[luau] How to dispose of Win 2K license on new linux machin

2002-09-11 Thread W. Wayne Liauh
You are exactly right.  However, if you go to law school, one of the 
first courses you would study is that, not too long ago, the Supreme 
Court held that slavary was legal and constitutional in the U.S.


I am picking on you again, Eric.  Really didn't mean it.  :-)





[luau] Oceanic Linux Mirror

2002-09-11 Thread W. Wayne Liauh
If Oceanic is providing the bandwidth, perhaps we can try to operate on 
a grander scale?  E.g., a Mandrake Hawaii "franchise" (i.e., utilizing 
Mandrake's urpmi)?  Or even an experimental Linux thin-client for 
RoadRunner customers?




[luau] Have a drink at the Elks?

2002-09-11 Thread W. Wayne Liauh
I don't think I am allowed to disclose the membership fees in public. 
But I'll try to  give you an idea.


The Outrigger Club, which is right next door, has an initiation fee of 
$10K (a couple of years ago it charged $5K if you are under 40).  The 
initiation fee at Elks is about an order of magnitude lower.


Most other clubs also require a monthly fee and minimum consumption of 
at least a couple of hundred dollars.  That will be good enough to pay 
for the whole year at Elks.


If you have friends/clients/relatives/clients from the mainland or 
foreign countries, taking them to Elks on a late winter afternoon (to 
watch sunset) will give them the most memorable experience (especially 
if they stay in a posh hotel in Waikiki).  At least that's what I have 
been told.  Time after time.




Re: [luau] Capturing Postscript from Open Office

2002-09-11 Thread Jeff Mings
Ben, I do this all the time - I use the steps you mentioned, but I 
haven't had to set up a special printer driver.   The printer is listed 
as "generic printer", but does have postscript-associated settings in 
its properties.  After checking the Print To File box, I just select 
postscript as the file type, and save the file with a .ps extension. 
It's so easy, that I have to wonder if there's a deeper configuration 
problem with your system that is blocking your success.


Good luck,
-Jeff




Ben Beeson wrote:


Aloha,

I need to save an open office file in .ps format and I can't figure out 
how to do it.  It seems like I should be able to "print to file" using a post 
script printer driver, but I can't figure out how to do that with in Linux.  
Any ideas?


Thanks,

Ben   







[luau] Capturing Postscript from Open Office

2002-09-11 Thread Ben Beeson
Aloha,

 I need to save an open office file in .ps format and I can't figure out 
how to do it.  It seems like I should be able to "print to file" using a post 
script printer driver, but I can't figure out how to do that with in Linux.  
Any ideas?

Thanks,

Ben   


[luau] Oceanic Linux Mirror - Donations Needed

2002-09-11 Thread Warren Togami
Thanks to Doug Stanfield and Jeff Wong at Oceanic for agreeing to host a
Linux mirror at Oceanic.  When this mirror is installed, it will allow
uncapped bandwidth to Oceanic and Hawaii Roadrunner clients, which would
mean even faster and more reliable Linux downloads than Videl for these
people.

Unfortunately our upload cap to non-Oceanic networks will be fairly low,
so we will not be able to handle FTP clients from other ISP's.  This
however will alleviate a large amount of load on Videl, allowing others
to use more capacity from the University.

I plan on donating one of my personal mini-towers to be this mirror
server, but I would appreciate it if other people can donate RAM or a
large IDE hard drive.

This motherboard can have 3 sticks of 256MB ECC non-registered PC133
SDRAM.  I already have one stick.

Large IDE hard drive.  This motherboard has a Promise Ultra66 controller
which supports I think up to 120GB, though any size like 60 or 80GB
would be good.  Let me know if you want to contribute money to sponsor
part of a large hard drive, I will cover the rest.

Any other Internet providers out there willing to host a mirror?  Please
let me know and I will help you configure it.

Thanks,
Warren Togami
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread Warren Togami
On Wed, 2002-09-11 at 20:30, R. Scott Belford wrote:
> 
> I am not sure what kind of config interface the intel printserver offers, but 
> you should be able to assign it an ip address.  You should be able to 
> configure the two ports with separate queue names.  I have one in our network 
> that I believe had default queue names of lpt1 and lpt2.  

The Intel print server is supposed to be configurable through a web
based interface, but we can't seem to access that interface nor can we
ping the print server even though the diagnostic says it has an IP
address.  Zero responses on TCP/IP.

> 
> On your linuxbox you would just add the printers and set them up to print to 
> the ip address.  Printtool is very intuitive.  I have several printcap 
> entries that we use to print to jetdirects, netgear's product, and some 
> really inexpensive generic model if they would be helpful to you. We do this 
> all over the island.
> 
> You could replace the intel server with two $50 printservers that I have seen 
> and used, but I presume that the school has no money.  If the printers are 
> near your server, you could just add a second parallel port and let it be the 
> server.  If nothing else, I am sure that we have enough of a box in our LTSP 
> project collection for a dual port freesco printserver.
> 
> scott

What motherboards have two parallel ports?  I don't have any computers
with two parallel ports.  If I did have one, yes that would be a very
easy solution... though less robust than making that Intel print server
to do its job properly.




Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread R. Scott Belford
On Wednesday 11 September 2002 07:26 pm, you wrote:

> I don't think I have an easy solution to replace a dual parallel port
> print server.  In theory I wouldn't have to, since this thing is
> supposed to be configurable to use SMB protocol.  I just can't figure
> out how.

I am not sure what kind of config interface the intel printserver offers, but 
you should be able to assign it an ip address.  You should be able to 
configure the two ports with separate queue names.  I have one in our network 
that I believe had default queue names of lpt1 and lpt2.  

On your linuxbox you would just add the printers and set them up to print to 
the ip address.  Printtool is very intuitive.  I have several printcap 
entries that we use to print to jetdirects, netgear's product, and some 
really inexpensive generic model if they would be helpful to you. We do this 
all over the island.

You could replace the intel server with two $50 printservers that I have seen 
and used, but I presume that the school has no money.  If the printers are 
near your server, you could just add a second parallel port and let it be the 
server.  If nothing else, I am sure that we have enough of a box in our LTSP 
project collection for a dual port freesco printserver.

scott


Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread Warren Togami
On Wed, 2002-09-11 at 19:19, linuxdan wrote:
> Warren
>  Isnt there another a HP Opensource conference at the convention
> center coming up?  I know HP rep mentioned that they were going to set
> something up.

I have heard nothing about this.  It is an Open Source conference?

>  Also meeting with IBM on the 17th and HP on the 18th.  Im
> hoping to get your views on this. Maybe you may have time to attend?
> 
> Dan

I will try to make time.

Reminder: Please remember trim quotes on replies.  It makes the list
much easier to read for everyone.



Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread Warren Togami
On Wed, 2002-09-11 at 13:59, MonMotha wrote:
[SNIP]
> > Samba for their print queue (while adding file services.)  Main problem
> > that I see in this is that we seem to be completely unable to reach the
> > Intel NetExpress Pro/100 control panel through any TCP/IP means.  The
> > diagnostic printout shows that it has an IP address, but it doesn't
> > respond to any type of requests or pings.  Any ideas?
> > 
> 
> Replace it :)  Honestly, a new "dumb print server" with a paralell port 
> on it (such as an HP JetDirect) shouldn't cost too much, and they 
> actually have decent admin tools.
> .
> 
> --MonMotha

The Intel NetExpress Pro/100 has two parallel ports plugged into HP
LaserJet 4 printers, load balanced print jobs.  They don't want to get
rid of the Laserjet 4 printers for a while because they bought tons of
extra toner for that model.

I don't think I have an easy solution to replace a dual parallel port
print server.  In theory I wouldn't have to, since this thing is
supposed to be configurable to use SMB protocol.  I just can't figure
out how.




Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread linuxdan
Warren
 Isnt there another a HP Opensource conference at the convention
center coming up?  I know HP rep mentioned that they were going to set
something up.
 Also meeting with IBM on the 17th and HP on the 18th.  Im
hoping to get your views on this. Maybe you may have time to attend?

Dan
- Original Message -
From: "Warren Togami" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!


> MPLUG Status 9/10/2002
>
> Warren is Busy
> --
> I'm really busy with school and there's tons happening below.  HELP!!!
>
>
> Warren speaking at BILUG meeting September 21st
> --
> I've been invited by Big Island Linux Users Group to speak at their next
> meeting about our Linux for Schools efforts on Saturday, September 21st
> at University of Hawaii Hilo.  They will have some educators at that
> meeting too.
> http://cs.uhh.hawaii.edu/BILUG/
> BILUG homepage
>
>
> Computer Expo is Canceled
> --
> I've just been informed by Dave Kobashigawa that Computer Expo 2002 will
> be cancelled.  Official announcement is due out soon.
> Crap.  There went our two booths for 5 days and two keynotes, including
> the "Linux for Schools" keynote that would have been to 200-300
> educators.  I hope we can find another expo or convention where we can
> exhibit and have that keynote.  Any ideas?
>
>
> Two Linux Training Classes in Town
> --
> CompUSA and Terabiz locally have upcoming Linux classes for some kind of
> Linux certification.  I don't remember the details at the moment, I will
> need to dig those up.  Will post again later about this.
>
>
> CompUSA "Linux for Business Demo Day"
> --
> Sunday, October 6th
> Ala Moana CompUSA Training center
> Jimen, Dan or somebody please summarize about what's going on regarding
> this.  Until somebody posts a summary you can read about the planning
> for the CompUSA Demo Day in the LinuxBusinessHawaii mailing list
> archives:
> http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/linuxbusinesshawaii
>
>
> IBM/RedHat meeting?
> --
> Dan, what is the status of these upcoming meetings?
>
>
> Non-Profit Corporation Registration
> --
> Sorry Scott I didn't get a chance to call you yet.  Perhaps we should
> discuss on list about the corporation registration stuff (except for the
> board choosing) on list because the Articles of Incorporation will be on
> public record anyway.  We need some of the following:
>
> * Choose the Foundation name.
> * Fix up our Articles of Incorporation
> * Pick initial board members
> * Some smaller details like mission statement will need to be written.
> I'm thinking about this.  Any suggestions?
>
>
> Hawaii Linux Mirror situation
> 
> UH got a bit angry with Videl today when she began pushing 50-70mbit/sec
> consistently all day due to the release of Linux Mandrake 9.0 rc2.  I'm
> forced to throttle Videl down to 10mbit/sec for now until I clarify the
> situation.  I suspect that I will not be able to get more bandwidth. =(
>
> I am now hoping that I can get a mirror onto Oceanic's network in order
> to improve accessibility to the majority of us in Hawaii.  We were
> limited between UH and Oceanic by a 10mbit link.  I suspect that if we
> can get a mirror onto Oceanic's network we can have high bandwidth to
> Roadrunner people, and rate limited bandwidth to everyone else.  If
> Oceanic agrees to a Linux mirror, we will need to provide a server.  I
> will ask for donations when/if this occurs.
>
> Are there any other ISP's or businesses out there willing to provide
> some Linux mirroring?  I can help you setup automatic mirroring of
> whatever you wish to mirror, and limit bandwidth utilization to protect
> your network resources.  Please let me know.
>
>
> St. John LTSP lab configuration
> -
> In the past few weeks Wilson Chan and I have installed 12 LTSP clients,
> LTSP server and Linux firewall at St. John the Baptist school in
> Kalihi.  The firewall was rather complicated to setup with four NIC's
> and iptables configuration to handle Internet NAT and inter-VLAN routing
> between 3 VLAN's.  Big thanks goes to MonMotha and Ray Strode who were
> instrumental in getting those complicated rules working properly.  Can
> someone post those rules for public record?  It might be useful to
> somebody, even just academically.  This Firewall is also running Squid
> proxy cache and Eric Harrison's SquidGuard package for content
> filtering.
>
> The LTSP server and thin clients are working but in need of severe
> amounts of software configuration.  Experienced Linux people are needed
> in order to prepare it for student use.  Several of the tasks pending:
> * StarOffice 6.0 installation
> * StarOffice profile scripting to get rid of the "Workstation Install"
> * Gnome defaults including:
> ** File associations
> ** Menu cleanups, make it as simple as pos

Re: [luau] Have a drink at the Elks?

2002-09-11 Thread Robert Green
Doh! Didn't mean to send that to the whole list
--- Robert Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Aloha Wayne,
> 
> My wife keeps talking about wanting to join the Elks; if its not
> too
> nosy, can you tell me what the ballpark cost is for membership?


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com


Re: [luau] Have a drink at the Elks?

2002-09-11 Thread Robert Green
Aloha Wayne,

My wife keeps talking about wanting to join the Elks; if its not too
nosy, can you tell me what the ballpark cost is for membership?


Thanks,

Rob Green


--- "W. Wayne Liauh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Protective Order
> of the Elks (BPOE)?
> 
> -Charles>
> 
> Sorry that I missed your question.  The answer is "yes".  It's on
> the so-called 
> Oahu's gold coast.
> 
> My house is about 5 minutes from Elks.  If a place and time can be
> set, I will 
> be happy to check everyone in.  (If anyone is interested in
> joining, the membership 
> fee at Elks is substantially lower than at other clubs.  Most of my
> 
> mainland friends enjoy going to Hawaii Elks much more than any
> other 
> clubs, as there are clubs on the mainland which are more posh than,
> 
> say, Ohau or Pacific.  But our Elks is truly Hawaiian.)
> 
> Cyber relationship is built largely on void.  Nothing can
> substitute a 
> face-to-face meeting.
> 
> 
> ___
> LUAU mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau


__
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Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
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Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread MonMotha

Warren Togami wrote:


Mililani's Intel NetExpress Pro/100 problems
-
Mililani's Celeron lab seems to be working okay behind their Linux NAT
box isolating their lab from the school network, but ultimately I'd like
to replace their Novell 4.10 print server with a Linux server running
Samba for their print queue (while adding file services.)  Main problem
that I see in this is that we seem to be completely unable to reach the
Intel NetExpress Pro/100 control panel through any TCP/IP means.  The
diagnostic printout shows that it has an IP address, but it doesn't
respond to any type of requests or pings.  Any ideas?



Replace it :)  Honestly, a new "dumb print server" with a paralell port 
on it (such as an HP JetDirect) shouldn't cost too much, and they 
actually have decent admin tools.



--MonMotha


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Description: PGP signature


Re: [luau] samba spanking

2002-09-11 Thread R. Scott Belford

MonMotha wrote:


R. Scott Belford wrote:

Firewall.  Did I mention that I had monmotha's firewall on the 7.2 
boxes?  I

had enabled port 139, but, no go.  Just a little while a go I decided to
flush  the chains    I was suddenly able to browse the shares, 
from everywhere.



NetBIOS name resolution works by using broadcast.  This means that you 
will need to allow udp port 138 (I believe, whatever netbios-ns is) 
from 255.255.255.255 if general broadcast is used (as opposed to the 
subnet broadcast, the last address in the subnet, which is included in 
your INTERNAL_LAN setting).  This poses a problem similar to DHCP.


Run my script, then "iptables -I INPUT -p udp --dport 138 -i interface> -s 255.255.255.255 -j ACCEPT" should fix the problem.


--MonMotha



Reading what I wrote, it almost sounds like flushing the tables fixed my 
problem.  This only alleviated my ignorance of setting up the tables 
properly.  I had added port 139.  Now I understand about port 138. 
Thanks for the knowledge.  


scott




Re: [luau] samba spanking

2002-09-11 Thread MonMotha

R. Scott Belford wrote:

Firewall.  Did I mention that I had monmotha's firewall on the 7.2 boxes?  I
had enabled port 139, but, no go.  Just a little while a go I decided to
flush  the chains.  On the one hand, and to the dismay of about 25 users,
this shut down the interface to all traffic.  Once resolved, though, I was
suddenly able to browse the shares, from everywhere.  Ouch.

Samba is a wonderful thing.  It works like the proverbial charm, except for
these rare occasions when the admin breaks it.  For those of you who have
not used it, don't let my panicked post fool you.  It is rather seemless to
use.  Sorry for the wasted traffic.

scott


NetBIOS name resolution works by using broadcast.  This means that you 
will need to allow udp port 138 (I believe, whatever netbios-ns is) from 
255.255.255.255 if general broadcast is used (as opposed to the subnet 
broadcast, the last address in the subnet, which is included in your 
INTERNAL_LAN setting).  This poses a problem similar to DHCP.


Run my script, then "iptables -I INPUT -p udp --dport 138 -i interface> -s 255.255.255.255 -j ACCEPT" should fix the problem.


--MonMotha


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Description: PGP signature


Re: [luau] Zip drive experiences

2002-09-11 Thread MonMotha

Ben Beeson wrote:

Thanks for your other help.



However, if you use devfs, you'll want to make sure you have a disk in
at boot time so devfs makes the device nodes.  I still cannot figure out
how to make it make the device nodes later on (including hdparm -z, the
whole block device doesn't exist, not just individual partitions).




Would /usr/sbin/kudzu fix this???


Not running redhat, but it seems to be a kernel issue.  The kernel sees 
the drive at startup (ATAPI floppy) but doesn't see a partition table or 
any media, so it makes no device node.  This could probably be remedied 
by compiling ATAPI floppy support as a module and loading it when needed 
(after a disk has been inserted).


--MonMotha


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Description: PGP signature


Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread Warren Togami
Al, please remember to trim your quotes on your replies.

On Wed, 2002-09-11 at 07:51, al plant wrote:
> Wayne and gurus, 
> 
> Some Ideas for the LTSP since the Expo is out. 
> 
> Small Business Hawaii is supposed to have a business/computer show this
> fall.
> Call 396-1724 to see what they are doing. Sam Sloam is the man.

I'm too busy to talk to him this week.  Can somebody else pitch the idea
of an "Open Source Community" booth showing cost-effective Linux server
solutions for small business?

> 
> Failing that we could have a school day ourselves for all the interested
> schools. Maybe the great folks at Mid Pac would let us use their place
> to hold it. It would certainly set the success and acedimic tone for the
> gathering if we could have a gathering there where we have a Linux 
> working system up and running.
> 
> We invite all the schools to come there. Then we can show and tell in
> the setting. Some Saturday maybe.
> 

An educator's conference at MidPac was my original idea until Dave
Kobashigawa told me that I could do that at Computer Expo.  Now that
Computer Expo is not happening, I will need to rethink this.




Re: [luau] 9/10/2002 - MPLUG Status... HELP!

2002-09-11 Thread al plant
Warren Togami wrote:
> 
> MPLUG Status 9/10/2002
> 
> Warren is Busy
> --
> I'm really busy with school and there's tons happening below.  HELP!!!
> 
> Warren speaking at BILUG meeting September 21st
> --
> I've been invited by Big Island Linux Users Group to speak at their next
> meeting about our Linux for Schools efforts on Saturday, September 21st
> at University of Hawaii Hilo.  They will have some educators at that
> meeting too.
> http://cs.uhh.hawaii.edu/BILUG/
> BILUG homepage
> 
> Computer Expo is Canceled
> --
> I've just been informed by Dave Kobashigawa that Computer Expo 2002 will
> be cancelled.  Official announcement is due out soon.
> Crap.  There went our two booths for 5 days and two keynotes, including
> the "Linux for Schools" keynote that would have been to 200-300
> educators.  I hope we can find another expo or convention where we can
> exhibit and have that keynote.  Any ideas?
> 
> Two Linux Training Classes in Town
> --
> CompUSA and Terabiz locally have upcoming Linux classes for some kind of
> Linux certification.  I don't remember the details at the moment, I will
> need to dig those up.  Will post again later about this.
> 
> CompUSA "Linux for Business Demo Day"
> --
> Sunday, October 6th
> Ala Moana CompUSA Training center
> Jimen, Dan or somebody please summarize about what's going on regarding
> this.  Until somebody posts a summary you can read about the planning
> for the CompUSA Demo Day in the LinuxBusinessHawaii mailing list
> archives:
> http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/linuxbusinesshawaii
> 
> IBM/RedHat meeting?
> --
> Dan, what is the status of these upcoming meetings?
> 
> Non-Profit Corporation Registration
> --
> Sorry Scott I didn't get a chance to call you yet.  Perhaps we should
> discuss on list about the corporation registration stuff (except for the
> board choosing) on list because the Articles of Incorporation will be on
> public record anyway.  We need some of the following:
> 
> * Choose the Foundation name.
> * Fix up our Articles of Incorporation
> * Pick initial board members
> * Some smaller details like mission statement will need to be written.
> I'm thinking about this.  Any suggestions?
> 
> Hawaii Linux Mirror situation
> 
> UH got a bit angry with Videl today when she began pushing 50-70mbit/sec
> consistently all day due to the release of Linux Mandrake 9.0 rc2.  I'm
> forced to throttle Videl down to 10mbit/sec for now until I clarify the
> situation.  I suspect that I will not be able to get more bandwidth. =(
> 
> I am now hoping that I can get a mirror onto Oceanic's network in order
> to improve accessibility to the majority of us in Hawaii.  We were
> limited between UH and Oceanic by a 10mbit link.  I suspect that if we
> can get a mirror onto Oceanic's network we can have high bandwidth to
> Roadrunner people, and rate limited bandwidth to everyone else.  If
> Oceanic agrees to a Linux mirror, we will need to provide a server.  I
> will ask for donations when/if this occurs.
> 
> Are there any other ISP's or businesses out there willing to provide
> some Linux mirroring?  I can help you setup automatic mirroring of
> whatever you wish to mirror, and limit bandwidth utilization to protect
> your network resources.  Please let me know.
> 
> St. John LTSP lab configuration
> -
> In the past few weeks Wilson Chan and I have installed 12 LTSP clients,
> LTSP server and Linux firewall at St. John the Baptist school in
> Kalihi.  The firewall was rather complicated to setup with four NIC's
> and iptables configuration to handle Internet NAT and inter-VLAN routing
> between 3 VLAN's.  Big thanks goes to MonMotha and Ray Strode who were
> instrumental in getting those complicated rules working properly.  Can
> someone post those rules for public record?  It might be useful to
> somebody, even just academically.  This Firewall is also running Squid
> proxy cache and Eric Harrison's SquidGuard package for content
> filtering.
> 
> The LTSP server and thin clients are working but in need of severe
> amounts of software configuration.  Experienced Linux people are needed
> in order to prepare it for student use.  Several of the tasks pending:
> * StarOffice 6.0 installation
> * StarOffice profile scripting to get rid of the "Workstation Install"
> * Gnome defaults including:
> ** File associations
> ** Menu cleanups, make it as simple as possible
> * Mozilla simplification and privacy defaults
> * All of the above changes must propagate to all users automatically
> * Figure out how to make floppy drives on thin clients simple to use for
> end-users.  This one is a biggie, fairly difficult, but possible.
> I will post more details later.
> 
> Oracle server for Linux experience needed
> -
> Wayne Liauh donated a 1GHz Athlon machine to be Mililani's Linux Oracle
> server.  Unfortunately I'm too bus

Re: [luau] Digital Camera with Linux

2002-09-11 Thread al plant
Ray Strode wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >We use a Sony Cameras that work on a .jpg format floppy disk. Good
> >Quality and loads directly onto any OS with a floppy drive.
> >
> >You can get the camera for a good price at the Navy EX.
> >
> JPEG isn't really the best format for holding raw image data because
> it's lossy.
> It's an excellent format for saving disk space though (such as for the
> web or for storing
> megapixel images on a floppy disk.)
> 
> --Ray
> 
> ___
> LUAU mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
#

Yep, Thats right.

I assumed he was talking about webservices for photos. There are some
higher res products that are available for work in motion picture
industry graphics. 

Sony and Panasonic have commercial pro versions of these for the cinema
industry. 
-- 
Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com
Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii.
Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2
Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043