[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Twelve Course Lutes
Of course, I assume everyone knows by A, I meant 392! ;) Cheers! James On 17 May 2014 20:01, James Jackson [1]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com wrote: A A Hi there, A A I currently hire a 12c lute, from the UK Lute Society, the description A A on their website: no. 44: 12 course double-headed lute by David van A A Edwards summer school (2010), 673, 720, 780, 850, 938 mm, currently in A A French flat tuning but can be retuned to baroque D minor at A92 (i.e. C A A minor at modern pitch), grade A A A I currently have it in D minor at A92. You can go see it by going A A toA [1][2]http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/hire-lutes and scrolling down A A to lute number 44. A A It's great at playing the Scottish D minor repertoire of the Balcarres A A MS, sounds great on early French baroque lute music, and because it has A A a 12th course, opens up almost all of S.L. Weiss, et al, omitting the A A 13th and playing the 6th instead. A A I really enjoy my foster 12 course very much in D minor tuning. A A I hope that is of help, A A Kind regards, A A James A A On 17 May 2014 18:09, BENJAMIN NARVEY [2][3]luthi...@gmail.com wrote: A A A A A A Dear All, A A A A A A Does anybody on this list have any experience with 12c lutes? I A A A am A A A A A A considering getting one if I can get the funds together and I A A A would be A A A A A A grateful for any counsel drawn from actual experience. I have A A A never A A A A A A even laid finger to fret on one of these lutes before, so it is A A A a bit A A A A A A of a leap of faith. That said, there is clearly so much music A A A that A A A A A A could be played in either vieux ton or nouveau ton on this A A A lute, A A A A A A and I think it is the ultimate historical continuo beast for so A A A much A A A A A A 17c repertoire, in particular English music (Purcell, Lawes, A A A etc.) A A A A A A Also: string lengths. I know they can be very small (around A A A 55cm) to A A A A A A very big (perhaps 76cm or so). Any suggestions? I am kind of A A A torn A A A A A A between having perhaps a smaller solo instrument and a larger A A A one that A A A A A A I could use for accompaniment. A A A A A A Any thoughts? A A A A A A Best wishes, A A A A A A Benjamin A A A A A A -- A A A A A A [1][3][4]www.luthiste.com A A A A A A t [4][5]+33 (0) 1 44 27 03 44 A A A A A A p/m [5][6]+33 (0) 6 71 79 98 98 A A A A A A -- A A A References A A A A A A 1. [6][7]http://www.luthiste.com/ A A A To get on or off this list see list information at A A A [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html A A -- References A A 1. [9]http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/hire-lutes A A 2. mailto:[10]luthi...@gmail.com A A 3. [11]http://www.luthiste.com/ A A 4. tel:%2B33%20%280%29%201%2044%2027%2003%2044 A A 5. tel:%2B33%20%280%29%206%2071%2079%2098%2098 A A 6. [12]http://www.luthiste.com/ A A 7. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:weirdgeor...@googlemail.com 2. http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/hire-lutes 3. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.luthiste.com/ 5. tel:%2B33%20%280%29%201%2044%2027%2003%2044 6. tel:%2B33%20%280%29%206%2071%2079%2098%2098 7. http://www.luthiste.com/ 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/hire-lutes 10. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com 11. http://www.luthiste.com/ 12. http://www.luthiste.com/ 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Tablature
Hi all, Can anyone point me in the direction of the tablature forA Tombeau De Mouton by De Visee for baroque lute? I would be most grateful :) Many thanks, James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tablature
Thanks for that :) It was under my nose the whole time - I'd looked through my copy of the Vaudry MS, but I missed it completely. I guess it's easy to do with the Vaudry MS with it having so many pieces. Also, I assumed it was in D minor, not E minor, so was concentrating on the wrong section! Thanks again, James On 29 April 2014 19:24, Markus Lutz [1]mar...@gmlutz.de wrote: Hello friends, you could also search for Tomb in title and Vis in composer: [2]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msstitle=Tombcomp=Vis Then you only have 5 pieces. The search always is case sensitive, so you will have different results with tomb and Tomb, but you could also search for ombeau. All of the Fields look for one phrase, so you cannot combine two words at the moment (I could change that, maybe later ..). Signature always begins at the beginning of the signature, so you can look for the manuscripts in one country, f.i. F- or CZ-, or in a library or manuscript. Sometimes it is necessary to try out different things to have the wanted result, but I think it is possible to find nearly everything very quickly, if you know what to do. Best regards Markus Am 29.04.2014 20:07, schrieb Bernd Haegemann: Chers amis, if you set the filter like this [3]http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?langTHuid=1exFilter=1type=mss; st=0title=Moutonkey=msnam=comp=Vis%E9e you find that the piece is in the Saizenay ms. on page 76. It's in e minor! Only 236 pieces in the repertoire are in e-minor. Then we go to this nice website: [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/links/Digital-Facsimiles.html where we find to our joy and excitement that the library in Besancon has made the effort to digititatilizizize the ms: [5]http://culture.besancon.fr/ark:/48565/a011284026247S0XA9H/1/1 And there we go! B On 29.04.2014 19:38, James Jackson wrote: A A Hi all, A A Can anyone point me in the direction of the tablature forA Tombeau De A A Mouton by De Visee for baroque lute? I would be most grateful :) A A Many thanks, A A James A A -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz SchulstraAe 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel A [7]0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax A [8]0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [9]mar...@gmlutz.de -- References 1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 2. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1type=msstitle=Tombcomp=Vis 3. http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?lang%C3%9Euid=1exFilter=1type=mssst=0title=Moutonkey=msnam=comp=Vis%E9e 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/links/Digital-Facsimiles.html 5. http://culture.besancon.fr/ark:/48565/a011284026247S0XA9H/1/1 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. tel:0%2075%2082%20%2F%2092%2062%2089 8. tel:0%2075%2082%20%2F%2092%2062%2090 9. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 77cm?
Hi, I think you'll find that the ornamentations in the early French and Scottish repertoire difficult to play with a lute at 77cm, but a 13 course isn't the ideal instrument for that repertoire anyway. I know someone with a 76cm baroque lute, he doesn't have large hands and has no problem with the music of Weiss and Bach. According to my string calculations, at 77cm, at 415hz, tuning the top course to 43 newtons, the top course would be 0.44 in nylon or 0.40 in gut, which is perfectly doable. But, even if using gut on the rest of the instrument, I think most people would highly recommend that you use either nylon or nylgut for the top course with it being so thin, gut will only last a week or two before breaking. (Although the problem of gut first courses breaking often isn't confined to longer lutes) I hope that's of some help, Best wishes, James. On 6 April 2014 19:11, [1]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: All: I am considering a b-lute with a 77cm string length (Edlinger model). Two questions: Is this length playable for most baroque literature? Can it be tuned to minor (aA5) or will it have to be tuned lower? Thanks-trj -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: 6c lutes - Fingerboard layout
I think, personally, I prefer the look of the fingerboard extending on top of the neck block, as it's a little different visually and makes for a change. (Go toA [1]http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/index.htm and scroll down to or search the page forA 6-course Renaissance lute after Laux Maler, made for Craig Hartley)A I think this is more common on the earlier 6 course lutes. I can't think of any cons other than perhaps it may stiffen the soundboard a tiny bit perhaps? The way I believe Gerle did it was he simply had the fingerboard terminate at the neck block with no tongue of soundboard extending up the fingerboard, from what I recall. I'm pretty sure the triangle ears extending down the sides of the tongue of soundboard simply wasn't the style at the time, but don't quote me on that, I could be wrong. James. On 17 January 2014 19:56, William Samson [2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: A A Dear Collective Wisdom, A A There appear to be two main styles of fingerboard on 6c lutes. A In one A A case the soundboard continues a little way up the neck and the A A fingerboard meets it in a straight line join, usually with no stings. A A In the other case the fingerboard extends a little way over the A A neck/body join and the soundboard starts where it leaves off, somewhere A A over the neck block. A A I would be interested to hear views on the pros and cons of each layout A A as well as any other ones you know about. A A Waiting with anticipation, A A Bill A A -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/index.htm 2. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The golden rose
I know this one is a few months old - but personally I love gold gilded roses. I plan have a gold gilded rose on my current build. I have seen a painting containing a lute with a gold gilded somewhere, I just can't remember where or when. I have also seen a modern maker do it once too and have read references to them, again can't recall exactly when or where. To sum up, I've not doubt it was a genuine practise at some point in time. On 20 June 2013 15:45, Bernhard Fischer [1]fischer...@aon.at wrote: Dear Luca, I have no knowledge of a lute with a golden rose, BUT I have knowledge of two lutes with heraldic double-head eagle in the rose. Any interest in this? Bernhard -Urspruengliche Nachricht- Von: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Luca Manassero Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Juni 2013 16:12 An: [4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] The golden rose Dear list, a few years ago I saw pictures of a lute built by a well known british lutemaker and showing a really beautiful golden rose. Baroque lutenists certainly know about the Allemande of Ennemond Gaultier (Vieux Gaultier) La roze d'or also known as The loss of the golden rose lute. My question is: have you any news (or iconographc evidence) of (original) lutes with a golden rose? Thank you in advance, Luca To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:fischer...@aon.at 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 3rd finger in french baroque?
I am aware of a few examples from the Saizenay manuscript, where third finger marks are clearly indicated, particularly where large mounts of strumming are involved. I.e. La Cascade (Gaultier/Launay). However, don't forget the Saizenay MS was compiled towards the end of the golden age of French baroque, when it was obvious it was coming to an end. But, I don't see any reason why those marks would be included in the MS if they weren't on the original. James On 24 February 2013 20:10, [1]theoj89...@aol.com wrote: It is my understanding that the french baroque lute players/composers did not use the third finger of the right hand to sound any strings, limiting only to thumb, first and second fingers, but clearly the third finger was widely used in earlier renaissance music, and again in later baroque lute music. Does anyone know what prompted this change in technique (or am I wrong in my statement). From what I've read, it seems that the french school was well enmeshed with a very philosophical approach to the instrument and to music. I was wondering if there was a philosophical reason perhaps to avoid using the third finger? -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Soundboard bar supports
Hi Bill, I know of at least one very well known and respectable luthier who does indeed glue the blocks on and doesn't see the sense in them not being glued. My hire lute was recently under repair for two loose bars, while it was under repair, the luthier, whom the Lute Society trusted with the repair, as well as re-gluing the bars, he glued the blocks too and blamed the unglued blocks as the likely cause of the failing of the bars. When I got the lute back, I would swear it sounded better than it did before the failure of the bars. Although a little adjustment was done to the action while it was under repair, but I don't know how much that would affect the sound. My point being, gluing the blocks didn't have an adverse effect of the sound. I'm convinced it's the best way to go and I'm going to take a page out of his book and glue mine when I get to that stage. James. On 6 February 2013 13:01, William Samson [1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Dear Collective Wisdom. I have never understood why luthiers have never got around to gluing little blocks to the inside of the edge ribs in way of the ends of the bars. Throughout history one of the commonest faults in a lute has been the ungluing of a bar end causing the soundboard to sag and creating buzzes. Thomas Mace has a lot to say about this along with full instructions to the owner on how to fix the problem themselves if they don't live near a luthier. It seems to me that a simple preventative measure would be to glue little blocks or props inside the edge ribs for the ends of the bars to rest on. I've noticed that some early guitars have such props, so why not lutes? Would the addition of blocks/props kill the sound of the instrument? I very much doubt it. Any ideas why such an obvious remedy to a common problem was ignored by the old ones? Built-in obsolescence maybe ;) ? I look forward to reading your hypotheses. Kind regards, Bill Samson -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute
Hi Paul, I'll be honest, a scale of 65cm would be much more suited for a pitch of F at AD0 - I think you'll find with a lute that is a little larger, like this one, will sound so much better at that pitch. The whole instrument will resonate better if you string it at the pitch it was designed for, as I highly doubt the original instrument was ever tuned to the equivalent of G at AD0, more likely the instrument was at F at modern pitch. James On 1 January 2013 20:02, Paul Daverman [1]daverman.p...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I am building a 10 cs. lute per Robert Lundberg's plans (10-cs Renaissance Lute, Dieffopruchar 1612). I am to the point where I have begun looking at strings so that I have an idea of diameters, etc. As this is my first lute build, I am looking at Nylgut and am looking to tune to AD0. One of the suppliers to which I have inquired has said that in A440 tuning, they have no strings at 65cm length that can take the tension for the chanderelle (and that no gut could either.) He said that the instrument was probably meant for A92 and while he could supply strings in either tuning, I'd have to look elsewhere for a string for the chanderelle if I chose A440. I am wondering if any of you can talk to this topic. Would I be over stressing the lute if I tune to the modern tuning of A440? Would A392 have been the intended tuning or maybe A415? What other repercussions of tuning one way vs. another should I know about? My music theory is a bit poor - is the difference between going from A440 tuning to A392 really any different that transposing down a (??) major second? Any word to help get all this straight in my mind would be appreciated. While I understand that pitch is all relative, I'm having a difficult time getting my arms around the practical understanding of what I should do for stringing. Thanks. Paul -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:daverman.p...@sbcglobal.net 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute
Hi Paul, No need to be embarrassed. We all started not playing the lute remember! Never be afraid to ask questions here, you'll find everyone here more than happy to answer your questions, no matter whatever they are. You're correct in your assumption, the renaissance lute comes in different pitches. The tuning intervals remain the same, the whole instrument is at a different pitch. When we refer to a lute in a certain pitch, say G, we're referring to the first course. G would be alto, F and E are considered tenor lutes, all the way down to huge bass lutes of D and C, then up A, B, and C treble and descant lutes. So, when we refer to a tenor lute in F, the whole instrument is tuned a tone lower than an alto lute in G. There were many duet and trio pieces written for lutes tuned in different pitches. Also, you are completely correct that a lute tuned in G at 392 would be the same as a lute tuned to F at 440, within one or two cents. So in a nutshell you were on the right track, if you tune your lute to F you start the progression of the intervals from there. Personally, if it were me, I would definitely pitch your at F with a scale of 65cm. I actually prefer the sound of a tenor lute in F for solo work, the larger size of the instrument gives a richer sound. Some prefer the bright sound of a lute in A for solo work (A lute in A would have a scale of about 57cm), it's all down to preferences really. So your lute being 65cm, your choices are, in modern 440 pitch, F, F#, or G, but as mentioned before, going for G will need thin strings at high tension. Hope that is of some help to you and feel free to ask away if you have any other questions! James On Jan 3, 2013 1:58 AM, Paul Daverman [1]daverman.p...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Hi James, OkayI'm very embarrassed here and am getting very confused. I don't play the lute (yet) and I'm feeling like I'm missing something major here! (For the record, I play the mandolin some.) What do you actually mean by pitch of F or pitch of G? Are lutes not chromatic? Is that what I've been missing all this time? Are they diatonic like my penny-whistle in D, etc? Or when you say pitch of F or in G is it merely meant that the chanderelle (highest note) is F or G and the starting place for the progression of courses? If the latter, I should think that in G in A392 would be identical to F in A440 since 392 hz is a whole step away from 440hz. Is that true? What would the F (at A440) look like? Just one whole note down on each course from the G tuning I would think? Again, my apologies for my great lack of understanding. And thank-you for your patience with me. (I didn't reply to the whole forum here because, frankly, I'm feeling a bit stupid and didn't really need that to be what people found if they googled my name.) Thanks so much! Paul From: James Jackson [mailto:[2]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:49 PM To: Paul Daverman Cc: [3]lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [LUTE-BUILDER] Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute Hi Paul, I'll be honest, a scale of 65cm would be much more suited for a pitch of F at AD0 - I think you'll find with a lute that is a little larger, like this one, will sound so much better at that pitch. The whole instrument will resonate better if you string it at the pitch it was designed for, as I highly doubt the original instrument was ever tuned to the equivalent of G at AD0, more likely the instrument was at F at modern pitch. James On 1 January 2013 20:02, Paul Daverman [4]daverman.p...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I am building a 10 cs. lute per Robert Lundberg's plans (10-cs Renaissance Lute, Dieffopruchar 1612). I am to the point where I have begun looking at strings so that I have an idea of diameters, etc. As this is my first lute build, I am looking at Nylgut and am looking to tune to AD0. One of the suppliers to which I have inquired has said that in A440 tuning, they have no strings at 65cm length that can take the tension for the chanderelle (and that no gut could either.) He said that the instrument was probably meant for A92 and while he could supply strings in either tuning, I'd have to look elsewhere for a string for the chanderelle if I chose A440. I am wondering if any of you can talk to this topic. Would I be over stressing the lute if I tune to the modern tuning of A440? Would A392 have been the intended tuning or maybe A415? What other repercussions of tuning one way vs. another should I know about? My music theory is a bit poor - is the difference between going from A440 tuning to A392 really any different that transposing down
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute
My huge apologies to Paul and everyone else - I really embarrassed myself there - Paul emailed me personally and my last reply to Paul was intended to be emailed directly and my stupid email set up automatically CC'ed it to everyone on the list. So, to Paul, I really do apologise and everyone else too. Made a little bit of a fool of myself there. James. On 3 January 2013 02:51, James Jackson [1]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com wrote: From: James Jackson [mailto:[2]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:49 PM To: Paul Daverman Cc: [3]lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [LUTE-BUILDER] Pitch center on a 10 cs. lute Hi Paul, I'll be honest, a scale of 65cm would be much more suited for a pitch of F at AD0 - I think you'll find with a lute that is a little larger, like this one, will sound so much better at that pitch. The whole instrument will resonate better if you string it at the pitch it was designed for, as I highly doubt the original instrument was ever tuned to the equivalent of G at AD0, more likely the instrument was at F at modern pitch. James On 1 January 2013 20:02, Paul Daverman [4]daverman.p...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I am building a 10 cs. lute per Robert Lundberg's plans (10-cs Renaissance Lute, Dieffopruchar 1612). I am to the point where I have begun looking at strings so that I have an idea of diameters, etc. As this is my first lute build, I am looking at Nylgut and am looking to tune to AD0. One of the suppliers to which I have inquired has said that in A440 tuning, they have no strings at 65cm length that can take the tension for the chanderelle (and that no gut could either.) He said that the instrument was probably meant for A92 and while he could supply strings in either tuning, I'd have to look elsewhere for a string for the chanderelle if I chose A440. I am wondering if any of you can talk to this topic. Would I be over stressing the lute if I tune to the modern tuning of A440? Would A392 have been the intended tuning or maybe A415? What other repercussions of tuning one way vs. another should I know about? My music theory is a bit poor - is the difference between going from A440 tuning to A392 really any different that transposing down a (??) major second? Any word to help get all this straight in my mind would be appreciated. While I understand that pitch is all relative, I'm having a difficult time getting my arms around the practical understanding of what I should do for stringing. Thanks. Paul -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:weirdgeor...@googlemail.com 2. mailto:weirdgeor...@googlemail.com 3. mailto:lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:daverman.p...@sbcglobal.net 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Sonata in C Major by Conradi
Hi all, Does anybody know where I can find the tablature for Conradi's famous Sonata in C major? I'm having trouble locating it and I'd really like to learn it. Cheers! James. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Strumming strokes in French baroque
Hi, I'm just wondering, what type of strumming strokes are supposed to be used in early French baroque, in particular E. Gaultier, La Cascade (Saizenay MS version). I'm really trying to learn the piece and I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to play the strummed strokes. I know that a dot in front or behind all the letters means it's a strummed stroke, but that's about all I understand. I've been playing dots in front as upwards (treble down towards bass) and dots behind as a downward stroke (bass toward treble), with the back of my finger. Both strokes I've been playing with my middle finger and index simultaneously. The problem is, I'm having trouble getting a good tone with these strummed strokes. Can anybody shed any light on if I have this right, or any suggestions on how to play these stroke better? Best wishes, James. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Zingy strings
Actually the blu-tac while unsightly, in a blind comparison sounds an awful lot like loaded gut! You've got to get just the right amount on, as to not deaden the string too much. But while I was visiting a luthier recently, we compared blu-tack on Kurschner wound on my lute, to his with loaded gut and the sound, if you closed your eyes, was amazingly similar! I play with blu-tac all time. It gives a great thud like gut. On 23 May 2012 15:31, William Samson [1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi, Just wondering if anybody had found a good way to take the worst of the boom and everlasting sustain out of overwound basses? Loaded gut is 'way beyond my budget, so anything that would make, say, Kuerschner or Pyramid basses a bit tamer would be helpful. I have heard about people who put a blob of Blu-tack on each string where it emerges from the bridge, but that sounds messy and unsightly. Hopefully there's a less cringe-making solution. Thanks! Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Englemann Spruce
Thanks for your advice, I've decided to go for Englemann. I'm going for grade 7 (Second down from highest on their grade) which the timber supplier describes as Near perfection - very slow growth, the widest growth ring approximately 2mm within the template area. Very limited acceptance of colour variation, otherwise same as grade 8. Best possible quartering and the minimum possible run-out (short grain). The wood will be stiff with a high pitched tap tone. So hopefully, I should be in for a good soundboard!! James. On 16 May 2012 13:35, Louis Aull [1]aul...@comcast.net wrote: James, The high grade Englemann I have used produces a very warm full sound. It is also by far the best looking wood. It has to be about 20% thicker than Alpine for the same strength. I have not worked with Alpine because the few pieces I have purchased (top grade) were of poor quality by comparison. I like to use Sitka spruce on ren lutes for it's brightness. Now some words of caution: the soft part of the wood is very soft and will pull out with tape. Chip carving on Englemann is extremely difficult due to that softness. It would rather tear than cut. Other rosette carving produces a lot of fuzz and is difficult. I don't bother with the chip carving and focus on perfecting the rosette. The only tape I have found that will not pull the soft wood out is drafting tape, used and removed with great caution. I usually leave a few tenths of mm around the edges for the final sanding to get the divots in the soft wood flat again. It soaks up dirt, stain, and varnish like a sponge so plan on being more cleanly. That same sponge effect makes it glue better. Anyone who plays one of my Englemann lutes wears a pinky protector or does not touch the top. (Including Hoppy Smith) Is it worth it? To me, no doubt. After my first Englemann top, I wouldn't play the others. I have since replaced all the other tops. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:aul...@comcast.net 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Englemann Spruce
Shouldn't red spruce be synonymous with red cedar? I've heard of cedar topped lutes - from what I understand (And I really don't understand much yet!), cedar can work well on smaller lutes, A, B, C and D ren lutes. Unless I'm getting this wrong and red spruce IS different? My Englemann soundboard arrived. It's really an excellent piece of timber. No run out, or short grain, amazing tap tone, feels lovely and dry crispy under thumb, and the grain is VERY fine in the area where the rose is to be cut, which is a plus! It's actually the nicest soundboard I've bought yet...I've bought several middle grade Alpine spruce boards, non of them have the tap tone or the lack of short grain this one has. I'm very happy! On 17 May 2012 22:57, Tim@Buckeye [1]tam...@buckeye-express.com wrote: James, To further confuse the issue, Northern Tonewoods offers Red Spruce soundboards. [2]http://www.hvgb.net/~tonewood/acousticguitar.htm I'm in the middle of building an A lute with one of their soundboards. Tap tone is very clear and bright. I don't know how the lute will sound, but it should be pretty bright. Tim Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2012, at 8:06 AM, James Jackson [3]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com wrote: Thanks for your advice, I've decided to go for Englemann. I'm going for grade 7 (Second down from highest on their grade) which the timber supplier describes as Near perfection - very slow growth, the widest growth ring approximately 2mm within the template area. Very limited acceptance of colour variation, otherwise same as grade 8. Best possible quartering and the minimum possible run-out (short grain). The wood will be stiff with a high pitched tap tone. So hopefully, I should be in for a good soundboard!! James. On 16 May 2012 13:35, Louis Aull [1][4]aul...@comcast.net wrote: James, The high grade Englemann I have used produces a very warm full sound. It is also by far the best looking wood. It has to be about 20% thicker than Alpine for the same strength. I have not worked with Alpine because the few pieces I have purchased (top grade) were of poor quality by comparison. I like to use Sitka spruce on ren lutes for it's brightness. Now some words of caution: the soft part of the wood is very soft and will pull out with tape. Chip carving on Englemann is extremely difficult due to that softness. It would rather tear than cut. Other rosette carving produces a lot of fuzz and is difficult. I don't bother with the chip carving and focus on perfecting the rosette. The only tape I have found that will not pull the soft wood out is drafting tape, used and removed with great caution. I usually leave a few tenths of mm around the edges for the final sanding to get the divots in the soft wood flat again. It soaks up dirt, stain, and varnish like a sponge so plan on being more cleanly. That same sponge effect makes it glue better. Anyone who plays one of my Englemann lutes wears a pinky protector or does not touch the top. (Including Hoppy Smith) Is it worth it? To me, no doubt. After my first Englemann top, I wouldn't play the others. I have since replaced all the other tops. Louis Aull -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[6]aul...@comcast.net 2. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:tam...@buckeye-express.com 2. http://www.hvgb.net/~tonewood/acousticguitar.htm 3. mailto:weirdgeor...@googlemail.com 4. mailto:aul...@comcast.net 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. mailto:aul...@comcast.net 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] [LUTE BUILDER] Engelmann spruce
Hi guys, I was just interested in your experiences with Engelmann spruce for baroque lutes? I'm currently building a 13c, J.C. Hoffman (bass rider) and I'm just about to order the soundboard, but I can't make my mind up to go with Alpine or Engelmann for the soundboard. I've heard some makers swear by Engelmann, saying it gives a warmer richer sound. It's also cheaper so I can afford a higher grade piece of timber if I go with Engelmann, Other makers have told me, never go with anything other than Alpine. Opinions would be welcome!! Thanks in advance, James. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Confession
I love beech! I made a beech pegbox - it's perfect to withstand the twisting and side to side motions, particularly on a bass or treble rider. I think beech would be fantastic for a bowl too, sound should have a nice quick attack with some warmth too. As for pearwood - Believe it or not, I have an acoustic guitar with pear back and sides. On 14 May 2012 14:55, Alexandros Tzimeros [1]sarab...@otenet.gr wrote: So, it's not so out of the question as I thought. I never see beech wood listed among the woods for lute bowls and I always wondered why. I have an Oud made of beech wood and the sound is beautiful. - Original Message - From: Mark Day [2]lautenmac...@gmail.com To: Yaron Naor [3]ibi...@gmail.com Cc: Alexandros Tzimeros [4]sarab...@otenet.gr; [5]lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:41 PM Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: Confession I just bought some beech for making pegboxes from a local sawyer and I have to say I also love it. I bet it would perform like maple but I think it is nicer to work with. The only problem is availability. It isn't on the US lumber market anymore since it was pretty well logged out a century ago, but fortunately trees still exist and are occasionally logged by small operations. If it is available I would use it. No confession necessary! On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Yaron Naor [1][6]ibi...@gmail.com wrote: Congatulations! Maybe you will discover that the beech wood is better for bowl making and you will get a better sound... Take care Yaron Naor On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Alexandros Tzimeros [1][2][7]sarab...@otenet.gr wrote: A Hi dear all, A After discussing about pear wood in lute making, I'd like to confess A something... A - I love beech wood and I'm seriously thinking to use it for a bowl. A Phew! I said it. A Any comments please? A -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2][3][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- [Email%20Footer%20alone.jpg] [3]* *(TM) *` *(TM) *!A *(TM) * * o *Y * * * o *A A 054-7655797 *` * *(TM) *(TM) *-a * *oe *(TM) * *' *(TM) * *, *oe *(TM) *z * o * *` * *(TM) *(TM) * * o *-a *(TM) *S: * o * *(TM) * [4]My Musical Instrument Portfolio -- References 1. mailto:[4][9]sarab...@otenet.gr 2. [5][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. [6][11]http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn 4. [7][12]http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn -- Mark Day [8][13]http://neowalla.smugmug.com/ -- References 1. mailto:[14]ibi...@gmail.com 2. mailto:[15]sarab...@otenet.gr 3. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. mailto:[17]sarab...@otenet.gr 5. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. [19]http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn 7. [20]http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn 8. [21]http://neowalla.smugmug.com/ -- References 1. mailto:sarab...@otenet.gr 2. mailto:lautenmac...@gmail.com 3. mailto:ibi...@gmail.com 4. mailto:sarab...@otenet.gr 5. mailto:lute-buil...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:ibi...@gmail.com 7. mailto:sarab...@otenet.gr 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. mailto:sarab...@otenet.gr 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn 12. http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn 13. http://neowalla.smugmug.com/ 14. mailto:ibi...@gmail.com 15. mailto:sarab...@otenet.gr 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 17. mailto:sarab...@otenet.gr 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 19. http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn 20. http://picasaweb.google.com/ibisyn 21. http://neowalla.smugmug.com/
