[BAROQUE-LUTE] Dubut and Jean Mercure
Does anyone have any biographical data on the 2 French baroque lute composers Bubut and Mercure? Please note that there were 2 Mersures - one was Mercure 'd Orleans, and the other Jean Mercure. I am interested in Jean. Anay and all submissions are well appreciated, especially if the information is in English! Thanks in advance, ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dubut and Jean Mercure
Didn't Bubut play with Yogi? Good typo, Ed! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 5 Dec 2011, at 19:35, Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com wrote: Does anyone have any biographical data on the 2 French baroque lute composers Bubut and Mercure? Please note that there were 2 Mersures - one was Mercure 'd Orleans, and the other Jean Mercure. I am interested in Jean. Anay and all submissions are well appreciated, especially if the information is in English! Thanks in advance, ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dubut and Jean Mercure
No, not Yogi! Sorry about the typo's, as I sometimes type in haist (or, is that haste?). ed At 01:38 PM 12/5/2011, Rob MacKillop wrote: Didn't Bubut play with Yogi? Good typo, Ed! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 5 Dec 2011, at 19:35, Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com wrote: Does anyone have any biographical data on the 2 French baroque lute composers Bubut and Mercure? Please note that there were 2 Mersures - one was Mercure 'd Orleans, and the other Jean Mercure. I am interested in Jean. Anay and all submissions are well appreciated, especially if the information is in English! Thanks in advance, ed Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dubut and Jean Mercure
On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:42 PM, William Samson wrote: There were at least two DuButs and possibly three. ..fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: RT on Dutch Radio!!!
For those who missed the show, the archived stream is available now - http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 SONOOR! RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 12:51 AM Subject: RT on Dutch Radio!!! Anywhere in FM аether in the Netherlands, and worlwide on the web (5PM in NYC, 11PM in Amsterdam, midnight in Kyiv)! http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 This is the second hourlong installment in the series of broadcasts featuring Roman Turovsky's lute compositions on Ukrainian themes. The broadcasts would also include Julian Kytasty's compositions for flute, and ensemble compositions written jointly by Roman Turovsky and Hans Kockelmans. SONOOR is the podcast link. This broadcast will be repeated on the 15th and the 25th of December, at 6PM in Amsterdam, noon in New York. Be there, or be square! Groetjes, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight
Dear David, To confirm what you say, Morley's oft-requested It was a lover and his lass is fearfully difficult for the lutenist to play at the printed pitch, but it works a treat transposed down a tone. It also helps singers who don't like singing top g, and my ears which don't like hearing top g. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 04 December 2011 19:09 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight On 4 December 2011 19:58, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: especially Airs to Cour but also English lute songs, and here down a tone is the most common, followed by up a tone. I've noticed some lute songs become easier down a tone. Particularly Morley songs. I always wondered about his songs - were they written a tone lower but publisehd a tone up? Funny, that. David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight
Dear Martyn, I don't really want to speculate why Morley's songs are in the keys they are. The aim of my message was simply to make people aware, if they were not already, that It was a lover and his lass is much easier to play and sing when transposed down a tone from the printed pitch. Best wishes, Stewart. -Original Message- From: Martyn Hodgson [mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 05 December 2011 10:45 To: Stewart McCoy Subject: Re: [LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight Dear Stewart, But isn't it interesting that, if Morley did write the original in staff notation and the piece was then intabulated, this particular key was choosen? Or is the suggestion that whoever did it didn't think it mattered whatever key they put it in because the lutenist would transpose (on sight.). Why would they do this if they expected to generate sales? - or are you also suggesting that any 'experienced' lutenist at the time could transpose intabulated lute songs on sight? rgds Martyn --- On Mon, 5/12/11, Stewart McCoy lu...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Stewart McCoy lu...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Transposing lute tablature on sight To: Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 5 December, 2011, 10:03 Dear David, To confirm what you say, Morley's oft-requested It was a lover and his lass is fearfully difficult for the lutenist to play at the printed pitch, but it works a treat transposed down a tone. It also helps singers who don't like singing top g, and my ears which don't like hearing top g. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David van Ooijen Sent: 04 December 2011 19:09 To: lute Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight On 4 December 2011 19:58, David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: especially Airs to Cour but also English lute songs, and here down a tone is the most common, followed by up a tone. I've noticed some lute songs become easier down a tone. Particularly Morley songs. I always wondered about his songs - were they written a tone lower but publisehd a tone up? Funny, that. David To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vidan...@sbcglobal.net 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: who is this guy?
Perhaps Mr. Tyson has no interest in building and selling lutes, but it would have been interesting to hear his lute played by a lutenist . As far as the Glute goes, does it sound significantly different from an 8 string guitar? On Dec 5, 2011, at 12:10 AM, Christopher Stetson wrote: Please, gentlemen, let me encourage you to be kind to what appears to be a sincere effort. Mr. Tyson could well become a fellow lutelist member. Best to all, Chris. On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 11:59 PM, Bruno Fournier [1]br...@estavel.org wrote: Sounds like all of us had it wrong all along.to think I've been playing for 35 years, seen the evolution of the lute since the 70 and have to witness this on youtubemakes Sting look like an allrightA lutenist after all! A Bruno On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Andrew White [1][2]andywh...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Is that how a lute sounds? I must be doing something wrong. -Original Message- From: [2][3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Fournier Sent: Monday, 5 December 2011 1:44 PM To: [4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] who is this guy? A A A anyone ever met this guy? A A A [1][5][6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug A A A A A -- A A A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A A A [2][6][7]www.estavel.org A A A -- References A 1. [7][8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug A 2. [8][9]http://www.estavel.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at [9][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A [10][11]www.estavel.org A -- References 1. mailto:[12]andywh...@optusnet.com.au 2. mailto:[13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:[14]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:[15]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. [16]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 6. [17]http://www.estavel.org/ 7. [18]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 8. [19]http://www.estavel.org/ 9. [20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. [21]http://www.estavel.org/ -- References 1. mailto:br...@estavel.org 2. mailto:andywh...@optusnet.com.au 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 7. http://www.estavel.org/ 8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 9. http://www.estavel.org/ 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. http://www.estavel.org/ 12. mailto:andywh...@optusnet.com.au 13. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 15. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 16. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 17. http://www.estavel.org/ 18. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 19. http://www.estavel.org/ 20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 21. http://www.estavel.org/
[LUTE] Re: who is this guy?
We have a comedian in Brazil, Juca Chaves, who plays a guitar/lute almost like that, and I have sold a set of strings to a follower of his who built a lute body with an eight-string guitar arm. They have fun making music where they play and tell stories and jokes. It all looks a lot like an entertainment from long gone past times. Em 05/12/2011, às 03:10, Christopher Stetson escreveu: Please, gentlemen, let me encourage you to be kind to what appears to be a sincere effort. Mr. Tyson could well become a fellow lutelist member. Best to all, Chris. On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 11:59 PM, Bruno Fournier [1]br...@estavel.org wrote: Sounds like all of us had it wrong all along.to think I've been playing for 35 years, seen the evolution of the lute since the 70 and have to witness this on youtubemakes Sting look like an allrightA lutenist after all! A Bruno On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Andrew White [1][2]andywh...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Is that how a lute sounds? I must be doing something wrong. -Original Message- From: [2][3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Fournier Sent: Monday, 5 December 2011 1:44 PM To: [4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] who is this guy? A A A anyone ever met this guy? A A A [1][5][6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug A A A A A -- A A A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A A A [2][6][7]www.estavel.org A A A -- References A 1. [7][8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug A 2. [8][9]http://www.estavel.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at [9][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A [10][11]www.estavel.org A -- References 1. mailto:[12]andywh...@optusnet.com.au 2. mailto:[13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:[14]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:[15]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. [16]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 6. [17]http://www.estavel.org/ 7. [18]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 8. [19]http://www.estavel.org/ 9. [20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. [21]http://www.estavel.org/ -- References 1. mailto:br...@estavel.org 2. mailto:andywh...@optusnet.com.au 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 7. http://www.estavel.org/ 8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 9. http://www.estavel.org/ 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. http://www.estavel.org/ 12. mailto:andywh...@optusnet.com.au 13. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 15. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 16. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 17. http://www.estavel.org/ 18. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qGxpT5rug 19. http://www.estavel.org/ 20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 21. http://www.estavel.org/ erne...@aquila.mus.br erne...@aquila.mus.br
[LUTE] Lute, Accordian Debussy
As unorthodox as it gets: moc Tě zdravím! Poslechni si ukázku našeho netradičního dua (loutna+akordeon): http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-doteky-strun-a-kouzla-mechu.aspx Přeji Ti hezký denJindřich Enjoy, RT ps and be sure to check out Jindrich's recording of 2 archlute songs by Janacek! Really beautiful. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: who is this guy?
-Message d'origine- As far as the Glute goes, does it sound significantly different from an 8 string guitar? Probably some kind of cheap liuto forte ? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute, Accordian Debussy
An unlikely combination of instruments and music, but pleasant sounding (though the recorded lute sound leaves something to be desired, I think). On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: As unorthodox as it gets: moc Tě zdravím! Poslechni si ukázku našeho netradičního dua (loutna+akordeon): http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-doteky-strun-a-kouzla-mechu.aspx Přeji Ti hezký denJindřich Enjoy, RT ps and be sure to check out Jindrich's recording of 2 archlute songs by Janacek! Really beautiful. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute, Accordian Debussy
Here's the Janacek link - http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-koncerty-moravska-lidova-poezie.aspx RT From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com An unlikely combination of instruments and music, but pleasant sounding (though the recorded lute sound leaves something to be desired, I think). On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: As unorthodox as it gets: moc Tě zdravím! Poslechni si ukázku našeho netradičního dua (loutna+akordeon): http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-doteky-strun-a-kouzla-mechu.aspx Přeji Ti hezký denJindřich Enjoy, RT ps and be sure to check out Jindrich's recording of 2 archlute songs by Janacek! Really beautiful. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute, Accordian Debussy
Lovely! On Dec 5, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: Here's the Janacek link - http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-koncerty-moravska-lidova-poezie.aspx RT From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com An unlikely combination of instruments and music, but pleasant sounding (though the recorded lute sound leaves something to be desired, I think). On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: As unorthodox as it gets: moc Tě zdravím! Poslechni si ukázku našeho netradičního dua (loutna+akordeon): http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-doteky-strun-a-kouzla-mechu.aspx Přeji Ti hezký denJindřich Enjoy, RT ps and be sure to check out Jindrich's recording of 2 archlute songs by Janacek! Really beautiful. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute, Accordian Debussy
Wow, I like it! But I'm still a little in shock. I have sent it on to my accordion-playing friends. (Perhaps a new, unexpected opportunity for gigs!) -- R On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:27 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: Here's the Janacek link - http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-koncerty-moravska-lidova-poezie.aspx RT From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com An unlikely combination of instruments and music, but pleasant sounding (though the recorded lute sound leaves something to be desired, I think). On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: As unorthodox as it gets: moc Tě zdravím! Poslechni si ukázku našeho netradičního dua (loutna+akordeon): http://www.loutna.cz/cz/sluzby-doteky-strun-a-kouzla-mechu.aspx Přeji Ti hezký denJindřich Enjoy, RT ps and be sure to check out Jindrich's recording of 2 archlute songs by Janacek! Really beautiful. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
Transposition at sight would have been possible for the best players, after all, some could hear a piece once and then write it down. The only question is how many could do it. Generally speaking, in the modern era, if your teachers insisted that you learn transposition, or if it was a requirement at the conservatory, then you have that skill, just like any other skill. Of course anyone who want to can learn it, like any other skill. If you watch Letterman, you can see Paul at the Keyboard make up an accompaniment in absolutely any key. The guest starts singing, impromptu, and Paul will play one and only one note (I assume he therefore does not have perfect pitch) he then instantly calculates the difference from the note the guest sang and the note he played, derives the key (it could be any key, no matter how horrendous) then adds a complete harmony. If the guest starts of in C Sharp major, well, Paul just plays along. Anyone with these kinds of skills could transpose anything. Another way to look at it is visualization. If you look at tab and see a keyboard score, transposition is straightforward. However, if you look at tab and see finger positions, you then need to add that intermediate step of seeing the notes. I personally feel that in order to play the tab you have to see the voice leading, but it is more important for some pieces than others. And it surely must have been the case back whenever that different people saw different things. An organist who played the lute would surely visualize all the parts; a singer who played the lute could presumably pick out a cue melody. And of course in Spain they sang from tab. Since organ tablature and german tab are so complicated, it seems likely that for some players visualizing the polyphony would have been pretty easy in comparison, or, if you grew up singing polyphony, it would also be second nature. What you see when you look at tab is a very interesting question. After looking at upside down tab for a while, your mind turns it around, just as our eye inverts images through its lens. When we see patterns that we have seen before, we relate them instantly to a set of interpretive memories. These pattern can be tab patterns, with no notes involved, or note patterns, or a combination. The mind is very flexible in what is sees. Even those who don't see any notes in the tab will instantly recognize a familiar ground bass or passemezzo either by eye or by ear. Similarly, those who transpose music use widely different and complex processes. You can play two chords, either in real sound or in your imagination, and transpose them by ear without even using a notational intermediary, and folk musicians do this all the time. You can use muscle memory to instantly transpose G to F because your fingers know that G down a tone feels a certain way, positionally. You can then transpose without tab or notes, just using kinesthetics. I often use instant letter to transpose on the baroque guitar but also on the lute and theorbo. Instant letter uses letter names as an intermediary instead of the full polyphonic web, and as such is easier for sight-reading. You look at the first chord of every bar, you give it a letter, then count up or down, and play the letter. So you see G, count down one to F, then play F. As the piece moves along, you zip along to the middle of the bar or to the next bar and repeat the process. The system is fast enough that you can make this calculation, with very little training or practice, fast enough to outline a basic harmony on all but the quickest tempi. Second time through you can fill in the voice leading, or make up your own. Another transnotation I use is to simply see the tab as a figured bass. When sight reading, I use the first note number system. Here, you don't like at the whole chord, you stop looking as soon as you see a note that changes the chord from 5/3 to 6/3, major or minor, or 4. Since most of the patterns will be along those lines, and since context will dictate which chord is likely to be used, you can also make this transnotation in real time. And if you play music from 1600-1630 this is a very useful skill. The Armada class of 1588 at at Oxford, including Dowland and Morley, would have had a high level of musical training including using the hexachord for basic transposition. Reading through Morley's theoretical work, it is astonishing how high the level of training was at Oxford. David v.O.--my guess, as a rule of thumb, pieces are easier to play down a tone BUT have better 3-4 part realization in the higher key; that is, the parts can usually be slightly extended without running into fingering dead dead ends. However, this isn't always true. Another possibility is that in a polyphonic
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dubut and Jean Mercure
What is that? Tell us more what you know of the Dubuts, Howard! Fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency, fanatical devotion to the Pope..., you wrote. Sounds really very interesting! References?? Their music is also interesting, and you really brought an extra kick to them! :-) Arto On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 13:48:16 -0800, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On Dec 5, 2011, at 1:42 PM, William Samson wrote: There were at least two DuButs and possibly three. ..fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dubut and Jean Mercure
For those who didn't get my highly erudite reference, try this: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/d58d400423/spanish-inquisition-by-monty-python-from-greatest-comedy-sketches On Dec 5, 2011, at 2:50 PM, wikla wrote: What is that? Tell us more what you know of the Dubuts, Howard! Fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency, fanatical devotion to the Pope..., you wrote. Sounds really very interesting! References?? Their music is also interesting, and you really brought an extra kick to them! :-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: who is this guy?
anyone ever met this guy? http://baychico.com/ . mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: RT on Dutch Radio!!!
For those who missed the show, the archived stream is available now - http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 SONOOR! RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 12:51 AM Subject: RT on Dutch Radio!!! Anywhere in FM аether in the Netherlands, and worlwide on the web (5PM in NYC, 11PM in Amsterdam, midnight in Kyiv)! http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 This is the second hourlong installment in the series of broadcasts featuring Roman Turovsky's lute compositions on Ukrainian themes. The broadcasts would also include Julian Kytasty's compositions for flute, and ensemble compositions written jointly by Roman Turovsky and Hans Kockelmans. SONOOR is the podcast link. This broadcast will be repeated on the 15th and the 25th of December, at 6PM in Amsterdam, noon in New York. Be there, or be square! Groetjes, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: RT on Dutch Radio!!!
Congrats. Sounds great! Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke, D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com --- On Mon, 12/5/11, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote: From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: RT on Dutch Radio!!! To: lutenet lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, December 5, 2011, 9:19 PM For those who missed the show, the archived stream is available now - http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 SONOOR! RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 12:51 AM Subject: RT on Dutch Radio!!! Anywhere in FM аether in the Netherlands, and worlwide on the web (5PM in NYC, 11PM in Amsterdam, midnight in Kyiv)! http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 This is the second hourlong installment in the series of broadcasts featuring Roman Turovsky's lute compositions on Ukrainian themes. The broadcasts would also include Julian Kytasty's compositions for flute, and ensemble compositions written jointly by Roman Turovsky and Hans Kockelmans. SONOOR is the podcast link. This broadcast will be repeated on the 15th and the 25th of December, at 6PM in Amsterdam, noon in New York. Be there, or be square! Groetjes, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
I agree wholeheartedly that transposing is a basic 'musicianship' skill that, like improvisation, professional musicians should possess. That is not to say every lutenist should spend the vast amounts of time and energy to develop this skill, since it's challenging enough just playing what's on the page sometimes. But the very idea that the notes as they appear on the page as 'sacrosanct' is counter to every ideal of true musicianship of any age. Sure, Dowland's song accompaniments are a little more worked out than Campion's, for instance, but a musician's skill should be measured in his or her ability to grasp the horizontal and vertical elements of a lute song accompaniment and, at the same time, interpret the sounds apparently intended by the combination of open and fingered strings in whatever transposed pitch. Having accompanied pop singers and played lounge acts, I can tell you it's a necessary skill to be able to work out an interesting accompaniment and even compose your own bass line on the spot from nothing more than chord symbols. There is no reason to think that historical musicians did not possess this skill. My only quibble with your essay, David, is the part about the 'Armada' class. Ian Harwood's article in the Lute (2007?) on Mathew Holmes and John Case dispels the idea that those who were granted degrees actually attended lectures. It appears that they pretty much paid the price and submitted the required test composition and, poof, they were granted the degree. That's not to say they were slackers as far as studying the science of music. RA Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:44:36 -0800 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu CC: vidan...@sbcglobal.net From: vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight Transposition at sight would have been possible for the best players, after all, some could hear a piece once and then write it down. The only question is how many could do it. Generally speaking, in the modern era, if your teachers insisted that you learn transposition, or if it was a requirement at the conservatory, then you have that skill, just like any other skill. Of course anyone who want to can learn it, like any other skill. If you watch Letterman, you can see Paul at the Keyboard make up an accompaniment in absolutely any key. The guest starts singing, impromptu, and Paul will play one and only one note (I assume he therefore does not have perfect pitch) he then instantly calculates the difference from the note the guest sang and the note he played, derives the key (it could be any key, no matter how horrendous) then adds a complete harmony. If the guest starts of in C Sharp major, well, Paul just plays along. Anyone with these kinds of skills could transpose anything. Another way to look at it is visualization. If you look at tab and see a keyboard score, transposition is straightforward. However, if you look at tab and see finger positions, you then need to add that intermediate step of seeing the notes. I personally feel that in order to play the tab you have to see the voice leading, but it is more important for some pieces than others. And it surely must have been the case back whenever that different people saw different things. An organist who played the lute would surely visualize all the parts; a singer who played the lute could presumably pick out a cue melody. And of course in Spain they sang from tab. Since organ tablature and german tab are so complicated, it seems likely that for some players visualizing the polyphony would have been pretty easy in comparison, or, if you grew up singing polyphony, it would also be second nature. What you see when you look at tab is a very interesting question. After looking at upside down tab for a while, your mind turns it around, just as our eye inverts images through its lens. When we see patterns that we have seen before, we relate them instantly to a set of interpretive memories. These pattern can be tab patterns, with no notes involved, or note patterns, or a combination. The mind is very flexible in what is sees. Even those who don't see any notes in the tab will instantly recognize a familiar ground bass or passemezzo either by eye or by ear. Similarly, those who transpose music use widely different and complex processes. You can play two chords, either in real sound or in your imagination, and transpose them by ear without even using a notational intermediary, and folk musicians do this all the time. You can use muscle memory to instantly transpose G to F because your fingers know that G down a tone feels a certain way, positionally. You can then transpose without tab or notes, just using
[LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight
The article from the Lute was, 'A Lecture in Musick, with the Practice thereof by Instrument in the Common Schooles', Mathew Holmes and Music at Oxford University c.1588-1627' in volume 45 (2005). RA Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 03:59:08 + To: vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: praelu...@hotmail.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight I agree wholeheartedly that transposing is a basic 'musicianship' skill that, like improvisation, professional musicians should possess. That is not to say every lutenist should spend the vast amounts of time and energy to develop this skill, since it's challenging enough just playing what's on the page sometimes. But the very idea that the notes as they appear on the page as 'sacrosanct' is counter to every ideal of true musicianship of any age. Sure, Dowland's song accompaniments are a little more worked out than Campion's, for instance, but a musician's skill should be measured in his or her ability to grasp the horizontal and vertical elements of a lute song accompaniment and, at the same time, interpret the sounds apparently intended by the combination of open and fingered strings in whatever transposed pitch. Having accompanied pop singers and played lounge acts, I can tell you it's a necessary skill to be able to work out an interesting accompaniment and even compose your own bass line on the spot from nothing more than chord symbols. There is no reason to think that historical musicians did not possess this skill. My only quibble with your essay, David, is the part about the 'Armada' class. Ian Harwood's article in the Lute (2007?) on Mathew Holmes and John Case dispels the idea that those who were granted degrees actually attended lectures. It appears that they pretty much paid the price and submitted the required test composition and, poof, they were granted the degree. That's not to say they were slackers as far as studying the science of music. RA Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:44:36 -0800 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu CC: vidan...@sbcglobal.net From: vidan...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight Transposition at sight would have been possible for the best players, after all, some could hear a piece once and then write it down. The only question is how many could do it. Generally speaking, in the modern era, if your teachers insisted that you learn transposition, or if it was a requirement at the conservatory, then you have that skill, just like any other skill. Of course anyone who want to can learn it, like any other skill. If you watch Letterman, you can see Paul at the Keyboard make up an accompaniment in absolutely any key. The guest starts singing, impromptu, and Paul will play one and only one note (I assume he therefore does not have perfect pitch) he then instantly calculates the difference from the note the guest sang and the note he played, derives the key (it could be any key, no matter how horrendous) then adds a complete harmony. If the guest starts of in C Sharp major, well, Paul just plays along. Anyone with these kinds of skills could transpose anything. Another way to look at it is visualization. If you look at tab and see a keyboard score, transposition is straightforward. However, if you look at tab and see finger positions, you then need to add that intermediate step of seeing the notes. I personally feel that in order to play the tab you have to see the voice leading, but it is more important for some pieces than others. And it surely must have been the case back whenever that different people saw different things. An organist who played the lute would surely visualize all the parts; a singer who played the lute could presumably pick out a cue melody. And of course in Spain they sang from tab. Since organ tablature and german tab are so complicated, it seems likely that for some players visualizing the polyphony would have been pretty easy in comparison, or, if you grew up singing polyphony, it would also be second nature. What you see when you look at tab is a very interesting question. After looking at upside down tab for a while, your mind turns it around, just as our eye inverts images through its lens. When we see patterns that we have seen before, we relate them instantly to a set of interpretive memories. These pattern can be tab patterns, with no notes involved, or note patterns, or a combination. The mind is very flexible in what is sees. Even those who don't see any notes in the tab will instantly recognize a familiar ground bass or passemezzo
[LUTE] Re: RT on Dutch Radio!!!
Congratulations to you, Roman, and all of the participants! (Especially list and Ning contributors Stuart, Jean-Marie, and Trond.) Very enjoyable. -- R On Dec 5, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: For those who missed the show, the archived stream is available now - http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php? date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 SONOOR! RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: BAROQUE-LUTE baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 12:51 AM Subject: RT on Dutch Radio!!! Anywhere in FM аether in the Netherlands, and worlwide on the web (5PM in NYC, 11PM in Amsterdam, midnight in Kyiv)! http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php? date=2011-12-05month=1detail=52618 This is the second hourlong installment in the series of broadcasts featuring Roman Turovsky's lute compositions on Ukrainian themes. The broadcasts would also include Julian Kytasty's compositions for flute, and ensemble compositions written jointly by Roman Turovsky and Hans Kockelmans. SONOOR is the podcast link. This broadcast will be repeated on the 15th and the 25th of December, at 6PM in Amsterdam, noon in New York. Be there, or be square! Groetjes, RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
