Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] IRC and Help
I'm in #ubuntu quite a lot (remember to say yo yo yo to your friendly parsnip :D) and I do enforce the rules but am not an op. If people tell others to obey the rules / use !ops if they are not compliant then it helps keep things smoother. On Friday, June 4, 2010, Goh Lip g@gmx.com wrote: On 06/04/2010 09:19 AM, Phillip Whiteside wrote: Hi, I've just had a chat with one of those 'very nice people' over on ubuntu about something I saw happen on #ubuntu-beginners the other day, that being a an idiot in the room breaking all the rules for politeness on IRC and also using swear words. On that occasion there were 'OP's in the room and also available who kicked him off (He actually got K-lined from freenode for those who know the difference). Currently /msg chanserv access #lubuntu list will show you the access list. hyperair and elfgoh are both OPs there Whilst I hope that #lubuntu will not get that sort of abuse, could the team think along the lines of how #ubuntu-beginners runs and grant OP status to a few of those who are regulars so that they would be able to act if a 'saddo' / 'troll' etc comes by? Regards, Phill. Perhaps we can ask newcomers to read http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct and adhere to it. It would also be good if there is one or two moderators on this list who would remind anyone who breaks the rules and have the power to suspend him from the list, if necessary. The ubuntu-users mailing list tends to be abusive too and there are people who gives advice badly. There is certainly room for improvement and I hope this lubuntu list can remain civil, polite and helpful. The kubuntu-users list is quite friendly, helpful and cheerful. Sometimes there are 'stragglers' from the ubuntu list but when they misbehave, they are usually shooed away by the kubuntu users themselves. Of course the quality of any list depends ultimately on the users themselves but there must be a mechanism to prevent spam, flaming and trolling. This is usually not in the code of conduct, but since this is an international mailing list, I'd recommend that any signature of a political, religious or anti-religious sentiment be removed. Admittedly, it is not easy to handle the multi faceted mix of users. For example, some, when rebuked about their offensive or profane statements, may claim 'cultural licence' - I am from New York, people are not so thin-skinned - or a guy who starts his posts with a long winded capital-lettered tribute to god. I would not envy the moderator. Regards - Goh Lip ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] 64-bit install?
Hi Andrew, hello *, I know, that the packge manager pull down the 64-bit version, if they exist. But I assume, that the package manager will get the 32-bit version if this is the only one of the package. So to be more precisely: 1.) Does all the maintainers of the various packages needed for lubuntu- desktop (lxde-..., pcmanfm, osmo, deadbeef, ...) provide 64-bit versions? 2.) If some components are only provided as 32-bit, are there any concerns about such a mixed-system? Best regards Marcus ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] 64-bit install?
The packages in the metapackage will be available in both 32bit and 64bit. On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:37 AM, M. Daub m.d...@web.de wrote: Hi Andrew, hello *, I know, that the packge manager pull down the 64-bit version, if they exist. But I assume, that the package manager will get the 32-bit version if this is the only one of the package. So to be more precisely: 1.) Does all the maintainers of the various packages needed for lubuntu- desktop (lxde-..., pcmanfm, osmo, deadbeef, ...) provide 64-bit versions? 2.) If some components are only provided as 32-bit, are there any concerns about such a mixed-system? Best regards Marcus ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] modem-manager
Le vendredi 04 juin 2010 à 19:15 +0200, Max a écrit : please add modem-manager to lubuntu-desktop meta-package in future relases. for netbooks is a necessary software. It's already added for 10.10. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] ..will remove lubuntu-desktop
Le vendredi 04 juin 2010 à 23:11 +0100, Phillip Whiteside a écrit : -- If you wish to remove a programme from lubuntu, you may be told that by doing so it will remove lubuntu-desktop. Lubuntu-desktop is only used for upgrade (when you change the Lubuntu version) or initial installation of lubuntu and can be safely removed. It would just need adding back in when you go to update from, say, 10.04 to 10.10. Lubuntu-desktop is what is called a 'meta-package' which, simply put, is just a list of what to install. It is a design decision that all packages included in lubuntu-desktop depend on it, so as to be able to use --no-install-recommends option when the initial installation occurs, thus preventing not essential programs to be installed. -- Version corrected. Thanks for your help, you can add it to the wiki. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] 64-bit install?
Hi, we seem to have lost where lubuntu 10.04 actually got up to. Stable == Not crashing every 5 minutes. Beta == Not a finished product. As it was not even launched as 'RC' (Release Candidate) The reason you say it behaves as a 'beta' is because that is exactly what it is. IMHO, considering the 'fun' that was caused by Service Pack 2 for Windoze XP (I also spell it the same way, but we get told off for that on the forums, M$ is not allowed either) which was a full release that people paid good money for, says a lot for the team being completely honest and open about the state of development when April arrived. As for regressions, I hope you are on the mailing list for Meerkat, I thoroughly enjoyed the Lynx one even though most of the stuff was way beyond my technical expertise. You get to see 'old' bugs resurfacing and patches being removed as people have time to re-write sections of code more fully. An example to me of how the very small team for lubuntu operates is easily shown when the author of pcmanfm basically tore up all the code and started again. It takes a 'big man' to appreciate they're boxing themselves into a corner re-hashing the lot. As a further example of how bugs re-surface, go take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/529794?comments=allI'm still wondering how they broke it, not only in the testing cycle for 10.04, but managed to break it, retrospectively in 9.10. But, we can do with our computers what we wish, we can use what ever 'flavour' of linux we choose - and we get to do all of that for free, unlike some other operating systems that are 'out there'. It would be a very bad day when there was only one version of linux out there. You may want to have a read of http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=18t=61 which is my take on the *buntu family, I also do recommend people who are arguing the finer things in life take a read of http://www.jonobacon.org/2008/12/19/the-ubuntu-ethos/just so as you do not loose sight of things we take for granted. May the many discussions about linux carry on, for we only need worry when there are no discussions. So far, so good - pop over to http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=385 and hear the testers putting the ubuntu world to right ;-) Regards, Phill. On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:06 PM, CAD Outsourcing cad...@gmail.com wrote: hi Chow, I understand what you are saying, and you are perfectly correct in a theoretical world. You can be arrogant all you want, but that is not going to change the fact that we livein an imperfect world, where all the planets and starts are NOT in alignment to make everything work perfectly as you mention, when recompiling for 64bit. In the real world we live in, applications are not perfect, many things aren't done perfectly, especially when you have programmer contributors with various backgrounds, philosophies, and skill levels. The proof is in the bugs. The proof is all the other 64 bit Ubuntus out there that are reputed to be less stable than their 32bit counterparts... even by their developers own admission, as you can often see the mention on the download pages 64bit is generally less stable. If you want a stable version, download the 32bit can often be read. Saying the opposite is either ignorant pretentiousness, or just a big battle of egos going on. None of which is productve in any way to the bettering of the project. Some of the points you brought up as an attempt in displaying contradictions, were made to demonstrate the contradictions made by the Lubuntu team: trying to make a faster distro that will run better on old hardware, and sacrificing stability, for a no-benefits-64bit version for the computers this is going onto. ANYONE with a very very very fast computer will NOT be able to perceive the SLIGHTEST performance difference on their computer, brought about by this distro in 64bit. BUT what they WILL see, what will stick out like a sore thumb, is the elements of the distro that were neglected and are still buggy. Don't be naïve: 64bit DOES require extra human resources - there is a lot of debugging and fixing to do, because once it is recompiled in 64, strange things happen... and when you run those 32 bit apps on a 64 bit OS, you'll slow down anything that is not the new generation intels of this year (not exactly the crowd that would want lubuntu anyways). (It's the same problem as we had with .com versus .exe program files in DOS and Windoze (I just like to call it windoze) - many were not compiled so they still need an interpreter, because after compilation they may not have been as stable. Otherwise everything would have been compiled on that platform.) And btw, all the apps we need are not all available in 64 bit. Skype for one, Gimp, and many others as well. If we had to choose, we would rather see a bug-free 32 bit version, and only 32 bit available, than having both maintained but some elements or
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] 64-bit install?
I feel humbled by your eloquent way of defusing a situation that threatens to get out of hand. A bright mind you are. BTW, we can use the term windoze on the forums and anywhere else we please, because the trademarks that Microsoft has the rights to are MS, XP, Microsoft, Windows and the like, not multiple sclerosis, not microsoot, not windoze... Of course, you will always see marketing people, and professional public relationists, hired by the powers that be, use intimidation and any other ways, on forums and anywhere else, as part of the company's overall marketing and image campaign... generously funded I need not add. (which may even include threats made to forum owners... Ironically, if you study the other kind of IP (as in intellectual property), you will notice that whenever we do use the proper trademarked terms, they COULD hit us legally for not including the mention windows is a registered trademark of microsoft corporation each and every time we write it... and we don't see them doing that now, do we? because then everyone would start using the term windoze to avoid such legal enforcement. Windoze Windoze Windoze Windoze Windoze Windoze Windoze Windoze Windoze* there! hahaha * Windoze is not a registered trademark of M$ On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 18:42, Phillip Whiteside phi...@phillw.net wrote: Hi, we seem to have lost where lubuntu 10.04 actually got up to. Stable == Not crashing every 5 minutes. Beta == Not a finished product. As it was not even launched as 'RC' (Release Candidate) The reason you say it behaves as a 'beta' is because that is exactly what it is. IMHO, considering the 'fun' that was caused by Service Pack 2 for Windoze XP (I also spell it the same way, but we get told off for that on the forums, M$ is not allowed either) which was a full release that people paid good money for, says a lot for the team being completely honest and open about the state of development when April arrived. As for regressions, I hope you are on the mailing list for Meerkat, I thoroughly enjoyed the Lynx one even though most of the stuff was way beyond my technical expertise. You get to see 'old' bugs resurfacing and patches being removed as people have time to re-write sections of code more fully. An example to me of how the very small team for lubuntu operates is easily shown when the author of pcmanfm basically tore up all the code and started again. It takes a 'big man' to appreciate they're boxing themselves into a corner re-hashing the lot. As a further example of how bugs re-surface, go take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/529794?comments=allI'm still wondering how they broke it, not only in the testing cycle for 10.04, but managed to break it, retrospectively in 9.10. But, we can do with our computers what we wish, we can use what ever 'flavour' of linux we choose - and we get to do all of that for free, unlike some other operating systems that are 'out there'. It would be a very bad day when there was only one version of linux out there. You may want to have a read of http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=18t=61 which is my take on the *buntu family, I also do recommend people who are arguing the finer things in life take a read of http://www.jonobacon.org/2008/12/19/the-ubuntu-ethos/ just so as you do not loose sight of things we take for granted. May the many discussions about linux carry on, for we only need worry when there are no discussions. So far, so good - pop over to http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=385 and hear the testers putting the ubuntu world to right ;-) Regards, Phill. On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:06 PM, CAD Outsourcing cad...@gmail.com wrote: hi Chow, I understand what you are saying, and you are perfectly correct in a theoretical world. You can be arrogant all you want, but that is not going to change the fact that we livein an imperfect world, where all the planets and starts are NOT in alignment to make everything work perfectly as you mention, when recompiling for 64bit. In the real world we live in, applications are not perfect, many things aren't done perfectly, especially when you have programmer contributors with various backgrounds, philosophies, and skill levels. The proof is in the bugs. The proof is all the other 64 bit Ubuntus out there that are reputed to be less stable than their 32bit counterparts... even by their developers own admission, as you can often see the mention on the download pages 64bit is generally less stable. If you want a stable version, download the 32bit can often be read. Saying the opposite is either ignorant pretentiousness, or just a big battle of egos going on. None of which is productve in any way to the bettering of the project. Some of the points you brought up as an attempt in displaying contradictions, were made to demonstrate the contradictions made by the Lubuntu team: trying to make a faster
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] marketing
Hi, long story cut short. I've moved host for my baby forum. I used to use the 468X60 banner at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Marketing#Web banners as a click link to download lubuntu, it was discussed that it should be a little more obvious that it is a download link. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Marketing#Web bannersCan you redo it with the text Click here to Download for Free (or words to that effect) - I'm quite okay if it needs to be resized600(ish) X 100 (ish) as a banner if the text needs to be on two lines. If you could also give some thought as to a similarly sized one that says Click here to get the development version (or words to that effect) possibly with a different scheme indicating it is the development version? I'll leave the art work / design to you experts, amongst many things I am not, is a graphic designer :-) Thanks, Phill. 2010/5/5 j c gne...@gmail.com Hello, Looks sharp. a-href='whateverthehotlinkis/htm'Get Lubuntu /a You could stylize and still remain in the light area, light as in light weight. http://www.w3schools.com/HTML/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_image_float http://www.w3schools.com/HTML/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_image_floatI would have to get a domain to test it out, I use to write that stuff line by line in Vim. I also like Bluefish, I prefer Arachnophelia , but it is pure java. Cheers, Vigo 2010/5/4 Phillip Whiteside phi...@phillw.net Hi, within my baby forum I have a lubuntu area. The main banner for ubutnu (which is not installed at the moment as I've just installed a new theme, but can be seen here http://www.phillw.net/ (I have clearance from Canonical for that) I request permission to add the 468x60 banner from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork#Web banners https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork#Web+banners as a sub banner for that area, as the http link, i would propose https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#Introduction to the Lubuntu Desktop projecthttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#Introduction+to+the+Lubuntu+Desktop+project But I'm not sure if you could think of a better link that does just say Direct from server / Torrent, I'd be happy to have it link internally to a posting that explains getting it. Regards, Phill. 2010/5/1 神癒礁湖 ・ rafaellag...@gmail.com Hi, boys and girls. Updated a few marketing things in our Wiki. Check it out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork http://www.rafaellaguna.comhttp://www.lubuntu.net ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] 64-bit install?
Here are my two cents: 1. Compiling for 64-bit will make executable binaries bigger and takes more disk space 2. because of #1, 64-bit apps uses more memory, but the difference is minimal 3. the performance of most apps are bound to I/O and mainly affected by speed of hard drives and internet transmission speed, not CPU. So don't expect any visible performance gain if you go 64-bit. Most of the deskop apps nowadays are I/O bound and 64-bit memory access won't help much and the I/O can even increase due to increased binary sizes. Get 64-bit version of nautilus and you'll see what I mean. 4. A well written C program can be used both in 32 and 64 bit environment without any modification. So no additional develop work is needed. If a C program runs in 32, but crashes in 64, that's a bug. It's a packaging issue, not a developing one. No modification to source code is not needed so developers are only needed for packaging/testing, not coding. Given the automated build system, not many developers are needed. Otherwise, it's a bug. 5. CPU intensive programs can benefit from 64 bit since your CPU can handle more data in the same time, but this only holds true when the applications are designed to take advantage of it. Most of our daily apps won't get performance gain. Actually some will even become slower. Try it at home if you don't believe it. Conclusion: 1. Going 64-bit won't give much visible performance gain. So it's not a must-have. 2. Going 64-bit won't take much work and should be easy, unless there are bugs. So there is no reason not to do it. This can help find potential bugs. 3. If a program runs well in 32-bit OS, but fail to run in 64-bit one, this is not an architecture problem. It's a bug. Please report it instead of complain of 64-bit. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] 64-bit install?
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:51 PM, PCMan pcman...@gmail.com wrote: snip 3. If a program runs well in 32-bit OS, but fail to run in 64-bit one, this is not an architecture problem. It's a bug. Please report it instead of complain of 64-bit. One example I found when playing with the Mini CD 64-bit install is that NetworkManager Applet 0.8 doesn't work correctly in 64-bit. The eth0 connection itself works, but the applet reports there are no network connections at all. It also doesn't display it's icon in the panel, although right-clicking on the space where it should be shows it's actually there. I'm guessing this is the sort of thing you're referring to, and which should be reported as a bug? Thanks, Bob ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
