Non equal contra equal temperament
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, Roman Turovsky wrote: > So, to drive the point as far as humanly possible: > Meantone is painting-by-numbers, while ET permits one to say something > meaningful and original, musically speaking. It is really confusing to find a "militant" or "fundamantalistic" fighter for equal temperament in the Lute List! To this guy the ET seems to be kind of religion? Or perhaps and likely it is just his wish to be the troll of the List. (The word "troll" is a modern web-equivalent for "provocator".) But if you have ever heard a pure or near pure third in your final cadence of a lute piece of let us say 1500-1690 (or more), you will never accept an ET 3rd there! And if you do, either your hearing or your aesthetics has something very wrong in it... ;-) All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Non equal contra equal temperament
Arto, I should stay out of this, but I'll stick my neck out having only seen your message and the quote from RT (those included below). To me there is only one reason for ET, and that is the chromatic instruments with fixed strings (piano, harp, etc.), and the need to play them in different keys. Even meantone is a corruption of the perfection of the intervals as defined by the overtone scale. We all know the Pythagorean comma, and that all of the temperaments are compromises to handle it. (Don't pick on me, I'm trying to write briefly). The only instruments that don't need a compromise are those with continual pitch ability - like the voice and the unfretted violin. I would have said that ET was "painting by numbers", and meantone was "painting with a lot more numbers" (or shades of tone and interval). But despite that I'm an advocate of ET, it allows us ensemble play (and that is another reason for it) on instruments not set to the same base scale. What we lose in that pure, or near pure, third we gain in the flexibility of ensemble play. There is a place for each in the spectrum of musical performance. As string players we sometimes forget the need to work with instruments not easily retuned (or impossible, in the case some of the winds). ET is a "lingua franca" of tuning. Not the best for everything, but one that will work for all. Best, Jon - Original Message - From: "Arto Wikla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: Non equal contra equal temperament > > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, Roman Turovsky wrote: > > > So, to drive the point as far as humanly possible: > > Meantone is painting-by-numbers, while ET permits one to say something > > meaningful and original, musically speaking. > > It is really confusing to find a "militant" or "fundamantalistic" > fighter for equal temperament in the Lute List! To this guy the ET seems > to be kind of religion? Or perhaps and likely it is just his wish to be > the troll of the List. (The word "troll" is a modern web-equivalent for > "provocator".) But if you have ever heard a pure or near pure third in > your final cadence of a lute piece of let us say 1500-1690 (or more), you > will never accept an ET 3rd there! And if you do, either your hearing or > your aesthetics has something very wrong in it... ;-) > > All the best, > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
Re: Non equal contra equal temperament
>> So, to drive the point as far as humanly possible: >> Meantone is painting-by-numbers, while ET permits one to say something >> meaningful and original, musically speaking. > > It is really confusing to find a "militant" or "fundamantalistic" > fighter for equal temperament in the Lute List! REally??? How so? > To this guy the ET seems > to be kind of religion? Even more. I think ET is a musical embodiment of same egalitarian/republican idea that was perpetrated on the civilization by the secret cabal of Rosicrucians and Illuminati, and MT embodies submission to despotism and status quo. All of this fits nicely into Platonic connection between political systems and musical styles. (I hope DAS would assay this someday) > Or perhaps and likely it is just his wish to be > the troll of the List. (The word "troll" is a modern web-equivalent for > "provocator".) A troll is mythical Scandinavian creature that has little to say, much like a certain Finn. But if you have ever heard a pure or near pure third in > your final cadence of a lute piece of let us say 1500-1690 (or more), you > will never accept an ET 3rd there! And if you do, either your hearing or > your aesthetics has something very wrong in it... ;-) I've heard these 3ds aplenty, and found them cheesy. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Non equal contra equal temperament
> Even more. I think ET is a musical embodiment of same egalitarian/republican > idea that was perpetrated on the civilization by the secret cabal of > Rosicrucians and Illuminati, and MT embodies submission to despotism and > status quo. All of this fits nicely into Platonic connection between > political systems and musical styles. (I hope DAS would assay this > someday) Do I detect a certain elitist erudition embodying an energetic effort to effect an effective exit? Rosicrucians and Illuminati as egalitarians - oh well, they might just as well have been as the former exists as a Society that advertises the "truth" in the tabloid pages (along with the phone sex ads), and the latter is an apocryphal elite. As a past master of the meaningless statement I am jealous. To combine such concepts is worthy of a novel, shall we call it The Da Vinci Code. (Not to knock that book, I enjoyed it thoroughly as a novel - but Eco's Foucault's Pendulum might be more to the point. There the fiction is the internal theme of the fiction). And I do believe that "assess" would be a better word than "assay", although both have a similar dictionary meaning. Assay is more normally used for physical qualities of substances, assess for the evaluation of ideas or argument. Isn't this silly? Best, Jon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: Non equal contra equal temperament
>> Even more. I think ET is a musical embodiment of same > egalitarian/republican >> idea that was perpetrated on the civilization by the secret cabal of >> Rosicrucians and Illuminati, and MT embodies submission to despotism and >> status quo. All of this fits nicely into Platonic connection between >> political systems and musical styles. (I hope DAS would assay this >> someday) > > Do I detect a certain elitist erudition embodying an energetic effort to > effect an effective exit? Your detective antennae are faulty. > > Rosicrucians and Illuminati as egalitarians - oh well, they might just as > well have been as the former exists as a Society that advertises the "truth" > in the tabloid pages (along with the phone sex ads), and the latter is an > apocryphal elite. As a past master of the meaningless statement I am > jealous. To combine such concepts is worthy of a novel, shall we call it The > Da Vinci Code. (Not to knock that book, I enjoyed it thoroughly as a novel - > but Eco's Foucault's Pendulum might be more to the point. There the fiction > is the internal theme of the fiction). And I do believe that "assess" would > be a better word than "assay", although both have a similar dictionary > meaning. Assay is more normally used for physical qualities of substances, > assess for the evaluation of ideas or argument. > > Isn't this silly? > Best, Jon This certainly is. However the politics of Rosicrucianism in the 18th century are not. A lot of people piad with their lives for this. Well worth reading up on it (keywords: Schwartz and Weisshaupt, to save you some trouble). RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
