[LUTE] Re: You know you're a Lute Nerd when...
Could start a new trend. Beats wearing a G n'R T-shirt anytime. Neil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 January 2008 20:27 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] You know you're a Lute Nerd when... .you buy one of these: http://www.zazzle.com/sylvius_leopold_weiss_shirt-235530456142522879 Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] You know you're a Lute Nerd when...
..you buy one of these: http://www.zazzle.com/sylvius_leopold_weiss_shirt-235530456142522879 Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)
No, (just answer yourself). Its a 9 with a dotted note, hence not an 11th at all! This music is purely 10 c - Original Message - From: "G. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) Corrente 7 - Original Message - From: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) Yeah, and he was probably right! On second check, page 29 ms. 27 shows an 11th course? !? Which piece? Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 16.01.2008 09:01
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)
Corrente 7 - Original Message - From: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) Yeah, and he was probably right! On second check, page 29 ms. 27 shows an 11th course? !? Which piece? Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 16.01.2008 09:01
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)
> Yeah, and he was probably right! On second check, page 29 ms. 27 shows an > 11th course? !? Which piece? Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?
What do you call a tablature polyglot? A tablyglot? G. - Original Message - From: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G? As you imply: I guess it's because they can't be bothered to learn to read on an A instrument A lot of people prefer to work in those areas they're most familiar with. We have modern editions of Italian music in French tablature, because French tab is the one that a lot of people feel more at home with. We tend to stay with the techniques we're most familiar with, and in some cases we tend to stay with the types of music we're most familiar with. Someone (a most renowned and magisterial figure in the lute world ;-) ;-) ;-)) said to me last year: "Baroque lute is late-period and decadent. I don't accept it." Another equally renowned luter told me last year, "if it's not renaissance music I don't play it." It's not laziness; just a reluctance to go beyond what's familiar. If people are obcessive about renaissance music that is fine, but I am sceptic about publishing italian music in french tabulature. There is so much interesting music out there which is still unpublished, so to me its just a waste of time and effort to translate italian music to french tabulature. Its not difficult to learn to read italian tabulature, and I consider it laziness not to try it. Are (about to learn german tabulature) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)
Yeah, and he was probably right! On second check, page 29 ms. 27 shows an 11th course? G. - Original Message - From: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) I had a quick look through the libro primo di lauto, but could not find any indication of more than 10 courses. You must be mixing up the primo di chitarone. No, the person who told me was very specific that it was the libro primo di lauto, and that this is the first source for 11-course lute. But I guess he was wrong, then. ;-) Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 16.01.2008 09:01
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in G?
>> As you imply: I guess it's because they can't be bothered to >> learn to read on an A instrument > > A lot of people prefer to work in those areas they're most familiar > with. We have modern editions of Italian music in French tablature, > because French tab is the one that a lot of people feel more at home > with. We tend to stay with the techniques we're most familiar with, > and in some cases we tend to stay with the types of music we're most > familiar with. Someone (a most renowned and magisterial figure in > the lute world ;-) ;-) ;-)) said to me last year: "Baroque lute is > late-period and decadent. I don't accept it." Another equally > renowned luter told me last year, "if it's not renaissance music I > don't play it." It's not laziness; just a reluctance to go beyond > what's familiar. If people are obcessive about renaissance music that is fine, but I am sceptic about publishing italian music in french tabulature. There is so much interesting music out there which is still unpublished, so to me its just a waste of time and effort to translate italian music to french tabulature. Its not difficult to learn to read italian tabulature, and I consider it laziness not to try it. Are (about to learn german tabulature) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)
> I had a quick look through the libro primo di lauto, but could not find any > indication of more than 10 courses. You must be mixing up the primo di > chitarone. No, the person who told me was very specific that it was the libro primo di lauto, and that this is the first source for 11-course lute. But I guess he was wrong, then. ;-) Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Robert de Visee mp3
I felt that was too fast, so... http://www.rmguitar.info/temp.htm Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 January 2008 11:56 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Robert de Visee mp3 A temporary upload: http://www.rmguitar.info/mp3s/BG/RdeVSuiteEm.mp3 For the technically minded - guitar by Alexander Batov - French tuning (diapason on D only) - French baroque pitch A=392 - almost equal temperament- Book 2, Sarabande, Menuet, Passacaille- cheap Pounds 50 mic straight into computer- Nero Wave Editor for a touch of reverb - no nails - wooly jumper...this is getting silly! Rob www.rmguitar.info -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Robert de Visee mp3
>>>Files like this are the fun part of the digital age- and how it can bring a positive impulse to the early music scene.<<< I actually meant to send it to the vihuela/baroque guitar list, so it came to the baroque lute list by mistake. But I agree with Theo, and I wish more people of all playing standards would add files, even complete beginners. We are too used to hearing 'perfect' and heavily edited performances on CDs - nothing 'authentic' about that. We should create an environment where we encourage each other at all levels. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC
Monica, Related to this: are you aware if any lists of players at the 17thC/early 18thC Italian Opera Houses listing theorbos, harpsichords players also showing guitarists.? Martyn Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC these are my thoughts ... >> Lex Eisenhardt wrote: >> >> There is an interesting parallel to the rapid decline of alfabeto song >> after >> 1630. At about the same time the first instructions appeared for the use >> of the guitar in BC (Foscarini, Corbetta). >> Should we suppose that the practice of an all-battuto (alfabeto) >> accompaniment style has survived? >> There are (almost) no books with alfabeto from any other country >> than Italy, and the Italian alfabeto manuals from the second half of the >> 17th century are poor, rehashed versions of earlier editions, almost >> without >> exception. They were only printed in Rome and Venice, probably in small >> numbers, serving a local demand. Alfabeto (in print) clearly was past its >> prime. > The short answer to that is that what has survived in print is only a tip of the iceberg. And what is printed commercially reflects the economic situation at the time and place. Italy was apparently in economic decline in the second half of the 17th century. Also it may have been that the kind of songs which are included in these books had gone out of fashion rather than the manner of accompanying them. Surely this same is true of the songs which don't have alfabeto? And if you have been reading Cory Gavito's dissertation I wouldn't read too much into what he says as it is based on a very small statistical sample. The exercises in the books by Corbetta et al include examples showing which alfabeto chords match the the notes of the bass part e.g. The Regola per sonar sopra la parte on p.70 on Corbetta's are surely intended to help the player devise a strummed accompaniment. It is also self-evident that the accompaniments to the vocal pieces in Corbetta's Guitarre royale of 1671 are intended to be mostly strummed. Why else should he put the note values on the stave rather than above it? The same is true of Matteis - the first lesson which Schollars ought to learn by heart - simply the standard chords and some of his accompaniments and exercises are mostly strummed. that on p.23 for example. >> However, some players may have been able to realize an accompaniment, >> departing from the bass (and losing considerably in volume, while >> plucking >> part of the harmonies). Of course but that doesn't mean that they didn't vary the kind of accompaniment which they provided. >> >> Matteis (1680): 'The guitar was never so much in use & credit as it is at >> this day, & finding it improved to so great a perfection, it is my >> present >> design to make it company for other Instruments. Every body knows it to >> be >> an imperfect Instrument & yet finding upon experience how agreeable a >> part >> it bears in a consort I have composed severall Pieces both for ye >> practice >> & >> information of those that would make use of it with ye Harpsichord, Lute, >> Theorbo or Bass-Viol.' > Note that he suggests that it should be used with the bass viol amongst > other things. >> >> Campion (1716): '. Campion is writing a whole generation after Corbetta... one is not prejudiced against the guitar without reason. >> I >> acknowledge, along with everyone, that it is not as strong of harmony as >> the >> harpsichord or the theorbo. However, I believe that it is sufficient to >> accompany one voice.' > That is the point - the guitar is more suitable for accompanying the voice or in small groups. I would agree with Martin today that the guitar is often added to the continuo groups inappropriately. > I have even heard it included in Handel! >> >> They both did not include all-battuto accompaniments in their >> instructions, and the BC manuals from this time (Sanz, Grenerin, de >> Murcia) >> take the bass as the main reference. > Murcia wasn't printed until 1714. The point is that they didn't need to include instructions on how to strum an accompaniment. Spaniards didn't need this kind of instruction. Their objective was something different. There are large numbers of manuscripts with Castilian or Catalan cifras. Note also that the each of the tonos in the Cancionero de Marin is preceded by a note indicating the passacalles to be (presumably) strummed between the verses. If you have only seen the modern edition you may not be aware of that. > > It seems that using the guitar for >> plain battuto had become quite much a matter of genre, kept for old >> exotic >> dances (ruggieros, ciacconas etc.) and a very specific (mainly archaic) >> song >> repertoire. > > I wonder if it did come to mind at all to add the strumming of >> a >> guitar to ensemble performance. Just like this was not usual in Church >> music >> (well, in Spain and South America of course they did
[LUTE] info on Raul Perez luthier
Hello all lutenetters, I do not often post, although I have been following the lutelist for many years. As some of you know, I have been playing renaissance lute for over 30 years. The last time I had a lute made for me was back in 1981,and although I've had to modify it with the ages to make it more suitable, it remains a pretty heavy lute. For the last 10 years, I have been involved primarily with medieval music, and for lack of funds, have been playing on either my renaissance lute, a moroccan oud, or a turkish laouta. I am at the point where I really would like to buy myself a 5 course medieval lute. The price has to be fairly low, as music is just a hobby now and cannot justify such an expense easily. Last year I met with Laura Maschi ( an argentinian lute player) in Paris, who pointed out the agentinian luthier Raul Perez. www.raulperezluthier.com I have contacted him, and he quotes me a price of 1500 US without the case, and a 12 month wait. He proposes a 50 cm string length, 5 courses after Arnold De Zwolle I would like to know if anyone has ever dealt with him, seen or played his lutes. I am looking for information on his reliability, quality of craftsmanship and generallly overall impression of his lutes. The other factor which I have to take in consideration is the climate of Argentina , versus the climate in Canada. In the summer we have high humidity levels, which I guess are probably as high as Patagonia, however the winters are pretty dry, hence the lute might be at risk of developing cracks more easily. Any advice and or information would be of help. I have posted two pics of his medieval lute at http://estavel.no-ip.org/lutepics thank you -- Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Luthiste, etc Estavel Ensemble de musique ancienne www.estavel.org -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE]
It is a clear sign that things aren't what they appear to be. You would have to look at the subject line with a hex dump program to see what I mean. Wayne > > What's wrong with the subject line? > RT > > - Original Message - > From: "LGS-Europe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:19 AM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: > [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] > > >> He always has been quite fond of Dutch heads. > > > > If the body underneath is well-shaped, aren't we all?! ;-) > > > > David - doesn't mind Japanese heads, actually. > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > __ > D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" > http://www.doteasy.com >
[LUTE] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: tablature, alfabeto and BC these are my thoughts ... Lex Eisenhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There is an interesting parallel to the rapid decline of alfabeto song after 1630. At about the same time the first instructions appeared for the use of the guitar in BC (Foscarini, Corbetta). Should we suppose that the practice of an all-battuto (alfabeto) accompaniment style has survived? There are (almost) no books with alfabeto from any other country than Italy, and the Italian alfabeto manuals from the second half of the 17th century are poor, rehashed versions of earlier editions, almost without exception. They were only printed in Rome and Venice, probably in small numbers, serving a local demand. Alfabeto (in print) clearly was past its prime. The short answer to that is that what has survived in print is only a tip of the iceberg. And what is printed commercially reflects the economic situation at the time and place. Italy was apparently in economic decline in the second half of the 17th century. Also it may have been that the kind of songs which are included in these books had gone out of fashion rather than the manner of accompanying them. Surely this same is true of the songs which don't have alfabeto? And if you have been reading Cory Gavito's dissertation I wouldn't read too much into what he says as it is based on a very small statistical sample. The exercises in the books by Corbetta et al include examples showing which alfabeto chords match the the notes of the bass part e.g. The Regola per sonar sopra la parte on p.70 on Corbetta's are surely intended to help the player devise a strummed accompaniment. It is also self-evident that the accompaniments to the vocal pieces in Corbetta's Guitarre royale of 1671 are intended to be mostly strummed. Why else should he put the note values on the stave rather than above it? The same is true of Matteis - the first lesson which Schollars ought to learn by heart - simply the standard chords and some of his accompaniments and exercises are mostly strummed. that on p.23 for example. However, some players may have been able to realize an accompaniment, departing from the bass (and losing considerably in volume, while plucking part of the harmonies). Of course but that doesn't mean that they didn't vary the kind of accompaniment which they provided. Matteis (1680): 'The guitar was never so much in use & credit as it is at this day, & finding it improved to so great a perfection, it is my present design to make it company for other Instruments. Every body knows it to be an imperfect Instrument & yet finding upon experience how agreeable a part it bears in a consort I have composed severall Pieces both for ye practice & information of those that would make use of it with ye Harpsichord, Lute, Theorbo or Bass-Viol.' Note that he suggests that it should be used with the bass viol amongst other things. Campion (1716): '. Campion is writing a whole generation after Corbetta... one is not prejudiced against the guitar without reason. I acknowledge, along with everyone, that it is not as strong of harmony as the harpsichord or the theorbo. However, I believe that it is sufficient to accompany one voice.' That is the point - the guitar is more suitable for accompanying the voice or in small groups. I would agree with Martin today that the guitar is often added to the continuo groups inappropriately. I have even heard it included in Handel! They both did not include all-battuto accompaniments in their instructions, and the BC manuals from this time (Sanz, Grenerin, de Murcia) take the bass as the main reference. Murcia wasn't printed until 1714. The point is that they didn't need to include instructions on how to strum an accompaniment. Spaniards didn't need this kind of instruction. Their objective was something different. There are large numbers of manuscripts with Castilian or Catalan cifras. Note also that the each of the tonos in the Cancionero de Marin is preceded by a note indicating the passacalles to be (presumably) strummed between the verses. If you have only seen the modern edition you may not be aware of that. It seems that using the guitar for plain battuto had become quite much a matter of genre, kept for old exotic dances (ruggieros, ciacconas etc.) and a very specific (mainly archaic) song repertoire. I wonder if it did come to mind at all to add the strumming of a guitar to ensemble performance. Just like this was not usual in Church music (well, in Spain and South America of course they did...). There is a tantalizing lack of notated examples, eye-witness reports and iconography from the second half of the century, with regard to the role of the guitar in ensemble. Today it is often supposed that the guitar was added to ensembles, for rhythm and colour, with reference to unwritten traditions. What solid historical info
[LUTE] Re: [OT] Making PDF's
It usually shows up, when making a PDF from a text file via the Adobe printer "printer". Its not in the document, which is clean text. Perhaps there is a setting I have to change somewhere in the setup of that PDF printer? G. - Original Message - From: "Christian Aretz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "G. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] [OT] Making PDF's This is normally not a setting within the acrobat software. I think the header comes from the application you are printing from... C. G. Crona wrote: Does anybody know, when making a PDF in Acrobat, how to avoid that the location of the file on the harddrive shows up at the top or bottom of each page of the finished PDF? G. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 16.01.2008 09:01
[LUTE] [OT] Making PDF's
This is normally not a setting within the acrobat software. I think the header comes from the application you are printing from... C. G. Crona wrote: Does anybody know, when making a PDF in Acrobat, how to avoid that the location of the file on the harddrive shows up at the top or bottom of each page of the finished PDF? G. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G)
Are, I had a quick look through the libro primo di lauto, but could not find any indication of more than 10 courses. You must be mixing up the primo di chitarone. G. - Original Message - From: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:01 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kapsberger's lute (was: banchieri and the Theorbo in G) be that the lute in question here actually is a 10/11-corse liuto attiorbato? If that means, 1st and 2nd courses normal (like on the lute), the answer is no. All pieces of Libro prima require 1st and 2nd courses down the octave. (Nevertheless, one might want to discuss one or another toccata.) Ops, I was thinking about the Libro primo for lute, not the Libro primo for chitarrone. The recordings I know of the music from that book is played on a regular french 10-course lute, but I have wondered if Kapsberger might have had a liuto attiorbato in mind, not the least because I have heard that the music actually requires an 11-course instrument in a few places. Are To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 16.01.2008 09:01
