Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.)
Dear Jerzy, I can't remember if you did ever get a reply from the List about the Castelfranco discovery. I don't know how easy it would be to get hold of, but there was a Festschrift published a few years ago, with information about it all: _Trent' Anni di Ricerche Musicologiche - Studi in onore di F. Alberto Gallo_ edited by Patrizia Dalla Vecchia and Donatella Restani (Rome: Edizioni Torre d'Orfeo, 1996). One of the articles is by Franco Rossi, "Pacolini da Borgotaro _versus_ Pacalone da Padova. Francesco da Milano nell' Antologia Manoscritta di Castelfranco Veneto." The article is in Italian. Rossi provides a list of contents of the manuscript, and the music (transcribed into staff notation) of a lute duet by Francesco da Milano. Best wishes, Stewart. - Original Message - From: "Jerzy ZAK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:14 PM Subject: Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.) > Dear Matanya, > > I feel a little uncomfortable sending my question to the List - and > that way obviously to you as well - again. Some time ago, when I joined > the List, I was mainly expecting fresh news and knowledge in small bits > shared by people dealing with all aspects of lute and it's music. But > time showed that some people prefer wasting time - ours, mine, on > personal quarrels. Lets to the point, then. May I ask you again (you > could just overlooked my small posting, but you were present on the > list in the meantime): > > What are the discoveries of Francesco Castelfranco, and other recent > discoveries? > > Best regards, > Jerzy > > > On Thursday, Dec 4, 2003, at 01:42 Europe/Warsaw, Jerzy ZAK wrote: > > > On Wednesday, Dec 3, 2003, at 23:04 Europe/Warsaw, Matanya Ophee wrote: > > > >> But should new material come to light, > >> there is no chance it will enter into general circulation any time > >> soon. > >> Viz. the availability to the Francesco Castelfranco new discoveries. > >> And > >> this is only one of the more recent discoveries that will be a long > >> time in > >> hiding from the lute community. > > > > What are the new discoveries of Francesco Castelfranco? > > What are the other more recent discoveries?? > > > > Jerzy > > >
Re: Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.)
At 12:24 PM 12/5/2003 -0500, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I'll ask Sasha Batov about this. >RT > > >http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg02059.html Good idea. I hope you have better luck getting hold of him than I did last August. Batov was working in the Leningrad Museum of Musical Instruments at the time. That's when I met him. The Manuscript in question was in another library. But as an active lutenist in Leningrad at the same time, he should know of this manuscript and what it was. Matanya Ophee Editions Orphe'e, Inc., 1240 Clubview Blvd. N. Columbus, OH 43235-1226 Phone: 614-846-9517 Fax: 614-846-9794 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.orphee.com
Re: Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.)
I'll ask Sasha Batov about this. RT http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg02059.html lute <-- Chronological --> Find <-- Thread --> Re: Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.) > > For example, many years ago, I photographed in Leningrad., when it was > > still Leningrad, a lute manuscript in one library. ... One of these > > days, when I am in a better mood and > > when I can deal with lute music and lutenists directly, without regard > > to > > my so-called reputation, I may investigate this further. > >Don't cry Mataniy, don't wait for a better mood - lutenists are all the >same as guitarists, flutists, programers and bankers. Find a distance, >don't get involved in particulars... Good idea. You see, not all lutenists on this listare of the same mindset as Messrs. Abramovich, Thames and Turovsky. Obviously, there are some reasonable people here who understand that the issue of the survival of the lute is not one of instant gratification by free downloading, but one of study and research. I even have some friends in this list. I fully understand why they choose to encourage me in private messages, and not expose themselves to the kind of scatological (Yes, Jon Murphy, scatological. Just check out Turovsky's first post in this thread!) character assassination that goes on in here. People who have done so publicly in other forums, have been accused by Roman of being MO sycophants, among other expletives. >Tell us what's on the film and >either publish it (perhaps not in USA or Switzerland, if you don't want >to complain about sales) or leave to someone for a Ph.D. elaboration, >if that's better destination. Don't hide, we are looking forward. I know where it is, but I assure you, I have more urgent issues on the front burner, some even have to do with the lute. They will be announced as soon as they are ready for publication.
Re: Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.)
At 09:59 PM 12/4/2003 +0100, Jerzy ZAK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For example, many years ago, I photographed in Leningrad., when it was > > still Leningrad, a lute manuscript in one library. ... One of these > > days, when I am in a better mood and > > when I can deal with lute music and lutenists directly, without regard > > to > > my so-called reputation, I may investigate this further. > >Don't cry Mataniy, don't wait for a better mood - lutenists are all the >same as guitarists, flutists, programers and bankers. Find a distance, >don't get involved in particulars... Good idea. You see, not all lutenists on this listare of the same mindset as Messrs. Abramovich, Thames and Turovsky. Obviously, there are some reasonable people here who understand that the issue of the survival of the lute is not one of instant gratification by free downloading, but one of study and research. I even have some friends in this list. I fully understand why they choose to encourage me in private messages, and not expose themselves to the kind of scatological (Yes, Jon Murphy, scatological. Just check out Turovsky's first post in this thread!) character assassination that goes on in here. People who have done so publicly in other forums, have been accused by Roman of being MO sycophants, among other expletives. >Tell us what's on the film and >either publish it (perhaps not in USA or Switzerland, if you don't want >to complain about sales) or leave to someone for a Ph.D. elaboration, >if that's better destination. Don't hide, we are looking forward. I know where it is, but I assure you, I have more urgent issues on the front burner, some even have to do with the lute. They will be announced as soon as they are ready for publication. Matanya Ophee Editions Orphe'e, Inc., 1240 Clubview Blvd. N. Columbus, OH 43235-1226 Phone: 614-846-9517 Fax: 614-846-9794 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.orphee.com
Re: Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.)
Dear Matanya, Thank you for your answer. On Thursday, Dec 4, 2003, at 19:43 Europe/Warsaw, Matanya Ophee wrote: > At 06:14 PM 12/4/2003 +0100, Jerzy ZAK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Dear Matanya, >> ... But time showed that some people prefer wasting time - ours, >> mine, on >> personal quarrels. > This last quarrel was not personal. I avoided the thread until Albert > Reyerman had a chance to defend himself ... The rest of > this ugly affair is in no need of being mentioned. I understand your point and am the last to continue in that spirit. >> ... What are the discoveries of Francesco Castelfranco, and other >> recent >> discoveries? > ... The subject has been mentioned here before, mostly by Arthur Ness > who will be better informed about this than I am. > > As for other discoveries, it is only a simple postulate that argues > that we > have no way of knowing what it is we do not know. New things come up > for > air all the time. This is obvious. I was personally a wittness of more then one ''discovery'' or ''rediscovery'' of a lute MS in Poland and all this happend outside of RISM (Repertoire International des Sources Musicales) network and operations - I'll reftrain from commenting on that organization. All this happens by chance or through someones often ''controversial'' activity... > For example, many years ago, I photographed in Leningrad., when it was > still Leningrad, a lute manuscript in one library. ... One of these > days, when I am in a better mood and > when I can deal with lute music and lutenists directly, without regard > to > my so-called reputation, I may investigate this further. Don't cry Mataniy, don't wait for a better mood - lutenists are all the same as guitarists, flutists, programers and bankers. Find a distance, don't get involved in particulars... Tell us what's on the film and either publish it (perhaps not in USA or Switzerland, if you don't want to complain about sales) or leave to someone for a Ph.D. elaboration, if that's better destination. Don't hide, we are looking forward. As to the situation in either Mascow or St Petersburg archives, it's a mine of new or forgotten things - I asure you! I can publically say only so, I'm not of the power of Christoph Wolff who could have done a mega-move of the whole one of the old Berlin archives from Kijev back to Berlin - few years ago! Does anybody know if the catalogue, as promised, is already available? Ears up, Matanya (as we say here), find that film! Yours, Jerzy
Re: Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.)
At 06:14 PM 12/4/2003 +0100, Jerzy ZAK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Dear Matanya, > >I feel a little uncomfortable sending my question to the List - and >that way obviously to you as well - again. Some time ago, when I joined >the List, I was mainly expecting fresh news and knowledge in small bits >shared by people dealing with all aspects of lute and it's music. But >time showed that some people prefer wasting time - ours, mine, on >personal quarrels. This last quarrel was not personal. I avoided the thread until Albert Reyerman had a chance to defend himself. I think he did a marvelously clear job, and it was then that he was attacked personally. I intervened on his behalf, not because he is a friend of mine, but because he is a colleague, and even though his edition of the John Johnson competes directly with mine, I know exactly from my own experience how difficult it is to publish lute music and how unfair the charge of greed is. My intervention was mild by all accounts, but it still generated an ad hominem attack on me, starting with a distortion of my name, and referring to my _reputation_ as a justification for classifying my current statement as vile. The rest of this ugly affair is in no need of being mentioned. > Lets to the point, then. May I ask you again (you >could just overlooked my small posting, but you were present on the >list in the meantime): > >What are the discoveries of Francesco Castelfranco, and other recent >discoveries? I know very little about it directly. I heard that 2 new pieces by Francesco da Milano were discovered in Castelfranco something or other in Italy. Paul O'Dette is said to have recorded them, and there are copies circulating in the lute grape vine. Ron Andrico once told me he had them. I have not seen one myself. The subject has been mentioned here before, mostly by Arthur Ness who will be better informed about this than I am. As for other discoveries, it is only a simple postulate that argues that we have no way of knowing what it is we do not know. New things come up for air all the time. For example, many years ago, I photographed in Leningrad., when it was still Leningrad, a lute manuscript in one library. In a more recent attempt to get an official copy of it, I was told the manuscript does not exist there anymore, and they would not tell me where it is now. For all I know, my photographic copy of this manuscript may be the only existing copy of it. I really do not know anything about this manuscript, and I have not looked at the film in many years. It may be something that is very well known, or that was known to people like Kosak and Neeman, or it may be an entirely new discovery. One of these days, when I am in a better mood and when I can deal with lute music and lutenists directly, without regard to my so-called reputation, I may investigate this further. Matanya Ophee Editions Orphe'e, Inc., 1240 Clubview Blvd. N. Columbus, OH 43235-1226 Phone: 614-846-9517 Fax: 614-846-9794 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.orphee.com
Recent discoveries (Facsimeles etc.)
Dear Matanya, I feel a little uncomfortable sending my question to the List - and that way obviously to you as well - again. Some time ago, when I joined the List, I was mainly expecting fresh news and knowledge in small bits shared by people dealing with all aspects of lute and it's music. But time showed that some people prefer wasting time - ours, mine, on personal quarrels. Lets to the point, then. May I ask you again (you could just overlooked my small posting, but you were present on the list in the meantime): What are the discoveries of Francesco Castelfranco, and other recent discoveries? Best regards, Jerzy On Thursday, Dec 4, 2003, at 01:42 Europe/Warsaw, Jerzy ZAK wrote: > On Wednesday, Dec 3, 2003, at 23:04 Europe/Warsaw, Matanya Ophee wrote: > >> But should new material come to light, >> there is no chance it will enter into general circulation any time >> soon. >> Viz. the availability to the Francesco Castelfranco new discoveries. >> And >> this is only one of the more recent discoveries that will be a long >> time in >> hiding from the lute community. > > What are the new discoveries of Francesco Castelfranco? > What are the other more recent discoveries?? > > Jerzy
