutting
when the gin's all gone.

MONKEY: I used to cook the books for a defense contractor in Iowa.

SYSADMIN: You? But you're a monkey!

MONKEY: And you died in '97. You think you're the only one with a past?

SYSADMIN: Point taken.

SUPPORT: What's your standard consulting rate?

SYSADMIN: Oh, gosh, it's been so long since I freelanced, um, forty, no,
FIFTY-- 

SUPPORT: I'm asking the monkey, dumbass.

MONKEY: Two thousand a day plus expenses, travel and meals included.

SYSADMIN: Two thousand a DAY? For a MONKEY?

MONKEY: Twenty-five hundred. You want me to go three? Keep it up.

SUPPORT: Tell you what. I'll give you that bagel and I won't cut your
thumbs off.

MONKEY: That should do nicely.

Welsh Invasion

[Anthony Fisher]

 Story of, and some photos from, our pathfinding mission
to Wales last December:

 http://2799.org/londonpm/welsh_invasion/

 (Sometimes seems very slow, this may just be my ISP.)

 Tony

Re: JOB: Trainer Wanted

[Dave Cross]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 06:29:09AM -0800, Paul Makepeace ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 02:09:22PM -, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > [I offer no comment on the following]
> > 
> > Prescient Training and Research Centre () are
> > looking for a Perl trainer to start work on Monday. You'll need to train a
> > class of one in a course of your own devising for 15 hours a week (9-12
> > Mon-Fri) for 12 weeks. 
> > 
> > Here's the course description
> > .
> > 
> > For this you'll be paid ?900 (that's in total, not per week).
> 
> If I read this right, that's 15hrs * 12weeks = 180h for 900quid?
> I.e. 5q/hr? 

That's exactly what I meant.

> I didn't realise the European economy was *that* bad.

It isn't. They're taking the piss.

Dave...

-- 

  Don't dream it... be it

Re: JOB: Trainer Wanted

[Dave Cross]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 11:45:32AM -0500, David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 02:09:22PM -, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > [I offer no comment on the following]
> > 
> > Prescient Training and Research Centre () are
> > looking for a Perl trainer to start work on Monday. You'll need to train a
> > class of one in a course of your own devising for 15 hours a week (9-12
> > Mon-Fri) for 12 weeks. 
> 
> I have a comment.  They posted a request for perl and java trainers on
> clpmisc.  Forced me to post my canned "don't post job stuff here"
> message.  :-)

I know. That's how I found out about them. I know, mea maxima culpa - but I 
was desparate[1].

Dave...

[1] But not desparate enought to take it :)

-- 

  .sig missing...

Re: JOB: Trainer Wanted

[Chris Benson]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 02:09:22PM -, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> [I offer no comment on the following]
> 
> Prescient Training and Research Centre () are
> looking for a Perl trainer to start work on Monday. You'll need to train a
> class of one in a course of your own devising for 15 hours a week (9-12
> Mon-Fri) for 12 weeks. 
> 
> Here's the course description
> .
> 
> For this you'll be paid £900 (that's in total, not per week).

+ expenses ???

:-)
 
Lesse, 400/day expenses should cover it ...

Oh, plus hire of intellectual property rights, say another 500/day.

Whoops.

> See, I'm still thinking of you all. I could have had this job, but I've
> passed it on to you :)

All heart :-)

-- 
Chris Benson