[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
- Original Message - From: jandaparker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:53 PM Subject: Fw: [LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap - Original Message - From: jandaparker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap Hello, My name is Jim Parker. I have been reading messages on the list for a month or so, but have not posted (I think they call that lurking, although that sounds a little creepy to me so I'll just say quietly observing from the sidelines). I have enjoyed reading the posts and have learned much from following the different threads. I would like to ask more about straps, if you all don't mind helping another beginner. I began playing in January and cannot seem to get comfortable holding my lute. The best position for me has been crossing my left leg over the right, but this isn't comfortable for long periods of time, so I would like to try a strap. My questions are: 1) what length should a strap be for an 8 course (62 cm) lute? 2) where can I get a strap that will fit (will the local guitar shop have one)? 3) Will a guitar strap be the correct length? and 4) what is the best way to attach the strap? I have two strap buttons on my lute; one on each end of the body, but it seems that a lot of players tie their straps to the pegbox. Is one way better than the other? Thanks up front for any advice you send my way. Jim - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Caroline Usher [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap Thank you Caroline I have indeed adopted a leather belt in natural leather so I don't seem to be out of order here, but my way of tying it (as I explain to Sean) has received some comment . If I understand you correctly, there are paintings showing lute straps, I will look more closely. There is a strap maker here in Paris who makes wide straps from padded woven natural silk, on which he makes subtle gold markings. They look very beautiful, but I have not tried them myself. I had not thought of the possibility of varying the colours according to mood and dress. I seem to remember that there was a French watch maker who sold his watches with a variety of straps, for that reason. Perhaps, lute makers could similarly cater for the fashion conscious lutist . No, as you say, it is indeed the music on which we should focus, but I did find the person wearing this new woven-silk lute-strap extremely elegant. Regards Anthony Le 14 mai 07 à 17:55, Caroline Usher a écrit : Anthony Hind wrote: On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? Not if you know when to cease and desist. It should be pretty obvious when a peg is really jammed and needs to be tapped out, or allowed to dry out in lower humidity. If your pegs are in good working condition there should be no danger. The peg-turner helps you to turn the peg more smoothly. I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? Search the archives of this list. There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Yes. Remember that the clothing worn in the heyday of the lute was very different from ours. That makes a big difference. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. That works for you and probably most men. I find that since my shoulders are narrower and more rounded, I have to attach the strap close to the neck or it slips off my shoulder. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? De gustibus non disputandum. Wider is better, as is non-slippery. You want something that will grip your back. Remember that how you look does affect how people perceive you. A psychedelic strap may remind you of your hard-rockin' college days and comment ironically the instrument you now favor, but would be out of place in the Collegium concert. Black or natural leather is never out of place. When I play in costume I have a strap that matches my dress. BTW my costume is in subdued colors with low contrast--in other words it's not a stage
[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
I tried a piece of cling film. It was alright as far as lightness and contact, at least you could feel the sound-board through it. I think that may be important, but it tends to make your finger too hot and also very humid. I thought of using a mini chamois leather, or micro- pore, glove; but then you will no longer feel the sound-board. That is the problem that I think you may have with the rubber glovelet. Also, you wouldn't want anything that can damp resonances at all. Are there any ideas about a material which is ultra-thin and breathable that might play this role? On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Some lutists seem to wear them extremely tight, so that the lute is held extremely high and it remains quite stable. Also as a result of the high position the lute is nearer the players ears. Others seem to wear them longer, but stabilize the lute with a knee, or use a second strap on which they sit. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? If there is any trace of straps in earlier use, would one of these methods be more authentic? At present, I am going for the tighter high lute position with a widish strap, simply because I don't want to carry about secondary straps or foot-stools. Anthony Le 14 mai 07 à 06:16, stephen arndt a écrit : I had trouble with the little finger spot turning green as well and came up with a solution that some might not like but that I don't mind at all. Most office supply stores sell rubber finger tips for people whose work requires them to leaf through stacks of paper. I bought a box of small sized ones and wear one on my little finger. It prevents the soundboard from discoloring. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: John Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:53 AM Subject: [LUTE] Novice question - cleaning a soundboard. Hi - this is SO basic that I'm ashamed to be asking... but here goes. My little student lute has an unvarnished spruce soundboard. I wash my hands before playing, but because spruce is so light in colour and there's no varnish to repel smudges, I can already see that it might eventually end up looking pretty grubby. Am I right in thinking that taking a damp cloth to the thin unvarnished wood would not be a good idea? Failing that, is there any recommended cleaning method, or should I just come to regard some smudges as part of the instrument's 'character'? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
Anthony Hind wrote: On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? Not if you know when to cease and desist. It should be pretty obvious when a peg is really jammed and needs to be tapped out, or allowed to dry out in lower humidity. If your pegs are in good working condition there should be no danger. The peg-turner helps you to turn the peg more smoothly. I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? Search the archives of this list. There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Yes. Remember that the clothing worn in the heyday of the lute was very different from ours. That makes a big difference. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. That works for you and probably most men. I find that since my shoulders are narrower and more rounded, I have to attach the strap close to the neck or it slips off my shoulder. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? De gustibus non disputandum. Wider is better, as is non-slippery. You want something that will grip your back. Remember that how you look does affect how people perceive you. A psychedelic strap may remind you of your hard-rockin' college days and comment ironically the instrument you now favor, but would be out of place in the Collegium concert. Black or natural leather is never out of place. When I play in costume I have a strap that matches my dress. BTW my costume is in subdued colors with low contrast--in other words it's not a stage costume with lots of stripes, gold braid etc. The idea is to focus on the music after all. The costume helps set the mood. Caroline -- Caroline Usher, Dept. of Biology Box 90338 Durham NC 27708 613-8155, fax 660-7293 So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for who among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. - Machiavelli To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
I've made my peace with straps and often play standing now. One thing that helps is to use a wide belt that has ties. For these I scavange used clothing stores. On the peg box end of the strap I have strings (or thongs) that go to both ends of the pegbox, ie, the 1st and 6th courses as well as the far end (3rd and 4th course pegs). With a little wrapping or string adjustment I get a VERY stable position. The lute never rolls down or up. regards, Sean Caroline Usher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony Hind wrote: On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? Not if you know when to cease and desist. It should be pretty obvious when a peg is really jammed and needs to be tapped out, or allowed to dry out in lower humidity. If your pegs are in good working condition there should be no danger. The peg-turner helps you to turn the peg more smoothly. I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? Search the archives of this list. There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Yes. Remember that the clothing worn in the heyday of the lute was very different from ours. That makes a big difference. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. That works for you and probably most men. I find that since my shoulders are narrower and more rounded, I have to attach the strap close to the neck or it slips off my shoulder. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? De gustibus non disputandum. Wider is better, as is non-slippery. You want something that will grip your back. Remember that how you look does affect how people perceive you. A psychedelic strap may remind you of your hard-rockin' college days and comment ironically the instrument you now favor, but would be out of place in the Collegium concert. Black or natural leather is never out of place. When I play in costume I have a strap that matches my dress. BTW my costume is in subdued colors with low contrast--in other words it's not a stage costume with lots of stripes, gold braid etc. The idea is to focus on the music after all. The costume helps set the mood. Caroline -- Caroline Usher, Dept. of Biology Box 90338 Durham NC 27708 613-8155, fax 660-7293 So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for who among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. - Machiavelli To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
Thanks Sean I will try this more complex system for tying it to the peg-box. In fact, at the moment I am using a slightly unorthodox system. I have a long and wide leather belt (which is made of fairly flexible leather, that I reinforced at my shoulders), and this is tied to the 5th and 8th strings by thongs that are attached before the end of the belt . I then wrap the end of the belt round the end of the peg-box. I feared this might damp the sound, but I don't think so; and it does seem to prevent the lute from rolling. However, it has received some rude remarks from other lutists. I will probably press on regardless. Regards Anthony Le 14 mai 07 à 18:33, Sean Smith a écrit : I've made my peace with straps and often play standing now. One thing that helps is to use a wide belt that has ties. For these I scavange used clothing stores. On the peg box end of the strap I have strings (or thongs) that go to both ends of the pegbox, ie, the 1st and 6th courses as well as the far end (3rd and 4th course pegs). With a little wrapping or string adjustment I get a VERY stable position. The lute never rolls down or up. regards, Sean Caroline Usher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony Hind wrote: On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? Not if you know when to cease and desist. It should be pretty obvious when a peg is really jammed and needs to be tapped out, or allowed to dry out in lower humidity. If your pegs are in good working condition there should be no danger. The peg-turner helps you to turn the peg more smoothly. I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? Search the archives of this list. There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Yes. Remember that the clothing worn in the heyday of the lute was very different from ours. That makes a big difference. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. That works for you and probably most men. I find that since my shoulders are narrower and more rounded, I have to attach the strap close to the neck or it slips off my shoulder. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? De gustibus non disputandum. Wider is better, as is non-slippery. You want something that will grip your back. Remember that how you look does affect how people perceive you. A psychedelic strap may remind you of your hard-rockin' college days and comment ironically the instrument you now favor, but would be out of place in the Collegium concert. Black or natural leather is never out of place. When I play in costume I have a strap that matches my dress. BTW my costume is in subdued colors with low contrast--in other words it's not a stage costume with lots of stripes, gold braid etc. The idea is to focus on the music after all. The costume helps set the mood. Caroline -- Caroline Usher, Dept. of Biology Box 90338 Durham NC 27708 613-8155, fax 660-7293 So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for who among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. - Machiavelli To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
I've seen a several Ren lute players holding their instruments by sitting with their left ankle resting on their right knee - this does away with the necessity for a strap but in my advanced years I can't hold this position comfortably for more than a few measures. There's always the historically documented position of sitting at a table with the front edge of the table propping the lute. Does anyone play like this now? Perhaps tables were smaller in those days... Andrew On 14 May 2007, at 17:46, Anthony Hind wrote: Thanks Sean I will try this more complex system for tying it to the peg-box. In fact, at the moment I am using a slightly unorthodox system. I have a long and wide leather belt (which is made of fairly flexible leather, that I reinforced at my shoulders), and this is tied to the 5th and 8th strings by thongs that are attached before the end of the belt . I then wrap the end of the belt round the end of the peg-box. I feared this might damp the sound, but I don't think so; and it does seem to prevent the lute from rolling. However, it has received some rude remarks from other lutists. I will probably press on regardless. Regards Anthony Le 14 mai 07 à 18:33, Sean Smith a écrit : I've made my peace with straps and often play standing now. One thing that helps is to use a wide belt that has ties. For these I scavange used clothing stores. On the peg box end of the strap I have strings (or thongs) that go to both ends of the pegbox, ie, the 1st and 6th courses as well as the far end (3rd and 4th course pegs). With a little wrapping or string adjustment I get a VERY stable position. The lute never rolls down or up. regards, Sean Caroline Usher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony Hind wrote: On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? Not if you know when to cease and desist. It should be pretty obvious when a peg is really jammed and needs to be tapped out, or allowed to dry out in lower humidity. If your pegs are in good working condition there should be no danger. The peg-turner helps you to turn the peg more smoothly. I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? Search the archives of this list. There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Yes. Remember that the clothing worn in the heyday of the lute was very different from ours. That makes a big difference. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. That works for you and probably most men. I find that since my shoulders are narrower and more rounded, I have to attach the strap close to the neck or it slips off my shoulder. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? De gustibus non disputandum. Wider is better, as is non-slippery. You want something that will grip your back. Remember that how you look does affect how people perceive you. A psychedelic strap may remind you of your hard-rockin' college days and comment ironically the instrument you now favor, but would be out of place in the Collegium concert. Black or natural leather is never out of place. When I play in costume I have a strap that matches my dress. BTW my costume is in subdued colors with low contrast--in other words it's not a stage costume with lots of stripes, gold braid etc. The idea is to focus on the music after all. The costume helps set the mood. Caroline -- Caroline Usher, Dept. of Biology Box 90338 Durham NC 27708 613-8155, fax 660-7293 So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for who among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. - Machiavelli To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
Thank you Caroline I have indeed adopted a leather belt in natural leather so I don't seem to be out of order here, but my way of tying it (as I explain to Sean) has received some comment If I understand you correctly, there are paintings showing lute straps, I will look more closely. There is a strap maker here in Paris who makes wide straps from padded woven natural silk, on which he makes subtle gold markings. They look very beautiful, but I have not tried them myself. I had not thought of the possibility of varying the colours according to mood and dress. I seem to remember that there was a French watch maker who sold his watches with a variety of straps, for that reason. Perhaps, lute makers could similarly cater for the fashion conscious lutist No, as you say, it is indeed the music on which we should focus, but I did find the person wearing this new woven-silk lute-strap extremely elegant. Regards Anthony Le 14 mai 07 à 17:55, Caroline Usher a écrit : Anthony Hind wrote: On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? Not if you know when to cease and desist. It should be pretty obvious when a peg is really jammed and needs to be tapped out, or allowed to dry out in lower humidity. If your pegs are in good working condition there should be no danger. The peg-turner helps you to turn the peg more smoothly. I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? Search the archives of this list. There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Yes. Remember that the clothing worn in the heyday of the lute was very different from ours. That makes a big difference. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. That works for you and probably most men. I find that since my shoulders are narrower and more rounded, I have to attach the strap close to the neck or it slips off my shoulder. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? De gustibus non disputandum. Wider is better, as is non-slippery. You want something that will grip your back. Remember that how you look does affect how people perceive you. A psychedelic strap may remind you of your hard-rockin' college days and comment ironically the instrument you now favor, but would be out of place in the Collegium concert. Black or natural leather is never out of place. When I play in costume I have a strap that matches my dress. BTW my costume is in subdued colors with low contrast--in other words it's not a stage costume with lots of stripes, gold braid etc. The idea is to focus on the music after all. The costume helps set the mood. Caroline -- Caroline Usher, Dept. of Biology Box 90338 Durham NC 27708 613-8155, fax 660-7293 So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for who among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. - Machiavelli To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning a soundboard + Strap
Le 14 mai 07 à 18:59, Andrew Gibbs a écrit : I've seen a several Ren lute players holding their instruments by sitting with their left ankle resting on their right knee - this does away with the necessity for a strap but in my advanced years I can't hold this position comfortably for more than a few measures. There's always the historically documented position of sitting at a table with the front edge of the table propping the lute. Does anyone play like this now? Perhaps tables were smaller in those days... I tried this. In fact I put the lute on the table, and I noticed that the table seemed to allow the resonances to develop. This might be similar to corner horn speakers whose opening rely on the walls to give them their full development. Regards Anthony Andrew On 14 May 2007, at 17:46, Anthony Hind wrote: Thanks Sean I will try this more complex system for tying it to the peg-box. In fact, at the moment I am using a slightly unorthodox system. I have a long and wide leather belt (which is made of fairly flexible leather, that I reinforced at my shoulders), and this is tied to the 5th and 8th strings by thongs that are attached before the end of the belt . I then wrap the end of the belt round the end of the peg-box. I feared this might damp the sound, but I don't think so; and it does seem to prevent the lute from rolling. However, it has received some rude remarks from other lutists. I will probably press on regardless. Regards Anthony Le 14 mai 07 à 18:33, Sean Smith a écrit : I've made my peace with straps and often play standing now. One thing that helps is to use a wide belt that has ties. For these I scavange used clothing stores. On the peg box end of the strap I have strings (or thongs) that go to both ends of the pegbox, ie, the 1st and 6th courses as well as the far end (3rd and 4th course pegs). With a little wrapping or string adjustment I get a VERY stable position. The lute never rolls down or up. regards, Sean Caroline Usher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony Hind wrote: On two slightly different topics. I have seen lutists using a wooden tool to turn pegs. I wouldn't mind buying one of these myself; however, is there not a risk of breaking a peg or even the peg-box? Not if you know when to cease and desist. It should be pretty obvious when a peg is really jammed and needs to be tapped out, or allowed to dry out in lower humidity. If your pegs are in good working condition there should be no danger. The peg-turner helps you to turn the peg more smoothly. I have not noticed any paintings of lute players showing them with a lute strap, and yet most players use a strap today. Might these be absent from paintings, but nevertheless have been used when the lutist actually played? Are there any signs on the old lutes themselves that straps were indeed used? Search the archives of this list. There seem to be many ways of wearing these straps. Yes. Remember that the clothing worn in the heyday of the lute was very different from ours. That makes a big difference. Would either of these methods be beneficial or tend to inhibit resonance? I have noticed that the lute remains most stable when the strap is tied nearer the extremity of the peg-box. That works for you and probably most men. I find that since my shoulders are narrower and more rounded, I have to attach the strap close to the neck or it slips off my shoulder. Furthermore, some people use colourful cloth material, while others use a very solid guitar-strap. Is it just the case of 'use what works for you, or are there serious reasons for adopting a particular method? De gustibus non disputandum. Wider is better, as is non-slippery. You want something that will grip your back. Remember that how you look does affect how people perceive you. A psychedelic strap may remind you of your hard-rockin' college days and comment ironically the instrument you now favor, but would be out of place in the Collegium concert. Black or natural leather is never out of place. When I play in costume I have a strap that matches my dress. BTW my costume is in subdued colors with low contrast--in other words it's not a stage costume with lots of stripes, gold braid etc. The idea is to focus on the music after all. The costume helps set the mood. Caroline -- Caroline Usher, Dept. of Biology Box 90338 Durham NC 27708 613-8155, fax 660-7293 So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for who among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. - Machiavelli To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
Alcohol! David - Original Message - From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED]; bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning How do I clean my mouth? ed At 05:48 PM 11/1/2006 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote: Hi Bill, Kenneth claims enzymes break down the built-up dirt. He also says the mouth should be clean. ajn - Original Message - From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning thank you arthur - perhaps spit is just a tad too cryptic. as i understand it, moisture of any sort is detrimental to wood IF it stays long enough to do any damage. if you simply dab a piece of cotton cloth on your tongue and then rub it gently over the stain, it should be enough to remove it. --- Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Bé, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
In a message dated 11/2/2006 3:27:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: from Kenneth Be, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he If you eat some licorice before you can make a lot of Rembrandts this way ;-)) BH Of course, there is always the brand Rembrandt toothpaste, but (seriously now) I wouldn't recommend having any residual toothpaste before spit cleaning (microabrasives, whiteners, flouride?) Actually, it isn't a bad idea to clean thoroughly (your mouth that is) and then rinse very very thoroughly! (never thought I'd be contributing dental hygene tips on the Lute List...) - Kenneth Be -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
Dr. Be, I'm noticing some lint in the crevices on my belly ;^) Sean On Nov 2, 2006, at 5:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 11/2/2006 3:27:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: from Kenneth Be, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he If you eat some licorice before you can make a lot of Rembrandts this way ;-)) BH Of course, there is always the brand Rembrandt toothpaste, but (seriously now) I wouldn't recommend having any residual toothpaste before spit cleaning (microabrasives, whiteners, flouride?) Actually, it isn't a bad idea to clean thoroughly (your mouth that is) and then rinse very very thoroughly! (never thought I'd be contributing dental hygene tips on the Lute List...) - Kenneth Be -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
... yes, clean saliva is usually perfectly fine, but roll a wad of soft cotton ... Would it be prudent to try distilled water first, and then use saliva only if the distilled water failed? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Bé, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
thank you arthur - perhaps spit is just a tad too cryptic. as i understand it, moisture of any sort is detrimental to wood IF it stays long enough to do any damage. if you simply dab a piece of cotton cloth on your tongue and then rub it gently over the stain, it should be enough to remove it. --- Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Bé, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
Hi Bill, Kenneth claims enzymes break down the built-up dirt. He also says the mouth should be clean. ajn - Original Message - From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning thank you arthur - perhaps spit is just a tad too cryptic. as i understand it, moisture of any sort is detrimental to wood IF it stays long enough to do any damage. if you simply dab a piece of cotton cloth on your tongue and then rub it gently over the stain, it should be enough to remove it. --- Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Bé, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
Arthur, you are right on. I have used this method, and it works well, for me. 2 years ago, I decided to clean up some instruments I had for 20 + years, and they had turned quite dark in color. So, I used a very soft, old rag, and actually spit (yes, goobers!) and gently rubbed the old grime off. One needs to be careful to not remove the finish, just the grime. Especially my old 10 course, made of cherry in 1980, came out beautiful. Before the cleaning, it was difficult to visualize the grain. Now, it appears wonderful. Another product to use is, if you can find it, Parker's Perfect Polish. It can help clean as it polishes the wood. It is an old fashioned item, but it works well. ed At 04:19 PM 11/1/2006 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote: That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Bé, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
How do I clean my mouth? ed At 05:48 PM 11/1/2006 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote: Hi Bill, Kenneth claims enzymes break down the built-up dirt. He also says the mouth should be clean. ajn - Original Message - From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning thank you arthur - perhaps spit is just a tad too cryptic. as i understand it, moisture of any sort is detrimental to wood IF it stays long enough to do any damage. if you simply dab a piece of cotton cloth on your tongue and then rub it gently over the stain, it should be enough to remove it. --- Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Bé, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
seek purity of mind ... --- Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do I clean my mouth? ed At 05:48 PM 11/1/2006 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote: Hi Bill, Kenneth claims enzymes break down the built-up dirt. He also says the mouth should be clean. ajn - Original Message - From: bill kilpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning thank you arthur - perhaps spit is just a tad too cryptic. as i understand it, moisture of any sort is detrimental to wood IF it stays long enough to do any damage. if you simply dab a piece of cotton cloth on your tongue and then rub it gently over the stain, it should be enough to remove it. --- Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Bé, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn - Original Message - From: Arthur Ness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: cleaning Spit! - Original Message - From: Alan Barnosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] cleaning I am brand new to this list, if this question has come up before, I apoligize, but I don't know of a way to search old messages. I have a 8 course rennasiance lute - the soundboard is only lightly finished. I've had it for about 2 years and where I have placed the pinky is really dirty. Anyone know how I should go about cleaning this? Not exactly sure what the wood is. Thanks! Alan Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: cleaning
Words of wisdom from the expert. ed At 08:02 PM 11/1/2006 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see that I have just achieved my long overdue 15 minutes of fame! Anyway, yes, clean saliva is usually perfectly fine, but roll a wad of soft cotton onto a thin swab stick so that it is long and elongate, not short and stubby, and only lightly moisten it. Then gently roll it over the soiled area of the soundboard. Warning: one some lutes it can remove some of the finish. I recently removed some dirt from one of my Tomlinson lutes and discovered that some of the varnish finish was removed when the area dried. However, I replaced some varnish into that area and all was ok afterwards. I am very fastidious with my lutes and also clean the dirt from the fingerboards and even on the backside of the neck, as well as the body fret area and where the right arm touches the bottom of the lute. There is a synthetic saliva formula consisting of triammonium citrate that can also be used, but I still prefer my own mouth moisture. Spit cleanings are commonly and routinely done to clean unvarnished paintings (amazing how much dirt accumulates on the surfaces of paintings in clean museum environments just from the visitor traffic bringing in dirt from the street outside!) and are often done as a preliminary step before varnish removal from varnished paintings. These days, however, I use the triammonium citrate solution on paintings and sometimes a solution even more potent. Kenneth Be In a message dated 11/1/2006 4:30:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That suggestion usually shocks some people. But it was from Kenneth Be, a conservator at the Cleveland Museum of Fine Arts. They actually use spit to clean the grime of centuries from paintings by the old masters. So he uses spit also to clean his lutes. But perhaps he can explain more. ==ajn -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
