[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
George- I have not seen anyone who can customize a professionally looking Linux desktop as well as you can. With RedHat Limbo, I don't see much need for IceWM any more. Perhaps you could apply your superb artist's touch on Limbo/KDE?
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Let's be honest. RedHat 7.3 totally suks on a personal PC. W. Wayne Liauh wrote: I do not appreciate overbroad comments along the lines of Because card X doesn't work in distro Y, distro Y is negligent to desktop Linux. Red Hat is negligent toward desktop Linux for other reasons. =) To be blunt, Warren, for a distro to not be able to detect a tulip-based NIC card, it sucks. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Actually, if you get Red Hat to your customization, it is indeed more stable than Mandrake.
[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Further to my comment. Limbo 2 runs great on the GHz Athlon machine that I am going to give to Warren. Indeed, great is an understatement; it runs absolutely beautifully. I have never seen anything like that. WordPerfect 8, running from a KDE taskbar, took one second to load, and zero (i.e., ZERO) second to import an HTML document. As far as I am concerned, this is more than amazing, it is truly unbelievable. Of course, there were some glitches in the beginning, such as that I had to manually load the tulip driver for the Linksys NIC, and re-work on the desktop, task bar, etc. But that's not much a price to pay. OTOH, Mandrake 9.0 beta 2 is not nearly as ready as Mandrake 8.2 beta 2 at an equivalent stage. Mandrake is laying off a bunch of people, including some core developers. Without a viable business model (it is now living primarily on gratituous club membership), I don't know how much longer it can survive. Very sad!
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
I agree. Red Hat does not suck as a desktop machine. Granted, it does take a little more work to set up then mandrake or windows. Comments like Redhat just sucks as a personal desktop machine serve no purpose. If you really have a gripe against it, state specifics and I am sure you will get good responses. fortune tidbit: Gotta be user error. On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, W. Wayne Liauh wrote: Actually, if you get Red Hat to your customization, it is indeed more stable than Mandrake. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau -- --lucidity
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
While it's good to know that RH runs great on a specific machine, It is indeed sad to hear that Mandrake is having problems. Perhaps there will be a Wallmart/RedHat PC that will be pre configured. I don't think any computer system that isn't extremely both user friendly and very stable will be successful in the long run. W. Wayne Liauh wrote: Further to my comment. Limbo 2 runs great on the GHz Athlon machine. Indeed, great is an understatement; it runs absolutely beautifully. I have never seen anything like that. WordPerfect 8, running from a KDE taskbar, took one second to load, and zero (i.e., ZERO) second to import an HTML document. OTOH, Mandrake 9.0 beta 2 is not nearly as ready as Mandrake 8.2 beta 2 at an equivalent stage. Mandrake is laying off a bunch of people, including some core developers. Without a viable business model (it is now living primarily on gratituous club membership), I don't know how much longer it can survive. Very sad! ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
I do not appreciate overbroad comments along the lines of Because card X doesn't work in distro Y, distro Y is negligent to desktop Linux. Red Hat is negligent toward desktop Linux for other reasons. =) To be blunt, Warren, for a distro to not be able to detect a tulip-based NIC card, it sucks.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
On Wed, 2002-08-14 at 11:38, W. Wayne Liauh wrote: I do not appreciate overbroad comments along the lines of Because card X doesn't work in distro Y, distro Y is negligent to desktop Linux. Red Hat is negligent toward desktop Linux for other reasons. =) To be blunt, Warren, for a distro to not be able to detect a tulip-based NIC card, it sucks. Sorry about this particular post Wayne. I misunderstood your original post and responded too hastily. I was under severe stress at the time too. Wayne, may I borrow this card please? I'd like to make sure that it works in the next version of Red Hat. If you would like, I can build custom driver packages for this card for any version of Red Hat you need too, but would I need to borrow the card for testing. Thanks, Warren
[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Ray- It can be very frustrating if and when you take Linux seriously (e.g., running a Linux-based business, or even trying to make a living doing Linux). I always believe that if people appreciate your work, they will be willing to pay. There is enough money flying around but you must first identify your potential customers. And before that, you must have a system, or know exactly where to find a system, that will make them happy. I believe I mentioned this personal story of mine here before. Michael Dell, when he was a freshman at the University of Texas, used to come to our office (Exxon, which has been either No. 1 or No. 2 company in the US) trying to sell the PCs built by his company (PC Limited, which has only one employee--himself). This guy was very persistent--he came to our office almost every week, doing demo to everyone who cared to listen. He knew that, if he could make just one sale, the name Exxon carries a lot of prestige. Yes it did, and the rest became history. Basically, to avoid frustrations, we need to realize that our resources are very limited. Marketing is important. But ability to identify able (to pay) and willing (to use) customers has a greater priority.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Tulip, which was initially developed by NASA, is an open-source project. As such, it is incumbent upon the due diligence of each distro to make sure that it can properly detect the various modifications thereof. The tulip driver is actually maintained as it's own project (http://tulip.sourceforge.net I think), and also by the kernel maintainers. Of course many distributions have people working on the kernel and possibly the tulip driver, but it's more a function of the linux kernel, which is largely the same across all distributions (it's what makes them Linux). --MonMotha
[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Hi, Warren and Mon- I apologize that I probably made it more complicated than it had to be. The issue is not the tulip driver, but hardware detection of NIC cards using tulip chipset. As Mon mentioned, the tulip driver for the Linksys NIC chipset, which was correctly identified by Mandrake as well as most other distros, comes with the kernel itself. I didn't have any problem making the Linksys card work with Red Hat Limbo or 7.3. All you need to do is making sure that the modules.conf file has a correct statement alias eth0 tulip. I just don't know how to do this graphically in Red Hat. The reason I particularly mentioned the Linksys cards is that, with rebate, etc., you can often get them free at CompUSA.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Its gets frustrating having to reinstall over and over again. On Monday 12 August 2002 20:35, you wrote: Maybe somebody can post instructions on how to download the beta Linux and how to compile the kernel and set it up. I would appreciate it. I failed to get it right on four attempts. Yes Im in between newbie and novice. But probably closer to newbie. The kernel howto is a good place to start. Expect to make some mistakes the first few times. I compiled about 3 kernels before I got it right, and this was on a 486 taking 4 hours every time :) --Monmotha ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
I installed Red Hat (both 7.3 and Limbo) in one of my machines with a Linksys LNE100TX card. This is the only distro that couldn't recognize my Linksys card. (Based on the difference b/t 7.3 and Limbo, it is apparent that Red Hat is trying to expand into the desktop territory. But, all things considered, I am more convinced that I need to upgrade my Mandrake club membership level; we definitely can't let Mandrake die.) Can anyone tell me which of the ethernet cards supported by Red Hat also uses tulip driver?
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 10:08, W. Wayne Liauh wrote: I installed Red Hat (both 7.3 and Limbo) in one of my machines with a Linksys LNE100TX card. This is the only distro that couldn't recognize my Linksys card. (Based on the difference b/t 7.3 and Limbo, it is apparent that Red Hat is trying to expand into the desktop territory. But, all things considered, I am more convinced that I need to upgrade my Mandrake club membership level; we definitely can't let Mandrake die.) Can anyone tell me which of the ethernet cards supported by Red Hat also uses tulip driver? I do not appreciate overbroad comments along the lines of Because card X doesn't work in distro Y, distro Y is negligent to desktop Linux. Red Hat is negligent toward desktop Linux for other reasons. =) You have identified a bug probably with a new revision of the LNE100TX. Can you find the card revision version? The Linksys web page has several pictures to help you identify the version by reading the chips onboard. http://www.linksys.com/download/driver.asp?dlid=2osid=6 Is this a brand new retail card? If so, may I borrow the card or I will buy one in order to test it myself and be sure it works in Limbo beta. Please let me know where you bought it, and the revision version #. After I figure out this card, I'll build you custom RPM's with kernel drivers that should work in Red Hat 7.3.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
I do not appreciate overbroad comments along the lines of Because card X doesn't work in distro Y, distro Y is negligent to desktop Linux. Red Hat is negligent toward desktop Linux for other reasons. =) Easy now You misread what he said. He said something along the lines of.: Well, the new beta of RedHat obviously has a more improved setup for desktop users than 7.3 did, but I still want to support Mandrake, instead, because they are smaller and could use more help. Having a bad day? --Ray
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 13:57, Ray Strode wrote: Easy now You misread what he said. He said something along the lines of.: Well, the new beta of RedHat obviously has a more improved setup for desktop users than 7.3 did, but I still want to support Mandrake, instead, because they are smaller and could use more help. Having a bad day? --Ray How dare you question me! j/j Yeah, a bit stressed out here. I misunderstood Wayne a bit, and perhaps I miscommunicated a bit in last post, I could have made it more clear that I think Mandrake is doing a much better at end-user desktop Linux than Red Hat. I should have also mentioned that I contribute money to both Red Hat and Mandrake, and it is imperative that both companies must not die.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
W. Wayne Liauh wrote: I installed Red Hat (both 7.3 and Limbo) in one of my machines with a Linksys LNE100TX card. This is the only distro that couldn't recognize my Linksys card. (Based on the difference b/t 7.3 and Limbo, it is apparent that Red Hat is trying to expand into the desktop territory. But, all things considered, I am more convinced that I need to upgrade my Mandrake club membership level; we definitely can't let Mandrake die.) Can anyone tell me which of the ethernet cards supported by Red Hat also uses tulip driver? ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau Desktop 3COM 90X Laptop Netgear 4a11 7.3 recognizes fine
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Ray Strode wrote: I do not appreciate overbroad comments along the lines of Because card X doesn't work in distro Y, distro Y is negligent to desktop Linux. Red Hat is negligent toward desktop Linux for other reasons. =) Easy now You misread what he said. He said something along the lines of.: Well, the new beta of RedHat obviously has a more improved setup for desktop users than 7.3 did, but I still want to support Mandrake, instead, because they are smaller and could use more help. Having a bad day? --Ray ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau Maybe somebody can post instructions on how to download the beta Linux and how to compile the kernel and set it up. I would appreciate it. I failed to get it right on four attempts. Yes Im in between newbie and novice. But probably closer to newbie.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Warren Togami wrote: On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 13:57, Ray Strode wrote: Easy now You misread what he said. He said something along the lines of.: Well, the new beta of RedHat obviously has a more improved setup for desktop users than 7.3 did, but I still want to support Mandrake, instead, because they are smaller and could use more help. Having a bad day? --Ray How dare you question me! j/j Yeah, a bit stressed out here. I misunderstood Wayne a bit, and perhaps I miscommunicated a bit in last post, I could have made it more clear that I think Mandrake is doing a much better at end-user desktop Linux than Red Hat. I should have also mentioned that I contribute money to both Red Hat and Mandrake, and it is imperative that both companies must not die. ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau Warren Are you joking around? Ive never seen you peeved.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Maybe somebody can post instructions on how to download the beta Linux and how to compile the kernel and set it up. I would appreciate it. I failed to get it right on four attempts. Yes Im in between newbie and novice. But probably closer to newbie. The kernel howto is a good place to start. Expect to make some mistakes the first few times. I compiled about 3 kernels before I got it right, and this was on a 486 taking 4 hours every time :) --Monmotha
[luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
Is this a brand new retail card? If so, may I borrow the card or I will buy one in order to test it myself and be sure it works in Limbo beta. Please let me know where you bought it, and the revision version #. After I figure out this card, I'll build you custom RPM's with kernel drivers that should work in Red Hat 7.3. Thanks Warren. All what I need to know is, which of the NIC cards supported by Red Hat also uses tulip chipset? As I am sure you're aware, it's the chipset that matters. Actually, same NIC cards, even with the same model number, may use different chipsets, or different versions of the same chipset, I have purchased a whole bunch of Linksys cards of exactly the same batch, and have been using them for ages. Corel 1.0 and Red Hat 7.3/Limbo are the only distros that I have had problems with those cards. Tulip, which was initially developed by NASA, is an open-source project. As such, it is incumbent upon the due diligence of each distro to make sure that it can properly detect the various modifications thereof.
Re: [luau] Linksys and Red Hat (Not)
On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 22:23, W. Wayne Liauh wrote: Thanks Warren. All what I need to know is, which of the NIC cards supported by Red Hat also uses tulip chipset? As I am sure you're aware, it's the chipset that matters. Actually, same NIC cards, even with the same model number, may use different chipsets, or different versions of the same chipset, I have purchased a whole bunch of Linksys cards of exactly the same batch, and have been using them for ages. Corel 1.0 and Red Hat 7.3/Limbo are the only distros that I have had problems with those cards. Tulip, which was initially developed by NASA, is an open-source project. As such, it is incumbent upon the due diligence of each distro to make sure that it can properly detect the various modifications thereof. I've bought over 20 Linksys LNE100TX v4.0 and v4.1 cards. The last time I had problems with these cards were with Red Hat 6.2 through 7.1. Since RH 7.2 I've never had any problems. I've also tried the CNET Pro120 and Pro200 cards which are tulip controlled. CNET's in my experience have been terrible quality cards that would often go bad after a few weeks or months of use. Some you wouldn't realize were bad because they were still working, but at 10% speed and spewing hundreds of bad MAC addresses randomly. I tested a few laptops with integrated tulip too, like a Dell Inspiron 8000 IIRC. If you have a tulip card that doesn't work in Red Hat 7.3, I would really like to test it if possible. Warren
