Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Michael Ableyev wrote: > > > This could be a silly question, but have you tried changing your cabling > > from the > > modem to your machine? > > Not only did I do that, but I went and changed my modem... twice. RR's tech > support kept saying that's the cause of the problem. > But anyway that couldn't be the issue as the problem is NOT conistent, at > times I get 2mbps downstream. > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau ### We had a case like this with DSL and Dial up Not Consistent. It turned out to be a junction box two blocks away that was full of water when ever it rained. The tech went against company rules after he came out the third time and drilled a drain hole in the bottom of the junction box. This was three years ago and no problems since. I don't know how rr can be affected by a situation like this, but it could be something similar by the way you describe the issue. -- Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
> This could be a silly question, but have you tried changing your cabling > from the > modem to your machine? Not only did I do that, but I went and changed my modem... twice. RR's tech support kept saying that's the cause of the problem. But anyway that couldn't be the issue as the problem is NOT conistent, at times I get 2mbps downstream.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
It's been almost 2 months and I still have an open trouble ticket, though the frequency of this problem reduced somewhat. This could be a silly question, but have you tried changing your cabling from the modem to your machine? Just a thought. --Ray
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
>The solution? Turn up the power! He went > out and turned up the amp at the street and everything's been fine since. Yep, that's what they did - turn up the power. The only thing different from your case is that nothing got better then. - Original Message - From: "MonMotha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 09:03 Subject: Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router > Warren Togami wrote: > > On Fri, 2002-07-26 at 15:29, MonMotha wrote: > > > >>What kind of cable modem you got (don't need any serial numbers or > >>anything, just a manufacturer and model number if possible, possibly a > >>physical description of the casing)? > >> > >>--MonMotha > >> > > > > > > Hawaii RoadRunner has a mix of three modems that I've seen... > > 1. Original big and white Motorola "Wave" modems with slight overheating > > problems. 10mbit Ethernet interface only. > > 2. Half-size black Motorola "Wave" modems that still have overheating > > problems. 10mbit ethernet interface only. > > 3. DOCSIS (sp?) protocol, can't remember brand name, little and black > > modem that doesn't overheat. USB and 10mbit ethernet interfaces, you > > can choose. > > > > The reason I ask is because I have a 3Com "bullet" (silver-grey in a > streamlined shape) modem. Apparently these modems are really finicky > about signal levels, and I'm one of the few people who has them (most > people around here have an RCA or Motorola Wave modem) so I'm usually > the first one to report problems (as I also tend to watch the line more > closely and I know when it's their problem and not mine). When I was > having repeated problems and RR sent a tech out, he checked the signal > strength and it was too low. The solution? Turn up the power! He went > out and turned up the amp at the street and everything's been fine since. > > So, if you're having problems with intermidtant connectivity and high > packet loss, and you have a 3Com modem, just tell RR to send a tech out > to check signal strength. That's probably what the problem is. > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau >
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
MonMotha wrote: Warren Togami wrote: On Fri, 2002-07-26 at 15:29, MonMotha wrote: What kind of cable modem you got (don't need any serial numbers or anything, just a manufacturer and model number if possible, possibly a physical description of the casing)? --MonMotha Hawaii RoadRunner has a mix of three modems that I've seen... 1. Original big and white Motorola "Wave" modems with slight overheating problems. 10mbit Ethernet interface only. 2. Half-size black Motorola "Wave" modems that still have overheating problems. 10mbit ethernet interface only. 3. DOCSIS (sp?) protocol, can't remember brand name, little and black modem that doesn't overheat. USB and 10mbit ethernet interfaces, you can choose. The reason I ask is because I have a 3Com "bullet" (silver-grey in a streamlined shape) modem. Apparently these modems are really finicky about signal levels, and I'm one of the few people who has them (most people around here have an RCA or Motorola Wave modem) so I'm usually the first one to report problems (as I also tend to watch the line more closely and I know when it's their problem and not mine). When I was having repeated problems and RR sent a tech out, he checked the signal strength and it was too low. The solution? Turn up the power! He went out and turned up the amp at the street and everything's been fine since. So, if you're having problems with intermidtant connectivity and high packet loss, and you have a 3Com modem, just tell RR to send a tech out to check signal strength. That's probably what the problem is. --MonMotha ___ LUAU mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau I just got a new cable modem from RR, it's a General Instrument SURFboard model SB3100. My old Motorola was dropping packets. RR tested it and brought out a new one. It's a beige "bullet" shape, and has a stand to hold it upright, (on edge). Seems to work much better now. Cliff
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Warren Togami wrote: On Fri, 2002-07-26 at 15:29, MonMotha wrote: What kind of cable modem you got (don't need any serial numbers or anything, just a manufacturer and model number if possible, possibly a physical description of the casing)? --MonMotha Hawaii RoadRunner has a mix of three modems that I've seen... 1. Original big and white Motorola "Wave" modems with slight overheating problems. 10mbit Ethernet interface only. 2. Half-size black Motorola "Wave" modems that still have overheating problems. 10mbit ethernet interface only. 3. DOCSIS (sp?) protocol, can't remember brand name, little and black modem that doesn't overheat. USB and 10mbit ethernet interfaces, you can choose. The reason I ask is because I have a 3Com "bullet" (silver-grey in a streamlined shape) modem. Apparently these modems are really finicky about signal levels, and I'm one of the few people who has them (most people around here have an RCA or Motorola Wave modem) so I'm usually the first one to report problems (as I also tend to watch the line more closely and I know when it's their problem and not mine). When I was having repeated problems and RR sent a tech out, he checked the signal strength and it was too low. The solution? Turn up the power! He went out and turned up the amp at the street and everything's been fine since. So, if you're having problems with intermidtant connectivity and high packet loss, and you have a 3Com modem, just tell RR to send a tech out to check signal strength. That's probably what the problem is. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Warren Togami wrote: "move the queue from the cable modem to a linux box" I hope this doesn't require modification of the cable modem, because if so I would not support the publishing of this information. Otherwise if this is only Linux QoS, by all means that is good information and not RR specific. Of course it doesn't. What you do is make sure the linux box doesn't send out data at a rate faster than what the line can handle, thereby assuring that the queue on the cable modem never gets full. You then allow the data to be enqueued at the linux box. It's just Linux QoS. It can be used on any system really, even dialups. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
> What kind of cable modem you got (don't need any serial numbers or > anything, just a manufacturer and model number if possible, possibly a > physical description of the casing)? It's a Toshiba PCX2500. Seems to be the standard modem that Oceanic Cable uses. - Original Message - From: "MonMotha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 15:29 Subject: Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router > > Oh, the reason for my packet loss has been acknowledged by RR (after I > > practically spammed them with connection logs) as a problem > > in the area, although when I called at first they said noone else is > > experiencing problems. I think they just acknowledged it as an > > area problem so they could say they're working on it and get me off their > > backs :/ It's been almost 2 months and I still have an > > open trouble ticket, though the frequency of this problem reduced somewhat. > > There isn't really anything I can do about it (according > > to them). > > > > As for that Wiki, I think it would be a most interesting reading! Warren: > > How about it? > > > > What kind of cable modem you got (don't need any serial numbers or > anything, just a manufacturer and model number if possible, possibly a > physical description of the casing)? > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau >
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
On Fri, 2002-07-26 at 15:29, MonMotha wrote: > What kind of cable modem you got (don't need any serial numbers or > anything, just a manufacturer and model number if possible, possibly a > physical description of the casing)? > > --MonMotha > Hawaii RoadRunner has a mix of three modems that I've seen... 1. Original big and white Motorola "Wave" modems with slight overheating problems. 10mbit Ethernet interface only. 2. Half-size black Motorola "Wave" modems that still have overheating problems. 10mbit ethernet interface only. 3. DOCSIS (sp?) protocol, can't remember brand name, little and black modem that doesn't overheat. USB and 10mbit ethernet interfaces, you can choose. Over the years I've had the modem changed 8 times, once because the modem burned itself out with smoke coming out the top, the other majority was when the signal in my area was very poor and they kept changing it in an effort to avoid fixing the area wiring (they eventually fixed the area wiring). I have only personally had the white and black "Wave" modems and not the smaller one at home. The techs once said that they like the earlier modems because they can take it anywhere on the island, plug it in at someone's house (if their wiring is good) and use their Internet with no problem. This cannot be done with the newer modem, they said. I once asked an Oceanic cable executive if this was against the ToS, and he said no, but it probably wouldn't work because many houses without RR have high enough quality internal wiring to have enough signal. I tried the modem in other people's houses twice 2 years ago, but haven't since and I have no plans to do it again. Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the policy to forbid this since then. I personally wouldn't mind.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
On Fri, 2002-07-26 at 15:00, Michael Ableyev wrote: > > Oh, the reason for my packet loss has been acknowledged by RR (after I > practically spammed them with connection logs) as a problem > in the area, although when I called at first they said noone else is > experiencing problems. I think they just acknowledged it as an > area problem so they could say they're working on it and get me off their > backs :/ It's been almost 2 months and I still have an > open trouble ticket, though the frequency of this problem reduced somewhat. > There isn't really anything I can do about it (according > to them). I originally had severe packet loss and reliability problems with RoadRunner. It took a while for RR to admit (after my 5th modem replacement) that the signal in my area was poor. A few weeks later they finally replaced all the wiring my area and things have been much better since. However, despite this I do not consider RR to be reliable enough for a commercial web/e-mail server at $200 a month. I rather do a co-located server with similar rates and much better reliability and bandwidth. This is exactly what I intend on doing soon.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
On Fri, 2002-07-26 at 08:56, MonMotha wrote: > > Well, if you weren't uploading at the time, there was no cause for the > extreme packet loss on your end. I have seen upwards of 40% on my line, > but it was usually them doing "maintainance" (and it was scheduled for a > week in advance, so I believe them). However, if you see heavy packet > loss while you're uploading, there's a reason. The reason of course is > that when the line is maxed and you still want to send more, the device > just has to drop the packet once the queue gets full. > > This is why you commonly see terrible download speeds when uploading on > cabel modems. The TCP acks are being dropped, and the other end throttles. > > This is why people move the queue from the cable modem (which is usually > just a simple FIFO) to one one a linux box. The linux box can run a > different queue discipline that can prioritize packets much more > effectively. For example, give all TCP ACKs top end of the queue > priority to keep the downloads going at an acceptable level. > > More info availabel upon request, again ask warren to have me make a > wiki (I don't want to put up a wiki that RR wouldn't like, that's what > FreeNet is for :) > > --MonMotha "move the queue from the cable modem to a linux box" I hope this doesn't require modification of the cable modem, because if so I would not support the publishing of this information. Otherwise if this is only Linux QoS, by all means that is good information and not RR specific.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Oh, the reason for my packet loss has been acknowledged by RR (after I practically spammed them with connection logs) as a problem in the area, although when I called at first they said noone else is experiencing problems. I think they just acknowledged it as an area problem so they could say they're working on it and get me off their backs :/ It's been almost 2 months and I still have an open trouble ticket, though the frequency of this problem reduced somewhat. There isn't really anything I can do about it (according to them). As for that Wiki, I think it would be a most interesting reading! Warren: How about it? What kind of cable modem you got (don't need any serial numbers or anything, just a manufacturer and model number if possible, possibly a physical description of the casing)? --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
> Well, if you weren't uploading at the time, there was no cause for the > extreme packet loss on your end. I have seen upwards of 40% on my line, > but it was usually them doing "maintainance" (and it was scheduled for a > week in advance, so I believe them). However, if you see heavy packet > loss while you're uploading, there's a reason. The reason of course is > that when the line is maxed and you still want to send more, the device > just has to drop the packet once the queue gets full. > > This is why you commonly see terrible download speeds when uploading on > cabel modems. The TCP acks are being dropped, and the other end throttles. > > This is why people move the queue from the cable modem (which is usually > just a simple FIFO) to one one a linux box. The linux box can run a > different queue discipline that can prioritize packets much more > effectively. For example, give all TCP ACKs top end of the queue > priority to keep the downloads going at an acceptable level. > > More info availabel upon request, again ask warren to have me make a > wiki (I don't want to put up a wiki that RR wouldn't like, that's what > FreeNet is for :) > > --MonMotha Oh, the reason for my packet loss has been acknowledged by RR (after I practically spammed them with connection logs) as a problem in the area, although when I called at first they said noone else is experiencing problems. I think they just acknowledged it as an area problem so they could say they're working on it and get me off their backs :/ It's been almost 2 months and I still have an open trouble ticket, though the frequency of this problem reduced somewhat. There isn't really anything I can do about it (according to them). As for that Wiki, I think it would be a most interesting reading! Warren: How about it?
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Michael Ableyev wrote: I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving I'm on rr and I've been running both, http server and ftp.. and i've been doing it for a while too. While the http server doesn't generate much traffic at all, my ftp server gets pretty busy sometimes (500mb+ video files). So far they've done nothing like what you're saying. Perhaps it's because neither of my servers is running on the correct port? But then (I didn't know u can't setup ftp on rr) I had a connection problem some time ago where I'd get terrible packet loss. So, after several calls to RR's tech support, a level 3 tech called me to "resolve" the issue. He started off by reading a list of my connections mentioning those with significant bandwidth usage. Another words, he tried to pin my packet loss (today) on the fact that I uploaded over a gig yesterday. At that point I gave him a long lecture on privacy invasion followed by a request for technical explanation of why exactly I'm having a problem. The interesting thing is that in the process I did explain that I'm running an ftp server and he said nothing about it. Well, if you weren't uploading at the time, there was no cause for the extreme packet loss on your end. I have seen upwards of 40% on my line, but it was usually them doing "maintainance" (and it was scheduled for a week in advance, so I believe them). However, if you see heavy packet loss while you're uploading, there's a reason. The reason of course is that when the line is maxed and you still want to send more, the device just has to drop the packet once the queue gets full. This is why you commonly see terrible download speeds when uploading on cabel modems. The TCP acks are being dropped, and the other end throttles. This is why people move the queue from the cable modem (which is usually just a simple FIFO) to one one a linux box. The linux box can run a different queue discipline that can prioritize packets much more effectively. For example, give all TCP ACKs top end of the queue priority to keep the downloads going at an acceptable level. More info availabel upon request, again ask warren to have me make a wiki (I don't want to put up a wiki that RR wouldn't like, that's what FreeNet is for :) --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Mitchel Kagawa wrote: We have a commercial RR account and I believe we pay ~$90 /month with 1 static IP. This is for their basic buisness account @ $80 and $10 extra for the static IP. We also have a DSL account with Lava.net for our e-mail server and other servers and such. The DSL line only nets us 1.544mb/384kb which is slow compared to RR and is approximately the same price providing we don't go over our alloted bandwith... We needed the extra speed that RR provided as well as the uncapped bandwith because we download large files from MHPCC daily sometimes as much as 2gigs/day. With RR we have been able to achieve download speeds 7 to 8 mb/sec (close to the theoretical limits of the modem itself). 300 meg files now take minutes compared to the hours we used to wait for DSL. So as far as speed is concerned RR is definately the winner. As far as reliability goes DSL is the winner there... We have only lost our connection maybe 4 times last year. compared to 2-3 times /month with RR. This is why we keep our servers on DSL. ~MK Seems that RR cable service varies a LOT from region to region. I know in some places they are REALLY picky about the no servers thing, while in others they mostly don't care. As I said, the commercial/business RR accounts here are very high price. For all but the low end 256/256 it's usually cheaper for me to just get people a fractional T1. The up front costs are higher, but the reliability is higher. It's odd though, I've only had my modem go down for any extended period of time twice in the year I've had it. Once someone cut a line and the other time the amp needed to be turned up at the street. Every once in a while they take it down for an hour or so for maintainance, but that's usually at like 2:00 in the morning and only people like me notice it. Obviously that's unacceptable for a web server though, so that's why I go with the fractional T1s as they cost about the same amount usually. Also, RR business here only goes up to about T1 speeds at their top end (and they charge you almost as much or sometimes more than I can get a T1 for). Anything more than 1.544 symmetric and you have to get a "real" line through the telephone company (and pay big $$$ as you're getting a fractional T3 or sometiems you can convince them to put in the rarely-seen-but-still-exists T2. DSL around here is horribly unreliable due to the phone company, but if you look around you can get it dirt cheap. I'm in the process of waiting for the phone company to install a $80/mo 1.5/768 DSL line with a commercial ToS. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dan George wrote: > > On Thursday 25 July 2002 17:44, you wrote: > > Dan George wrote: > > > I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > > > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > > > when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > > > 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > > > graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > > > 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > > > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > > > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > > > 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > > > You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > > > you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > > > # > > > > Hmmm... > > > > > > A subscriber should not run a server on a rr or DSL line. If you want to > > run a server I will be happy to provide you a T1 service for a fair > > price. > > >True Al >But most of us are just getting our certs and cannot afford a > $2000 Cisco Router or a T-1 line whenever we are already spending > $10k on classes and have to work a full time job in the process. If there > was a poor mans server site than sign me up. But I really have a bad > taste in my mouth whenever business's try to capitalize on the last dime > I have in my pocket whenever I have a wife and two kids to feed. Hawaii > wasnt the smartest move my wife decided on. Coming from a near > 6 figure annual income in CA , I guess she thought I was invicible and > decided to move back home here. Ive been here two years and seen > nothing but crooks in government. A regular Mayberry RFD on the dark > side. For every pot hole I hit reminds me of that fact daily. Yes, I would > move back but not to lose my wife and kids in the process. I like the people > here thought quite a bit. Like Warren and the gang. We are just helping each > other get through the hard times. > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau # Good idea. I will talk to the guys involved and see if we can setup a low cost server site for Linux/Unix users from the list. We had trouble last year with a band width abuser who was sub leasing space off an unmetered DSL line. We terminated him and he's probably moved on with some other ISP who is being abused and doesn't realize it yet. Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
On Thursday 25 July 2002 17:44, you wrote: > Dan George wrote: > > I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > > when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > > 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > > graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > > 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > > 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > > You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > > you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > # > > Hmmm... > > > A subscriber should not run a server on a rr or DSL line. If you want to > run a server I will be happy to provide you a T1 service for a fair > price. > True Al But most of us are just getting our certs and cannot afford a $2000 Cisco Router or a T-1 line whenever we are already spending $10k on classes and have to work a full time job in the process. If there was a poor mans server site than sign me up. But I really have a bad taste in my mouth whenever business's try to capitalize on the last dime I have in my pocket whenever I have a wife and two kids to feed. Hawaii wasnt the smartest move my wife decided on. Coming from a near 6 figure annual income in CA , I guess she thought I was invicible and decided to move back home here. Ive been here two years and seen nothing but crooks in government. A regular Mayberry RFD on the dark side. For every pot hole I hit reminds me of that fact daily. Yes, I would move back but not to lose my wife and kids in the process. I like the people here thought quite a bit. Like Warren and the gang. We are just helping each other get through the hard times.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
The guy is very credible. Oh maybe he was just misinformed then. --Ray
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
The guy is very credible. On Wednesday 24 July 2002 01:15, you wrote: > Dan George wrote: > >I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > >packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > >when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > >1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > >graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > > I've never been contacted and i've been doing it for years. > > >2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > > I routinely get between 600k/sec-1.1Mb/sec from videl and other fast sites, > or do you mean upstream? > > >3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > >You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > >you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > As far as I can tell it isn't a violation. I spent a couple hours one day > reading through all the EULA's and FAQs and things on roadrunner sites. > > The only thing I remember reading at all is they won't support you doing > it. They won't help you. > > Maybe the flex guy was spreading fud? > > --Ray > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Im willing to share time, that is going home to apt or whatever helping each member have what they need in networking services. Just as I am weak in Linux, Im strong in cabling and setting up LANs. Ive done it for year but only started on Linux when RH7.1 came out. Could trade services for hardware or whatever. I think its great working on a team effort. But alot of you all are already where you want to be and your time is valueble of course. I would like to attend a Samba class tonight but couldnt. Any other way I can support the group then let me know. On Wednesday 24 July 2002 20:44, you wrote: > I'll second Dan's comment > > Ben > > On Wednesday 24 July 2002 07:26 pm, you wrote: > > Dan George wrote: > > > Im all ears > > > > > >>If anyone wants suggestions on hiding a NAT LAN I can give some. It's > > >>possible to make it pretty darn difficult to detect. > > >> > > >>--MonMotha > > > > A wiki would probably be more appropriate, with Warren's permission. > > > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
I would follow MonMothas advise for setting up a firewall with a Linux router to keep out unwanted sniffers. On Wednesday 24 July 2002 19:43, you wrote: > I switched to DSL so I wouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Sandi and I > run our our mail and web server for personal use and it would suck to have > RR shut us down and not get e-mail until I got a new provider! > > Dusty > > > I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > > when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > > 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > >graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > > 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > > 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > >You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > >you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > > > On Wednesday 24 July 2002 09:49, you wrote: > >> >Message: 1 > >> > >> From: Dan George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >> >Interesting. So you can actually run a server at home without being > >> > detected by RR. Would like to know more details on that one. > >> > >> The USB-USB networking is available in the lastest 2.4 kernel > >> (2.4.18). You need to build a new kernel with the feature in by > >> selecting > >> experimental in 'Code Maturity Options' from make menuconfig. > >> This will make 'USB-USB Networking cable device support' appear > >> in the USB section. > >> > >> Your USB port then becomes usable as /dev/eth1. > >> > >> Of course, this by itself doesn't give you firewalling/masquerading > >> capability > >> that makes your internal LAN undetectable by RR. But it does give you > >> 2 network ports (one internal & one external). > >> > >> Then it's a matter of installing iptables and using MonMotha's scripts > >> to do masquerading. See: > >> > >> http://www.mplug.org/phpwiki/index.php/MonMothaReferenceGuide > >> > >> Tim Burgess > >> > >> ___ > >> LUAU mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau > > > > ___ > > LUAU mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dan George wrote: > > I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > # Hmmm... A subscriber should not run a server on a rr or DSL line. If you want to run a server I will be happy to provide you a T1 service for a fair price. Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
I believe verizon currently has a $35/m deal for DSL (768/128) with a dynamic ip. Still usable with someting like dyndns.org, though not if you're hosting your own domain. Actually, I host two domains off my roadrunner account. If you are interested in details, there was a discussion about this in March under the subject "Apache/DNS setup": http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/pipermail/luau/2002-March --Ray
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
> $199 is too much. I pay like $55 for my DSL (768/128) with 1 > static IP I believe verizon currently has a $35/m deal for DSL (768/128) with a dynamic ip. Still usable with someting like dyndns.org, though not if you're hosting your own domain.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
> I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving I'm on rr and I've been running both, http server and ftp.. and i've been doing it for a while too. While the http server doesn't generate much traffic at all, my ftp server gets pretty busy sometimes (500mb+ video files). So far they've done nothing like what you're saying. Perhaps it's because neither of my servers is running on the correct port? But then (I didn't know u can't setup ftp on rr) I had a connection problem some time ago where I'd get terrible packet loss. So, after several calls to RR's tech support, a level 3 tech called me to "resolve" the issue. He started off by reading a list of my connections mentioning those with significant bandwidth usage. Another words, he tried to pin my packet loss (today) on the fact that I uploaded over a gig yesterday. At that point I gave him a long lecture on privacy invasion followed by a request for technical explanation of why exactly I'm having a problem. The interesting thing is that in the process I did explain that I'm running an ftp server and he said nothing about it. - Original Message - From: "Dan George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 18:56 Subject: Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router > I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > On Wednesday 24 July 2002 09:49, you wrote: > > >Message: 1 > > > > From: Dan George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Interesting. So you can actually run a server at home without being > > > detected by RR. Would like to know more details on that one. > > > > The USB-USB networking is available in the lastest 2.4 kernel (2.4.18). > > You need to build a new kernel with the feature in by selecting > > experimental in 'Code Maturity Options' from make menuconfig. > > This will make 'USB-USB Networking cable device support' appear > > in the USB section. > > > > Your USB port then becomes usable as /dev/eth1. > > > > Of course, this by itself doesn't give you firewalling/masquerading > > capability > > that makes your internal LAN undetectable by RR. But it does give you > > 2 network ports (one internal & one external). > > > > Then it's a matter of installing iptables and using MonMotha's scripts > > to do masquerading. See: > > > > http://www.mplug.org/phpwiki/index.php/MonMothaReferenceGuide > > > > Tim Burgess > > > > ___ > > LUAU mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau >
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
We have a commercial RR account and I believe we pay ~$90 /month with 1 static IP. This is for their basic buisness account @ $80 and $10 extra for the static IP. We also have a DSL account with Lava.net for our e-mail server and other servers and such. The DSL line only nets us 1.544mb/384kb which is slow compared to RR and is approximately the same price providing we don't go over our alloted bandwith... We needed the extra speed that RR provided as well as the uncapped bandwith because we download large files from MHPCC daily sometimes as much as 2gigs/day. With RR we have been able to achieve download speeds 7 to 8 mb/sec (close to the theoretical limits of the modem itself). 300 meg files now take minutes compared to the hours we used to wait for DSL. So as far as speed is concerned RR is definately the winner. As far as reliability goes DSL is the winner there... We have only lost our connection maybe 4 times last year. compared to 2-3 times /month with RR. This is why we keep our servers on DSL. ~MK
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Ray Strode wrote: As far as I can tell it isn't a violation. I spent a couple hours one day reading through all the EULA's and FAQs and things on roadrunner sites. The only thing I remember reading at all is they won't support you doing it. They won't help you. Maybe the flex guy was spreading fud? --Ray I had some problems with RR a few weeks ago, and called them. They pretty much said exactly that. They knew I had the Linksys, and I was on my own as far as support for the home network, and they had me take it out of the line while they ran their tests. The problem ended up being their old cable modem, and they gave me a new one. Cliff
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Wow! 3.6Mb for Linux, I'll run the fix on my Win side and see how high I get. Thanks Kevin On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 05:41, Dustin Cross wrote: > You should check out http://www.pcpitstop.com and their bandwidth test > (http://www.pcpitstop.com/internet/Bandwidth.asp). I noticed I was getting > 3.1Mb speeds on my Linux laptop and 1.2Mb speeds on our Win2k > workstations. After you complete the bandwidth test they have a little > java app that will tweak the your registry and set the "receive buffer > size" to either 64240 or 32120 or back to the default. When I set it to > 64240 our win2k speeds on RR jumped to 3.7Mb. > > http://www.pcpitstop.com/pcpitstop/autofix.asp?file=IntSpeed.hta > > Dusty
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
You should check out http://www.pcpitstop.com and their bandwidth test (http://www.pcpitstop.com/internet/Bandwidth.asp). I noticed I was getting 3.1Mb speeds on my Linux laptop and 1.2Mb speeds on our Win2k workstations. After you complete the bandwidth test they have a little java app that will tweak the your registry and set the "receive buffer size" to either 64240 or 32120 or back to the default. When I set it to 64240 our win2k speeds on RR jumped to 3.7Mb. http://www.pcpitstop.com/pcpitstop/autofix.asp?file=IntSpeed.hta Dusty > I use 2wire.com's bandwidth meter to gauge my RR speeds. I don't know > how accurate it is,but I can average 1.8Mbs in Windows2k and 2.5Mbs in > Mandrake 8.2(I once hit 2.9Mbs). I swore I read that our Hawaii RR is > capped at 2Mbs. > Anyone have a more accurate way to test? > > On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 04:58, MonMotha wrote: >> Dustin Cross wrote: >> > DOH! >> > >> > I hate it when people do this! Data communications are always done >> > in bits! >> > >> > A T-1 is 1.544 Mbits/sec not ~193KBytes/sec right? >> > >> > Dusty >> > >> > >> >> >> A T-1 is 1.544 Mbit/sec. >> >> 1.500Mbit/sec is 192 kByte/sec >> >> See >> http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci214198,00.html >> for the speed of varios lines. >> >> --MonMotha >> >> ___ >> LUAU mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau > > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Mon I am not complaining about the cost. But for me as a power user that is too much. I run my own mail server so I don't have to deal with other peoples limits or call and complain when their server goes down. I don't make any money from my servers, they are just for my joy and learning. $199 is too much. I pay like $55 for my DSL (768/128) with 1 static IP and flex doesn't care what I do with it so long as it's legal. I never worry about my mail server and I don't complain that Sandi has over 1GB of mail on it. Dusty > Dustin Cross wrote: >> Aloha, >> >> I just set-up a business account with RR and we are getting ~3.7Mb >> down ~1Mb up. The installer said the system was capped at 4Mb. That >> costs $199 per month and comes with 5 static IPs and we can have >> servers. >> > > That's a helluva lot cheaper than it is here. That much here will get > you 512/512 and 2 static IPs I believe. > >> An OC-12 is 622Mb per sec. An OC-3 is 155Mb/sec. When I was at >> Level3 Communications they were testing OC-192s working with Cisco to >> get OC-768. An OC-1 would be 53Mb, but we start at OC-3. The >> bandwidth is out there. >> > > You're right, I confused the OC-3 with the OC-12. Need to learn my OC > carrier speeds better. Either way, the bandwidth is tehre, but not > cheap. > >> I have heard rumors about RR and other cable companies shutting down >> users, but have not experienced it myself. I did have some friends in >> San Diego kicked off @home for running servers. And other friends who >> lost incomming port 80 from @home when NIMDA was big. I don't want to >> gamble with having my mail server down so I use DSL and a provider who >> doesn't care. I do miss the speed I gave up in the switch though. >> > > The only time I've actually seen RR shut someone down was for uncapping > their modem. @home was much more restrictive than RR. > >> Dusty > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
I use 2wire.com's bandwidth meter to gauge my RR speeds. I don't know how accurate it is,but I can average 1.8Mbs in Windows2k and 2.5Mbs in Mandrake 8.2(I once hit 2.9Mbs). I swore I read that our Hawaii RR is capped at 2Mbs. Anyone have a more accurate way to test? On Thu, 2002-07-25 at 04:58, MonMotha wrote: > Dustin Cross wrote: > > DOH! > > > > I hate it when people do this! Data communications are always done in bits! > > > > A T-1 is 1.544 Mbits/sec not ~193KBytes/sec right? > > > > Dusty > > > > > > > A T-1 is 1.544 Mbit/sec. > > 1.500Mbit/sec is 192 kByte/sec > > See > http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci214198,00.html > for the speed of varios lines. > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
I know. What I was trying to say is, a T-1 is 1.544Mb and no one refers to it as 192KB. All data communication outside the somputer is done in bits per sec. Dusty > Dustin Cross wrote: >> DOH! >> >> I hate it when people do this! Data communications are always done in >> bits! >> >> A T-1 is 1.544 Mbits/sec not ~193KBytes/sec right? >> >> Dusty >> >> > > > A T-1 is 1.544 Mbit/sec. > > 1.500Mbit/sec is 192 kByte/sec > > See > http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci214198,00.html > for the speed of varios lines. > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Yea, this is Oceanic's top commercial account. They allow servers and even do DNS is you need it. Dusty >> Dusty > > That is actually fairly cheap for that level of service. Do you know > if they allow any commercial use, like web servers? (Why else would > they give 5 static IP's...) > > > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
- Original Message - From: "Dustin Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router > Aloha, > > I just set-up a business account with RR and we are getting ~3.7Mb down > ~1Mb up. The installer said the system was capped at 4Mb. That costs $199 > per month and comes with 5 static IPs and we can have servers. > > > Dusty That is actually fairly cheap for that level of service. Do you know if they allow any commercial use, like web servers? (Why else would they give 5 static IP's...)
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dustin Cross wrote: Aloha, I just set-up a business account with RR and we are getting ~3.7Mb down ~1Mb up. The installer said the system was capped at 4Mb. That costs $199 per month and comes with 5 static IPs and we can have servers. That's a helluva lot cheaper than it is here. That much here will get you 512/512 and 2 static IPs I believe. An OC-12 is 622Mb per sec. An OC-3 is 155Mb/sec. When I was at Level3 Communications they were testing OC-192s working with Cisco to get OC-768. An OC-1 would be 53Mb, but we start at OC-3. The bandwidth is out there. You're right, I confused the OC-3 with the OC-12. Need to learn my OC carrier speeds better. Either way, the bandwidth is tehre, but not cheap. I have heard rumors about RR and other cable companies shutting down users, but have not experienced it myself. I did have some friends in San Diego kicked off @home for running servers. And other friends who lost incomming port 80 from @home when NIMDA was big. I don't want to gamble with having my mail server down so I use DSL and a provider who doesn't care. I do miss the speed I gave up in the switch though. The only time I've actually seen RR shut someone down was for uncapping their modem. @home was much more restrictive than RR. Dusty --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dustin Cross wrote: DOH! I hate it when people do this! Data communications are always done in bits! A T-1 is 1.544 Mbits/sec not ~193KBytes/sec right? Dusty A T-1 is 1.544 Mbit/sec. 1.500Mbit/sec is 192 kByte/sec See http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci214198,00.html for the speed of varios lines. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Aloha, I just set-up a business account with RR and we are getting ~3.7Mb down ~1Mb up. The installer said the system was capped at 4Mb. That costs $199 per month and comes with 5 static IPs and we can have servers. An OC-12 is 622Mb per sec. An OC-3 is 155Mb/sec. When I was at Level3 Communications they were testing OC-192s working with Cisco to get OC-768. An OC-1 would be 53Mb, but we start at OC-3. The bandwidth is out there. I have heard rumors about RR and other cable companies shutting down users, but have not experienced it myself. I did have some friends in San Diego kicked off @home for running servers. And other friends who lost incomming port 80 from @home when NIMDA was big. I don't want to gamble with having my mail server down so I use DSL and a provider who doesn't care. I do miss the speed I gave up in the switch though. Dusty > I dunno what you guys are capped at out there, but I hear it's even > higher than what I'm at here. > > Here I get 2.5/.5 for $45/m. That amount of bandwidth probably costs > them (even at the rate they buy it) about $1000/m. They gamble that > you won't use it all most of the time. When you run a server, you > mess that up. If you want to run a server, they offer "commercial > contracts" where you can do whatever you want as long as it's not > illegal (same thing you get with like a T1). These contracts cost a > LOT more (usually around $200-$700/m), but still less than buying a > "real line" from the phone company. The reason they cost more is that > you're using more. > > Unfortunately, the equipment to run at these insanely high speeds is > expensive. An OC-12 for example runs 155Mbit full-duplex over a single > pair of fiber at insane distances. That laser has to switch > 155,000,000 times per second. Any volunteers to build it cheap? The > telcos inflate their prices a LOT, which is why they're so rich...if > you guys have competitive phone service your prices are probably lower > than my > examples as that's what it is in Indiana where we have a baby bell, but > they still have to make money, pay their workers, and buy equipment. > Hawaii is also a little more bandwidth rich than Indiana (it's a hub > between west coast, Japan, and .au), but it's still expensive. > > RR isn't being mean; they're being realistic. Normal residental use is > VERY bursty. Small business usage is less, but still so. They count > on this to give you the kind of connection you get at decent prices. > Try to get your connection from the phone company; it won't be cheap. > If RR let you do whatever you wanted on their $50/m residential > contracts, they'd be out of business in less than an hour probably. > > Also, remember that cable modems are a shared bandwidth medium. Think > of them as a huge coax ethernet segment. In fact, they even run a LLC > protcol similar to ethernet! When one person uses a disproportionate > amount of bandwidht, it slows the others down. This can cause > nightmares for the cable co as they have to go splitting subnets. > > Here's an idea though, and this might actually be possible since you > guys are on small islands and seem to be fairly well organized. Use > various devices to set up a big public access network. Start off with > T1s and upgrade as you go. Eventually you'll become so big, that the > telco might be willing to PEER with you. This ain't buying bandwidht > folks, this means you ARE another telco (expect them to fight it at > first though; telcos HATE competition). Telephone companies have no > choice but to peer with others, otherwise they're of no use. Ideas for > links: > > *RONJA: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/ronja/ > *Directional Microwave, 802.11b/g, or possibly 802.11a > *If two people live next to each other or close enough where buying a > right of way is feasable, go all out and run fiber! > > Unfortunately the startup costs are EXTREMELY high (and you need some > dedicated individuals to maintain it), but it's amazing what you can do > when you have a community owned network. You can run native IPv6 on > it and offer VoIP services. Every telephone can have it's own phone > number, or be tied to a central one for the house. Built in voicemail, > caller ID, etc. The possibilities are endless. > > Extreme idea. You bet, I probably wouldn't even bother trying. But > that gives you a good idea of what roadrunner and others are trying to > do. It's not easy to provide high speed internet at reasonable prices. > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
DOH! I hate it when people do this! Data communications are always done in bits! A T-1 is 1.544 Mbits/sec not ~193KBytes/sec right? Dusty > My rates are more between 300KB/sec through 600KB/sec, but I am not > complaining. That is still considerably faster than T1, with a 5% > price tag per month.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
- Original Message - From: "MonMotha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router > There's a reason they prohibit servers. > > I dunno what you guys are capped at out there, but I hear it's even > higher than what I'm at here. > > Here I get 2.5/.5 for $45/m. That amount of bandwidth probably costs > them (even at the rate they buy it) about $1000/m. They gamble that you > won't use it all most of the time. When you run a server, you mess that > up. If you want to run a server, they offer "commercial contracts" > where you can do whatever you want as long as it's not illegal (same > thing you get with like a T1). These contracts cost a LOT more (usually > around $200-$700/m), but still less than buying a "real line" from the > phone company. The reason they cost more is that you're using more. It isn't entirely clear, but I've seen documents here saying that our bandwidth cap is either 2mbit/384kbit or 3mbit/384kbit. I have confirmed through experience that 384kbit is our upload cap, but I often see wildly varying download speeds sometimes exceeding 3mbit. Whatever it is, I am happy with my download speed because it is usually far faster than a T1, but very low price. No DSL company can compare, with the exception of $500/month 7.1mbit DSL from a local provider that I shouldn't mention by name. > Here's an idea though, and this might actually be possible since you > guys are on small islands and seem to be fairly well organized. Use > various devices to set up a big public access network. Start off with > T1s and upgrade as you go. Eventually you'll become so big, that the > telco might be willing to PEER with you. This ain't buying bandwidht > folks, this means you ARE another telco (expect them to fight it at > first though; telcos HATE competition). Telephone companies have no > choice but to peer with others, otherwise they're of no use. Ideas for > links: > > *RONJA: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/ronja/ > *Directional Microwave, 802.11b/g, or possibly 802.11a > *If two people live next to each other or close enough where buying a > right of way is feasable, go all out and run fiber! Our (Linux) population density is too thin for wired connections, while I highly doubt we can convince (normal) people that we're better and more dependable than RoadRunner or the various DSL providers. I don't even think a wireless co-operative would work for most of us, but I'm willing to explore the possibility. Anyone else? > > Unfortunately the startup costs are EXTREMELY high (and you need some > dedicated individuals to maintain it), but it's amazing what you can do > when you have a community owned network. You can run native IPv6 on it > and offer VoIP services. Every telephone can have it's own phone > number, or be tied to a central one for the house. Built in voicemail, > caller ID, etc. The possibilities are endless. > > Extreme idea. You bet, I probably wouldn't even bother trying. But > that gives you a good idea of what roadrunner and others are trying to > do. It's not easy to provide high speed internet at reasonable prices. > Bottom line... if you want to safely run any website that more than you and several friends will use (extremely low bandwidth), you should use a virtual host provider. There are many extremely cheap virtual host providers out there where you can pay $7-25 per month for varying levels of service. I will soon run my own co-located server at a local ISP, sharing monthly costs with some of my trusted friends. This will be used for several low bandwidth business sites, along with some personal sites. Anyone else interested in joining a co-operative dedicated server for both personal and commercial purposes?
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Warren Togami wrote: 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... I've never been contacted and i've been doing it for years. Ditto. I've had all sorts of servers up and down over the past year since I got mine (this is in Indianapolis). No problems whatsoever. 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. I routinely get between 600k/sec-1.1Mb/sec from videl and other fast sites, or do you mean upstream? My rates are more between 300KB/sec through 600KB/sec, but I am not complaining. That is still considerably faster than T1, with a 5% price tag per month. I get rock solid 220kB/sec up, ~50kB/sec down, it's only gone up since I got the line. 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. You will have to use your wifes name and new address before you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. As far as I can tell it isn't a violation. I spent a couple hours one day reading through all the EULA's and FAQs and things on roadrunner sites Ditto. Read the policies here: http://www.hawaii.rr.com/memberservices/policies.htm I have again read through the three documents here, finding nothing forbidding NAT. Indy RR officially forbids NAT, but they'll sell you a Linksys router right from their website, but they won't help you configure it. This following paragraph from http://help.twcable.com/html/twc_sub_agreement.html does officially disallow websites. However I have been told unofficially by an installer that as long as you don't abuse your bandwidth and attract attention, they don't care. Use common sense and you're fine. Same thing I was told. Don't piss them off, they won't piss you off. The only problem is that they always have the ABILITY to do it under the ToS if they want to. If you are doign anything other than a small personal thing I'd reccomend getting a business account. The guy I talked to here concurred. 5. Subscriber Conduct. (a) The ISP Service as offered and provided under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only. Subscriber will not resell or redistribute (whether for a fee or otherwise) the ISP Service, or any portion thereof, or otherwise charge others to use the ISP Service, or any portion thereof. Subscriber agrees not to use the ISP Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites (other than as expressly permitted as part of the ISP Service) or for any enterprise purpose whether or not the enterprise is directed toward making a profit. They can't sell you $50/m service and not say that. See my other lengthy post for the explaination. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
- Original Message - From: "Ray Strode" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router > >1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > >graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > > > I've never been contacted and i've been doing it for years. Ditto. > > >2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > > > I routinely get between 600k/sec-1.1Mb/sec from videl and other fast sites, > or do you mean upstream? My rates are more between 300KB/sec through 600KB/sec, but I am not complaining. That is still considerably faster than T1, with a 5% price tag per month. > > >3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > >You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > >you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > > As far as I can tell it isn't a violation. I spent a couple hours one day > reading through all the EULA's and FAQs and things on roadrunner sites Ditto. Read the policies here: http://www.hawaii.rr.com/memberservices/policies.htm I have again read through the three documents here, finding nothing forbidding NAT. This following paragraph from http://help.twcable.com/html/twc_sub_agreement.html does officially disallow websites. However I have been told unofficially by an installer that as long as you don't abuse your bandwidth and attract attention, they don't care. Use common sense and you're fine. 5. Subscriber Conduct. (a) The ISP Service as offered and provided under this Agreement is a residential service offered for personal, non-commercial use only. Subscriber will not resell or redistribute (whether for a fee or otherwise) the ISP Service, or any portion thereof, or otherwise charge others to use the ISP Service, or any portion thereof. Subscriber agrees not to use the ISP Service for operation as an internet service provider, for the hosting of websites (other than as expressly permitted as part of the ISP Service) or for any enterprise purpose whether or not the enterprise is directed toward making a profit.
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dan George wrote: I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... I've never been contacted and i've been doing it for years. 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. I routinely get between 600k/sec-1.1Mb/sec from videl and other fast sites, or do you mean upstream? 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. You will have to use your wifes name and new address before you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. As far as I can tell it isn't a violation. I spent a couple hours one day reading through all the EULA's and FAQs and things on roadrunner sites. The only thing I remember reading at all is they won't support you doing it. They won't help you. Maybe the flex guy was spreading fud? --Ray
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Just for grins, here is an example of a small town that got it right! The Ruby Ranch Co-op at: < http://www.rric.net> not only beat the telcos at their own game, they show others how to do it. Enjoy, Ben > > > Here's an idea though, and this might actually be possible since you > guys are on small islands and seem to be fairly well organized. Use > various devices to set up a big public access network. Start off with > T1s and upgrade as you go. Eventually you'll become so big, that the > telco might be willing to PEER with you. This ain't buying bandwidht > folks, this means you ARE another telco (expect them to fight it at > first though; telcos HATE competition). Telephone companies have no > choice but to peer with others, otherwise they're of no use. Ideas for > links: > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
I'll second Dan's comment Ben On Wednesday 24 July 2002 07:26 pm, you wrote: > Dan George wrote: > > Im all ears > > > >>If anyone wants suggestions on hiding a NAT LAN I can give some. It's > >>possible to make it pretty darn difficult to detect. > >> > >>--MonMotha > > A wiki would probably be more appropriate, with Warren's permission. > > --MonMotha >
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dustin Cross wrote: I switched to DSL so I wouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Sandi and I run our our mail and web server for personal use and it would suck to have RR shut us down and not get e-mail until I got a new provider! Dusty There's a reason they prohibit servers. I dunno what you guys are capped at out there, but I hear it's even higher than what I'm at here. Here I get 2.5/.5 for $45/m. That amount of bandwidth probably costs them (even at the rate they buy it) about $1000/m. They gamble that you won't use it all most of the time. When you run a server, you mess that up. If you want to run a server, they offer "commercial contracts" where you can do whatever you want as long as it's not illegal (same thing you get with like a T1). These contracts cost a LOT more (usually around $200-$700/m), but still less than buying a "real line" from the phone company. The reason they cost more is that you're using more. Unfortunately, the equipment to run at these insanely high speeds is expensive. An OC-12 for example runs 155Mbit full-duplex over a single pair of fiber at insane distances. That laser has to switch 155,000,000 times per second. Any volunteers to build it cheap? The telcos inflate their prices a LOT, which is why they're so rich...if you guys have competitive phone service your prices are probably lower than my examples as that's what it is in Indiana where we have a baby bell, but they still have to make money, pay their workers, and buy equipment. Hawaii is also a little more bandwidth rich than Indiana (it's a hub between west coast, Japan, and .au), but it's still expensive. RR isn't being mean; they're being realistic. Normal residental use is VERY bursty. Small business usage is less, but still so. They count on this to give you the kind of connection you get at decent prices. Try to get your connection from the phone company; it won't be cheap. If RR let you do whatever you wanted on their $50/m residential contracts, they'd be out of business in less than an hour probably. Also, remember that cable modems are a shared bandwidth medium. Think of them as a huge coax ethernet segment. In fact, they even run a LLC protcol similar to ethernet! When one person uses a disproportionate amount of bandwidht, it slows the others down. This can cause nightmares for the cable co as they have to go splitting subnets. Here's an idea though, and this might actually be possible since you guys are on small islands and seem to be fairly well organized. Use various devices to set up a big public access network. Start off with T1s and upgrade as you go. Eventually you'll become so big, that the telco might be willing to PEER with you. This ain't buying bandwidht folks, this means you ARE another telco (expect them to fight it at first though; telcos HATE competition). Telephone companies have no choice but to peer with others, otherwise they're of no use. Ideas for links: *RONJA: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/ronja/ *Directional Microwave, 802.11b/g, or possibly 802.11a *If two people live next to each other or close enough where buying a right of way is feasable, go all out and run fiber! Unfortunately the startup costs are EXTREMELY high (and you need some dedicated individuals to maintain it), but it's amazing what you can do when you have a community owned network. You can run native IPv6 on it and offer VoIP services. Every telephone can have it's own phone number, or be tied to a central one for the house. Built in voicemail, caller ID, etc. The possibilities are endless. Extreme idea. You bet, I probably wouldn't even bother trying. But that gives you a good idea of what roadrunner and others are trying to do. It's not easy to provide high speed internet at reasonable prices. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
I switched to DSL so I wouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Sandi and I run our our mail and web server for personal use and it would suck to have RR shut us down and not get e-mail until I got a new provider! Dusty > I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of >graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. >You will have to use your wifes name and new address before >you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > On Wednesday 24 July 2002 09:49, you wrote: >> >Message: 1 >> >> From: Dan George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >Interesting. So you can actually run a server at home without being >> > detected by RR. Would like to know more details on that one. >> >> The USB-USB networking is available in the lastest 2.4 kernel >> (2.4.18). You need to build a new kernel with the feature in by >> selecting >> experimental in 'Code Maturity Options' from make menuconfig. >> This will make 'USB-USB Networking cable device support' appear >> in the USB section. >> >> Your USB port then becomes usable as /dev/eth1. >> >> Of course, this by itself doesn't give you firewalling/masquerading >> capability >> that makes your internal LAN undetectable by RR. But it does give you >> 2 network ports (one internal & one external). >> >> Then it's a matter of installing iptables and using MonMotha's scripts >> to do masquerading. See: >> >> http://www.mplug.org/phpwiki/index.php/MonMothaReferenceGuide >> >> Tim Burgess >> >> ___ >> LUAU mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dan George wrote: Im all ears If anyone wants suggestions on hiding a NAT LAN I can give some. It's possible to make it pretty darn difficult to detect. --MonMotha A wiki would probably be more appropriate, with Warren's permission. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Im all ears On Wednesday 24 July 2002 19:12, you wrote: > Dan George wrote: > > I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their > > packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and > > when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: > > 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of > > graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... > > 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to > > discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with > > just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. > > 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. > > You will have to use your wifes name and new address before > > you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. > > If anyone wants suggestions on hiding a NAT LAN I can give some. It's > possible to make it pretty darn difficult to detect. > > --MonMotha > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Dan George wrote: I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. You will have to use your wifes name and new address before you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. If anyone wants suggestions on hiding a NAT LAN I can give some. It's possible to make it pretty darn difficult to detect. --MonMotha
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
I dont know if anyone here on a RR cable modem has ever had their packet sampled by RR. They check how much traffic your receiving and when they figure your setting up a server at home they do two things: 1. Contact you for an explaination. The fact your downloading a lot of graphics files doesnt cut it anymore because they know... 2. Cutdown your bandwidth to a miserable point where you have to discontinue running a server. I know this from experience with just trying to setup a W2K Adv FTP server for practice only. 3. Cutoff your account completely and put you on a list of violators. You will have to use your wifes name and new address before you can reconnect to RR. This news came from a FLEX guy. On Wednesday 24 July 2002 09:49, you wrote: > >Message: 1 > > From: Dan George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Interesting. So you can actually run a server at home without being > > detected by RR. Would like to know more details on that one. > > The USB-USB networking is available in the lastest 2.4 kernel (2.4.18). > You need to build a new kernel with the feature in by selecting > experimental in 'Code Maturity Options' from make menuconfig. > This will make 'USB-USB Networking cable device support' appear > in the USB section. > > Your USB port then becomes usable as /dev/eth1. > > Of course, this by itself doesn't give you firewalling/masquerading > capability > that makes your internal LAN undetectable by RR. But it does give you > 2 network ports (one internal & one external). > > Then it's a matter of installing iptables and using MonMotha's scripts > to do masquerading. See: > > http://www.mplug.org/phpwiki/index.php/MonMothaReferenceGuide > > Tim Burgess > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
[luau] Re: Configuring Router
Message: 1 From: Dan George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Interesting. So you can actually run a server at home without being detected by RR. Would like to know more details on that one. The USB-USB networking is available in the lastest 2.4 kernel (2.4.18). You need to build a new kernel with the feature in by selecting experimental in 'Code Maturity Options' from make menuconfig. This will make 'USB-USB Networking cable device support' appear in the USB section. Your USB port then becomes usable as /dev/eth1. Of course, this by itself doesn't give you firewalling/masquerading capability that makes your internal LAN undetectable by RR. But it does give you 2 network ports (one internal & one external). Then it's a matter of installing iptables and using MonMotha's scripts to do masquerading. See: http://www.mplug.org/phpwiki/index.php/MonMothaReferenceGuide Tim Burgess
Re: [luau] Re: Configuring Router
Interesting. So you can actually run a server at home without being detected by RR. Would like to know more details on that one. On Tuesday 23 July 2002 11:54 am, you wrote: > > How many use RR and have a router (Linksys) or do you use a computer > >as a router? What are the pros and cons. > > I use a Linux router as well. Probably the same setup that a lot of > other folks do to. Prior to using a Linux, I had a wireless linksys and > a RR cable modem and when something went wrong, it was very hard to > workout what the hell was going wrong when my connection died. > > An unexpected benefit was that my net connection was faster with > Linux. I suspect this is so because the Linksys has a pretty puny > packet processor but I'm not worried about the why. > > The only downside is that you have invest a bit of time getting > it setup. But well worth it in my opinion. > > Addendum: The newer RR cable modems have a USB port which > I'm connected to using the new USB-USB network support in 2.4 > It basically looks like /dev/eth1 to everything else which means you > effectively have a dual-port firewall. > > Tim Burgess > > ___ > LUAU mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/luau
[luau] Re: Configuring Router
How many use RR and have a router (Linksys) or do you use a computer as a router? What are the pros and cons. I use a Linux router as well. Probably the same setup that a lot of other folks do to. Prior to using a Linux, I had a wireless linksys and a RR cable modem and when something went wrong, it was very hard to workout what the hell was going wrong when my connection died. An unexpected benefit was that my net connection was faster with Linux. I suspect this is so because the Linksys has a pretty puny packet processor but I'm not worried about the why. The only downside is that you have invest a bit of time getting it setup. But well worth it in my opinion. Addendum: The newer RR cable modems have a USB port which I'm connected to using the new USB-USB network support in 2.4 It basically looks like /dev/eth1 to everything else which means you effectively have a dual-port firewall. Tim Burgess
