[LUTE] Re: Medieval lutes
Here's a note from Doug Smith about some interesting concerts. Nancy Carlin Delivered-To: lila-nancycarlinassociates:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Envelope-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Spam-Check-By: mailwash13.pair.com X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=3.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=disabled version=3.00 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Filtered: 0a530e8e58cc107def36ac6139926d69 X-Greylisting: 209.68.2.0/24 is whitelisted From: Douglas Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Nancy Carlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Medieval lutes Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:40:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 US-Canadian Tour --- October, 2005 Ensemble Sarband (from Germany) and The King's Singers (England) Ensemble SARBAND endeavours to show all possible connections between European music, Islamic and Jewish music-culture. Sarband's director Vladimir Ivanoff plays lute and percussion. His doctoral dissertation on the Pesaro MS (turn of the 16th century) is the standard work on this pivotal source. Since its founding in 1986, the group has recorded more than two dozen CDs. October concerts in North America: Sacred Bridges: Jewish, Christian and Muslim Psalms from the 17th Cent. 11th (Tues.) Gainesville: University of Florida, Phillips Center, 19:30 / Phone 800-905-ARTS 14th. Atlanta: Emory University, Schwartz Center, Moody Center Hall, 20:00 / Phone 404-727-5050 16th. Amherst, UMass: Ford Center, 15:00 / Phone 662-915-2787 20th. San Francisco: Herbst Theatre, 20:00 / Phone 415-398-6449 21st. Los Angeles: UCLA, Royce Hall, 20:00 / Phone 310-825-2101 23rd. New York: Lincoln Center, Church of St. Ignatius Loyola, 16:00 25th. Durham: Duke University, Duke Chapel, 20:00 / Phone 919-660-2256 26th. Quebec: Grand Theatre, 20:00 / Phone 418-643-813 28th. Fairfax VA: George Mason University, 20:00 / Phone 888-945-2468 For more information about Sarband, see: http://www.sarband.de/english_introduction.htmlhttp://www.sarband.de/english_introduction.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 8/26/2005 Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - www.nancycarlinassociates.com Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes? and Maalouf
Matt, You have hit the nail on the head. There has been a rewriting of history in recent decades by the pan-Arabists and the Islamists. And there was a rewriting of history many years ago by the Western historians. And there are those who would demonize a culture and a people for the devastation wreaked on their own ancestors. It is just that history as written by the winners that negates the valid statement those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I haven't seen the film, but I understand that it shows Salidin in a favorable light. That matches all the various contemporary accounts I have in my bookshelves (it is a period I like to read of). But the Crusaders themselves were of good will and good heart - when they started. But I'm afraid that good will and good heart is something defined by the writer, and the writer's viewpoint. I understand that Ridley Scott tried to make a movie about a period (which did exist) of relaxation of fundamental views. In history that period was brief, and atrocities on both sides ended it. As has often happened, the escalation of an incident into a crusade. We don't need to go to history for that, just go to a bar on Saturday night. I'll not see the film, I haven't been to a movie theater since 1976 (no beer and no smoking, and uncomfortable seats g). And I'll not rent a video of a film with known actors standing tall as historical characters, and leaping high into the air in fantastic scenes. Yet I enjoy re-running the video I bought of Master and Commander, a compendium of several Patrick O'Brien novels. The music is quiet, the protagonists (as in the book) play a violin and a cello - and the actors play in a way I'd never thought of. I don't know where the director found it, but it sounds authentic. They go from bowing to switching one or the other instrument to a lute/guitar position, and plucking to accompany the other. I don't know if it was ever done, but it sure sounds like something a couple of guys at sea, who loved the music, might do for a variation on a theme. Best, Jon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes? and Maalouf
Hola Manolo, I read those books, and they are a real eye opener. Maalouf is one of my favourite writers along with Waltaari. Best saludos G. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 04/05/2005 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: If I'm not mistaken, I think it was all written originally for the film. or so the official web-page reads. But it does not mention Jacob Heringman. How do you know it was him (seriously)? It was only the day before yesterday, but I seem to remember oud sound, not lute. I'd love to get to know more. Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Jacob had mentioned this when we spoke a couple of weeks ago - he is also listed in the credits at the end of the film, along with Fretwork and the King's Consort. Yes, musically, there was not much that we would consider as very lutey in a stylistic sense (not surprisingly considering the film takes place in the 12th century - and as we know, there is *very* little lute repertoire from that period at all!). Perhaps Jacob does play an oud on certain tracks? It's certainly not beyond him. Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: If I'm not mistaken, I think it was all written originally for the film. or so the official web-page reads. But it does not mention Jacob Heringman. How do you know it was him (seriously)? It was only the day before yesterday, but I seem to remember oud sound, not lute. I'd love to get to know more. Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
No probs! All best, B In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Jacob had mentioned this when we spoke a couple of weeks ago - he is also listed in the credits at the end of the film, along with Fretwork and the King's Consort. Yes, musically, there was not much that we would consider as very lutey in a stylistic sense (not surprisingly considering the film takes place in the 12th century - and as we know, there is *very* little lute repertoire from that period at all!). Perhaps Jacob does play an oud on certain tracks? It's certainly not beyond him. I-C. Thank you! Cheers, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
medieval lutes?
saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
At 10:57 AM 5/6/2005, Mathias Rösel wrote: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Did you have to bore holes in the floor to let all the blood run out? ;-) Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Good question. Caroline Caroline Usher DCMB Administrative Coordinator 613-8155, Box 91000 B343 LSRC To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Hi all, I am trying to set up a WEB page on the Varietie of lute lessons. My goal is to gather resources, and open the page to everyone's positive input - including corrections, additions, comments, etc. A detailed discussion of every piece would be fabulous, though I doubt we'll get that far. As I started work on this project, I realized that the number of questions and points to be raised is really quite vast: one of the first problems is the chronology of the pieces. When was the gaillard dedicated to the Earl of Essex, for instance? Was it after Essex's triumph in Cadiz, after his first disgrace, after his failed attempt to storm London, or after his execution? Poulton may have some answers, but I dont have the book, and generally speaking, you have a wealth of knowledge that can really make that page an important and valuable resource for everyone. Another interesting point of chronology, I had not realized that the Varietie and the Musical Banquet, also published by Robert Dowland in 1610, had to be understood as companion pieces in a way: both have a very strongly european flavor, which is not insignificant. The interesting part is that by adding resources together, new questions seem to pop up - for instance, a simple HTML link to another version of the same piece really puts that piece in a different perspective. Even figuring out the intricate social or family connections between the various dedicatees of the pieces - lady Rich and Essex, for instance - can give us some new insights into the music. Obviously, technical aspects of the music and the prefaces are also a rich source of topics for discussion adn exploration. So, I really hope I can entice you to contribute to this on-going, in-progress project. See http://cbsr26.ucr.edu/wlkfiles/Publications/Varietie/VarietieOfLuteLessons.html best wishes, Alain To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
medieval lutes? and Maalouf
Hi, I don't want neither go off topic, nor open another can of worms, but nevertheless would like to bring to your attention a beautiful book, very useful in our actual context: CRUSADES THROUGH ARAB EYES -- by Amin Maalouf. It is originally written in french (the subtitle in that language reads: 'La barbarie chretienne en Terre sainte') by this fine libanese writer, who also wrote, among other books, SAMARCAND and LEO AFRICANUS. As a libanese he is at home and fluent in both european and non-european frames of mind. After reading CRUSADES... it is perhaps lesser difficult to understand what is happening today in the islamic world... Saludos, Manolo Laguillo -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes? and Maalouf
I don't want neither go off topic, nor open another can of worms, but nevertheless would like to bring to your attention a beautiful book, very useful in our actual context: CRUSADES THROUGH ARAB EYES -- by Amin Maalouf. It is originally written in french (the subtitle in that language reads: 'La barbarie chretienne en Terre sainte') by this fine libanese writer, who also wrote, among other books, SAMARCAND and LEO AFRICANUS. As a libanese he is at home and fluent in both european and non-european frames of mind. After reading CRUSADES... it is perhaps lesser difficult to understand what is happening today in the islamic world... I doubt it. Medieval accounts of atrocities are often faulty in their statistics (few are not). One particular example is the sack of Florianow ca. 1650 by the joint force of Cossaks and Tartars. The contemporary chronicle reports casualties at 60,000 and 2 survivors. The latter is true indeed. But at hte time Cracow, the capital of Poland had a population of 20,000, and Florianow couldn't have more than 6,000. In general Arab historians are no more immune to tendentiousness than Europeans, but in recent years they've really been losing self-control.. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://polyhymnion.org/swv ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. so, it was him! Do you happen to know, of which recording it was taken? Best wishes, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes? and Maalouf
I don't want neither go off topic, nor open another can of worms, but nevertheless would like to bring to your attention a beautiful book, very useful in our actual context: CRUSADES THROUGH ARAB EYES -- by Amin Maalouf. It is originally written in french (the subtitle in that language reads: 'La barbarie chretienne en Terre sainte') by this fine libanese writer,who also wrote, among other books, SAMARCAND and LEO AFRICANUS. As a libanese he is at home and fluent in both european and non-european frames of mind. After reading CRUSADES... it is perhaps lesser difficult to understand what is happening today in the islamic world... you mean that memories of most ancient humiliations by Europeans (several crusades, Napoleon) are being refreshed and are being used as arguments and accusations by certain muslim authors? Yes, that has already been going on for decades in parts of Arabic countries. It's part of muslim-pan-arabic and Iranian rhetorics. As for atrocities during the crusades, you might add the killing of thousands of Jews in the Rhine area (1st crusade), the bloody conquest of orthodox-christian Byzantine, the selling of several thousands of volunteering children into slavery by Christian dealers, and so on. Those for who the crusades were a booming success were cities like Venice where ships were supplied and economic ties with Arabic partners were intensified. One of the ways ouds and lutes were brought to Europe. Regards, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: medieval lutes?
It should be noted for those who don't know, that this film was directed and co-produced by Ridley Scott, who is not of Hollywood. He is one of the great storytellers of cinema. Less importantly, his work is noted for meticulous production design. The current offering is one of a few military epics, of which I am very fond of The Duellists. -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:30 AM To: Mathias Rösel Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: medieval lutes? Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: medieval lutes?
me too. i thought the negative criticism it received because keith carradine didn't spic wiz a frenge accsont was silly. --- Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It should be noted for those who don't know, that this film was directed and co-produced by Ridley Scott, who is not of Hollywood. He is one of the great storytellers of cinema. Less importantly, his work is noted for meticulous production design. The current offering is one of a few military epics, of which I am very fond of The Duellists. -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:30 AM To: Mathias Rösel Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: medieval lutes? Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
RE: medieval lutes?
Yeah, what a joke. We are supposed to think that it's ok to present Napoleonic officers speaking English, but only if with an accent. Whatever -- the film won best debut at Cannes. -Original Message- From: bill kilpatrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 4:00 PM To: Stuart LeBlanc; Lutelist Subject: RE: medieval lutes? me too. i thought the negative criticism it received because keith carradine didn't spic wiz a frenge accsont was silly. --- Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It should be noted for those who don't know, that this film was directed and co-produced by Ridley Scott, who is not of Hollywood. He is one of the great storytellers of cinema. Less importantly, his work is noted for meticulous production design. The current offering is one of a few military epics, of which I am very fond of The Duellists. -Original Message- From: Benjamin Narvey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:30 AM To: Mathias Rösel Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: medieval lutes? Yes, I saw it too. I was dragged along against my will to what I was sure was to be typical Hollywood rubbish - but a medievalist friend of mine assures me the battle scenes were actually quite well researched (they were genuinely stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. I particularly enjoyed the inevitable Hollywood moment of truth speech of the main protagonist who, of course, plays the role of a politically correct Crusader who defeats the muslims for the good of all races, creeds, etch. (What else!) Best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html ___ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: medieval lutes?
If I'm not mistaken, I think it was all written originally for the film. All best, Benjamin In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] =?ISO-8859-1?b? Ik1hdGhpYXMgUvZzZWwi?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Benjamin Narvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: stunning) and I quite enjoyed Jacob Heringman's lute playing. so, it was him! Do you happen to know, of which recording it was taken? Best wishes, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Re: medieval lutes?
Mathias Rösel scripsit: saw Kindom of Heaven in the movies, yesterday. Knights, fluently speaking Arabic with their attendants, Arabs speaking with an accent. Music by and large tolerable (hardly any medieval pieces). Made me wonder what became of the medieval song project, and of medieval lute players in general. Best, Eric Redlinger has recorded an excellent set of these with a soprano, available on Magnatune.com. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
