Perl outreach
What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Last week at Hacker News Network, among a turnout of 500 people, I saw one other known perlmonger. At AngelHack a few weeks ago, among a similar turnout, I suspect I was the only person knocking up a prototype in perl. And we wonder in a sea of PHP and Rails why no-one registers perl as a good solution. We may have the best tools in the business but that's no help if we don't get out there and demonstrate our technologies. Yes, LPW was great, but where, outside our fishbowl, is perl showing what it can do and how easily it can do it? Does no-one else get the urge to get out there and see what mad problems need solving?
Re: Perl outreach
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:11:56AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Can I make an analogy. I have spent a lot of time working on VMS. In theory I still regard it as a good OS but I don't think there is much work in it. People percieve VMS as running on VAXes and thefore old hat. In the same way there is a perception that Perl goes back to the .com era and Matt's script archive. Maybe the analogy isnt perfect but it helped me...
Re: Perl outreach
There are a number of issues here: 1. Things like mod_php and php-fpm make it really easy and lightweight to deploy PHP to existing systems. There are packages for every *nix OS that contain these and they're trivial to install. I believe the barrier to entry with perl is higher, which makes it less appealing. Likewise, RoR is fairly easy to get going, easier than Perl I would say. 2. While perl *is* used for web stuff, it's not a language made *for* web stuff. It's a swiss army knife. People don't see this as a positive. I think it's partly why Python/Django haven't really taken off. They have their place, but they won't ever made a dent in PHP or RoR. 3. TMTOWTDI has a huge downside: consistency. Having spoken to counts 5 CTOs at big (500 employees) companies in the last few years about this very thing, the answer is always the same: Perl's just too messy. We don't want TMTOWTDI, we just want one way to do it. FWIW, these were all web companies and not my current employer. 4. It's easier to find PHP/Ruby developers than Perl developers. Lowest common denominator approach. On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Last week at Hacker News Network, among a turnout of 500 people, I saw one other known perlmonger. At AngelHack a few weeks ago, among a similar turnout, I suspect I was the only person knocking up a prototype in perl. And we wonder in a sea of PHP and Rails why no-one registers perl as a good solution. We may have the best tools in the business but that's no help if we don't get out there and demonstrate our technologies. Yes, LPW was great, but where, outside our fishbowl, is perl showing what it can do and how easily it can do it? Does no-one else get the urge to get out there and see what mad problems need solving?
Re: London Perl Conference 2012 photos
From: James Laver james.la...@gmail.com https://picasaweb.google.com/104598318166622233830/LondonPerlConference24112012?authuser=0feat=directlink#5814779230205261074 Not entirely flattering. You must have picked a hell of a moment. From: Pedro Figueiredo m...@pedrofigueiredo.org No, this is a hell of a moment: https://picasaweb.google.com/104598318166622233830/LondonPerlConference24112012#5814779296635010610 We honour all requests from people photographed who want their photographs taken down. I would suggest private emails rather than to the list... Photographing conferences has distinct challenges, particularly when people are either not presenting or only presenting for a minute or two. From: William Blunn bill+london...@blunn.org And again; this time without the Redmond-crapware-induced spurious linebreak: https://picasaweb.google.com/104598318166622233830/LondonPerlConference24112012?authuser=0feat=directlink I sent the email from outlook (I usually just use the hotmail web interface with Plain text turned on). I will have to bare this in mind too for future posting... Chris
Re: Perl outreach
On 26/11/2012, at 22:49, andrew-per...@mail.black1.org.uk wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:11:56AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Can I make an analogy. I have spent a lot of time working on VMS. In theory I still regard it as a good OS but I don't think there is much work in it. People percieve VMS as running on VAXes and thefore old hat. In the same way there is a perception that Perl goes back to the .com era and Matt's script archive. Maybe the analogy isnt perfect but it helped me.. We (me, a principal contractor and supported by a well known perl consultancy) are doing fairly sexy and interesting stuff on the latest and greatest hardware 95% in perl. It's a fun and interesting gig. So I can't see the VMS analogy - I doubt there are any sexy new and interesting VMS gigs, while many perl shops I know of have weathered the GFC recessions rather well. On the other hand, theres a local (to me) business who it's clear to me and my friend on the inside that I'd be a really good fit for. But they don't take perl seriously (their perception issue) for the most part which so far has created a pretty big barrier.
Re: Perl outreach
Dave Hodgkinson, I agree with you. Why don't we start an event for everybody with different's kind of subjects to attract people from others groups ? *The Perl community just do events for Perl community*, and people afraid of Perl will be always outside from the circle. We should start do events with another name, to attract people *from everywhere*, and than we show how Perl is fantastic. The solution is simple and we already know that, so let's start talk how fantastic I can solve the problem foo in Perl in a Ruby event, let's talk about Perl in a PostgreSQL event and so go on. And people we will see Perl how Perl really are. -dom -- A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. - Yoda IBM - Business Analytics Optimization Consultant Daniel Mantovani +5511 8538-9897 XOXO On Nov 26, 2012, at 9:11 AM, Dave Hodgkinson daveh...@gmail.com wrote: What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Last week at Hacker News Network, among a turnout of 500 people, I saw one other known perlmonger. At AngelHack a few weeks ago, among a similar turnout, I suspect I was the only person knocking up a prototype in perl. And we wonder in a sea of PHP and Rails why no-one registers perl as a good solution. We may have the best tools in the business but that's no help if we don't get out there and demonstrate our technologies. Yes, LPW was great, but where, outside our fishbowl, is perl showing what it can do and how easily it can do it? Does no-one else get the urge to get out there and see what mad problems need solving?
Re: 25 Years of Perl
On Nov 24, 2012, at 22:43 , David H. Adler d...@panix.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 12:25:33PM +, Dave Cross wrote: Quoting Guinevere Nell guinevere.n...@gmail.com: On that subject, I recall that search.cpan.org sucked at the start and I'm not sure who fixed it (the search) and who maintained CPAN (and it's accumulating wonderful -- and sometimes silly -- modules) but yeah it's the heart of most development ... That's a good point. I know when CPAN started (1995) but I don't know when search.cpan.org launched. Can anyone help there? It was originally Graham's project, so he'd probably be the one to ask. search.cpan.org started in 1998 about the same time as cpan testers search.cpan.org was originally hosted on a Sun Solaris box at Washington University in St. Louis (wustl.edu) by Elaine Ashton due to storage constraints the original site did not keep an unpacked version of CPAN as it does now. It unpacked the tarball to index the cleaned up. During a request for a pod document it would extract the pod from the tarball and cache the generated html, purging the cache as space was needed. I think it was around 2001 that we started keeping CPAN in an unpacked form. In 2003 there was an auction at OSCONN in Portland, won by London PM, which resulted in the colors of search being changed to orange for a while. We did a fund raising campaign to expedite the return to its original color which was quite controversial. Also, cpantesters was originally a static site. I had a script which processed emails sent to a mailing list which generated the files and uploaded them to my isp. I was on a dialup machine at home at the time so this script was run once a day when I got home from work. It later moved to also be hosted at wustl.edu and be more dynamic. Graham.
Re: Perl outreach
Daniel Mantovani said:
Dave Hodgkinson, I agree with you.
Why don't we start an event for everybody with different's kind of
subjects to attract people from others groups ? *The Perl community
just do events for Perl community*, and people afraid of Perl will
be always outside from the circle. We should start do events with
another name, to attract people *from everywhere*, and than we show
how Perl is fantastic.
The solution is simple and we already know that, so let's start talk
how fantastic I can solve the problem foo in Perl in a Ruby event,
let's talk about Perl in a PostgreSQL event and so go on. And people
we will see Perl how Perl really are.
FOSDEM might be a good place to do this. :)
- Salve
--
#!/usr/bin/perl
sub AUTOLOAD{$AUTOLOAD=~/.*::(\d+)/;seek(DATA,$1,0);print# Salve Joshua Nilsen
getc DATA}$='};{';@_=unpack(C*,unpack(u*,':4@,$'.# s...@foo.no
'2!--5-(50P%$PL,!0X354UC-PP%/0\`'.\n));eval {'@_'}; __END__ is near! :)
Re: Perl outreach
On 26/11/12 15:59, Daniel Mantovani wrote: Dave Hodgkinson, I agree with you. Why don't we start an event for everybody with different's kind of subjects to attract people from others groups ? *The Perl community just do events for Perl community*, and people afraid of Perl will be always outside from the circle. We should start do events with another name, to attract people *from everywhere*, and than we show how Perl is fantastic. Good luck with that... Sorry to sound negative, but with the best will in the world, this is a big ask. It's like the BBC and global warming (allegedly) - they have decided that a contrary view is no longer sustainable. Perl is regarded with a similar contrary view in a computing context. It isn't that perl isn't fashionable any more, it is that it is actively being promoted as unfashionable. People will get fired for buying perl. Or (yet another analogy): perl is to programming what smoking is to workplaces - something you do in the comfort of your own home - or in a shelter outside specially constructed for the purpose. Oh and the hubris that Larry promotes as virtue and many perl programmers openly espouse - really does not does win many friends. Dirk
Re: Perl outreach
Fundamentally we fail to answer the question Why Perl? Sure the tools are good. But the common view seems to be that for every good tool Perl has, Ruby or Python have its own (perhaps superior) version. Plack is neat, but a Perl project named after the Ruby port of a Python tool isn't a USP. Find a way to compellingly answer Why Perl (over Ruby or Python)? in a way that growth communities (proggit, hackernews) understand and you'll have started to find a solution. Testing is a bit better, Catalyst is a bit more grown up than Rails, and CPAN is like Ruby Gems only a bit *handwave* better don't really cut it.
Re: Perl outreach
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Dirk Koopman d...@tobit.co.uk wrote: It isn't that perl isn't fashionable any more, it is that it is actively being promoted as unfashionable. People will get fired for buying perl. Or (yet another analogy): perl is to programming what smoking is to workplaces - something you do in the comfort of your own home - or in a shelter outside specially constructed for the purpose. There's possibly an easier explanation than any conspiracy theory. At some point perl fell out of favour to PHP with the CGI process start up problem, and mod_perl's complexity and perhaps even early bugginess (perceived or actual). At that point its usage declined and it got stuck in a positive (in the control theory sense) feedback loop: usage drops, so a business case needs to be made to counter usage dropping, so usage drops, GOTO 10. Meanwhile other languages (PHP, Python, Java, Ruby) catch up and surpass Perl, each on their own various dimensions: PHP's ease of install, Python's relative language simplicity, Rails having a big successful commercial backer, Java an enormous subcontinent of cheap labour, etc. Now, Perl in a sense has two problems: its relatively low usage, and that the other languages frameworks have caught up in some cases surpassed Perl's, so Perl's advantages over other options just aren't seen as that compelling. Perhaps Perl's biggest problem though is it still uses - as a method invocation operator. (Heh, kidding… kinda… not ;) Anyway, those are the two areas I would look into: 1) getting real stats on perl's usage and seeing whether the perception matches reality -- maybe there is a dark pool of perl users that aren't being counted 1b) making perl more accessible, e.g. meetup.com, facebook, etc rather than just this mailing list 2) drawing up a list of really compelling reasons why perl is a good fit for various tasks. And possibly being OK with the battle having been lost in the short/medium term on various fronts (web frameworks) Key IMO is acknowledging the power of perception: maybe perl is amazing at X, Y, Z but if it's not perceived that way some marketing is needed rather than intellectual discussion. Paul
Re: Perl outreach
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Salve J Nilsen sjn+oslo...@pvv.org wrote: «So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in the Perl community saw what happened when one just focuses getting stuff done without spending any attention on software life-cycle management. So, what did we learn? Write software that is easy to understand and fun to read. In fact, try to write software that one only needs to read once, but that one *wants* to read twice. This is difficult, but less so with Perl. You need a language that is flexible and malleable enough so you can express the intention of your code in the way that is best for your readers. This is where Perl shines. If you wield the tool well you can make wonderful things, and if you don't you'll probably end up making crap.» Comments? :) I think you could swap in any language name there, and no-one would be any wiser that you started off with Perl. -P
Re: Perl outreach
Peter Sergeant said:
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Salve J Nilsen sjn+oslo...@pvv.org wrote:
«So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in
the Perl community saw what happened when one just focuses getting
stuff done without spending any attention on software life-cycle
management. So, what did we learn? Write software that is easy to
understand and fun to read. In fact, try to write software that one
only needs to read once, but that one *wants* to read twice. This
is difficult, but less so with Perl. You need a language that is
flexible and malleable enough so you can express the intention of
your code in the way that is best for your readers. This is where
Perl shines. If you wield the tool well you can make wonderful
things, and if you don't you'll probably end up making crap.»
Comments? :)
I think you could swap in any language name there, and no-one would
be any wiser that you started off with Perl.
Would mentioning TIMTOWTDI address your point? e.g. «... This is where
Perl shines. We call this flexibility TIMTOWTDI, and it's a core
philosophy in our language. ...»
Maybe this pitch can be improved in other ways too? (I'm sure if
someone with a better grasp of the English language than myself would
spend a little attention, we could get something useful out of it).
- Salve (one of those Oslo.pm people)
--
#!/usr/bin/perl
sub AUTOLOAD{$AUTOLOAD=~/.*::(\d+)/;seek(DATA,$1,0);print# Salve Joshua Nilsen
getc DATA}$='};{';@_=unpack(C*,unpack(u*,':4@,$'.# s...@foo.no
'2!--5-(50P%$PL,!0X354UC-PP%/0\`'.\n));eval {'@_'}; __END__ is near! :)
Re: Perl outreach
On 26 November 2012 15:59, Daniel Mantovani daniel.oliveira.mantov...@gmail.com wrote: The solution is simple and we already know that, so let's start talk how fantastic I can solve the problem foo in Perl in a Ruby event, let's talk about Perl in a PostgreSQL event and so go on. And people we will see Perl how Perl really are. Or create an event that is interesting to many groups and make sure that Perl has a good contribution to make. Way back in 2005 http://www.unixdaemon.net/events/frameworks-2005-11-annoucement.html was very interesting - perhaps something similar, and topical? I'd also add that as in all things perception is most important. You can't beat that, you have to work with it. Cheers, Edmund.
Re: Perl outreach
On 27/11/2012, at 8:03 AM, Salve J Nilsen wrote: Peter Sergeant said: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Salve J Nilsen sjn+oslo...@pvv.org wrote: «So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in the Perl community saw what happened when one just focuses getting stuff done without spending any attention on software life-cycle management. So, what did we learn? Write software that is easy to understand and fun to read. In fact, try to write software that one only needs to read once, but that one *wants* to read twice. This is difficult, but less so with Perl. You need a language that is flexible and malleable enough so you can express the intention of your code in the way that is best for your readers. This is where Perl shines. If you wield the tool well you can make wonderful things, and if you don't you'll probably end up making crap.» Comments? :) I think you could swap in any language name there, and no-one would be any wiser that you started off with Perl. Would mentioning TIMTOWTDI address your point? e.g. «... This is where Perl shines. We call this flexibility TIMTOWTDI, and it's a core philosophy in our language. ...» Maybe this pitch can be improved in other ways too? (I'm sure if someone with a better grasp of the English language than myself would spend a little attention, we could get something useful out of it). Couple of things: 1. https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/18188_446555698725246_2146270287_n.jpg 2. I don't think language choices make a huge difference. Perl is still huge in the networking and telecoms world, and that's not going to change any time soon. Bioinformatics people seem to be moving over to python a bit due to a. better integration with R than perl (although last time I looked this had improved in perl a bit) and b. because perl gives poor unskilled[1] scientific programmers more than enough rope to hang themselves in comparison to python. I think I've said on this list before that I did an evaluation of Python and Ruby to see if I wanted to do any immediate career development in that area recently, and the answer was basically oh well if I'm going to get paid for doing that stuff it looks OK, although it seems to lack the flexibility of perl, and Ruby has a lot of incomprehensible syntax that will take little getting used to. But for the case where I have a budget to organise a team I can get really good perl people together quickly and easily. [1] Anyone who's looked at scientific code much will know exactly what I mean by this.
Re: Perl outreach
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 09:20:46PM +, Edmund von der Burg wrote: Or create an event that is interesting to many groups and make sure that Perl has a good contribution to make. We had quite a sucessful dynamic language event in 2009 involving (IIRC) Perl PHP JavaScript and prob others. And +1 to Pauls idea of getting our events onto Meetup
Re: Perl outreach
On 27/11/2012, at 10:13 AM, Abigail wrote: For me, the top two reasons I use Perl (and there really isn't a third reason): - It's good enough for most of what I do. - I'm just too damn lazy to learn a different language. I quite agree with this. Or, phrased differently, the cost of learning something else doesn't seem to outweight the benefits. Or to put it yet another way: cross learning a different language in the same class as perl (wide field) is clearly trivial for a competent perl programmer (for some value of trivial that implies an initial discount on productivity or billable hours). So maybe what we should be promoting is that good perl people are valuable in any dynamic language situation where doing things the cheapest possible way isn't the primary goal. (not that perl's expensive - just a focus on cheap at all costs tends to be a sign of very bad management or a toxic industry segment).
Re: Perl outreach
On 26 November 2012 23:26, Kieren Diment dim...@gmail.com wrote: cross learning a different language in the same class as perl (wide field) is clearly trivial for a competent perl programmer (for some value of trivial that implies an initial discount on productivity or billable hours). This. 100 times. So maybe what we should be promoting is that good perl people are valuable in any dynamic language situation where doing things the cheapest possible way isn't the primary goal. (not that perl's expensive - just a focus on cheap at all costs tends to be a sign of very bad management or a toxic industry segment). Between your previous replies, and this one, I'm a bit confused on your stance (so forgive me if I misunderstand). Surely a good Perl developer is a good $lang developer as well? Surely such a developer would take the time to learn one or two other languages... I agree with your premise, but I can't agree with the conclusion. Based on your first statement, there is no need to push, promote, or force Perl onto any client or employer. Perl is not a marketing product, it's not a political party, and not a religion. I don't agree with pushing agendas in this way, even though much of FOSS seems to be going this way recently (I'm surprised those projects don't see the irony in their actions). I think David H was simply asking about positive involvement within the tech community. Sharing our enjoyment of it, our creativity, our lessons from it. This is the best way to see changes of opinion in the people we meet.
Re: Perl outreach
On 27/11/2012, at 1:24 PM, Anthony Lucas wrote: On 26 November 2012 23:26, Kieren Diment dim...@gmail.com wrote: cross learning a different language in the same class as perl (wide field) is clearly trivial for a competent perl programmer (for some value of trivial that implies an initial discount on productivity or billable hours). This. 100 times. So maybe what we should be promoting is that good perl people are valuable in any dynamic language situation where doing things the cheapest possible way isn't the primary goal. (not that perl's expensive - just a focus on cheap at all costs tends to be a sign of very bad management or a toxic industry segment). Between your previous replies, and this one, I'm a bit confused on your stance (so forgive me if I misunderstand). Surely a good Perl developer is a good $lang developer as well? Surely such a developer would take the time to learn one or two other languages... Indeed. I'm a moderately competent with javascript and R for example. Due to the need to deal with stuff that they handle well from time to time. I agree with your premise, but I can't agree with the conclusion. Based on your first statement, there is no need to push, promote, or force Perl onto any client or employer. Yeah I'm usually unclear on complicated answers - it's the bane of my life. I guess there's two aspects. Personal and technical. On the personal, If you want me to run a technical team, you'll be much better off to let me do it with perl at the core, and I'll happily arrange for quick cross training of ruby and python people. If you want me to be a part of a technical team then any dynamic language will do, although you'll have to give me some lead time to reinvent a few mental wheels early on. I would probably not be happy in a hands on coding role in a predominantly Java or C# environment due to the bureaucratic nature of the languages. On the technical side, perl supports a number of different programming styles - procedural, functional, oo, and others. Python and Ruby are much more tied into OO. So it's less likely that a good perl person will need to reach for other languages to demonstrate their competence with a diversity of styles, so their CV may look thinner than those of others'. Perl is not a marketing product, it's not a political party, and not a religion. I don't agree with pushing agendas in this way, even though much of FOSS seems to be going this way recently (I'm surprised those projects don't see the irony in their actions). I think David H was simply asking about positive involvement within the tech community. Sharing our enjoyment of it, our creativity, our lessons from it. This is the best way to see changes of opinion in the people we meet. I get a little upset at the offhand dismissive attitude of much of the Python (there are some really stupid comments about perl in Programming Python for example) and Ruby communities towards perl. Something that's not done much in the reverse (sometimes I do see perl people getting a bit cross about Py/Rb code reinventing infrastructural wheels badly mind you, but that's about it). So what I'm trying to promote is the value of using/knowing a toolchain with a quarter century of history that keeps up with and sets modern approaches, and a general approach of love and acceptance towards everyone in the broader community (except VBA and VBS of course ;-) ). I am somewhat concerned about perl jobs drying up (you can really see this in Sydney for example, but strangely not in Melbourne where the weather is worse and where they are a more cultured bunch), so I'm trying to think of how to deal with this either by creating more perl jobs, or by demonstrating that high level perl skills are extremely useful even for non-perl projects.
Re: Perl outreach
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:26:37AM +1100, Kieren Diment wrote: On 27/11/2012, at 10:13 AM, Abigail wrote: For me, the top two reasons I use Perl (and there really isn't a third reason): - It's good enough for most of what I do. - I'm just too damn lazy to learn a different language. I quite agree with this. Or, phrased differently, the cost of learning something else doesn't seem to outweight the benefits. Or to put it yet another way: cross learning a different language in the same class as perl (wide field) is clearly trivial for a competent perl programmer (for some value of trivial that implies an initial discount on productivity or billable hours). s/perl programmer/programmer/ At Booking.com, we've stop focussing on finding new Perl programmers a long time ago. We're looking for good *programmers* who are willing to learn Perl. Of course, knowing Perl is an advantage, but we've found that for a good and willing programmer, learning a new language isn't the biggest hurdle. A language, after all, is just syntax. And most of the coding work means building upon something existing, making it easier to pick up a language than if you have to start from scratch. So maybe what we should be promoting is that good perl people are valuable in any dynamic language situation where doing things the cheapest possible way isn't the primary goal. (not that perl's expensive - just a focus on cheap at all costs tends to be a sign of very bad management or a toxic industry segment). I would even be more generic. We've succesfully turned C programmers to the dark side, and C isn't a dynamic language. Abigail
Re: Perl outreach
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Abigail abig...@abigail.be wrote: Arguing which language is better seems to be as pointless to me as arguing which car is better, or which brand of hammer. Sure. But that's pretty far removed from giving people compelling reasons to try a specific car. Also: I suspect people interested in getting more people to buy a specific model of car spend a great deal of time arguing about which car is better, and how to make that argument compelling to consumers. People buy car A because it suits *them* better than car B (whether that a rational reason or not is irrelevant), not because it gives a better experience/mileage/whatever between random points. People buy new cars because they're shiny. Testing is better or Catalyst is a bit more grown up than Rails are similar arguments Jeremy Clarkson and his friends are making on Top Gear to decide which car is the best. Joyful to watch, but useless if you want to buy a car that's useful for you. Conveniently buying a car and trying out a new programming language share are different in at least the outlay of thousands of dollars/pounds/whatever. Perhaps this is a reason to avoid car analogies when talking about programming languages. For me, the top two reasons I use Perl (and there really isn't a third reason): - It's good enough for most of what I do. - I'm just too damn lazy to learn a different language. Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach? -P
Re: Perl outreach
On 27/11/2012, at 6:05 PM, Peter Sergeant wrote: Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach? It probably got lost in the length of my last post, but my points re this were: 1. Stealing or creating the latest and greatest. 2. Peace and love.
