[LUTE] Re: String tension
On Mar 24, 2010, at 2:48 PM, David Tayler wrote: > I've yet to play in an orchestra where the violins used all gut > strings on all four strings, as was the practice of the time, but it > will happen, I think. This aroused my curiosity, so I posted a question to the early music list, and, as expected, got a response from Oliver Webber, which might be of interest: On Mar 25, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Oliver Webber wrote: > This is a subject close to my heart - in the UK and other parts of > Europe (Amsterdam, France) there are quite a few period instrument > ensembles which insist on proper historical stringing now. > For music pre-1660 or so, this unequivocally means all gut (and > nothing else!); between 1660 and about 1750, we know wound strings > existed, but their incorporation into general use seems to have been patchy > at best, and varied a lot from one country to another. Certainly some > musicians were still using all gut in the middle of the 18th century > (we know this from sales records). > Another issue is the tension profile of the strings - but I'd better > not get into that now. If you're curious, have a look at > www.themonteverdiviolins.org; the site is desperately in need of > updating (sorry!) but there's a link there to an article about strings > I wrote which might be of interest. > > Anyway - to answer the OP's question, I frequently play with ensembles > where the strings are nothing but gut: my own group, the Monteverdi > String Band, does so, as does (at least for earlier repertoire) the > Gabrieli Consort. It's now easier to get good quality thick gut > strings which make this viable, and the sound, especially in a large > ensemble, can be thrilling. > > For early 18th century repertoire, ensembles which use historical > stringing might use wound C's for cellos and violas, and wound Gs for > violins - if made to the right proportions (ie, plenty of gut and a > nice thin silver winding!). With the right tension profile this is > still quite a different sound from the "old-fashioned" (ie 70s and > 80s!) so-called baroque stringing - very light, with lots of thin > wound strings. The sound is much more weighty and substantial, and > articulation comes to the fore. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Some questions about J. G. Conradi
Dear Jorg, Your first question is as to whether or not the notes should be played "Germainic " or straightforward, or "French", using inegale. That is not an easy question, and I am not too certain as to the appropriate answer. Certainly, this is French like music in origin, but keep in mind that the date of publication, a rather late 1724 (as compared to the 17th century French publications and manuscripts) suggests to me that due to the time and style, it should me played more Weiss-like, more straightforward. Also, it was published in Frankfurt an der Oder, a distance from France. I studied all the Conradi book for years, and came to the conclusion that it plainly sounds better with lesser inegale, or inequality. That is my hunch, based on how I interpret this fabulous music. Inegality seems more appropriate when there is less of a melody, but Conradi uses long lines in a seemingly later style, so melodically to me I understand it as sounding its best played plainly. The second question is about those slur marks. There are 2 kinds in this book... one of them, a leagato bow as you say, looks like a smile. The other, appears to be an upside down or inverted smile, or as I call it, a frown. I agree in that the edition was very carefully made, and these markings are very deliberate. Also, I agree that one can not make the "frowns" sound legato. So, I take it to mean or imply a very fast appagiatura, or very fast pull-off. In other works, play the first note connecting the "frown", and on the 2nd note, repeat the first note with a very fast pull-off, or fast appagiatura. I do not have scholarly andwers, but it is what makes sence to me. I find this convincing. Lastly, thank you for your comments on my recording. ed At 07:07 AM 3/25/2010, Hilbert Jörg wrote: Dear collected wisdom, I have been studying the C-Major suite of Johann Gottfried Conradi for quite a time now, and I am aware of the fact, that he might be the editor and not the author. Some of the other pieces sound pretty much like Weiß, in my ears, but others do not. I also read the latest discussions in this mail-forum about this subject. My first question is this one: Playing the c-Major Allemande, Courante and the Menuet, I have very much the feeling, that they should be played more or less the french way to sound natural. On the other side the Prelude ant the Giuge are certainly italian IMHO. This is just an impression of an amateur player, of course, but amazingly I found some similar ideas on a most beautiful CD of Ed Martin. He plays Allemande and Courante equally in the first place, and inegal in the repetition. Is there any evidence, to do it this way or the other one? My other question concerns the slur-marks (what ever this is in English). There are the ordinary ones, such as commas and legato-bows, of course. But there is also another one a turned bow under some letters. In the beginning I thought, it was just another sign for linking two tones, but looking more carefully on it, I cant find a real systematic in it. Sometimes a slur is even not possible. This is surprising for me, because the edition seams to be very carefully made in any other matter of articulation. So what does it mean than? Can somebody help me with my questions? Thank you very much, Jörg -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Nicolas Vallet
Dear All, I was wondering if Nicolas Vallet's Secret de Muses (1615) is available online in facsimile. I am looking to do some research on his ornaments. Many thanks. Shaun Ng -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Some questions about J. G. Conradi
Dear collected wisdom, I have been studying the C-Major suite of Johann Gottfried Conradi for quite a time now, and I am aware of the fact, that he might be the editor and not the author. Some of the other pieces sound pretty much like Weiß, in my ears, but others do not. I also read the latest discussions in this mail-forum about this subject. My first question is this one: Playing the c-Major Allemande, Courante and the Menuet, I have very much the feeling, that they should be played more or less the french way to sound natural. On the other side the Prelude ant the Giuge are certainly italian IMHO. This is just an impression of an amateur player, of course, but amazingly I found some similar ideas on a most beautiful CD of Ed Martin. He plays Allemande and Courante equally in the first place, and inegal in the repetition. Is there any evidence, to do it this way or the other one? My other question concerns the slur-marks (what ever this is in English). There are the ordinary ones, such as commas and legato-bows, of course. But there is also another one a turned bow under some letters. In the beginning I thought, it was just another sign for linking two tones, but looking more carefully on it, I cant find a real systematic in it. Sometimes a slur is even not possible. This is surprising for me, because the edition seams to be very carefully made in any other matter of articulation. So what does it mean than? Can somebody help me with my questions? Thank you very much, Jörg -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: John Danyel
Thank you all, very much! I've got the solo lute music book, and I'll have a copy of the songs soon. Thanks!! best, a __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: John Danyel
Dear All, The original intention was to do the song book as Volume 2, in collaboration with David A. Hill. Since the facsimile is almost error free, we envisaged a modern edition with modern clefs and full commentary on the texts for the singer. This was in the days before we had typesetting software, and DAH spent many happy hours working out how he was going to create camera-ready copy by hand (he is an accomplished artist). In the meantime we both got busy, and the whole thing went onto the back burner. Now, the actual physical production of the book would be easier, but all the other work would still be as demanding. Then I wonder who would buy the book - anyone who has the ability to perform these difficult works would surely be able to read the facsimile. I don't know whether it is still available. The songs are worth the trouble. Danyel is very clever, a "composer's composer", so plenty of delights for the players and singer. Best wishes, Martin Stephan Olbertz wrote: The (English) lute society published volume one of his complete works, the solo works edited by Martin Shepherd, so maybe there is volume two in the pipeline. Regards, Stephan Am 24.03.2010, 20:51 Uhr, schrieb Ariel Abramovich : Dear friends, is there any available facsimilar edition of John Danyel lute songs? I'm willing to buy it, if so. Thanks in advance for any advice! Best, Ariel. __ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. -- References 1. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
