Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng schrieb: I'd prefer a name that does not look like an environment name, Good idea! like --Separator-- or --Splitter--. Either is fine to me, so I can go with --Separator--. Michael, what do you think? Me? Both is fine to me. But I also like -- Environment Separator --. Michael
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng schrieb: I'd prefer a name that does not look like an environment name, Good idea! like "--Separator--" or "--Splitter--". Either is fine to me, so I can go with --Separator--. Michael, what do you think? Me? Both is fine to me. But I also like "-- Environment Separator --". Michael
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
José == José Matos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: José Now a small question, do we want to call it SplitLayout? I'd prefer a name that does not look like an environment name, like --Separator-- or --Splitter--. JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
I'd prefer a name that does not look like an environment name, Good idea! like --Separator-- or --Splitter--. Either is fine to me, so I can go with --Separator--. Michael, what do you think? Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Either is fine to me, so I can go with --Separator--. Patch submitted, please test or read user's guide, section 3.4.4. I did not wait longer because lyx2lyx was not usable due to a bug introduced by my previous patch. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: Patch submitted, please test or read user's guide, section 3.4.4. Enrico, you might use this Split environment instead of the clumsy ERT in the IEEEtran template (last section). Jürgen
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 06:26:45PM +0200, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: Bo Peng wrote: Patch submitted, please test or read user's guide, section 3.4.4. Enrico, you might use this Split environment instead of the clumsy ERT in the IEEEtran template (last section). Yes, I think so. Please, let me know what you think about the updated patch using the brilliant solution by JMarc. -- Enrico
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Enrico Forestieri wrote: Yes, I think so. Please, let me know what you think about the updated patch using the brilliant solution by JMarc. I like it. Put it in. Jürgen
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
> "José" == José Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: José> Now a small question, do we want to call it SplitLayout? I'd prefer a name that does not look like an environment name, like "--Separator--" or "--Splitter--". JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
I'd prefer a name that does not look like an environment name, Good idea! like "--Separator--" or "--Splitter--". Either is fine to me, so I can go with --Separator--. Michael, what do you think? Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Either is fine to me, so I can go with --Separator--. Patch submitted, please test or read user's guide, section 3.4.4. I did not wait longer because lyx2lyx was not usable due to a bug introduced by my previous patch. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: > Patch submitted, please test or read user's guide, section 3.4.4. Enrico, you might use this Split environment instead of the clumsy ERT in the IEEEtran template (last section). Jürgen
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 06:26:45PM +0200, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: > Bo Peng wrote: > > > Patch submitted, please test or read user's guide, section 3.4.4. > > Enrico, you might use this Split environment instead of the clumsy ERT in > the IEEEtran template (last section). Yes, I think so. Please, let me know what you think about the updated patch using the brilliant solution by JMarc. -- Enrico
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Enrico Forestieri wrote: > Yes, I think so. Please, let me know what you think about the updated > patch using the brilliant solution by JMarc. I like it. Put it in. Jürgen
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
I will let Jose decide on this. Jose, have you decided on this one? Can SplitLayout go in? Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Tuesday 12 June 2007 18:18:24 Bo Peng wrote: I will let Jose decide on this. Jose, have you decided on this one? Can SplitLayout go in? What follows is my rationale to approve this feature. As I have expressed my earlier concerns in the thread I hope that this feature does not becomes a permanent temporary solution. :-) Comparing this with our current solution, inserting a paragraph with a note on it, IMHO this is a lesser hack. In a sense the Splitlayout is near our motto WYSIWYM than what we have been using till the moment. Now a small question, do we want to call it SplitLayout? My problem is not with Split but with Layout, we have been moving away from calling it layout. Lars had suggested to call them (Paragraph) Styles. Any other suggestions? Bo -- José Abílio
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Now a small question, do we want to call it SplitLayout? I am fine with SplitEnvironment. I choose layout because it is shorter. Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Tuesday 12 June 2007 18:51:33 Bo Peng wrote: I am fine with SplitEnvironment. I choose layout because it is shorter. Bo Please give it a day to hear other suggestion tomorrow commit the most voted version. :-) -- José Abílio
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Please give it a day to hear other suggestion tomorrow commit the most voted version. :-) OK. SplitEnvironment, +1 Because we call the topleft dropbox the Environment box. Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng schrieb: Please give it a day to hear other suggestion tomorrow commit the most voted version. :-) OK. SplitEnvironment, +1 +1 Michael
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
I will let Jose decide on this. Jose, have you decided on this one? Can SplitLayout go in? Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Tuesday 12 June 2007 18:18:24 Bo Peng wrote: > > I will let Jose decide on this. > > Jose, have you decided on this one? Can SplitLayout go in? What follows is my rationale to approve this feature. As I have expressed my earlier concerns in the thread I hope that this feature does not becomes a permanent temporary solution. :-) Comparing this with our current solution, inserting a paragraph with a note on it, IMHO this is a lesser hack. In a sense the Splitlayout is near our motto WYSIWYM than what we have been using till the moment. Now a small question, do we want to call it SplitLayout? My problem is not with Split but with Layout, we have been moving away from calling it layout. Lars had suggested to call them (Paragraph) Styles. Any other suggestions? > Bo -- José Abílio
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Now a small question, do we want to call it SplitLayout? I am fine with SplitEnvironment. I choose layout because it is shorter. Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Tuesday 12 June 2007 18:51:33 Bo Peng wrote: > I am fine with SplitEnvironment. I choose layout because it is shorter. > > Bo Please give it a day to hear other suggestion tomorrow commit the most voted version. :-) -- José Abílio
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Please give it a day to hear other suggestion tomorrow commit the most voted version. :-) OK. SplitEnvironment, +1 Because we call the topleft dropbox "the Environment box". Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng schrieb: Please give it a day to hear other suggestion tomorrow commit the most voted version. :-) OK. SplitEnvironment, +1 +1 Michael
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
I prefer normalsize roman font and red (like beamer pause/endFrame) or blue (like pagebreak). That will be the attached, which has the following style entry: Style SplitLayout KeepEmpty 1 MarginDynamic LatexType Paragraph LatexName dummy ParIndent MM Align Block AlignPossible Block LabelType Static LabelString --- Split Layout --- LabelFont Family Roman Series Medium SizeNormal Color Blue EndFont End Jose, OK to commit? Bo Index: src/Buffer.cpp === --- src/Buffer.cpp (revision 18726) +++ src/Buffer.cpp (working copy) @@ -142,7 +142,7 @@ namespace { -int const LYX_FORMAT = 271; +int const LYX_FORMAT = 272; } // namespace anon Index: lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (revision 18726) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (working copy) @@ -77,7 +77,7 @@ (1_2, [220], generate_minor_versions(1.2 , 4)), (1_3, [221], generate_minor_versions(1.3 , 7)), (1_4, range(222,246), generate_minor_versions(1.4 , 4)), - (1_5, range(246,272), generate_minor_versions(1.5 , 0))] + (1_5, range(246,273), generate_minor_versions(1.5 , 0))] def formats_list(): Index: lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (revision 18726) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (working copy) @@ -1656,7 +1656,53 @@ else: del document.header[i] +def revert_splitlayout(document): +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node +From +\begin_layout SplitLayout +something +\end_layout + +to + +\begin_layout Standard +\begin_inset Note Note +status open + +\begin_layout Standard +end evironmnet +\end_layout + +\end_inset +something + +\end_layout + +''' + +i = 0 +while True: +i = find_token(document.body, r'\begin_layout SplitLayout', i) +if i == -1: +break +j = find_end_of_layout(document.body, i + 1) +if j == -1: +# this should not happen +break +document.body[i : j + 1] = [r'\begin_layout Standard', +r'\begin_inset Note Note', +'status open', +'', +r'\begin_layout Standard', +'Split Layout', +r'\end_layout', +'', +r'\end_inset'] + \ +document.body[ i + 1 : j] + \ +['', +r'\end_layout' +] ## # Conversion hub # @@ -1687,10 +1733,12 @@ [268, []], [269, []], [270, []], - [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]] + [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]], + [272, []], ] revert = [ + [271, [revert_splitlayout]], [270, [revert_ext_font_sizes]], [269, [revert_beamer_alert, revert_beamer_structure]], [268, [revert_preamble_listings_params, revert_listings_inset, revert_include_listings]], Index: lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc === --- lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (revision 18726) +++ lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (working copy) @@ -61,5 +61,20 @@ End - - +Style SplitLayout + KeepEmpty 1 + MarginDynamic + LatexType Paragraph + LatexName dummy + ParIndent MM + Align Block + AlignPossible Block + LabelType Static + LabelString --- Split Layout --- + LabelFont + Family Roman + Series Medium + SizeNormal + Color Blue + EndFont +End Index: lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx === --- lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (revision 18726) +++ lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (working copy) @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ #LyX 1.5.0svn created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/ -\lyxformat 263 +\lyxformat 272 \begin_document \begin_header \textclass scrbook @@ -91,8 +91,9 @@ \paperpagestyle default \tracking_changes false \output_changes false -\author usti -\author Uwe Stöhr +\author Bo Peng +\author usti +\author Uwe Stöhr \end_header \begin_body @@ -9278,6 +9279,28 @@ \end_layout +\begin_layout Standard +In case that you want to start a new list immediately
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: Herbert The current behaviour is easy! But not so easy for lyx newbies. The question is: what to insert that do not show up in the screen output (better latex output), yet split the environment? I remember that it took me 10 minutes to figure that out a few years ago. And, as I've said, this comes up on the user list from time to time, too, and I even filed an enhancement request related to this. Bo's solution may not be perfect, but it works. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Sat, Jun 09, 2007 at 10:49:13AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: ... +def revert_splitlayout(document): +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node +From That would be 'note' ... - Martin
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On 6/9/07, Martin Vermeer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jun 09, 2007 at 10:49:13AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: ... +def revert_splitlayout(document): +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node +From That would be 'note' Will be corrected when applied. Thanks. Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
I prefer normalsize roman font and red (like beamer pause/endFrame) or blue (like pagebreak). That will be the attached, which has the following style entry: Style SplitLayout KeepEmpty 1 MarginDynamic LatexType Paragraph LatexName dummy ParIndent MM Align Block AlignPossible Block LabelType Static LabelString "--- Split Layout ---" LabelFont Family Roman Series Medium SizeNormal Color Blue EndFont End Jose, OK to commit? Bo Index: src/Buffer.cpp === --- src/Buffer.cpp (revision 18726) +++ src/Buffer.cpp (working copy) @@ -142,7 +142,7 @@ namespace { -int const LYX_FORMAT = 271; +int const LYX_FORMAT = 272; } // namespace anon Index: lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (revision 18726) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (working copy) @@ -77,7 +77,7 @@ ("1_2", [220], generate_minor_versions("1.2" , 4)), ("1_3", [221], generate_minor_versions("1.3" , 7)), ("1_4", range(222,246), generate_minor_versions("1.4" , 4)), - ("1_5", range(246,272), generate_minor_versions("1.5" , 0))] + ("1_5", range(246,273), generate_minor_versions("1.5" , 0))] def formats_list(): Index: lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (revision 18726) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (working copy) @@ -1656,7 +1656,53 @@ else: del document.header[i] +def revert_splitlayout(document): +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node +From +\begin_layout SplitLayout +something +\end_layout + +to + +\begin_layout Standard +\begin_inset Note Note +status open + +\begin_layout Standard +end evironmnet +\end_layout + +\end_inset +something + +\end_layout + +''' + +i = 0 +while True: +i = find_token(document.body, r'\begin_layout SplitLayout', i) +if i == -1: +break +j = find_end_of_layout(document.body, i + 1) +if j == -1: +# this should not happen +break +document.body[i : j + 1] = [r'\begin_layout Standard', +r'\begin_inset Note Note', +'status open', +'', +r'\begin_layout Standard', +'Split Layout', +r'\end_layout', +'', +r'\end_inset'] + \ +document.body[ i + 1 : j] + \ +['', +r'\end_layout' +] ## # Conversion hub # @@ -1687,10 +1733,12 @@ [268, []], [269, []], [270, []], - [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]] + [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]], + [272, []], ] revert = [ + [271, [revert_splitlayout]], [270, [revert_ext_font_sizes]], [269, [revert_beamer_alert, revert_beamer_structure]], [268, [revert_preamble_listings_params, revert_listings_inset, revert_include_listings]], Index: lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc === --- lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (revision 18726) +++ lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (working copy) @@ -61,5 +61,20 @@ End - - +Style SplitLayout + KeepEmpty 1 + MarginDynamic + LatexType Paragraph + LatexName dummy + ParIndent MM + Align Block + AlignPossible Block + LabelType Static + LabelString "--- Split Layout ---" + LabelFont + Family Roman + Series Medium + SizeNormal + Color Blue + EndFont +End Index: lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx === --- lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (revision 18726) +++ lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (working copy) @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ #LyX 1.5.0svn created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/ -\lyxformat 263 +\lyxformat 272 \begin_document \begin_header \textclass scrbook @@ -91,8 +91,9 @@ \paperpagestyle default \tracking_changes false \output_changes false -\author "usti" -\author "Uwe Stöhr" +\author "Bo Peng" +\author "usti" +\author "Uwe Stöhr" \end_header \begin_body @@ -9278,6 +9279,28 @@ \end_layout +\begin_layout Standard +In case that you want
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: Herbert> The current behaviour is easy! But not so easy for lyx newbies. The question is: what to insert that do not show up in the screen output (better latex output), yet split the environment? I remember that it took me 10 minutes to figure that out a few years ago. And, as I've said, this comes up on the user list from time to time, too, and I even filed an enhancement request related to this. Bo's solution may not be perfect, but it works. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Sat, Jun 09, 2007 at 10:49:13AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: ... > +def revert_splitlayout(document): > +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node > +From That would be 'note' ... - Martin
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On 6/9/07, Martin Vermeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sat, Jun 09, 2007 at 10:49:13AM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: ... > +def revert_splitlayout(document): > +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node > +From That would be 'note' Will be corrected when applied. Thanks. Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, but this is likely the fate of this patch. The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc files that will end up in almost all layouts. This environment does not output anything but ends the previous environment. It is used like 1. item 1 --- Split Layout --- 1. another item 1 what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and this is pretty easy with Style Standard(Keep) CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End in stdclass.inc Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo == Bo Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bo I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, Bo but this is likely the fate of this patch. Bo The patch also contains UserGuide.lyx and lyx2lyx changes. If you Bo like it, please make your voice heard. I need four positive votes Bo to outnumber our future-oriented masters (who consider this as a Bo useless ugly hack). OK, I am fed up about this whining people do not like my features, they do not like me. Put it in. Make it bold in the layout list. Make it turn purple on mouse hover. Put a timer to change all Standard layouts into that new layout after 37 seconds of non-activity. You have my OK for all these things. Feeling better now? JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 09:25:07AM +0200, Herbert Voss wrote: Bo Peng wrote: I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, but this is likely the fate of this patch. The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc files that will end up in almost all layouts. This environment does not output anything but ends the previous environment. It is used like 1. item 1 --- Split Layout --- 1. another item 1 what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and this is pretty easy with Style Standard(Keep) CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End in stdclass.inc Good idea. Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? Andre'
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Andre == Andre Poenitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and this is pretty easy with Style Standard(Keep) CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End in stdclass.inc Andre Good idea. Andre Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like put multiple cariage return to do my page layout feature and then complain that it does not show on screen. JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Andre == Andre Poenitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and this is pretty easy with Style Standard(Keep) CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End in stdclass.inc Andre Good idea. Andre Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like put multiple cariage return to do my page layout feature and then complain that it does not show on screen. two major facts: 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and you cannot understand LyX ... Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Herbert == Herbert Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Herbert two major facts: Herbert 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX Herbert knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs Herbert If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and Herbert you cannot understand LyX ... That's why I think LyX should not help to create easily these consecutive empty lines. A version with a big label, as Bo proposed is better than that. JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:22:44 +0200 Herbert Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Andre == Andre Poenitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and this is pretty easy with Style Standard(Keep) CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End in stdclass.inc Andre Good idea. Andre Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like put multiple cariage return to do my page layout feature and then complain that it does not show on screen. two major facts: 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and you cannot understand LyX ... LyX should make TeX easy, not hard. I agree with Jean-Marc on this one. If the intention is to split an environment, the tool used should visually express that. - Martin
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Herbert == Herbert Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Herbert two major facts: Herbert 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX Herbert knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs Herbert If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and Herbert you cannot understand LyX ... That's why I think LyX should not help to create easily these consecutive empty lines. A version with a big label, as Bo proposed is better than that. it is not _easily_ possible to get more than one empty line without this layout. After return you are in standard layout mode! If you want another empty line you have to choose again standard (empty). And it is no problem to place a label with this layout ... But I expected your vote, because in 99,99% of all cases you are against my suggestions ... Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Herbert == Herbert Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Herbert it is not _easily_ possible to get more than one empty line Herbert without this layout. After return you are in standard layout Herbert mode! If you want another empty line you have to choose again Herbert standard (empty). Herbert And it is no problem to place a label with this layout ... Then we agree :) Herbert But I expected your vote, because in 99,99% of all cases you Herbert are against my suggestions ... Let's say we both have personal views on how LaTeX should be used and they don't match. I could also complain that you are against _my_ suggestions... If it looks like I try to actively counter your suggestions, it is a misunderstanding (like I do not try especially to counter Bo's patches). JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Martin Vermeer wrote: I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like put multiple cariage return to do my page layout feature and then complain that it does not show on screen. two major facts: 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and you cannot understand LyX ... LyX should make TeX easy, not hard. I agree with Jean-Marc on this one. If the intention is to split an environment, the tool used should visually express that. The current behaviour is easy! Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Herbert == Herbert Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with Jean-Marc on this one. If the intention is to split an environment, the tool used should visually express that. Herbert The current behaviour is easy! I think so too. JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
OK, I am fed up about this whining people do not like my features, they do not like me. It sounds like Friday, doesn't it. :-) It is quite OK that we have different opinions, and it is OK to me that my proposal is rejected by the majority. Although I respect your (and Jose's) worry about future inset-based solution, I disagree with you (at this particular case) and I had to gather opinions and get enough positive feedbacks to proceed. That is all it is about, nothing personal. Feeling better now? I did not feel bad in the first place. Trust me. Fighting a small battle like this one is fun. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Herbert The current behaviour is easy! But not so easy for lyx newbies. The question is: what to insert that do not show up in the screen output (better latex output), yet split the environment? I remember that it took me 10 minutes to figure that out a few years ago. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: Herbert The current behaviour is easy! But not so easy for lyx newbies. The question is: what to insert that do not show up in the screen output (better latex output), yet split the environment? I remember that it took me 10 minutes to figure that out a few years ago. Style End Environment CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 LeftMarginxxx LabelType Static LabelString --End environment-- LabelFont Series Bold Shape Italic Color red EndFont Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
LeftMarginxxx I also dislike this because this makes it impossible to see the environment depth of this layout. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Style End Environment CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 LeftMarginxxx LabelType Static LabelString --End environment-- LabelFont Series Bold Shape Italic Color red EndFont I prefer a smaller font so I used typewriter, Tiny, with color latex. The style name is more difficult to decide. End environment is appropriate because another type of environment can follow this environment. However, I worried that new users might use this style to end all environments and get confused to realize that this is not needed. 'Split Layout' or 'Split Environment' seem to be better for the cases this style is supposed to be used for. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc files that will end up in almost all layouts. I see from this thread that most people like to have this in. Attached is an updated patch. I put this layout to stdlayout.inc so that it will show up in almost all layouts. The only remaining question seems to be the name and the label of this environment. I will let Jose decide on this. Cheers, Bo Index: src/Buffer.cpp === --- src/Buffer.cpp (revision 18720) +++ src/Buffer.cpp (working copy) @@ -142,7 +142,7 @@ namespace { -int const LYX_FORMAT = 271; +int const LYX_FORMAT = 272; } // namespace anon Index: lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (revision 18720) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (working copy) @@ -77,7 +77,7 @@ (1_2, [220], generate_minor_versions(1.2 , 4)), (1_3, [221], generate_minor_versions(1.3 , 7)), (1_4, range(222,246), generate_minor_versions(1.4 , 4)), - (1_5, range(246,272), generate_minor_versions(1.5 , 0))] + (1_5, range(246,273), generate_minor_versions(1.5 , 0))] def formats_list(): Index: lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (revision 18720) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (working copy) @@ -1656,7 +1656,53 @@ else: del document.header[i] +def revert_splitlayout(document): +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node +From +\begin_layout SplitLayout +something +\end_layout + +to + +\begin_layout Standard +\begin_inset Note Note +status open + +\begin_layout Standard +end evironmnet +\end_layout + +\end_inset +something + +\end_layout + +''' + +i = 0 +while True: +i = find_token(document.body, r'\begin_layout SplitLayout', i) +if i == -1: +break +j = find_end_of_layout(document.body, i + 1) +if j == -1: +# this should not happen +break +document.body[i : j + 1] = [r'\begin_layout Standard', +r'\begin_inset Note Note', +'status open', +'', +r'\begin_layout Standard', +'Split Layout', +r'\end_layout', +'', +r'\end_inset'] + \ +document.body[ i + 1 : j] + \ +['', +r'\end_layout' +] ## # Conversion hub # @@ -1687,10 +1733,12 @@ [268, []], [269, []], [270, []], - [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]] + [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]], + [272, []], ] revert = [ + [271, [revert_splitlayout]], [270, [revert_ext_font_sizes]], [269, [revert_beamer_alert, revert_beamer_structure]], [268, [revert_preamble_listings_params, revert_listings_inset, revert_include_listings]], Index: lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc === --- lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (revision 18720) +++ lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (working copy) @@ -61,5 +61,20 @@ End - - +Style SplitLayout + KeepEmpty 1 + MarginDynamic + LatexType Paragraph + LatexName dummy + ParIndent MM + Align Block + AlignPossible Block + LabelType Static + LabelString --- Split Layout --- + LabelFont + Family typewriter + Series Medium + SizeTiny + Color latex + EndFont +End Index: lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx === --- lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (revision 18720) +++ lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (working copy) @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ #LyX 1.5.0svn created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/ -\lyxformat 263 +\lyxformat 272 \begin_document \begin_header \textclass scrbook @@ -91,8 +91,9 @@ \paperpagestyle default \tracking_changes false \output_changes false -\author usti -\author Uwe Stöhr +\author Bo Peng +\author usti +\author Uwe Stöhr \end_header \begin_body @@ -9278,6 +9279,28 @@ \end_layout +\begin_layout Standard +In case that you want to start a new list immediately after a list, you + can use the +\family sans +SplitStyle +\family default + environment to separate them. + For example +\end_layout + +\begin_layout Enumerate +item1 +\end_layout + +\begin_layout SplitLayout + +\end_layout + +\begin_layout Enumerate +another item1 +\end_layout + \begin_layout
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: I prefer a smaller font so I used typewriter, Tiny, with color latex. I prefer normalsize roman font and red (like beamer pause/endFrame) or blue (like pagebreak). The style name is more difficult to decide. End environment is appropriate because another type of environment can follow this environment. However, I worried that new users might use this style to end all environments and get confused to realize that this is not needed. 'Split Layout' or 'Split Environment' seem to be better for the cases this style is supposed to be used for. I agree. Jürgen
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: > I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, but > this is likely the fate of this patch. > > The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc > files that will end up in almost all layouts. This environment does > not output anything but ends the previous environment. It is used like > > 1. item 1 > --- Split Layout --- > 1. another item 1 what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and this is pretty easy with Style "Standard(Keep)" CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End in stdclass.inc Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
> "Bo" == Bo Peng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Bo> I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, Bo> but this is likely the fate of this patch. Bo> The patch also contains UserGuide.lyx and lyx2lyx changes. If you Bo> like it, please make your voice heard. I need four positive votes Bo> to outnumber our future-oriented masters (who consider this as a Bo> useless ugly hack). OK, I am fed up about this whining "people do not like my features, they do not like me". Put it in. Make it bold in the layout list. Make it turn purple on mouse hover. Put a timer to change all Standard layouts into that new layout after 37 seconds of non-activity. You have my OK for all these things. Feeling better now? JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 09:25:07AM +0200, Herbert Voss wrote: > Bo Peng wrote: > > I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, but > > this is likely the fate of this patch. > > > > The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc > > files that will end up in almost all layouts. This environment does > > not output anything but ends the previous environment. It is used like > > > > 1. item 1 > > --- Split Layout --- > > 1. another item 1 > > what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX > and this is pretty easy with > > Style "Standard(Keep)" > CopyStyle Standard > KeepEmpty 1 > End > > in stdclass.inc Good idea. Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? Andre'
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and >> this is pretty easy with >> >> Style "Standard(Keep)" CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End >> >> in stdclass.inc Andre> Good idea. Andre> Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like "put multiple cariage return to do my page layout" feature and then complain that it does not show on screen. JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>> what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and >>> this is pretty easy with >>> >>> Style "Standard(Keep)" CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End >>> >>> in stdclass.inc > > Andre> Good idea. > > Andre> Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? > > I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like "put > multiple cariage return to do my page layout" feature and then > complain that it does not show on screen. two major facts: 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and you cannot understand LyX ... Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
> "Herbert" == Herbert Voss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Herbert> two major facts: Herbert> 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX Herbert> knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs Herbert> If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and Herbert> you cannot understand LyX ... That's why I think LyX should not help to create easily these consecutive empty lines. A version with a big label, as Bo proposed is better than that. JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:22:44 +0200 Herbert Voss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >>> what you need is nothing else than an empty line inside LyX and > >>> this is pretty easy with > >>> > >>> Style "Standard(Keep)" CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 End > >>> > >>> in stdclass.inc > > > > Andre> Good idea. > > > > Andre> Jose': Ok to prepare a patch for 1.5.0? > > > > I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like "put > > multiple cariage return to do my page layout" feature and then > > complain that it does not show on screen. > > two major facts: > > 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words > 2. TeX knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs > > If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and you > cannot understand LyX ... LyX should make TeX easy, not hard. I agree with Jean-Marc on this one. If the intention is to split an environment, the tool used should visually express that. - Martin
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> "Herbert" == Herbert Voss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Herbert> two major facts: > > Herbert> 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words 2. TeX > Herbert> knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs > > Herbert> If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and > Herbert> you cannot understand LyX ... > > That's why I think LyX should not help to create easily these > consecutive empty lines. A version with a big label, as Bo proposed is > better than that. it is not _easily_ possible to get more than one empty line without this layout. After return you are in standard layout mode! If you want another empty line you have to choose again standard (empty). And it is no problem to place a label with this layout ... But I expected your vote, because in 99,99% of all cases you are against my suggestions ... Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
> "Herbert" == Herbert Voss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Herbert> it is not _easily_ possible to get more than one empty line Herbert> without this layout. After return you are in standard layout Herbert> mode! If you want another empty line you have to choose again Herbert> standard (empty). Herbert> And it is no problem to place a label with this layout ... Then we agree :) Herbert> But I expected your vote, because in 99,99% of all cases you Herbert> are against my suggestions ... Let's say we both have personal views on how LaTeX should be used and they don't match. I could also complain that you are against _my_ suggestions... If it looks like I try to actively counter your suggestions, it is a misunderstanding (like I do not try especially to counter Bo's patches). JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Martin Vermeer wrote: >>> I would advise against that. People will use it as a word-like "put >>> multiple cariage return to do my page layout" feature and then >>> complain that it does not show on screen. >> two major facts: >> >> 1. TeX knows no space ... it is used to split words >> 2. TeX knows no empty lines ... it is used to split paragraphs >> >> If you do not know these facts, you cannot understand TeX and you >> cannot understand LyX ... > > LyX should make TeX easy, not hard. > > I agree with Jean-Marc on this one. If the intention is to split an > environment, > the tool used should visually express that. The current behaviour is easy! Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
> "Herbert" == Herbert Voss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> I agree with Jean-Marc on this one. If the intention is to split an >> environment, the tool used should visually express that. Herbert> The current behaviour is easy! I think so too. JMarc
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
OK, I am fed up about this whining "people do not like my features, they do not like me". It sounds like Friday, doesn't it. :-) It is quite OK that we have different opinions, and it is OK to me that my proposal is rejected by the majority. Although I respect your (and Jose's) worry about future inset-based solution, I disagree with you (at this particular case) and I had to gather opinions and get enough positive feedbacks to proceed. That is all it is about, nothing personal. Feeling better now? I did not feel bad in the first place. Trust me. Fighting a small battle like this one is fun. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Herbert> The current behaviour is easy! But not so easy for lyx newbies. The question is: what to insert that do not show up in the screen output (better latex output), yet split the environment? I remember that it took me 10 minutes to figure that out a few years ago. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: >> Herbert> The current behaviour is easy! > > But not so easy for lyx newbies. The question is: what to insert that > do not show up in the screen output (better latex output), yet split > the environment? I remember that it took me 10 minutes to figure that > out a few years ago. Style "End Environment" CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 LeftMargin"xxx" LabelType Static LabelString "--End environment--" LabelFont Series Bold Shape Italic Color red EndFont Herbert
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
LeftMargin"xxx" I also dislike this because this makes it impossible to see the environment depth of this layout. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Style "End Environment" CopyStyle Standard KeepEmpty 1 LeftMargin"xxx" LabelType Static LabelString "--End environment--" LabelFont Series Bold Shape Italic Color red EndFont I prefer a smaller font so I used typewriter, Tiny, with color latex. The style name is more difficult to decide. End environment is appropriate because another type of environment can follow this environment. However, I worried that new users might use this style to end all environments and get confused to realize that this is not needed. 'Split Layout' or 'Split Environment' seem to be better for the cases this style is supposed to be used for. Cheers, Bo
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc files that will end up in almost all layouts. I see from this thread that most people like to have this in. Attached is an updated patch. I put this layout to stdlayout.inc so that it will show up in almost all layouts. The only remaining question seems to be the name and the label of this environment. I will let Jose decide on this. Cheers, Bo Index: src/Buffer.cpp === --- src/Buffer.cpp (revision 18720) +++ src/Buffer.cpp (working copy) @@ -142,7 +142,7 @@ namespace { -int const LYX_FORMAT = 271; +int const LYX_FORMAT = 272; } // namespace anon Index: lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (revision 18720) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/LyX.py (working copy) @@ -77,7 +77,7 @@ ("1_2", [220], generate_minor_versions("1.2" , 4)), ("1_3", [221], generate_minor_versions("1.3" , 7)), ("1_4", range(222,246), generate_minor_versions("1.4" , 4)), - ("1_5", range(246,272), generate_minor_versions("1.5" , 0))] + ("1_5", range(246,273), generate_minor_versions("1.5" , 0))] def formats_list(): Index: lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py === --- lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (revision 18720) +++ lib/lyx2lyx/lyx_1_5.py (working copy) @@ -1656,7 +1656,53 @@ else: del document.header[i] +def revert_splitlayout(document): +r''' Revert SplitLayout to a lyx node +From +\begin_layout SplitLayout +something +\end_layout + +to + +\begin_layout Standard +\begin_inset Note Note +status open + +\begin_layout Standard +end evironmnet +\end_layout + +\end_inset +something + +\end_layout + +''' + +i = 0 +while True: +i = find_token(document.body, r'\begin_layout SplitLayout', i) +if i == -1: +break +j = find_end_of_layout(document.body, i + 1) +if j == -1: +# this should not happen +break +document.body[i : j + 1] = [r'\begin_layout Standard', +r'\begin_inset Note Note', +'status open', +'', +r'\begin_layout Standard', +'Split Layout', +r'\end_layout', +'', +r'\end_inset'] + \ +document.body[ i + 1 : j] + \ +['', +r'\end_layout' +] ## # Conversion hub # @@ -1687,10 +1733,12 @@ [268, []], [269, []], [270, []], - [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]] + [271, [convert_ext_font_sizes]], + [272, []], ] revert = [ + [271, [revert_splitlayout]], [270, [revert_ext_font_sizes]], [269, [revert_beamer_alert, revert_beamer_structure]], [268, [revert_preamble_listings_params, revert_listings_inset, revert_include_listings]], Index: lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc === --- lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (revision 18720) +++ lib/layouts/stdlayouts.inc (working copy) @@ -61,5 +61,20 @@ End - - +Style SplitLayout + KeepEmpty 1 + MarginDynamic + LatexType Paragraph + LatexName dummy + ParIndent MM + Align Block + AlignPossible Block + LabelType Static + LabelString "--- Split Layout ---" + LabelFont + Family typewriter + Series Medium + SizeTiny + Color latex + EndFont +End Index: lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx === --- lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (revision 18720) +++ lib/doc/UserGuide.lyx (working copy) @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ #LyX 1.5.0svn created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/ -\lyxformat 263 +\lyxformat 272 \begin_document \begin_header \textclass scrbook @@ -91,8 +91,9 @@ \paperpagestyle default \tracking_changes false \output_changes false -\author "usti" -\author "Uwe Stöhr" +\author "Bo Peng" +\author "usti" +\author "Uwe Stöhr" \end_header \begin_body @@ -9278,6 +9279,28 @@ \end_layout +\begin_layout Standard +In case that you want to start a new list immediately after a list, you + can use the +\family sans +SplitStyle +\family default + environment to separate them. + For example +\end_layout + +\begin_layout Enumerate +item1 +\end_layout + +\begin_layout SplitLayout + +\end_layout + +\begin_layout Enumerate +another item1
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Bo Peng wrote: > I prefer a smaller font so I used typewriter, Tiny, with color latex. I prefer normalsize roman font and red (like beamer pause/endFrame) or blue (like pagebreak). > The style name is more difficult to decide. > > End environment is appropriate because another type of environment can > follow this environment. However, I worried that new users might use > this style to end all environments and get confused to realize that > this is not needed. 'Split Layout' or 'Split Environment' seem to be > better for the cases this style is supposed to be used for. I agree. Jürgen
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 09:34:28PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, but this is likely the fate of this patch. The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc files that will end up in almost all layouts. This environment does not output anything but ends the previous environment. It is used like 1. item 1 --- Split Layout --- 1. another item 1 to break consecutive environments. It can be handy for consecutive definitions, proofs etc. A screen shot is attached. The patch also contains UserGuide.lyx and lyx2lyx changes. If you like it, please make your voice heard. I need four positive votes to outnumber our future-oriented masters (who consider this as a useless ugly hack). Cheers, Bo I like it. And the future work needed to get to that box-based solution will be substantial. When the time comes, adding lyx2lyx code to convert this hack will be the smallest of our worries ;-) - Martin
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Martin Vermeer wrote: On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 09:34:28PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: I need four positive votes to outnumber our future-oriented masters (who consider this as a useless ugly hack). I like it. And the future work needed to get to that box-based solution will be substantial. When the time comes, adding lyx2lyx code to convert this hack will be the smallest of our worries ;-) Ugly, yes. Useless, no. As I've said before, this question is seen on the user list fairly frequently. LyX ought to provide some reasonably sensible way to do this. Granted that there might be a better way, but no such other way will appear until at least 1.6, and I'll wager a lot later. So yeah, you get my vote. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 09:34:28PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: > I can not believe that I am hitting a second WONTFIX in two days, but > this is likely the fate of this patch. > > The attached patch adds SplitLayout environment to a few layout/inc > files that will end up in almost all layouts. This environment does > not output anything but ends the previous environment. It is used like > > 1. item 1 > --- Split Layout --- > 1. another item 1 > > to break consecutive environments. It can be handy for consecutive > definitions, proofs etc. A screen shot is attached. > > The patch also contains UserGuide.lyx and lyx2lyx changes. If you like > it, please make your voice heard. I need four positive votes to > outnumber our future-oriented masters (who consider this as a useless > ugly hack). > > Cheers, > Bo I like it. And the future work needed to get to that "box-based" solution will be substantial. When the time comes, adding lyx2lyx code to convert this "hack" will be the smallest of our worries ;-) - Martin
Re: [PATCH] 2697: SplitLayout environment.
Martin Vermeer wrote: On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 09:34:28PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: I need four positive votes to outnumber our future-oriented masters (who consider this as a useless ugly hack). I like it. And the future work needed to get to that "box-based" solution will be substantial. When the time comes, adding lyx2lyx code to convert this "hack" will be the smallest of our worries ;-) Ugly, yes. Useless, no. As I've said before, this question is seen on the user list fairly frequently. LyX ought to provide some reasonably sensible way to do this. Granted that there might be a better way, but no such other way will appear until at least 1.6, and I'll wager a lot later. So yeah, you get my vote. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto