Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Dirk Koopman]

Aaron Crane wrote:

Abigail writes:

Ah, yes, the French. They have T-shirts saying "Shut the fuck up and
build some train tracks".

Not in .nl. We just talk for years. Then change the plans because

[snip tale of woe]

Unlike the UK rail network, where the default position seems to be to
avoid building new lines entirely, and to repair the existing ones
only when spurred to by horrific accidents.  Instead, money we *could*
use for such things is spent on things like shareholder profits, and
repainting rolling stock every few years when the franchises rotate
owners.

Still beats flying, though.



Old chinese aviator's saying: Time to spare? Go by air!

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Dirk Koopman]

Abigail wrote:

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:26:23PM +, Nicholas Clark wrote:

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:39:07AM +0100, Abigail wrote:

Over here, the goverment only wants to best and newest. So everything 
is delayed and over budget. However, the tracks have been ready for quite

a while. Even the signalling is installed. The newest and greatest signalling.
Decised upon late in the project ("Oh, there's a *new* standard! Shiny!
We got to have it!"). But it got there. Except they never bother to tell
the train manufacturer they switched signalling systems.

So we now have shiny new tracks. With a top notch signalling system.
And no trains that can work with it.

Whereas the Channel Tunnel Rail Link* is a TGV line.
It's the French system. Known to work. (A most pragmatic and diplomatically
expedient solution)


Ah, yes, the French. They have T-shirts saying "Shut the fuck up and build
some train tracks".
 
Not in .nl. We just talk for years. Then change the plans because everyone
wants the line to happen, but in someone elses backyard. 


Yes, but be honest, talking *is* what we do best, followed closely by 
complaining about the fact that nothing ever gets done and, BTW, we 
don't want that here.


Let's discuss it a bit more and see if we can find a way through :-)

Groetjes

Dirk-Jan

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Cantrell]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 02:14:39PM +, Aaron Crane wrote:

> Unlike the UK rail network, where the default position seems to be to
> avoid building new lines entirely, and to repair the existing ones
> only when spurred to by horrific accidents.  Instead, money we *could*
> use for such things is spent on things like shareholder profits, and
> repainting rolling stock every few years when the franchises rotate
> owners.
> 
> Still beats flying, though.

You forgot to mention the government attempting to prevent the
ECONOCLASM by giving money to car companies instead of spending the
money on useful infrastructure which will benefit everyone, such as a
TGV line from St Pancras to Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, and
Scotlandshire.

-- 
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

  The test of the goodness of a thing is its fitness for use.  If it
  fails on this first test, no amount of ornamentation or finish will
  make it any better, it will only make it more expensive and foolish.
 -- Frank Pick, lecture to the Design and Industries Assoc, 1916

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Aaron Crane]

Abigail writes:
> Ah, yes, the French. They have T-shirts saying "Shut the fuck up and
> build some train tracks".
> 
> Not in .nl. We just talk for years. Then change the plans because
[snip tale of woe]

Unlike the UK rail network, where the default position seems to be to
avoid building new lines entirely, and to repair the existing ones
only when spurred to by horrific accidents.  Instead, money we *could*
use for such things is spent on things like shareholder profits, and
repainting rolling stock every few years when the franchises rotate
owners.

Still beats flying, though.

-- 
Aaron Crane ** http://aaroncrane.co.uk/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Abigail]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 02:36:44PM +0100, Robin Berjon wrote:
> On Jan 30, 2009, at 14:26 , Nicholas Clark wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:39:07AM +0100, Abigail wrote:
>>> Over here, the goverment only wants to best and newest. So everything
>>> is delayed and over budget. However, the tracks have been ready for  
>>> quite
>>> a while. Even the signalling is installed. The newest and greatest  
>>> signalling.
>>> Decised upon late in the project ("Oh, there's a *new* standard!  
>>> Shiny!
>>> We got to have it!"). But it got there. Except they never bother to  
>>> tell
>>> the train manufacturer they switched signalling systems.
>>>
>>> So we now have shiny new tracks. With a top notch signalling system.
>>> And no trains that can work with it.
>>
>> Whereas the Channel Tunnel Rail Link* is a TGV line.
>> It's the French system. Known to work. (A most pragmatic and  
>> diplomatically
>> expedient solution)
>
> The Brussels-Amsterdam line is also a TGV line, it's supposed to be the 
> continuation of the Paris-Brussels line (1h25). Except they decided to 
> upgrade it...


It's a TGV line in the sense TGV trains run over the tracks. But it's
basically tracks build in the late 19/early 20 century (except the 
part Leiden-Schiphol-Amsterdam which dates from the 1970s) that carry
regular trains as well. The TGV trains (Thalys) are restricted to the
same speed normal trains are limited to (120/140 km).



Abigail

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Abigail]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 01:26:23PM +, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:39:07AM +0100, Abigail wrote:
> 
> > Over here, the goverment only wants to best and newest. So everything 
> > is delayed and over budget. However, the tracks have been ready for quite
> > a while. Even the signalling is installed. The newest and greatest 
> > signalling.
> > Decised upon late in the project ("Oh, there's a *new* standard! Shiny!
> > We got to have it!"). But it got there. Except they never bother to tell
> > the train manufacturer they switched signalling systems.
> > 
> > So we now have shiny new tracks. With a top notch signalling system.
> > And no trains that can work with it.
> 
> Whereas the Channel Tunnel Rail Link* is a TGV line.
> It's the French system. Known to work. (A most pragmatic and diplomatically
> expedient solution)

Ah, yes, the French. They have T-shirts saying "Shut the fuck up and build
some train tracks".
 
Not in .nl. We just talk for years. Then change the plans because everyone
wants the line to happen, but in someone elses backyard. Then we decide
that since the tracks are going through some polders with soil poor enough
grass is the most economic crop, we have to protect the landscape and   
we'll need a tunnel to make the greenies happy [*]. The Hague is unhappy
the high speed line isn't detoured to stop there as well, so we argue
for a couple of years whether the train shall follow a straight route   
Rotterdam-Schiphol Airport-Amsterdam, or whether we need sharp corners
to make a stop in The Hague as well. Etc, etc.
 
 
[*]  I live near the area where the high speed line goes through the
 tunnel. It isn't worth protecting from a train track. For almost
 the entire route, you're in hearing and seeing distance of at
 least one expressway, and you can see the skyline of at least two
 of the cities of The Hague, Zoetermeer or Leiden. Furthermore,
 large parts of the area have been selected as areas houses and
 industry can be build.
 


Abigail

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Abigail]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 02:00:54PM +0100, Robin Berjon wrote:
> On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:05 , Abigail wrote:
>>> How long will the journey be once they've finished it ?
>>
>> Eventually, when the trains run at full speed over the entire leg,
>> about 2.5 hours. But I think that initially, if the first trains
>> start running over the high speed line, it'll be around 3h20m.
>
> Is there a vague ETA on those? when I first interviewed with Joost (to  
> work some of the time in Leiden while still residing in Paris) they told 
> me that it was expected Real Soon Now. That must have been in 2006.


Ah, 2006. I think they hadn't figured out then yet the locomotive
maker didn't know about the new signalling system. [*]

I think the current ETA is "Real Soon Now". Of course, in the first
phase, they're just going to *use* the tracks. At 160km/hours. The
300km/hours will be later.

Still, I expect the trains will be driving there before Christmas.
Probably a sooner Christmas the one of perl6.


[*] Hey, you think they wouldn't repeat such a mistake, would you?
Wrong. Recently, they opened an extension of the 'Betuwelijn'
(the 'Betuwelijn' is a dedicated high tech freigth connection
between Rotterdam and Netherlands/Germany border). The extension
(westwards) was supposed to solve a large bottleneck in the 
Rotterdam harbour system.

Except that the signalling system (different from the high speed
line, IIRC) is a system no locomotive was equipped for. So trains
now bypass the bottleneck at a crawling speed



Abigail

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Robin Berjon]

On Jan 30, 2009, at 14:26 , Nicholas Clark wrote:

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:39:07AM +0100, Abigail wrote:

Over here, the goverment only wants to best and newest. So everything
is delayed and over budget. However, the tracks have been ready for  
quite
a while. Even the signalling is installed. The newest and greatest  
signalling.
Decised upon late in the project ("Oh, there's a *new* standard!  
Shiny!
We got to have it!"). But it got there. Except they never bother to  
tell

the train manufacturer they switched signalling systems.

So we now have shiny new tracks. With a top notch signalling system.
And no trains that can work with it.


Whereas the Channel Tunnel Rail Link* is a TGV line.
It's the French system. Known to work. (A most pragmatic and  
diplomatically

expedient solution)


The Brussels-Amsterdam line is also a TGV line, it's supposed to be  
the continuation of the Paris-Brussels line (1h25). Except they  
decided to upgrade it...


--
Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/
Feel like hiring me? Go to http://robineko.com/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Nicholas Clark]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:39:07AM +0100, Abigail wrote:

> Over here, the goverment only wants to best and newest. So everything 
> is delayed and over budget. However, the tracks have been ready for quite
> a while. Even the signalling is installed. The newest and greatest signalling.
> Decised upon late in the project ("Oh, there's a *new* standard! Shiny!
> We got to have it!"). But it got there. Except they never bother to tell
> the train manufacturer they switched signalling systems.
> 
> So we now have shiny new tracks. With a top notch signalling system.
> And no trains that can work with it.

Whereas the Channel Tunnel Rail Link* is a TGV line.
It's the French system. Known to work. (A most pragmatic and diplomatically
expedient solution)

Nicholas Clark

*  since re-branded with some vain hope that there might be some other high
   speed line built somewhere in the UK.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Robin Berjon]

On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:05 , Abigail wrote:

How long will the journey be once they've finished it ?


Eventually, when the trains run at full speed over the entire leg,
about 2.5 hours. But I think that initially, if the first trains
start running over the high speed line, it'll be around 3h20m.


Is there a vague ETA on those? when I first interviewed with Joost (to  
work some of the time in Leiden while still residing in Paris) they  
told me that it was expected Real Soon Now. That must have been in 2006.


--
Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/
Feel like hiring me? Go to http://robineko.com/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Abigail]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:53:00AM +, Simon Wilcox wrote:
> Abigail wrote:
>> OTOH, goverment can ever screw up if they have too much money for
>> signalling. There's going to be a high speed train line between Amsterdam
>> in Brussels, taking the Netherlands out of the 19th century.
>
> It's not that bad a journey and even as it stands now it's *way* better  
> than flying :-)

It's about 4 hours currently.

> How long will the journey be once they've finished it ?


Eventually, when the trains run at full speed over the entire leg,
about 2.5 hours. But I think that initially, if the first trains
start running over the high speed line, it'll be around 3h20m.



Abigail

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Simon Wilcox]

Abigail wrote:

OTOH, goverment can ever screw up if they have too much money for
signalling. There's going to be a high speed train line between Amsterdam
in Brussels, taking the Netherlands out of the 19th century.


It's not that bad a journey and even as it stands now it's *way* better 
than flying :-)


How long will the journey be once they've finished it ?

S.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Abigail]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 03:31:56PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 02:28:15PM +, Joel Bernstein wrote:
> >>From LU's website
> >There are many reasons why signals fail.
> 
> In the case of the eastern end of the Jubilee Line, because the
> constructors were told to take their budget for signalling and spend it
> on getting the line open in time to carry the millions of people who
> were going to visit the Millennium Dome. (The powers that be having
> wisely decided that allowing people to get there by car, coach, bus or
> boat would be Evil.)
> 
> Which is why the signalling was done on the Very Cheap, and still breaks
> down frequently.


OTOH, goverment can ever screw up if they have too much money for
signalling. There's going to be a high speed train line between Amsterdam
in Brussels, taking the Netherlands out of the 19th century.

Over here, the goverment only wants to best and newest. So everything 
is delayed and over budget. However, the tracks have been ready for quite
a while. Even the signalling is installed. The newest and greatest signalling.
Decised upon late in the project ("Oh, there's a *new* standard! Shiny!
We got to have it!"). But it got there. Except they never bother to tell
the train manufacturer they switched signalling systems.

So we now have shiny new tracks. With a top notch signalling system.
And no trains that can work with it.


Abigail

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Roger Burton West]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 02:28:15PM +, Joel Bernstein wrote:
>>From LU's website
>There are many reasons why signals fail.

In the case of the eastern end of the Jubilee Line, because the
constructors were told to take their budget for signalling and spend it
on getting the line open in time to carry the millions of people who
were going to visit the Millennium Dome. (The powers that be having
wisely decided that allowing people to get there by car, coach, bus or
boat would be Evil.)

Which is why the signalling was done on the Very Cheap, and still breaks
down frequently.

R

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Corlett]

On 29 Jan 2009, at 14:13, James Laver wrote:
[...]

Are signal failures still "driver ignored signal" or is the signal
quality on the district line actually that appalling (athough given
that at Earl's Court, it doesn't know there's a train coming until
it's sat at the platform, this wouldn't entirely surprise me) ?


The signalling on the District Line really *is* that bad. That it has  
to share tracks with the Circle, Hammersmith and City, and  
Metropolitan Lines just adds to the amusement.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Jonathan Stowe]

2009/1/29 Joel Bernstein :
> cases of rodents chewing through
> cables, turning signals to red!

And I always get the impression that there are more rodents on the
district and circle lines whenever I'm on there :-)

/J\
-- 
http://rabidgravy.com/ - Music
http://gellyfish.co.uk/ - Everything else

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Joel Bernstein]

2009/1/29 James Laver :
> Are signal failures still "driver ignored signal" or is the signal
> quality on the district line actually that appalling

>From LU's website

There are many reasons why signals fail. However, in many cases, the
signalling system itself is working normally, but the equipment has
detected a problem with the track. Because signals are designed to
'fail safe' whenever a fault occurs, signals turn to red and trains
stop running.

As the Tube's signalling system uses small electrical currents in the
track to detect the movement of passing trains, signal failures
sometimes happen when there is a short circuit between the running
rails. These short-circuits may occur after heavy rainfall, when
puddles of water build-up on the track - particularly on our open air
sections of line. Also, with our high frequency of service, the
accumulation of iron filings (from the daily wear and tear of trains)
across insulated joints between sections of track may also cause
problems. There have even been cases of rodents chewing through
cables, turning signals to red!

So there you go.

/joel

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[James Laver]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Peter Corlett  wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2009, at 10:00, Adrian Lai wrote:
> [...]
>>
>> For some reason, this reminds me of:
>> http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~craigm/challenge.shtml
>
> There's also the one where you get off a City-bound service at Fulham
> Broadway and run the two miles to Sloane Square and catch it again.
>
> Presumably one isn't to rely on the fact that at 8am, the train will stop
> dead just outside of West Brompton and spend the next 20 minutes crawling to
> Earl's Court before being rerouted to High Street Kensington without
> announcement.

Or as this morning, sit at Fulham Broadway for 15 minutes, crawl to
the next tunnel, sit there for ten minutes, crawl to West Brompton,
stop for a couple of minutes, crawl to the next tunnel
, sit there for a couple of minutes and crawl to Earls court. Then
there was the astonishingly slow city-bound journey, though that only
stopped a couple of times, despite averaging maybe 8mph.

Are signal failures still "driver ignored signal" or is the signal
quality on the district line actually that appalling (athough given
that at Earl's Court, it doesn't know there's a train coming until
it's sat at the platform, this wouldn't entirely surprise me) ?

--James

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Corlett]

On 29 Jan 2009, at 10:00, Adrian Lai wrote:
[...]

For some reason, this reminds me of:
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~craigm/challenge.shtml


There's also the one where you get off a City-bound service at Fulham  
Broadway and run the two miles to Sloane Square and catch it again.


Presumably one isn't to rely on the fact that at 8am, the train will  
stop dead just outside of West Brompton and spend the next 20 minutes  
crawling to Earl's Court before being rerouted to High Street  
Kensington without announcement.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Adrian Lai]

2009/1/5 David Cantrell :
> Get a bike.
>
> And you know the Circle line's bad when a fat bastard like *me* says
> that.

For some reason, this reminds me of:
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~craigm/challenge.shtml

Although yes, that's Glasgow. Zone 50 million.

Adrian.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Simon Cozens]

Chris Jack wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:30 AM, David Dorward  wrote:
>> No, its a, um, er, Django shop.
>  
> You wouldn't be a coffin-dragging gunslinger by any chance? 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060315/

I prefer the Japanese remake: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0906665/

-- 
"I think i'll take my girlfriend to vegas for a win'98 burn/upgrade"
-- Megahal (trained on asr), 1998-11-06

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Haworth]

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:39:47 +, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> And don't forget fixed gear :-) http://paulm.com/cycling/fixed_gear.html

You don't a gear at all if you only have one wheel. I have been having
trouble getting up the big hill on my way home from work since I put
shorter cranks on my unicycle, though.

-- 
Peter Haworth   p...@edison.ioppublishing.com
"Perl doesn't hold your hand, but it also doesn't hold you back."
-- Eric Wilhelm

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 10:08:41PM +, Paul Makepeace wrote:

> It does however make an excellent nightclub,
> http://circlelineparty.org.uk/archives/003023.html

The only thing that would make an excellent nightclub is
counter-rotating swastikas just inside the door to chop up anyone going
to the damned things.  Yes, it's unfortunate, one or two decent people
might get culled as well, but that's a price worth paying to rid the
world of Club Vermin.

-- 
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

Deck of Cards: $1.29.
"101 Solitaire Variations" book: $6.59.
Cheap replacement for the one thing Windows is good at: priceless
-- Shane Lazarus

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Roger Burton West]

On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 03:17:02PM +, Peter Corlett wrote:

>Cycle lanes are occasionally actively dangerous, so I tend to ignore  
>them unless there is an obvious benefit of using a particular one.  

Cycle lanes are _usually_ actively dangerous, so says pretty much all
the research. (Unless they're as wide as a normal traffic lane, and they
never are.) It's simply safer to cycle as a vehicle, on the road with
other traffic (most crucially, _where the other drivers expect a vehicle
to be_).

R

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Corlett]

On 6 Jan 2009, at 10:06, Jasper wrote:
[...]

I meant the ones who, in their 50m long bendy buses, drive past you
and then cut right over, forcing you a) onto the pavement, and b) to
catch up and get onto the bus threatening to drag them off physically
and beat them to a pulp.


If the driver is being sufficiently a bastard, pop round the back of  
his bus and lift the engine hatch an inch or pull the fireman's  
switch. This will stop them driving off again until the driver has  
reset it. Obviously only save this for those who *really* deserve it.



I agree with all the overtaking talk, but with cycle 'lanes' appearing
and disappearing like the Tardis at take-off, it's not sensible to
start weaving all over the road.


Cycle lanes are occasionally actively dangerous, so I tend to ignore  
them unless there is an obvious benefit of using a particular one.  
Cyclists are pretty much entitled to use any road that it is sane to  
cycle on unless a specific exclusion has been posted.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Robert Shiels]

David Cantrell wrote:

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:56:02PM +, Jasper wrote:


And please assemble your mechano *carefully*!  I've seen two foldy
things spontaneously fold themselves, both times mere feet in front of
rather large vehicles.

The Brompton has a rather clever feature in that it doesn't actually 
have any firm clasp in the middle keeping it rigid. So if you hit the 
front brake hard at speed, the whole bike _will_ fold in half 
spontaneously. I think it's to help with the suspension, and of course 
it makes it very fast to fold up.


There is a drain just outside Waterloo station which has been installed 
incorrectly, so that a Brompton's front wheel can fit right into the 
gaps. You only make the mistake of riding on it once though.


/R

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Jasper]

2009/1/5 David Cantrell :
> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:56:02PM +, Jasper wrote:
>
>> Cycling in London isn't bad, as long as you don't do anything stupid,
>> like riding up the inside of a large lorry where the driver can't see
>> you. You do get the odd shit of a bus driver, too.
>
> What, like the ones that actually want to get to bus stops?  Cyclists
> can avoid this problem by overtaking on the *right* and at other times
> riding in the road with all the other traffic instead of in the gutter,
> if you can keep up.

I meant the ones who, in their 50m long bendy buses, drive past you
and then cut right over, forcing you a) onto the pavement, and b) to
catch up and get onto the bus threatening to drag them off physically
and beat them to a pulp.

I agree with all the overtaking talk, but with cycle 'lanes' appearing
and disappearing like the Tardis at take-off, it's not sensible to
start weaving all over the road.

> And please assemble your mechano *carefully*!  I've seen two foldy
> things spontaneously fold themselves, both times mere feet in front of
> rather large vehicles.

I had a chain snap going away from the lights on the Brompton, ended
up having a nice lie down in front of all the traffic. Ouch. I blame
myself and bad maintenance, though, rather than the kit.

2009/1/5 Kieren Diment :
>
> Typical programmers come in two distinct groups - large, or wiry.  The
> muscle density on the wiry ones is actually quite high ;)
>

And then there's Makepeace.

-- 
Jasper

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Dorward]

Avleen Vig wrote:

What a strange coincedence. I start at a Django shop on Monday, also!

Yours isn't up around Soho is it?


No; Notting Hill Gate. If it was around Soho I would be walking instead 
of Tubing :)


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Philip Newton]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 17:59, Mark Overmeer  wrote:
> My first Brompton lasted over six years of heavy duty (although
> the cycling conditions in Holland are a bit better than in the UK).
> No serious troubles, no accidents. The wheelbase (the distance between the
> front and back axes, needed for stability) is much better (longer) with
> other folding bikes.

ITYM "is much better *than* with other folding bikes"?

(Honest question; either interpretation is plausible to me.)

Cheers,
-- 
Philip Newton 

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Avleen Vig]

On Jan 5, 2009, at 9:30, David Dorward  wrote:


Nicholas Clark wrote:

So we will all have to ask you what it's like...

Is it a company on this list?   http://london.pm.org/advocacy/


No, its a, um, er, Django shop.


What a strange coincedence. I start at a Django shop on Monday, also!

Yours isn't up around Soho is it? 

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Dave Hodgkinson]

On 5 Jan 2009, at 22:08, Paul Makepeace wrote:

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:54 PM, James Duncan > wrote:

On 5-Jan-09, at 4:42 PM, Chisel Wright wrote:


On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:59:24PM +, David Cantrell wrote:


And you know the Circle line's bad when a fat bastard like *me*  
says

that.


The Circle Line was one of my reasons for getting a foldy.


The Circle Line was one of my reasons for leaving London ;-)


It does however make an excellent nightclub,
http://circlelineparty.org.uk/archives/003023.html


Not since the middle of last year.

--
Dave HodgkinsonMSN: daveh...@hotmail.com
Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com  UK: +44 7768 490620
Blog: http://davehodg.blogspot.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:54 PM, James Duncan  wrote:
> On 5-Jan-09, at 4:42 PM, Chisel Wright wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:59:24PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
>>>
>>> And you know the Circle line's bad when a fat bastard like *me* says
>>> that.
>>
>> The Circle Line was one of my reasons for getting a foldy.
>
> The Circle Line was one of my reasons for leaving London ;-)

It does however make an excellent nightclub,
http://circlelineparty.org.uk/archives/003023.html

P

>
> Regards,
> James.
>

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[James Duncan]

On 5-Jan-09, at 4:42 PM, Chisel Wright wrote:


On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:59:24PM +, David Cantrell wrote:

And you know the Circle line's bad when a fat bastard like *me* says
that.


The Circle Line was one of my reasons for getting a foldy.


The Circle Line was one of my reasons for leaving London ;-)

Regards,
James.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Chisel Wright]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:59:24PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> And you know the Circle line's bad when a fat bastard like *me* says
> that.

The Circle Line was one of my reasons for getting a foldy.

-- 
Chisel Wright
e: chi...@herlpacker.co.uk
w: http://www.herlpacker.co.uk/

  Why is the rum gone?

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Dominic Thoreau]

2009/1/5 Kieren Diment :
>
> Typical programmers come in two distinct groups - large, or wiry.  The
> muscle density on the wiry ones is actually quite high ;)
>
Bah I say - not everything's black and white like that.

And I say that as a possibly ambidextrous dev (who's trying to avoid
learning Javascript for work purposes) who was once wiry, currently
transiting towards large.

Kind of like saying most either have hair or don't.
-- 
No train here, but still:
The sign says: "Ready to Leave"
Normal service, yes?

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Dave Hodgkinson]

On 5 Jan 2009, at 20:59, David Cantrell wrote:


On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:06:02PM +, David Dorward wrote:

Sue Spence wrote:

I'm just kidding of course.  Congrats.

Thanks

Work is good, and so are new experiences
I'm going to experience the Circle Line at rush hour for the first  
time.

Is that good?


Get a bike.

And you know the Circle line's bad when a fat bastard like *me* says
that.


And it's possible to run faster too:

http://london-underground.blogspot.com/2008/10/can-you-run-faster-than-tube-train.html




--
Dave HodgkinsonMSN: daveh...@hotmail.com
Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com  UK: +44 7768 490620
Blog: http://davehodg.blogspot.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:56:02PM +, Jasper wrote:

> Cycling in London isn't bad, as long as you don't do anything stupid,
> like riding up the inside of a large lorry where the driver can't see
> you. You do get the odd shit of a bus driver, too.

What, like the ones that actually want to get to bus stops?  Cyclists
can avoid this problem by overtaking on the *right* and at other times
riding in the road with all the other traffic instead of in the gutter,
if you can keep up.

And please assemble your mechano *carefully*!  I've seen two foldy
things spontaneously fold themselves, both times mere feet in front of
rather large vehicles.

-- 
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

There is no one true indentation style,
But if there were K&R would be Its Prophets.
Peace be upon Their Holy Beards.

Old memes (was Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Dorward]

Billy Abbott wrote:
> (I like cake http://flickr.com/photos/cowfish/185568346/)

The cake is a lie.


-- 
David Dorward   

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:06:02PM +, David Dorward wrote:
> Sue Spence wrote:
> >I'm just kidding of course.  Congrats. 
> Thanks
> >Work is good, and so are new experiences
> I'm going to experience the Circle Line at rush hour for the first time. 
> Is that good?

Get a bike.

And you know the Circle line's bad when a fat bastard like *me* says
that.

-- 
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

   23.5 degrees of axial tilt is the reason for the season

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[Billy Abbott]

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, David Dorward wrote:


Nicholas Clark wrote:

Your heretical brain thinks that there should be a social on the 3rd
Thursday of the month?

No, it thought that the Thursday after the first Wednesday of this month 
takes place in a week and a half's time.

Or your ultra-orthodox brain thinks that there should be a social on every
Thursday of the month? :-)


Well, that too.
[I can't think of any useful signal to add to the noise, so I'll pretend 
that

I have some by linking to this very nice picture of a very nice looking pie
  http://flickr.com/photos/cowfish/3137913195/


Needs more desert.

http://flickr.com/photos/dorward/2425869445/


We had cake and crumble (not pictured):

http://flickr.com/photos/mondoagogo/3170119475/

(I like cake http://flickr.com/photos/cowfish/185568346/)

--billy

--
http://billyabbott.co.uk
A bored sysadmin is a dangerous beast...

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Kieren Diment]

On 06/01/2009, at 1:20 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:


On 5 Jan 2009, at 14:13, Paul Makepeace wrote:
[...]
Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to  
ignore any

commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.


Although if one is built like a typical programmer note that Notting  
Hill is actually on top of a hill, and it's not just a pretty place  
name.




Typical programmers come in two distinct groups - large, or wiry.  The  
muscle density on the wiry ones is actually quite high ;)

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[daniel bosold]

Paul Makepeace  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Simon Wilcox  wrote:
> > Robert Shiels wrote:
> >>
> >> I would love to have a go on a Strida so that I could give an opinion -
> >
> > I had a go on Paul's a few years ago and even though I'm only a couple of
> > inches taller than he is (I'm 6' 4") it made a huge amount of difference,
> > from really useful to very unstable with my knees knocking on the handlebars
> > when cornering.
> 
> I actually learnt something slightly counter-intuitive when I got my
> second one and was having the seat height adjusted which is that a
> lower seat is a bit better for taller people (on this bike) so you get
> knee-room. The cost of course is that your legs ride in a more folded
> position--may or may not be a problem.
> 

Guys,

I'm 6' 6" and the Strida, while a nice bike, is a bit small for taller
cyclists. I sell folding bikes in a store in Groningen and have found
the Brompton and Ori best fits for taller cyclists and both are well
suited to longer distance cycling as well as on and off trains and such.

Gr,

daniël

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Mark Overmeer]

* Struan Donald (str...@exo.org.uk) [090105 16:39]:
> * at 05/01 14:39 + Paul Makepeace said:
> > If you're going multi-modal folding bikes are the only way to go, IMO.
> > (I've heard awful things about Dahon though, btw.)
> > 
> > FWIW: I had a terrible experience with Bikefix, to the point of having
> > me give them another, rhyming name...
> 
> The advice I had from my brother who works in a bike shop was to buy
> a Brompton. He'd seen too many of the other makes they stocked come
> back broken.

My first Brompton lasted over six years of heavy duty (although
the cycling conditions in Holland are a bit better than in the UK).
No serious troubles, no accidents. The wheelbase (the distance between the
front and back axes, needed for stability) is much better (longer) with
other folding bikes.  But Bromptons are also at least twice as expensive.

I recently baught a new one.  Pick the cheapest version without carrier,
and dynamo: use backpack and led-lights.  I have the six-gear version
with a larger front sprocket(?): fast enough to overtake nearly all
other cyclists.  The fastest way to travel (at least in Holland): train
and folding bike.
-- 
Regards,
   MarkOv


   Mark Overmeer MScMARKOV Solutions
   m...@overmeer.net  soluti...@overmeer.net
http://Mark.Overmeer.net   http://solutions.overmeer.net

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Simon Wilcox  wrote:
> Robert Shiels wrote:
>>
>> I would love to have a go on a Strida so that I could give an opinion -
>
> I had a go on Paul's a few years ago and even though I'm only a couple of
> inches taller than he is (I'm 6' 4") it made a huge amount of difference,
> from really useful to very unstable with my knees knocking on the handlebars
> when cornering.

I actually learnt something slightly counter-intuitive when I got my
second one and was having the seat height adjusted which is that a
lower seat is a bit better for taller people (on this bike) so you get
knee-room. The cost of course is that your legs ride in a more folded
position--may or may not be a problem.

The guy that designed the Strida is 6'1". That said, you might just be too big!

Next time I'm in London at a social I'll bring it along for anyone
else <6'4" ;-)

Paul, only 6'

PS Brompton's are great; I didn't meant to suggest otherwise--my
personal take is that if you are regularly riding 'proper' distances
like >3mi and/or carrying luggage you probably want a Brompton. The
Strida's use case is IMO more towards getting to/from the
Tube/train/bus stop, buzzing around short-ish distances, but _can_ do
longer distances if you need it.

> Which is a shame as I loved it in all other respects, nice and stable in a
> straight line, folds up really easily just couldn't go round corners whilst
> pedalling.
>
> YMMV etc etc.
>
> S.
>

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Struan Donald]

* at 05/01 14:39 + Paul Makepeace said:
> If you're going multi-modal folding bikes are the only way to go, IMO.
> (I've heard awful things about Dahon though, btw.)
> 
> FWIW: I had a terrible experience with Bikefix, to the point of having
> me give them another, rhyming name...

The advice I had from my brother who works in a bike shop was to buy
a Brompton. He'd seen too many of the other makes they stocked come
back broken.

s

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Chris Jack]

> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:30 AM, David Dorward  wrote:
> No, its a, um, er, Django shop.
 
You wouldn't be a coffin-dragging gunslinger by any chance? 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060315/
 
 
_
Are you a PC?  Upload your PC story and show the world 
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/122465942/direct/01/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Dave Hodgkinson]

On 5 Jan 2009, at 15:36, Jasper wrote:

2009/1/5 Tony Kennick <0995a06aaeaf6b70e79c3aafd6719...@half.pint.org.uk 
>:

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:56:02PM +,
the following was promulgated by Jasper:

Cycling in London isn't bad, as long as you don't do anything  
stupid,
like riding up the inside of a large lorry where the driver can't  
see

you. You do get the odd shit of a bus driver, too.


I think everyone should start thinking about road use in terms more  
similar to
the maritime 'rules of the road'[1]. As all the sympathies I build  
up for
cyclists as a driver get blown away about once every six months  
when as

a pedestrian I have to take emergency action to not be flattened by a
nutter.


Agreed. I'm always tempted to clothesline idiots blasting through
pedestrian crossings at speed.



Saw a lovely autolart at Oxford Circus before Christmas. Pedestrians
milling across the road against the lights, eejit cyclist piles through,
catches a woman's heel. His bike somersaulted and skidded down the
but he just ended up standing in the road bikeless. And he *knew*
he'd have been lynched if he'd got arsey.

--
Dave HodgkinsonMSN: daveh...@hotmail.com
Site: http://www.davehodgkinson.com  UK: +44 7768 490620
Blog: http://davehodg.blogspot.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davehodg

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Simon Wilcox]

Robert Shiels wrote:
I would love to have a go on a Strida so that I could give an opinion - 


I had a go on Paul's a few years ago and even though I'm only a couple 
of inches taller than he is (I'm 6' 4") it made a huge amount of 
difference, from really useful to very unstable with my knees knocking 
on the handlebars when cornering.


Which is a shame as I loved it in all other respects, nice and stable in 
a straight line, folds up really easily just couldn't go round corners 
whilst pedalling.


YMMV etc etc.

S.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Piers Cawley]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Jasper  wrote:
> 2009/1/5 Paul Makepeace :
>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Roger Burton West  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:13:48PM +, Paul Makepeace wrote:
>>>
>>> >Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to ignore 
>>> >any
>>> >commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.
>>>
>>> Seconded. Advice from a relatively new cyclist on request, or distilled
>>> at http://firedrake.org/roger/cycling/ .
>>
>> Cool. As a two-time Strida owner I can assure you they are most
>> certainly _not_ "gimmick" bikes, esp. considering they've won a whole
>> bunch of folding competitions beating Bromptons for folding speed
>> (<2s), maneuvrability, and something else I forget. I rode from West
>> Hampstead to Mayfair (i.e. non-trivial distance) the other night, and
>> can take it on buses, tubes, and trains with never any hassle, esp
>> since they weigh <10kg. The newer Strida 5 is a nice improvement over
>> its already-decent-but-slightly-sloppy previous incarnation.
>
> I used a Brompton solidly for a year, and while it was heavy, and had
> a very close-up riding position, which took a while to get used to, I
> liked it a lot. Until I made the terrible mistake of buying a
> large-ish motorcycle, and each time I get on the Brompton now I am
> utterly terrified. It feels tiny and ridiculously flimsy.
>
> Cycling in London isn't bad, as long as you don't do anything stupid,
> like riding up the inside of a large lorry where the driver can't see
> you. You do get the odd shit of a bus driver, too.

If you're feeling like remaining smart and visible on your bike, you
might consider investing in something like
http://www.dashingtweeds.co.uk/dt/tailoredoutfits/?page_id=43. Haven't
you always wanted go glow in the dark while cycling in tweeds?

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Jasper]

2009/1/5 Tony Kennick <0995a06aaeaf6b70e79c3aafd6719...@half.pint.org.uk>:
> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:56:02PM +,
> the following was promulgated by Jasper:
>
>> Cycling in London isn't bad, as long as you don't do anything stupid,
>> like riding up the inside of a large lorry where the driver can't see
>> you. You do get the odd shit of a bus driver, too.
>
> I think everyone should start thinking about road use in terms more similar to
> the maritime 'rules of the road'[1]. As all the sympathies I build up for
> cyclists as a driver get blown away about once every six months when as
> a pedestrian I have to take emergency action to not be flattened by a
> nutter.

Agreed. I'm always tempted to clothesline idiots blasting through
pedestrian crossings at speed.

-- 
Jasper

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Tony Kennick]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:56:02PM +,
the following was promulgated by Jasper:

> Cycling in London isn't bad, as long as you don't do anything stupid,
> like riding up the inside of a large lorry where the driver can't see
> you. You do get the odd shit of a bus driver, too.
 
I think everyone should start thinking about road use in terms more similar to
the maritime 'rules of the road'[1]. As all the sympathies I build up for
cyclists as a driver get blown away about once every six months when as
a pedestrian I have to take emergency action to not be flattened by a
nutter.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Regulations_for_Preventing_Collisions_at_Sea

-- 
Tony Kennick
Web: http://www.pint.org.uk/ Blog: http://blog.pint.org.uk/ 
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thegreatgonzo/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Robert Shiels]

Paul Makepeace wrote:
>
> Cool. As a two-time Strida owner I can assure you they are most
> certainly _not_ "gimmick" bikes, esp. considering they've won a whole
> bunch of folding competitions beating Bromptons for folding speed

I would love to have a go on a Strida so that I could give an opinion - 
they don't look quite sturdy enough to me. I rode 10 miles a day for 2 
years on a Brompton before it was so knackered it needed a real service, 
and heartily recommend them. They have a great resale value too - a 
friend just sold his on ebay for more than he paid for it.


/R

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Jasper]

2009/1/5 Paul Makepeace :
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Roger Burton West  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:13:48PM +, Paul Makepeace wrote:
>>
>> >Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to ignore any
>> >commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.
>>
>> Seconded. Advice from a relatively new cyclist on request, or distilled
>> at http://firedrake.org/roger/cycling/ .
>
> Cool. As a two-time Strida owner I can assure you they are most
> certainly _not_ "gimmick" bikes, esp. considering they've won a whole
> bunch of folding competitions beating Bromptons for folding speed
> (<2s), maneuvrability, and something else I forget. I rode from West
> Hampstead to Mayfair (i.e. non-trivial distance) the other night, and
> can take it on buses, tubes, and trains with never any hassle, esp
> since they weigh <10kg. The newer Strida 5 is a nice improvement over
> its already-decent-but-slightly-sloppy previous incarnation.

I used a Brompton solidly for a year, and while it was heavy, and had
a very close-up riding position, which took a while to get used to, I
liked it a lot. Until I made the terrible mistake of buying a
large-ish motorcycle, and each time I get on the Brompton now I am
utterly terrified. It feels tiny and ridiculously flimsy.

Cycling in London isn't bad, as long as you don't do anything stupid,
like riding up the inside of a large lorry where the driver can't see
you. You do get the odd shit of a bus driver, too.

Jasper

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Roger Burton West  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:13:48PM +, Paul Makepeace wrote:
>
> >Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to ignore any
> >commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.
>
> Seconded. Advice from a relatively new cyclist on request, or distilled
> at http://firedrake.org/roger/cycling/ .

Cool. As a two-time Strida owner I can assure you they are most
certainly _not_ "gimmick" bikes, esp. considering they've won a whole
bunch of folding competitions beating Bromptons for folding speed
(<2s), maneuvrability, and something else I forget. I rode from West
Hampstead to Mayfair (i.e. non-trivial distance) the other night, and
can take it on buses, tubes, and trains with never any hassle, esp
since they weigh <10kg. The newer Strida 5 is a nice improvement over
its already-decent-but-slightly-sloppy previous incarnation.

If you're going multi-modal folding bikes are the only way to go, IMO.
(I've heard awful things about Dahon though, btw.)

FWIW: I had a terrible experience with Bikefix, to the point of having
me give them another, rhyming name...

And don't forget fixed gear :-) http://paulm.com/cycling/fixed_gear.html

P

>
> Roger

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Denny]

On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 14:13 +, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to ignore any
> commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.
> 
> P, one minor accident in six years; 6,000+miles covered; god knows how much
> time saved

I was extremely surprised the first few times I rode a motorbike through
central London.  Turns out drivers here often have far better awareness
of the presence of two-wheelers, and are far more likely to helpfully
move over / provide small gaps for you to sneak through / etc, than
those in any of the other (large and small) towns I'd ridden in
previously.

That said, there are still plenty of blind / homicidal drivers out there
too, so it's still best to keep your eyes wide open and your cynicism
turned up to 11.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Dorward]

Peter Corlett wrote:
Although if one is built like a typical programmer note that Notting 
Hill is actually on top of a hill, and it's not just a pretty place name.

Eeep. :)

Also, I would assume that the journey doesn't actually start in 
Waterloo, but on an incoming South West Cattletruck service, which 
limits you to a Brompton rather than a real (motor|push)bike.

South Eastern. It's the London Bridge - Waterloo East - Charing Cross route.

--
David Dorward

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Corlett]

On 5 Jan 2009, at 14:17, Joel Bernstein wrote:
[...]

Rush hour on the deeplying tube lines is harmful to sanity.


Be tall, large, wearing lots of black, carry earplugs and a solid  
book, and not be afraid to trample over people to get a seat, then  
they're just fine.


If you think the deep-level lines are bad, try the City-bound platform  
at Fulham Broadway at 8am.


(Ahh, that's one perk of being CFT-enabled.)

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Corlett]

On 5 Jan 2009, at 14:13, Paul Makepeace wrote:
[...]
Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to  
ignore any

commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.


Although if one is built like a typical programmer note that Notting  
Hill is actually on top of a hill, and it's not just a pretty place  
name.


Also, I would assume that the journey doesn't actually start in  
Waterloo, but on an incoming South West Cattletruck service, which  
limits you to a Brompton rather than a real (motor|push)bike.

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Roger Burton West]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:13:48PM +, Paul Makepeace wrote:

>Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to ignore any
>commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.

Seconded. Advice from a relatively new cyclist on request, or distilled
at http://firedrake.org/roger/cycling/ .

Roger

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Corlett]

On 5 Jan 2009, at 13:53, David Dorward wrote:

Peter Corlett wrote:
I *strongly* suggest you look for a different route. TfL's route  
planner comes up with sensible routings once you disable busses.  
(When enabled, it seems to prefer to route people via bus where  
possible, presumably for traffic engineering or revenue  
maximisation reasons.)
The alternatives would be, IIRC, to take the N. Line to TCR then  
change to the central line, or to take the Jubilee from Waterloo and  
get to the central line from there. (Target: Notting Hill Gate).



The Central Line is by far the most reliable of the three lines that  
pass through Notting Hill Gate, running every 3-4 minutes. The Circle  
is allegedly every 8, but it's the one to break first when they're  
short on trains or drivers and a 15 minute wait is not unusual.


It really is best to assume that the Circle Line does not exist when  
planning a route, and just catch it opportunistically if you happen to  
be wanting a District or Hammersmith and City line service and a  
Circle shows up instead.


Also note that from Waterloo, you first have to cross the River to get  
to the Circle Line, which means the Northern or Jubilee anyway, so  
once you're on it you might as well stay on until you hit the Central  
Line.


I *think* that Jubilee to Bond Street and change to Central would be  
the best routing, but I'd also give the Northern to TCR a spin too.  
(Also note that you can buy chocolate-coated coffee beans in Bond  
Street station which is a good tie-breaker.)

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Joel Bernstein]

2009/1/5 David Dorward :
> The alternatives would be, IIRC, to take the N. Line to TCR then change to
> the central line, or to take the Jubilee from Waterloo and get to the
> central line from there. (Target: Notting Hill Gate).

Have you considered a bicycle? Perhaps a folding one so you can take
the tube home if the weather's horrible?

Rush hour on the deeplying tube lines is harmful to sanity.

/joel

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:53 PM, David Dorward  wrote:

> Peter Corlett wrote:
>
>> I *strongly* suggest you look for a different route. TfL's route planner
>> comes up with sensible routings once you disable busses. (When enabled, it
>> seems to prefer to route people via bus where possible, presumably for
>> traffic engineering or revenue maximisation reasons.)
>>
> The alternatives would be, IIRC, to take the N. Line to TCR then change to
> the central line, or to take the Jubilee from Waterloo and get to the
> central line from there. (Target: Notting Hill Gate).


Get a bicycle or a scooter. Do your level best in the meantime to ignore any
commentary from anyone who hasn't actually ridden in London.

P, one minor accident in six years; 6,000+miles covered; god knows how much
time saved


>
>
> --
> David Dorward
> http://dorward.me.uk/
>

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Dorward]

Peter Corlett wrote:
I *strongly* suggest you look for a different route. TfL's route 
planner comes up with sensible routings once you disable busses. (When 
enabled, it seems to prefer to route people via bus where possible, 
presumably for traffic engineering or revenue maximisation reasons.)
The alternatives would be, IIRC, to take the N. Line to TCR then change 
to the central line, or to take the Jubilee from Waterloo and get to the 
central line from there. (Target: Notting Hill Gate).


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Peter Corlett]

On 5 Jan 2009, at 13:06, David Dorward wrote:
[...]
I'm going to experience the Circle Line at rush hour for the first  
time. Is that good?


That lovely yellow circle on the Tube map looks awfully convenient to  
get around central London, but don't be tempted. What with "passenger  
incidents", broken-down trains, lack of staff, signal failures, and  
whatnot, I'd be astonished if you even get to *see* a Circle Line  
train at rush hour.


If you still persist in trying to catch one, I've got some goose  
grease and a shoe horn which will aid you in boarding. I don't need it  
now I'm CFT-enabled and don't need to go to Canary Wharf.


I *strongly* suggest you look for a different route. TfL's route  
planner comes up with sensible routings once you disable busses. (When  
enabled, it seems to prefer to route people via bus where possible,  
presumably for traffic engineering or revenue maximisation reasons.)

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[James Laver]

On 2009-01-05 13:06, "David Dorward"  wrote:

> Sue Spence wrote:
>> I'm just kidding of course.  Congrats.
> Thanks
>> Work is good, and so are new experiences
> I'm going to experience the Circle Line at rush hour for the first time.
> Is that good?

It certainly qualifies as an experience...*

Take a good book, make sure your headphones are in working order and get
ready to elbow...

--James

*Perhaps topped only by trying to catch the waterloo drain at 10 to 9 in the
morning

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Randy J. Ray]

>>> Work is good, and so are new experiences

>> I'm going to experience the Circle Line at rush hour for the first time.
>> Is that good?

> It certainly qualifies as an experience...*

Hmmm... in the sense, "Experience is what you get, when you don't get what you
want."

-- 
"""
Randy J. Ray  Sunnyvale, CA  http://www.rjray.org   rj...@blackperl.com

Silicon Valley Scale Modelers: http://www.svsm.org

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Dorward]

Sue Spence wrote:
I'm just kidding of course.  Congrats. 

Thanks

Work is good, and so are new experiences
I'm going to experience the Circle Line at rush hour for the first time. 
Is that good?


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/

Re: My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[Sue Spence]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:30 AM, David Dorward  wrote:
> Nicholas Clark wrote:
>>
>> So we will all have to ask you what it's like...
>>
>> Is it a company on this list?   http://london.pm.org/advocacy/
>>
>
> No, its a, um, er, Django shop.
>






I'm just kidding of course.  Congrats.  Work is good, and so are new
experiences.

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[Ovid]

- Original Message 

> From: Edmund von der Burg 

> Hurrah!
> 
> I'll be there.


I'll be there, too.  I've a bad habit of not checking my calendar.  I need to 
stop that, but a New Year's resolution is just made to be broken.  (This year, 
I resolve to wean myself from my dependency on oxygen.  There, broken.  Got 
that over with.  Of course, if I die within a year, I'll have kept my 
resolution.  Hmm ...)

Cheers,
Ovid
--
Buy the book - http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/
Tech blog- http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/
Twitter  - http://twitter.com/OvidPerl
Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[David Dorward]

Nicholas Clark wrote:

Your heretical brain thinks that there should be a social on the 3rd
Thursday of the month?
  
No, it thought that the Thursday after the first Wednesday of this month 
takes place in a week and a half's time.

Or your ultra-orthodox brain thinks that there should be a social on every
Thursday of the month? :-)
  

Well, that too.

[I can't think of any useful signal to add to the noise, so I'll pretend that
I have some by linking to this very nice picture of a very nice looking pie
  http://flickr.com/photos/cowfish/3137913195/
  

Needs more desert.

http://flickr.com/photos/dorward/2425869445/

--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[Nicholas Clark]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 09:16:53AM +, David Dorward wrote:
> David Dorward wrote:
> >Hmm, I think that is on the way home from the job I start on Monday. 
> >Nice choice :)
> No! My brain is not functioning! The 8th is before next Monday!

Your heretical brain thinks that there should be a social on the 3rd
Thursday of the month?

Or your ultra-orthodox brain thinks that there should be a social on every
Thursday of the month? :-)

[I can't think of any useful signal to add to the noise, so I'll pretend that
I have some by linking to this very nice picture of a very nice looking pie
that Billy took and made (respectively, but probably not in that order):

  http://flickr.com/photos/cowfish/3137913195/

It's even labeled, in case you have trouble identifying what it is.]


Nicholas Clark

My New Job (Was: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009)

[David Dorward]

Nicholas Clark wrote:

So we will all have to ask you what it's like...

Is it a company on this list?   http://london.pm.org/advocacy/
  

No, its a, um, er, Django shop.

--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[David Dorward]

David Dorward wrote:
Hmm, I think that is on the way home from the job I start on Monday. 
Nice choice :)

No! My brain is not functioning! The 8th is before next Monday!

!!

--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[Nicholas Clark]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 09:02:05AM +, David Dorward wrote:
> Edmund von der Burg wrote:
> >Where are we going then?
> >
> >I've always liked this place:
> >http://london.pm.org/meetings/locations/antelope.html
> >  
> Hmm, I think that is on the way home from the job I start on Monday. 
> Nice choice :)

So we will all have to ask you what it's like...

Is it a company on this list?   http://london.pm.org/advocacy/

Nicholas Clark

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[David Dorward]

Edmund von der Burg wrote:

Where are we going then?

I've always liked this place:
http://london.pm.org/meetings/locations/antelope.html
  
Hmm, I think that is on the way home from the job I start on Monday. 
Nice choice :)


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[Edmund von der Burg]

2009/1/4 Kake L Pugh :
> On Sun 04 Jan 2009, Edmund von der Burg  wrote:
>> Where are we going then?
>>
>> I've always liked this place:
>> http://london.pm.org/meetings/locations/antelope.html
>
> OK!  Let's go there.  Last I checked (April 2008), they've started
> charging for the function room (and were sufficiently sniffy about my
> insistence that they'd previously given it us for free that I'm not
> willing to ask them about it again), but since only a handful of
> people replied to my request for a show-of-hands as to who's coming,
> I'd already decided to experiment with not booking a room for this
> meeting.

Hurrah!

I'll be there.

Cheers,
  Edmund

Re: Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[Kake L Pugh]

On Sun 04 Jan 2009, Edmund von der Burg  wrote:
> Where are we going then?
> 
> I've always liked this place:
> http://london.pm.org/meetings/locations/antelope.html

OK!  Let's go there.  Last I checked (April 2008), they've started
charging for the function room (and were sufficiently sniffy about my
insistence that they'd previously given it us for free that I'm not
willing to ask them about it again), but since only a handful of
people replied to my request for a show-of-hands as to who's coming,
I'd already decided to experiment with not booking a room for this
meeting.

So, the Antelope, this Thursday, from 6:30pm.  I'll do a proper
announcement tomorrow.

Kake

Social Thurs 8 Jan 2009

[Edmund von der Burg]

Where are we going then?

I've always liked this place:
http://london.pm.org/meetings/locations/antelope.html

Cheers,
  Edmund.

-- 
e...@ecclestoad.co.uk - http://ecclestoad.co.uk