[LUTE] Re: Right hand fingerings in Dowland
I may be looked on as wrong here, but here is something that might help you get things sorted out in your head. Use the thumb and index finger in almost the same way you would use a pick if you were playing a guitar with a plectrum. The strong beat is played with a down stroke on the thumb and the weak return with an upstroke with the index finger. The real trick here is to make sure you do not rotate your wrist but keep it parallel to the strings. As soon as you start rotating you are going to miss notes miss a string in a course and or pull up on the course causing it to rattle against the finger board. The tendency for some is to play the base notes with the thumb only which makes for some real problems when some of the passages call for rapid notes in those registers; something difficult to do with the thumb only and not sound thunky. I have found that a lot of Milano requires this technique---for me. As to the Earl of Essex, there are some tricky parts in this piece that require a good deal of right hand fudging. It is one of those cross-over pieces where things seem to be evolving between strict thumb index attack and fingered passages more like guitar technique. A lot of Dowland seems to work this way. - Original Message - From: nedma...@aol.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: [LUTE] Right hand fingerings in Dowland As I work on The Right Honorable Robert, Earl of Essex, His Galliard (42a. in Diana Poulton's edition of Dowland's works) - and watch some players on youtube - it occurs to me that not only do I have to work on thumb-under technique, but also to rethink the use of fingers in playing passages that I used to use the thumb in quite a bit. The question I have is, how much do we know about Dowland's right hand technique, and how much do we just try to arrive at something that works? For example, in the fourth measure of the second section of the Earl of Essex Galliard, are all the notes on the third string and up covered by the fingers or would the thumb play a part? And in the final section, four and three measures from the end, how active would the thumb be, or is it mostly finger work? Are there editions of Dowland's music where fingerings are more extensively notated? (I notice in the same Poulton edition in 96. An Almand, right hand fingerings are much more in evidence - as are ornaments). Ned __ Looking for love this summer? [1]Find it now on AOL Personals. -- References 1. http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0003 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Right hand fingerings in Dowland
Dear Ned, It is likely that most of what we think of as Dowland's solo lute music was composed before 1600 (the evidence somes from dedications to patrons, probable dates of manuscript sources, and so on). This is also about the time that the lute underwent a rapid expansion from six to nine courses (the first printed book requiring nine courses being Francisque, 1600), and also about the same time that players were switching from thumb-in to thumb-out. The Stobaeus MS actually names Dowland as one of the players who started TI and changed to TO. Some very interesting MS sources (e.g. Dowland's fancy no.1 in the ML lute book) document this change very nicely - when the treble has fast notes but there is not much happening in the bass, the fingering dots indicate thumb and index, but as soon as the bass becomes more active, the thumb stays down in the bass and the treble is played with the middle and index fingers. Also, the very fast cadential ornaments are still played with the thumb and index, though presumably by this stage the hand position is TO rather than TI. The version of the Earl of Essex Galliard you mention was published in 1610, so we would expect TO, but again the fastest notes would still be played with thumb and index. If you are trying to develop a TI technique, there's no harm in playing just about everything thumb-index, as Dowland would probably have done himself in 1590, if not in 1610. For what it's worth, I am increasingly of the opinion that the Dowland pieces in VLL are Robert's versions, and if we are really interested in John's originals (whatever that might mean in this context) we have to look at earlier manuscript sources. Diana Poulton assumed that the VLL versions represented John's final revisions of some of his most famous pieces, but even if that were true the Dowlands were sufficiently plagued by printer's errors that these versions are not to be approached uncritically. Best wishes, Martin nedma...@aol.com wrote: As I work on The Right Honorable Robert, Earl of Essex, His Galliard (42a. in Diana Poulton's edition of Dowland's works) - and watch some players on youtube - it occurs to me that not only do I have to work on thumb-under technique, but also to rethink the use of fingers in playing passages that I used to use the thumb in quite a bit. The question I have is, how much do we know about Dowland's right hand technique, and how much do we just try to arrive at something that works? For example, in the fourth measure of the second section of the Earl of Essex Galliard, are all the notes on the third string and up covered by the fingers or would the thumb play a part? And in the final section, four and three measures from the end, how active would the thumb be, or is it mostly finger work? Are there editions of Dowland's music where fingerings are more extensively notated? (I notice in the same Poulton edition in 96. An Almand, right hand fingerings are much more in evidence - as are ornaments). Ned __ Looking for love this summer? [1]Find it now on AOL Personals. -- References 1. http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0003 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Right hand fingerings in Dowland
There's no evidence of the way Dowland used the RH, but we can assume he would have been able to do play any particular passage in several different ways. Martin is absolutely correct that the versions in Varietie are Robert's. There are very few holograph sources for Dowland--the Farewell Fancy is the most intriguing one; it shows a kind of lilting, harmonic ornamentation that is very different from the division style of Batchelar. dt It is likely that most of what we think of as Dowland's solo lute music was composed before 1600 (the evidence somes from dedications to patrons, probable dates of manuscript sources, and so on). This is also about the time that the lute underwent a rapid expansion from six to nine courses (the first printed book requiring nine courses being Francisque, 1600), and also about the same time that players were switching from thumb-in to thumb-out. The Stobaeus MS actually names Dowland as one of the players who started TI and changed to TO. Some very interesting MS sources (e.g. Dowland's fancy no.1 in the ML lute book) document this change very nicely - when the treble has fast notes but there is not much happening in the bass, the fingering dots indicate thumb and index, but as soon as the bass becomes more active, the thumb stays down in the bass and the treble is played with the middle and index fingers. Also, the very fast cadential ornaments are still played with the thumb and index, though presumably by this stage the hand position is TO rather than TI. The version of the Earl of Essex Galliard you mention was published in 1610, so we would expect TO, but again the fastest notes would still be played with thumb and index. If you are trying to develop a TI technique, there's no harm in playing just about everything thumb-index, as Dowland would probably have done himself in 1590, if not in 1610. For what it's worth, I am increasingly of the opinion that the Dowland pieces in VLL are Robert's versions, and if we are really interested in John's originals (whatever that might mean in this context) we have to look at earlier manuscript sources. Diana Poulton assumed that the VLL versions represented John's final revisions of some of his most famous pieces, but even if that were true the Dowlands were sufficiently plagued by printer's errors that these versions are not to be approached uncritically. Best wishes, Martin nedma...@aol.com wrote: As I work on The Right Honorable Robert, Earl of Essex, His Galliard (42a. in Diana Poulton's edition of Dowland's works) - and watch some players on youtube - it occurs to me that not only do I have to work on thumb-under technique, but also to rethink the use of fingers in playing passages that I used to use the thumb in quite a bit. The question I have is, how much do we know about Dowland's right hand technique, and how much do we just try to arrive at something that works? For example, in the fourth measure of the second section of the Earl of Essex Galliard, are all the notes on the third string and up covered by the fingers or would the thumb play a part? And in the final section, four and three measures from the end, how active would the thumb be, or is it mostly finger work? Are there editions of Dowland's music where fingerings are more extensively notated? (I notice in the same Poulton edition in 96. An Almand, right hand fingerings are much more in evidence - as are ornaments). Ned __ Looking for love this summer? [1]Find it now on AOL Personals. -- References 1. http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0003 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
