[LUTE] Broeken nylgut string

[Wim Loos]

   Dear luteplayers,
   Within a relative short periode, two times my g' (0.44mm nylgut) on a
   7-c Renaissance lute has broken. Sounds this familliar to you? What do
   you suggest as an alternative.
   Wim Loos

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[LUTE] Re: Hole in the Wall

[Arto Wikla]

Oops! I have already made the intabulation! Just called it "Purcell: 
Hornpipe".


Here is the tab:
https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/Arciliuto/PurcellHornpipe200617.JPG

And here is my YouTube example of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7hRdN00B3w=youtu.be

Arto


On 19/02/18 08:06, howard posner wrote:

On Feb 18, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Arto Wikla  wrote:

Dear theoj89294(?)

Making an intabualation of that nice piece is not very complicated. If you 
wish, I can quite easily make one for you in the near future. ... In case you 
just start signing your messages... ;-)

Arto


Arto, I’m afraid you’ve gravely insulted the 89294 family.  Ever since Roger 
89294 of Delaware signed the Declaration of Independence, the 89294 family name 
has been much honored in America, along with the Vanderbilts, Adamses, and, of 
course, Trumps.




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[LUTE] Re: Hole in the Wall

[howard posner]

> On Feb 18, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Arto Wikla  wrote:
> 
> Dear theoj89294(?)
> 
> Making an intabualation of that nice piece is not very complicated. If you 
> wish, I can quite easily make one for you in the near future. ... In case you 
> just start signing your messages... ;-)
> 
> Arto

Arto, I’m afraid you’ve gravely insulted the 89294 family.  Ever since Roger 
89294 of Delaware signed the Declaration of Independence, the 89294 family name 
has been much honored in America, along with the Vanderbilts, Adamses, and, of 
course, Trumps.




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[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?

[Tristan von Neumann]

I have heard [lu:v] before - in the TV series "Misfits"...
The character is a white trash girl with a thick accent...
I don't know exactly where this is coming from today, maybe a British 
native can explain.


Am 18.02.2018 um 23:55 schrieb Dmitry Medvedev:
A recording of English lute songs by Charles Daniels and Nigel North 
comes to mind. But, interestingly, there are certain differences between 
Daniels' pronunciation and David Crystal's theory. For example, 'love' 
is sung as [lu:v], and 'move' / 'remove' are sung close to modern 
pronunciation to preserve the rhyme. Crystal suggests exactly the 
opposite - 'love' would have sounded more or less as it sounds now, but 
'move' would have sounded differently. I personally prefer how it sounds 
with [lu:v], but not sure if that's historically correct. Maybe there 
were differences between spoken and sung pronunciation.


Dmitry

On 2/18/2018 1:31 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:

Hi All,

The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find 
difficult and interesting:


http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/

Best wishes,

Martin



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[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?

[Dmitry Medvedev]

A recording of English lute songs by Charles Daniels and Nigel North 
comes to mind. But, interestingly, there are certain differences between 
Daniels' pronunciation and David Crystal's theory. For example, 'love' 
is sung as [lu:v], and 'move' / 'remove' are sung close to modern 
pronunciation to preserve the rhyme. Crystal suggests exactly the 
opposite - 'love' would have sounded more or less as it sounds now, but 
'move' would have sounded differently. I personally prefer how it sounds 
with [lu:v], but not sure if that's historically correct. Maybe there 
were differences between spoken and sung pronunciation.


Dmitry

On 2/18/2018 1:31 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:

Hi All,

The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find 
difficult and interesting:


http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/

Best wishes,

Martin



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[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?

[lsa]

At the 1982 LSA Seminar, the late Richard Jensen gave a presentation, 
"Pronunciation of Elizabethan English," with examples sung by Mary Beverley. A 
cassette tape is available for sale to LSA members (#T-6). But one of my future 
projects is to post an mp3 of this, and the other lectures given at the 
Rochester Michigan seminars, in the members section of the LSA website. Maybe 
sooner, rather than later, of this particular talk, now that an interest has 
been raised.
-Anne


-Anne Burns
LSA Microfilms and Back Issues

Join the Lute Society of America!

http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/Membership



On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 20:32:59 +0100, Tristan von Neumann  wrote:

Thanks Martin!

I have been wondering when "OP" singers would appear on the stage :)
I have a few questions:

* are there any OP singers of Lute song? It seems if there were, you 
would have included a video...

* how did Dowland perform his songs in for example Wolfenbüttel?
Or did he just play solo lute?

(this question to all)
* as a native speaker of English (if you are), how does OP sound to your 
ear?

For me as a German native I find OP much more down to earth but also 
more poetic.
I agree with "posh" for BBC English.
(I suspect Upper class English is Anglosaxon English with a French 
(Norman) accent. Compare "Oh Hello!" to "Heir hair lair!" :))



Am 18.02.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Martin Shepherd:
> Hi All,
> 
> The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find 
> difficult and interesting:
> 
> http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Hole in the Wall

[Arto Wikla]

Dear theoj89294(?)

Making an intabualation of that nice piece is not very complicated. If 
you wish, I can quite easily make one for you in the near future. ... In 
case you just start signing your messages... ;-)


Arto

On 18/02/18 23:43, theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:

Dear Lute community:

Are there any intabulations of the English tune 'Hole in the Wall'
(Playford?) for r or b lute? Many thanks, I've always liked that
melody. trj

--


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[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?

[Rainer]

On 18.02.2018 19:31, Martin Shepherd wrote:

Hi All,

The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find difficult and 
interesting:

http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/




This reminds me of Goethe's accent.

Goethe was born in Frankfurt and obviously he had sort of a Frankfurt accent.

There is the famous case of Grete's prayer:

„Ach neige,

Du Schmerzensreiche“

which doesn't rhyme at all in German.

In Hessian dialect is does:

„Ach neische,
du Schmerzensreische“


Which led to the well known joke about his last words.
It is reported that he said

"Mehr Licht" (more light)

Of course, he wanted to say

„Määr licht hier so schläscht.“.


Regarding German Lieder: I think it does not really matter that Schubert, Wolf, 
Mahler and others certainly had a heavy Viennese accent which probably would 
sound ridiculous on the stage.

Wilhelm Müller was born in Dessau.

Rellstab was born in Berlin. I would not recommend to sing "Leise flehen meine 
Lieder" with a Berlin accent, though.

Rainer



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[LUTE] Hole in the Wall

[theoj89294]

   Dear Lute community:

   Are there any intabulations of the English tune 'Hole in the Wall'
   (Playford?) for r or b lute? Many thanks, I've always liked that
   melody. trj

   --


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[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?

[Tristan von Neumann]

Thanks Martin!

I have been wondering when "OP" singers would appear on the stage :)
I have a few questions:

* are there any OP singers of Lute song? It seems if there were, you 
would have included a video...


* how did Dowland perform his songs in for example Wolfenbüttel?
Or did he just play solo lute?

(this question to all)
* as a native speaker of English (if you are), how does OP sound to your 
ear?


For me as a German native I find OP much more down to earth but also 
more poetic.

I agree with "posh" for BBC English.
(I suspect Upper class English is Anglosaxon English with a French 
(Norman) accent. Compare "Oh Hello!" to "Heir hair lair!" :))




Am 18.02.2018 um 19:31 schrieb Martin Shepherd:

Hi All,

The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find 
difficult and interesting:


http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/

Best wishes,

Martin



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[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?

[Jacob Johnson]

   I'm sorry, the IPA symbols seem to have gotten messed up!  Rs were
   mostly pronounced as alveolar approximants (the "pirate" R) in
   Elizabethan London, as opposed to  alveolar trills or alveolar taps.
   Jacob Johnson
   [uc?export=downloadid=0B6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQrevid=0B6_g
   M3BRE6ZraW9nQ2U4SGNwV0tYVWxobnNBVjBsZi9FNHhzPQ]
   Guitar/Lute
   [1]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com
   469.237.0625.

   --

References

   1. http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/


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[LUTE] Re: OP for lute songs?

[Jacob Johnson]

   Thank you Martin! This is a subject in which I'm very interested. It's
   just terribly unfortunate that Ben and David Crystal decided to call it
   "Original Pronunciation"-- it smacks so much of "Authentic Performance"
   that I'd much rather hear "OP" called "historically informed
   pronunciation".
   I'd also note that the "r"s of Elizabethan London would not have been
   rolled, but would have been pronounced as the "pirate r",   [ɹ], and
   not the trill or tap ([r] and [ɾ] respectively.)
   Regards,
   â
   Jacob Johnson
   [uc?export=downloadid=0B6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQrevid=0B6_g
   M3BRE6ZraW9nQ2U4SGNwV0tYVWxobnNBVjBsZi9FNHhzPQ]
   Guitar/Lute
   [1]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com
   469.237.0625.
   On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Martin Shepherd
   <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote:

 Hi All,
 The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find
 difficult and interesting:
 [3]http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-
 say-it/
 Best wishes,
 Martin
 ---
 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
 [4]https://www.avast.com/antivirus
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/
   2. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   3. http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/
   4. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] OP for lute songs?

[Martin Shepherd]

Hi All,

The latest luteshop blog treats a subject which many of us find 
difficult and interesting:


http://luteshop.co.uk/its-not-just-what-you-say-its-how-you-say-it/

Best wishes,

Martin



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