[LUTE] Re: Siena Lute Book
Yes, Goeran Crona did it IIRC. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: mathias.roe...@t-online.de Betreff: Re: Siena Lute Book Datum: 21.06.2018, 22:12 Uhr An: Leonard Williams Yes. Goeran Crona did it IIRC. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [2]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Leonard Williams Betreff: [LUTE] Siena Lute Book Datum: 21.06.2018, 21:58 Uhr An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Is there a published French tab version of the Siena book available? Regards, Leonard Williams -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer 2. https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Latest book in viel ton outside Italy
I seem to remember that a 14c lute is required in Reusner's Lustgarten. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Andreas Schlegel Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Latest book in viel ton outside Italy Datum: 09.04.2018, 20:32 Uhr An: Rainer Cc: lute list Esajas Reusner the older: Musicalischer Lust-Garten / das ist: Herren D. Martini Lutheri, Wie auch anderer Gottseliger (der Reinen Augspurgischen Confession zugethaner) Männer / Geistliche Kirchen- und HauÃ-Lieder: Auff Lauten Tabulatur gesetzt, Breslau (Georg Baumann) 1645 for 11-course lute in vieil ton. The 11-course lute in vieil tone seems to be very common in this time. How it looks like is a very god questio. See my article The Lute in the Dutch Golden Age What we know and what we play today, in: The Lute in the Netherlands in the Seventeenth Century: Pro- ceedings of the International Lute Symposium Utrecht, 30 August 2013, ed. by Jan W.J. Burgers, Tim Crawford and Matthew Spring, Cambridge Scholars Publishing 2016, ISBN 978-1-4438-9075-5, p. 73-101. Andreas > Am 09.04.2018 um 16:44 schrieb Rainer <[2]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>: > > Dear lute netters, > > I have often wondered what the latest book in vieil ton published outside Italy is. > > As a starting point I offer: > > > Louys de Moy, LE Petit Boucquet, â¦, 1631 > > > Rainer > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken Festnetz +41 (0)62 771 47 07 Mobile +41 (0)78 646 87 63 [4]lute.cor...@sunrise.ch -- References 1. https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer 2. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch
[LUTE] Re: Some questions
Funds may be the pivotal point. For my first ten years with the lute I used to play just anything on my one and only 8c lute that Larry Brown had built for Budget Instruments Ltd. By anything I mean anything (Dowland, Bach, Schubert, Wandervogel lieder, Clapton). When funds started to come in, I afforded a swan neck. Then I discovered that an 11 was needed because swan necks aren't best for French Baroque. Then there was that short era of transitional tunings, requiring a 12c double neck. Finally I realised that a liuto attiorbato with single basses is not really the thing for Italian arciliuto music which demands octave strings down to the 14th course. I omit the serious reasoning for the chitarone and the angélique. I could have done almost all of that music on my old 8c lute, probably, which still is in good shape. Yet funds were available, and so was my curiosity for new shores to explore. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Tristan von Neumann Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions Datum: 17.03.2018, 8:16 Uhr An: lutelist Net Some people don't have the funds to "collect lutes" :) I'm quite happy with 7 courses - it's amazing how just one extra course extends the repertoire well into the 17th century, if you don't mind playing just the upper octaves. Am 17.03.2018 um 02:52 schrieb spiffys84121: > I will play any music on lutes, if it works for that lute. I believe in > using the right tool for the job-- unlike guitarists and pianists who > endeavor to build the whole house with just a hammer. > > My question-- do most lute players only specialize in one repertoire? I > play any lute music from almost the entire history of the lute-- except > medieval. Of course this requires multiple lutes, which I'm happy to > collect and play. I go through phases, like sometimes all I want to do > is play six course music; then all of a sudden baroque lute is all I > care about in life. Right now I'm obsessed with the liuto attiorbato > which I think is the most versatile of all lutes. If for some reason I > had to have only one lute, it would be an attiorbato. One can play > hundreds of years worth of music on it(in a pinch) I'm working on my > version of 'Georga on my Mind' at present. My attiorbatos have a range > of 5 octaves. > > Sterling > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > Original message > From: Leonard Williams <[2]arc...@verizon.net> > Date: 3/16/18 3:00 PM (GMT-07:00) > To: [3]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions > > I, myself, was attracted to the lute, via recorders and other > early > instruments, because I like playing renaissance music. What better > way > to enjoy it than on the instruments for which it was written? If I > were an instructor, I would probably be more inclined to teach > guitarists to read lute-tabbed recercari than to play later music on > the lute. > Leonard > -Original Message- > From: Mathias.Roesel <[4]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> > To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Fri, Mar 16, 2018 2:28 pm > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions > Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they > like best. > Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this > tiny > community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for > the > lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing > list > community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're > fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to > add > that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions > about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I > for > one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes. > Mathias > __ > Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App > --- Original-Nachricht --- > Von: Wayne > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions > Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr > An: lute net > One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we > all, > or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of > our > repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our > romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele
[LUTE] Re: Some questions
Everybody is free to do with their lutes, or should be so, what they like best. Gilbert's initial observation was, though, that some 90% of this tiny community don't seem to be interested in newly composed music for the lute. And I take it that he wasn't referring to the lute mailing list community exclusively, but to lute loving folks in general. They're fully entitled, aren't they, to not be interested. And I hasten to add that I myself refuse to get involved in lute religious discussions about whether or not lutes should be taken to play modern music. I for one prefer to pick up the guitar for such purposes. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Wayne Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Some questions Datum: 16.03.2018, 18:01 Uhr An: lute net One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all, or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth in some cases. If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth. So maybe we are overlooking contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a different instrument to play something modern. Especially when we need to be as loud as everyone else. Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute? Wayne > Begin forwarded message: > > From: WALSH STUART <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions > Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT > > If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely odder to only play a lute and only ever to play music that was composed centuries ago. > > Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person - who would only, ever, play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless choice of a free being? > > There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a case of self-harm. > -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Gilded Roses
When this topic was up on the list the last time, ten lutes with gilded roses were said to survive, all of the first half of the 17th century. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Arthur Ness Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Gilded Roses Datum: 29.01.2018, 16:10 Uhr An: dail...@club-internet.fr, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu There are 23 copies available from [2]abebooks.com Search on Rueger (author) and Decoration (title). Just two words will get you a complete list. The prices range from $1.09 (yes, nine cents plus one dollar!) to $20+. [3]abebooks.com is an international network of antiquarian (second hand) book dealers. I once got a book (mint condition: Simpson, British Broadside Ballads) sent from Australian to Boston, Mass. So if possible select a dealer close to your home to save on postage. Some offer free postage. Arthur Ness arthurjness@[4]verizon.net -Original Message- From: Matthew Daillie ; To: LutList ; Sent: Mon, Jan 29, 2018 9:23 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Gilded Roses You could see if there is anything in this book devoted to the decoration of historical instruments (translated from German): Musical Instruments and Their decoration. Historical Gems of European Culture by Christoph Rueger Alexander Batov has dedicated a webpage to late 16th century and early 17th century vihuela roses which makes interesting reading. Best, Matthew On 29/01/2018 14:43, spiffys84121 wrote: Hi all-- so what info do we have about gilded roses on lutes? I think the lute I'm building now needs her rose gilded. Thanks Sterling Price -- References Visible links Hidden links: 2. [1][7]https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_imag e_1 ?smid%EF%BF%BDUTCNUT25T3ZB&psc=1 3. [2][8]https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_imag e_1 ?smid%EF%BF%BDUTCNUT25T3ZB&psc=1 To get on or off this list see list information at [3][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [10]https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_image_ 1?smid���UTCNUT25T3ZB&psc=1 2. [11]https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_image_ 1?smid���UTCNUT25T3ZB&psc=1 3. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://abebooks.com/ 3. http://abebooks.com/ 4. http://verizon.net/ 5. http://club-internet.fr>/ 6. http://cs.dartmouth.edu>/ 7. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1 8. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid 11. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005SSGQ4I/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Double first courses (chanterelles)
As I said, I do. Good experience.
Mathias
__
Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
--- Original-Nachricht ---
Von: spiffys84121
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double first courses (chanterelles)
Datum: 22.01.2018, 16:43 Uhr
An: fournier...@gmail.com, Antonio Corona
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Now if we could just get people to start playing double strung
theorboes and attiorbatos-- ya that would make me so happy.
Sterling Price
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Original message
From: Bruno Cognyl-Fournier ;
Date: 1/22/18 8:22 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Antonio Corona ;
Cc: Edward Martin ;, lute@[5]cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double first courses (chanterelles)
Interesting to note however that the ancestor of the european lute,
ie
the arabic Oud, has had double chanterelles all throughout
history...
in fact its the lowest string which sometimes is single.
Bruno
2018-01-22 3:29 GMT-05:00 Antonio Corona
<[1]abcorona@[6]cs.dartmouth.edu>;:
Dear Edward,
Despite what the pegs on the vihuelas suggest, I've found
plenty
of
evidence that it was strung with a single first. We need to
review our
ideas on the subject of vihuela stringing ...
Best wishes
Antonio
__
From: Edward Martin <[2]edvihuela12@[7]gmail.com>;
To: lute net <[3]lute@[8]cs.dartmouth.edu>;
Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2018, 14:56
Subject: [LUTE] Double first courses (chanterelles)
Dear Collective wisdom,
When did double first courses cease to exist on renaissance
lutes?
We
know from early on, and from the middle ages, they were
double
strung
on every course, including the treble. In terms of
iconographical
evidence, I looked at the Caravaggio "Lute Player", an the
subject
(he
or she) is playing a 6 course lute, double strung throughout,
including
the treble, and there are 6 pegs on the upper and lower side
of
the
peg
box. Caravaggio's birth- death dates are 1571�� ��1610.
So,
perhaps
his
subject had an old fashioned lute for the time, or perhaps
double-strung first courses lasted longer than we may think.
Vihuelas also her double strung in the first courses, at least
the
instruments show 12 pegs for the 6-course vihuela.
I tried to look up some information to answer my questions, but
I
could
not find any in the sources I used.
So, my questions are:
1. When did the double first courses stop, or go out of
vogue?
Was
it universal, or did some countries / nationalities stop the
practice
earlier or later than others.? Did Francesco use a double
first
course?
2. Why did the double chanterelle stop? We know that later,
lutes
only had pegs and pegboxes to accommodate a single treble.
3. What evidence is there to support the "when and why" of
this
practice?
4. If a double chanterelle was the norm for a great part of
the
renaissance, why is it that it is so infrequently that we see a
modern
player doing this practice?
Thanks in advance.
ed
--
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[LUTE] Re: Double first courses (chanterelles)
Ad 1. It didn't. At least, not in Italy. May I add that I play a copy of a Sellas liuto attiorbato with double first. And it's sheer joy as it tends t to kinda "sing". Ad 2. My guess is that players tended to prefer the single first because it strikes the ear when the first course is out of time in itself. Ad 4. Same guess as for #2. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Edward Martin Betreff: [LUTE] Double first courses (chanterelles) Datum: 21.01.2018, 21:54 Uhr An: lute net Dear Collective wisdom, When did double first courses cease to exist on renaissance lutes? We know from early on, and from the middle ages, they were double strung on every course, including the treble. In terms of iconographical evidence, I looked at the Caravaggio "Lute Player", an the subject (he or she) is playing a 6 course lute, double strung throughout, including the treble, and there are 6 pegs on the upper and lower side of the peg box. Caravaggio's birth- death dates are 1571��1610. So, perhaps his subject had an old fashioned lute for the time, or perhaps double-strung first courses lasted longer than we may think. Vihuelas also her double strung in the first courses, at least the instruments show 12 pegs for the 6-course vihuela. I tried to look up some information to answer my questions, but I could not find any in the sources I used. So, my questions are: 1. When did the double first courses stop, or go out of vogue? Was it universal, or did some countries / nationalities stop the practice earlier or later than others.? Did Francesco use a double first course? 2. Why did the double chanterelle stop? We know that later, lutes only had pegs and pegboxes to accommodate a single treble. 3. What evidence is there to support the "when and why" of this practice? 4. If a double chanterelle was the norm for a great part of the renaissance, why is it that it is so infrequently that we see a modern player doing this practice? Thanks in advance. ed -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vallet's quartets
I did it together with Jochen Domning, Wenzel Norzel and the late Klaus Schmidt. We played from facsimiles, and it may have been due to our own mistakes in playing that all of it sounded nice and correct. Not too many pieces and IMO each one worthwhile to be included. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Matthew Daillie Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Vallet's quartets Datum: 13.01.2018, 17:13 Uhr An: Lute net Anne Bailes edited the Tree publication of Vallet's quartets, making a series of corrections in the process. There are indeed quite a few mistakes and inconsistencies. The pieces are very enjoyable to play if one can find a suitable group of instruments (and lutenists!). There have been several CDs of music by Vallet. My reference is the recording by Eugène Ferré (Auvidis Astrée, 1997) which includes the quartets (for which he is joined by Pascal Monteilhet, Jérôme Blum and Brian Feehan). Best, Matthew On 13/01/2018 16:42, Rainer wrote: > Dear lute netters, > > my Vallet editions has reached milestone 1. All pieces entered and > proofread numerous times. > > 70% of the critical notes entered (a nightmare). > > > I wonder if it makes sense to add the quartets. As far as I know there > was an edition published by Tree(?). > > Anyway, I have played Vallet quartets only once in my life in Mark > Wheelers flat in Muelheim 20 years ago. > > The players were Mark (who seems to have disappeared), Stefan from > Wuppertal, Kenneth Bee (still on the lute list?) and myselfe. > > Now I have listened to one of the quartets in Fronimo. > > It sounds VERY strange - lots of wrong notes. > > In his article about the quartets Stan Buetens argued that they sound > OK when played on lutes. > > What do people say who have played the quartets? > > Should I include them in my edition? > > Rainer > > PS > > Playing music for 4 lutes was really fun :) > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > --- > Cet email a fait l'objet d'une analyse antivirus par AVG. > [3]http://www.avg.com > > -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.avg.com/
[LUTE] Re: Early Music life
I take my lute once a week to the kindergarten. The children love the sound and start singing once they see it. We sing their songs, of course, but the divisions I do for every stanza would fit renaissance music just as well. And I take it to hospital for visits. I don't open the suitcase unless requested, but when I do, most patients love it. One advantage of hospitals in terms of acoustics is that the floors are of very hard material. You may effortlessly play short easy pieces in slow pace. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Nancy Carlin Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Early Music life Datum: 05.01.2018, 0:22 Uhr An: Alain Veylit Cc: lutelist Net I have played in them as well and most of the people there are in the 80s, a lot with some kind of dementia, so they like pop tunes from their youth. I talked with someone at one of those places last year and she said that our kind of music works better in retirement homes in upscale communities with more of the demographic that might have been concert goers in their youth. I have also played in restaurants and coffee shops over the years. Chains don not work at all - they want each of their places to be exactly the same and lute music does not fit with their corporate image. Here in California even the ones that are not part of a chain like to look they are a chain and have done their research about the local communities they draw from. The last one I played at was fine until a new owner came in and decided that looking like a sport bar was a better image to make more money. That said, if I had a mailing list of active lute music fans, I probably would have been able to stay there playing in what was a dead time in their schedule. Nancy > I remember playing at a "retirement home" once. Most depressing thing > ever - the pensioners were all down on heavy drugs and one foot away > from the grave... or one push of the wheelchair away, more > accurately. After that, playing at the veterans hospital was a truly > joyful experience. You do the gigs you can, specially when they are > payed. > > One of my friends, a jazz player with a golden album, used to play in > local bars and got minimal audiences with minimal attention spans for > music. Jazz is still popular in Europe, but all but dead here. Part of > it I think are the venues: streets, metro stations and restaurants in > Europe lend themselves to music, particularly in the summer. > > Any brave soul tried to play at a McDonald's or a Starbucks?? I am > wondering how many seconds it would take to see them ejected by > "management". > > Also, watching The Blues Brothers does not encourage acts of musical > bravery in local bars deep inland... > > > > > > On 01/04/2018 01:57 PM, John Mardinly wrote: >> I played my lute at a hospice once. Went over like a lead balloon. >> Classical guitar was better received. >> >> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. >> The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters >> Francisco Goya >> >> On Jan 4, 2018, at 2:38 PM, Tristan von Neumann >> <[1]tristanvonneumann@[2]gmx.de>; wrote: >> >> My proposition would be the following: >> Assemble a team: three lutists minimum! >> If possible, add recorders, Renaissance guitar, cittern etc., a >> dulcian >> and a trombone, and for the sake of beats some Renaissance >> percussion. >> If you have a portable organ, get it on stage. >> Go to your local jazz club and pitch "Early Music Jazz Jam Session". >> When playing, have the musicians occupy the functions of respective >> jazz musicians. >> Jam the hell out of Passamezzi, Romanescas, Bergamascas etc., >> throw in >> some song standards like Vestiva I Colli or Can She Excuse, do >> virtuoso >> solos. I bet the audience will have fun. >> Get that stick out of your spine and rock the venue. >> Am 04.01.2018 um 20:52 schrieb >> [2]theoj89294@[3]new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu: >> >> Having friends in psychology, economics, and >> marketing/advertising, we >> have had this discussion over beer. And the general conclusion >> was that >> most artists (including early music artists) ought not be >> lamenting >> about why people don't show up to appreciate their art, but >> rather they >> should be discussing how best to draw in an audience. Think >> about >> it, >> if a graphic artist wants to put on an exhibit, the
[LUTE] Re: Chromatic lute works
__ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: mathias.roe...@t-online.de Betreff: Re: Chromatic lute works Datum: 17.12.2017, 11:57 Uhr An: Baroque Lute Net Is there a contemporary lute tablature of BWV 997? I was thinking the initial post asked for tablatures. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [2]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: G. C. Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Chromatic lute works Datum: 17.12.2017, 11:46 Uhr An: Liuto Internazionale Yes, how could one have forgotten BWV 997 :) Thanks Ed! G. On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Edward Martin <[1]edvihuela12@[3]gmail.com>; wrote: Capriccio Chromatico by Pietro Paolo Melij I am surprised nobody listed the fugue in c minor by JS Bach, BWV 997 -- References 1. mailto:edvihuela12@[4]gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 3. http://gmail.com>/ 4. http://gmail.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall
How about "Vatel" with UmaThurman and Gerard Depardieu? Okay, the plot takes place in Louis XIV's days and the major part of the music is by Rameau, but hey, it's well done! Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Alain Veylit Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall Datum: 07.09.2017, 4:51 Uhr An: lutelist Net Pride and Prejudice 2005 - luteless, but the ball scenes and costumes were well-researched. I once played with a gambist whose instrument had been made for one of the Errol Flynn movies. On 09/06/2017 07:16 PM, Edward C. Yong wrote: > Good dramas with proper period music that come to mind: > 1) The 1994 film Nostradamus. It had a scene of a country theatre, and > the music accompanying was Susato, with an onstage band of instruments > (unfortunately including a metal flute). Soundtrack also included > Josquin, etc. > 2) The TV series The Borgias had plenty of Renaissance music, even if > most of it was about 100 years too late, but that's better than most > productions anyway. I was asked to do a bit of musical detective work > and the findings are here: > [1]http://www.3pp.website/2013/02/[2]the-borgias-musical-background.htm l > 3) The 1995 film Restoration. Lots of Purcell, even if much was > arranged for modern orchestra. > 4) The 1994 film The Madness of King George. Lots of Haendel, mostly > arranged for modern orchestra. > > On 6 September 2017 at 23:41, Rainer <[2]RadS.BERA_GmbH@[3]t-online.de>; > wrote: > > A bit late (after 2.5 years) :) - I seem to have missed it in 2015. > I wonder if the serial really was such a success. > I have watched (in German) all 6 episodes on the German/French > [sic!] TV channel Arte recently. > Apparently at least 50% of the population suffered from depression > in those days. > How Cromwell survived 6 episodes without committing suicide is an > enigma. > Rainer > PS > This reminds me of "Shakespeare in Love" which I recently watched a > second time on German TV - with very mixed feelings :) > Of course there are many weird ideas. The queen would never enter a > public theatre. > Question to the English members: Do most (Many?) people understand > those "hidden" jokes? > I really liked the scene with Webster. > On 22.01.2015 00:39, WALSH STUART wrote: > > (first episode of much-hyped TV series in UK) > I was expecting an immediate response... > So anyway, here goes: music begins with Ah Robin (not sung - and > probably played on a lute?)...melds into Glassy instrumental stuff. > A tremolando mandoline churns out all the plucked expressive work, > although lutes figure in the mise-en-scene from time to time. > Mark Rylance is a very curious being. > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > [3][4]http://www.avast.com > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.3pp.website/2013/02/[6]the-borgias-musical-background.html > 2. mailto:RadS.BERA_GmbH@[7]t-online.de > 3. [8]http://www.avast.com/ > 4. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://the-borgias-musical-background.html/ 3. http://t-online.de>/ 4. http://www.avast.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. http://the-borgias-musical-background.html/ 7. http://t-online.de/ 8. http://www.avast.com/ 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Gumprecht
Thank you, Markus! Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Markus Lutz Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Gumprecht Datum: 04.08.2017, 14:53 Uhr An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Dear Mathias, luckily I have this edition. It includes 4 pieces for Angelique, one seems to be unique, the others transcriptions from lute (Bethune ms). Best regards Markus Am 04.08.2017 um 14:42 schrieb Mathias.Roesel@[2]t-online.de: > Dear Collected Wisdom, > Does the CNRS Gumprecht edition contain music for the angélique? The > edition is sold out, unfortunately, but perhaps someone owns a copy and > is kind enough as to look it up? > Mathias > __ > > Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App > > -- > > References > > 1. [3]http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_foot er.htm > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- Markus Lutz SchulstraÃe 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail markus@[5]gmlutz.de -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://t-online.de/ 3. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://gmlutz.de/
[LUTE] Gumprecht
Dear Collected Wisdom, Does the CNRS Gumprecht edition contain music for the angélique? The edition is sold out, unfortunately, but perhaps someone owns a copy and is kind enough as to look it up? Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: BC parts for Bach
I played it last year on the chitarone. No chance to play continuo, only the bass line as written. Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: jjnoo...@sbcglobal.net Betreff: [LUTE] BC parts for Bach Datum: 12.07.2017, 21:27 Uhr An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Hi, folks��� I���ve been asked to play in a performance of Bach���s TrauerOde (BWV 198) which calls for 2 lutes as well as several viola da gambas. Lovely, moving piece. Does anyone out there have a recommendation for a good edition? Or a set of parts for the lute(s)? Based on what I���ve received so far from the presenter for other pieces on the program, I���m not anticipating him sending me a lute-friendly BC part. I don���t need an intabulation, but it would be great to find a part that respects what the lute can do and doesn���t have an anachronistic keyboard realization stuck above the bass line. I���m anticipating that the gamba parts may be on cello and that there may not be another luter for the performance, so I expect to use a theorbo for color and volume. Suggestions/recommendations welcome. Thanks in advance. jeff Sent from Mail for Windows 10 -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: La folia
Dear Peter, So there's music for the lute in renaissance tuning in your database? Mathias __ Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App --- Original-Nachricht --- Von: Petrus Paulus Maria Steur Betreff: [LUTE] Re: La folia Datum: 11.06.2017, 9:12 Uhr An: Wim Loos Cc: LuteNet list You might also try [1][2]Http://mss.slweiss.de using the 'search' function. Peter 2017-06-10 13:28 GMT+02:00 Wim Loos <[2]wjglsoest@[3]gmail.com>;: Dear friends, I'm looking for La folia in French tablature for Renaissance lute. Does anyone where I can find it. Thanks in advance, Wim Loos -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://mss.slweiss.de/ 2. mailto:wjglsoest@[6]gmail.com 3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.t-online.de/service/redir/email_app_android_sendmail_footer.htm 2. http://mss.slweiss.de/ 3. http://gmail.com>/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://mss.slweiss.de/ 6. http://gmail.com/ 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Duet in John Surt Lute Book
Dear Matthew, thank you for pointing once again at the source! John Sturt's lute book bears collector Matthew Locke's stamp, that's why it is now called the ML lute book, or so I understand the nomenclature . A member of this list was kind enough as to share a scan. I copied the duet with Fronimo and added transcriptions for 10c lute in renaissance tuning and for 11c lute in D-minor tuning (feasible, not too demanding). I have posted the Fronimo file on http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fronimo_editor/ (files > tablatures) and the corresponding pdf file on http://lutegroup.ning.com/ (forum > lute tablatures). I agree that this fine little duet has some traits in common with the three famous lute duets by William Lawes. And it somehow invites for improvising and trying doubles. There's a little oddity at the ed, in the very last measure. While the first lute has a D-minor chord on the last beat, the second lute has a D-major chord. I take it for a Picardy third, i. e. when the last section is played for the first time, both lutes play D-minor on the last beat, but when it is repeated, both lutes play D-major on the last beat. Mathias > There is a short Allemande duet for 12-course lutes in 'Flat French' > tuning on 33v of the John Sturt's lute book, aka The M.L.L Lute Book. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: An article from today's Wall Street Journal
Yes, couldn't agree more. Ivo's information on materials has allways been a model IMO: http://www.floxflorum.com/materials.php Mathias Von: Lex van Sante An: lute mailing list list Betreff: [LUTE] Re: An article from today's Wall Street Journal Datum: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 00:50:23 +0200 > I for one would like to think that especially lute players would be > people who have the capacity to think and consequently have due > respect for our environment. > Of course there are existing lutes which were being built using > expensive materials like ebony, ivory and such. > These materials did not necessarily produce a better instrument, just > a more expensive one. In ordinary terms a show off. > The funny thing is that of the 20 odd lutes that I own and of the 52 > lutes I have constructed myself The best ones were always made out of > locally grown woods such as maple, cherry, prune, yew, spruce, apple, > pear, and spruce and even elm which are neither scarce nor > expensive.(perhaps nowadays excepting yew) I have used various > Brazilian rosewoods for the backs in the past and I have found them to > produce good lutes but nowhere near the pliable, adaptable sound of > simple lutes made of good quality home grown materials. With my > preferred lutes I would not have had any problems whatsoever crossing > whatever border. > Lucky me. > Op 27 aug 2011, om 22:59 heeft dwinh...@comcast.net het volgende > geschreven: > > > Howard, David, Stephen, > > One would hope that overzealous- "draconian, inflexible > > enforcement..." doesn't impact any of our beloved & highly esteemed > > luthiers. Gibson Guitars may have deeper- much deeper- pockets than > > the average luthier-so I thought this article was of some concern; ( > > "United Breaks Guitars", - it also breaks lutes.) But as a lute > > list, we are of course well advised not to veer too far off topic- > > especially if discussions are in danger of falling into the hopeless > > deep end of politics. > > Apologies if my link led to any of that. (Can't be too careful these > > days.) -Dan > > __ > > From: "David Smith" > > To: "howard posner" > > Cc: "Lute List" > > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 12:04:11 PM > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: An article from today's Wall Street Journal > > Thank you! > > regards > > David > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 27, 2011, at 10:10 AM, howard posner > > wrote: > > > >> On Aug 27, 2011, at 7:12 AM, Stephen Stubbs wrote: > >> > >>> Just another example of the Social Justice experiment still going > on > > in USA. > >>> > >>> Basically, > >>> > >>> Corporations are Bad. > >>> Social Justice is Good. > >>> > >>> The last major Social Justice experiment made it all the way into > > the USA Constitution as the 18th Amendment, (the Prohibition > > Amendment making it very difficult to obtain alcoholic beverages > > legally) on January 17, 1920. > > > >>> > >>> It took the 21st Amendment on December 5, 1933 to repeal the 18th > > Amendment. > >>> > >>> I don't expect the irrational experiments being done by the > current > > Attorney General of the USA (Eric Holder) to continue after the next > > President and Congress take office in January 2013. > > > >>> "The Other" Stephen Stubbs > >>> Champaign, IL > >> > >> > >> I hate to burst your bubble when you've obviously been saving up > this > > little Republican bumper sticker for the right moment to plaster it > > on the lute list, but you got the subject wrong: this is about > > actions to enforce an international treaty by the U. S. Fish and > > Wildlife Service (Interior Department) and Immigration and Customs > > Enforcement (Department of Homeland Security). It's the second time > > in a couple of years that Gibson has been raided on suspicion of > > using wood from protected species. > > > >> > >> It has nothing to do with the Attorney General, the Democratic > Party, > > corporations, or social justice (neither did Prohibition, which was > > an attempt to enforce morality; social justice legislation would be > > something like the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which is still in effect, > > even in rural Illinois, regardless of whether it's considered > > untoward government interference to tell a business that it can't > > exclude customers because of their skin color). > > > >> > >> The documentation issue is a difficult one. On the one hand, > > draconian, inflexible enforcement is unfair. On the other hand, if > > enforcement authorities don't demand rigorous documentation it's far > > too easy to smuggle illegal substances. This would defeat the > > purpose of environmental protection treaties, which are understood > > to be important by everyone in the world except members of the > > Republican Party in the USA. I have owned pre-CITES instruments > > made of woods that have since been protec
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute strings for theorbo
NN simply is a gorgeous soloist. Mathias PS: My theorbo has 82 cm VSL, and it took a while until I got used to it, but today I wouldn't say any more that 82 cm is large at all. -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute strings for theorbo > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:03:52 +0200 > From: nigelsolomon > To: "baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu" > Just out of interest, when N. North recorded his Piccinini CD some > years ago he recorded it on a K. Jacobsen theorbo. I was interested in > ordering the same instrument from Jacobsen and, if I remember > correctly, he told me the fingerboard string length was 86cm. North is > far from a giant, but he doesn't sound as if he is struggling with all > those extra centimetres on the strings! > > Nigel > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo
Sorry for the delay, I had and have to busy in my profession. May I assure you that these two theorbo mss. do exist. I have contacted the person who gave the xeroxes to me some ten years ago. The shelf marks are okay, Paris Bibliotheque National, but I'm not sure about the current whereabouts of the original manuscripts. I shall inform you asap. Mathias > The numbers 1575 and 25391 are the problem: > > If you have a look on this link from "Sources manuscrites en > tablature", you will find as theorbo sources F-B 279.152 (the famous > Saizenay, theorbo part) > F-Pn Rés. 1106 > F-Pn Rés. 1820 > F-Pn Vm7 6265 > F-AG > J-Tm is not in this list because the sources now preserved in Japanese > are not catalogued in SMT until now. > > http://w1.bnu.fr/smt/peruv.htm > > That's it. > > Gérard Rebours published in 2000 "Index thématique et tableau de > concordances" at Symétrie, ISBN 2-914373-00-7. From there we have a > work index for Visée - but without the transcriptions. > > Andreas > > Am 12.08.2011 um 09:41 schrieb R. Mattes: > > > > On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:57:08 -0700, David Smith wrote > >> Excuse me for what may be a stupid question but which manuscripts > >> are Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391? I have tried to search for these >> > using Google with no success. Where are they located, names, and are > >> they available? > > > > > Sorry, I'm far away from my reference works, but I think these would > > be F-BN ..., meaning "France, Bibliotheque National ..." > > > > HTH Ralf Mattes > > > > > >> Regards > >> David Smith > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > >> On Behalf Of Mathias Rösel Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:46 PM > >> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for > theorbo >> > >>> I would object to the idea that some > >>> version is a "rewrite" of another version. I take all three > version >>> (guitar/theorbo/score) as renderings of the same > compositional idea. > >> > >> A bit more than that, no? Exact transpositions of the same pieces, > >> I'd say. Perhaps we won't be able to tell which was first (as in >> > Lessing's Ring Parable), but it's pretty clear that one _was_ first >> > and the others are adaptations. > >> > These pieces were not published in print as theorbo pieces at > all. > The publication of the Pieces de Theorbe et de Luth in 1716 > suggests that the music previously existed as theorbo music, but > it wasn't published in print. Saizenay is dated 1699, but R1575 > (and its sister ms.) is considerably earlier, probably. > > >>> You know of any source earlier than 1682? Would you mind sharing? > >> > >> Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391 are two theorbo mss. that abound with >> > music by de Visee. Some concordances with Saizenay, but both mss. > >> seem to be much earlier than 1699 and earlier than 1680, I'd say. > >> > >>> Why? It might well be a written down version of the "core" > composition. > >>> The instrument-specific versions adapt to the resp. instruments > range. > >> > >> I for one have never heard of such a thing like a core composition, > >> to be used for instrument-specific adaptations, in the 17th > century. > >> > >>> But who claimed that? The statement I questioned (and still do) > was >>> that since the scored version is a forth higher that implies a > theorbo >>> tuned a forth higher. > >> > >> An idea that was positively maintained e. g. by Jose Moreno in the > booklet >> to his CD with music by de Visee. I agree with you in > doubting it. > >> > >> Mathias > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > R. Mattes - > > Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg > > r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de > > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Re: Mace
> I hear you loud and clear with regard to renaissance lute being a good > prep. for baroque. Having played 10-courses, my thumb is pretty > comfortable all over. I use thumb-under, even on the 10-course, That's what you can see with many players, that much is true. When you look at paintings of people playing the 10c lute (and the more so baroque lute players), however, you will see nothing else but thumb-out. And Vallet wrote in his 1615 preface (Secret des Muses), that although some non-versatile players in his days would still use thumb-in technique (thumb-under), he considered it ridiculous (sic!) and strongly recommended his students to use thumb-out technique. Post your RH little finger close to the bridge, set your fingers into a right angle with the strings, and stretch your thumb toward the rose. The resulting sound will be silvery with the upper voices, kinda resembling a tiny harpsichord, and soft with the basses. It distinctly differs from the "classical" renaissance lute. The reason why many players of 10c lutes and baroque lutes do not use this technique is, or so I guess, that it resembles classical guitar technique much too closely (except for the position of the RH very close to the bridge). We do want to get as far as possible from our dark past, don't we ;^) > I think what I was trying to say is that the ornamentation on baroque > lute seems to be more detailed, or refined, or whatever one would call > it (at a loss for the right word?). Yes. George Torres offered a detailed analysis of French baroque ornaments in a recent Lute Society publication. I think that ornaments in the 17th and 18th centuries were much less subject to personal taste than one would possibly reckon today, as they were integral to the music, not additional adornment. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re: Mace
> re-reading it and trying to absorb as much as I can. My experience as been that I needed to _do_ what he describes so as to see what he means. > I appreciate your descriptions of the ornaments, and I know that going > "baroque" is going to require me to re-learn. I have heard it is like > learning a new language... Can't second that view. Stephen Stubbs (the one) once informed me, "your thumb must feel at home all over". Took me years to really learn it, and I'm still not exactly satisfied. But it applies to baroque lute music just as well as to renaissance music. Consider e. g. music by Francesco da Milano, Hans Newsidler, Francis Cutting, to name a few. The thumb is always to play the lower line, be it on the 2nd course or on the 6th. That way, you will be able to tell one voice froom another,and you will _hear_ the entrances of new voices. So IMO renaissance lute playing technique is a good prep school for baroque. Mathias > Hi Brent, > > > that's something we have in common, indeed! Are you currently studying > a section in that book? As for music, I like the F major section for > the best. > > > As for ornaments, I find it striking that he says, a trill starts on > the main note, but it is fashionable to combine, and to start it, with > a back-fall. > > In 1638, Pierre Gaultier published his own signs for ornaments. An x > means a trill. Gaultier's trill (tremblement) starts on the main note, > obviously, as he has another sign for the backfalls, but close to > never combines the two signs. > > The Pickering lute book (ca. 1645) has # for the trill and a comma for > the back fall. Both signs are more often than not combined. In other > words, the fashion of starting a trill with the upper auxiliary note > probably started during the 1640ies. > > Mace mirrors that development, obviously. > > > I'm thinking about Vieux Gaultier's music. He ceased to work in public > in 1631, which was before that fashion started. My conclusion is that > trills in Vieux Gaultier's music should start on the main note. Which > is a difficult thing as much of his music has gone through the sieve > of his cousin's editions (1669 / 1672) some twenty years after Vieux > Gaultier's death (1651). > > > His music seems to have been rewritten, as it continued to be popular, > but the tunings changed. Some of his pieces appear twice in one ms. in > two tunings, viz. flat tuning and D minor tuning (e. g. in D-RO > 54-xvii). > > > All of Ennemond Gaultier's music that Denis Gaultier published, is in > the D minor tuning. However, the first prints that included this > tuning, were published in 1638 (Ballard / Pierre Gaultier). Definitely > after Vieux Gaultier's retirement. > > > IMHO it seems safe to say that Vieux Gaultier probably used the tuning > that old-fashioned Thomas Mace still propagated in 1676, but that the > fashion of combining a trill with a back-fall hadn't yet started > during Viux Gaultier's active days. > > > Mathias > > > > > -Original-Nachricht- > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Mace > > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 03:53:44 +0200 > > From: brentlynk > > To: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" > > > > > Hi Mathias, > > > > Thanks for that...I actually like the book, too...It's nice to hear > > positive things about Mace! > > > > > > Regards, > > Brent > > > > - Original Message > > From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" To: > > "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 5:13:35 PM > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace > > > > > > > > May I say that I've learned a lot from Thomas Mace's book as regards > > French and English music of nthe 1620ies through 1670ies. And I > > particularly enjoyed his music which I perceived as a blend of French > > texture and English folk tunes. > > > > His tuning allows you to play all of that sophisticated music with > so > many accidentaly (at least in the CNRS editions) in simple keys > with > no or not more than one accidentals. > > > > Even partbooks with Mace's tuning have survived in the Bodleian > > iibrary. Nice consort music, or so I've read in an article by Rob > > MacKillop. > > > > Mathias (from Tunisia) > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > >
[LUTE] Re: Re: Mace-- Not Mace Anymore
> Mathias, > I second what Steve says...I am in the process of getting one of my > 10-course lutes converted to 11-courses. In fact, I know just the > person to do it for you, for a good price...I haven't gotten mine back > yet, but I trust him and he has a good reputation... Tnx a lot, but I live beyond the pond, you see, in the Old Continent ... > If you convert > yours to 11-courses, you can still go back and re-string and tune it > like a renaissance lute... Danny Shoskes once wrote on this list, there's an ideal number of lutes to possess: just one more (IIRC). I have followed this advice ever since, so that I'm happy I don't need to convert one of my lutes. Thank you, nevertheless. BTW there is a booklet available from http://www.antiqua-edition.de/lautenmusik/barocklaute/0095a30982042.html on how to retune your 10c lute so as to get Les Accords Nouveaux, i.e. so called transitional tunings, which I'd count as baroque. Mathias > ----- Original Message > From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" To: > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Sent: Wed, July 20, 2011 4:41:09 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re: Mace-- Not Mace Anymore > > Steve, > > first of all I'd think about how to convert my 10c into an 11c lute, > as there are not exactly many pieces in D minor tuning for 10 courses. > > Mathias > > -Original-Nachricht- > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace-- Not Mace Anymore > > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 04:13:11 +0200 > > From: Steve Ramey > > To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > > > All, > > OK, so with all this talk of baroque lute being somewhat easy to > > play, I need to do something useful with my 10C baroque lute, once I > > get a proper set of strings for D minor tuning. Does anyone have > > any recommendations for easy pieces with which to begin-- something > > easily accessible, both in terms of laying ones hands on and playing > > it. I've checked out the items on Wayne's Baroque Lute tab page and > > some look and sound possibly do-able. I'm not an accomplished > > lutenist on the ren lute, so ideas for something easy would be most > > appreciated. > > Thanks! > > Steve > > __ > > From: Thomas Walker > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:12 AM > > Subject: [LUTE] Mace > > Hey all, > > Interesting discussion. I have to say, I'm with Sterling & Roman et > > al > > on this one. I started on renaissance lute (actually, guitar before > > that), and D minor baroque lute is still a secondary instrument for > > me. > > But if you can find the basses (most of us can with some patient > > work), there is a vast repertoire that is available, and much easier > > than most of Dowland, for instance. > > From my perspective, the hardest lute music is Italian, c. > > 1580-1620. > > Piccinini's music, straddling the two epochs, is unrelentingly > > difficult. The bass work isn't too bad (even Toccata XX from his > > 1623 print doesn't demand too much of one's "thumb radar"), but the > > left hand work is brutal. > > Zamboni's music for archlute doesn't spend a lot of time below the > > 9th or 10th course (I think most of it you could play on a veil ton > > 10c lute), but even as his textures are leaner than Weiss', the left > > hand work is considerably more demanding. D minor works! > > Cheers, > > Tom Walker, Jr. > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Re: Mace-- Not Mace Anymore
Steve, first of all I'd think about how to convert my 10c into an 11c lute, as there are not exactly many pieces in D minor tuning for 10 courses. Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace-- Not Mace Anymore > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 04:13:11 +0200 > From: Steve Ramey > To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > All, > OK, so with all this talk of baroque lute being somewhat easy to play, > I need to do something useful with my 10C baroque lute, once I get a > proper set of strings for D minor tuning. Does anyone have any > recommendations for easy pieces with which to begin-- something > easily accessible, both in terms of laying ones hands on and playing > it. I've checked out the items on Wayne's Baroque Lute tab page and > some look and sound possibly do-able. I'm not an accomplished > lutenist on the ren lute, so ideas for something easy would be most > appreciated. > Thanks! > Steve > __ > From: Thomas Walker > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:12 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Mace > Hey all, > Interesting discussion. I have to say, I'm with Sterling & Roman et > al > on this one. I started on renaissance lute (actually, guitar before > that), and D minor baroque lute is still a secondary instrument for > me. > But if you can find the basses (most of us can with some patient > work), there is a vast repertoire that is available, and much easier > than most of Dowland, for instance. > From my perspective, the hardest lute music is Italian, c. 1580-1620. > Piccinini's music, straddling the two epochs, is unrelentingly > difficult. The bass work isn't too bad (even Toccata XX from his 1623 > print doesn't demand too much of one's "thumb radar"), but the left > hand work is brutal. > Zamboni's music for archlute doesn't spend a lot of time below the 9th > or 10th course (I think most of it you could play on a veil ton 10c > lute), but even as his textures are leaner than Weiss', the left hand > work is considerably more demanding. D minor works! > Cheers, > Tom Walker, Jr. > -- > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[LUTE] Re: Re: Mace
Hi Brent, that's something we have in common, indeed! Are you currently studying a section in that book? As for music, I like the F major section for the best. As for ornaments, I find it striking that he says, a trill starts on the main note, but it is fashionable to combine, and to start it, with a back-fall. In 1638, Pierre Gaultier published his own signs for ornaments. An x means a trill. Gaultier's trill (tremblement) starts on the main note, obviously, as he has another sign for the backfalls, but close to never combines the two signs. The Pickering lute book (ca. 1645) has # for the trill and a comma for the back fall. Both signs are more often than not combined. In other words, the fashion of starting a trill with the upper auxiliary note probably started during the 1640ies. Mace mirrors that development, obviously. I'm thinking about Vieux Gaultier's music. He ceased to work in public in 1631, which was before that fashion started. My conclusion is that trills in Vieux Gaultier's music should start on the main note. Which is a difficult thing as much of his music has gone through the sieve of his cousin's editions (1669 / 1672) some twenty years after Vieux Gaultier's death (1651). His music seems to have been rewritten, as it continued to be popular, but the tunings changed. Some of his pieces appear twice in one ms. in two tunings, viz. flat tuning and D minor tuning (e. g. in D-RO 54-xvii). All of Ennemond Gaultier's music that Denis Gaultier published, is in the D minor tuning. However, the first prints that included this tuning, were published in 1638 (Ballard / Pierre Gaultier). Definitely after Vieux Gaultier's retirement. IMHO it seems safe to say that Vieux Gaultier probably used the tuning that old-fashioned Thomas Mace still propagated in 1676, but that the fashion of combining a trill with a back-fall hadn't yet started during Viux Gaultier's active days. Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Mace > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 03:53:44 +0200 > From: brentlynk > To: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" > > > Hi Mathias, > > Thanks for that...I actually like the book, too...It's nice to hear > positive things about Mace! > > > Regards, > Brent > > - Original Message > From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" To: > "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 5:13:35 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace > > > > May I say that I've learned a lot from Thomas Mace's book as regards > French and English music of nthe 1620ies through 1670ies. And I > particularly enjoyed his music which I perceived as a blend of French > texture and English folk tunes. > > His tuning allows you to play all of that sophisticated music with so > many accidentaly (at least in the CNRS editions) in simple keys with > no or not more than one accidentals. > > Even partbooks with Mace's tuning have survived in the Bodleian > iibrary. Nice consort music, or so I've read in an article by Rob > MacKillop. > > Mathias (from Tunisia) > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > --
[LUTE] Re: Re: Mace
> I think it was last year at the seminar in Cleveland that Andy > Rutherford had what he called his 'Mace' lute. It was a very charming > 12 course lute based on what Mace describes and also on half of the > dyophone(sp?) lute shown in Mace's book. > --Sterling Nice coincidence! One of the last Lute News had a whole section on Mace, with David van Edwards and comrades-in-timbers sporting their latest model, a double-headed 12c lute (body after Venere, IIRC). I myself chose the Wolff lute in Füssen for a copy, as its VSL of 63 cm allows for Mace's tuning with the 1st course = g'. Mace is a patient and thorough teacher, who never forgets to cheer up his students, explaining each and every detail of possible postures, RH and LH fingerings, ornaments, humours of different pieces and so on. I can very well imagine why and how prof players to-be learned to play the lute from his book still in Handel's days! Mathias > - Original Message > From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" To: > "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 3:13:35 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Mace > > > > May I say that I've learned a lot from Thomas Mace's book as regards > French and English music of nthe 1620ies through 1670ies. And I > particularly enjoyed his music which I perceived as a blend of French > texture and English folk tunes. > > His tuning allows you to play all of that sophisticated music with so > many accidentaly (at least in the CNRS editions) in simple keys with > no or not more than one accidentals. > > Even partbooks with Mace's tuning have survived in the Bodleian > iibrary. Nice consort music, or so I've read in an article by Rob > MacKillop. > > Mathias (from Tunisia) > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >
[LUTE] Re: Mace
May I say that I've learned a lot from Thomas Mace's book as regards French and English music of nthe 1620ies through 1670ies. And I particularly enjoyed his music which I perceived as a blend of French texture and English folk tunes. His tuning allows you to play all of that sophisticated music with so many accidentaly (at least in the CNRS editions) in simple keys with no or not more than one accidentals. Even partbooks with Mace's tuning have survived in the Bodleian iibrary. Nice consort music, or so I've read in an article by Rob MacKillop. Mathias (from Tunisia) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re: What's the point to 'historical sound'
Chris, as for me, I'm not a prof musician like you are. However, I love to attend recitals where I can hear and learn something new. Not necessarily new music (perhaps, though, newly discovered early music), new interpretations will do as well. I do not expect performers to meet my desire for joy. I do not want musicians to play all the old goodies that we all know so well. I do not judge performers according to recordings that I'm familiar with or according to recitals that I've attended before. I try not to be a resentment-listener, as Adorno would put it (Ressentiment-Hörer). For me, early music is an opportunity to encounter musical ideas of the past in a live context. Beauty in terms of music was defined differently in different eras of the past. That applies to lute music as well. I think that's why there were such a lot of different types of lutes. I try not to apply my 21st century notion of beauty on early music. E. g. some modern interpretation of inegale in French baroque lute music are taken from US-American jazz. May be right, may be wrong. At least I try to be aware of whence my means of interpretation comes. Unfortunately, I was raised in an environment where information about the 17th through 19th centuries was no natural part of education. So I can't do it all naturally like David R. Enjoyment and appreciation of the arts have been matters of training and education ever since. I think performers should not only try to focus but also know their audiences. I once had the opportunity to attend a recital where the singer informed the audiences in a tuning-break that there had been lots of other musical versions of the Seven Commandments in the 17th century. When people started giggling, he looked puzzled but wouldn't realize the reason behind the regalement. Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE] Re: What's the point to 'historical sound' > Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 05:39:05 +0200 > From: Christopher Wilke > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Mathias, > > > --- On Sat, 7/2/11, Mathias Roesel wrote: > > > > > Audiences expected to be pleased. > > > > I beg to differ. > > > > What do you call a person who doesn't believe that people come to > concerts to enjoy themselves? A musician. > > Chris > > Christopher Wilke > Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer > www.christopherwilke.com > > > > > > > > > Mathias > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web?
See also http://www.gerbode.net/ft2= /composers/MNewsidler/saltarello/ Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE] Re: = Pieces of Melchior Neusidler in the Web? > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 = 16:06:07 +0100 > From: Hilbert Joerg > To: Andreas Schroth > Cc: lute List > Dear A= ndreas, > > it's not the web, but two or three of = those pieces are part of he > supplement of Lauteninfo of the Deut= schen Lautengesellschaft 4/2010 > (french tab.). > Best, = Joerg > > > > > Am 20.= 03.2011 um 15:27 schrieb Andreas Schroth: > > >= ; > Dear collected wisdom, are there some pieces by Melchior Neusidler > > in tabulatur (italian or french) in the net?( I know, there = are some > > printed facsimiles) > > Thank You all!= > > Yours > > Andreas Schroth, Berlin, Germany > > > > > > > > To get on o= r off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartm= outh.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >= > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Other de Gallots....
Dear Martyn, Grzegorz, Martin, the Gallots seemingly were quite a large family, that much seems to be true ... I only tried to make clear that Jacques was the name of at least two members of the gang. I still have at least two questions. 1. The print of Pieces de Luth Composees sur differents Modes is more often than not dated ca. 1670. But if the allemande Le Bout that it contains, was taken from Denis Gaultier's second print, Livre de tablature etc., then it must be after 1672. Correct? 2. If Antoine and Alexandre were often confused, then who is the author of Le Canon contained in the Milleran ms.? Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Odp: Other de Gallots > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 15:40:26 +0100 > From: Martyn Hodgson > To: Grzegorz Joachimiak > Cc: lute List , Martin Shepherd > > > What about the guitar de Gallot: Henri Francois de Gallot (ignore the > computer glich below). The dates in the Ms (Oxford, Bodleian Library, > Ms. Mus.Sch. C.94) suggest it was complied between 1660 and 1684 and > in England. > > There's also possibly even more plucking de Gallots, since on f. 128 > is a 'Tombeau de Charles De Gallot par De Gallot d'Irelande' > suggesting two more in addition to Henri Francois.. > > The 'de Gallot d'Angleterre' mentioned in the Ms is probably Henri > Francois himself, but if not then yet another one surfaces. > > MH > ' > --- On Sun, 20/3/11, Grzegorz Joachimiak wrote: > From: Grzegorz Joachimiak > Subject: Odp: [LUTE] Other de Gallots > To: "Martyn Hodgson" , > mathias.roe...@t-online.de > Cc: "lute List" , "Martin Shepherd" > > Date: Sunday, 20 March, 2011, 14:17 > > Dear Martin and Mathias, > I would like to pay your attention that Antoine Gallot who died in > 1647 in Vilnius was not the same person as Gallot d'Angers. Jacques > Gallot (I) was NOT brother to Antoine Gallot. This is one of main > problem with to determine which evidence indicate to any connection > between Antoine Gallot and rest of Gallot's family (apart from his > name). > Probably you confused Antoine with Alexandre so-called older Gallot > (Le vieux Gallot d'Angers). Alexandre was probably Jacques Gallot's > (I, so-called vieux Gallot de Paris) cousin (M. Rollin) or brother > (MGG). > Antoine Gallot was connected with Marco Scacchi's band. In his > appendix (Xenia apollinea) to Cribrum Musicum (Venice 1643) we could > find one piece titled "Canon a 2" by "Dn. Antonij Gallot." > More informations about Antoine and especially rest of Gallot's family > you could find in > M. Rollin, OEuvres des Gallot, [CLF], Paris 1987 and in "Gallot" > entries in MGG2 and New Grove Dictionary. > Have a nice afternnon > Grzegorz > Dnia 20-03-2011 o godz. 13:58 Martyn Hodgson napisaAA'(a): > >Dear Martin, > > > >The guitar composing de Gallot is Henry FranAS:ois de Gallot who > wrote > >(probably between 1660 and 1670) the large and distinctive Ms > now in > >the Bodleian: Pieces de guittarre de differendes autheures > recueillis > >par Pieces de guittarre de differendes autheures recueillis par > Henry > >FranAS:ois de Gallot (Oxford, Bodleian Library, Ms. Mus.Sch. > C.94). > > > >Martyn > > > >--- On Sun, 20/3/11, [1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de > ><[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote: > > > > From: [3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de > <[4]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Jacques Gallot and Francesco da > > Milano > > To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > Date: Sunday, 20 March, 2011, 12:08 > > > >Let me try. > >Jacques Gallot (I) was brother to Antoine Gallot. Antoine (Gallot > >d'Angers) died 1647 in Vilnius, Jacques (I) (Gallot de Paris) > died >around 1685 in Paris. Both were called Gallot le vieux. > >Jacques Gallot (I) was lute teacher to Sebastien de Brossard (b. > 1654) > >in Paris. The Milleran ms. hearkens back to him. He bequeathes > music by > >his brother as well as music by the Gaultiers. Antoine Gallot's > >courante Le Canon (in Milleran) is reflected by a courante of > the same > >name and model by Denis Gaultier (Barbe, p 1). > >Jacques (II) Gallot, called le jeune, was born around 1640 in > Paris and > >died there around 1700. Boetticher guessed that Jacques (II) was > a son > >to Antoine Gallot. The pr
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Jacques Gallot and Francesco da Milano
Let me try. Jacques Gallot (I) was brother to Antoine Gallot. Antoine (Gallot d'Angers) died 1647 in Vilnius, Jacques (I) (Gallot de Paris) died around 1685 in Paris. Both were called Gallot le vieux. Jacques Gallot (I) was lute teacher to Sebastien de Brossard (b. 1654) in Paris. The Milleran ms. hearkens back to him. He bequeathes music by his brother as well as music by the Gaultiers. Antoine Gallot's courante Le Canon (in Milleran) is reflected by a courante of the same name and model by Denis Gaultier (Barbe, p 1). Jacques (II) Gallot, called le jeune, was born around 1640 in Paris and died there around 1700. Boetticher guessed that Jacques (II) was a son to Antoine Gallot. The print "Pieces de Luth Composees sur differens Modes par J. G. Auec les folies d'Espagnes etc" (Paris probably 1670) is his work. So far ... Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Jacques Gallot and Francesco da Milano > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:16:51 +0100 > From: Martin Shepherd > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Thanks, I'd forgotten that. Can you help us out by telling us > something about which is which? I'm thinking mostly of the printed > book, and the music in the Barbe MS - and it would be interesting to > know if they are by different composers. Isn't there also guitar > music, or is that yet another Gallot? > > Martin > > On 20/03/2011 00:25, Mathias Roesel wrote: > > > Erm … there were two … > > > > Mathias > > > >> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > >> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > Im >> Auftrag von Martin Shepherd > >> Gesendet: Samstag, 19. März 2011 12:41 > >> An: Lute List > >> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Jacques Gallot and Francesco da Milano > >> > >> > >> Yes, I agree! > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> On 18/03/2011 22:46, wikla wrote: > >>> Original Message > >>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Jacques Gallot and Francesco da Milano >>> > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:29:00 +0200 > >>> From: wikla > >>> To: baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu > >>> > >>> Dear baroque lutenists, > >>> > >>> after having check-played through quite a few pieces by Jacques > >>> Gallot, I've come to the conclusion (that means this is my > subjective >>> opininion, of > >>> course!) that Jacques really is one of the great lute composers - > in >>> the level of F. da Milano, Dowland, E. Gaultier and such). And > what >>> especially came to mind, is that J. Gallot in a way tastes > same as >>> Francesco da Milano > >>> - about 150 years later: very economic writing, actually in > extrem, >>> very clever ideas of melody and harmony, extremely very > well written >>> to the instrument, its tuning, and to the fingers of > both hands of the >>> player. Not to speak of the enjoyment to the > ears and understanding. > >>> > >>> So Jacques is thus taken to my heaven of lute geniuses! :-) >>> > >>> Recommended! > >>> > >>> All the best, > >>> > >>> Arto > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Jacques Gallot and Francesco da Milano
Let me try. Jacques Gallot (I) was brother to Antoine Gallot. Antoine (Gallot d'Angers= ) died 1647 in Vilnius, Jacques (I) (Gallot de Paris) died around 1685 in P= aris. Both were called Gallot le vieux. Jacques Gallot (I) was lute teacher to Sebastien de Brossard (b. 1654) i= n Paris. The Milleran ms. hearkens back to him. He bequeathes music by his = brother as well as music by the Gaultiers. Antoine Gallot's couran= te Le Canon (in Milleran) is reflected by a courante = &n= bsp;of the same name and model by Denis Gaultier = (Barbe, p 1). Jacques (II) Gallot, called le jeune, was born around 1640 in Paris and = died there around 1700. Boetticher guessed that Jacques (II) was a son to A= ntoine Gallot. The print "Pieces de Luth Composees sur differens Modes par = J. G. Auec les folies d'Espagnes etc" (Paris probably 1670) is his work. So far ... Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Jacques Gallo= t and Francesco da Milano > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:16:51 +0100<= br /> > From: Martin Shepherd > T= o: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Thanks, I'd forgotten that. Can= you help us out by telling us > something about which is which? = I'm thinking mostly of the printed > book, and the music in the Ba= rbe MS - and it would be interesting to > know if they are by diff= erent composers. Isn't there also guitar > music, or is that yet = another Gallot? > > Martin > > On 20/= 03/2011 00:25, Mathias Roesel wrote: > > > Erm &helli= p; there were two ... > > > > Mathias &g= t; > > >> -Urspruengliche Nachricht- &g= t; >> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.ed= u] > Im >> Auftrag von Martin Shepherd > >> G= esendet: Samstag, 19. Maerz 2011 12:41 > >> An: Lute Lis= t > >> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Jacques Gallot and Francesco da M= ilano > >> > >> > >> Yes, I ag= ree! > >> > >> Martin > >> > >> On 18/03/2011 22:46, wikla wrote: > >>> = Original Message > >>> Subject: [BAROQU= E-LUTE] Jacques Gallot and Francesco da Milano >>> > Date= : Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:29:00 +0200 > >>> From: wikla > >>> To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmout= h.edu > >>> > >>> Dear baroque lutenist= s, > >>> > >>> after having check-playe= d through quite a few pieces by Jacques > >>> Gallot, I'v= e come to the conclusion (that means this is my > subjective >&= gt;> opininion, of > >>> course!) that Jacques really = is one of the great lute composers - > in >>> the level o= f F. da Milano, Dowland, E. Gaultier and such). And > what >>= ;> especially came to mind, is that J. Gallot in a way tastes >= same as >>> Francesco da Milano > >>> - about 1= 50 years later: very economic writing, actually in > extrem, >&= gt;> very clever ideas of melody and harmony, extremely very > = well written >>> to the instrument, its tuning, and to the fingers= of > both hands of the >>> player. Not to speak of the e= njoyment to the > ears and understanding. > >>><= br /> > >>> So Jacques is thus taken to my heaven of lute geniu= ses! :-) >>> > >>> Recommended! > >= >> > >>> All the best, > >>> > >>> Arto > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> To get on or off this list se= e list information at > >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~= wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Wandervögel Songs
You'll have all the tunes and lyrics from this edition, at least. But these are adaptations for the keyboard, definitely no more feasible on the lute. Quite a few copies of Der Zupfgeigenhandel are still floating around ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Zupfgeigenhansl ), why not take one of those. Mathias > Some of you may be interested in this collection in several volumes > with hundreds of songs (alas arranged for piano, but originally for > lute-guitar): > > [1]http://hdl.handle.net/1802/14257 > > Publication Name: Was die Wandervögel singen ... für > Klavier bearbeitet und herausgegeben von Hermann Krome. Illustriert > von Paul Telemann. Band I-IV. > Arranger:Krome, Hermann (1888 - 1955) > > Is anyone out there interested in this repertory? Roman? > References > > 1. http://hdl.handle.net/1802/14257 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Who got this gig?
I can even HEAR him heavily strumming! M= athias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE]= Who got this gig? > Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 03:32:02 +0100 &= gt; From: Daniel F Heiman > To: Lut= e...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [1]http://www.youtube.com/user/protest= ant7#p/u/58/BcgOLMloEOI > > [2]http://www.youtube.com/us= er/protestant7#p/u/59/YyNLx8n_49o > > [3]http://www.yout= ube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/60/mf3Iks-iibA > > [4]http:= //www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/61/ylJ04ARTGlY > >= ; [5]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/62/lxnO9UyNMgg > = > [6]http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/63/XYUbGAwnVfU > > There is a clear shot of the theorbo player at about = 6:07-6:12 in part > 2/3 of the Handel Dixit Dominus at 0:24-0:27 a= nd 12:04-12:07 in the > Vivaldi. On the whole a pretty nice perfo= rmance (although the choral > forces may be larger than necessary)= and a very well made video. > > > >= Daniel > > -- > > References &= gt; > 1. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/58/BcgOLMloE= OI > 2. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/59/YyNLx8n_49o= > 3. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/60/mf3Iks-iibA > 4. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/61/ylJ04ARTGlY > 5. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/62/lxnO9UyNMgg = > 6. http://www.youtube.com/user/protestant7#p/u/63/XYUbGAwnVfU &= gt; > > To get on or off this list see list information= at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html = > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: James Tyler
I remember him playing in Bremen with a consort (seem to remember it was in January 1981) with the singer Glenda Simpson. She was advanced in pregnancy and miraculously managed to sing messa di voce, as it was then called. Monteverdi's Se dolce e il tormento (Mr Tyler accompanying on the guitar) was a gem. Mr Tyler showed wit and humour on stage, explaining in German the meaning of "a dump", which is a difficult thing in itself, to the best of his command of that difficult language, regaling the audience. Then he played one with his partner in a really hazardous tempo, and instead of marking the close of the race with rubato, he (they) kept their tempo and played the last measure like a mouse that vanishes in its hole. The audience had kept their breath in suspense, and at that point burst into broad laughter. Mathias -Original-Nachricht- > Subject: [LUTE] Re: James Tyler > Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 04:22:32 +0100 > From: David Tayler > To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" > James had a long battle with diabetes, so it might be nice to set up > something where people can contribute in his name. > The Early Music program at USC is now run by Adam Gilbert, he might > know if there is a memorial planned. > > There are some old phtos on LPs and booklets that I remember from the > 70s and 80s, (and 60s, amazingly) if anyone has copies it would be > nice to digitize them. > There should be photos from his time with the New York Pro Musica, the > Early Music Consort of London, the Consort of Musicke, and the Julian > Bream Consort, to name but a few; there must be some BBC material as > well. > James was at Hartt Conservatory and studied for a while with my > teacher, Joeseph Iadone, but I don't know much about his career in > Southern California, except of course that he built up the very > successful program there. > Sadly, many who would have photos from that time have passed away as > well. I'm sure Anthony Rooley would have a wealth of material from > that time. > > dt > > > >Thanks Nancy, > >I was checking the USC WEB site and was puzzled that there was no > >announcement... For those who may not know, Jim founded and > >developed a master's degree in early music performance there in the > >late 1980's. It's hard to tell from the WEB site if had retired or > >not, (they do have a link to a recording of the early music ensemble > >that seems current and seems to have some of his playing in it) but > >I think a lot of his energy in the past 20 years was devoted to this > >program and his students. It's been 22 years now, but I still have a > >wonderful memory of being invited to sit in as a guest student for a > >year. I hope many of his alumni will testify on that site of his > >goodness, generosity and talent. > >Alain > > > >On 11/30/2010 11:56 AM, Nancy Carlin wrote: > >> I am forwarding a note from Daniel > Zuluaga about >> plans for a web site in > memory on James Tyler. Also we are planning to >> plublish > something about him in the next Quarterly. Jocelyn Nelson is >> > the person organizing this and if any of you want to contribute to >> >that, you can contact her at > >> nels...@ecu.edu > >> Nancy > >> > >> We are in the process of setting up a memorial website for Jim, > which >> may happen in the coming weeks. In the meantime, everyone > can send >> their remembrances, anecdotes, contributions and any > other notes of >> interest regarding Jim to the following email we > set up: >> [1]rememberingjamesty...@gmail.com > >> This will be the basic email from which we will process all > notes to go >> to the memorial website, to be hosted as the USC > servers. > >> Obituaries are due this week in The Guardian, The Independent, > and the >> LA Times. > >> > >> Nancy Carlin Associates > >> P.O. Box 6499 > >> Concord, CA 94524 USA > >> phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 > >> web sites - [2]www.nancycarlinassociates.com > >> [3]www.groundsanddivisions.info > >> Representing: > >> FROM WALES - Crasdant& Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe& > Jez >> Lowe& The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - > The Venere >> Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths& Morrongiello& > Young >> Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA > >> web site - [4]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org > >> -- > >> > >>References > >> > >> 1. mailto:rememberingjamesty...@gmail.com > >> 2. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/ > >> 3. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/ > >> 4. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/ > >> > >> > >>To get on or off this list see list information at > >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Erzlaute
&g= t; In its widest sense, the theorbo simply means a lute based on either a> bass lute or a renaissance lute with an extended neck. However, ev= en > as I write this, I know that there are those who will of cours= e > disagree. I wonder who would disagree, as this simpl= y is the widest possible definition. Theorbo =3D lute with extended neck. > were around twelve types of theorbo historically, many of th= ose have Twelve types of use of the name, you meant to say, I ta= ke it? > One point that you make concerning the tuning: I don= 't believe that it > is possible to determine the tuning of an orig= inal instrument--for one > thing, there were many tunings and many = pitches. Hm... what about a Tieffenbrucker 7c (IIRC) with 44cm v= ibrating string length? 6c Hieber 58 cm? 14c Sellas 65cm (fretboard)? You c= an come close to plausible guesses for relative tunings, at least. > Lastly, I must addd that even though the modern references are in> agreement about the erzlaute, I'm sorry? &g= t; Etymology fo Lute as Arabic for "wood" but this is also incorrect as > the early writers consulted modern Arabic dictionaries instead of > medieval ones. What's wrong with that? 'oud means wood, = even in Qur'anic Arabic. The actual question was whether wood referred to t= he building material of the Oud or to the material of the mizrab (plectrum)= . Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Erzlaute
&g= t; The term "double headed French lute" is misleading because this type > was not used in France. So I changed to "double headed lute" Which will hopefully prevail! Terms may refer to a) building, or b) tun= ing, at its best to both. Double headed lute refers to building, solely, wh= ich is correct because double headed lutes came with varying numbers of cou= rses and several different tunings. > Sometimes the baroque l= ute with swan neck was called "theorbo" or > "German theorbo". In t= he today's view it's not correct because the > tuning is that of a = baroque lute. So we have the princip that the name > says also some= thing on the tuning. But swan-necks will pass as theorboed lutes= , no? > The "German theorbo" is in the today's view the 14-c= ourse continuo > instrument with the tuning F G A B C D E F G A d f= a d', described by > Weiss and Baron. So the combination of German= and theorbo says that > it's an own tuning and not the normal theo= rbo tuning. Merely conventional, and bad, IMHO, as "German"= refers neither to building nor to tuning. I don't know a better name, I mu= st admit. *clenches teeth* Baron called it Theorbe (theorbo). For him= , that would do. Why not for us? Theorbo is a generic term anyway. Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Erzlaute
Pe= rhaps, it's a matter of dictionaries, indeed. Not sure for English archlute= , but Erzlaute was defined to mean what we'd today call theorboed lutes by = Sachs. Seem to remember he even invented the name. Will look it up when I'm= back home tonight. As for booklets, Erzlaute isn't very frequen= tly mentioned at all because there aren't many recordings with arciliuto, l= iuto attiorbato, archlute available over here. All theorbo players I know w= ill call their instrument Theorbe or Chitarrone, certainly not Erzlaute. Respectfully, too, Mathias -Original-Nac= hricht- > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Erzlaute > Datum: Fri, 10= Jul 2009 10:48:38 +0200 > Von: David Tayler > An: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" = ; > Although I will of course defer to my German > co= lleagues in matters of native language, > I have used the term for = 35 years in Germany with no problems. > If you take a few hundred C= Ds from the last > thirty years you will find that the term is > usually used for archlute. Not always, but very frequently. >= You will also find from the same period that a > proportion of the= se CDs also conflates the terms > theorbo, chitarrone, and archlute= , so there can't > be a definite meaning for the terms. > H= istorically, of course, the term theorbo could also refer to an > a= rchlute. > Naturally, the CDs could be wrong, and they often &= gt; are in the disposition of the instruments. > This is understand= able, however, since many > unabridged German dictionaries give Erz= laute as a > synonym for Bogenlaute (which is rarely used) and > translate it as archlute, not theorbo. > For CDs that are ori= ginally in English or French > those who rely on these dictionaries= for CD notes > and translations thus keep the term current. &= gt; In addition, musicological papers as well as > Festival booklet= s from major festivals use not > only these dictionaries but also t= he Grove > Dictionary as well, and the Grove defines, > rig= htly of wrongly, erzlaute as archlute. > > So it could be = that there is a difference between > the written use of the word an= d the spoken use of > the word, but of course the word mainly appea= rs in printed material. > > Respectfully, > dt > > > At 01:16 AM 7/10/2009, you wrote: > > > "Jerzy Zak" schrieb: > >= ; > That reminds me the term rather seldom used nowadays: "teorbierte > > > laute" (or close to that spelling), > > > <= br />> > > > It's become part of the history of research.= With Pohlmann (ch. 7), > > Theorbenlaute was synonymous to theo= rbierte Laute. According to his > > definition, Theorbenlauten w= ere lutes with first pegboxes bent back > > and second pegboxes = attached in the direction of the neck. > > > > If I'= m not mistaken, that's rather what we'd call double-headed > > l= utes today. > > > > To complete confusion, he added:= "Theorbierte Lauten werden auch > > Knickhalslauten genannt, di= e auf dem Wirbelkasten links und/oder > > rechts Aufsaetze fuer = die hoechsten und tiefsten Saiten haben." > > Theorbierte Lauten= are also called Knickhalslauten (lutes with > > bent-back necks= ), which have riders on their pegboxes on the left > > and(or on= the right for the highest or lowest strings. > > > >= ; Back then, I stood in awe, completely puzzled by this sophisticated = > > "definition". My, o my. > > > > >= > > the untranslatable to Polish "re-entrant". > > = > > It hasn't been appropiately translated to German, either. Some ha= ve > > tried ruecklaeufig (downward, falling, katabatic, recurre= nt, > > retrogressive), but in German that term evokes notions o= f someone > > running back, and doesn't make clear that the _tun= ing_ is sort of > > "coming back". > > > >= ; Mathias > > > > > > > On 2009-07-09= , at 22:14, Mathias Roesel wrote: > > > > > &= gt; > And btw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archlute is just as >= ; > > > sweeping IMHO, > > > > neglecting differe= nces between the liuto attiorbato, the > > > > arciliuto a= nd the archlute. > > > > > > > > Someone= put a language link to it into > > > > http://de.wikipedi= a.org/wiki/Erzlaute, but that is misleading. > > > > The G= erman term Erzlaute was meant to be generic. > > > > > > > > Mathias > > > > > > > = > "Jerzy Zak" schrieb: > > > &g= t; > > > > > David, > > > > > Than= ks for that. > > > > > > > > > > B= esides, you've writen a very interesting comment on the > > >= > > "latest semiannual online comparison of video hosting sites > > > > > > > > > ". I'm absolutely = > > > > > not qualified to comment on that, but would love t= o read > > > > > other's -- just to remind it's still "= untouched" by other > > > > > pluckers. Perhaps some l
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: Dowland's pavan
&g= t; Another way could be to say that, provided the phrase is used the &= gt; papal way, Solus cum sola is an Elizabethan way of alluding to >= ; intercourse of the sexes (not necessarily sexual intercourse). > > > Solus cum sola non cogitabuntur orare pater noster. &g= t; > > A man and a woman, alone together, will not think of saying th= eir > > > Pater Noster. > Pater might disapprov= e of their liaison! Yepp >B) Mat To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Lute pictures for website...
If you had googled before, you would have found countless numbers of pictures. Try related Wikipedia-articles also. M -Original Message- > Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:42:02 +0100 > Subject: [LUTE] Lute pictures for website... > From: Duncan Midwinter > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Does anyone have any images of lutes that I could use on a website -- > I want to write a brief description of the lute and accompany it with > pics of Renaissance and Baroque lutes. If anyone wants me to link back > to their site I would be more than happy to. > > Regards, > > Duncan. > > -- > -- > [1]http://www.digital-orchestrations.nxserve.net/ > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.digital-orchestrations.nxserve.net/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: French trill - changes in 'baroque' ornamaments
> Eh! =A0 Didn't the appogiatura change (short to long) from the early > 17th through to the late 18thC (see, for example, Donnington pp 197 > -228) Does that mean that any appogiatura occuring during the, say, 1st half of the 17th century is short, or would that be somewhat simplistic assumption, too? >=A0as did the trill (from a lower note start to upper) during much > the same period (Donnington pp 236-259). Does that mean that any trill occuring during the, say, 1st half of the 17th century has a lower note start, or would that be somewhat simplistic assumption, too? >=A0The simplistic assumption > that there was a standard 'baroque trill' =A0(eg Monteclair's form) > throughout this period of great musical change is not borne out by the > contemporary evidence. Glad you said that, finally. So, what's your solution to the initial question (see below)? M. > My question= , however, was if there should be an appogiatura at all. > There is that opening measure e. g. of Bocquet's allemande #7 (Vm7 > 6214 fol. 5) > > .2 =A0 3 =A0 =A01 =A01 1 1 =A01 > ---|-a---#e-e-| > -a-|-a'---r'---a--| > ---|-a| > ---|-a| > ---|--| > ---|--| > . ///a > > If you execute the first comma as an appogiatura, you'll have a ninth > on the opening chord of that piece. Does that seem right to you? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: French trill
> it's amazing to me, indeed, how a baroque piece that starts with a 7th 9th, that is. Sorry! M. > in the opening chord, comes to your mind just like that. > > > > As you asked David, I'll refrain from answering that particular > questio. > > I didn't mean to ask David Tayler exclusively because I prefer open > discussions rather than dialogues, and, second, David is not the only > expert on this subject. > > Mathias > > > > =3DA0But something not so far removed comes to my mind. Some of you > > may > know the famous French work by Jean-F=3DE9ry Rebel, namely "Les elemens" > and its first part, "Le Cahos". Here you can clik and listen to the > first chord of it: > > The French were really full of imagination as far as the harmony > (sonority?) is concerned. > > Best, > > Jurek > [1]=3D http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=3D3D64058=3D > 3 > > References > > 1. > 3D"http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=3D3D640583= " > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: French trill
> Rebe= l's Cahos is not really to the point, since it is a depiction of primordial Chaos. Mathias was questioning a dissonance that was presumably intended for the composer's well-ordered French universe. There isn't much of a difference between an intended depiction and a well-ordered universe, in terms of musical means and ends, no? It would come as a surprise, though, with the opening chord of a dance IMHO. But I may be wrong. Mathias On Jan 29, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Jerzy Zak wrote: > Some of you may know the famous French work by Jean-F=E9ry Rebel, namely > "Les elemens" and its first part, "Le Cahos". Here you can clik and > listen to the first chord of it: > &g= t; The French were really full of imagination as far as the harmony > (sonority?) is concerned. =A0 -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html[2]= http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=3D64058= 3 References 1. 3D"http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html"; 2. 3D"http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=3D640583";
[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: French trill
Dear Jerzy, it's amazing to me, indeed, how a baroque piece that starts with a 7th in the opening chord, comes to your mind just like that. > As you asked David, I'll refrain from answering that particular questio. I didn't mean to ask David Tayler exclusively because I prefer open discussions rather than dialogues, and, second, David is not the only expert on this subject. Mathias >=A0But something not so far removed comes to my mind. Some of you may know the famous French work by Jean-F=E9ry Rebel, namely "Les elemens" and its first part, "Le Cahos". Here you can clik and listen to the first chord of it: The French were really full of imagination as far as the harmony (sonority?) is concerned. Best, Jurek [1]= http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=3D64058= 3 References 1. 3D"http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=3D640583"; To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
