[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
Try to turn the wound string around (tail to head). If that does not work - it is wounded indeed! and you need the new string. Of course, one can spend some time with a micrometer measuring the string, looking for the twisted part of it, and hoping it is not in the middle of the string. But just turning it around very often works. On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:07:59 +0200 Ivo Jancík iv...@trabant.cz wrote: Hello everybody. I have a tuning problem with my lute, which I don't know how to solve. I have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in tune, but the wounded one gets out of tune (sounds significantly higher, than it should). Sliding the frets won't help, as the other strings are in tune. Could you please kindly advice? Many thanks. Kind regards, Ivo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
Dear All, Yes, I agree, try turning the string round. What happens is the string gets worn thinner, especially around the second fret where it gets fingered more often than anywhere else. Gut string users should note that this happens with gut strings as well, so turning the string round is a good first move, followed by that expensive replacement With any kind of string, if you have enough spare length you might be able to arrange for the most worn part of the string to be at or beyond the bridge rather than in the sounding length of the string. Best wishes, Martin alexander wrote: Try to turn the wound string around (tail to head). If that does not work - it is wounded indeed! and you need the new string. Of course, one can spend some time with a micrometer measuring the string, looking for the twisted part of it, and hoping it is not in the middle of the string. But just turning it around very often works. On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:07:59 +0200 Ivo Jancík iv...@trabant.cz wrote: Hello everybody. I have a tuning problem with my lute, which I don't know how to solve. I have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in tune, but the wounded one gets out of tune (sounds significantly higher, than it should). Sliding the frets won't help, as the other strings are in tune. Could you please kindly advice? Many thanks. Kind regards, Ivo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009, Ivo Jancík iv...@trabant.cz said: Hello everybody. I have a tuning problem with my lute, which I don't know how to solve. I have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in tune, but the wounded one gets out of tune (sounds significantly higher, than it should). Begin with a sanity check, if this is a new problem showing up on an old instrument, what has changed? new strings? are they mounted reasonably? you can adjust some issues in action height by adjusting the loop at the bridge. Sometimes a string wont be set properly in its nut groove. You should measure and write down the height of the action near the body; if this changes more than a mm you may have a physical problem needing repair. Stopping any string raises its tension slightly, keeping the action low mitigates this; sound to me as if your octave is either positioned too high or sized so it comes to pitch at too high a tension. Are you certain this is the only affected string? Could be the frets are not as well graduated as they should be, could be the neck is out of alignment and the action is high at higher frets. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
Hi All, I've got exactly the same problem: same kind of lute, same tuning, same course, same string (which is actually a brand new one)... I wonder if this is not a string problem. Nicolás -Mensaje original- De: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] En nombre de Ivo Jancík Enviado el: jueves, 16 de julio de 2009 04:08 Para: Lute List Asunto: [LUTE] Tuning issue Hello everybody. I have a tuning problem with my lute, which I don't know how to solve. I have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in tune, but the wounded one gets out of tune (sounds significantly higher, than it should). Sliding the frets won't help, as the other strings are in tune. Could you please kindly advice? Many thanks. Kind regards, Ivo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
Different take on the issue. If you're using a metal-wound (rich in harmonics) on the 5th course of an 8-course lute, there is no reason whatsoever to pair that with an octave string (there only to enrich a dull (gut) bass string with extra harmonics). So, how about replacing the octave string with another metal-wound? When still using metal-wounds on my 8-course, this was my set-up. No octave string on the 6th course either, btw. David have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
And the double metal wounds struck together seem to reinforce themselves so they ring f-o-r--e--v---ah ! Uuuwwaawaaaoooo, baby! We 'stuck-in-the-rennaissance-touchy-feely-ropey-gut-types' just have to go to longer lutes to get that kind of sustain-lovin' action. Sean On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:11 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: Different take on the issue. If you're using a metal-wound (rich in harmonics) on the 5th course of an 8-course lute, there is no reason whatsoever to pair that with an octave string (there only to enrich a dull (gut) bass string with extra harmonics). So, how about replacing the octave string with another metal-wound? When still using metal-wounds on my 8-course, this was my set-up. No octave string on the 6th course either, btw. David have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
Here's another 8 course (all gut) with the out-of-tune fretted 5th (and, once, 6th) course. Took the advice of reversing the string (in this case, the fundamental), and -- presto! no problem. Saved me $20 on a pistoy gut string. The old one had gone false, but in away that reversal eliminated, or at least reduced, the problem. I used a trick I learned from Ed Martin to determine falsity: pluck the string under strobe lighting conditions (he thought a tv would do it, but I used a fluorescent tube light with a sheet of dark colored paper under the strings). The true strings will had a very regular wave form to them, while the false rascal had a lot of smaller wavies that shimmied up and down the string--it looked snaky (hard to explain, best to see it happen). Thanks to ?? for the tip on reversing the string!! Regards, Leonard Williams /[ ] / \ | * | \_=_/ On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:11 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: Different take on the issue. If you're using a metal-wound (rich in harmonics) on the 5th course of an 8-course lute, there is no reason whatsoever to pair that with an octave string (there only to enrich a dull (gut) bass string with extra harmonics). So, how about replacing the octave string with another metal-wound? When still using metal-wounds on my 8-course, this was my set-up. No octave string on the 6th course either, btw. David have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
That's a good trick, Leonard, and a real dollar saver. And the strobe could be useful. On a good string in natural light it *should* be difficult to pick out the wavy line of a false string. Still I wonder if the strobe might give you the 'false positive' of a bad string. Obviously I should do the check myself. Another trick is to never cut the bass fundamental whatever its length and wrap the remainder around the pegbox (I saw Jacob H. do this years ago on his 6-c). Be sure that most of the peg grip comes from a few wraps and not the knot/fold/kink through the peghole. When it comes time to reposition the string hang it w/ a slight weight to undo the fold (it's inevitable) for a few days taking care not to let it unwind. I do this w/ the 5th and 6th courses and can get years out of a good bass string. I have to admit, I've always admired the lute world for all its little tricks that we lutenists always get to learn. We can imagine many of them were commonplace but we'll never know for sure which ones ;^) Sean On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Leonard Williams wrote: Here's another 8 course (all gut) with the out-of-tune fretted 5th (and, once, 6th) course. Took the advice of reversing the string (in this case, the fundamental), and -- presto! no problem. Saved me $20 on a pistoy gut string. The old one had gone false, but in away that reversal eliminated, or at least reduced, the problem. I used a trick I learned from Ed Martin to determine falsity: pluck the string under strobe lighting conditions (he thought a tv would do it, but I used a fluorescent tube light with a sheet of dark colored paper under the strings). The true strings will had a very regular wave form to them, while the false rascal had a lot of smaller wavies that shimmied up and down the string--it looked snaky (hard to explain, best to see it happen). Thanks to ?? for the tip on reversing the string!! Regards, Leonard Williams /[ ] / \ | * | \_=_/ On Jul 16, 2009, at 10:11 AM, David van Ooijen wrote: Different take on the issue. If you're using a metal-wound (rich in harmonics) on the 5th course of an 8-course lute, there is no reason whatsoever to pair that with an octave string (there only to enrich a dull (gut) bass string with extra harmonics). So, how about replacing the octave string with another metal-wound? When still using metal-wounds on my 8-course, this was my set-up. No octave string on the 6th course either, btw. David have got 8-course lute, G-tuning, 572 mm bridge to nut. My fifth course (C) consists of Nylgut 56 and wounded NG 112D (octave difference). After fine tuning the untouched course (both in tune, c+C), the problem appears when playing the course on 2nd, 3rd etc fret. The unwounded string remains in -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tuning issue
One thing about gut strings when using a 4th course, or larger diameter, all one has to do is to stick the string through the peg hole. None does not have to make a knot kink it. ed At 06:43 PM 7/16/2009, Sean Smith wrote: Another trick is to never cut the bass fundamental whatever its length and wrap the remainder around the pegbox (I saw Jacob H. do this years ago on his 6-c). Be sure that most of the peg grip comes from a few wraps and not the knot/fold/kink through the peghole. When it comes time to reposition the string hang it w/ a slight weight to undo the fold (it's inevitable) for a few days taking care not to let it unwind. Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
