[M100] Tandy 200 available

[Tom Wilson]

Hi, I remember someone on the list was looking for a T200 a while back. I'm
wondering if he's still interested, or if someone else is. I have a T200
that I picked up from EBay that is in pretty good shape.

It appears to have a new NiCd batery. There's writing in the battery cover
with a replacement date.
The biggest flaw I can see is some scratches in the transparent cover over
the screen.

I bought and installed a REX module. So this WILL include REX.

I've decided to stick with the T102, as I'm not using either of the
computers as much as I thought I would, so I'd like to give the folks on
the list the first shot at this computer before I decide whether to post it
on EBay or find a completely ridiculous, but practical use for it.



Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:35 PM Brian K. White  wrote:

> On 4/8/20 10:00 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Brian K. White" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 9:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [M100] Starship Management Software
> >
> >
> >> On 4/8/20 8:09 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:09 PM Peter Vollan  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  I think I have said before that if Virtual T "tokenises on the
> fly"
> >>>  then it teaches us bad habits. And it makes no sense that it does
> this
> >>>  for the m100 but not the NEC.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So what? The habit is yours, break it.
> >>
> >> This sounds familiar.
> >>
> >
> > Sure does; give us a break and spare us another go-around.
>
> I await John's reaction to you telling him how to behave on his own mail
> list. ;)
>
>
I've given Mike "the business" on occasion :-)

But yeah this has already been discussed.

-- John.

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[Brian K. White]

On 4/8/20 10:00 PM, Mike Stein wrote:


- Original Message -
From: "Brian K. White" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Starship Management Software



On 4/8/20 8:09 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:



On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:09 PM Peter Vollan mailto:dprogra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 I think I have said before that if Virtual T "tokenises on the fly"
 then it teaches us bad habits. And it makes no sense that it does this
 for the m100 but not the NEC.


So what? The habit is yours, break it.


This sounds familiar.



Sure does; give us a break and spare us another go-around.


I await John's reaction to you telling him how to behave on his own mail 
list. ;)


--
bkw

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[Mike Stein]

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian K. White" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Starship Management Software


> On 4/8/20 8:09 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:09 PM Peter Vollan > > wrote:
>> 
>> I think I have said before that if Virtual T "tokenises on the fly"
>> then it teaches us bad habits. And it makes no sense that it does this
>> for the m100 but not the NEC.
>> 
>> 
>> So what? The habit is yours, break it.
> 
> This sounds familiar.
> 
> -- 
> bkw

Sure does; give us a break and spare us another go-around.

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[Brian K. White]

On 4/8/20 8:09 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:



On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:09 PM Peter Vollan > wrote:


I think I have said before that if Virtual T "tokenises on the fly"
then it teaches us bad habits. And it makes no sense that it does this
for the m100 but not the NEC.


So what? The habit is yours, break it.


This sounds familiar.

--
bkw

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:09 PM Peter Vollan  wrote:

> I think I have said before that if Virtual T "tokenises on the fly"
> then it teaches us bad habits. And it makes no sense that it does this
> for the m100 but not the NEC.
>
>
So what? The habit is yours, break it.


> BTW I am getting a syntax error from the first "LINE" statement.
>
>
You need to install the LINE extension from web8201. It's not built-in.

-- John.

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[Peter Vollan]

I think I have said before that if Virtual T "tokenises on the fly"
then it teaches us bad habits. And it makes no sense that it does this
for the m100 but not the NEC.

BTW I am getting a syntax error from the first "LINE" statement.

On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 13:52, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:
>
> As a general practice it's better to name files as ASCII files as .DO and 
> tokenized files as .BA
>
> Otherwise you rely on the fallback mechanisms. I guess VirtualT just 
> tokenizes the file on-the-fly. But it doesn't work for NEC.
>
> LaddieAlpha's fallback mechanism is just to present the file with the correct 
> extension depending on tell-tale binary content in tokenized files. But now 
> that you point it out, I haven't tried it with NEC so who knows. I'd give it 
> a 90% chance of doing the right thing.
>
> -- John.

Re: [M100] update- build 260

[Fred Whitaker]

I don’t have access to an 8201. I am interested in one of your 8300 Flash 
ROM’s. I am interested in having my REX loaded with build 260. Let me know what 
to do.
Fred Whitaker

Sent from Mail for Windows 10.

From: Brian K. White
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:43 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] update- build 260

Do you by any chance have an 8201/8201a ?
Mine was loadable fine in a 8201a, and then was usable fine in the 8300.

If you don't have a 8201, if you didn't mind mailing it I could update
it for you and load up whatever option roms you want. There's only a few
anyway.

Separately, tandy.wiki/FlashROM_8300 is verified and works to make a y2k
patched 8300 system rom too if you are able to build it.

Also I have 2 early version FlashROM_8300 all built and working if
anyone wants one for free.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SZYN5RPbF8ptyHUC9

They are an earlier version that has 28 pins like the socket. They're
fine, and even still easily re-writable by just popping the board right
in a programmer's zif socket. It's just a little more complicated to
program than the final 32-pin version because you have to place it in
the programmer in a special way offset by 2 rows, and attach 3 wires to
some pin headers on the board and move a couple jumpers... The final
version just has the extra pins built in is all. Same board otherwise.

I have one with a TSOP-32 chip and one with a PLCC-32 chip.

Just to be clear this is only for PC-8300. 8201 has a completely
different main rom even thought they are both DIP-28. 8201 could use a
plain 27C256 directly.

--
bkw


On 4/8/20 3:59 PM, Fred Whitaker wrote:
> The NEC REX has pins that insert into a socket, unlike the Model 100. I
> am always careful about how I insert the module into it’s socket.
>
> Fred
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Josh Malone 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, April 7, 2020 3:56 PM
> *To: *m...@bitchin100.com 
> *Subject: *Re: [M100] update- build 260
>
> Check the physical insertion of the REX module. I've had that issue with
> bad contacts.
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 3:26 PM Fred Whitaker  > wrote:
>
> Stephen
>
> I also have noticed a problem with installing REX fresh on an NEC
> PC-8300. I have two of them that work, and one that doesn't. I was able
> after about thirty minutes to a fresh install of the REX software on one
> of my NEC machines, but the other one still hangs up during the stage
> where the memory banks are being erased It has to be a subtle difference
> between the 8201 and the 8300 that causes it. I gave up on the one and
> inserted a TS-DOS Rom into it instead of the REX for now.
>
> All of my model 100 computers did well with the update. It was quick and
> easy.
>
> I still prefer the Model 100 keyboard to the NEC PC-8300 keyboard. There
> is a slight difference that takes getting used to. I also prefer the
> Model 100 keyboard to the Notebook PC's that I have. The Capacitance
> mouse is a real nuisance, and I can't usually turn it off.
>
> Fred Whitaker
>
> On 4/6/2020 12:16 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>  > build 260 for REX is on the wiki.  Let me know of any problems.
>  > * Peter's recent bug is fixed
>  > * found a bug in 258 that was serious, on T200
>  >
>  > Regarding the last bug.  T200 has different treatment of .DO files in
>  > RAM compared to other models.  Pointers are used differently.
>  >
>


--
bkw

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[John R. Hogerhuis]

As a general practice it's better to name files as ASCII files as .DO and
tokenized files as .BA

Otherwise you rely on the fallback mechanisms. I guess VirtualT just
tokenizes the file on-the-fly. But it doesn't work for NEC.

LaddieAlpha's fallback mechanism is just to present the file with the
correct extension depending on tell-tale binary content in tokenized files.
But now that you point it out, I haven't tried it with NEC so who knows.
I'd give it a 90% chance of doing the right thing.

-- John.

Re: [M100] update- build 260

[Brian K. White]

Do you by any chance have an 8201/8201a ?
Mine was loadable fine in a 8201a, and then was usable fine in the 8300.

If you don't have a 8201, if you didn't mind mailing it I could update 
it for you and load up whatever option roms you want. There's only a few 
anyway.


Separately, tandy.wiki/FlashROM_8300 is verified and works to make a y2k 
patched 8300 system rom too if you are able to build it.


Also I have 2 early version FlashROM_8300 all built and working if 
anyone wants one for free.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/SZYN5RPbF8ptyHUC9

They are an earlier version that has 28 pins like the socket. They're 
fine, and even still easily re-writable by just popping the board right 
in a programmer's zif socket. It's just a little more complicated to 
program than the final 32-pin version because you have to place it in 
the programmer in a special way offset by 2 rows, and attach 3 wires to 
some pin headers on the board and move a couple jumpers... The final 
version just has the extra pins built in is all. Same board otherwise.


I have one with a TSOP-32 chip and one with a PLCC-32 chip.

Just to be clear this is only for PC-8300. 8201 has a completely 
different main rom even thought they are both DIP-28. 8201 could use a 
plain 27C256 directly.


--
bkw


On 4/8/20 3:59 PM, Fred Whitaker wrote:
The NEC REX has pins that insert into a socket, unlike the Model 100. I 
am always careful about how I insert the module into it’s socket.


Fred

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10


*From: *Josh Malone 
*Sent: *Tuesday, April 7, 2020 3:56 PM
*To: *m...@bitchin100.com 
*Subject: *Re: [M100] update- build 260

Check the physical insertion of the REX module. I've had that issue with 
bad contacts.


On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 3:26 PM Fred Whitaker > wrote:


Stephen

I also have noticed a problem with installing REX fresh on an NEC
PC-8300. I have two of them that work, and one that doesn't. I was able
after about thirty minutes to a fresh install of the REX software on one
of my NEC machines, but the other one still hangs up during the stage
where the memory banks are being erased It has to be a subtle difference
between the 8201 and the 8300 that causes it. I gave up on the one and
inserted a TS-DOS Rom into it instead of the REX for now.

All of my model 100 computers did well with the update. It was quick and
easy.

I still prefer the Model 100 keyboard to the NEC PC-8300 keyboard. There
is a slight difference that takes getting used to. I also prefer the
Model 100 keyboard to the Notebook PC's that I have. The Capacitance
mouse is a real nuisance, and I can't usually turn it off.

Fred Whitaker

On 4/6/2020 12:16 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
 > build 260 for REX is on the wiki.  Let me know of any problems.
 > * Peter's recent bug is fixed
 > * found a bug in 258 that was serious, on T200
 >
 > Regarding the last bug.  T200 has different treatment of .DO files in
 > RAM compared to other models.  Pointers are used differently.
 >




--
bkw

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[Ken Pettit]

Hey Everyone,

In VirtualT, the NEC direct load of a tokenized .BA doesn't work 
correctly because the tokenizer in NEC is different than 
M100/T102/T200.  I don't know if that is what you are trying to do or not.


To load into NEC, you would have to load a non-tokenized .DO file, then 
load the .DO from BASIC and let the NEC native ROM tokenizer do the work.


Ken

On 4/8/20 1:12 PM, Peter Vollan wrote:

Attempting to run your program in Virtual T, it seems that the 8201
emulation is not working. Not only does it hang when I try to load the
program, but the function key labels do not line up properly. I am
using 1.7.

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 01:59, Tom Wilson  wrote:

That's a great idea! Now I want to see a group of gamers sitting around a 
table, using their Model T computers to manage their character sheets


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311
K6ABZ


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:11 PM D10D3 Data  wrote:

I wrote a utility on my NEC 8201A to aid the players in a scifi RPG I run. If 
anyone is curious I've posted the code here:  https://pastebin.com/9EJ7JbDN
It's NEC basic, so it won't run on an M100 without a bit of porting, but if you 
have a NEC or run Virtual-T in NEC mode you can try it out. It's janky and far 
from optimized but it works.
-Jason

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[me]

I may have time on Friday night to crack her open. Thanks for the 
advice. I'll let you know how it turns out.


Turns out I have plenty of de-oxit in the hangar. Now if the spouse will 
just let me leave the house for a bit I can grab some.


On 4/7/20 7:27 PM, B4 Me100 wrote:

This looks like the old oxidation of the contacts problem for the screen.
It is not a cable problem otherwise the rest of the screen would be faulty.

The trick I personally use is to take a piece of thin-ish card and slide
it very, very, very gently along the elastomer material that connects the
screen panel to the board.  You may also want to spray on a little de-oxit
or similar to clean the contacts as you massage the elastomer.

You will need to remove the screen PCB from the case (four screws hold it
in), then the elastomer strip sandwiched between the board and panel will
be visible.  I tend to power up the machine when I do this just so I can
see which rows/cols are being cleaned, but it is not necessary. The rows
appear to be ones controlled on the bottom of the screen towards the left
side of the elastomer strip.  You may also want to look for any general
corrosion around the area.

Just be very careful, they do not need to be moved much.   I have used
this trick on quite a few panels with similar problems and generally it
works very well.

The other option is to remove the screen PCB from the case and see if the
problems clear, sometimes the mere flexing of the screen PCB when it is
removed can fix the problem - over time the boards can warp slightly. This
happened with the last LCD I repaired, removed the screen to clean the
contacts and once it was removed it worked perfectly.  Put it back into
its case and it has been fine ever since.

Quite interesting to put a voice and hand to the email :-D


On 7/4/20, 6:03 PM, "M100 on behalf of me"
 wrote:




Here's a quick vid I made of the screen output. The columns don't really
become apparent until there's a full screen of text on display.

Re: [M100] Missing ROM elements

[me]

Thank you. It occured to me that I should maybe grab the user's manual 
that I took time to download last week. You know, I could probably learn 
a thing or two in there. /knocks head


I bought the T for a purpose and never thought beyond it.

On 4/7/20 6:37 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:
You have to create a blank file called NOTE.DO and ADRS.DO before you 
can use them. Simple matter of going into TEXT and giving them the 
same name.


On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, at 6:13 PM, me wrote:


What I meant to say is this: ADRS.DO not found, NOTE.DO not found. I
thought they were in ROM. Any ideas?

On 4/7/20 6:03 PM, me wrote:
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Last week I reported a dysfunctional T100. It turned out that the
> batteries I bought were already dead. I tested the whole lot with a
> multimeter and all but a few of them were near dead. After returning
> them to Costco, I obtained a fresh pack of AA duracell's and tested
> them before putting them into the machine.
>
> Well, they were not pre-drained.
>
> My machine is operating except the display has about a third of the
> rows aren't outputting pixels and a handful of columns aren't either.
>
> I'm considering a purchase of a T100 sold for parts on ebay and
> swapping out the display. Is this a wise idea or are there tricks up
> yall's sleeve.
>
> As a 46 year old, this is the first time I've ever bought batteries
> from such a major manufacturer of batteries that were already dead. So
> bazaar, but now I know to test them. Sheesh.
>
> Here's a quick vid I made of the screen output. The columns don't
> really become apparent until there's a full screen of text on display.
>
> https://www.omgwtflol.net/nextcloud/index.php/s/HrYAQFxxKty7RSB
>
> Thanks
>

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[Peter Vollan]

Okay, now I've got it. The NEC emulation cannot load a text file as a
basic program as the m100 emulation does, it must have the .do
extension and then be converted.


On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 13:12, Peter Vollan  wrote:
>
> Attempting to run your program in Virtual T, it seems that the 8201
> emulation is not working. Not only does it hang when I try to load the
> program, but the function key labels do not line up properly. I am
> using 1.7.
>
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 01:59, Tom Wilson  wrote:
> >
> > That's a great idea! Now I want to see a group of gamers sitting around a 
> > table, using their Model T computers to manage their character sheets
> >
> >
> > Tom Wilson
> > wilso...@gmail.com
> > (619)940-6311
> > K6ABZ
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:11 PM D10D3 Data  wrote:
> >>
> >> I wrote a utility on my NEC 8201A to aid the players in a scifi RPG I run. 
> >> If anyone is curious I've posted the code here:  
> >> https://pastebin.com/9EJ7JbDN
> >> It's NEC basic, so it won't run on an M100 without a bit of porting, but 
> >> if you have a NEC or run Virtual-T in NEC mode you can try it out. It's 
> >> janky and far from optimized but it works.
> >> -Jason

Re: [M100] Starship Management Software

[Peter Vollan]

Attempting to run your program in Virtual T, it seems that the 8201
emulation is not working. Not only does it hang when I try to load the
program, but the function key labels do not line up properly. I am
using 1.7.

On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 01:59, Tom Wilson  wrote:
>
> That's a great idea! Now I want to see a group of gamers sitting around a 
> table, using their Model T computers to manage their character sheets
>
>
> Tom Wilson
> wilso...@gmail.com
> (619)940-6311
> K6ABZ
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 3:11 PM D10D3 Data  wrote:
>>
>> I wrote a utility on my NEC 8201A to aid the players in a scifi RPG I run. 
>> If anyone is curious I've posted the code here:  
>> https://pastebin.com/9EJ7JbDN
>> It's NEC basic, so it won't run on an M100 without a bit of porting, but if 
>> you have a NEC or run Virtual-T in NEC mode you can try it out. It's janky 
>> and far from optimized but it works.
>> -Jason

Re: [M100] update- build 260

[Fred Whitaker]

The NEC REX has pins that insert into a socket, unlike the Model 100. I am 
always careful about how I insert the module into it’s socket.
Fred

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Josh Malone
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 3:56 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] update- build 260

Check the physical insertion of the REX module. I've had that issue with bad 
contacts.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 3:26 PM Fred Whitaker 
mailto:rrtfw6...@charter.net>> wrote:
Stephen

I also have noticed a problem with installing REX fresh on an NEC
PC-8300. I have two of them that work, and one that doesn't. I was able
after about thirty minutes to a fresh install of the REX software on one
of my NEC machines, but the other one still hangs up during the stage
where the memory banks are being erased It has to be a subtle difference
between the 8201 and the 8300 that causes it. I gave up on the one and
inserted a TS-DOS Rom into it instead of the REX for now.

All of my model 100 computers did well with the update. It was quick and
easy.

I still prefer the Model 100 keyboard to the NEC PC-8300 keyboard. There
is a slight difference that takes getting used to. I also prefer the
Model 100 keyboard to the Notebook PC's that I have. The Capacitance
mouse is a real nuisance, and I can't usually turn it off.

Fred Whitaker

On 4/6/2020 12:16 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
> build 260 for REX is on the wiki.  Let me know of any problems.
> * Peter's recent bug is fixed
> * found a bug in 258 that was serious, on T200
>
> Regarding the last bug.  T200 has different treatment of .DO files in
> RAM compared to other models.  Pointers are used differently.
>

Re: [M100] update- build 260

[Fred Whitaker]

Some computers give you control over the touch pad, and some don't. My 
HP notebook does not, but my Asus notebook does. If you don't have 
control over the touch pad, you can't turn it off if you need to. Some 
computer manufacturers are a lot more consumer friendly.
I learned to type in school using the whole hand. This required me to 
learn the layout of the keyboard. If the keyboard is different from the 
one I learned, it slows down my typing, which can in ideal circumstances 
can exceed 50wpm. I call it a capacitance mouse, because that is the way 
it works. Some are more sensitive than others. I can wave my hand over 
some of them, an inch above the pad, and watch the mouse fly over the 
screen. I find this very annoying.

Fred Whitaker

On 4/7/2020 5:32 PM, Peter Vollan wrote:

Is the "capacitance mouse" the touchpad? FYI I had no problem turning
mine off in Linux.


On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 12:26, Fred Whitaker  wrote:

Stephen

I also have noticed a problem with installing REX fresh on an NEC
PC-8300. I have two of them that work, and one that doesn't. I was able
after about thirty minutes to a fresh install of the REX software on one
of my NEC machines, but the other one still hangs up during the stage
where the memory banks are being erased It has to be a subtle difference
between the 8201 and the 8300 that causes it. I gave up on the one and
inserted a TS-DOS Rom into it instead of the REX for now.

All of my model 100 computers did well with the update. It was quick and
easy.

I still prefer the Model 100 keyboard to the NEC PC-8300 keyboard. There
is a slight difference that takes getting used to. I also prefer the
Model 100 keyboard to the Notebook PC's that I have. The Capacitance
mouse is a real nuisance, and I can't usually turn it off.

Fred Whitaker

On 4/6/2020 12:16 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote:

build 260 for REX is on the wiki.  Let me know of any problems.
* Peter's recent bug is fixed
* found a bug in 258 that was serious, on T200

Regarding the last bug.  T200 has different treatment of .DO files in
RAM compared to other models.  Pointers are used differently.