[LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)
Dowland uses the 14th semitone- tab letter "p"- which is found in John Langton's Galliard. Semitone 13, written as (13) can be found in Molinaro's fine fantasia #12, and it is indeed the 20th semi-tone in Toccata #1 by Picinnini from his 2nd book, lower case "l" being the tab letter; which in this book begins with letter "d" for the 12 fret, or (semitone, in the absence of wooden body frets). -Dan W. On 3/28/2019 8:39 AM, Rainer wrote: Yes, it's as simple as that. n=12 o=13, p=14, .. so j is the only one that is not used. In those days there was no real difference between "i" and "j". Dowland uses p somewhere, Piccinini goes much higher (20th fret) and ages ago somebody found a piece that went even higher (I think it was 26) in an 18th century tablature. Rainer On 28.03.2019 11:11, Jurgen Frenz wrote: Hello there, my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images so a message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with the relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive. I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's FB page as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute. There is this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der Schlacht von Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as "p", "r" and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a', 'bb' and 'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And where are these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a screen shot of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to discuss the musical quality of that lengthy piece. [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z Any advice would be very welcome! Best wishes Jurgen -- "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen." JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi References 1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)
Thanks for your reply. what about Q? Is it used? If so, 't' would refer to c# assuming g tuning and harmonically the piece wouldn't make sense being in F if I remember well. I was assuming q is not used quite like j in order to avoid confusion with o. But I really do not know. Jurgen -- “There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.” Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:39 PM, Rainer wrote: > Yes, it's as simple as that. > > n=12 > o=13, > p=14, > .. > > so j is the only one that is not used. In those days there was no real > difference between "i" and "j". > > Dowland uses p somewhere, Piccinini goes much higher (20th fret) and ages ago > somebody found a piece that went even higher (I think it was 26) in an 18th > century tablature. > > Rainer > > On 28.03.2019 11:11, Jurgen Frenz wrote: > > > Hello there, > > > > my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images so a > > message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with the > > relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive. > > > > I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's FB page > > as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute. There is > > this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der Schlacht von > > Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as "p", "r" > > and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would > > correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a', 'bb' and > > 'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And where are > > these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a screen shot > > of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to discuss the > > musical quality of that lengthy piece. > > > > [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z > > > > Any advice would be very welcome! > > > > Best wishes Jurgen > > > > -- > > "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen." > > > > JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi > > > > > > References > > > > 1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy theorbo neck
Virtus stat in medio. RT On 3/28/2019 9:37 AM, Luca Manassero wrote: Dear all, thank you for all your interesting suggestions! I'll probably think again about it ;-) All the best, Luca On dom, 24 mar 2019 05:10:08 +0100 Howard Posner wrote I'd have asked him the question I asked you. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 23, 2019, at 18:02, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Pat's opinion re the luthier's fault. > RT > >> On 3/23/2019 7:01 PM, howard posner wrote: >> What do you base that conclusion on? >> Did the lute formerly have a lighter neck? >> >>> On Mar 23, 2019, at 3:16 PM, [2]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> One of my lutes is neck-heavy, and it definitely has been detrimental to its sound. >>> RT >>> >>> >>> [3]http://turovsky.org >>> Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes. >>> On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:48 PM, [4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de wrote: My lute builder, Dieter Schossig, is actually a physicist, and he also told me about this. It's about the energy that gets lost in the neck, instead of reinforcing the sound. Am 23.03.2019 22:29 schrieb John Mardinly: > Some guitar makers have also believed that neck stiffness improves the > sound. Ramirez 1A guitars have a significant graphite-epoxy inset along > the neck to stiffen it, and that is said to be significant in a neck > that is only 66.7cm. > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. > On Mar 23, 2019, at 2:22 PM, howard posner <[1][5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> > wrote: > On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Luca Manassero <[2][6]l...@manassero.net> > wrote: > I‘m about to ask him to rebuild the long neck of my big Hasenfuss > theorbo, as the instrument has a fantastic voice, but Hasenfuss > built a > very heavy long neck, so it is really painful to homd during > concerts. > A lighter neck should solve the issue. > All the best, > Luca > Consider that the heavy neck may be part of what makes the fantastic > voice. I've been told that a neck that's heavy, and therefore does not > vibrate, increases resonance because a vibrating neck has a damping > effect on the body of the instrument. I don't recall whether Hendrik > told me that, or it was volunteered by someone else, and I can't vouch > for its accuracy as a matter of acoustical science. > But I can tell you that the heavy neck on my Hasenfuss theorbo was > never a problem because I never held the instrument while I played it. > I just used a strap, and ran a leather or fake-leather bootlace from > the bridge-end of the instrument and sat on it (the lace, NOT the > instrument). I could take my hands off the theorbo completely. > Indeed, listeners may have preferred it when I did. > And it's a lot cheaper than rebuilding the neck. > H >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 3. http://turovsky.org/ 4. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de 5. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 6. mailto:l...@manassero.net 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)
Yes, it's as simple as that. n=12 o=13, p=14, .. so j is the only one that is not used. In those days there was no real difference between "i" and "j". Dowland uses p somewhere, Piccinini goes much higher (20th fret) and ages ago somebody found a piece that went even higher (I think it was 26) in an 18th century tablature. Rainer On 28.03.2019 11:11, Jurgen Frenz wrote: Hello there, my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images so a message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with the relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive. I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's FB page as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute. There is this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der Schlacht von Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as "p", "r" and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a', 'bb' and 'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And where are these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a screen shot of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to discuss the musical quality of that lengthy piece. [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z Any advice would be very welcome! Best wishes Jurgen -- "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen." JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi References 1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy theorbo neck
Dear all,
thank you for all your interesting suggestions!
I'll probably think again about it ;-)
All the best,
Luca
On dom, 24 mar 2019 05:10:08 +0100 Howard
Posner wrote
I'd have asked him the question I asked you.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 23, 2019, at 18:02, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Pat's opinion re the luthier's fault.
> RT
>
>> On 3/23/2019 7:01 PM, howard posner wrote:
>> What do you base that conclusion on?
>> Did the lute formerly have a lighter neck?
>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2019, at 3:16 PM, [2]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> One of my lutes is neck-heavy, and it definitely has been
detrimental to its sound.
>>> RT
>>>
>>>
>>> [3]http://turovsky.org
>>> Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
>>>
On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:48 PM, [4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de wrote:
My lute builder, Dieter Schossig, is actually a physicist, and he
also told me about this. It's about the energy that gets lost in the
neck, instead of reinforcing the sound.
Am 23.03.2019 22:29 schrieb John Mardinly:
> Some guitar makers have also believed that neck stiffness
improves the
> sound. Ramirez 1A guitars have a significant graphite-epoxy inset
along
> the neck to stiffen it, and that is said to be significant in a
neck
> that is only 66.7cm.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On Mar 23, 2019, at 2:22 PM, howard posner
<[1][5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
> wrote:
> On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Luca Manassero
<[2][6]l...@manassero.net>
> wrote:
> Iââ¬Ëm about to ask him to rebuild the long neck of my big
Hasenfuss
> theorbo, as the instrument has a fantastic voice, but Hasenfuss
> built a
> very heavy long neck, so it is really painful to homd during
> concerts.
> A lighter neck should solve the issue.
> All the best,
> Luca
> Consider that the heavy neck may be part of what makes the
fantastic
> voice. I've been told that a neck that's heavy, and therefore
does not
> vibrate, increases resonance because a vibrating neck has a
damping
> effect on the body of the instrument. I don't recall whether
Hendrik
> told me that, or it was volunteered by someone else, and I can't
vouch
> for its accuracy as a matter of acoustical science.
> But I can tell you that the heavy neck on my Hasenfuss theorbo
was
> never a problem because I never held the instrument while I
played it.
> I just used a strap, and ran a leather or fake-leather bootlace
from
> the bridge-end of the instrument and sat on it (the lace, NOT the
> instrument). I could take my hands off the theorbo completely.
> Indeed, listeners may have preferred it when I did.
> And it's a lot cheaper than rebuilding the neck.
> H
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
3. http://turovsky.org/
4. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
5. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
6. mailto:l...@manassero.net
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] fret positions above the 12th fret (re-re)
Hello there, my apologies, I forgot that the list bot doesn't handle images so a message I sent earlier was unreadable. So here I go again, with the relevant image of the tabulature linked to google drive. I didn't find an answer online or on the British Lute Society's FB page as to how positions above the octave are identified on a lute. There is this curious section in Mercure d'Orléan's "Auff der Schlacht von Padua" in Fuhrmann's Testudio p.188 where he notates notes as "p", "r" and "t". As I don't want to trust my assumption that these would correspond to finger positions 14,15 and 17 or the notes 'a', 'bb' and 'c' assuming a lute in g I am asking here for the facts. And where are these finger positions or 'fret names' codified? I attach a screen shot of the last two lines of that page. Oh and I don't want to discuss the musical quality of that lengthy piece. [1]https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z Any advice would be very welcome! Best wishes Jurgen -- "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen." JalÃl ad-Dën Muhammad Rumi References 1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UFZSHsdgjwXBpMlci5oO-rzriDIpBA9Z To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
