[LUTE] Re: Transcription
That is my exact preference :) d At 03:01 PM 1/6/2010, you wrote: >Personal preference only: >I like to read my lute music from treble/bass clef, with only space >for one ledger line (for middle c) in the middle. >If the upper part is rather lowish, though, I prefer the top staff to >be in tenor cleff, but with more space in between the staves, so there >will not be so much staff-crossing. >Bit of a bother to get used to, but actually alto cleff in single >staff is very good for much lute music without too many basses. > >But I assume the transciptions are not to be played by lutenists, who >will turn to the tablature anyway, but for the readers to read. Then >double staff (treble and bass clefs) is the most obvious choice. It'll >give you more chance to make voice leading clear and add whatever >'footntes' within the music. Single staff can be so crowded. > >David > >On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote= >: > > However, the first edition of Sor's Op.7 looks decidedly weird to me, > > occasionally for the exact reasons Chris described. =A0Also, Sor's "trebl= >e" > > staff shifts around between true treble and C clefs. =A0The latter places > > middle C where b is ordinarily notated for guitar on a single suboctave > > treble clef...a half-step shift from guitar convention; talk about a > > difficult mental transposition! =A0Op.7 material on the truly treble staf= >f > > clumps to the bottom of its range and is often on ledger lines below. =A0= >Etc. > > Rather than the treble-clef/oddly-positioned-C-clef along with bass-clef > > two-staff system, it might have been better to run with coupling the > > customary suboctave treble to bass staff throughout. =A0I would never end= >eavor > > to read from that edition. > > > > For anybody who has read guitar music before, it certainly is easier to r= >ead > > Sor's Op.7 from the second edition (where Sor recanted and returned to mo= >re > > common guitar notation). =A0Perhaps this is because of habit alone, but a > > suboctave treble clef just seems best suited to guitar's melody range. > > > > Best, > > Eugene > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > >> Behalf Of Peter Martin > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:38 PM > >> To: Lute list > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transcription > >> > >> =A0 =A0Giuliani, maybe, but not Sor. =A0 He published his Fantaisie opus= > 7 on > >> =A0 =A0two staves, with an Avertissement at the beginning to explain why= > this > >> =A0 =A0was so much better than using a single treble-clef stave. > >> > >> =A0 =A0Although he abandoned the attempt for his other 62 opuses (opera?= >), I > >> =A0 =A0think he was absolutely right. =A0The music is much clearer like = >this. > >> > >> =A0 =A0P > >> =A0 =A02010/1/6 <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> > >> > >> =A0 =A0 =A0Ron, > >> > >> =A0 =A0--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ron Andrico <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0The conventional two-stave keyboard > >> =A0 =A0> transcription is probably the most > >> =A0 =A0> =A0 =A0useful and appropriate format for > >> =A0 =A0> academic purposes. > >> > >> =A0 =A0 =A0Sorry, but I disagree. =A0Transcribing Kapsperger's music on = >two > >> =A0 =A0 =A0staves makes as much sense as putting pieces by Giuliani, Tar= >rega or > >> =A0 =A0 =A0Villa-Lobos onto two staves. =A0As you point out, though, thi= >s > >> =A0 =A0 =A0incredibly wasteful use of paper is still the standard in aca= >demic > >> =A0 =A0 =A0circles. > >> > >> =A0 =A0-- > >> > >> References > >> > >> =A0 =A01. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com > >> =A0 =A02. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com > >> > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > >--=20 >*** >David van Ooijen >davidvanooi...@gmail.com >www.davidvanooijen.nl >***
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
The todays categories don't work for the decades from 1580 to 1620. It's a period in which several experiments were undertaken. As far I know there are only very vew persons who studied the instrumental development in this time: Linda Sayce and Renato Meucci, f.ex. So it's a field for deep investigations with an open mind. We have to study the prints, manuscripts, iconographic sources, instruments - a very wide field. The categories pointed out by Robert Spencer were very good and useful starting points - but we have to notice now that the history is much more complex. Andreas Am 06.01.2010 um 21:45 schrieb Bruno Correia: > That's true Andreas. Do you think he played an 11 course or an archlute with > 11 courses? > > Regards. > > 2010/1/6 Andreas Schlegel > Kapsberger's first book for lute rerquires a 11 course instrument (p. 28-29). > > I'm just working on Kapsberger's instruments he used - a tricky question! > > > > > Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken +41 (0)62 771 47 07 lute.cor...@sunrise.ch -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
David and all, The purpose of the transcription is only to ilustrate my vision of the music or rather its possibilities of interpretation. It is useful to have these pieces in standard notation if you are planning to talk about its voice leading and its durations. I'm not planning at the moment to publish a transcription of this book for guitarists or keyboard players (Kenneth Gilbert has already done it). All the best. 2010/1/6 David van Ooijen <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> Personal preference only: I like to read my lute music from treble/bass clef, with only space for one ledger line (for middle c) in the middle. If the upper part is rather lowish, though, I prefer the top staff to be in tenor cleff, but with more space in between the staves, so there will not be so much staff-crossing. Bit of a bother to get used to, but actually alto cleff in single staff is very good for much lute music without too many basses. But I assume the transciptions are not to be played by lutenists, who will turn to the tablature anyway, but for the readers to read. Then double staff (treble and bass clefs) is the most obvious choice. It'll give you more chance to make voice leading clear and add whatever 'footntes' within the music. Single staff can be so crowded. David On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV <[2]brai...@osu.edu> wrote: > However, the first edition of Sor's Op.7 looks decidedly weird to me, > occasionally for the exact reasons Chris described. Also, Sor's "treble" > staff shifts around between true treble and C clefs. The latter places > middle C where b is ordinarily notated for guitar on a single suboctave > treble clef...a half-step shift from guitar convention; talk about a > difficult mental transposition! Op.7 material on the truly treble staff > clumps to the bottom of its range and is often on ledger lines below. Etc. > Rather than the treble-clef/oddly-positioned-C-clef along with bass-clef > two-staff system, it might have been better to run with coupling the > customary suboctave treble to bass staff throughout. I would never endeavor > to read from that edition. > > For anybody who has read guitar music before, it certainly is easier to read > Sor's Op.7 from the second edition (where Sor recanted and returned to more > common guitar notation). Perhaps this is because of habit alone, but a > suboctave treble clef just seems best suited to guitar's melody range. > > Best, > Eugene > > >> -Original Message- >> From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On >> Behalf Of Peter Martin >> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:38 PM >> To: Lute list >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transcription >> >>Giuliani, maybe, but not Sor. He published his Fantaisie opus 7 on >>two staves, with an Avertissement at the beginning to explain why this >>was so much better than using a single treble-clef stave. >> >>Although he abandoned the attempt for his other 62 opuses (opera?), I >>think he was absolutely right. The music is much clearer like this. >> >>P >>2010/1/6 <[1][5]chriswi...@yahoo.com> >> >> Ron, >> >>--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ron Andrico <[2][6]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>The conventional two-stave keyboard >>> transcription is probably the most >>>useful and appropriate format for >>> academic purposes. >> >> Sorry, but I disagree. Transcribing Kapsperger's music on two >> staves makes as much sense as putting pieces by Giuliani, Tarrega or >> Villa-Lobos onto two staves. As you point out, though, this >> incredibly wasteful use of paper is still the standard in academic >> circles. >> >>-- >> >> References >> >>1. mailto:[7]chriswi...@yahoo.com >>2. mailto:[8]praelu...@hotmail.com >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > -- *** David van Ooijen [10]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [11]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 6. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com 7. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 8. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 11. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
I vote for two staves. It is more accurate and scholarly, IMHO. Economical? What, are you worrying about inconveniencing a few electrons? Or is it the paper? How many copies do you plan to print? My YEN2 On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:46 PM, Bruno Correia wrote: Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they don't have the deep basses (10 course). Appreciate any comments. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [2]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
[LUTE] Re: Looking for ...
These Scots pieces can be a lot of fun to "flesh out", you can hear 4 of them played as a medley for lute and renaissance guitar at http://www.pantagruel.de/listen.html It is the last Mp3 on the page entitled "I met her in the medowe". All the best Mark -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Eugene C. Braig IV Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Januar 2010 00:56 An: 'Valéry Sauvage'; 'Stephen Fryer' Cc: 'Lute Net' Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... I'm pretty certain the Mel Bay publication is an effort to capture what Ronn actual performed on the Dorian disc, "divisions", ornamented repeats, and all. Since the source is dominated by simple melody statements, it really needs a little "fleshing" to make interesting performance material. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Valéry Sauvage > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 4:54 AM > To: 'Stephen Fryer'; 'Eugene C. Braig IV' > Cc: 'Lute Net' > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > > Here is a link to a pdf of the Straloch (a copy was given to me by a > lutenist in 1985... so as it is not published, enjoy !) > http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj > About differences of the piece we were talking about, look for "A daunce" > page 16, other version of the same tune. > Valéry > > -Message d'origine- > De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la > part > de Stephen Fryer > Envoyé : mardi 5 janvier 2010 01:27 > À : Eugene C. Braig IV > Cc : 'Lute Net' > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > > > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > > I'm not certain, but I believe it is contained in this publication: > > http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute > > > > I can check my own copy when home. > > Thanks Eugene. Last time I'd looked (a couple of years ago after taking > Ronn's class on Scottish Lute) it was out of print and I couldn't find a > copy. I looks like it is available again so I'll get a copy (I already > have volume 2). Not only that but you can preview it at Amazon.com. > > Interestingly there seem to be some differences (besides Ronn's > variations) between this publication and what Valérie sent. > > Stephen Fryer > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: Looking for ...
I'm pretty certain the Mel Bay publication is an effort to capture what Ronn actual performed on the Dorian disc, "divisions", ornamented repeats, and all. Since the source is dominated by simple melody statements, it really needs a little "fleshing" to make interesting performance material. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Valéry Sauvage > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 4:54 AM > To: 'Stephen Fryer'; 'Eugene C. Braig IV' > Cc: 'Lute Net' > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > > Here is a link to a pdf of the Straloch (a copy was given to me by a > lutenist in 1985... so as it is not published, enjoy !) > http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj > About differences of the piece we were talking about, look for "A daunce" > page 16, other version of the same tune. > Valéry > > -Message d'origine- > De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la > part > de Stephen Fryer > Envoyé : mardi 5 janvier 2010 01:27 > À : Eugene C. Braig IV > Cc : 'Lute Net' > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > > > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > > I'm not certain, but I believe it is contained in this publication: > > http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute > > > > I can check my own copy when home. > > Thanks Eugene. Last time I'd looked (a couple of years ago after taking > Ronn's class on Scottish Lute) it was out of print and I couldn't find a > copy. I looks like it is available again so I'll get a copy (I already > have volume 2). Not only that but you can preview it at Amazon.com. > > Interestingly there seem to be some differences (besides Ronn's > variations) between this publication and what Valérie sent. > > Stephen Fryer > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Nanki library on-line
Dear David, Many thanks indeed for this. I notice Robert Tailour's _Sacred hymns_ are included: http://nanki-ml.dmc.keio.ac.jp/N-01_28_R084/content/0002_large.html As far as I know, there is no facsimile available in print. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 05 January 2010 11:09 To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Nanki library on-line Surfacing on this list once in a while: questions about the Nanki Music Library in Japan. Now they have put some of their books on line: http://note.dmc.keio.ac.jp/music-library/nanki/ I don't see the mss available yet, but 500 printed works should keep us happy for a while. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Little Lines
Many thanks to all who replied to my query about little lines. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Stewart McCoy Sent: 29 December 2009 20:04 To: Lute Net Subject: [LUTE] Little Lines Dear All, A friend of mine has asked me this question: When a seventeenth-century copyist abbreviated a word and indicated it by writing a line over the last letter, rather than a dot after it (e.g. Preludiu for Preludium), is there a proper term to refer to that line? I don't now the answer. Can anyone help? Stewart McCoy. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Personal preference only: I like to read my lute music from treble/bass clef, with only space for one ledger line (for middle c) in the middle. If the upper part is rather lowish, though, I prefer the top staff to be in tenor cleff, but with more space in between the staves, so there will not be so much staff-crossing. Bit of a bother to get used to, but actually alto cleff in single staff is very good for much lute music without too many basses. But I assume the transciptions are not to be played by lutenists, who will turn to the tablature anyway, but for the readers to read. Then double staff (treble and bass clefs) is the most obvious choice. It'll give you more chance to make voice leading clear and add whatever 'footntes' within the music. Single staff can be so crowded. David On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > However, the first edition of Sor's Op.7 looks decidedly weird to me, > occasionally for the exact reasons Chris described. Also, Sor's "treble" > staff shifts around between true treble and C clefs. The latter places > middle C where b is ordinarily notated for guitar on a single suboctave > treble clef...a half-step shift from guitar convention; talk about a > difficult mental transposition! Op.7 material on the truly treble staff > clumps to the bottom of its range and is often on ledger lines below. Etc. > Rather than the treble-clef/oddly-positioned-C-clef along with bass-clef > two-staff system, it might have been better to run with coupling the > customary suboctave treble to bass staff throughout. I would never endeavor > to read from that edition. > > For anybody who has read guitar music before, it certainly is easier to read > Sor's Op.7 from the second edition (where Sor recanted and returned to more > common guitar notation). Perhaps this is because of habit alone, but a > suboctave treble clef just seems best suited to guitar's melody range. > > Best, > Eugene > > >> -Original Message- >> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On >> Behalf Of Peter Martin >> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:38 PM >> To: Lute list >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transcription >> >> Giuliani, maybe, but not Sor. He published his Fantaisie opus 7 on >> two staves, with an Avertissement at the beginning to explain why this >> was so much better than using a single treble-clef stave. >> >> Although he abandoned the attempt for his other 62 opuses (opera?), I >> think he was absolutely right. The music is much clearer like this. >> >> P >> 2010/1/6 <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> >> >> Ron, >> >> --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ron Andrico <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > The conventional two-stave keyboard >> > transcription is probably the most >> > useful and appropriate format for >> > academic purposes. >> >> Sorry, but I disagree. Transcribing Kapsperger's music on two >> staves makes as much sense as putting pieces by Giuliani, Tarrega or >> Villa-Lobos onto two staves. As you point out, though, this >> incredibly wasteful use of paper is still the standard in academic >> circles. >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com >> 2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl ***
[LUTE] Re: URGENT : FERMETURE DE SOFRACOB
???!!! David |-( 2010/1/6 Bruno Fournier : > Hello to all, bonjour A tous, > > A > > SOFRACOB is closing its operations at the end of February.A This is a > great loss to theA early music world. > > A > > SOFRACOB ferme ses portes dA(c)finitivement A la fin fA(c)vrier.A > Ceci est une grande perte pour le monde de la musique ancienne. > > A > > Bruno Cognyl-Fournier > > Montreal, QuA(c)bec > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: <[1]sofra...@aol.com> > Date: 2010/1/6 > Subject: URGENT : FERMETURE DE SOFRACOB > To: [2]br...@estavel.org > Cher Client, > Depuis la maladie des vaches folles (ESB) nous avons fait le maximum > pour maintenir notre activitA(c), mais malheureusement, malgrA(c) tous > nos efforts, nous avons le regret de vous informer que la SOFRACOB > arrA-atera dA(c)finitivement ses activitA(c)s fin fA(c)vrier 2010. > Nous vous recommandons de faire un petit stock avant la fermeture, mais > il faudrait que nous recevions votre commande au plus tard fin JANVIER. > Nous avons toujours fait le maximum pour vous donner satisfaction et > nous sommes dA(c)solA(c)s d'A-atre obligA(c)s d'arrA-ater notre > collaboration. > Dans l'attente de vos A(c)ventuelles commandes avant fin janvier 2010, > soyez certain que nous sommes dA(c)solA(c)s de cette situation. > Avec nos meilleurs sentiments. > Cordialement. > Ph. LENOBLE et VIRGINIE > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:sofra...@aol.com > 2. mailto:br...@estavel.org > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl ***
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
However, the first edition of Sor's Op.7 looks decidedly weird to me, occasionally for the exact reasons Chris described. Also, Sor's "treble" staff shifts around between true treble and C clefs. The latter places middle C where b is ordinarily notated for guitar on a single suboctave treble clef...a half-step shift from guitar convention; talk about a difficult mental transposition! Op.7 material on the truly treble staff clumps to the bottom of its range and is often on ledger lines below. Etc. Rather than the treble-clef/oddly-positioned-C-clef along with bass-clef two-staff system, it might have been better to run with coupling the customary suboctave treble to bass staff throughout. I would never endeavor to read from that edition. For anybody who has read guitar music before, it certainly is easier to read Sor's Op.7 from the second edition (where Sor recanted and returned to more common guitar notation). Perhaps this is because of habit alone, but a suboctave treble clef just seems best suited to guitar's melody range. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Peter Martin > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:38 PM > To: Lute list > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transcription > >Giuliani, maybe, but not Sor. He published his Fantaisie opus 7 on >two staves, with an Avertissement at the beginning to explain why this >was so much better than using a single treble-clef stave. > >Although he abandoned the attempt for his other 62 opuses (opera?), I >think he was absolutely right. The music is much clearer like this. > >P >2010/1/6 <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> > > Ron, > >--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ron Andrico <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>The conventional two-stave keyboard >> transcription is probably the most >>useful and appropriate format for >> academic purposes. > > Sorry, but I disagree. Transcribing Kapsperger's music on two > staves makes as much sense as putting pieces by Giuliani, Tarrega or > Villa-Lobos onto two staves. As you point out, though, this > incredibly wasteful use of paper is still the standard in academic > circles. > >-- > > References > >1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com >2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Giuliani, maybe, but not Sor. He published his Fantaisie opus 7 on two staves, with an Avertissement at the beginning to explain why this was so much better than using a single treble-clef stave. Although he abandoned the attempt for his other 62 opuses (opera?), I think he was absolutely right. The music is much clearer like this. P 2010/1/6 <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> Ron, --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ron Andrico <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote: >The conventional two-stave keyboard > transcription is probably the most >useful and appropriate format for > academic purposes. Sorry, but I disagree. Transcribing Kapsperger's music on two staves makes as much sense as putting pieces by Giuliani, Tarrega or Villa-Lobos onto two staves. As you point out, though, this incredibly wasteful use of paper is still the standard in academic circles. -- References 1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Ron, --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ron Andrico wrote: > The conventional two-stave keyboard > transcription is probably the most > useful and appropriate format for > academic purposes. Sorry, but I disagree. Transcribing Kapsperger's music on two staves makes as much sense as putting pieces by Giuliani, Tarrega or Villa-Lobos onto two staves. As you point out, though, this incredibly wasteful use of paper is still the standard in academic circles. Bruno, if you're in a situation where there's pressure to be taken seriously, you may have no choice but to use this format. Especially with Kapsperger's idiom, though, you'll end up with lots of passages with many blank measures in the "left" or "right" hands, weirdly-spaced (and placed) chords, inconsistent voices and voice leading, etc. Its not going to impress: to a keyboard player, this just looks like poor music. This wouldn't happen with a more natural single staff transcription. Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Kapsberger's first book for lute rerquires a 11 course instrument (p. 28-29). I'm just working on Kapsberger's instruments he used - a tricky question! Am 06.01.2010 um 18:09 schrieb Bruno Correia: > Hi Ron, > > 2010/1/6 Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com> > > Bruno: > The conventional two-stave keyboard transcription is probably the most > useful and appropriate format for academic purposes. > > > So I think. > > If you want the transcription to be user-friendly, you might follow Tim > Crawford's lead and limit the space between staves. > > > Interesting. Gilbert does it similarly. > > I would take care if you are using an automatic function that > transcribes from tablature to keyboard notation. You will likely spend > as much time correcting problems as you would transcribing from > scratch. Frequent problems include mis-named notes (e.g., g-flat when > you want f-sharp) and ridiculous problems in representations of voice > leading, which is a very important point. You can choose whatever > pitch standard you like. > > > I've noticed that there will be some corrections in the standard > notation to mach precisely the original. Nevertheless, I'll have to add > my own thoughts on it instead of just transcribing it plain as Gilbert > does. > > Regards. > > > Best wishes, > Ron Andrico > [2]www.mignarda.com >> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:46:59 -0200 >> To: [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> From: [4]bruno.l...@gmail.com >> Subject: [LUTE] Transcription >> >> Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: >> >> >> >> At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my > Doc. >> dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django > tab >> writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: > should >> the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and >> bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... >> >> >> >> I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the >> access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all > they >> don't have the deep basses (10 course). >> >> >> >> Appreciate any comments. >> >> -- >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > __ > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. [6]Sign up now. > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com > 2. http://www.mignarda.com/ > 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 6. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ > Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken +41 (0)62 771 47 07 lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
>Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: > > > >At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. >dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab >writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should >the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and >bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... Ask yourself, why are you publishing a transcription at all? this is your 'first' book, it should have publication goals that guide the selection and editing of its content. The answer to that should dictate the format needed. A publisher will have some particular market in mind as he poses himself that question. You have your advisor and the committee to consider as well as a theoretical audience. A performing edition for guitarists should be in guitar staff notation or tablature for an instrument in e. A scholarly edition with emendations should be in whatever is used today for replica instruments, probably tablature; but maybe guitar staff (not transcribed for an e instrument), whatever would be welcomed by a modern player. if your audience is presumed to be academics, then you need to consider that keyboard proficiency is required at most music schools, so keyboard-proficient readers are in the majority; but the special nature of this music also needs consideration, it was originally published in tablature, for players of a particular instrument. If the music you are publishing is parts from larger context, then that context may enter the picture, you would then need orchestral score. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Hi Ron, 2010/1/6 Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com> Bruno: The conventional two-stave keyboard transcription is probably the most useful and appropriate format for academic purposes. So I think. If you want the transcription to be user-friendly, you might follow Tim Crawford's lead and limit the space between staves. Interesting. Gilbert does it similarly. I would take care if you are using an automatic function that transcribes from tablature to keyboard notation. You will likely spend as much time correcting problems as you would transcribing from scratch. Frequent problems include mis-named notes (e.g., g-flat when you want f-sharp) and ridiculous problems in representations of voice leading, which is a very important point. You can choose whatever pitch standard you like. I've noticed that there will be some corrections in the standard notation to mach precisely the original. Nevertheless, I'll have to add my own thoughts on it instead of just transcribing it plain as Gilbert does. Regards. Best wishes, Ron Andrico [2]www.mignarda.com > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:46:59 -0200 > To: [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: [4]bruno.l...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Transcription > > Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: > > > > At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. > dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab > writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should > the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and > bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... > > > > I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the > access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they > don't have the deep basses (10 course). > > > > Appreciate any comments. > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. [6]Sign up now. -- References 1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com 2. http://www.mignarda.com/ 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Peter, That's exactly the conclusion I arrived. Treble and bass clefs seems to be a general agreement. Best. 2010/1/6 Peter Martin <[1]peter.l...@gmail.com> Guitarists can read tablature, so it doesn't seem worth making a transcription into staff notation for them. For anyone else, I would favour treble and bass clefs, which permits a much clearer texture than a single staff does. -- References 1. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Seems a legitimate point. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of Peter Martin > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 11:50 AM > To: Lute list > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transcription > >Guitarists can read tablature, so it doesn't seem worth making a >transcription into staff notation for them. For anyone else, I would >favour treble and bass clefs, which permits a much clearer texture than >a single staff does. > >P >2010/1/6 Eugene C. Braig IV <[1]brai...@osu.edu> > > ..And frankly, I think a direct transcription of the tablature > without > taking the time to make guitar arrangements would still be of great > use to > any thinking guitarist who would care to work from a source closer > to the > original. > Since tablature relates only to relative pitches, setting the first > course > at e' wouldn't even require transposition. ...Or setting it at g' > in the > main body of your document and including an appendix in e' wouldn't > require > much additional effort (certainly not as much as fully fingered > transcriptions/arrangements for 6-string guitar), and I would think > would > still likely be frequently used/cited by guitarists. > Eugene > >-- > > References > >1. mailto:brai...@osu.edu > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Guitarists can read tablature, so it doesn't seem worth making a transcription into staff notation for them. For anyone else, I would favour treble and bass clefs, which permits a much clearer texture than a single staff does. P 2010/1/6 Eugene C. Braig IV <[1]brai...@osu.edu> ..And frankly, I think a direct transcription of the tablature without taking the time to make guitar arrangements would still be of great use to any thinking guitarist who would care to work from a source closer to the original. Since tablature relates only to relative pitches, setting the first course at e' wouldn't even require transposition. ...Or setting it at g' in the main body of your document and including an appendix in e' wouldn't require much additional effort (certainly not as much as fully fingered transcriptions/arrangements for 6-string guitar), and I would think would still likely be frequently used/cited by guitarists. Eugene -- References 1. mailto:brai...@osu.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Bruno: The conventional two-stave keyboard transcription is probably the most useful and appropriate format for academic purposes. If you want the transcription to be user-friendly, you might follow Tim Crawford's lead and limit the space between staves. I would take care if you are using an automatic function that transcribes from tablature to keyboard notation. You will likely spend as much time correcting problems as you would transcribing from scratch. Frequent problems include mis-named notes (e.g., g-flat when you want f-sharp) and ridiculous problems in representations of voice leading, which is a very important point. You can choose whatever pitch standard you like. Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:46:59 -0200 > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: bruno.l...@gmail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Transcription > > Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: > > > > At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. > dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab > writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should > the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and > bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... > > > > I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the > access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they > don't have the deep basses (10 course). > > > > Appreciate any comments. > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. [1]Sign up now. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/
[LUTE] Re: Looking for ...
Hi Mathias, Thank you for clarifying the tunings of the Wemyss MS. Again I had not seen the manuscript, so did not know if it required the transitional tunings. As to the Balcarres MS, I was aware that there were additional tunings however the majority of the MS can be played with the "Flat Tuning" as described. I would hypothesize that the error stems from Mr. Chadwick's unfamiliarity with transitional lute tunings. To restate, I believe he was trying to relate the tab to the most common tuning for Gaelic harp and somehow managed to lose his way. Steve -- From: ""Mathias Rösel"" Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:08 AM To: "Steven Amazeen" Cc: Subject: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... Steve, yes, it's true, his 6th course is A, and the standard renaissance tuning in A is, 1st to 6th courses, a' e' b g d A. As I said, this is standard renaissance tuning in A, not Flat Tuning. That's what confused me, I think. Wemyss is _not_ renaissance. Wemyss makes use of three different tunings which slightly differ from each other. First, there's the Flat Tuning (f' d' bb g d A). The second tuning is called Flat Save The 3rd Sharp (f' d' b g d A), the third is what Chadwick correctly shows, the Sharp Tuning (f#' d' b g d A). Straloch requires renissance tuning, Wemyss requires transitional baroque tunings. And for the record, what's called Flat Tuning in Balcarres (for the lion's share of pieces in it) actually is standard D minor tuning. There are seven pieces in Balcarres, though, that require sharp tuning, and 2 that require harp tuning (g' d' b g d A). Mathias "Steven Amazeen" schrieb: Hi Mathias, I believe that the descriptions of the tunings are for A lute rather than the typical G. Apparently the reason for this is that it puts the music in a very good tuning for the harp. There is a doubled note used in gaelic harp tuning referred to as the "NeCawlee" in the tuning chart. Naturally this wouldn't apply to the lute, however it can make a difference to the execution of the music on the harp. Interestingly there is no reference to the 8th course although it is clearly used in the Straloch MS. "Cronan" refers to the lowest note of the scale on many harps (a nominal G or Gamma UT). According to Mr. Chadwick strings lower in pitch than cronan were variably tuned. The Straloch MS appears to be in renaissance tuning, and I have not seen the Wemyss MS so I am unsure why Mr. Chadwick refers to this tuning as the "Flat Tuning". Overall the effort seems to be to relate the tablature to the most common tuning of the Gaelic harp. Steve (who plays much more harp than lute these days) -- From: ""Mathias Roesel"" <[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:44 AM To: <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > I was a bit puzzled, though, by what he describes as tuning required in > Straloch: [3]http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/lute.htm Straloch is > renaissance tuning, no? > > Mathias > > "wolfgang wiehe" <[4]wie-w...@gmx.de> schrieb: >> Thanks Val for sharing the "facsimile". I found this: >> [5]http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/straloch.htm >> greetings >> wolfgang >> Original-Nachricht >> > Datum: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:54:03 +0100 >> > Von: "Valery Sauvage" <[6]sauvag...@orange.fr> >> > An: "\'Stephen Fryer\'" <[7]sjfr...@telus.net>, "\'Eugene C. Braig IV\'" >> > <[8]brai...@osu.edu> >> > CC: "\'Lute Net\'" <[9]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... >> >> > Here is a link to a pdf of the Straloch (a copy was given to me by a >> > lutenist in 1985... so as it is not published, enjoy !) >> > [10]http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj >> > About differences of the piece we were talking about, look for "A >> > daunce" >> > page 16, other version of the same tune. >> > Valery >> > >> > -Message d'origine- >> > De : [11]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la >> > part >> > de Stephen Fryer >> > Envoye : mardi 5 janvier 2010 01:27 >> > A : Eugene C. Braig IV >> > Cc : 'Lute Net' >> > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... >> > >> > >> > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >> > > I'm not certain, but I believe it is contained in this publication: >> > > [12]http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute >> > > >> > > I can check my own copy when home. >> > >> > Thanks Eugene. Last time I'd looked (a couple of years ago after >> > taking >> > Ronn's class on Scottish Lute) it was out of print and I couldn't find >> > a >> > copy. I looks like it is available again so I'll get a copy (I already >> > have v
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
..And frankly, I think a direct transcription of the tablature without taking the time to make guitar arrangements would still be of great use to any thinking guitarist who would care to work from a source closer to the original. Since tablature relates only to relative pitches, setting the first course at e' wouldn't even require transposition. ...Or setting it at g' in the main body of your document and including an appendix in e' wouldn't require much additional effort (certainly not as much as fully fingered transcriptions/arrangements for 6-string guitar), and I would think would still likely be frequently used/cited by guitarists. Eugene > -Original Message- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > Behalf Of chriswi...@yahoo.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:19 AM > To: List LUTELIST; Bruno Correia > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transcription > > Bruno, > >Oops, sorry! I obviously mis-read your message and thought you meant > the first theorbo book (this book uses 11 courses, anyway!). You clearly > said lute book. The two staves for lute music always seems a bit > superfluous for me. (Why do they do this? Is every single musicologist a > wannabe pianist? Even if they are, would they really have trouble reading > from a single staff?) One staff in octave transposing treble clef works > is sufficient, especially for the texture of music like HK's. > >With a few exceptions, Kapsperger's lute music actually works very well > on guitar. The extra basses can usually be bumped up an octave without > detriment. If I was doing this, I might add a guitar transcription as an > appendix. But I probably wouldn't want to go to the trouble. (I think > there may be a couple of guitar transcriptions of the book already on the > market.) > > Chris > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bruno Correia wrote: > > > From: Bruno Correia > > Subject: [LUTE] Transcription > > To: "List LUTELIST" > > Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 9:46 AM > > Could anybody give > > his/her opinion about this issue: > > > > > > > > At the moment I am analysing the > > Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. > > dissertation. All the musical examples > > will be written with Django tab > > writer adding (automatically) its > > transcription. My question is: should > > the transcription be written on a single > > or double staff (treble and > > bass clefs)? I think that a single staff > > is more economical... > > > > > > > > I thought for a moment to transcribe it > > in (e) in order to easy the > > access to guitarists, but perhaps its > > just a fool idea. After all they > > don't have the deep basses (10 course). > > > > > > > > Appreciate any comments. > > > > -- > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: URGENT : FERMETURE DE SOFRACOB
Hello to all, bonjour A tous, A SOFRACOB is closing its operations at the end of February.A This is a great loss to theA early music world. A SOFRACOB ferme ses portes dA(c)finitivement A la fin fA(c)vrier.A Ceci est une grande perte pour le monde de la musique ancienne. A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Montreal, QuA(c)bec -- Forwarded message -- From: <[1]sofra...@aol.com> Date: 2010/1/6 Subject: URGENT : FERMETURE DE SOFRACOB To: [2]br...@estavel.org Cher Client, Depuis la maladie des vaches folles (ESB) nous avons fait le maximum pour maintenir notre activitA(c), mais malheureusement, malgrA(c) tous nos efforts, nous avons le regret de vous informer que la SOFRACOB arrA-atera dA(c)finitivement ses activitA(c)s fin fA(c)vrier 2010. Nous vous recommandons de faire un petit stock avant la fermeture, mais il faudrait que nous recevions votre commande au plus tard fin JANVIER. Nous avons toujours fait le maximum pour vous donner satisfaction et nous sommes dA(c)solA(c)s d'A-atre obligA(c)s d'arrA-ater notre collaboration. Dans l'attente de vos A(c)ventuelles commandes avant fin janvier 2010, soyez certain que nous sommes dA(c)solA(c)s de cette situation. Avec nos meilleurs sentiments. Cordialement. Ph. LENOBLE et VIRGINIE -- References 1. mailto:sofra...@aol.com 2. mailto:br...@estavel.org To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Dear Chris, I Appreciate your comments. Read below please. 2010/1/6 <[1]chriswi...@yahoo.com> Bruno, Oops, sorry! I obviously mis-read your message and thought you meant the first theorbo book (this book uses 11 courses, anyway!). You clearly said lute book. The two staves for lute music always seems a bit superfluous for me. (Why do they do this? Is every single musicologist a wannabe pianist? Even if they are, would they really have trouble reading from a single staff?) One staff in octave transposing treble clef works is sufficient, especially for the texture of music like HK's. Well, that's a valid argument no doubt but it seems that the double stave gives a more clear sight of the voice leading and it is easier to read (not only for keyboard players but for us as well). With a few exceptions, Kapsperger's lute music actually works very well on guitar. The extra basses can usually be bumped up an octave without detriment. If I was doing this, I might add a guitar transcription as an appendix. But I probably wouldn't want to go to the trouble. (I think there may be a couple of guitar transcriptions of the book already on the market.) Very true, maybe later a version for guitar may come. Thanks. Chris -- References 1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Thank you very much Edward. I'll be working very hard to complete it this year. You are right about the double staff. John Griffiths has just given the same advice. Best wishes. 2010/1/6 Edward Martin <[1...@gamutstrings.com> Hi, Bruno. Congratulations on your work. It seems to me it would be a wonderful dissertation. First of all, I would not do just a bass clef notation, as this is not for theorbo, but a 10 course lute. Secondly, I think in the world of academia, the double staff notation, i.e. keyboard notation, would be more universally understood by those reading your paper. I personally would avoid the single-line guitar notation in e, for the purposes for dissertation. Perhaps a later volume in e might be published for guitarists. ed At 08:46 AM 1/6/2010, Bruno Correia wrote: Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they don't have the deep basses (10 course). Appreciate any comments. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [3...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 [4]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name [5]http://www.myspace.com/edslute -- References 1. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com 4. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name 5. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Hi, Bruno. Congratulations on your work. It seems to me it would be a wonderful dissertation. First of all, I would not do just a bass clef notation, as this is not for theorbo, but a 10 course lute. Secondly, I think in the world of academia, the double staff notation, i.e. keyboard notation, would be more universally understood by those reading your paper. I personally would avoid the single-line guitar notation in e, for the purposes for dissertation. Perhaps a later volume in e might be published for guitarists. ed At 08:46 AM 1/6/2010, Bruno Correia wrote: >Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: > > > >At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. >dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab >writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should >the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and >bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... > > > >I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the >access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they >don't have the deep basses (10 course). > > > >Appreciate any comments. > >-- > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Well, I thought about it. BTW most transcriptions are in double staff.. Thanks for the suggestion. 2010/1/6 Christopher Stetson <[1]cstet...@smith.edu> Hi, Bruno, I've coincidentally been reacquainting myself with "IHK" recently and I'd personally go for double staff transcription, mainly since I assume most music profs, having at least some piano, are more comfortable with it. I agree that transcription of Kapsperger for guitar would be tricky since the low basses are pretty integral. However, there are a lot of Weiss transcriptions that guitarists seem perfectly happy with... Best, and good luck! Chris. -- References 1. mailto:cstet...@smith.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Bruno, Oops, sorry! I obviously mis-read your message and thought you meant the first theorbo book (this book uses 11 courses, anyway!). You clearly said lute book. The two staves for lute music always seems a bit superfluous for me. (Why do they do this? Is every single musicologist a wannabe pianist? Even if they are, would they really have trouble reading from a single staff?) One staff in octave transposing treble clef works is sufficient, especially for the texture of music like HK's. With a few exceptions, Kapsperger's lute music actually works very well on guitar. The extra basses can usually be bumped up an octave without detriment. If I was doing this, I might add a guitar transcription as an appendix. But I probably wouldn't want to go to the trouble. (I think there may be a couple of guitar transcriptions of the book already on the market.) Chris --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bruno Correia wrote: > From: Bruno Correia > Subject: [LUTE] Transcription > To: "List LUTELIST" > Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 9:46 AM > Could anybody give > his/her opinion about this issue: > > > > At the moment I am analysing the > Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. > dissertation. All the musical examples > will be written with Django tab > writer adding (automatically) its > transcription. My question is: should > the transcription be written on a single > or double staff (treble and > bass clefs)? I think that a single staff > is more economical... > > > > I thought for a moment to transcribe it > in (e) in order to easy the > access to guitarists, but perhaps its > just a fool idea. After all they > don't have the deep basses (10 course). > > > > Appreciate any comments. > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Hi, Bruno, I've coincidentally been reacquainting myself with "IHK" recently and I'd personally go for double staff transcription, mainly since I assume most music profs, having at least some piano, are more comfortable with it. I agree that transcription of Kapsperger for guitar would be tricky since the low basses are pretty integral. However, there are a lot of Weiss transcriptions that guitarists seem perfectly happy with... Best, and good luck! Chris. >>> Bruno Correia 1/6/2010 9:46 AM >>> Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they don't have the deep basses (10 course). Appreciate any comments. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
But it is 10-course lute music, not theorbo. JG On 06/01/2010, at 12:07, [1]chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: Bruno, My opinion regarding theorbo notation is for one staff in bass clef. With only ten frets on the neck, you'll never have to go higher then three lines for the rare passages that go up that high; with nothing below the tenth course in this particular book, you'll only have one ledger line under the staff. I would suggest that you account for the re-entrant tuning (especially unison notes and campanellas) in your staff notation by indicating the string with numbers in circles the way it is done in modern guitar notation. (This would be helpful for non-players in visualizing the complexity of some sections that seem at first to be quite simple.) I would definitely avoid arranging it for guitar, however - the music doesn't work at all that way. My two cents. Good luck! Chris --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bruno Correia <[2]bruno.l...@gmail.com> wrote: From: Bruno Correia <[3]bruno.l...@gmail.com> Subject: [LUTE] Transcription To: "List LUTELIST" <[4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 9:46 AM Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they don't have the deep basses (10 course). Appreciate any comments. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ John Griffiths FAHA Professor of Music General Editor LYREBIRD PRESS [7]www.lyrebirdpress.com Director EARLY MUSIC STUDIO [8]www.music.unimelb.edu.au/research/EMS/index.html School of Music The University of Melbourne 3010 Victoria Australia tel (61+3) 8344 8810 fax (61+3) 8344 5346 [9]jag...@unimelb.edu.au [10]www.vihuelagriffiths.com ___ This e-mail and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this e-mail is received in error please delete it and notify us by return e-mail. -- References 1. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com 3. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. http://www.lyrebirdpress.com/ 8. http://www.music.unimelb.edu.au/research/EMS/index.html 9. mailto:jag...@unimelb.edu.au 10. http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/
[LUTE] Re: Transcription
Bruno, My opinion regarding theorbo notation is for one staff in bass clef. With only ten frets on the neck, you'll never have to go higher then three lines for the rare passages that go up that high; with nothing below the tenth course in this particular book, you'll only have one ledger line under the staff. I would suggest that you account for the re-entrant tuning (especially unison notes and campanellas) in your staff notation by indicating the string with numbers in circles the way it is done in modern guitar notation. (This would be helpful for non-players in visualizing the complexity of some sections that seem at first to be quite simple.) I would definitely avoid arranging it for guitar, however - the music doesn't work at all that way. My two cents. Good luck! Chris --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bruno Correia wrote: > From: Bruno Correia > Subject: [LUTE] Transcription > To: "List LUTELIST" > Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 9:46 AM > Could anybody give > his/her opinion about this issue: > > > > At the moment I am analysing the > Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. > dissertation. All the musical examples > will be written with Django tab > writer adding (automatically) its > transcription. My question is: should > the transcription be written on a single > or double staff (treble and > bass clefs)? I think that a single staff > is more economical... > > > > I thought for a moment to transcribe it > in (e) in order to easy the > access to guitarists, but perhaps its > just a fool idea. After all they > don't have the deep basses (10 course). > > > > Appreciate any comments. > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Transcription
Could anybody give his/her opinion about this issue: At the moment I am analysing the Kapsperger 1611 lute book for my Doc. dissertation. All the musical examples will be written with Django tab writer adding (automatically) its transcription. My question is: should the transcription be written on a single or double staff (treble and bass clefs)? I think that a single staff is more economical... I thought for a moment to transcribe it in (e) in order to easy the access to guitarists, but perhaps its just a fool idea. After all they don't have the deep basses (10 course). Appreciate any comments. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Looking for ...
Steve, yes, it's true, his 6th course is A, and the standard renaissance tuning in A is, 1st to 6th courses, a' e' b g d A. As I said, this is standard renaissance tuning in A, not Flat Tuning. That's what confused me, I think. Wemyss is _not_ renaissance. Wemyss makes use of three different tunings which slightly differ from each other. First, there's the Flat Tuning (f' d' bb g d A). The second tuning is called Flat Save The 3rd Sharp (f' d' b g d A), the third is what Chadwick correctly shows, the Sharp Tuning (f#' d' b g d A). Straloch requires renissance tuning, Wemyss requires transitional baroque tunings. And for the record, what's called Flat Tuning in Balcarres (for the lion's share of pieces in it) actually is standard D minor tuning. There are seven pieces in Balcarres, though, that require sharp tuning, and 2 that require harp tuning (g' d' b g d A). Mathias "Steven Amazeen" schrieb: >Hi Mathias, >I believe that the descriptions of the tunings are for A lute rather >than >the typical G. Apparently the reason for this is that it puts the >music in >a very good tuning for the harp. There is a doubled note used in >gaelic >harp tuning referred to as the "NeCawlee" in the tuning chart. >Naturally >this wouldn't apply to the lute, however it can make a difference to >the >execution of the music on the harp. Interestingly there is no >reference to >the 8th course although it is clearly used in the Straloch MS. >"Cronan" >refers to the lowest note of the scale on many harps (a nominal G or >Gamma >UT). According to Mr. Chadwick strings lower in pitch than cronan were >variably tuned. >The Straloch MS appears to be in renaissance tuning, and I have not >seen the >Wemyss MS so I am unsure why Mr. Chadwick refers to this tuning as the >"Flat >Tuning". >Overall the effort seems to be to relate the tablature to the most >common >tuning of the Gaelic harp. >Steve >(who plays much more harp than lute these days) >-- >From: ""Mathias Roesel"" <[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> >Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:44 AM >To: <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... >> I was a bit puzzled, though, by what he describes as tuning required >in >> Straloch: [3]http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/lute.htm >Straloch is >> renaissance tuning, no? >> >> Mathias >> >> "wolfgang wiehe" <[4]wie-w...@gmx.de> schrieb: >>> Thanks Val for sharing the "facsimile". I found this: >>> [5]http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/straloch.htm >>> greetings >>> wolfgang >>> Original-Nachricht >>> > Datum: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:54:03 +0100 >>> > Von: "Valery Sauvage" <[6]sauvag...@orange.fr> >>> > An: "\'Stephen Fryer\'" <[7]sjfr...@telus.net>, "\'Eugene C. Braig >IV\'" >>> > <[8]brai...@osu.edu> >>> > CC: "\'Lute Net\'" <[9]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>> > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... >>> >>> > Here is a link to a pdf of the Straloch (a copy was given to me by >a >>> > lutenist in 1985... so as it is not published, enjoy !) >>> > [10]http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj >>> > About differences of the piece we were talking about, look for "A >>> > daunce" >>> > page 16, other version of the same tune. >>> > Valery >>> > >>> > -Message d'origine- >>> > De : [11]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la >>> > part >>> > de Stephen Fryer >>> > Envoye : mardi 5 janvier 2010 01:27 >>> > A : Eugene C. Braig IV >>> > Cc : 'Lute Net' >>> > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... >>> > >>> > >>> > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >>> > > I'm not certain, but I believe it is contained in this >publication: >>> > > [12]http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute >>> > > >>> > > I can check my own copy when home. >>> > >>> > Thanks Eugene. Last time I'd looked (a couple of years ago after >>> > taking >>> > Ronn's class on Scottish Lute) it was out of print and I couldn't >find >>> > a >>> > copy. I looks like it is available again so I'll get a copy (I >already >>> > have volume 2). Not only that but you can preview it at >Amazon.com. >>> > >>> > Interestingly there seem to be some differences (besides Ronn's >>> > variations) between this publication and what Valerie sent. >>> > >>> > Stephen Fryer >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >-- > > References > >1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de >2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >3. http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/lute.htm >4.
[LUTE] Re: Looking for ...
Hi Mathias, I believe that the descriptions of the tunings are for A lute rather than the typical G. Apparently the reason for this is that it puts the music in a very good tuning for the harp. There is a doubled note used in gaelic harp tuning referred to as the "NeCawlee" in the tuning chart. Naturally this wouldn't apply to the lute, however it can make a difference to the execution of the music on the harp. Interestingly there is no reference to the 8th course although it is clearly used in the Straloch MS. "Cronan" refers to the lowest note of the scale on many harps (a nominal G or Gamma UT). According to Mr. Chadwick strings lower in pitch than cronan were variably tuned. The Straloch MS appears to be in renaissance tuning, and I have not seen the Wemyss MS so I am unsure why Mr. Chadwick refers to this tuning as the "Flat Tuning". Overall the effort seems to be to relate the tablature to the most common tuning of the Gaelic harp. Steve (who plays much more harp than lute these days) -- From: ""Mathias Roesel"" <[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:44 AM To: <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > I was a bit puzzled, though, by what he describes as tuning required in > Straloch: [3]http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/lute.htm Straloch is > renaissance tuning, no? > > Mathias > > "wolfgang wiehe" <[4]wie-w...@gmx.de> schrieb: >> Thanks Val for sharing the "facsimile". I found this: >> [5]http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/straloch.htm >> greetings >> wolfgang >> Original-Nachricht >> > Datum: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:54:03 +0100 >> > Von: "Valery Sauvage" <[6]sauvag...@orange.fr> >> > An: "\'Stephen Fryer\'" <[7]sjfr...@telus.net>, "\'Eugene C. Braig IV\'" >> > <[8]brai...@osu.edu> >> > CC: "\'Lute Net\'" <[9]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... >> >> > Here is a link to a pdf of the Straloch (a copy was given to me by a >> > lutenist in 1985... so as it is not published, enjoy !) >> > [10]http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj >> > About differences of the piece we were talking about, look for "A >> > daunce" >> > page 16, other version of the same tune. >> > Valery >> > >> > -Message d'origine- >> > De : [11]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la >> > part >> > de Stephen Fryer >> > Envoye : mardi 5 janvier 2010 01:27 >> > A : Eugene C. Braig IV >> > Cc : 'Lute Net' >> > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... >> > >> > >> > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: >> > > I'm not certain, but I believe it is contained in this publication: >> > > [12]http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute >> > > >> > > I can check my own copy when home. >> > >> > Thanks Eugene. Last time I'd looked (a couple of years ago after >> > taking >> > Ronn's class on Scottish Lute) it was out of print and I couldn't find >> > a >> > copy. I looks like it is available again so I'll get a copy (I already >> > have volume 2). Not only that but you can preview it at Amazon.com. >> > >> > Interestingly there seem to be some differences (besides Ronn's >> > variations) between this publication and what Valerie sent. >> > >> > Stephen Fryer > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/lute.htm 4. mailto:wie-w...@gmx.de 5. http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/straloch.htm 6. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr 7. mailto:sjfr...@telus.net 8. mailto:brai...@osu.edu 9. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj 11. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Looking for ...
I was a bit puzzled, though, by what he describes as tuning required in Straloch: http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/lute.htm Straloch is renaissance tuning, no? Mathias "wolfgang wiehe" schrieb: > Thanks Val for sharing the "facsimile". I found this: > http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/straloch.htm > greetings > wolfgang > Original-Nachricht > > Datum: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:54:03 +0100 > > Von: "Valéry Sauvage" > > An: "\'Stephen Fryer\'" , "\'Eugene C. Braig IV\'" > > > > CC: "\'Lute Net\'" > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > > > Here is a link to a pdf of the Straloch (a copy was given to me by a > > lutenist in 1985... so as it is not published, enjoy !) > > http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj > > About differences of the piece we were talking about, look for "A daunce" > > page 16, other version of the same tune. > > Valéry > > > > -Message d'origine- > > De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la > > part > > de Stephen Fryer > > Envoyé : mardi 5 janvier 2010 01:27 > > À : Eugene C. Braig IV > > Cc : 'Lute Net' > > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > > > > > > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > > > I'm not certain, but I believe it is contained in this publication: > > > http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute > > > > > > I can check my own copy when home. > > > > Thanks Eugene. Last time I'd looked (a couple of years ago after taking > > Ronn's class on Scottish Lute) it was out of print and I couldn't find a > > copy. I looks like it is available again so I'll get a copy (I already > > have volume 2). Not only that but you can preview it at Amazon.com. > > > > Interestingly there seem to be some differences (besides Ronn's > > variations) between this publication and what Valérie sent. > > > > Stephen Fryer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Looking for ...
Thanks Val for sharing the "facsimile". I found this: http://www.earlygaelicharp.info/sources/straloch.htm greetings wolfgang Original-Nachricht > Datum: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:54:03 +0100 > Von: "Valéry Sauvage" > An: "\'Stephen Fryer\'" , "\'Eugene C. Braig IV\'" > > CC: "\'Lute Net\'" > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > Here is a link to a pdf of the Straloch (a copy was given to me by a > lutenist in 1985... so as it is not published, enjoy !) > http://www.mediafire.com/?mzjndtjq2yj > About differences of the piece we were talking about, look for "A daunce" > page 16, other version of the same tune. > Valéry > > -Message d'origine- > De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la > part > de Stephen Fryer > Envoyé : mardi 5 janvier 2010 01:27 > À : Eugene C. Braig IV > Cc : 'Lute Net' > Objet : [LUTE] Re: Looking for ... > > > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > > I'm not certain, but I believe it is contained in this publication: > > http://openlibrary.org/b/OL11085910M/Mel_Bay_Scottish_Lute > > > > I can check my own copy when home. > > Thanks Eugene. Last time I'd looked (a couple of years ago after taking > Ronn's class on Scottish Lute) it was out of print and I couldn't find a > copy. I looks like it is available again so I'll get a copy (I already > have volume 2). Not only that but you can preview it at Amazon.com. > > Interestingly there seem to be some differences (besides Ronn's > variations) between this publication and what Valérie sent. > > Stephen Fryer > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
