[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
The video boom will continue, you will just see more and more edited stuff, along with some new names, and some famous names as well. But many of the internationally known names on all instruments--especially piano and violin, but lute, viol, harpsichord, etc, have been waiting for the editing tools to be available, and now that they are here, I think you will see a lot of players of all instruments join in. I can tell you from a technical point of vview, it is really impossible to tell if it has been edited. So it is just the end of one age and the beginning of another. I never liked CDs, because of all the editing--between 700 and 2,000 per CD, and it is a shame to see video go the same way. But there will be many beautiful performances captured, and people all over the world can see it. dt At 10:57 PM 10/10/2009, you wrote: I agree with Rob's point of view, Being alone far from people and cities, videos are may way to share music with others, and an open window on the world (so many people I virtually met since I post) and of course not a professional promo, as I've nothing to sale... ;-) Sharing passion... (I'm near one million views now... I never believe it could be possible one day, but so little regarding some rock and roll vids...) Golden age ? over ? why... For my sake I will go one as long as I can do it. and I don't see so many professional edited videos of lute music. Yes a few... But I would love to have more and more of Jacob Herringman, Paul O'Dette, Robert Barto (some already, thanks Danny, and for Ronn too) but not enough... V. - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop luteplay...@googlemail.com I always viewed the video phenomenon as a meeting in the park or in the bar, where a few of us share a few tunes and chat about our passion for music. I never saw it as a professional promo. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] million hits
V.-- where are you getting a million hits? Inquiring minds want to know--I'll click on all of them! d To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
I imagine the 'folk' culture of playing to a camera in your kitchen/computer room, whatever, will continue, and yes, we will have posh promo videos from 'signed' artists and would-bees, especially young recently-qualified students looking to make their mark. The casual viewer can look forward to a lot more videos. I haven't quite reached a million hits (wow!) but the number of plays far outnumbers the number of CDs I've sold, or mp3 files downloaded. It is the primary medium for reaching people. For those of us interested in sound, this is not a good thing as the sound tends to be poor, and usually played on crap computer speakers. I remember reading about some studies a computer science lab had done on audience perception at a classical concert. 90 per cent was visual. Only 7 percent was aural. And of that 7 per cent, 83 per cent was given to the obvious mistakes! It is little wonder videos are so popular, and why some artists want to hide their mistakes... Rob PS David, glad you liked my De Visee! I can't play it now, so it's good to have a reminder! Proof for my grandchildren :-) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: million hits
I just see on account option on my channel, it says videos views : 966927, not a million yet... for 393 videos. (I working to get the 400th... then to the ones who want to visit me I'll offer the Champagne ;-) Val - Original Message - From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: [LUTE] million hits V.-- where are you getting a million hits? Inquiring minds want to know--I'll click on all of them! d To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] de Rippe facsimiles
I was searching for online facsimiles of Albert de Rippe. Bayerische Staatsbibliothek, Rostock University library, Paris Bibliotheque Nationale, Brussels Bibliotheque Royale, all these places that have copies of the books. Nothing. Then, finally, on Sarge Gerbode's site - bingo! No less than five books. Thank you, Sarge, for your fantastic work in making this music available. [1]http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Rippe/ Peter -- References 1. http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Rippe/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
David: We have been reading your observations with some interest and wondering a little why you chose to make them proximate to our video posting yesterday. The nicely edited video you posted last week did in fact inspire Donna to try her hand at making a silk purse from the ridiculously bad windows movie maker, which introduced some abrupt cuts that were made worse by Youtube. But we're puzzled why you didn't make your comments in reference to your own video. Our video was from a session at a local recording venue, which is an acoustically pleasing old church. The audio, which was unedited, was by a professional engineer but the video was from a few cheap cameras, one of which had an amateur behind it. Nothing so smooth as the very professional steady hand that zoomed so well on your Monteverdi video. We really had nothing to prove here - no position on meantone tuning or anything else that would have prompted Zappa to say shut up and play your guitar. We were just interested in the reaction people might have if we spent a few moments cleaning up the visuals and shared what we thought was some good music played well with conviction and commitment. The experiment has produced some interesting results. Yes, we're bridging the gap a bit, as we are professionals who still have the true amateur's love for the music, but we are by no means new. (You forget that I used to play in a band with your old chum Brad-the teller of stories, so I know I've been around longer.) A difference is that we have not had the funding and support that some other early music professionals enjoy. Our CDs have minimal editing because we simply can't afford to go the typical route and piece together bits from many takes. Our CD, Divine Amarillis, was recorded, mixed and finished in ten hours of studio time with no edits. Our Oxford CD was made in six weeks from idea to delivery of the manufactured CD. Our most recent CD took a little more time but each piece was a complete take. We may be old-fashioned but we think this approach gives the music a chance. We'll continue to experiment with visuals, since it seems to have become the standard, a fact reinforced by your pronouncement, but our music is the real thing. Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:10:39 -0700 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age The video boom will continue, you will just see more and more edited stuff, along with some new names, and some famous names as well. But many of the internationally known names on all instruments--especially piano and violin, but lute, viol, harpsichord, etc, have been waiting for the editing tools to be available, and now that they are here, I think you will see a lot of players of all instruments join in. I can tell you from a technical point of vview, it is really impossible to tell if it has been edited. So it is just the end of one age and the beginning of another. I never liked CDs, because of all the editing--between 700 and 2,000 per CD, and it is a shame to see video go the same way. But there will be many beautiful performances captured, and people all over the world can see it. dt At 10:57 PM 10/10/2009, you wrote: I agree with Rob's point of view, Being alone far from people and cities, videos are may way to share music with others, and an open window on the world (so many people I virtually met since I post) and of course not a professional promo, as I've nothing to sale... ;-) Sharing passion... (I'm near one million views now... I never believe it could be possible one day, but so little regarding some rock and roll vids...) Golden age ? over ? why... For my sake I will go one as long as I can do it. and I don't see so many professional edited videos of lute music. Yes a few... But I would love to have more and more of Jacob Herringman, Paul O'Dette, Robert Barto (some already, thanks Danny, and for Ronn too) but not enough... V. - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop luteplay...@googlemail.com I always viewed the video phenomenon as a meeting in the park or in the bar, where a few of us share a few tunes and chat about our passion for music. I never saw it as a professional promo. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
David, et al, Has anyone caught the irony of the fact that in our current musical culture, the (very commercial) rock music crowd is inherently mistrustful of recordings that sound too slick while we (very, very non-commercial) classical and early music types obsess over making our recordings sound as technically perfect as possible? The rockers, coming at their craft with virtually no regard or even concept of historical performance, view an overly-produced-sounding-recording as some kind of inauthentic representation of the genre, while a large contingent of us HIPsters strive to manufacture the most homogeneous product. That's gotta say something about us. Chris --- On Sat, 10/10/09, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, October 10, 2009, 6:52 PM I'm not saying it is a bad thing, I'm just saying it is the end of an era. We have a number of unedited videos from this period, and now it is not really possible to tell new videos are edited or not. Or people want them edited, and so on. I think this period served as a sort of reality check compared to years and years of heavily edited CDs. There is no stopping technology, and in the future we will see the same thing in video, flawless performances, and so on. I don't consider reverb or removing refrigerator sounds editing so music as processing. Same goes for color correction. By editing I mean the matching of different takes to remove all the mistakes., not just changing camera angles. Interestingly enough, even in the dawn of the CD age, there never was a similar period--the digital audio was sometimes even rerecorded to tape, cut with scissors, and then put back on CD. There are also early CDs before the development of digital crossfade tools where the takes are just spliced together with no fade--just a kind of bumping sound. I think what Rob is saying about the real sound is true, although obviously the amount of reverb is variable. But CDs aren't true in the performance sense. I do look forward to 3D! I'm already experimentingit is almost here And hopefully live concerts will continue. I think what CDs ceated was kind of a class issue--well funded artists with big recording companies could produce near perfect recordings. I'm seeing stuff on the net now that obviously cost tens of thousands of dollars, and makes the artists look very good indeed. And hey, maybe that is a good thing. I'll go work on learning my new hair plugin. And lose me a few pounds :) dt Hey, maybe it is a good thing. At 02:31 PM 10/10/2009, you wrote: I don't know, David. When was it decided that the artistic performance should be real? Sounds like a New Puritanism to me, and these movements rarely last long. I agree that it has been an interesting period, and one that I imagine will continue for some time yet. Editing: I only ever added reverb, which I wouldn't say effected the performance. My use of reverb lessened over time, and now I use none or so little it is almost impossible to detect. The problem is that with no sound shaping, just a dry recording, the resultant sound did not sound like it did when I was playing. So which is the real sound? None of the above. The use of reverb was an attempt to give an impression of the sound I heard, but I never managed it. Of course, I spent no more than 100 GB Pounds... I always viewed the video phenomenon as a meeting in the park or in the bar, where a few of us share a few tunes and chat about our passion for music. I never saw it as a professional promo. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
I've not yet put myself playing on line, but rather hope that one day I'll feel confident enough to do so. I doubt that I'll ever have the equipment necessary to edit myself. But I also wonder if I would want to do that. I think now (will my views change?) that if I'm not able to give a presentable performance of a piece without editing, that I would simply wait until I were able to. Thus far, I've assumed that everything I've seen on line has been unedited, and I've been very impressed by these performances. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:17 AM, nedma...@aol.com wrote: I've not yet put myself playing on line, but rather hope that one day I'll feel confident enough to do so. I doubt that I'll ever have the equipment necessary to edit myself. But I also wonder if I would want to do that. I think now (will my views change?) that if I'm not able to give a presentable performance of a piece without editing, that I would simply wait until I were able to. Thus far, I've assumed that everything I've seen on line has been unedited, and I've been very impressed by these performances. If you're primary concern is self-promotion, or if you live in a world where no differentiation exists between iconography and real life, then yes, you're going to want to edit yourself. But if neither the arrogance rat-race nor the dream world appeal to you, and all you want to do is share your music-making with others, warts and all, just for the love of the lute, which I've always believef was the reason for having the lute list in the first place, then I don't see that the Golden Age Is Over. That's nonsense. Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
The rockers. . .view an overly-produced-sounding-recording as some kind of inauthentic representation of the genre. . . Unless a rock recording is from a live performance, this seems to me an ingenuous view. Even on a performance stage, rock musicians are totally reliant on electronic processing for their sound; in a studio the processing is even far greater. If it doesn't sound slick to the consumer, it's because the engineers have taken great care to make sure it doesn't. Just my view. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: million hits
I see it now--that is fantastic! It is really interesting because in addition to your great playing, this provides a statistcal base--the most popular is Greensleeves, even more popular than Bach--and so on. It also looks like in order to make the lute more popular, which is my goal of course, it really is important to have a wide variety. Also 400 videos is pretty amazing, I have 44 and I'm exhausted. Congratulations! dt At 12:16 AM 10/11/2009, you wrote: I just see on account option on my channel, it says videos views : 966927, not a million yet... for 393 videos. (I working to get the 400th... then to the ones who want to visit me I'll offer the Champagne ;-) Val - Original Message - From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: [LUTE] million hits V.-- where are you getting a million hits? Inquiring minds want to know--I'll click on all of them! d To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: de Rippe facsimiles
Sarge rocks dt At 04:20 AM 10/11/2009, you wrote: I was searching for online facsimiles of Albert de Rippe. Bayerische Staatsbibliothek, Rostock University library, Paris Bibliotheque Nationale, Brussels Bibliotheque Royale, all these places that have copies of the books. Nothing. Then, finally, on Sarge Gerbode's site - bingo! No less than five books. Thank you, Sarge, for your fantastic work in making this music available. [1]http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Rippe/ Peter -- References 1. http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/Rippe/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
Ron--sorry about the timing, there is always a video coming out, I was thinking specifically about some commercial early music video which shall remain nameless. I should have waited for a lull. dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: million hits
Would it count if one of us quickly hits you up 393 times? (Getting a little thirsty-) I just see on account option on my channel, it says videos views : 966927, not a million yet... for 393 videos. (I working to get the 400th... then to the ones who want to visit me I'll offer the Champagne ;-) Val -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: million hits
And me being proud some of my videos nearing 1000 hits ... Congratulations, Valéry, you deserve it! David - Carmenère will do, right? -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
From the heart and to the point. I agree wholeheartedly. It's what I will tell my students, when any of them feel the need to record present themselves. The amateur (in the best, original sense of the word) videos seem to also be a new venue for student concerts, of a sort. I've not yet put myself playing on line, but rather hope that one day I'll feel confident enough to do so. I doubt that I'll ever have the equipment necessary to edit myself. But I also wonder if I would want to do that. I think now (will my views change?) that if I'm not able to give a presentable performance of a piece without editing, that I would simply wait until I were able to. Thus far, I've assumed that everything I've seen on line has been unedited, and I've been very impressed by these performances. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
Maybe that is true, but there are thousands of CDs--maybe in some sense those recordings are some sort of dream world :) I don't think the unedited videos will stop. I just think we are now in a new stage. And the former one was like a real window into what we were really doing, or about as real as it could be. dt And On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:17 AM, nedma...@aol.com wrote: I've not yet put myself playing on line, but rather hope that one day I'll feel confident enough to do so. I doubt that I'll ever have the equipment necessary to edit myself. But I also wonder if I would want to do that. I think now (will my views change?) that if I'm not able to give a presentable performance of a piece without editing, that I would simply wait until I were able to. Thus far, I've assumed that everything I've seen on line has been unedited, and I've been very impressed by these performances. If you're primary concern is self-promotion, or if you live in a world where no differentiation exists between iconography and real life, then yes, you're going to want to edit yourself. But if neither the arrogance rat-race nor the dream world appeal to you, and all you want to do is share your music-making with others, warts and all, just for the love of the lute, which I've always believef was the reason for having the lute list in the first place, then I don't see that the Golden Age Is Over. That's nonsense. Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
Maybe that is true, but there are thousands of CDs--maybe in some sense those recordings are some sort of dream world :) I don't think the unedited videos will stop. I just think we are now in a new stage. Editing is a feature of most commercial releases, for several decades now, long before digital technology entered the scene. Audio editing used to be a significant challenge using analog procedures, but with todays digital editing software it is far simpler. Video editing, even with software, should be more difficult as the several parallel video and audio tracks will have different splice points for maximal smoothness. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
Ned, --- On Sun, 10/11/09, nedma...@aol.com nedma...@aol.com wrote: From: nedma...@aol.com nedma...@aol.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age To: chriswi...@yahoo.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, vidan...@sbcglobal.net Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 10:50 AM The rockers. . .view an overly-produced-sounding-recording as some kind of inauthentic representation of the genre. . . Unless a rock recording is from a live performance, this seems to me an ingenuous view. Even on a performance stage, rock musicians are totally reliant on electronic processing for their sound; in a studio the processing is even far greater. If it doesn't sound slick to the consumer, it's because the engineers have taken great care to make sure it doesn't. Just my view. Quite right. But that's why I was careful to write overly-produced-_sounding_ rather than just overly-produced. Many rock/pop artists sound absolutely wretched without editing and a bunch of studio bells and whistles. There's lots of overdubbing, too. None the less, some sort of unpolished character is expected. Meanwhile, big names in our field try to get everything to sound even. The result is no less artificial than a rock/pop recording, but it ends up being far blander. Its a professional standard that never existed in early music and is unfortunately detrimental to the art. Hmmm, maybe we should try to remember who sells more and think twice before editing out every last fret buzz. Chris Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: million hits
I would brag about my 350,000 hits, except that 1/3 of those are for Barto's videos on my site! Danny On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 1:31 PM, David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote: And me being proud some of my videos nearing 1000 hits ... Congratulations, Valery, you deserve it! David - Carmenere will do, right? -- *** David van Ooijen [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 3. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The End of the Golden Age
From: Rob MacKillop [1]luteplay...@googlemail.com I haven't quite reached a million hits (wow!) but the number of plays far outnumbers the number of CDs I've sold, or mp3 files downloaded. It is the primary medium for reaching people. For those of us interested in sound, this is not a good thing as the sound tends to be poor, and usually played on crap computer speakers. Hello Rob, Take a look at this link [2]http://prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryId/343/Over-the-Limit-2-Th e-End-of-the-Loudness-War.aspx to an article by Rip Rowan of prorec fame. In the comments section at the bottom, mp3-is-not-the-answer mentions a hope for a new mp4 format that will be standardized and have much better and consistant sound quality than the current non-standardized mp3s. Computer speakers themselves do tend to be low-end. But don't a lot people download the music from the computer to play it on their mp3 players through decent headphones/earbuds? You might like to check out the archives to the Linux Audio Users group or join their mailing list to find out some of the interesting things going on in the world of music played on and made by computers. [3]http://lad.linuxaudio.org/subscribe/lau.html Best, The Other Stephen Stubbs. -- References 1. mailto:luteplay...@googlemail.com 2. http://prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryId/343/Over-the-Limit-2-The-End-of-the-Loudness-War.aspx 3. http://lad.linuxaudio.org/subscribe/lau.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
