[LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
Check the web for Hans Holbein's The Ambassadors. There is much information about the symbols in the painting, among which is a lute with a broken string (disharmony). A rather different time than the Dutch theorbo, of course. On May 9, 2009, at 5:06 AM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have an idea why the painter would go to the trouble of > painting a lute with broken strings - what meaning would that convey? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
Although all the comments are quite true, vanitas, etc, the broken string was originally a reference to several works of the Classics including Euripides. The following is from a Greek Votive inscription: DEDICATORY. 285 THE CICALA [CICADA]. rbv xo^kovp rimya. a i. 202. Phoebus, on thy shrine I place Thine own Cicala wrought in brass, Memorial of my victor crown, Eunomus of Locri's town ! To the lyre's sweet strife we came (Parthes was my rival's name). To the plectrum's touch of fire Scarce had rung the Locrian lyre ; With the sharp and sudden strain Burst the shrilling string in twain. Ere the halting harmony On the list'ning ear could die, Sat the insect, carolling Sweetly on the broken string, To the same unfailing note, Warbling from his mimic throat. dt __ From: Rob MacKillop To: Anthony Hind Cc: lute List Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 4:31:21 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online Broken strings was a typical way for the artist to show 'discord' between the subjects. The Amabassadors is another example. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Jaufre Rudel, Lanquan li jorn son lonc en may
Dear Collective Wisdom, I am looking for a song by Jaufre Rudel called "Lanquan li jorn son lonc en may" Do any of you have it in any digital format? Thanks a Million in advance!!! Best wishes Manuel Minguillon Nieto [1]www.manuelminguillon.com [2]i...@manuelminguillon.com -- References 1. http://www.manuelminguillon.com/ 2. mailto:i...@manuelminguillon.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] OT(?) a translation of Lully?
Dear lutenisnts, especially French lutenists, perhaps this slightly off topic, but I just played to the tubes a solo theorbo arrangement of one song by Lully: Heureux qui peut plaire (Cadmus et Hermione, 1673). Playing this kind of "hard-core" stuff is a little tricky - you need to know also the text, and also the listeners need to know it, I suppose. Quite similiar also with the renaissance intabulations? Anyhow, I made a "Google translation", which is far from perfect. And now to my question: Is there any kind French soul there, who could correct my machine translation to proper English? (The tube-addresses of the solo are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQXZCHytpY http://www.vimeo.com/4548408 ) So here is the text and its machine translation: Jean-Baptiste Lully: Heureux qui peut plaire [from 'Cadmus et Hermione', 1673] Palès, Melisse et Pan (ensemble): Heureux qui peut plaire! Heureux les amants! Leurs jours sont charmants: L'Amour sçait leur faire Mille doux moments. Que sert la jeunesse Aux coeurs sans tendresse? Qui n'a point d'amour N'a pas un beau jour. Second couplet En vain l'Hiver passe, En vain dans les champs Tout charme nos sens, Une âme de glace N'a point de Printemps. Il faut se défaire d'un coeur trop sévère, Qui n'a point d'Amour N'a pas un beau jour. - "Google translation" to English: Happy those that can be pleased! Happy lovers! Their days are charming: Love them sçait Thousand sweet moments. That serves youth In hearts without love? Who did not love Does not have a beautiful day. Second verse In vain the winter, In vain in the fields Any charm our senses, Soul of ice Spring did not. We must get rid a heart too severe Who did not love Does not have a beautiful day. Thanks in advance! All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute and recorder duo scores
I think it's unlikely that William Croft wrote for the lute. Croft did publish (composed with 'An Italian Gentleman' - who I think was in fact the non-Italian Gottfried Finger) a set of sonatas for flute and continuo. A modern edition of these was published a few years ago (can't remember who edited/published I'm afraid). I haven't heard Jakob Lindberg and Clas Pehrsson's recording but I'd guess they adapted these flute sonatas... Andrew On 8 May 2009, at 13:37, Nicolás Valencia wrote: > There's an interesting recording by Jakob Lindberg and Clas > Pehrsson from > 1984 called "Italian and English Music for Recorder and Lute". They > clearly > adapted some pieces for other instruments (Selma y Salaverde, > Castello, > Montalbano), but they also play some preludes and grounds as well > as sonatas > (Parcham, Croft, Finger) apparently written for recorder with lute > accompaniment. I was wondering if this kind of music was available > in score > somewhere. > > Regards, > > Nicolás -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature?
You can see this denss florilegium with the handwritten pieces online: http://mdz10.bib-bvb.de/~db/0003/bsb00031268/images/index.html Greetings W. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Stephan Olbertz Gesendet: Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 19:36 An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature? I seem to recall some handwritten pieces on the blank staves of Denss' Florilegium, in the copy which was used for the Tree Edition selection. There must be some more fragments, someone suggested the name Valencinian tablature because there seem to be connections to Valencia other than through Luis Milan. Ragards, Stephan -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: "howard posner" Gesendet: 07.05.09 19:50:54 An: lutelist Net Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature? I suppose I would have made it easier for everyone, particularly Reinier de Valk, if I'd asked the actual question I'm trying to answer, which is whether Milan's tablature can correctly be called "unique." On May 7, 2009, at 10:22 AM, Stewart McCoy wrote: > There are four short pieces for the four-course guitar in Barberiis' > _Libro Decimo_ (venice, 1549). The pieces are described as "Fantasie > per sonar sopra la Chitara da sette corde". The tablature for all the > lute pieces in the book is Italian, but it is Spanish/ Milan tablature > for the guitar pieces. Thus dispatching "unique." -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Verschicken Sie SMS direkt vom Postfach aus - in alle deutschen und viele ausländische Netze zum gleichen Preis! https://produkte.web.de/webde_sms/sms
[LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature?
I seem to recall some handwritten pieces on the blank staves of Denss' Florilegium, in the copy which was used for the Tree Edition selection. There must be some more fragments, someone suggested the name Valencinian tablature because there seem to be connections to Valencia other than through Luis Milan. Ragards, Stephan -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: "howard posner" Gesendet: 07.05.09 19:50:54 An: lutelist Net Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature? I suppose I would have made it easier for everyone, particularly Reinier de Valk, if I'd asked the actual question I'm trying to answer, which is whether Milan's tablature can correctly be called "unique." On May 7, 2009, at 10:22 AM, Stewart McCoy wrote: > There are four short pieces for the four-course guitar in Barberiis' > _Libro Decimo_ (venice, 1549). The pieces are described as > "Fantasie per > sonar sopra la Chitara da sette corde". The tablature for all the lute > pieces in the book is Italian, but it is Spanish/ Milan tablature for > the guitar pieces. Thus dispatching "unique." -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Verschicken Sie SMS direkt vom Postfach aus - in alle deutschen und viele ausländische Netze zum gleichen Preis! https://produkte.web.de/webde_sms/sms
[LUTE] Ang: Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
Dear list, there certainly are a number of possible interpretations of such paintings. We can be sure that most of the details of such a painting have a symbolic meaning which was clear to the viewer of that time but is more obscure to a contemporary ditto. I would advise a very humble attitude to this difficult issue and one should be careful not to over- or underinteprete the information on the paintings. I have published an article in the yearbook of the nationalmuseum of Sweden, Lutor och lutspel i två målningar av Ferdinand Bol och Michael Dahl [Musiken i konsten - Det klingande 1600-talet. En konstbok från Nationalmuseum redigerad av Karin Sidén. Nationalmusei årsbok 47, Stockholm 2001 pp. 59-89] which deals with this problem. Unfortunately this article is at present only in Swedish. This article deals with two painting in the museum with lute motifs. I particularly stress that it is important that several professions are involved in the interpretation of these paintings (art historians, music instrument reserachers, music history reserachers etc.) I think a close cooperation between these disciplines could provid interesting interpretations. Best wishes Kenneth Sparr www.tabulatura.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
Le 8 mai 09 à 16:31, Rob MacKillop a écrit : Broken strings was a typical way for the artist to show 'discord' between the subjects. The Amabassadors is another example. I thought that broken strings symbilized the danger of general dischord, rather than dischord between the two subjects, in the case of the Ambassadors (or even the transcience of life), whereas here, they could possibly express the transience of a certain type of relation. Presumably, the message is sensual, as shown by the almost inclined posture of the gambist, in line with the ladies skirts. There are two ropes, above the "musicians" sort of conventionally interlinking the two together, but neither looks at the other, and the broken strings perhaps show that the brief harmony of a sensuous moment is over. as David says, "but what's far more interesting: she's holding the instrument left- handedly, right hand crossing all the diapassons, and is rather in the way of the gentleman's bow. But the doggy knows what it's all about: a pretty girl with a lute!" Anthony Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
Dear Rob, dear all, sometimes a broken string hinted at the vanity of all things, too (the portrait of Ochsenkhun in his tablature book comes to my mind). And doesn't the women hold the instrument the wrong way round, so that she must reach around the bass strings? Strange couple, indeed! All best, Joachim "Rob MacKillop" schrieb: >Broken strings was a typical way for the artist to show 'discord' >between the subjects. The Amabassadors is another example. > > > >Rob > >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- Joachim Lüdtke, Lektorat & Korrektorat Dr. Joachim Lüdtke Blumenstraße 20 D - 90762 Fürth Tel. +49-+911 / 976 45 20
[LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
Broken strings was a typical way for the artist to show 'discord' between the subjects. The Amabassadors is another example. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
If you zoom in on the gamba, the top string is broken on that too. They must both be playing "props", but it is strange to underline that. Anthony Le 8 mai 09 à 15:15, Martin Eastwell a écrit : If you zoom in, it seems that the lute has one or more carefully painted broken strings. She's not just holding the lute the wrong way round, but the lute itself is unplayable! Martin On 8/5/09 13:55, "David van Ooijen" wrote: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:20 PM, wrote: Sotheby's New York will be auctioning a Dutch painting of a theorbo & gamba (the woman doesn't appear to know how to hold a theorbo I'd call that a Dutch-head lute or possibly English theorbo, but what's far more interesting: she's holding the instrument left-handedly, right hand crossing all the diapassons, and is rather in the way of the gentleman's bow. But the doggy knows what it's all about: a pretty girl with a lute! Great painting, thanks for diverting my attention from tax paper (nearly finished!) to something else. David & there are interesting f-holes on the gamba) LOT 45 ADRIAEN VAN DER WERFF, EGLON HENDRICK VAN DER NEER ADRIAEN VAN DER WERFF, KRALINGEN-AMBACHT 1659 - 1722 ROTTERDAM; EGLON HENDRICK VAN DER NEER, AMSTERDAM CIRCA 1634 - 1703 DÜSSELDORF A LADY PLAYING THE LUTE AND A GENTLEMAN WITH A VIOLA DA GAMBA It can be seen at: http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159539118 Estimated price 100,000 - 150,000 dollars US Good luck bidding! trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dutch theorbo painting online
On May 8, 2009, at 9:55 PM, David van Ooijen wrote: >> Sotheby's New York will be auctioning a Dutch painting of a >> theorbo & gamba >> >> >> (the woman doesn't appear to know how to hold a theorbo Judging from the broken strings she must be playing it with a razor blade. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute and recorder duo scores
Thanks to all for your kind help. If anyone is interested in free scores of recorder and lute duo with tablature, Eugene Vincent published some pieces on his site at: http://www.geocities.com/ebienvenue/luteandrecorderlist.htm. Some of them are adaptations of lute duos, dances, violin pieces, etc. There's an interesting recording by Jakob Lindberg and Clas Pehrsson from 1984 called "Italian and English Music for Recorder and Lute". They clearly adapted some pieces for other instruments (Selma y Salaverde, Castello, Montalbano), but they also play some preludes and grounds as well as sonatas (Parcham, Croft, Finger) apparently written for recorder with lute accompaniment. I was wondering if this kind of music was available in score somewhere. Regards, Nicolás -Mensaje original- De: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] En nombre de Christopher Stetson Enviado el: viernes, 08 de mayo de 2009 05:37 Para: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Asunto: [LUTE] Re: Lute and recorder duo scores One can always use lute songs. Perhaps not technically challenging for the recorder player, but it will provide a large repertoire. C. >>> Steve Ramey 5/8/2009 12:29 AM >>> Not lute and recorder, but there are at least two vol's of a book called "Bach for Recorder and Guitar". There's also one of "Teleman for Recorder and Guitar." If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll dig at least one of them out to find publisher info. Steve __ From: Jim Abraham To: Nicolas Valencia Cc: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:04:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute and recorder duo scores Hey me too. My wife is trying to play the recorder, and though I've found duets for recorder and guitar, nothing yet for recorder and lute. Jim 2009/5/7 Nicolas Valencia <[1][1]niva...@gmail.com> Dear All, Im looking for music scores on Internet for lute (renaissance or baroque) and recorder (all registers). Any suggestion please? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[3]niva...@gmail.com 2. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:niva...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. mailto:niva...@gmail.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature?
Tree edition has the Easy Duets by Anne Bailes-Van Royen which has a separate score for a melody instrument like recorder, violin... Greet -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens Christopher Stetson Verzonden: vrijdag 8 mei 2009 2:40 Aan: lutelist Net Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: Milan's tablature? Hi, all. I have (somewhere in a pile of music) a publication from about 1900 outlining newly invented "character" notation for guitar which was essentially modern guitar tab: fret numbers on 6-line staves with (redundantly) parallel staff notation and without (annoyingly) rhythmic notation on the tab. Didn't catch on, though, so had to be reinvented mid-century. Tablature may be the most frequently invented musical notation. Best, and keep playing. Chris. >>> 5/7/2009 4:52 PM >>> On Thu, May 7, 2009, David van Ooijen said: > On a side note: when did modern guitar TAB (equals Milan's) arise? I have heard talk of Mel Bay editions. before 1960, which is when I took up guitar. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute and recorder duo scores
One can always use lute songs. Perhaps not technically challenging for the recorder player, but it will provide a large repertoire. C. >>> Steve Ramey 5/8/2009 12:29 AM >>> Not lute and recorder, but there are at least two vol's of a book called "Bach for Recorder and Guitar". There's also one of "Teleman for Recorder and Guitar." If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll dig at least one of them out to find publisher info. Steve __ From: Jim Abraham To: Nicolas Valencia Cc: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:04:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute and recorder duo scores Hey me too. My wife is trying to play the recorder, and though I've found duets for recorder and guitar, nothing yet for recorder and lute. Jim 2009/5/7 Nicolas Valencia <[1][1]niva...@gmail.com> Dear All, Im looking for music scores on Internet for lute (renaissance or baroque) and recorder (all registers). Any suggestion please? Regards, Nicolas -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[3]niva...@gmail.com 2. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:niva...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. mailto:niva...@gmail.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
