[LUTE] One more damn question about which instrument...
Hi All, You're probably getting tired of hearing these kinds of questions, and I am going to talk to my teacher (Chris Henrikson) about it on Monday, but in the meantime I'm a beginning "lute" student in possession of a classical guitar. I can probably afford to spend $2000 next year on a student lute. My long term goals are to be able to play some nice renaissance things (Pavana Bray, some Holborne's Bona Speranza, the ballet from Terpsichore, etc.). To make things interesting, I'd also like to be able to play some of the movements from Bach's Cello Suites, and, (probably 15 years from now) BWV 998 (PFA). Question: given these goals, the fact that I have money and time to spend on one technique, does it make some kind of sense to simply learn classical guitar technique? I could start on renaissance lute (using the guitar as a poor substitute for a year or two), but to play the Bach would eventually require a baroque lute, with a very different technique. On the other hand, learning the CG has a sense of continuity about it -- one uses the same technique (however inauthentic), and deals with the technical and interpretive challenges as integral parts of the same technique. Thanks to all the members of the list for their patience with a newbie. In spite of some apparent confusion, it's all been quite a fantastic experience so far. Jim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Goldberg VLC
Sandy: If you follow some of the internal links on his site, it becomes clear that there are a number of other players that use essentially the same technique, which seems to be essentially hammering on the appropriate pitch with no plucking. On one page he has a list of other "Polish tappers," several of whom use some version of a Chapman stick. Lots of unusual tunings. There is also a link to the (Polish) company that made his double guitar, where they have a disclaimer that runs basically, "Don't even think about trying to fret the upper neck with your left hand." Regards, Daniel Heiman On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:35:28 -0400 "Sandy Hackney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I was able to hear it, but I hate "to be an idiot", but how did he do > it? > Were both necks just responding to his finger pressure or was he > plucking > with left on one neck and fingering the same strings on the other? > I > listened only once and maybe if I looked more I would figure it > out...Thank > you. > Sandy > - Original Message - > From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Gernot Hilger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:17 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Goldberg VLC > > > > > > On Sep 11, 2005, at 9:52 PM, Gernot Hilger wrote: > > > >> Thanks to Daniel and Roman, I finally managed to listen to the > music > >> at http://adam.fulara.com/e.php?g=music > > > > Sorry to be an idiot, but could you explain how you did it? I > have > > VLC but I don't get how to play the file in it. Pasting the URL > into > > VLC or trying to drag it doesn't do anything. Double clicking the > > file still brings up Quicktime. > > > > cheers, > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts
> ...Dowland must be turning in his grave. > Best wishes, > Stewart McCoy Well, for the first time Dowland must have moaned when he got his First Book of Songes from the printer and saw all the errors. Now he must keep turning in his grave very often seeing all those modern ''e-editions'' done without a iota of criticism for historical sources and simply thinking. It's well known old prints or manuscripts of poliphonic music are full of errors and omissions. The simplest (well, not always!) and basic duty of someone making score of individual parts is to synchronize the voices, not to say about the 'secrets of chromatic art' (Lowinsky). In case of Unquiet Thoughts the 'e-editor' just copied, thoughtlessly, what is in the original print - compare facsimile. All mistakes from before 400 years got digitized - a creative combination of an honest enthusiasm and technology. Last year a student of mine lost a month working on a beautifully edited tablature, downloaded from one of those reach web libraries, until we realized it is so full of mistakes that it is unplayable. The piece was a greasy Pavan by Robert Johnson from Lord Herbert of Cherbury - as it appeared later, but the 'edition' said humbly nothing of its source nor editorial procedures, if any... Let's leave detailes out at the moment. This is just a warning against such a happy creativity. Beside all good intentions, music has also a professional apect, if even restricted to minimum and hidden... Best regards! JZ __ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [VIHUELA] Re: rasgueo
--- Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anything titled JACARAS is South American in flavor. > RT orientis partibus ... hee-haw ... "and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly..." - Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), "Historias de la Conquista del Mayab" by Fra Joseph of San Buenaventura. go to: http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts
Thanks Stewart, At least this shows how useful MIDI is for proofreading transcriptions! As long of course as the transcriber is willing to listen to the results... Alain Stewart McCoy wrote: >Dear Alain, > >The mistake in the MIDI file is confirmed in the PDF file. He's >missed a minim from the Cantus (at the start of his 3/2 bar), so >everything is out by a minim for the rest of the piece. It's >nothing to do with computers. :-) > >It was Ian Harwood (President of the Lute Society), who despairingly >pointed it out to me. > >All the best, > >Stewart. > > >- Original Message - >From: "Alain Veylit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > >Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 9:29 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts > > > > >>This might also be caused by either inferior software or imperfect >>knowledge of how to use the said software... Clearly there is a >> >> >problem > > >>with alterations, possibly caused by a conflict between graphical >> >> >and > > >>audio requirements : i.e. only the first alteration in a bar is >> >> >shown > > >>but every MIDI note in a bar has to be altered. >>My two cents, >>Alain >> >> >> >>Stewart McCoy wrote: >> >> >> >>>Dear Eric, >>> >>>Let's not split hairs. You need to listen at least halfway >>> >>> >through > > >>>the MIDI file, to appreciate fully that someone lacks a certain >>>musicological nous. Dowland must be turning in his grave. >>> >>>Best wishes, >>> >>>Stewart McCoy. >>> >>> >>>- Original Message - >>>From: "Eric Crouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: "Lute Net" >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:00 PM >>>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ah, but is it a performance at all, as it is presumably MIDI generated from the Lilypond file? [Only musicologists to answer this :-) ] Eric Crouch lute@cs.dartmouth.edu On 14 Sep 2005, at 16:19, Stewart McCoy wrote: >Dear All, > >If you would like to hear an execrable performance of Dowland's >"Unquiet Thoughts", try this site: > >http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/piece-info.cgi?id=21 > >Best wishes, > >Stewart McCoy. > > > > >>> >>> >>> >>>To get on or off this list see list information at >>>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Hand problems
Thank you all so much for your concern and the information you've shared. I'll keep the list posted as the situation (and my left pinky!) unfolds. My condition is not really extreme at this point (pinky lacks about 30 degrees of full extension), but if it worsens I'll have even more trouble than I already do playing 3rd fret on 6 together with 7th fret on the treble! I've heard encouraging news from a lutenist in the UK who may soon join the list. Thanks again, best regards, Leonard On 9/12/05 5:25 PM, "Leonard Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Has anyone on the list had a run-in with Dupuytren's Contracture? > Know anyone who has? It's hereditary, affecting mostly older middle-aged > males of northern European ancestry. The fascia in the palm of the hand > forms nodules which restrict the extension of the fingers, causing them to > curl toward the palm. > I'm asking because a hand specialist has just informed me that I'm > experiencing it. In a recent development, my left little finger doesn't > extend all the way. It could worsen. Correction is surgical; recurrence is > possible. > Questions: > If you have any experience with this, what did you do about it? > Did it work? > Any suggestions? > > Thanks and regards, > Leonard Williams > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Unquiet Thoughts
Dear Alain, The mistake in the MIDI file is confirmed in the PDF file. He's missed a minim from the Cantus (at the start of his 3/2 bar), so everything is out by a minim for the rest of the piece. It's nothing to do with computers. :-) It was Ian Harwood (President of the Lute Society), who despairingly pointed it out to me. All the best, Stewart. - Original Message - From: "Alain Veylit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 9:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts > This might also be caused by either inferior software or imperfect > knowledge of how to use the said software... Clearly there is a problem > with alterations, possibly caused by a conflict between graphical and > audio requirements : i.e. only the first alteration in a bar is shown > but every MIDI note in a bar has to be altered. > My two cents, > Alain > > > > Stewart McCoy wrote: > > >Dear Eric, > > > >Let's not split hairs. You need to listen at least halfway through > >the MIDI file, to appreciate fully that someone lacks a certain > >musicological nous. Dowland must be turning in his grave. > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Stewart McCoy. > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Eric Crouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Lute Net" > >Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:00 PM > >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts > > > > > > > > > >>Ah, but is it a performance at all, as it is presumably MIDI > >>generated from the Lilypond file? > >>[Only musicologists to answer this :-) ] > >> > >>Eric Crouch > >> > >>lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > >>On 14 Sep 2005, at 16:19, Stewart McCoy wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Dear All, > >>> > >>>If you would like to hear an execrable performance of Dowland's > >>>"Unquiet Thoughts", try this site: > >>> > >>>http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/piece-info.cgi?id=21 > >>> > >>>Best wishes, > >>> > >>>Stewart McCoy. > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at > >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts
Yes, something does seem to go badly wrong with it. I thought it must just be problems with the MIDI, but then I printed it out and tried to play it on the piano. I don't know this piece but it looks as if the parts manage to get seriously mangled somewhere in bars 4 and 5 and my guess is that part 1 gets to be 2 beats ahead by bar 6 and stays that way to the end. This could be what me and my friend Edward who plays the recorder sound like when we are together, but I'm sure you're right in thinking that Dowland wouldn't appreciate it. Eric On 14 Sep 2005, at 19:30, Stewart McCoy wrote: > Dear Eric, > > Let's not split hairs. You need to listen at least halfway through > the MIDI file, to appreciate fully that someone lacks a certain > musicological nous. Dowland must be turning in his grave. > > Best wishes, > > Stewart McCoy. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Eric Crouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Lute Net" > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:00 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts > > > >> Ah, but is it a performance at all, as it is presumably MIDI >> generated from the Lilypond file? >> [Only musicologists to answer this :-) ] >> >> Eric Crouch >> >> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> On 14 Sep 2005, at 16:19, Stewart McCoy wrote: >> >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> If you would like to hear an execrable performance of Dowland's >>> "Unquiet Thoughts", try this site: >>> >>> http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/piece-info.cgi?id=21 >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Stewart McCoy. >>> > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts
This might also be caused by either inferior software or imperfect knowledge of how to use the said software... Clearly there is a problem with alterations, possibly caused by a conflict between graphical and audio requirements : i.e. only the first alteration in a bar is shown but every MIDI note in a bar has to be altered. My two cents, Alain Stewart McCoy wrote: >Dear Eric, > >Let's not split hairs. You need to listen at least halfway through >the MIDI file, to appreciate fully that someone lacks a certain >musicological nous. Dowland must be turning in his grave. > >Best wishes, > >Stewart McCoy. > > >- Original Message - >From: "Eric Crouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Lute Net" >Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:00 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts > > > > >>Ah, but is it a performance at all, as it is presumably MIDI >>generated from the Lilypond file? >>[Only musicologists to answer this :-) ] >> >>Eric Crouch >> >>lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>On 14 Sep 2005, at 16:19, Stewart McCoy wrote: >> >> >> >>>Dear All, >>> >>>If you would like to hear an execrable performance of Dowland's >>>"Unquiet Thoughts", try this site: >>> >>>http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/piece-info.cgi?id=21 >>> >>>Best wishes, >>> >>>Stewart McCoy. >>> >>> > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >
[LUTE] Unquiet Thoughts
Dear Eric, Let's not split hairs. You need to listen at least halfway through the MIDI file, to appreciate fully that someone lacks a certain musicological nous. Dowland must be turning in his grave. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: "Eric Crouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts > Ah, but is it a performance at all, as it is presumably MIDI > generated from the Lilypond file? > [Only musicologists to answer this :-) ] > > Eric Crouch > > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > On 14 Sep 2005, at 16:19, Stewart McCoy wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > If you would like to hear an execrable performance of Dowland's > > "Unquiet Thoughts", try this site: > > > > http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/piece-info.cgi?id=21 > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Stewart McCoy. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shakespeare songs
Ken wrote: > >I've been asked to accompany a female singer in a performance of Shakespeare >songs that will be interspersed throughout some sort of Shakespeare >presentation. She sent me the music for four songs which are actually >relatively modern arrangements (19th century?) and have piano accompaniment. >The piano parts are not even close to what a lute part would be and the keys >are not lute keys. The songs are: "O Mistress Mine", "The Willow Song", >"Fear No More the Heat O' The Sun" and "I Know A Bank". > >Are there "real" lute songs for these tunes with tab? If not, are there lute >songs that would be considered "Shakespeare" songs that I could substitute? >And, would any of you kind souls be able to send me copies or at least tell >me where I can quickly get them? Ken, O' Mistress Mine is by Morely. I have a copy of his Book of Ayres with lute tab. I can scan the page and email it to you if you like. As for the rest I believe all these are covered in the book Shakespeare's Songbook by Ross Dufin; http://www.wwnorton.com/catalog/spring04/005889.htm I'll look through my copy tonight and see what he has for music for those pieces. Regards, Craig ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Unquiet Thoughts
Ah, but is it a performance at all, as it is presumably MIDI generated from the Lilypond file? [Only musicologists to answer this :-) ] Eric Crouch lute@cs.dartmouth.edu On 14 Sep 2005, at 16:19, Stewart McCoy wrote: > Dear All, > > If you would like to hear an execrable performance of Dowland's > "Unquiet Thoughts", try this site: > > http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/piece-info.cgi?id=21 > > Best wishes, > > Stewart McCoy. > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Shakespeare songs
Hello lute folks, I've been asked to accompany a female singer in a performance of Shakespeare songs that will be interspersed throughout some sort of Shakespeare presentation. She sent me the music for four songs which are actually relatively modern arrangements (19th century?) and have piano accompaniment. The piano parts are not even close to what a lute part would be and the keys are not lute keys. The songs are: "O Mistress Mine", "The Willow Song", "Fear No More the Heat O' The Sun" and "I Know A Bank". Are there "real" lute songs for these tunes with tab? If not, are there lute songs that would be considered "Shakespeare" songs that I could substitute? And, would any of you kind souls be able to send me copies or at least tell me where I can quickly get them? Thank you so much! Ken Brodkey To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: (LUTE) Ownership
Ed wrote: [SNIP] >I'm a bit disgusted with myself after this public confession. I have >to lighten the load. What a packrack I am. I've probably only played >7 or 8 of these in the last decade. What astounds me is that you have all this stuff while living in Japan. Your rent must be half the gross National product. ;) Craig ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: (LUTE) Ownership
Three cats. One each, for my wife, daughter and me. early cordophones: Luciano Faria 14 course archlute 61.5cm 132cm 2005 Hiro Watanabe 58 cm 7 course converted from 8 course 1996 John Rollins 51 cm 6 course 1980 LYN ELDER 13 course 72 & 77cm 1981 John S. Claughton Baroque guitar 68.2 cm 1993 old Mexican guitar converted to 10 string Baroque guitar by Robert Strizich I suddenly realized I have a lot of excess baggage to get rid of if I'm ever going to move. acoustic: 1948 000-18 Martin steel string S. Yairi steel string TAKAMINE 12 STRING Ramirez 19752a classical Tarrega classical sitar sarod (skin was recently broken and I don' t know where I'll get it fixed) violin 5 string Banjo electric: Alembic model ? Ibenez Lee Ritenour model Epiphone solid body (extensively modified) nameless Strat copy Aria Pro II RIVERHEAD headless guitar Ibenez bass 8 synthesizers, a sampler, drum set and a piano I'm a bit disgusted with myself after this public confession. I have to lighten the load. What a packrack I am. I've probably only played 7 or 8 of these in the last decade. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hand problems
At one time (and still?) Wilson was the head of the Department of Performing Arts Medicine at the University of California at San Francisco School of Medicine. It is a good read. More a discussion of ailments of the hand than cures. Here is the full title: Frank Wilson, _The Hand: How its Use Shapes the Brain, Language and Human Culture,_ (Vintage Books, 1999). When it first came out, it was so popular that I had to put my name on a waiting list at the library (they bought 5 copies to keep up on the demand). And it was so much to be reading along and suddenly the discussion is about our pal Pat O'Brien. Not only musicians, but puppeteers, magicians, card dealers can acquire hand injuries. We all wish you well, Leonard!! Arthur - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Hand problems I'm neither a physician nor a scientist so I can offer no medical advice. I've had no first-hand (sorry) experience of the disorder, tho' I've heard of it. I assume that most folks on the list know Frank R. Wilson's book "The Hand" (New York: Pantheon Books, 1998). I'm not sure it deals specifically with this unfortunate disorder, but it is a revealing read about a subject close to all lute players. Chapter 11 considers musicians' hands and devotes a fair number of pages to Pat O'Brien and his approach to the hands. According to the jacket notes, the author is a neurologist in San Francisco who directs a program at UC-SF dedicated to the performing arts. His email is listed as well--perhaps he would entertain some questions. jeff ___ GTW.NET, http://www.gtw.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
