[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Is the lute in competition with the guitar? When did this war begin? Is the cello at war with the bass viol, the trombone with the sackbut, the trumpet with the cornetto, the bassoon with the rackett(sic), etc? Such an absurd cacophony. Bream's structural changes to the historical lute were no more drastic than the changes lute makers made to the renaissance lute to turn it into the archlute, theorbo, or baroque lute. If you don't agree with the changes, you are free to follow your own lights. Many people continue to play the six course renaissance lute and leave the archlutes and baroque lutes alone. Also, by the way, Bream himself acknowledges that his early lutes are not historical, although his later lutes are more so. Beyond his amazing technical abilities, Bream is a master of the various sonorities of the guitar and his lute. Like Segovia he could make the guitar or his lute sound like an orchestra. He is an amazing artist. Gary On 2013-12-06 11:35, erne...@aquila.mus.br wrote: This is a lute-talk, correct? I did not know Britten and Villa-Lobos composed for the lute, they are certainly not known for it. I know Bream played the lute, but his complete works collection is not too meaningfull for the lute today besides the historical (meaning the 1900-2000 period) rediscovery he helped forward. Generally speaking, we want to get more guitarists into the lute, not the other way around, isn't it? Ernesto Ett 11-99 242120 4 11-28376692 Em 06.12.2013, às 16:19, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com escreveu: On Dec 6, 2013, at 8:20 AM, erne...@aquila.mus.br wrote: his recordings do not fit into what I like to hear, say Hopkinson Smith and alumni. If you can direct me to Hopkinson Smith and Alumni play Britten and Villa-Lobos, I'd love to hear it. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Hi All, I am a bit dismayed by a modern orthodoxy about lutes and lute music which is so dismissive of things which stand outside that orthodoxy. Whether or not you like Bream's lutes or his playing, he was the first to show that it *could* be done. But the main thing which troubles me is that the basis of this current orthodoxy is so shaky. Modern lutemakers base their instruments on just a few museum specimens which are not necessarily representative of the multiplicity of lutes of the past, and while we now make lutes which are much closer to historical instruments than those of 20 or 30 years ago, we still don't understand how strings were made in the past and still can't reproduce them. Despite much research, modern players have to guess at the nature of musical phrasing and mostly ignore the very important dimension of ornamentation, either playing no ornaments at all or taking an anything goes approach. We also mostly ignore the fact that 17th and 18th century lute players played very close to the bridge with their fingers plucking almost at right angles to the strings. This has far-reaching implications - playing more or less thumb-inside and over the rose, modern players need quite high string tensions, probably much higher than were used in the past. We may like what the best players do now, but it is foolish to think that it is historically plausible, let alone correct. Martin --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Intavolations 51
Hi, there are new Lute Intavolations on IMSLP! http://lute-ensemble-tabulatures.npage.de/ For 2 Lutes Unsisono -- New! Schmid, Bernhard d. Ä - Zirler Bewahr mich Herr http://imslp.org/wiki/Bewar_mich_Herr_(Zirler,_Stephan) Clemens non PapaFrais et Gaillard-(Study-without any Dimunitions) http://imslp.org/wiki/Frisque_et_gaillard_(Clemens_non_Papa,_Jacobus)#IMSLP305362 Anonymous O sio potessi donna (Berchem-Bay. Staatsbibliothek Mus 271) http://imslp.org/wiki/O_sio_potessi_donna_(Berchem,_Jacquet_de) a corrected Version of - Schmid d. Ä., Bernhard Bon jour mon cuer http://imslp.org/wiki/Bon_jour_mon_cuer_(Schmid_I,_Bernhard) (I discovered some mistakes, corrected them and put it on the correct place-Schmid d. Ä., Bernhardnot Schmid d. J., Bernhard) Zarlino, Gioseffo 12 Bicinien aus 'Le Istitutioni Harmoniche' http://imslp.org/wiki/Le_Istitutioni_Harmoniche_(Zarlino,_Gioseffo) New fugas and corrected Titles: Madrigali a 2 voci in fuga (Asola, Giammateo) - http://imslp.org/wiki/Madrigali_a_2_voci_in_fuga_(Asola,_Giammateo) For 2 Lutes Ad Quartam -- Schmid, Bernhard d. Ä. Hertzlich lieb hab ich dich, o Herr http://imslp.org/wiki/Hertzlich_lieb_hab_ich_dich,_o_Herr_(Schmid_I,_Bernhard) Schmid, Bernhard d. Ä. Vray dieu disoit une fillette http://imslp.org/wiki/Vray_dieu_disoit_une_fillette_(Schmid_I,_Bernhard)#IMSLP305359 For 2 Lutes Ad Secundam -- Schmid, Bernhard d. Ä. Puis ne me peult venir (Crecquillon) http://imslp.org/wiki/Puis_ne_me_peult_venir_(Schmid_I,_Bernhard)#IMSLP305252 Gabrieli, AndreaCanzon Francese detta 'Pour ung plaisir' http://imslp.org/wiki/Canzon_Francese_detta_'Pour_ung_plaisir'_(Gabrieli,_Andrea) For Soprano and Lute -- Crecquillon, Thomas Voyez le tort Sopran Lute http://imslp.org/wiki/Voyez_le_tort_(Crecquillon,_Thomas) Crecquillon, Thomas Pour ung plaisirSopran Lute http://imslp.org/wiki/Pour_ung_plaisir_(Crecquillon,_Thomas) Arcadelt, Jacob Quand je me trouve Sopran Lute http://imslp.org/wiki/Quand_je_me_trouve_(Arcadelt,_Jacob) Rore, Cipriano de A la dolce ombra - Prima stanza Sopran Lute http://imslp.org/wiki/A_la_dolce_ombra_de_le_belle_frondi_(Rore,_Cipriano_de) Rore, Cipriano de Non vide il Mondo Seconda stanzaSopran Lute http://imslp.org/wiki/A_la_dolce_ombra_de_le_belle_frondi_(Rore,_Cipriano_de) Sandrin, Pierre Puisque de vous je n'ai autre visageSopran Lute http://imslp.org/wiki/Puisque_de_vous_je_n'ai_autre_visage_(Sandrin)#IMSLP305935 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Polish lute pieces
as I recall: all of Gomolka are 4-part vocals. RT On 12/6/2013 11:42 PM, Ed Durbrow wrote: IтАЩve received a bunch of Polish songs from a singer and wonder if there are any online tab versions available for any of these. IтАЩve chased down a few midi files, but turning them into tab could be quite time consuming. Ju┼╝ si─Щ zmierzcha - Wac┼Вaw z Szamotu┼В.pdf AllelujaChwalciePana(1)(Szamotulczyk).pdf DobrotliwoscPanska(Bazylik).pdf GdyZOkrutnej(Gomolka).pdf JesliDomu(Gomolka).pdf Ju┼╝ si─Щ zmierzcha - Wac┼Вaw z Szamotu┼В.pdf KrysteDniuNaszejSwiatlosci(1)(Szamotulczyk).pdf Modlitwa(1)(Szamotulczyk).pdf MojWiekuistyPasterz(Gomolka).pdf NiescieChwale(Gomolka).pdf RadToSlysze(Gomolka).pdf RzeklPan(Gomolka).pdf SiedzacPoNiskichBrzegach(Gomolka).pdf TobieNiesmiertelnyPanie(Gomolka).pdf TIA Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Thank you, Alain. This is music and playing/singing of the highest level. Ned On Dec 6, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Alain Veylit wrote: There is much to learn about lute songs in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA Just a passing comment... Alain On 12/06/2013 02:23 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: My most recent lute student originally came to me for lessons on how to play lute music in his beautiful Taylor steel-string guitar. Fine with me, I have a 7 string, steel string guitar on which I rarely play anything but lute music (a cheap Orpharion substitute). However, he fell so in love with the lute that he now has one being built and plays a rental in the meantime. We had exactly two lessons just on guitars. Hell, he forced me to switch over from teaching him lute music on guitar to just plain old lute lessons on lute. Brohinsky nailed it all rather well. Scheidler, the last documented professional lute player, played the emerging classical guitar as well as the obsolescing Baroque lute and bassoon. Had to make a living. So do a lot of us, still. I believe it was Willy Nelson who once said It's all one song- (or maybe it's the way he sings- :-) ) Dan On 12/6/2013 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: I think you're veering a bit far from the definition of force, but OK. On Dec 6, 2013, at 2:00 PM, William Brohinsky tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: Ernesto said: Generally speaking, we want to get more guitarists into the lute, not the other way around, isn't it? yes, someone expressed that idea. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On Dec 6, 2013, at 12:52 PM, William Brohinsky tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: I have to admit to not understanding the idea that the purpose of the list or of lutenists should be to try to force people's direction one way or the other. I don't think anyone has actually expressed that idea. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Martin, Well said. Bream worked largely by intuition based upon his 20th century training. While HIP-sters consult a basic foundation of empirical research, so much of what is done stylistically is pure conjecture. There's a large element of the Emperor's New Clothes. On many subjects, the sources are either silent, obscure, or so heavily filtered through our modern subconscious system of preconceptions that we should rightfully admit that there is no present answer to many important performance practice issues. But I'm not sure never goes over well with colleagues, so something is invented. Then we all agree to go on pretending that it works so well that it must really be what was done. Eventually it becomes dogma and the expected way early music should sound according to listeners in late 2013. But the Hoppy and ideological alumni-style is only one approach. Bream is another. Both are music. Chris P.S. For several years I've been playing very close to the bridge. Having lived with it for a while, I've been surprised to find that the effect of this position is actually more drastic in the regions of phrasing and articulation than tone color. Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com On Sat, 12/7/13, Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk wrote: Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, December 7, 2013, 5:42 AM Hi All, I am a bit dismayed by a modern orthodoxy about lutes and lute music which is so dismissive of things which stand outside that orthodoxy. Whether or not you like Bream's lutes or his playing, he was the first to show that it *could* be done. But the main thing which troubles me is that the basis of this current orthodoxy is so shaky. Modern lutemakers base their instruments on just a few museum specimens which are not necessarily representative of the multiplicity of lutes of the past, and while we now make lutes which are much closer to historical instruments than those of 20 or 30 years ago, we still don't understand how strings were made in the past and still can't reproduce them. Despite much research, modern players have to guess at the nature of musical phrasing and mostly ignore the very important dimension of ornamentation, either playing no ornaments at all or taking an anything goes approach. We also mostly ignore the fact that 17th and 18th century lute players played very close to the bridge with their fingers plucking almost at right angles to the strings. This has far-reaching implications - playing more or less thumb-inside and over the rose, modern players need quite high string tensions, probably much higher than were used in the past. We may like what the best players do now, but it is foolish to think that it is historically plausible, let alone correct. Martin --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Another intelligent post from a thinking person Allan www.guitarandlute.com Martin, Well said. Bream worked largely by intuition based upon his 20th century training. While HIP-sters consult a basic foundation of empirical research, so much of what is done stylistically is pure conjecture. There's a large element of the Emperor's New Clothes. On many subjects, the sources are either silent, obscure, or so heavily filtered through our modern subconscious system of preconceptions that we should rightfully admit that there is no present answer to many important performance practice issues. But I'm not sure never goes over well with colleagues, so something is invented. Then we all agree to go on pretending that it works so well that it must really be what was done. Eventually it becomes dogma and the expected way early music should sound according to listeners in late 2013. But the Hoppy and ideological alumni-style is only one approach. Bream is another. Both are music. Chris P.S. For several years I've been playing very close to the bridge. Having lived with it for a while, I've been surprised to find that the effect of this position is actually more drastic in the regions of phrasing and articulation than tone color. Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com On Sat, 12/7/13, Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk wrote: Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, December 7, 2013, 5:42 AM Hi All, I am a bit dismayed by a modern orthodoxy about lutes and lute music which is so dismissive of things which stand outside that orthodoxy. Whether or not you like Bream's lutes or his playing, he was the first to show that it *could* be done. But the main thing which troubles me is that the basis of this current orthodoxy is so shaky. Modern lutemakers base their instruments on just a few museum specimens which are not necessarily representative of the multiplicity of lutes of the past, and while we now make lutes which are much closer to historical instruments than those of 20 or 30 years ago, we still don't understand how strings were made in the past and still can't reproduce them. Despite much research, modern players have to guess at the nature of musical phrasing and mostly ignore the very important dimension of ornamentation, either playing no ornaments at all or taking an anything goes approach. We also mostly ignore the fact that 17th and 18th century lute players played very close to the bridge with their fingers plucking almost at right angles to the strings. This has far-reaching implications - playing more or less thumb-inside and over the rose, modern players need quite high string tensions, probably much higher than were used in the past. We may like what the best players do now, but it is foolish to think that it is historically plausible, let alone correct. Martin --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Actually, beyond the voice/guitar duets, the amazing opening solo pieces by Joe Pass - to me - are very reminiscent of the style of lute playing during the early Baroque: * They are based on popular songs * They mix counterpoint and passagii- like Kaspberger or Laurencini for instance * They mix techniques -- Joe discretely puts the pick in his mouth and takes it out in the middle of a piece, just as lutenists would switch thumb under and thumb over in the middle of a piece * They make use of basso continuo technique and are semi-improvisational in nature * They are virtuoso pieces meant for just one guy with a not so loud instrument to capture the attention of the audience Granted Joe's lute is flatter and is missing a few strings, but his passion to create his own instruments is also in keeping with Piccinini's experimentations in lute design. So sometimes the past may be in front of our eyes. IMO, every lute learning course should include improvisation techniques based on the contemporary repertoire, the inclusion of several right-hand techniques, and an emphasis that musicality comes first. Finally, of course, it should teach each player to develop their own style and character, because no one good player plays like the other guys. Play your lute like Joe Pass plays his guitar and then who will care what instrument you play... On 12/07/2013 05:57 AM, Edward Mast wrote: Thank you, Alain. This is music and playing/singing of the highest level. Ned On Dec 6, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Alain Veylit wrote: There is much to learn about lute songs in this video: [1]http://www.youtube.com /watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA Just a passing comment... Alain On 12/06/2013 02:23 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: My most recent lute student originally came to me for lessons on how to play lut e music in his beautiful Taylor steel-string guitar. Fine with me, I have a 7 st ring, steel string guitar on which I rarely play anything but lute music (a chea p Orpharion substitute). However, he fell so in love with the lute that he now h as one being built and plays a rental in the meantime. We had exactly two lesson s just on guitars. Hell, he forced me to switch over from teaching him lute musi c on guitar to just plain old lute lessons on lute. Brohinsky nailed it all rather well. Scheidler, the last documented professional lute player, played the emerging classical guitar as well as the obsolescing Ba roque lute and bassoon. Had to make a living. So do a lot of us, still. I believe it was Willy Nelson who once said It's all one song- (or maybe it's the way he sings- :-) ) Dan On 12/6/2013 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: I think you're veering a bit far from the definition of force, but OK. On Dec 6, 2013, at 2:00 PM, William Brohinsky [2]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: Ernesto said: Generally speaking, we want to get more guitarists into the lute, not the other way around, isn't it? yes, someone expressed that idea. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, howard posner [3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On Dec 6, 2013, at 12:52 PM, William Brohinsky [4]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: I have to admit to not understanding the idea that the purpose of the list or of lutenists should be to try to force people's direction one way or the other. I don't think anyone has actually expressed that idea. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA 2. mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com 3. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 4. mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Thank you Alain for the link. I have not run into Joe Pass before (shows my sheltered existence). Phenomenal and beautiful. Music is music and, when beautifully played, wonderful. Regards David -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Alain Veylit Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2013 10:06 AM To: Edward Mast Cc: Lute Dmth Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed Actually, beyond the voice/guitar duets, the amazing opening solo pieces by Joe Pass - to me - are very reminiscent of the style of lute playing during the early Baroque: * They are based on popular songs * They mix counterpoint and passagii- like Kaspberger or Laurencini for instance * They mix techniques -- Joe discretely puts the pick in his mouth and takes it out in the middle of a piece, just as lutenists would switch thumb under and thumb over in the middle of a piece * They make use of basso continuo technique and are semi-improvisational in nature * They are virtuoso pieces meant for just one guy with a not so loud instrument to capture the attention of the audience Granted Joe's lute is flatter and is missing a few strings, but his passion to create his own instruments is also in keeping with Piccinini's experimentations in lute design. So sometimes the past may be in front of our eyes. IMO, every lute learning course should include improvisation techniques based on the contemporary repertoire, the inclusion of several right-hand techniques, and an emphasis that musicality comes first. Finally, of course, it should teach each player to develop their own style and character, because no one good player plays like the other guys. Play your lute like Joe Pass plays his guitar and then who will care what instrument you play... On 12/07/2013 05:57 AM, Edward Mast wrote: Thank you, Alain. This is music and playing/singing of the highest level. Ned On Dec 6, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Alain Veylit wrote: There is much to learn about lute songs in this video: [1]http://www.youtube.com /watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA Just a passing comment... Alain On 12/06/2013 02:23 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: My most recent lute student originally came to me for lessons on how to play lut e music in his beautiful Taylor steel-string guitar. Fine with me, I have a 7 st ring, steel string guitar on which I rarely play anything but lute music (a chea p Orpharion substitute). However, he fell so in love with the lute that he now h as one being built and plays a rental in the meantime. We had exactly two lesson s just on guitars. Hell, he forced me to switch over from teaching him lute musi c on guitar to just plain old lute lessons on lute. Brohinsky nailed it all rather well. Scheidler, the last documented professional lute player, played the emerging classical guitar as well as the obsolescing Ba roque lute and bassoon. Had to make a living. So do a lot of us, still. I believe it was Willy Nelson who once said It's all one song- (or maybe it's the way he sings- :-) ) Dan On 12/6/2013 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: I think you're veering a bit far from the definition of force, but OK. On Dec 6, 2013, at 2:00 PM, William Brohinsky [2]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: Ernesto said: Generally speaking, we want to get more guitarists into the lute, not the other way around, isn't it? yes, someone expressed that idea. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, howard posner [3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On Dec 6, 2013, at 12:52 PM, William Brohinsky [4]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: I have to admit to not understanding the idea that the purpose of the list or of lutenists should be to try to force people's direction one way or the other. I don't think anyone has actually expressed that idea. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA 2. mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com 3. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 4. mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Merci, Alain! After I read your post I looked up Joe Pass (because many years ago I had his vinyl LP Virtuoso and loved it) and then Wes Montgomery, because he was one of Joe's influences. Apparently Wes played only with his thumb! (up and down strokes). So even recent history teaches us that music comes first, instruments and technique come second. When we look at Piccinini or Kapsberger, or even Francesco da Milano, we can only wonder, and speculate, and try to be better musicians. If we're serious about studying/performing historical music, anything goes is not an option, but we are really in desperate need of a realignment of our priorities - gut strings (and no body frets) yes, playing slavishly like some modern lute God, no! Martin On 07/12/2013 19:06, Alain Veylit wrote: Actually, beyond the voice/guitar duets, the amazing opening solo pieces by Joe Pass - to me - are very reminiscent of the style of lute playing during the early Baroque: * They are based on popular songs * They mix counterpoint and passagii- like Kaspberger or Laurencini for instance * They mix techniques -- Joe discretely puts the pick in his mouth and takes it out in the middle of a piece, just as lutenists would switch thumb under and thumb over in the middle of a piece * They make use of basso continuo technique and are semi-improvisational in nature * They are virtuoso pieces meant for just one guy with a not so loud instrument to capture the attention of the audience Granted Joe's lute is flatter and is missing a few strings, but his passion to create his own instruments is also in keeping with Piccinini's experimentations in lute design. So sometimes the past may be in front of our eyes. IMO, every lute learning course should include improvisation techniques based on the contemporary repertoire, the inclusion of several right-hand techniques, and an emphasis that musicality comes first. Finally, of course, it should teach each player to develop their own style and character, because no one good player plays like the other guys. Play your lute like Joe Pass plays his guitar and then who will care what instrument you play... On 12/07/2013 05:57 AM, Edward Mast wrote: Thank you, Alain. This is music and playing/singing of the highest level. Ned On Dec 6, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Alain Veylit wrote: There is much to learn about lute songs in this video: [1]http://www.youtube.com /watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA Just a passing comment... Alain On 12/06/2013 02:23 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: My most recent lute student originally came to me for lessons on how to play lut e music in his beautiful Taylor steel-string guitar. Fine with me, I have a 7 st ring, steel string guitar on which I rarely play anything but lute music (a chea p Orpharion substitute). However, he fell so in love with the lute that he now h as one being built and plays a rental in the meantime. We had exactly two lesson s just on guitars. Hell, he forced me to switch over from teaching him lute musi c on guitar to just plain old lute lessons on lute. Brohinsky nailed it all rather well. Scheidler, the last documented professional lute player, played the emerging classical guitar as well as the obsolescing Ba roque lute and bassoon. Had to make a living. So do a lot of us, still. I believe it was Willy Nelson who once said It's all one song- (or maybe it's the way he sings- :-) ) Dan On 12/6/2013 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: I think you're veering a bit far from the definition of force, but OK. On Dec 6, 2013, at 2:00 PM, William Brohinsky [2]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: Ernesto said: Generally speaking, we want to get more guitarists into the lute, not the other way around, isn't it? yes, someone expressed that idea. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, howard posner [3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On Dec 6, 2013, at 12:52 PM, William Brohinsky [4]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: I have to admit to not understanding the idea that the purpose of the list or of lutenists should be to try to force people's direction one way or the other. I don't think anyone has actually expressed that idea. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA 2. mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com 3. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 4. mailto:tiorbin...@gmail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
[LUTE] Saturday quote - Support our tropes
We have posted our Saturday quote, this week on using lutes to stay alive. [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-T0 Donna Ron -- References Visible links 1. http://wp.me/p15OyV-T0 Hidden links: 3. http://wp.me/p15OyV-T0 4. http://wp.me/p15OyV-T0 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
Joe Pass, one of my all-time heroes and sources of inspiration. He apparently spend some time in rehab and came out with a 'new' idea: melody, harmony and bass all in one guitar. Listen to his Virtuoso 1, 2, 3 and 4 (yes, four albums, and all four on YouTube) and you'll know what to aim for in your solo playing, whether it be Francesco, Dowland, Weiss or Britten. And then his sensitivity in accompanying singers ... And, as a special treat for the Early Music Brigade, there's his 'acoustic' (non-amplified jazz guitar) Gershwin recording with Oscar Peterson on clavichord. Do read the sleeve notes of that album on how Oscar Peterson came to the clavichord. Enjoy! David *** David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** On 7 December 2013 19:06, Alain Veylit [3]al...@signtracks.com wrote: Actually, beyond the voice/guitar duets, the amazing opening solo pieces by Joe Pass - to me - are very reminiscent of the style of lute playing during the early Baroque: * They are based on popular songs * They mix counterpoint and passagii- like Kaspberger or Laurencini for instance * They mix techniques -- Joe discretely puts the pick in his mouth and takes it out in the middle of a piece, just as lutenists would switch thumb under and thumb over in the middle of a piece * They make use of basso continuo technique and are semi-improvisational in nature * They are virtuoso pieces meant for just one guy with a not so loud instrument to capture the attention of the audience Granted Joe's lute is flatter and is missing a few strings, but his passion to create his own instruments is also in keeping with Piccinini's experimentations in lute design. So sometimes the past may be in front of our eyes. IMO, every lute learning course should include improvisation techniques based on the contemporary repertoire, the inclusion of several right-hand techniques, and an emphasis that musicality comes first. Finally, of course, it should teach each player to develop their own style and character, because no one good player plays like the other guys. Play your lute like Joe Pass plays his guitar and then who will care what instrument you play... On 12/07/2013 05:57 AM, Edward Mast wrote: Thank you, Alain. This is music and playing/singing of the highest level. Ned On Dec 6, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Alain Veylit wrote: There is much to learn about lute songs in this video: [1][4]http://www.youtube.com /watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA Just a passing comment... Alain On 12/06/2013 02:23 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: My most recent lute student originally came to me for lessons on how to play lut e music in his beautiful Taylor steel-string guitar. Fine with me, I have a 7 st ring, steel string guitar on which I rarely play anything but lute music (a chea p Orpharion substitute). However, he fell so in love with the lute that he now h as one being built and plays a rental in the meantime. We had exactly two lesson s just on guitars. Hell, he forced me to switch over from teaching him lute musi c on guitar to just plain old lute lessons on lute. Brohinsky nailed it all rather well. Scheidler, the last documented professional lute player, played the emerging classical guitar as well as the obsolescing Ba roque lute and bassoon. Had to make a living. So do a lot of us, still. I believe it was Willy Nelson who once said It's all one song- (or maybe it's the way he sings- :-) ) Dan On 12/6/2013 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: I think you're veering a bit far from the definition of force, but OK. On Dec 6, 2013, at 2:00 PM, William Brohinsky [2][5]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: Ernesto said: Generally speaking, we want to get more guitarists into the lute, not the other way around, isn't it? yes, someone expressed that idea. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:09 PM, howard posner [3][6]howardpos...@ca.rr.com wrote: On Dec 6, 2013, at 12:52 PM, William Brohinsky [4][7]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: I have to admit to not understanding the idea that the purpose of the list or of lutenists should be to try to force people's direction one way or the other. I don't think anyone has actually expressed that idea. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIz LJA 2.
[LUTE] Two short pieces by Howard Skempton - played on lute
According to the wiki entry, Howard Skempton's music is 'characterised by stripped down, essentials-only choice of materials, absence of formal development and a strong emphasis on melody'. Trace is written for piano right and only - and just a single line - and lasts for about 50 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw7r1LFUz9Q Piano Piece 1969 is even more 'stripped down'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCmb3h-J1fE Stuart --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bream Collection... I just noticed
I agree totally David. Joe Pass has been an inspiration for me for a very long time. Listen or buy the book with duet from Joe Paess and Herb Ellis. Counterpoint all around. Gilbert 2013/12/7 David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com Joe Pass, one of my all-time heroes and sources of inspiration. He apparently spend some time in rehab and came out with a 'new' idea: melody, harmony and bass all in one guitar. Listen to his Virtuoso 1, 2, 3 and 4 (yes, four albums, and all four on YouTube) and you'll know what to aim for in your solo playing, whether it be Francesco, Dowland, Weiss or Britten. And then his sensitivity in accompanying singers ... And, as a special treat for the Early Music Brigade, there's his 'acoustic' (non-amplified jazz guitar) Gershwin recording with Oscar Peterson on clavichord. Do read the sleeve notes of that album on how Oscar Peterson came to the clavichord. Enjoy! David *** David van Ooijen [1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2][3]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** On 7 December 2013 19:06, Alain Veylit [3][4]al...@signtracks.com wrote: Actually, beyond the voice/guitar duets, the amazing opening solo pieces by Joe Pass - to me - are very reminiscent of the style of lute playing during the early Baroque: * They are based on popular songs * They mix counterpoint and passagii- like Kaspberger or Laurencini for instance * They mix techniques -- Joe discretely puts the pick in his mouth and takes it out in the middle of a piece, just as lutenists would switch thumb under and thumb over in the middle of a piece * They make use of basso continuo technique and are semi-improvisational in nature * They are virtuoso pieces meant for just one guy with a not so loud instrument to capture the attention of the audience Granted Joe's lute is flatter and is missing a few strings, but his passion to create his own instruments is also in keeping with Piccinini's experimentations in lute design. So sometimes the past may be in front of our eyes. IMO, every lute learning course should include improvisation techniques based on the contemporary repertoire, the inclusion of several right-hand techniques, and an emphasis that musicality comes first. Finally, of course, it should teach each player to develop their own style and character, because no one good player plays like the other guys. Play your lute like Joe Pass plays his guitar and then who will care what instrument you play... On 12/07/2013 05:57 AM, Edward Mast wrote: Thank you, Alain. This is music and playing/singing of the highest level. Ned On Dec 6, 2013, at 6:13 PM, Alain Veylit wrote: There is much to learn about lute songs in this video: [1][4][5]http://www.youtube.com /watch?feature=player_detailpagev=ZzMRwBIzLJA Just a passing comment... Alain On 12/06/2013 02:23 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: My most recent lute student originally came to me for lessons on how to play lut e music in his beautiful Taylor steel-string guitar. Fine with me, I have a 7 st ring, steel string guitar on which I rarely play anything but lute music (a chea p Orpharion substitute). However, he fell so in love with the lute that he now h as one being built and plays a rental in the meantime. We had exactly two lesson s just on guitars. Hell, he forced me to switch over from teaching him lute musi c on guitar to just plain old lute lessons on lute. Brohinsky nailed it all rather well. Scheidler, the last documented professional lute player, played the emerging classical guitar as well as the obsolescing Ba roque lute and bassoon. Had to make a living. So do a lot of us, still. I believe it was Willy Nelson who once said It's all one song- (or maybe it's the way he sings- :-) ) Dan On 12/6/2013 2:05 PM, howard posner wrote: I think you're veering a bit far from the definition of force, but OK. On Dec 6, 2013, at 2:00 PM, William Brohinsky [2][5][6]tiorbin...@gmail.com wrote: Ernesto said: Generally speaking, we want to get more guitarists into the lute, not the other way around, isn't it? yes, someone expressed that idea. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at
[LUTE] Re: Polish lute pieces
Yes, all 4-parts vocal music, Waclaw z Szamotol too, so the singer could sing the soprano part, lute should cover the rest. Magdalena On Saturday, December 7, 2013 7:11:10 AM, r.turov...@gmail.com r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: as I recall: all of Gomolka are 4-part vocals. RT On 12/6/2013 11:42 PM, Ed Durbrow wrote: IND-D-(c)ve received a bunch of Polish songs from a singer and wonder if there are any online tab versions available for any of these. IND-D-(c)ve chased down a few midi files, but turning them into tab could be quite time consuming. Jua 1/4a siaD-(c) zmierzcha - Waca 1/4D-aw z Szamotua 1/4D-.pdf AllelujaChwalciePana(1)(Szamotulczyk).pdf DobrotliwoscPanska(Bazylik).pdf GdyZOkrutnej(Gomolka).pdf JesliDomu(Gomolka).pdf Jua 1/4a siaD-(c) zmierzcha - Waca 1/4D-aw z Szamotua 1/4D-.pdf KrysteDniuNaszejSwiatlosci(1)(Szamotulczyk).pdf Modlitwa(1)(Szamotulczyk).pdf MojWiekuistyPasterz(Gomolka).pdf NiescieChwale(Gomolka).pdf RadToSlysze(Gomolka).pdf RzeklPan(Gomolka).pdf SiedzacPoNiskichBrzegach(Gomolka).pdf TobieNiesmiertelnyPanie(Gomolka).pdf TIA Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch [2]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch 2. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Pass
As we are becoming more jazzier these days, I've just bumped into this programme with Joe Pass: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HAZP7nWo6A -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HAZP7nWo6A To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pass
As we are becoming more jazzier these days, Julian Bream started his guitar days playing jazz, which brings us back to the beginning of this discussion: good players are good players, whatever their instrument, style or hip-factor. David -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
