[LUTE] Re: Thesis
Valéry, you can have the whole thing there : http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/julia/ Amitiés, Jean-Marie === 01-02-2009 07:05:39 === the link [1]http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/thesis/ to [2]English Lute Manuscripts and Scribes 1530-1630 by Julia Craig-McFeeley; a study of the English Lute Manuscripts of the so-called Golden Age, including a detailed catalogue of the sources. seems to be broken... Any idea ? Valery -- References 1. http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/thesis/ 2. http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/thesis/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr http://poirierjm.free.fr 01-02-2009
[LUTE] Re: Old Satoh Vinyl Recording
ED Well, personally, I don't have the LP, but if I did, I certainly would not want the degradation that a transfer to CD usually brings. Compare most of the early Astrée CDs and their CD transfers. However, these Astrée Lps also appeared under the Telefunken label, and these were even inferior to the CDs, so it does depend on the LP quality? I still play Anthony Bailes' EMI Reference LP, Pièces de luth, and prefer it sound-wise, to his more recent CD recordings. Anthony Le 1 févr. 09 à 02:54, Edward Martin a écrit : Unfortunately, there is no CD of it. It is one of my favorites. ed At 08:23 PM 1/31/2009 -0500, David Rastall wrote: Do any of you remember the old vinyl record set, from around 1970, of Toyohiko Satoh playing French lute music? I've been trying without success to find a CD of that recording. Have I missed something? Is there a CD version available somewhere? david r dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1926 - Release Date: 01/30/09 17:31:00 Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Sarge Gerbode web site
www.gerbode.net ps. your new CD is excellent! - Original Message - From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] Sarge Gerbode web site I have lost the link to Sarge Gerbode's web site of Fronimo files. Can someone please provide me the link? Thank you. ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Old Satoh Vinyl Recording
I agree, in that some digital transfers do not yield the best results. The old LP is a 2-record set, and it was and still is one of my favorite recordings. ed At 11:04 AM 2/1/2009 +0100, Anthony Hind wrote: ED Well, personally, I don't have the LP, but if I did, I certainly would not want the degradation that a transfer to CD usually brings. Compare most of the early Astrée CDs and their CD transfers. However, these Astrée Lps also appeared under the Telefunken label, and these were even inferior to the CDs, so it does depend on the LP quality? I still play Anthony Bailes' EMI Reference LP, Pièces de luth, and prefer it sound-wise, to his more recent CD recordings. Anthony Le 1 févr. 09 à 02:54, Edward Martin a écrit : Unfortunately, there is no CD of it. It is one of my favorites. ed At 08:23 PM 1/31/2009 -0500, David Rastall wrote: Do any of you remember the old vinyl record set, from around 1970, of Toyohiko Satoh playing French lute music? I've been trying without success to find a CD of that recording. Have I missed something? Is there a CD version available somewhere? david r dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1926 - Release Date: 01/30/09 17:31:00 Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1928 - Release Date: 01/30/09 17:31:00 Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Sarge Gerbode web site
Thank you Charles. Thanks to all who directed me to the site. ed At 02:04 PM 2/1/2009 +, Charles Browne wrote: www.gerbode.net ps. your new CD is excellent! - Original Message - From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:32 PM Subject: [LUTE] Sarge Gerbode web site I have lost the link to Sarge Gerbode's web site of Fronimo files. Can someone please provide me the link? Thank you. ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1928 - Release Date: 01/30/09 17:31:00 Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
There is that opening measure e. g. of Bocquet's allemande #7 (Vm7 6214 fol. 5) .2 31 1 1 1 1 ---|-a---#e-e-| -a-|-a'---r'---a--| ---|-a| ---|-a| ---|--| ---|--| . ///a If you execute the first comma as an appogiatura, you'll have a ninth on the opening chord of that piece. Does that seem right to you? A possible 9th in itself doesn't bother me. Neither me, personally. Yet after staying for a little while with music by Mesangeau, Vieux Gaultier, Bocquet, Bouvier et al, I found it quite out of place and order. Maybe that's a matter of taste, maybe not. but if the affect is that of a tombeau, the chord could be very effective, especially if there's time to bring out the dissonance with an expressive tire. Unfortunately, there's no hint that this is a tombeau. But, hey, I could claim it is one and play it accordingly. I'd be very suspicious of the 9th on the opening chord, however, mainly because an allemande nearly always begins with a melodic anticipation. That comma would therefore be an unprepared dissonance approached from below. The French lutenists were willing to break a lot of rules, but that's a bit much. *sighs* yes, that's what it seems to me, too, indeed. Thx! -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
Surely *any* ornament on that first chord is going to give a ninth. Accept it, and enjoy! P On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Mathias Roesel [1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: There is that opening measure e. g. of Bocquet's allemande #7 (Vm7 6214 fol. 5) .2 31 1 1 1 1 ---|-a---#e-e-| -a-|-a'---r'---a--| ---|-a| ---|-a| ---|--| ---|--| . ///a If you execute the first comma as an appogiatura, you'll have a ninth on the opening chord of that piece. Does that seem right to you? A possible 9th in itself doesn't bother me. Neither me, personally. Yet after staying for a little while with music by Mesangeau, Vieux Gaultier, Bocquet, Bouvier et al, I found it quite out of place and order. Maybe that's a matter of taste, maybe not. but if the affect is that of a tombeau, the chord could be very effective, especially if there's time to bring out the dissonance with an expressive tire. Unfortunately, there's no hint that this is a tombeau. But, hey, I could claim it is one and play it accordingly. I'd be very suspicious of the 9th on the opening chord, however, mainly because an allemande nearly always begins with a melodic anticipation. That comma would therefore be an unprepared dissonance approached from below. The French lutenists were willing to break a lot of rules, but that's a bit much. *sighs* yes, that's what it seems to me, too, indeed. Thx! -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Thesis (fwd)
Hello Valery - Did you go to http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/page54/index.php and ask Julia why? Wayne Subject: [LUTE] Thesis the link [1]http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/thesis/ to [2]English Lute Manuscripts and Scribes 1530-1630 by Julia Craig-McFeeley; a study of the English Lute Manuscripts of the so-called Golden Age, including a detailed catalogue of the sources. seems to be broken... Any idea ? Valery -- References 1. http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/thesis/ 2. http://www.ramesescats.co.uk/thesis/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill
In fact, an appoggiatura on the root is not uncommon, and does not obscure anything. As a matter of fact, it does ;) Charpentier, in fact, specifically writes the figure Sharp eight Don't know where is that, but Jerzy cited another example, i. e. Chahos by Rebel. So there are examples in specil cases. --and there are examples from many different styles, with many different harmonic implications. Would you mind to name just one? See, I'm not a prof, as I said. Yet just because a prof says many I don't see that tips the scales. Many without chaper and verse IMO is what Wikpedians call weasel words. Sorry, no offense intended. Lastly, the ninth chord is in itself a permanent appoggiatura, and the 9th strengthens the root--it is a very clear and forceful chord. You could say the same about a 4th suspension. Arnold Schönberg wrote a tombeau on occasion of Gustav Mahler's death (op. 19, Nr. 6, June 17th 1911). That piece is full of unresolved (correct word?) 4th chords. I said so when we heard that piano piece at school, but the teacher would bark at me that there was nothing unresolved, and I should come out of the baroque ghetto. Pieces beginning on a ninth chord go back to the middle ages, like pas de tor of Machaut. Machault is an exceptional composer, as I hope you will agree, and this is an exceptional piece (Fronimo score at http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Machaut/pas_de_tor/pas_de_tor_3.ft3 ). Are you suggesting there is nothing special to a ninth on the first chord in a baroque dance because Machault already had this in one of his triums some 300 years before? (I assume you're not suggesting this, I just want to make myseelf clear.) -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
Peter Martin peter.l...@gmail.com schrieb: Surely *any* ornament on that first chord is going to give a ninth. Yes, somewhen in due course. I'm not against ninths, I sometimes accept and enjoy them ;) The point at issue is, however, whether an ornament should put up the ninth before the actual root was heard. Simple shake (simplified): .4 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 (4 = crotchet, 2 = quaver, 1 = semiquaver) ---|-a--#e-e-| -a-|-a-r-a-r-a-r'--a-| ---|-a---| ---|-a---| ---|-| ---|-| . ///a Shake preceded by appogiatura (simplified): .4 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 (4 = crotchet, 2 = quaver, 1 = semiquaver) ---|---a--#e-e-| -a-|-r-a-r-a-r'--a-| ---|-a-| ---|-a-| ---|---| ---|---| . ///a Mathias Accept it, and enjoy! P On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Mathias Roesel [1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: There is that opening measure e. g. of Bocquet's allemande #7 (Vm7 6214 fol. 5) .2 31 1 1 1 1 ---|-a---#e-e-| -a-|-a'---r'---a--| ---|-a| ---|-a| ---|--| ---|--| . ///a If you execute the first comma as an appogiatura, you'll have a ninth on the opening chord of that piece. Does that seem right to you? A possible 9th in itself doesn't bother me. Neither me, personally. Yet after staying for a little while with music by Mesangeau, Vieux Gaultier, Bocquet, Bouvier et al, I found it quite out of place and order. Maybe that's a matter of taste, maybe not. but if the affect is that of a tombeau, the chord could be very effective, especially if there's time to bring out the dissonance with an expressive tire. Unfortunately, there's no hint that this is a tombeau. But, hey, I could claim it is one and play it accordingly. I'd be very suspicious of the 9th on the opening chord, however, mainly because an allemande nearly always begins with a melodic anticipation. That comma would therefore be an unprepared dissonance approached from below. The French lutenists were willing to break a lot of rules, but that's a bit much. *sighs* yes, that's what it seems to me, too, indeed. Thx! -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Viele Grüße Mathias Rösel http://mathiasroesel.livejournal.com http://www.myspace.com/mathiasroesel http://de.geocities.com/mathiasroesel
[LUTE] Re: French trill
I wasn't looking for the one and only appropiate execution of commas. The one and only appropiate execution shouldn't exist in music, and best if we end up with different solutions! For the welfare of United Colours of B... aroque Music. I'm suspicious that what I was actually looking for, was some support for the execution of commas as simple trills. Here is a salvation: If the music was by or for the Bocquets, then Mersenne (1635/6) solves the problem. In an English translation (Martinus Nijhoff /The Hague 1957 /repr. 1964) on page 107 he says: IV. On the ornamentation. Now the one which is formed in this fashion: , is called shake ordinarily, and most people use no other character to express all the different sorts [[JZ: sic!, meaning both upper and lower auxiliary, with two or more notes?]]; that is why I have not wished to change it, since it is familiar to everyone, so as not to use any novelty if it is not useful. But there are still other ornamentations which they call _accens plaintifs_, _martelemens_, _verves cassez_, and _battemens_, as we shall see at the end of this treatise. [[JZ: now -- ]] As for the first marked by this comma and used on the open string, it is necessary to consider two things for executing it well, that is, that the finger tip of the left hand, which ought to make this ornamentation, be well upon the string on which it is to be made and that the finger not be lifted from above the sad string, so that one perceives only that it has been played by the right hand. [...] Notwithstanding that Nijhoff renders the name as shake, the description rather comes down to vibrato, no? But now, in the light of this, I'd have another problem -- what to do with the next note (only melodic), also with the come after it. Shall we play too a simple trill or appogiatura from above (which I never liked in such situations) or perhaps from below, if Mersenne allowes the coma to express all the different sorts of ornaments -- ? In general, I prefer to play appogiature from the direction I'm coming, except the prescriptive sign reads otherwise. But if the source is late (say 1680) and the ornamental signs are from Brossard rather (or understood his way) then I wouldn't be quite sure about the simple trill from the main note. Now maybe DGautier, Gallot or Mouton is a better prompter -- ? That's what I meant to say by so there are some 30 years between this copy and its possible authors. 30 years of change in style and aesthetics... And what if a piece be called La Belle Homicide and found in the Augsburg fantastic JBHagen Collection, what is actually the case with the Beautifull Criminal -- ?! Not sure if I got you right... LBHom starts with an upbeat that almost completely sets the stage for what is to come. And what actually comes on the 1st beat of the 1 measure, is a play on 6th vs. 5th above the root. LBH is my favourite courante, but the beginning isn't exactly daring IMHO. On the other side perhaps is Frederick Neumann (Ornamentation in baroque and post baroque music: With Special Emphasis on J. S. Bach, 1983) who's shown good number of very nice exceptions and in fact, for some, definitely broke the magic rule. Thanks a lot for this hint! See, I'm not a prof like some others on this list. But here you have a different sign, a cross, which can be an inverted mordent or appogiatura from below -- I'd like the last one much here! ...But first I'd have to look at Mersenne again ;-))) Lacking a copy of Mersenne, I looked at the CNRS explanatory table. They say it's a mordent, and I like that, too, especially with an appogiatura ^_^ -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
The problem is, it is a long note and a simple ''shake/trill'' concisting of three notes (as one can surmise from Mersenne twisting description) biginning from the main note, is not enough. It is a long note and long notes invite something extra, something special. The well known Lacrimae by JD also in some sources begins with an ornamental sign on the third of its first chord (it is also a doted crochet). Does the Bocquet's Allemande (1640-1680) belongs to the earlier performance tradition (lets call it Dowland-Mersenne) or to the later one (say Brossard-Mouton)? I think it may be a question of our very personal taste and stylistic preference. Each style, to be rendered convincingly, needs to be very, very familiarized with it. A quick, intensive research is not enough. Sometime an answer to a tiny problem is somewhere between lines, to be rediscovered through years, and most refinements are permanently lost. Ornamentation is such a refinement. But lets not forget about ouerseves. Here and Now! We can not only keep reproducing the lost art, but also continue the ''school'' and bring forward new refinements. In fact sometinme it can be the only feasible thing, however some will insiste to call it HIP. J ___ Simple shake (simplified): .4 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 (4 = crotchet, 2 = quaver, 1 = semiquaver) ---|-a--#e-e-| -a-|-a-r-a-r-a-r'--a-| ---|-a---| ---|-a---| ---|-| ---|-| . ///a Shake preceded by appogiatura (simplified): .4 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 (4 = crotchet, 2 = quaver, 1 = semiquaver) ---|---a--#e-e-| -a-|-r-a-r-a-r'--a-| ---|-a-| ---|-a-| ---|---| ---|---| . ///a Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
Andreas, On 2009-02-01, at 18:50, Andreas Schlegel wrote: Here's what Denis Gaultier (or M.de Montarcis) wrote as last comment in rule 7 in the Livre de tablature (in French - for English translation see the article of Jorge Torres in the recent LSA Journal): ... mais il faut observer que chacun peut ménager ces especes d agreements, selon la nature du chant de la piece et du mouvement. What in the Torres translation reads: ''...But it must be observed that everyone can treat these kinds of ornaments, according to the nature of the piece’s melody and its tempo (mouvement).'' What now it may sound like: ...listen to the music arround and look how people are singing and playing similar passages; but if in doubt, come to my place, it's Rue de Vaugirard 7...'' But it was over 330 years ago, alas... Such is the ''precise nature'' of historical sources. We'd now need a cold technical instruction, which is hard to find. But even if it is somewhere, it's still not enough. It's music, and one needs and Artist to bring it to life again. He puts his stemp on it, which for some is a new religion, for others unacceptable. These are paradoxes of the so called historical music. J ___ Andreas Am 01.02.2009 um 17:52 schrieb Jerzy Zak: The problem is, it is a long note and a simple ''shake/trill'' concisting of three notes (as one can surmise from Mersenne twisting description) biginning from the main note, is not enough. It is a long note and long notes invite something extra, something special. The well known Lacrimae by JD also in some sources begins with an ornamental sign on the third of its first chord (it is also a doted crochet). Does the Bocquet's Allemande (1640-1680) belongs to the earlier performance tradition (lets call it Dowland- Mersenne) or to the later one (say Brossard-Mouton)? I think it may be a question of our very personal taste and stylistic preference. Each style, to be rendered convincingly, needs to be very, very familiarized with it. A quick, intensive research is not enough. Sometime an answer to a tiny problem is somewhere between lines, to be rediscovered through years, and most refinements are permanently lost. Ornamentation is such a refinement. But lets not forget about ouerseves. Here and Now! We can not only keep reproducing the lost art, but also continue the ''school'' and bring forward new refinements. In fact sometinme it can be the only feasible thing, however some will insiste to call it HIP. J ___ Simple shake (simplified): .4 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 (4 = crotchet, 2 = quaver, 1 = semiquaver) ---|-a--#e-e-| -a-|-a-r-a-r-a-r'--a-| ---|-a---| ---|-a---| ---|-| ---|-| . ///a Shake preceded by appogiatura (simplified): .4 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 (4 = crotchet, 2 = quaver, 1 = semiquaver) ---|---a--#e-e-| -a-|-r-a-r-a-r'--a-| ---|-a-| ---|-a-| ---|---| ---|---| . ///a Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Edin Karamazov Kaliopi Bukle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvP4uZjAf_k RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
Of course, the paradox concernes us, creators and consumers of music and our vision of the modern phenomenon called ''historical music''. It is a fancy interplay between science and art, it's a modern thing in music history -- isn't it?, and in a way quite logically it's ''modern music'' as well, however strange it may sound to all. J ___ On 2009-02-01, at 20:12, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: I agree, Jerzy, but isn't it rather the paradox(es) of so called historical musicians ...??? Jean-Marie ;-) === 01-02-2009 19:38:37 === These are paradoxes of the so called historical music. J To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
You should check out Bruce Haynes book The end of early music, it is a great antidote to the recent crisis that the HIP movement received from Taruskin's writings. You can read a few pages here http://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Early-Music-Performers-Twenty-first/dp/019518987 6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1233529394sr=8-1 Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jerzy Zak [mailto:jurek...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. Februar 2009 23:30 An: lute Betreff: [LUTE] Re: French trill? Of course, the paradox concernes us, creators and consumers of music and our vision of the modern phenomenon called ''historical music''. It is a fancy interplay between science and art, it's a modern thing in music history -- isn't it?, and in a way quite logically it's ''modern music'' as well, however strange it may sound to all. J ___ On 2009-02-01, at 20:12, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: I agree, Jerzy, but isn't it rather the paradox(es) of so called historical musicians ...??? Jean-Marie ;-) === 01-02-2009 19:38:37 === These are paradoxes of the so called historical music. J To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Off-Topic
Absolutely off-topic: has anybody seen these videos? [1]http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ -- References 1. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Rousseau - was: French trill?
The most powerful statement on HIP I know was written in 1768 by Jean- Jacques Rousseau in his Dictionnaire de musique, art. Notation p. 324: He speaks about concerts with antique Greek music: Nous la (la notation des Grecs) pourrions déchiffrer tout aussi exactement que les Grecs mêmes auroient pu faire : mais la phraser, l'accentuer, l'entendre, la juger; voilà ce qui n'est plus possible à personne qui ne le deviendra jamais. En toute Musique, ainsi qu'en toute Langue, déchiffrer lire sont deux choses très-différentes. Perhaps somebody can tranlate it - but be careful, because phrase and accent are keywords for the thinking of Rousseau. See those articles. Andreas Am 02.02.2009 um 01:02 schrieb Jerzy Zak: I know of the book but don't have it yet. But I know Taruskin also from a second hand relations. So I must tell, I don't feel as a victime of any crisis without access to medicine. Do you think I should apply myself the same mental disease? Obviously 25 years ago, when I was reading with flushes on my face all available (and unavailable) sources, listening to the stars of EM, giving interviews with myself (oh, yes)... I thought the early music movement will last for ever ;-)) Now I've happily forgotten 3/4 of those books and the feeling of a mission. Music will always be fresh and modern, whatever you could say about a particular style or a piece. One thing is well to remember -- we are permanently reproducing the past, either conciously or unconciously, including the music (not only since 1950s or 60s), just reproducing in different clothes. And in music, as in arts, the dress is the thing. So I wear my music as I like or am able... But I know ''the sources'', only my mics are not that good ;-)) J On 2009-02-02, at 00:10, Mark Wheeler wrote: You should check out Bruce Haynes book The end of early music, it is a great antidote to the recent crisis that the HIP movement received from Taruskin's writings. You can read a few pages here http://www.amazon.co.uk/End-Early-Music-Performers-Twenty-first/dp/ 019518987 6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1233529394sr=8-1 Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jerzy Zak [mailto:jurek...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. Februar 2009 23:30 An: lute Betreff: [LUTE] Re: French trill? Of course, the paradox concernes us, creators and consumers of music and our vision of the modern phenomenon called ''historical music''. It is a fancy interplay between science and art, it's a modern thing in music history -- isn't it?, and in a way quite logically it's ''modern music'' as well, however strange it may sound to all. J ___ On 2009-02-01, at 20:12, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote: I agree, Jerzy, but isn't it rather the paradox(es) of so called historical musicians ...??? Jean-Marie ;-) === 01-02-2009 19:38:37 === These are paradoxes of the so called historical music. J To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken +41 (0)62 771 47 07 lute.cor...@sunrise.ch --
[LUTE] Re: Off-Topic
Yes, and I'm part of the movement. On Feb 2, 2009, at 4:18 AM, Bruno Correia wrote: Absolutely off-topic: has anybody seen these videos? [1]http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ -- References 1. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: French trill?
On Feb 1, 2009, at 6:10 PM, Mark Wheeler wrote: You should check out Bruce Haynes book The end of early music I couldn't agree more. It's a very good read. Although Haynes is a strong advocate for the writing of new music in the Baroque style, which makes me balk a little bit. I'd rather go to original 17th- or 18th-Century sources than try to deal with French trills in something written last Tuesday. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
