Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer, Qt4, Lubuntu release date, Modular installer
I see no reason Lubuntu for Karmic could not be called a beta or preview of Lubuntu or similar. In respect to qt, the toolkit itself is not that large. One problem is matching qt themes (fonts, colors, controls) and preferences with gtk. If we have default settings that match, then I see no problem with this at all. As to whether mplayer/smplayer vs vlc vs something else, that is a different question :). Mario Behling wrote: Dear all, I would like to exchange with you some thoughts that came up in an exchange with PCMan concerning using Mplayer, Qt4 and the release date of lubuntu. I agree with PCMan that we should get feedback from the community first before releasing a stable lubuntu. The current lubuntu is already quite good, but there will probably be some bugs that we dont know, besides bugs that we know of e.g. in PCManFM. As PCMan is working on a new version of the file manger, I hope we will be able to include it. Read on below. - Mario -- Forwarded message -- From: PCMan Hi all Clearly Mplayer has the best performance on old machines which are the target of Lubuntu. However, the usability of currently available mplayer GUI frontend are quite problematic. SMplayer, although being developed with Qt4, undoubtedly has quite good usability compared with others. Qt4 is not a problem. It's bigger, but it's not very big. Besides, there will be more and more applications written in Qt4 in the future. Denying the use of Qt4 is quite unwise, IMHO. If you can find something that are as good, feel free to replace it. But the problem is, there isn't. The other usable player should be VLC, which is also written in Qt4, too. Xine is yet another solution, but it doesn't have good performance, and the usability is not good, either. So it's good for nothing. Rather than including something that is good for nothing, I'd rather include something that at least give you good usability. This is the rationale. Another concern is, can we postpone the release of Lubuntu? Rather than releasing something new but broken, I'd rather release it when it's really ready. Give the users something that is half-done is not a good way for marketing. I'm confident that Lubuntu will be ready for everyday use at the time of next Ubuntu LTS release. However, if we want to make it for 9.10, we might end up with a broken distro that is problematic. IMHO, keeping it in Alpha or Beta status is more preferable. Then just use 9.10 release to get enough feedback from the users. Things should be ready in Q1, 2010. Then the next LTS will be the right time for first official release of Lubuntu. For application selection, I'd suggest creating a modular installer and let the user choose what they want. This doesn't need to be included in the Ubuntu installer. We can run a app selection wizard at first-time startup. This can be the perfect solution for application selection. Any thoughts? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp attachment: david_sugar.vcf___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer, Qt4, Lubuntu release date, Modular installer
Hi, For Mplayer / SMplayer, as there is no consensus for switching to something else, let's stay with this 2 for Karmic. I'll put them in Recommends, so lubuntu-desktop can be installed without this 2. I'll try to move Mplayer to universe, but I'm not sure it'll be doable. Let's discuss the video player choice after the Karmic release. For the release date, there is 2 choices : - Stick with Ubuntu schedule and release/freeze at the same time. This could be a solution if we want to release the finished Lubuntu in time for Karmic+1. - Don't follow this schedule and release after. We can do this, but the consequence will be to have separate packages for some components, not in sync with Ubuntu official packages and repository. A possibility is to use the Lubuntu PPA as an extra repository and publish packages when it's done. But we need to deal with maintenance, bug reports etc ... As a MOTU, I prefer the solution 1, let's publish a preview for Karmic and the real Lubuntu for Karmic+1. For custom installer, I don't like this idea. Because someone need to code it, and people can have the same by installing the applications they want after the installation of Lubuntu. Most of People using Ubuntu and derivate want to have an installation ready out-of-the-box, they don't want to choose between VLC and Mplayer for example. If we want to allow the user to customize his installation and keeping the core LXDE in place, it's possible to make all extra packages (Mplayer, Aqualung etc ...) optional, by making them recommends on the lubuntu-desktop package. People will be able to remove Mplayer to install VLC, and will keep the lubuntu-desktop and so LXDE core packages installed. Regards, Julien Lavergne Le samedi 19 septembre 2009 à 12:41 +0800, Mario Behling a écrit : Dear all, I would like to exchange with you some thoughts that came up in an exchange with PCMan concerning using Mplayer, Qt4 and the release date of lubuntu. I agree with PCMan that we should get feedback from the community first before releasing a stable lubuntu. The current lubuntu is already quite good, but there will probably be some bugs that we dont know, besides bugs that we know of e.g. in PCManFM. As PCMan is working on a new version of the file manger, I hope we will be able to include it. Read on below. - Mario -- Forwarded message -- From: PCMan Hi all Clearly Mplayer has the best performance on old machines which are the target of Lubuntu. However, the usability of currently available mplayer GUI frontend are quite problematic. SMplayer, although being developed with Qt4, undoubtedly has quite good usability compared with others. Qt4 is not a problem. It's bigger, but it's not very big. Besides, there will be more and more applications written in Qt4 in the future. Denying the use of Qt4 is quite unwise, IMHO. If you can find something that are as good, feel free to replace it. But the problem is, there isn't. The other usable player should be VLC, which is also written in Qt4, too. Xine is yet another solution, but it doesn't have good performance, and the usability is not good, either. So it's good for nothing. Rather than including something that is good for nothing, I'd rather include something that at least give you good usability. This is the rationale. Another concern is, can we postpone the release of Lubuntu? Rather than releasing something new but broken, I'd rather release it when it's really ready. Give the users something that is half-done is not a good way for marketing. I'm confident that Lubuntu will be ready for everyday use at the time of next Ubuntu LTS release. However, if we want to make it for 9.10, we might end up with a broken distro that is problematic. IMHO, keeping it in Alpha or Beta status is more preferable. Then just use 9.10 release to get enough feedback from the users. Things should be ready in Q1, 2010. Then the next LTS will be the right time for first official release of Lubuntu. For application selection, I'd suggest creating a modular installer and let the user choose what they want. This doesn't need to be included in the Ubuntu installer. We can run a app selection wizard at first-time startup. This can be the perfect solution for application selection. Any thoughts? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer, Qt4, Lubuntu release date, Modular installer
Julien Lavergne wrote: Hi, For Mplayer / SMplayer, as there is no consensus for switching to something else, let's stay with this 2 for Karmic. I'll put them in Recommends, so lubuntu-desktop can be installed without this 2. I'll try to move Mplayer to universe, but I'm not sure it'll be doable. Let's discuss the video player choice after the Karmic release. Agreed! For the release date, there is 2 choices : - Stick with Ubuntu schedule and release/freeze at the same time. This could be a solution if we want to release the finished Lubuntu in time for Karmic+1. - Don't follow this schedule and release after. We can do this, but the consequence will be to have separate packages for some components, not in sync with Ubuntu official packages and repository. A possibility is to use the Lubuntu PPA as an extra repository and publish packages when it's done. But we need to deal with maintenance, bug reports etc ... As a MOTU, I prefer the solution 1, let's publish a preview for Karmic and the real Lubuntu for Karmic+1. I prefer #1 also by far... For custom installer, I don't like this idea. Because someone need to code it, and people can have the same by installing the applications they want after the installation of Lubuntu. Most of People using Ubuntu and derivate want to have an installation ready out-of-the-box, they don't want to choose between VLC and Mplayer for example. If we want to allow the user to customize his installation and keeping the core LXDE in place, it's possible to make all extra packages (Mplayer, Aqualung etc ...) optional, by making them recommends on the lubuntu-desktop package. People will be able to remove Mplayer to install VLC, and will keep the lubuntu-desktop and so LXDE core packages installed. We can review moving more things into recommends for this purpose for Karmic +1. Regards, Julien Lavergne Le samedi 19 septembre 2009 à 12:41 +0800, Mario Behling a écrit : Dear all, I would like to exchange with you some thoughts that came up in an exchange with PCMan concerning using Mplayer, Qt4 and the release date of lubuntu. I agree with PCMan that we should get feedback from the community first before releasing a stable lubuntu. The current lubuntu is already quite good, but there will probably be some bugs that we dont know, besides bugs that we know of e.g. in PCManFM. As PCMan is working on a new version of the file manger, I hope we will be able to include it. Read on below. - Mario -- Forwarded message -- From: PCMan Hi all Clearly Mplayer has the best performance on old machines which are the target of Lubuntu. However, the usability of currently available mplayer GUI frontend are quite problematic. SMplayer, although being developed with Qt4, undoubtedly has quite good usability compared with others. Qt4 is not a problem. It's bigger, but it's not very big. Besides, there will be more and more applications written in Qt4 in the future. Denying the use of Qt4 is quite unwise, IMHO. If you can find something that are as good, feel free to replace it. But the problem is, there isn't. The other usable player should be VLC, which is also written in Qt4, too. Xine is yet another solution, but it doesn't have good performance, and the usability is not good, either. So it's good for nothing. Rather than including something that is good for nothing, I'd rather include something that at least give you good usability. This is the rationale. Another concern is, can we postpone the release of Lubuntu? Rather than releasing something new but broken, I'd rather release it when it's really ready. Give the users something that is half-done is not a good way for marketing. I'm confident that Lubuntu will be ready for everyday use at the time of next Ubuntu LTS release. However, if we want to make it for 9.10, we might end up with a broken distro that is problematic. IMHO, keeping it in Alpha or Beta status is more preferable. Then just use 9.10 release to get enough feedback from the users. Things should be ready in Q1, 2010. Then the next LTS will be the right time for first official release of Lubuntu. For application selection, I'd suggest creating a modular installer and let the user choose what they want. This doesn't need to be included in the Ubuntu installer. We can run a app selection wizard at first-time startup. This can be the perfect solution for application selection. Any thoughts? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help :
[Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer, Qt4, Lubuntu release date, Modular installer
Dear all, I would like to exchange with you some thoughts that came up in an exchange with PCMan concerning using Mplayer, Qt4 and the release date of lubuntu. I agree with PCMan that we should get feedback from the community first before releasing a stable lubuntu. The current lubuntu is already quite good, but there will probably be some bugs that we dont know, besides bugs that we know of e.g. in PCManFM. As PCMan is working on a new version of the file manger, I hope we will be able to include it. Read on below. - Mario -- Forwarded message -- From: PCMan Hi all Clearly Mplayer has the best performance on old machines which are the target of Lubuntu. However, the usability of currently available mplayer GUI frontend are quite problematic. SMplayer, although being developed with Qt4, undoubtedly has quite good usability compared with others. Qt4 is not a problem. It's bigger, but it's not very big. Besides, there will be more and more applications written in Qt4 in the future. Denying the use of Qt4 is quite unwise, IMHO. If you can find something that are as good, feel free to replace it. But the problem is, there isn't. The other usable player should be VLC, which is also written in Qt4, too. Xine is yet another solution, but it doesn't have good performance, and the usability is not good, either. So it's good for nothing. Rather than including something that is good for nothing, I'd rather include something that at least give you good usability. This is the rationale. Another concern is, can we postpone the release of Lubuntu? Rather than releasing something new but broken, I'd rather release it when it's really ready. Give the users something that is half-done is not a good way for marketing. I'm confident that Lubuntu will be ready for everyday use at the time of next Ubuntu LTS release. However, if we want to make it for 9.10, we might end up with a broken distro that is problematic. IMHO, keeping it in Alpha or Beta status is more preferable. Then just use 9.10 release to get enough feedback from the users. Things should be ready in Q1, 2010. Then the next LTS will be the right time for first official release of Lubuntu. For application selection, I'd suggest creating a modular installer and let the user choose what they want. This doesn't need to be included in the Ubuntu installer. We can run a app selection wizard at first-time startup. This can be the perfect solution for application selection. Any thoughts? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
