[LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy
You can hear my harmonization of Joy to the Person here http://tinyurl.com/JoytothePerson I used chords that I found for similar pieces in English and Dutch collections of tune arrangements To my ear, the Musica Britannica harmonization does not reflect the shape of the line--Rob is right, it is "serviceable" :) dt dt At 06:09 AM 1/28/2009, you wrote: >Peter: >I agree with Rob. The entirely serviceable harmonization you are >working from is the work of Kenneth Elliott, editor of _Music of >Scotland 1500-1700_, from the Musica Britannica series, and originally >set as a keyboard accompaniment to the orphan melody. The cittern >setting offers sparse alternatives but so does the lute setting from >the Balcarres ms. I've always loved this melody but the text becomes >tiresome after a few stanzas of monumental self-pity. Good luck. >Best wishes, >Ron Andrico >www.mignarda.com >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:04:58 + >> To: n...@pobox.com >> CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > From: luteplay...@googlemail.com >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy >> >> Peter, there is nothing holy about that bass line. Here is a link to >an >> mp3 of the cittern version in the Robert Edwards Commonplace Book, >> Dundee c.1650 [1]http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html >and >> there is a link on the same page to the tablature (in diatonic >tuning). >> >> >> >> Rob MacKillop >> >> 2009/1/27 Peter Nightingale <[2]n...@pobox.com> >> >> Dear All, >> I am in the process of transcribing a version of "Joy to the Person" >> for >> archlute. This link points to what I am working from: >> [3]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf >> I guess the only original part is the melody and that all the rest >> was >> written by Steven Hendricks, whoever that may be. I have a problem >> with >> the A minor cord at the beginning of the penultimate measure of the >> second >> system. Originally, I had that as an E on the 8th course together >> with an >> open third course a, but I do not like the sound of that, and that >> is >> where my wild speculation starts. >> The game I think I should play is that I treat Hendrick's (?) bass >> line >> as holy, apart from octave liberties. If one were to play a >> realization >> of that bass line, I do not think one would play an A minor chord in >> second inversion on the first beat of measure 7, but possibly a >> first >> inversion C major chord would be OK given the stepwise motion of the >> bass. >> (This seems to have the blessing of Coprario, Simpson, Locke and >> Mace, >> which beats a blessing of the the Holy Trinity by one.) >> So far, this is what I have in tab: >> [4]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf >> Obviously, I am way out of my physics depth here, so please >> straighten me >> out. >> Thanks, >> Peter. >> the next auto-quote is: >> In violence we forget who we are. >> (Mary McCarthy) >> /\/\ >> Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 >> Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 >> University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html >> 2. mailto:n...@pobox.com >> 3. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf >> 4. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf >> 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > __ > >Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. >[1]See how. -- > >References > >1. > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208
[LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Ron Andrico wrote: > Peter: > I agree with Rob. The entirely serviceable harmonization you are > working from is the work of Kenneth Elliott, editor of _Music of > Scotland 1500-1700_, from the Musica Britannica series, and originally > set as a keyboard accompaniment to the orphan melody. Thanks! Now at least I know where Hendricks got his inspiration. As I just explained to Rob, I still have a theoretical question. In addition to the fact that my ears tell me that something ain't right, but I a ready to fix my ears if so instructed by those who know more than I do. > The cittern setting offers sparse alternatives but so does the lute > setting from the Balcarres ms. I've always loved this melody but the > text becomes tiresome after a few stanzas of monumental self-pity. Yes, I agree; I know about the three stanzas, the ones the Baltimore Consort have one their CD. They seem to come from From "The Roxburghe Ballads" edited by Charles Hindley. I was considering adding the third one of those, but even that may already be pushing it, unless I add a coffee break of sorts. Thanks again, Peter. > Good luck. > Best wishes, > Ron Andrico > www.mignarda.com > > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:04:58 + > > To: n...@pobox.com > > CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > From: luteplay...@googlemail.com > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy > > > > Peter, there is nothing holy about that bass line. Here is a link to > an > > mp3 of the cittern version in the Robert Edwards Commonplace Book, > > Dundee c.1650 [1]http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html > and > > there is a link on the same page to the tablature (in diatonic > tuning). > > > > > > > > Rob MacKillop > > > > 2009/1/27 Peter Nightingale <[2]n...@pobox.com> > > > > Dear All, > > I am in the process of transcribing a version of "Joy to the Person" > > for > > archlute. This link points to what I am working from: > > [3]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf > > I guess the only original part is the melody and that all the rest > > was > > written by Steven Hendricks, whoever that may be. I have a problem > > with > > the A minor cord at the beginning of the penultimate measure of the > > second > > system. Originally, I had that as an E on the 8th course together > > with an > > open third course a, but I do not like the sound of that, and that > > is > > where my wild speculation starts. > > The game I think I should play is that I treat Hendrick's (?) bass > > line > > as holy, apart from octave liberties. If one were to play a > > realization > > of that bass line, I do not think one would play an A minor chord in > > second inversion on the first beat of measure 7, but possibly a > > first > > inversion C major chord would be OK given the stepwise motion of the > > bass. > > (This seems to have the blessing of Coprario, Simpson, Locke and > > Mace, > > which beats a blessing of the the Holy Trinity by one.) > > So far, this is what I have in tab: > > [4]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf > > Obviously, I am way out of my physics depth here, so please > > straighten me > > out. > > Thanks, > > Peter. > > the next auto-quote is: > > In violence we forget who we are. > > (Mary McCarthy) > > /\/\ > > Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 > > Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 > > University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- > > > > References > > > > 1. http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html > > 2. mailto:n...@pobox.com > > 3. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf > > 4. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf > > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > __ > > Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. > [1]See how. -- > > References > > 1. > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 > the next auto-quote is: The wise man belongs to all countries, for the home of a great soul is the whole world. (Democritus) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Rob MacKillop wrote:
> Peter, there is nothing holy about that bass line.
Thanks, I suspected as much, but it's good to hear it confirmed. I am
still curious about what that infamous chord should be if one pretends
that the bass line is given. After all, I am a theoretical physicist and
hypotheticals are the air I breathe. My admittedly totally inadequate
understanding, based mostly on what Nigel North has to say about continuo
playing, is that a 6/4 chord does not agree with what would have been
expected in the first part of the 17th century, a period derived from my
instrument not necessarily the tune itself.
I am also a practical person, if I can "steal" without modification, that
is a lot less work. From that point of view, changing the middle voices
is easier than changing the bass line, and then the question is should I
change anything at all?
> Here is a link to an mp3 of the cittern version in the Robert Edwards
> Commonplace Book, Dundee c.1650
> http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html and there is a link
> on the same page to the tablature (in diatonic tuning).
I had already found your cittern tablature and mp3; and I like to take the
opportunity to thank you for your generosity in posting all this marvelous
music on your web sites (e.g. http://www.songoftherose.co.uk/); I marvel
at the beauty of your playing.
Wayne drew my attention to yet another version of this tune. It's from
in the Balcarres ms
(http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tablature.cgi?Balcarres/031_Joy.pdf)
All of this tablature sounds really interesting with Renaissance tuning,
which is all I have. {Sigh!}
Peter.
>
> Rob MacKillop
>
> 2009/1/27 Peter Nightingale
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I am in the process of transcribing a version of "Joy to the Person" for
>> archlute. This link points to what I am working from:
>> http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf
>>
>> I guess the only original part is the melody and that all the rest was
>> written by Steven Hendricks, whoever that may be. I have a problem with
>> the A minor cord at the beginning of the penultimate measure of the second
>> system. Originally, I had that as an E on the 8th course together with an
>> open third course a, but I do not like the sound of that, and that is
>> where my wild speculation starts.
>>
>> The game I think I should play is that I treat Hendrick's (?) bass line
>> as holy, apart from octave liberties. If one were to play a realization
>> of that bass line, I do not think one would play an A minor chord in
>> second inversion on the first beat of measure 7, but possibly a first
>> inversion C major chord would be OK given the stepwise motion of the bass.
>> (This seems to have the blessing of Coprario, Simpson, Locke and Mace,
>> which beats a blessing of the the Holy Trinity by one.)
>>
>> So far, this is what I have in tab:
>> http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf
>>
>> Obviously, I am way out of my physics depth here, so please straighten me
>> out.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Peter.
>>
>> the next auto-quote is:
>> In violence we forget who we are.
>> (Mary McCarthy)
>> /\/\
>> Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882
>> Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380
>> University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
the next auto-quote is:
The peace I am thinking of is the dance of an open
mind when it engages an equally open one.
(Toni Morrisson)
/\/\
Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882
Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380
University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881
[LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy
Peter: I agree with Rob. The entirely serviceable harmonization you are working from is the work of Kenneth Elliott, editor of _Music of Scotland 1500-1700_, from the Musica Britannica series, and originally set as a keyboard accompaniment to the orphan melody. The cittern setting offers sparse alternatives but so does the lute setting from the Balcarres ms. I've always loved this melody but the text becomes tiresome after a few stanzas of monumental self-pity. Good luck. Best wishes, Ron Andrico www.mignarda.com > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:04:58 + > To: n...@pobox.com > CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: luteplay...@googlemail.com > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy > > Peter, there is nothing holy about that bass line. Here is a link to an > mp3 of the cittern version in the Robert Edwards Commonplace Book, > Dundee c.1650 [1]http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html and > there is a link on the same page to the tablature (in diatonic tuning). > > > > Rob MacKillop > > 2009/1/27 Peter Nightingale <[2]n...@pobox.com> > > Dear All, > I am in the process of transcribing a version of "Joy to the Person" > for > archlute. This link points to what I am working from: > [3]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf > I guess the only original part is the melody and that all the rest > was > written by Steven Hendricks, whoever that may be. I have a problem > with > the A minor cord at the beginning of the penultimate measure of the > second > system. Originally, I had that as an E on the 8th course together > with an > open third course a, but I do not like the sound of that, and that > is > where my wild speculation starts. > The game I think I should play is that I treat Hendrick's (?) bass > line > as holy, apart from octave liberties. If one were to play a > realization > of that bass line, I do not think one would play an A minor chord in > second inversion on the first beat of measure 7, but possibly a > first > inversion C major chord would be OK given the stepwise motion of the > bass. > (This seems to have the blessing of Coprario, Simpson, Locke and > Mace, > which beats a blessing of the the Holy Trinity by one.) > So far, this is what I have in tab: > [4]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf > Obviously, I am way out of my physics depth here, so please > straighten me > out. > Thanks, > Peter. > the next auto-quote is: > In violence we forget who we are. > (Mary McCarthy) > /\/\ > Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 > Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 > University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 > To get on or off this list see list information at > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html > 2. mailto:n...@pobox.com > 3. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf > 4. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > __ Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. [1]See how. -- References 1. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208
[LUTE] Re: Fun with Joy
Peter, there is nothing holy about that bass line. Here is a link to an mp3 of the cittern version in the Robert Edwards Commonplace Book, Dundee c.1650 [1]http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html and there is a link on the same page to the tablature (in diatonic tuning). Rob MacKillop 2009/1/27 Peter Nightingale <[2]n...@pobox.com> Dear All, I am in the process of transcribing a version of "Joy to the Person" for archlute. This link points to what I am working from: [3]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf I guess the only original part is the melody and that all the rest was written by Steven Hendricks, whoever that may be. I have a problem with the A minor cord at the beginning of the penultimate measure of the second system. Originally, I had that as an E on the 8th course together with an open third course a, but I do not like the sound of that, and that is where my wild speculation starts. The game I think I should play is that I treat Hendrick's (?) bass line as holy, apart from octave liberties. If one were to play a realization of that bass line, I do not think one would play an A minor chord in second inversion on the first beat of measure 7, but possibly a first inversion C major chord would be OK given the stepwise motion of the bass. (This seems to have the blessing of Coprario, Simpson, Locke and Mace, which beats a blessing of the the Holy Trinity by one.) So far, this is what I have in tab: [4]http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf Obviously, I am way out of my physics depth here, so please straighten me out. Thanks, Peter. the next auto-quote is: In violence we forget who we are. (Mary McCarthy) /\/\ Peter Nightingale Telephone (401) 874-5882 Department of Physics, East Hall Fax (401) 874-2380 University of Rhode Island Kingston, RI 02881 To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://cittern.theaterofmusic.com/audio/index.html 2. mailto:n...@pobox.com 3. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joy_to.pdf 4. http://www.phys.uri.edu/~nigh/Joy/joytab.pdf 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
