Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Angela Kahealani]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 20:04:08 808blogger wrote:
> 
> I run 100% open source
> I am a parent
> 
> Having nothing to do with hosef i'll chime in.
> the hosef group seems ( by looking at the photo gallery and projects)
> focuses a lot on hardware for some reason. This was made clear when
> reference was made about the hosef listserver(the physical machine
> from what I interpreted). Why the focus on the machines? 

I think it's often easier to gift a fully functional computer into the 
community, made from FLOSS and e-waste, than it is to convince an 
existing computer owner to risk their own hardware on that radical 
FLOSS stuff. Once they see how well it works, they become converted,
and more willing to convert more of their computers to FLOSS.

Nobody is interested in software.
Nobody is interested in hardware.
Everyone wants practical solutions to problems,
and that often requires a functional combination
of hardware and software, so it only makes sense,
to go solve a problem with a packaged deal..
and how sweet it is if that packaged solution costs $0,
and also reduces the size of Hawai'i's landfills.
Scott has been providing these solutions where they were needed most,
where the $ simply weren't there for the alternatives, so, yeah,
he's been majorly focussed on the Free (as in beer) FLOSS,
and less on the Free (as in freedom) aspect of FLOSS,
so be careful what you ask for, as this sovereign minded freedom 
advocate has been very politely staying *on* *topic* in this forum,
rather than ranting about the FREE DOMINION aspect of FLOSS, but,
if you really wanna go there, I'm game.
Either GPL3 or GPL2 just beats the kukai outta the alternatives offered 
by Steve MacJobs or Bill "Monopoly" Gates.

> Hosef also seems to focus a lot on children. This is very commendable
> but does very little for the long term effective goal of open source
> advocacy. 

Actually, it is a long term strategy, the same one played by MacApple 
and by Microshaft, who've for many years offered steep discounts for 
school installations, in order to try to brainwash the next generation 
into learning computers on their particular flavor, with the hope 
they'd grow up to be consumers and corporate influencers who bought 
what they learned on. So, HOSEF actually is doing a long term modality, 
and maybe what you really want to see is something more focused on the 
short term.

> Hosef also seems to have a business allergy. Hosef should 
> be educating businesses how to leverage open source software to their
> benefit and bottom line. When business start become useres and
> understanders of open source the result will be more open source at
> home and at schools. 

We might say that for the mere investment of a measly $50 per year or 
so, that businesses can subscribe to both Linux Magazine and Linux 
Journal, and become educated on Linux use in business. I haven't seen 
much in either magazine other than one brief mention of K12LTSP, that 
seriously supported schools and keiki. On the other hand, I'm well 
aware that there are a number of schools around Hawai'i who'd be 
without computer programs for keiki if it weren't for HOSEF's K12LTSP 
computer lab installations. FLOSS has always been a comunity thing.
FLOSS only exists because of altruistic technical community. HOSEF 
(Scott) has been instrumental in perpetuating that community by getting 
FLOSS and e-waste into schools to create the next generation of people 
who appreciate FLOSS.

> Hosef needs to be much more involved in the 
> business community. The for the children bit seems more like a
> novelty and "cheapens" the image of the oss community. 

It's harder to get "cheaper" than FREE (as in beer).
You can't possibly "cheapen" the FLOSS community, it's already $0.
What might be useful is to emphasize the FREEdom aspect of it.
Steve MacJobs and Bill Monopoly Gates haven't learned how to maintain 
committed relationships, they always break it off after 3 years, 
whereas FLOSS will actually keep your hardware running until it dies,
so as far as cheap dates go (cheap as in lacking real love, yet actually 
expensive in terms of $) you can't beat MS or Mac, whereas FLOSS is 
cheap at $0, but will love you cuddly penguin style for the life of 
your hardware.

> Moving 
> machines and installing ubuntu for kids seems like a very low level
> of operation.

Kids and underfunded schools simply have more open minds,
than old farts who are already habituated into things like MicroShaft.
The successes of HOSEF in the area they've focussed, has built a 
reputation, which not even the latest infighting can do away with,
and it's no secret that the vastly major percentage of energy which
built that reputation came from Scott Belford.

> Helping people make money with oss != evil

...and the history of Red Hat and Fedora
which is an excellent example of FLOSS for profit,
owes a boatload of thanks to Scott Belford, and UH
(sorry, I forgot the name of the guy at UH who,
together with Scott, launch

Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[808blogger]

REPOST- I sent from wrong address and it got trapped in moderation. sorry


I run 100% open source
I am a parent

Having nothing to do with hosef i'll chime in.
the hosef group seems ( by looking at the photo gallery and projects)
focuses a lot on hardware for some reason. This was made clear when
reference was made about the hosef listserver(the physical machine from
what I interpreted). Why the focus on the machines? Anyone can host a
list serve. I know for a fact multiple companies would host a hosef
server for free.
Hosef also seems to focus a lot on children. This is very commendable
but does very little for the long term effective goal of open source
advocacy. Hosef also seems to have a business allergy. Hosef should be
educating businesses how to leverage open source software to their
benefit and bottom line. When business start become useres and
understanders of open source the result will be more open source at home
and at schools. Hosef needs to be much more involved in the business
community. The for the children bit seems more like a novelty and
"cheapens" the image of the oss community. Moving machines and
installing ubuntu for kids seems like a very low level of operation.

Helping people make money with oss != evil

Just my 2 cents worth..



On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On Mar 26, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Angela Kahealani wrote:
>
> > what is the "right" alternative you propose instead?
>
> A fundamental refocusing of HOSEF away from eWaste and back to
> advocacy and education about Free and Open Source.
>
> Jim
>
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Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Peter Besenbruch]

On Wednesday 26 March 2008 18:57:07 Dave Burns wrote:
> This answer is pretty vague. Vince and I have both asked similar
> questions on the list, which were also dismissed.

Such questions get answered when an organization wants to work together. The 
level of conflict I have seen here means there will be no concrete movement 
as long as the players are in place and fighting.

I have been to a couple of meetings with Scott, and he was clearly the leader 
of the meeting. No-one else from the board was there.

In the long run, no organization will survive when the most active member 
fights the board. Legally, the board calls the shots, and it may be a good 
thing for Scott to form a separate organization of like minded people, rather 
than get into an escalating conflict. Whether there will be anything left of 
HOSEF, if Scott leaves is another issue.

-- 
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HAS Deepsky Atlas: http://www.hawastsoc.org/deepsky
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Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Angela Kahealani]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 17:06:27 Jim Thompson wrote:
> A fundamental refocusing of HOSEF away from eWaste and back to  
> advocacy and education about Free and Open Source.
>
> Jim

How would that, then, be different from a LUG (Linux User's Group)? 
other than also supporting BSD, and Solaris and Darwin?
...and on what basis would a User's Group need to be a 501(c)3?
i.e., why not also cease being a corporation?

Aloha, Angela

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Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Dave Burns]

>  > what is the "right" alternative you propose instead?
>
>  A fundamental refocusing of HOSEF away from eWaste and back to
>  advocacy and education about Free and Open Source.

This answer is pretty vague. Vince and I have both asked similar
questions on the list, which were also dismissed.

HOSEF has just lost a leader, and the board has declared that its
direction will change in important ways. There are accusations flying
back and forth. These are blows to the morale of a volunteer-based
organization. I would have expected the board members to articulate
clearly what sort of changes they plan to make and to try to keep the
volunteers up to date and on board. I've seen some energy pointed at
griping about the past, not so much aimed at the future. Does the
board have any example of a specific goal or project that they'd like
to see happen? I do not know anything about their plans, except that
Scott and e-waste will not be involved.

Dave
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Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Jim Thompson]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Angela Kahealani wrote:

> what is the "right" alternative you propose instead?

A fundamental refocusing of HOSEF away from eWaste and back to  
advocacy and education about Free and Open Source.

Jim

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Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Angela Kahealani]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 16:45:53 Jim Thompson wrote:
> If you will listen, there are many who will tell you where you went  
> wrong.

Nevermind what's wrong with Scott...
what is the "right" alternative you propose instead?

-- 
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Re: [LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[Jim Thompson]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 4:24 PM, R. Scott Belford wrote:
> Hello.  My name is Scott.  I have never seen my name so many times  
> in a
> generally negative light as I have these last few days on the LUAU  
> mailing
> list.  This is life, and people have voices.  So be it.  It is  
> easier to
> destroy than to build.  Such is entropy.
>
> My hero is Don Shula.  When confronted with these situations, he  
> simply
> stated that he would not dignify such comments by responding to  
> them.  It is
> hard when one is being slandered and libeled, but, so be it.
>
> I live by the words - if you have nothing to be defensive of, why be
> defensive.  It seems to work.  Many of the issues being dragged onto  
> the
> LUAU mailing list are being patiently, persistently, and positively  
> dealt
> with on a mailing list called HOSEF-managers at lists.hosef.org
>
> http://lists.hosef.org/pipermail/hosef-managers-hosef.org/2008q1/

Subject to your malicious and capricious moderation, of course.  An  
action, I might add, that is expressly *NOT* endorsed by
HOSEF's board of directors.

This is the very reason why the discussion has moved (in part) to  
LUAU, a forum which you (hopefully) will not also not moderate at your  
personal whim.

"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."  John  
Gilmore, quoted in Time Magazine's December 6, 1993 article "First  
Nation in Cyberspace"
In its original form, it meant that the Usenet software was resistant  
to censorship because, if a node drops certain messages because it  
doesn't like their subject, the messages find their way past that node  
anyway by some other route. This is also a reference to the packet- 
routing protocols that the Internet uses to direct packets around any  
broken wires or fiber connections or routers. (They don't redirect  
around selective censorship, but they do recover if an entire node is  
shut down to censor it.)

The meaning of the phrase has grown through the years. Internet users  
have proven it time after time, by personally and publicly replicating  
information that is threatened with destruction or censorship. If you  
now consider the Net to be not only the wires and machines, but the  
people and their social structures who use the machines, it is more  
true than ever.

> It is in my last three postings and another upcoming that I am doing  
> my best
> to put the kind of face to this that would make my parents proud.
>
> The irony is this - I tried to get someone else to host LUAU, the  
> mailing
> list through which we are now conversing.  This mailing list is now  
> hosted
> on an account that I pay for through a domain that I pay for.  I
> deliberately do not have any control or moderation over LUAU.

Implicit threats, all.These are HOSEF's assets, not yours.

> I even made sure that all the messages got ported over, even the  
> nasty ones about me.  I
> am paying for you to say whatever you want to say about me.  I don't  
> know
> where I went so wrong that people try to destroy, rather than build  
> upon,
> whatever good I and others have accomplished, but at least I am still
> providing you a platform to do it.

If you will listen, there are many who will tell you where you went  
wrong.

> The original server that was hosting this list was built and donated  
> by me.

If it was donated to HOSEF, then title to same remains with HOSEF, and  
you are not free to dispose of it as you wish.

> The creation of HOSEF gave me and the other contributors over the  
> years a
> chance to take a tax deduction for these donations.  This server is  
> still in
> the racks at UH awaiting help and support upgrading it.

Michael Bishop and I have volunteered to remake it at Vince's bidding.

> It is yours, I have no control over it, and it, like LUAU, can be  
> used to say whatever people
> want to say.

I'll say it again, if it was donated to HOSEF, then title to same  
remains with HOSEF, and you are not free to dispose of it as you wish.

Jim

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[LUAU] Hello - My Name is Scott

[R. Scott Belford]

Hello.  My name is Scott.  I have never seen my name so many times in a
generally negative light as I have these last few days on the LUAU mailing
list.  This is life, and people have voices.  So be it.  It is easier to
destroy than to build.  Such is entropy.

My hero is Don Shula.  When confronted with these situations, he simply
stated that he would not dignify such comments by responding to them.  It is
hard when one is being slandered and libeled, but, so be it.

I live by the words - if you have nothing to be defensive of, why be
defensive.  It seems to work.  Many of the issues being dragged onto the
LUAU mailing list are being patiently, persistently, and positively dealt
with on a mailing list called HOSEF-managers at lists.hosef.org

http://lists.hosef.org/pipermail/hosef-managers-hosef.org/2008q1/

It is in my last three postings and another upcoming that I am doing my best
to put the kind of face to this that would make my parents proud.

The irony is this - I tried to get someone else to host LUAU, the mailing
list through which we are now conversing.  This mailing list is now hosted
on an account that I pay for through a domain that I pay for.  I
deliberately do not have any control or moderation over LUAU.  I even made
sure that all the messages got ported over, even the nasty ones about me.  I
am paying for you to say whatever you want to say about me.  I don't know
where I went so wrong that people try to destroy, rather than build upon,
whatever good I and others have accomplished, but at least I am still
providing you a platform to do it.

The original server that was hosting this list was built and donated by me.
The creation of HOSEF gave me and the other contributors over the years a
chance to take a tax deduction for these donations.  This server is still in
the racks at UH awaiting help and support upgrading it.  It is yours, I have
no control over it, and it, like LUAU, can be used to say whatever people
want to say.  We have really done some good with HOSEF, but in this bullying
atmosphere I fear that only the detractors are finding a safe haven for
their voices.

--scott
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Jim Thompson]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> Jim and the other members of the current board seem to have attempted
> to assert their authority. Other board members, faced with the same
> problems, have left.

The question becomes, "What is the better path?"

Is it better to leave and minimize personal liability, or is it better  
to stand and face the wrath of someone now used to getting their way?

This doesn't mean that I fault any former board member for leaving,  
everyone currently on the board has considered same.

If a watch has a broken mainspring, you can restore the watch to  
functionality by replacing the spring.
The same may not be true for HOSEF replacing its board members or its  
executive director.

jim
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Jim Thompson]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Angela Kahealani <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
>> So, what are the areas of legal uncertainty?
>
> I'm not sure it would serve any good purpose to go into details. Would
> "large expenditures without first checking with the board" and
> "business ventures without first checking with the board" be
> sufficient?

These are especially true in light of HOSEF's 501(c)3 status.

Jim

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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Karen Lofstrom]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Angela Kahealani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  So, what are the areas of legal uncertainty?

I'm not sure it would serve any good purpose to go into details. Would
"large expenditures without first checking with the board" and
"business ventures without first checking with the board" be
sufficient?

-- 
Karen Lofstrom
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Angela Kahealani]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 15:39:05 Karen Lofstrom wrote:
> board members can be
> legally liable if Scott, in his enthusiasm, does something that's not
> exactly legit.

So, what are the areas of legal uncertainty?

-- 
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Karen Lofstrom]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  The board has certain obligations to keep the corporation (HOSEF is a 
> corporation) solvent and functional.  As a board member, I may become liable 
> for these  obligations.

Over the past few years, other board members have left for precisely
those reasons. Scott is reluctant to share authority. It's
understandable, when HOSEF was his vision and he's doing most of the
work, but it means that he needs a rubber-stamp board, one that exists
just to keep HOSEF legal.  But, as Jim says, board members can be
legally liable if Scott, in his enthusiasm, does something that's not
exactly legit.

Jim and the other members of the current board seem to have attempted
to assert their authority. Other board members, faced with the same
problems, have left.

I'm not sure that there's any good resolution to this problem.

--
Karen Lofstrom
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Re: [LUAU] Mail Back: USPS to recycle (some) e-waste free of charge

[Al Plant]

Dave Burns wrote:
> Too bad it is not happening in Hawaii (except apple - great if you
> have a mac). It looks like the USPS one may ultimately come to Hawaii,
> but it is only for cell phones, toner carts, other small stuff,  no
> PCs. I wonder if they'd let you take out a circuit board, break it in
> half, and stuff it in the envelope? Dell needs to get moving.
> Dave
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>>  >   >
>>
>>  see also: >  pr08_028.htm>
>>
>>  Motorola does this and gives money to schools as part of the deal: 
>> >   >
>>
>>  Apple does it too: , see
>>  also: >   > with the details that:
>>
>>
>>
>>  Maximum Measurement of Each Box:  H26 in. x W26 in. x D26 in.
>>
>>  Maximum Allowable Weight: 60 pounds
>>
>>  Price: $30.00  (free if you've bought an Apple Mac in the last two
>>  years)
>>
>>  Packaging Materials: Supplied by Customer
>>
>>  And Dell does the same thing in several mainland cities: 
>> >   >
>>
>>
>>
>>  Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ___
>>  LUAU@lists.hosef.org mailing list
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>>
>> 
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>
>   
Aloha Gurus,

In Hawaii any cell phone can be turned into at&t or Verizon and they 
give them to the Domestic Violence prevention group.

~Al Plant - Honolulu, Hawaii -  Phone:  808-284-2740
  + http://hawaiidakine.com + http://freebsdinfo.org + 
  + http://aloha50.net   - Supporting - FreeBSD 6.* - 7.* - 8.* +
  < email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Jim Thompson]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 2:12 PM, Angela Kahealani wrote:
>>
>> For those of you who
>> don't   know, Scott recently added a 'storefront' for selling
>> recycled computers in an Ewa Beach auto parts store.
>
> So what?
>
>> The board has
>> *no* idea what the terms of that relationship are, nor has Scott
>> chosen to respond to board inquiries on this, or other matters.
>
> So what?

The board has certain obligations to keep the corporation (HOSEF is a  
corporation) solvent and functional.  As a board member, I may become  
liable for these
obligations.

Jim

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Re: [LUAU] HOSEF

[Angela Kahealani]

On Wed, 2008-03-26 13:31:12 Jim Thompson wrote:
> Meanwhile, various people are sniping at me because I want to change
>   the direction of HOSEF *away* from eWaste recycling, and back to
> something focused on Free and Open Source.

Hawai'i Open Source Education Foundation
...the name says it all... it's mission is spreading FLOSS
(FLOSS daily to keep the Dr. away.)
now, what does it take to spead the FLOSSy goodness?
like *anything*, it takes $$$
therefore, whatever produces $ to support spreading the FLOSS
message is a good thing, and nothing like the resurrection of
othwise destined-for-the-landfill reuse of hardware
by lightweight FLOSS can possibly be better at spreading FLOSSing.
i.e. many computers relegated by Apple and MicroShaft to the landfill,
remain actually *useful* be re-baptizing them with FLOSS, and the best
implementor of that is HOSEF. HOSEF is good. HOSEF *does* good.

> I think that the Computer / CE manufacturers will shortly overrun the
>   'market' for such services, based on the California law alone.
>  This makes the 'viability' of HOSEF based on eWaste recycling
> short-term at- best.  

Until it no longer succeeds, HOSEF is the penultimate
example of turning shit into benefits for the community.
If you've got a better solution to the world's problems,
then go ahead and manifest it, meanwhile, take your
criticisms of HOSEF and shove 'em up /dev/null.

> Scott has thrown up a lot of smokescreen on 
> this front, claiming that HOSEF can't change its "sustaining
> activity" or the IRS will revoke HOSEF's 501(c)3 status (It won't,
> and I've shown how its easy to do.)

Even if you're correct that Scott has his head up his ass, then
Go ahead and create your alternative to HOSEF,
meanwhile leave HOSEF to do what it does best.
If you sincerely believe you can do better than Scott,
then *do* *so*! Create your alternative, and 
*make* *it* *happen*... it's a free world,
and HOSEF *can* *not* stand in your way.
Scott created HOSEF, and he and it don't answer to you.
If you *really* *believe* that you can do better,
there is nothing, including Scott and HOSEF,
standing in your way. Stop opposing Scott and HOSEF,
and create your positive alternative. *IFF* your
alternative is *actually* better than HOSEF and Scott,
then everyone will jump ship and join your movement
and then Scott and HOSEF will fade away.

*Any*one can criticize what others have created.
*Nothing* of Scott or HOSEF *can* stand in your way.
If you don't like Scott or HOSEF, then stop bitching,
and *create* the *postive* *alternative*. 

Truth will out. If *your* idea truly *is* better,
then everyone will migrate to it. It takes no brains
and no effort to criticise, so just stop it.
If your ideas are superior, then *go* manifest them,
and everyone will recognize your superiority,
and migrate from HOSEF/Scott to your creation.
Otherwise, shut the *frak* up!

> Meanwhile, Scott has acted to incumber HOSEF,

you probably meant "encumber"

> often without board   
> oversight prior to the decision being made. 

Scott has performed miracles for the benefit of *both*
the FLOSS community, and the local community with the
repurposing of otherwise landfill material to serve
educational purposes and helping the disempowered/disenfranchised,
e.g. providing K12LTSP labs for a variety of Hawai'i schools, and
FLOSS for free computing for people and places that otherwise
wouldn't have *any* computing resources.

> For those of you who 
> don't   know, Scott recently added a 'storefront' for selling
> recycled computers in an Ewa Beach auto parts store.  

So what?

> The board has 
> *no* idea what the terms of that relationship are, nor has Scott
> chosen to respond to board inquiries on this, or other matters.  

So what?

> There is a lot I could say here about HOSEF matters but this is the
> LUAU list.

So, contribute on LUAU *anything* which actually *adds* to,
versus *takes* *away* *from* the community...
rather than criticizing what is, if you don't *frackin'* like what is,
then create a positive alternative, and leave alone
those who have done their best to *both*
promote FLOSS, and *help* the community.

> I can't post this discussion to hosef-managers, because Scott has  
> erected himself as "moderator" of that list, and has already chosen
> to   reject messages at his whim.

If you find that "what is" is less than what you can create,
and you're unwilling to support "what is" then go ahead
and create the positive alternative, otherwise, piss off.
If Scott/HOSEF's mailing lists don't support your agenda(e),
then create your own frackin' mailing list! It's not like
FLOSS doesn't include mailman as an installable option:
BASH> sudo aptitude install mailman
is trivial... so *do* *it*.
I'll subscribe to your mailing list...
just to see what you create that's
*better* *than* what Scott has created.

Criticism of others takes no brains and minimal effort.
If you don't like what others created, then
create the *positive* *alter

Re: [LUAU] Mail Back: USPS to recycle (some) e-waste free of charge

[Vince Hoang]

I suggest you drop this last paragraph and send it to hosef-managers.
The discourse belongs there. If your message lacks personal attacks,
it should be let through. (This should not imply that I condone the
moderation.)

-Vince

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I can't post this discussion to hosef-managers, because Scott has
>  erected himself as "moderator" of that list, and has already chosen to
>  reject messages at his whim.
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Re: [LUAU] Mail Back: USPS to recycle (some) e-waste free of charge

[Jim Thompson]

I think what we're seeing here is the leading edge of the computer /  
consumer electronics manufacturers getting into the game based on the  
years-old law in California that essentially forces their hand.

Apple will take back up to 60 lbs of your ewaste for $30 if you  
haven't recently bought a Mac.  That includes shipping, even from  
Hawaii, but you have to supply the box.   Periodically they have a  
"just bring it all" campaign (likely so they can get the 'weight'  
needed to stay in compliance with the California law), and this too  
works in Hawaii.   This is a "consumer" program, though Apple also has  
an "Enterprise" program as well.

Yes, I believe that the USPS one will rapidly expand to all 50  
states.  I doubt they send the circuit board back. though they likely  
can't use it, either.

Some of these programs were already known, but I found the USPS one  
surprising in its scope.   Even the least tech-savvy person can  
typically find the local Post Office.

Meanwhile, various people are sniping at me because I want to change  
the direction of HOSEF *away* from eWaste recycling, and back to  
something focused on Free and Open Source.

I think that the Computer / CE manufacturers will shortly overrun the  
'market' for such services, based on the California law alone.  This  
makes the 'viability' of HOSEF based on eWaste recycling short-term at- 
best.  Scott has thrown up a lot of smokescreen on this front,  
claiming that HOSEF can't change its "sustaining activity" or the IRS  
will revoke HOSEF's 501(c)3 status (It won't, and I've shown how its  
easy to do.)

Meanwhile, Scott has acted to incumber HOSEF, often without board  
oversight prior to the decision being made. For those of you who don't  
know, Scott recently added a 'storefront' for selling recycled  
computers in an Ewa Beach auto parts store.  The board has *no* idea  
what the terms of that relationship are, nor has Scott chosen to  
respond to board inquiries on this, or other matters.   There is a lot  
I could say here about HOSEF matters but this is the LUAU list.

I can't post this discussion to hosef-managers, because Scott has  
erected himself as "moderator" of that list, and has already chosen to  
reject messages at his whim.



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Re: [LUAU] Mail Back: USPS to recycle (some) e-waste free of charge

[Dave Burns]

Too bad it is not happening in Hawaii (except apple - great if you
have a mac). It looks like the USPS one may ultimately come to Hawaii,
but it is only for cell phones, toner carts, other small stuff,  no
PCs. I wonder if they'd let you take out a circuit board, break it in
half, and stuff it in the envelope? Dell needs to get moving.
Dave
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>     >
>
>  see also:   pr08_028.htm>
>
>  Motorola does this and gives money to schools as part of the deal: 
>    >
>
>  Apple does it too: , see
>  also:    > with the details that:
>
>
>
>  Maximum Measurement of Each Box:  H26 in. x W26 in. x D26 in.
>
>  Maximum Allowable Weight: 60 pounds
>
>  Price: $30.00  (free if you've bought an Apple Mac in the last two
>  years)
>
>  Packaging Materials: Supplied by Customer
>
>  And Dell does the same thing in several mainland cities: 
>    >
>
>
>
>  Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ___
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>
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Re: [LUAU] non-distro firewall recommendations?

[Eric Hattemer]

Jeff Mings wrote:
> Is there a good up-to-date firewall solution like MonMotha's?  It is 
> _really_ easy to configure, and make work.  The only thing missing is 
> the ability to deny packets from certain hosts.  The MonMotha script was 
> supposed to do this, but the office girls were still able to suck away 
> the bandwidth and their productivity at myspace.com, forever21.com, 
> etc.  Shorewall unequivocally blocks the crap sites.  I also need to 
> accomodate Gizmo and the SIP / RTP functionality of the Talkswitch 
> mini-PBXes.  The servers are primarily Fedora Core (8,7,6) boxes that 
> primarily serve OpenVPN, Samba, HTTP and DHCP.
>
> Suggestions?
>   
I don't know if you can hook it into dynamic lists, but 
http://www.fwbuilder.org/ is my favorite.  It's a GUI program where you 
create objects like "loopback interface", "my subnet", "ICMP", "UDP Port 
1", and you drag them around and make a layout of your rules.  Once 
you're done, you can export a firewall script for a dozen different 
operating systems.

-Eric Hattemer

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