Re: Oracle Jobs @ UK? [Was: Re: Obsolete software]

[Chris Benson]

On Tue, Mar 18, 2003 at 12:51:49PM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-03-18 at 12:31, Luis Campos de Carvalho wrote:
> >   I was reading this thread and wondering about how is the oracle DBA market
> > at London. Can anybody here tell me if there is good job offers for a
> > certified oracle DBA at London and surroundings?
> 
> http://www.jobstats.co.uk/jobstats.d/Details.d/Trends.d/SKILL/ORACLE.d/index.html
> http://www.jobstats.co.uk/jobstats.d/Details.d/Trends.d/LOCATION/LONDON.d/index.html

Looks like a qualified maybe. (Up 1% since February!).
-- 
Chris Benson

Re: Oracle Jobs @ UK? [Was: Re: Obsolete software]

[Dave Hodgkinson]

On Tue, 2003-03-18 at 12:31, Luis Campos de Carvalho wrote:
>   Hy list folks.
>   I was reading this thread and wondering about how is the oracle DBA market
> at London. Can anybody here tell me if there is good job offers for a
> certified oracle DBA at London and surroundings?

http://www.jobstats.co.uk/jobstats.d/Details.d/Trends.d/SKILL/ORACLE.d/index.html
http://www.jobstats.co.uk/jobstats.d/Details.d/Trends.d/LOCATION/LONDON.d/index.html


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Oracle Jobs @ UK? [Was: Re: Obsolete software]

[Luis Campos de Carvalho]

  Hy list folks.
  I was reading this thread and wondering about how is the oracle DBA market
at London. Can anybody here tell me if there is good job offers for a
certified oracle DBA at London and surroundings?

  Thank you very much for any informations.

  Best regards.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Luis Campos de Carvalho
  Computer Science Student
  OCP DBA Oracle & Unix Sys Admin
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

- Original Message -
From: "Lusercop" <`the.lusercop'@lusercop.net>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Obsolete software


> On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 11:03:35PM +, Chris Benson wrote:
> > We're spending about 6 hours every Sunday mornings gathering stats
> > for one application :-( It seems that we've also been wasting 2hours
> > a night gathering partial (estimated) stats ... which overwrite the
> > complete stats.  So we're better off with week-old actual values than 1
> > day-old estimates!
> >
> > Isn't Oracle wonderful: "jobs for life"(tm)
>
> %
> [Oracle's work unit licensing], however leads to gainful employment for
people
> who'd otherwise be cluttering up park benches. Justify your job for a
whole
> year by reducing Oracle CPU use by just 5%. :-)
> -- Andrew Mobbs
> %
>
> --
> Lusercop.net - LARTing Lusers everywhere since 2002
>
>

Re: Obsolete software

[Lusercop]

On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 11:03:35PM +, Chris Benson wrote:
> We're spending about 6 hours every Sunday mornings gathering stats
> for one application :-( It seems that we've also been wasting 2hours
> a night gathering partial (estimated) stats ... which overwrite the
> complete stats.  So we're better off with week-old actual values than 1
> day-old estimates!
> 
> Isn't Oracle wonderful: "jobs for life"(tm)

%
[Oracle's work unit licensing], however leads to gainful employment for people
who'd otherwise be cluttering up park benches. Justify your job for a whole
year by reducing Oracle CPU use by just 5%. :-)
-- Andrew Mobbs
%

-- 
Lusercop.net - LARTing Lusers everywhere since 2002

Re: Obsolete software

[Chris Benson]

On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 09:53:52PM +, Tim Sweetman wrote:
> Chris Benson wrote:
> 
> >Bzzzt! in 8i and 9i, Oracle defaults to the Cost Based Optimizer.
> >Unfortunately it needs a (manual)
> >
> > SQL> exec dbms_utilities.gather_schema_statistics('APPS');
> >
> >(or something like that) to work reasonably well. Viz last week a
> >4-table query on out of date statistics -> 15min to use 500MB of temp
> >space then fail.  With current statistics: -> correct results in 0.08 
> >seconds :-}
> >
> FWIW, MySQL and Informix Dynamic Server both need manual stuff done 
> before they gather statistics (though I think the optimisers on both 
> will often do a decent job without the stats)...

We're spending about 6 hours every Sunday mornings gathering stats
for one application :-( It seems that we've also been wasting 2hours
a night gathering partial (estimated) stats ... which overwrite the
complete stats.  So we're better off with week-old actual values than 1
day-old estimates!

Isn't Oracle wonderful: "jobs for life"(tm)
-- 
Chris Benson

Re: Obsolete software

[Tim Sweetman]

Chris Benson wrote:

Bzzzt! in 8i and 9i, Oracle defaults to the Cost Based Optimizer.
Unfortunately it needs a (manual)
	SQL> exec dbms_utilities.gather_schema_statistics('APPS');

(or something like that) to work reasonably well. Viz last week a
4-table query on out of date statistics -> 15min to use 500MB of temp
space then fail.  With current statistics: -> correct results in 0.08 
seconds :-}

FWIW, MySQL and Informix Dynamic Server both need manual stuff done 
before they gather statistics (though I think the optimisers on both 
will often do a decent job without the stats)...

Cheers

Ti

Re: Obsolete software

[Ben]

On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 05:28:18PM +, Chris Benson wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 02:44:07PM +, Frank Booth wrote:
> > 
> > An Oracle query will perform with varying degrees of efficiency,
> > recognising useful indexes etc, based entirely on the sequence of the
> 
> Bzzzt! in 8i and 9i, Oracle defaults to the Cost Based Optimizer.
> Unfortunately it needs a (manual)
> 
>   SQL> exec dbms_utilities.gather_schema_statistics('APPS');
> 
> (or something like that) to work reasonably well. Viz last week a
> 4-table query on out of date statistics -> 15min to use 500MB of temp
> space then fail.  With current statistics: -> correct results in 0.08 
> seconds :-}  

The CBO in Oracle 8.1.6 is also still on a fair amount of crack. I've seen 
it just totally fail to utilise an index. Rule hint is sometimes the
only way to stop it behaving like a knobgoblin.

Happily, Oracle have decided to drop the RBO from the next release of
Oracle. IIRC it's already marked as 'deprecated'. Well, make the CBO 
work properly then, motherfucker!

Ben, having been wrestling with the optimizer for a while now.

Re: Obsolete software

[Mark Rogaski]

An entity claiming to be Dominic Mitchell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Aaron Trevena wrote:
: 
: >I mean in college I used UNIX and SQL, but in the first year at university
: >we used rubbish like Access (later we obviously used Oracle and decent
: >databases).
: 
: Oracle?  Decent Database?  That's a whole other thread.  ;-)
: 

Note that Aaron said "Oracle and decent databases", not necessarily
implying that the former was a subset of the latter.

Mark

-- 
[] Mark 'Doc' Rogaski   |   More education is not a pancreas.
[] [EMAIL PROTECTED]|   -- Mississippi state legislator, commenting on a
[] 1994 Suzuki GS500ER  |  proposed state education plan
[] 1975 Yamaha RD250B   |


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Obsolete software

[Chris Benson]

On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 02:44:07PM +, Frank Booth wrote:
> 
> An Oracle query will perform with varying degrees of efficiency,
> recognising useful indexes etc, based entirely on the sequence of the

Bzzzt! in 8i and 9i, Oracle defaults to the Cost Based Optimizer.
Unfortunately it needs a (manual)

SQL> exec dbms_utilities.gather_schema_statistics('APPS');

(or something like that) to work reasonably well. Viz last week a
4-table query on out of date statistics -> 15min to use 500MB of temp
space then fail.  With current statistics: -> correct results in 0.08 
seconds :-}  (And if you think Oracle DBMS is high maintenance you
should see Oracle Financials ...).

> [other dbms]

I liked Solid RDBMS: fast, modern, standards compliant, cross-platform
(with data compatible between plaforms) and (after installation)
zero-administration.  (Except to add new storage to it's ~10-line .ini
format config file).  They originally did cheap retail sales over
the internet but have moved into embedded market and OEM deals ...

-- 
Chris Benson

Re: Obsolete software

[hipps]

Pulled from Frank Booth's mail (Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 02:44:07PM +):
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:31:29PM +, Simon wrote:
> > On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 10:02, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> > > Aaron Trevena wrote:
> > > > I mean in college I used UNIX and SQL, but in the first year at university
> > > > we used rubbish like Access (later we obviously used Oracle and decent
> > > > databases).
> > > 
> > > Oracle?  Decent Database?  That's a whole other thread.  ;-)
> > 
> > Compared to Ingress which almost put me off databases for life when in
> > uni? :)
> 
> Which has a far more powerful optimizer than Oracle or Sybase and is the
> origins of Postgres, which can use Perl for it's stored procedures IIRC.
> 
> An Oracle query will perform with varying degrees of efficiency,
> recognising useful indexes etc, based entirely on the sequence of the
> query, not good. 

This has not necessarily been the case since the cost-based optimizer was
introduced with Oracle7; this bases its execution plan on (previously
derived) analyses of the structures involved.
-- 
Alex Hooper

Re: Obsolete software

[Frank Booth]

On Fri, Mar 14, 2003 at 01:31:29PM +, Simon wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 10:02, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> > Aaron Trevena wrote:
> > > I mean in college I used UNIX and SQL, but in the first year at university
> > > we used rubbish like Access (later we obviously used Oracle and decent
> > > databases).
> > 
> > Oracle?  Decent Database?  That's a whole other thread.  ;-)
> 
> Compared to Ingress which almost put me off databases for life when in
> uni? :)

Which has a far more powerful optimizer than Oracle or Sybase and is the
origins of Postgres, which can use Perl for it's stored procedures IIRC.

An Oracle query will perform with varying degrees of efficiency,
recognising useful indexes etc, based entirely on the sequence of the
query, not good. Ingres queries can be phrased in numerous ways and the
parse still finds the best way.

In Sybase you need to generate temporary tables for complicated queries
and recompile all the stored procedures when you rebuild tables.

They all have their quirks, but at Uni, you're not supposed to pick up
much more than the concept of Relational Database, some SQL and DML and
enough Normalisation to make a fool of yourself as you critique a
database that's demormalised.


--
Frank

Re: Obsolete software

[Simon Dick]

On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 10:02, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> Aaron Trevena wrote:
> > I mean in college I used UNIX and SQL, but in the first year at university
> > we used rubbish like Access (later we obviously used Oracle and decent
> > databases).
> 
> Oracle?  Decent Database?  That's a whole other thread.  ;-)

Compared to Ingress which almost put me off databases for life when in
uni? :)

-- 
Simon Dick  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Obsolete software

[Dominic Mitchell]

Aaron Trevena wrote:
University Chancellors and even heads of computing schools in universities
are often very far removed from the industry and follow a mix of 30 year
old technology that huge dinosaur corporations expect everybody to know
but are obselete (like x.500, kermit, etc) or
obselete-before-it-hits-the-shelves vapourware from microsoft.
Ummm, kermit is still actively maintained.  It's certainly not obsolete



I mean in college I used UNIX and SQL, but in the first year at university
we used rubbish like Access (later we obviously used Oracle and decent
databases).
Oracle?  Decent Database?  That's a whole other thread.  ;-)

-Dom