[LUTE] AW: waissel II.

[Thomas Schall]

BTW: The CD by Beate Dittmann is IMHO still the best of that repertoire.
You cann obtain copies from the LSA (to which I have send copies for the
last lute fest) or on my homepage you can order the disk directly from
Beate and listen to a sample piece.
http://cms.tslaute.de
The orders can be placed among "CD Bestellungen"

All the best 
Thomas

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Wolfgang Wiehe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Oktober 2005 14:53
An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dartmouth. Edu
Betreff: [LUTE] waissel II.


hello all,
me again. thomas schall has a very nice collection of waissels
"tabulatura" from 1573 on his homepage http:// 
cms.tslaute.de/ . the first piece is a praeambulum, very nice music.
beate dittmann played it on her cd " Wol kumbt der May" . unless I am
very much mistaken this anonyous piece has a concordance with phalese
1571 no. 5. (theatrum
musicum..) are other concordances, perhaps in manuscripts, known? who
may be the author of this wonderful piece?  
greetings from cottbus (near frankfurt an der oder, where waissels
printer prints :-) ) wolfgang w.

seems to me that I am not a native speaker!  Leo gratias!
www.zal.tu-cottbus.de
 
 







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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: SV: The German lute movement and the guitar-lute

[Joachim Lüdtke]

Dear Martyn,

it may be indeed that there is a direct link between the Mandora and the early 
six-string lute guitar but to me it seems difficult to find hard evidence. Lute 
instruments were made into lute guitars quite some time before 1828 if we may 
believe Jacob August Otto who testifies to this in a book published in 1828 (he 
writes about newly built lute guitars, too). There are some extant lutes made 
into six string instruments but these seem all to be of a later date (one or 
two possible exceptions - but these show suspicous features ...). However, I 
think there was a time (roughly around 1800) when lutes and guitars began to -- 
say -- "exchange ideas" [;)] ...

Joachim

"Martyn Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> 
>I presume you're both aware of Molitor's report in the early 1800s that he met 
>a Mandora player (precursor of the German 'lute guitar'?) who told him he had 
>changed to single strings like the contemporary guitar since it was 
>easier
> 
>Martyh Hodgson
>
>Kenneth Sparr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Dear Joachim,
>
>I'm sure there a lot of things concerning the history of the lute and the
>guitar in the early 20th century that are still uncovered. Your article
>indeed was a substantial contribution to our knowledge and I thank you for
>that. As Scholander made such a great success in Germany I find difficult to
>believe that he didn't exercise a considerable influence even if he didn't
>had contact with the Scherrer-circle (or the other way round?).
>
>Concerning the single-string lute question the Swedish lute (or Sittra as it
>was also called) already got its single strings as early as the end of the
>18th century, but it developed from the cittern. Certainly there is more
>research needed also concerning the development of the Swedish lute.
>
>I searched Bacher's Lautenfibel for many years and finally found it via
>ZVAB, the excellent German search engine for antiquarian books. It may have
>some Internet when we describe the "renaissance" of lute playing from
>tablature.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Kenneth Sparr
>Stromstigen 25
>S-149 51 Nynashamn
>SWEDEN
>
>Telephone: +46-852015561
>www.tabulatura.com
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>-Ursprungligt meddelande-
>Från: Joachim Lüdtke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>Skickat: den 9 oktober 2005 20:07
>Till: Kenneth Sparr; lute-list (Renaissance)
>Ämne: Re: [LUTE] The German lute movement and the guitar-lute
>
>Dear Kenneth,
>
>thank you for your mail - I didn't know that my article would be of interest
>to anyone outside Germany although I know that the guitar lute and its
>relatives were not confined to the German spoken countries.
>
>I have not mentioned Scholander because I am unsure about the extent to
>which he influenced the singers of "lute songs" and the lute players in the
>Germany of his time and because he seems to have had no contact to the
>Scherrer-circle. In changing the Swedish lute into a single string
>instrument he may be seen as following a process which started in the early
>nineteenth century.
>
>Where did you find Bacher`s Fibel? Thank you for drawing our attention to
>it. I will try to find a copy.
>
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>   
>-
>Yahoo! Messenger  NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with 
>voicemail 
>--
>


-- 



Dr. Joachim Luedtke
Frühlingsstraße 9a
D - 93164 Laaber
Tlf.: ++49 / +9498 / 905 188
Mobil: 0172 / 275 49 48
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[LUTE] Re: SV: The German lute movement and the guitar-lute

[Joachim Lüdtke]

Dear Kenneth,

I do look from time to time into the ZVAB but weren't yet lucky in searching 
for items like this ...

My being unsure about Scholander's influence on the lute song movement in 
Germany has to do with seeing the latter as having been strongly linked with 
the musical youth movement ("Wandervogel" and others) where Scholander seems 
not to have been as popular as in the concert room ... But I may be wrong - 
there is much about this time which sometimes to me seems more difficult to 
understand than life in an early medieval town!

Joachim

"Kenneth Sparr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
>Dear Joachim,
>
>I'm sure there a lot of things concerning the history of the lute and the
>guitar in the early 20th century that are still uncovered. Your article
>indeed was a substantial contribution to our knowledge and I thank you for
>that. As Scholander made such a great success in Germany I find difficult to
>believe that he didn't exercise a considerable influence even if he didn't
>had contact with the Scherrer-circle (or the other way round?).
>
>Concerning the single-string lute question the Swedish lute (or Sittra as it
>was also called) already got its single strings as early as the end of the
>18th century, but it developed from the cittern. Certainly there is more
>research needed also concerning the development of the Swedish lute.
>
>I searched Bacher's Lautenfibel for many years and finally found it via
>ZVAB, the excellent German search engine for antiquarian books. It may have
>some Internet when we describe the "renaissance" of lute playing from
>tablature.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Kenneth Sparr
>Stromstigen 25
>S-149 51 Nynashamn
>SWEDEN
>
>Telephone: +46-852015561
>www.tabulatura.com
>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>-Ursprungligt meddelande-
>Från: Joachim Lüdtke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>Skickat: den 9 oktober 2005 20:07
>Till: Kenneth Sparr; lute-list (Renaissance)
>Ämne: Re: [LUTE] The German lute movement and the guitar-lute
>
>Dear Kenneth,
>
>thank you for your mail - I didn't know that my article would be of interest
>to anyone outside Germany although I know that the guitar lute and its
>relatives were not confined to the German spoken countries.
>
>I have not mentioned Scholander because I am unsure about the extent to
>which he influenced the singers of "lute songs" and the lute players in the
>Germany of his time and because he seems to have had no contact to the
>Scherrer-circle. In changing the Swedish lute into a single string
>instrument he may be seen as following a process which started in the early
>nineteenth century.
>
>Where did you find Bacher`s Fibel? Thank you for drawing our attention to
>it. I will try to find a copy.
>
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>


-- 



Dr. Joachim Luedtke
Frühlingsstraße 9a
D - 93164 Laaber
Tlf.: ++49 / +9498 / 905 188
Mobil: 0172 / 275 49 48
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[LUTE] orpharions and bandoras

[demery]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005, Nancy Carlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Dana,
> I'm playing a lot of orpharion these days [...] 

I had a student model copy of the rose myself some years ago, yes soft
wire strings have their own feel and touch needs; I beleive their are
contemporary warnings to that effect ("...gryppe not the strings too
strongly..." or some such).  The particular instrument I had was strung as
a 'g' lute at a=440, and it was very hard to keep a first course on it at
that pitch (short lifetime).  Even with the finest wire I could buy
intonation was not good.  I fitted temnporary nuts before the actual ones
to terminate the first and second courses shorter and that improved
intonation (while shortening them), but it wasnt really playable then.  I
can imagine many unhappy luthiers and players when jobst muellers wire
went off the market; we have the advantage of stainless steel wire today,
back then there was nothing, and the fanned-fretted, slanted bridge
instruments resulted.

> All of the above is easy to deal with, but the more challenging part of 
> orpharions is how easy it is to pull those light wire strings out of 
> tune.  

same with citterns and banjoes.

> However, when you get it right the wire string sing in a delightful way. 

they do, they do indeed.  more pluck, more sustain, and enough different
in sound that they stand out a bit.

-=-=-=-

a slightly different topic, I havent had the opportunity of comparing many
instruments yet, but while making plans of the Praetorius illustrated
Bandora I notice the rather largeish size of the pegbox.  My own 8c has a
much smaller head in all respects.  Granted, the Bandora is a bass
instrument and has longer string scale, but the drawing is more of a
scale-up than I would have expected from that alone; and yes, I am aware
of the inflation from the drawings fat lines.  I am tempted to scale it
down a bit, wish I had some photos and measurements of the Palmer
instrument to compare with.

-- 
Dana Emery




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[LUTE] waissel II.

[Wolfgang Wiehe]

hello all,
me again. thomas schall has a very nice collection of waissels
"tabulatura" from 1573 on his homepage http:// 
cms.tslaute.de/ . the first piece is a praeambulum, very nice music.
beate dittmann played it on her cd " Wol kumbt der May" . unless I am
very much mistaken this anonyous piece has a concordance with phalese
1571 no. 5. (theatrum
musicum..) are other concordances, perhaps in manuscripts, known? who
may be the author of this wonderful piece?  
greetings from cottbus (near frankfurt an der oder, where waissels
printer prints :-) )
wolfgang w.

seems to me that I am not a native speaker!  Leo gratias!
www.zal.tu-cottbus.de
 
 







To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] waissel II.

[Wolfgang Wiehe]

hello all,
me again. thomas schall has a very nice collection of waissels
"tabulatura" from 1573 on his homepage http:// 
cms.tslaute.de/ . the first piece is a praeambulum, very nice music.
beate dittmann played it on her cd " Wol kumbt der May" .
 unless
 I
 am
 very
 much
 mistaken this
anonyous piece has a concordance with phalese 1571 no. 5. (theatrum
musicum..) are other concordances, perhaps in manuscripts, known? who
may be the author of this wonderful piece?  
greetings from cottbus (near frankfurt an der oder, where waissels
printer prints :-) )
wolfgang w.
  www.zal.tu-cottbus.de
 
 

--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html