Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Brian White]

Then perhaps the reason it sometimes makes a difference is from some other
effect, like draining the power rail on an old unit that's marginal or
injecting noise into the power rail or some other line. Regardless, it
happens in reality, which means any theories that disagree are simply
missing something.

bkw

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 9:23 PM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> sound on/ sound off is a software function purely.  look at the schematic.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:30 PM you got me  wrote:
>
>> I have 'seen' SOUND ON/SOUND OFF have an impact on the computer detecting
>> an input signal. It does happen, but may be due to degraded components
>> (capacitors?) within the input path as the analog signal gets turned into
>> TTL.
>> --
>> *From:* M100  on behalf of Stephen
>> Adolph 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2021 12:19 AM
>> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com 
>> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Cassette woes
>>
>> " Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
>> so the computer has more trouble reading it.  "
>>
>>   ah... I disagree.  Sound "on" has no impact.
>> The SID input of the CPU is used solely to detect zero crossings, and
>> that info is used to toggle the PIO that drives the buzzer.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:03 PM Brian K. White 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
>> so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial
>> testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you
>> have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like
>> it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty
>> contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and
>> dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the
>> cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.
>>
>> In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad
>> in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often
>> fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.
>>
>> If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just
>> be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.
>>
>> When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the
>> tape that don't match.
>>
>> In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning,
>> there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to
>> get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player,
>> but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape
>> players.
>>
>> It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have
>> to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the
>> process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system,
>> detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in
>> other parts of the system.
>>
>> Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few
>> different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with
>> most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100,
>> the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically
>> from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest
>> and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the
>> middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that
>> sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder
>> or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little
>> different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries
>> (1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for
>> that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than
>> another due to slight variations in some of the components and things
>> like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from
>> a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later
>> after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have
>> spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that
>> cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years
>> in a very stable and cool environment.
>>
>> But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still
>> actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively
>> simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like
>> maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the
>> player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to
>> compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either
>> (but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4
>> or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old
>> by now and so every 

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Scott McDonnell]

Yeah. Actual "Data Cassettes" that were sold were C10. Just 5 minutes per 
side.But again, it doesn't seem logical that a normal recorder made for audio 
would be affected by this. I think most decent ones had some sort of speed 
control built in.And anyway, this wouldn't be significant when playing back 
from a PC soundcard anyway.
 Original message From: Tom Wilson  Date: 
7/20/21  7:44 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: M100 Mailing List  
Subject: Re: [M100] Cassette woes I always used 60 or 90 minute tapes - mostly 
because that was what I could get for $1-2 at the local drug store. =)Tom 
wilsonwilso...@gmail.com(619)940-6311 On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 4:40 PM Scott 
McDonnell  wrote:Regarding the recommendation for 
using shorter tapes, what I had always been lead to understand is that the 
longer tapes put more of a load on the tape motor, so it can run a bit slower. 
That was for computer specific data cassette decks. Not sure if that holds true 
with a standard deck also. Original message From: Bill Miranda 
 Date: 7/20/21  7:16 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] Cassette woes The only normal bias 
tapes I have are C60 tapes. I know some of the books I read on Archive.org say 
that C20 is the recommended length. Have you had success with C60 tapes or are 
these too long?Thanks for the info. I’ve learned a lot about the cassettes from 
this group.  I just wish I could get it to work! BillOn Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 
5:53 PM Brian K. White  wrote:Yes "sound on" can rob some 
of the signal and/or make it less distinct, 
so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial 
testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you 
have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like 
it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty 
contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and 
dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the 
cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.

In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad 
in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often 
fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.

If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just 
be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.

When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the 
tape that don't match.

In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning, 
there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to 
get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player, 
but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape 
players.

It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have 
to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the 
process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system, 
detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in 
other parts of the system.

Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few 
different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with 
most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100, 
the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically 
from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest 
and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the 
middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that 
sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder 
or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little 
different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries 
(1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for 
that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than 
another due to slight variations in some of the components and things 
like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from 
a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later 
after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have 
spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that 
cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years 
in a very stable and cool environment.

But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still 
actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively 
simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like 
maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the 
player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to 
compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either 
(but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4 
or 5 more and at least one of

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Stephen Adolph]

sound on/ sound off is a software function purely.  look at the schematic.


On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:30 PM you got me  wrote:

> I have 'seen' SOUND ON/SOUND OFF have an impact on the computer detecting
> an input signal. It does happen, but may be due to degraded components
> (capacitors?) within the input path as the analog signal gets turned into
> TTL.
> --
> *From:* M100  on behalf of Stephen
> Adolph 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2021 12:19 AM
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Cassette woes
>
> " Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
> so the computer has more trouble reading it.  "
>
>   ah... I disagree.  Sound "on" has no impact.
> The SID input of the CPU is used solely to detect zero crossings, and that
> info is used to toggle the PIO that drives the buzzer.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:03 PM Brian K. White 
> wrote:
>
> Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
> so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial
> testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you
> have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like
> it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty
> contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and
> dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the
> cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.
>
> In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad
> in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often
> fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.
>
> If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just
> be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.
>
> When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the
> tape that don't match.
>
> In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning,
> there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to
> get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player,
> but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape
> players.
>
> It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have
> to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the
> process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system,
> detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in
> other parts of the system.
>
> Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few
> different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with
> most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100,
> the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically
> from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest
> and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the
> middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that
> sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder
> or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little
> different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries
> (1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for
> that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than
> another due to slight variations in some of the components and things
> like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from
> a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later
> after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have
> spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that
> cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years
> in a very stable and cool environment.
>
> But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still
> actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively
> simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like
> maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the
> player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to
> compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either
> (but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4
> or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old
> by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a
> little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not
> accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old
> weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player making weak
> amplification or not filtering out hum, could be the speed has drifet
> too far out of spec too fas ot too slow or too irregular. It's not like
> brand new ones where you can safely assume that if it i

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[you got me]

I have 'seen' SOUND ON/SOUND OFF have an impact on the computer detecting an 
input signal. It does happen, but may be due to degraded components 
(capacitors?) within the input path as the analog signal gets turned into TTL.

From: M100  on behalf of Stephen Adolph 

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 12:19 AM
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Subject: Re: [M100] Cassette woes

" Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
so the computer has more trouble reading it.  "

  ah... I disagree.  Sound "on" has no impact.
The SID input of the CPU is used solely to detect zero crossings, and that info 
is used to toggle the PIO that drives the buzzer.


On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:03 PM Brian K. White 
mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial
testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you
have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like
it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty
contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and
dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the
cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.

In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad
in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often
fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.

If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just
be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.

When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the
tape that don't match.

In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning,
there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to
get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player,
but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape
players.

It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have
to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the
process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system,
detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in
other parts of the system.

Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few
different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with
most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100,
the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically
from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest
and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the
middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that
sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder
or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little
different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries
(1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for
that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than
another due to slight variations in some of the components and things
like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from
a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later
after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have
spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that
cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years
in a very stable and cool environment.

But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still
actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively
simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like
maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the
player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to
compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either
(but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4
or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old
by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a
little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not
accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old
weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player making weak
amplification or not filtering out hum, could be the speed has drifet
too far out of spec too fas ot too slow or too irregular. It's not like
brand new ones where you can safely assume that if it isn't smashed in
pieces and it works at all, then it's working perfectly within all specs.

In this case I'm guessing you're actually >< this close to working and
it's just something like getting the file name part right, or maybe the
felt pad in the cassette etc.

-

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Stephen Adolph]

" Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
so the computer has more trouble reading it.  "

  ah... I disagree.  Sound "on" has no impact.
The SID input of the CPU is used solely to detect zero crossings, and that
info is used to toggle the PIO that drives the buzzer.


On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:03 PM Brian K. White  wrote:

> Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
> so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial
> testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you
> have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like
> it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty
> contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and
> dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the
> cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.
>
> In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad
> in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often
> fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.
>
> If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just
> be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.
>
> When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the
> tape that don't match.
>
> In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning,
> there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to
> get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player,
> but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape
> players.
>
> It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have
> to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the
> process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system,
> detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in
> other parts of the system.
>
> Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few
> different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with
> most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100,
> the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically
> from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest
> and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the
> middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that
> sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder
> or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little
> different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries
> (1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for
> that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than
> another due to slight variations in some of the components and things
> like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from
> a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later
> after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have
> spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that
> cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years
> in a very stable and cool environment.
>
> But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still
> actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively
> simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like
> maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the
> player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to
> compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either
> (but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4
> or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old
> by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a
> little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not
> accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old
> weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player making weak
> amplification or not filtering out hum, could be the speed has drifet
> too far out of spec too fas ot too slow or too irregular. It's not like
> brand new ones where you can safely assume that if it isn't smashed in
> pieces and it works at all, then it's working perfectly within all specs.
>
> In this case I'm guessing you're actually >< this close to working and
> it's just something like getting the file name part right, or maybe the
> felt pad in the cassette etc.
>
> --
> bkw
>
>
> On 7/20/21 1:32 PM, Bill Miranda wrote:
> > Finally, I was able to get the T102 to say "file found" by manipulating
> > the volume on the cassette.  But, I still couldn't actually load my 4
> > line "hello world" BASIC program that I created.  Was it really this
> > hard to use c

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Bill Miranda]

The only normal bias tapes I have are C60 tapes. I know some of the books I
read on Archive.org say that C20 is the recommended length. Have you had
success with C60 tapes or are these too long?

Thanks for the info. I’ve learned a lot about the cassettes from this
group.  I just wish I could get it to work!

Bill

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 5:53 PM Brian K. White  wrote:

> Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
> so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial
> testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you
> have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like
> it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty
> contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and
> dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the
> cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.
>
> In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad
> in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often
> fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.
>
> If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just
> be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.
>
> When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the
> tape that don't match.
>
> In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning,
> there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to
> get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player,
> but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape
> players.
>
> It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have
> to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the
> process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system,
> detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in
> other parts of the system.
>
> Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few
> different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with
> most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100,
> the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically
> from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest
> and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the
> middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that
> sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder
> or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little
> different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries
> (1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for
> that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than
> another due to slight variations in some of the components and things
> like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from
> a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later
> after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have
> spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that
> cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years
> in a very stable and cool environment.
>
> But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still
> actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively
> simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like
> maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the
> player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to
> compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either
> (but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4
> or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old
> by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a
> little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not
> accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old
> weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player making weak
> amplification or not filtering out hum, could be the speed has drifet
> too far out of spec too fas ot too slow or too irregular. It's not like
> brand new ones where you can safely assume that if it isn't smashed in
> pieces and it works at all, then it's working perfectly within all specs.
>
> In this case I'm guessing you're actually >< this close to working and
> it's just something like getting the file name part right, or maybe the
> felt pad in the cassette etc.
>
> --
> bkw
>
>
> On 7/20/21 1:32 PM, Bill Miranda wrote:
> > Finally, I was able to get the T102 to say "file found" by manipulating
> > the volume on the cassette.  But, I still couldn't actually load my 4
> > line "hello world" BASIC program that I created.  Was it really this
> 

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Tom Wilson]

>
> Someone mentioned plugging into the "MIC" jack. THAT IS WRONG, you have to
> use the "AUX" , "REM" and "EAR" jacks.


Yes, the service manual (4-7) and the M100 owner's manual (pg 189) both say
to use the AUX input on a cassette recorder.

Mic signals are around 1mv RMS, and line (aux) signals are around 1-2v, and
connecting a line level signal to a mic input will usually result in some
pretty awful distortion on the recording. The AUX input is much less
sensitive, and it is designed to handle those 1-2v line level signals.

If you're using a PC to record tape files, you need to do the same thing:
use the LINE IN. If you're looking at the color-coded interface on the back
of the PC, the LINE IN is usually blue. If you don't have a Line In,
usually because you're on a laptop or some kind of small form factor PC,
you'll want to get something like the StarTech 7.1 USB Sound Card, or
something similar. That's around $30 on Amazon.

For those people capturing data on a PC using the cassette interface - what
sampling rates are you using? The cassette modem actually uses 1200/2400
FSK, which averages out to 1500bps or about 1 minute to save 8K of
data.

I'm a little curious about this myself, so I'm going to run this through my
oscilloscope tonight and see what the data actually looks like.  (I mean, I
have this scope sitting here, doing nothing... I might as well use it for
*something* other than a decoration.


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311



On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 2:44 PM Peter Noeth  wrote:

> Someone mentioned plugging into the "MIC" jack. THAT IS WRONG, you have to
> use the "AUX" , "REM" and "EAR" jacks. The "MIC" jack is for a microphone
> (Radio Shack just used one of their standard tape recorders, re-badged for
> their computer line) and if you connect the large grey plug there, you will
> get a greatly distorted recording. The "AUX" jack is for "Line Level" input.
>
> Large Grey Plug - "AUX"
> Small Grey Plug - "REM"
> Large Black Plug - "EAR"
>
> Starting volume should be at "5"
>
> My CCR-81 is very reliable, with the volume set to "5". Reliability in
> loading files is greater when the recorder is used to save them. The
> "pre-recorded" program tapes were made with a modified tape
> duplicating system and are more susceptible to volume setting when loading.
>
> The CCR-82 was more "purpose designed", based on complaints / experience
> with the previous units. Mainly it had an "automatic gain" circuit that
> made playback volume changes less of a problem, and a switch to bypass the
> "REM" jack so you didn't have to keep pulling the little grey plug out to
> Fast Forward / Rewind the tape. The CCR-83 was a "step backwards", but
> similar to the CCR-81.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 19:38:23 -0500
>> From: Bill Miranda 
>> To: M100 List 
>> Subject: [M100] Cassette woes
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> caatrbp9hhba1mnjt4_kxpk0tjmwtxtnp1x2_3qp1erm8env...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I bought a Tandy CR-83 cassette recorder from EBAY that came with a
>> cassette cable for the M100/102. I have two devices that appear to both be
>> working normally but I am unable to load a program or document from a
>> cassette. I tested the cassette recorder by recording some music from my
>> computer by line cable.  If I save a program or document to tape, I can
>> hear the modem noises on the tape if I play it back.  However, I cannot
>> get
>> either a BASIC program or document to load from a cassette on either of my
>> two devices.  Thinking it might be a bad cable, I ordered a new cable from
>> arcadeshopper.com and I get exactly the same result.  I am using Radio
>> Shack C60 normal bias tape.  I also tried to load a wav file from my
>> computer with no luck either.  So what am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Scott McDonnell]

Regarding the recommendation for using shorter tapes, what I had always been 
lead to understand is that the longer tapes put more of a load on the tape 
motor, so it can run a bit slower. That was for computer specific data cassette 
decks. Not sure if that holds true with a standard deck also.
 Original message From: Bill Miranda  
Date: 7/20/21  7:16 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: m...@bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] 
Cassette woes The only normal bias tapes I have are C60 tapes. I know some of 
the books I read on Archive.org say that C20 is the recommended length. Have 
you had success with C60 tapes or are these too long?Thanks for the info. I’ve 
learned a lot about the cassettes from this group.  I just wish I could get it 
to work! BillOn Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 5:53 PM Brian K. White 
 wrote:Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or 
make it less distinct, 
so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial 
testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you 
have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like 
it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty 
contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and 
dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the 
cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.

In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad 
in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often 
fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.

If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just 
be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.

When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the 
tape that don't match.

In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning, 
there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to 
get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player, 
but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape 
players.

It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have 
to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the 
process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system, 
detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in 
other parts of the system.

Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few 
different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with 
most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100, 
the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically 
from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest 
and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the 
middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that 
sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder 
or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little 
different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries 
(1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for 
that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than 
another due to slight variations in some of the components and things 
like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from 
a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later 
after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have 
spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that 
cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years 
in a very stable and cool environment.

But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still 
actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively 
simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like 
maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the 
player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to 
compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either 
(but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4 
or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old 
by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a 
little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not 
accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old 
weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player making weak 
amplification or not filtering out hum, could be the speed has drifet 
too far out of spec too fas ot too slow or too irregular. It's not like 
brand new ones where you can safely assume that if it isn't smashed in 
pieces and it works at all, then it's working perfectly within all specs.

In this case I'm guessing you're actually >< this close to working and 
it's just something l

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Tom Wilson]

I always used 60 or 90 minute tapes - mostly because that was what I could
get for $1-2 at the local drug store. =)


Tom Wilson
wilso...@gmail.com
(619)940-6311



On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 4:40 PM Scott McDonnell 
wrote:

> Regarding the recommendation for using shorter tapes, what I had always
> been lead to understand is that the longer tapes put more of a load on the
> tape motor, so it can run a bit slower. That was for computer specific data
> cassette decks. Not sure if that holds true with a standard deck also.
>
>  Original message 
> From: Bill Miranda 
> Date: 7/20/21 7:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: m...@bitchin100.com
> Subject: Re: [M100] Cassette woes
>
> The only normal bias tapes I have are C60 tapes. I know some of the books
> I read on Archive.org say that C20 is the recommended length. Have you had
> success with C60 tapes or are these too long?
>
> Thanks for the info. I’ve learned a lot about the cassettes from this
> group.  I just wish I could get it to work!
>
> Bill
>
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 5:53 PM Brian K. White 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct,
>> so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial
>> testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you
>> have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like
>> it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty
>> contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and
>> dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the
>> cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.
>>
>> In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad
>> in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often
>> fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.
>>
>> If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just
>> be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.
>>
>> When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the
>> tape that don't match.
>>
>> In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning,
>> there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to
>> get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player,
>> but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape
>> players.
>>
>> It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have
>> to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the
>> process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system,
>> detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in
>> other parts of the system.
>>
>> Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few
>> different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with
>> most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100,
>> the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically
>> from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest
>> and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the
>> middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that
>> sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder
>> or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little
>> different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries
>> (1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for
>> that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than
>> another due to slight variations in some of the components and things
>> like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from
>> a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later
>> after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have
>> spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that
>> cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years
>> in a very stable and cool environment.
>>
>> But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still
>> actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively
>> simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like
>> maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the
>> player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to
>> compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either
>> (but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4
>> or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old
>> by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a
>> little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not
>> accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old
>> weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player maki

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Bill Miranda]

This is really good info. Thanks Peter. 

—-
Bill Miranda

> On Jul 20, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Peter Noeth  wrote:
> 
> 
> Someone mentioned plugging into the "MIC" jack. THAT IS WRONG, you have to 
> use the "AUX" , "REM" and "EAR" jacks. The "MIC" jack is for a microphone 
> (Radio Shack just used one of their standard tape recorders, re-badged for 
> their computer line) and if you connect the large grey plug there, you will 
> get a greatly distorted recording. The "AUX" jack is for "Line Level" input.
> 
> Large Grey Plug - "AUX"
> Small Grey Plug - "REM"
> Large Black Plug - "EAR"
> 
> Starting volume should be at "5"
> 
> My CCR-81 is very reliable, with the volume set to "5". Reliability in 
> loading files is greater when the recorder is used to save them. The 
> "pre-recorded" program tapes were made with a modified tape duplicating 
> system and are more susceptible to volume setting when loading.
> 
> The CCR-82 was more "purpose designed", based on complaints / experience with 
> the previous units. Mainly it had an "automatic gain" circuit that made 
> playback volume changes less of a problem, and a switch to bypass the "REM" 
> jack so you didn't have to keep pulling the little grey plug out to Fast 
> Forward / Rewind the tape. The CCR-83 was a "step backwards", but similar to 
> the CCR-81.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 19:38:23 -0500
>> From: Bill Miranda 
>> To: M100 List 
>> Subject: [M100] Cassette woes
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> I bought a Tandy CR-83 cassette recorder from EBAY that came with a
>> cassette cable for the M100/102. I have two devices that appear to both be
>> working normally but I am unable to load a program or document from a
>> cassette. I tested the cassette recorder by recording some music from my
>> computer by line cable.  If I save a program or document to tape, I can
>> hear the modem noises on the tape if I play it back.  However, I cannot get
>> either a BASIC program or document to load from a cassette on either of my
>> two devices.  Thinking it might be a bad cable, I ordered a new cable from
>> arcadeshopper.com and I get exactly the same result.  I am using Radio
>> Shack C60 normal bias tape.  I also tried to load a wav file from my
>> computer with no luck either.  So what am I doing wrong?
>> 
>> Thanks for your help!
>> 
>> Bill
>> 

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Peter Noeth]

Someone mentioned plugging into the "MIC" jack. THAT IS WRONG, you have to
use the "AUX" , "REM" and "EAR" jacks. The "MIC" jack is for a microphone
(Radio Shack just used one of their standard tape recorders, re-badged for
their computer line) and if you connect the large grey plug there, you will
get a greatly distorted recording. The "AUX" jack is for "Line Level" input.

Large Grey Plug - "AUX"
Small Grey Plug - "REM"
Large Black Plug - "EAR"

Starting volume should be at "5"

My CCR-81 is very reliable, with the volume set to "5". Reliability in
loading files is greater when the recorder is used to save them. The
"pre-recorded" program tapes were made with a modified tape
duplicating system and are more susceptible to volume setting when loading.

The CCR-82 was more "purpose designed", based on complaints / experience
with the previous units. Mainly it had an "automatic gain" circuit that
made playback volume changes less of a problem, and a switch to bypass the
"REM" jack so you didn't have to keep pulling the little grey plug out to
Fast Forward / Rewind the tape. The CCR-83 was a "step backwards", but
similar to the CCR-81.

Regards,

Peter


>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 19:38:23 -0500
> From: Bill Miranda 
> To: M100 List 
> Subject: [M100] Cassette woes
> Message-ID:
> <
> caatrbp9hhba1mnjt4_kxpk0tjmwtxtnp1x2_3qp1erm8env...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I bought a Tandy CR-83 cassette recorder from EBAY that came with a
> cassette cable for the M100/102. I have two devices that appear to both be
> working normally but I am unable to load a program or document from a
> cassette. I tested the cassette recorder by recording some music from my
> computer by line cable.  If I save a program or document to tape, I can
> hear the modem noises on the tape if I play it back.  However, I cannot get
> either a BASIC program or document to load from a cassette on either of my
> two devices.  Thinking it might be a bad cable, I ordered a new cable from
> arcadeshopper.com and I get exactly the same result.  I am using Radio
> Shack C60 normal bias tape.  I also tried to load a wav file from my
> computer with no luck either.  So what am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bill
>
>

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Brian K. White]

Yes "sound on" can rob some of the signal and/or make it less distinct, 
so the computer has more trouble reading it. That was just for initial 
testing to verify that the signal is actually reaching the 100. Once you 
have verified that there is nothing obviously wrong with the signal like 
it's missing entirely or has scratchy corruption like from dirty 
contacts or broken wires or dirty volume pot, or is very muffled and 
dull like from excessively dirty read head or missing felt pad in the 
cassette itself, then you no longer want sound on for actual reading.


In there I just reminded myself something to check: The felt or foam pad 
in the cassette that presses the tape to the head. They are very often 
fallen off and lost from the adhesive drying out after 20-30 years.


If you got "file found" but the file was ignore, I think that might just 
be a matter of matching up the file name at CSAVE time and at CLOAD time.


When you CLOAD you specify a filename, and it ignores any files on the 
tape that don't match.


In general, I've had perfectly expected results with tape. Meaning, 
there is a bit of trial & error dialing-in the right volume setting to 
get it working the first time, and with every new tape or tape player, 
but it's really been no problem, on several different machines and tape 
players.


It just doesn't work all by itself like a disk drive does. You just have 
to be aware of a few things and you are a little more a part of the 
process. Like you the human are one of the components in the system, 
detecting and adjusting for several potential sources of variation in 
other parts of the system.


Like checking the sound quality with SOUND ON, and testing a few 
different volume levels to figure out that "this particular player, with 
most tapes, with fresh batteries, and talking to this particular M100, 
the best volume setting is 7." and you find "7" by testing methodically 
from definitely too-low like 5, all the way to 10, and noting the lowest 
and the highest settings that still work, and using a setting from the 
middle of that range most of the time. And then deviating from that 
sometimes if some particular tape is recorded a little softer or louder 
or is worn from being played a lot, or maybe the sweet spot is a little 
different on rechargeable batteries (1.2v), vs alkoline batteries 
(1.5v), vs using the wall power for the player, or for the 100 too for 
that matter. One M100 might be a little more of less sensitive than 
another due to slight variations in some of the components and things 
like caps aging over time, and things like how one M100 might come from 
a an early manufacturing run and another might come from much later 
after some revisions and component supplier changes, or one may have 
spent the last 35 years in a hot environment or in an environment that 
cycles hot & cold a lot, and another might have spent the last 35 years 
in a very stable and cool environment.


But even with all those sources of potential variation, it still 
actually works pretty well. So I think there is just some relatively 
simple thing you just haven't found yet. It still might be anything like 
maybe you're still doing something wrong, or some problem with the 
player that you don't realize because you don't have 5 other players to 
compare against. The first player I got off ebay  didn't work either 
(but it didn't work at all, no sound at all), and by now I've gotten 4 
or 5 more and at least one of those was bad too. They are all very old 
by now and so every one you get might be bad, and it might be only a 
little bit bad where it seems to work and make noise, but it's not 
accurate enough to actually function for data. Could be slipping old 
weak belts, could be degraded caps in the player making weak 
amplification or not filtering out hum, could be the speed has drifet 
too far out of spec too fas ot too slow or too irregular. It's not like 
brand new ones where you can safely assume that if it isn't smashed in 
pieces and it works at all, then it's working perfectly within all specs.


In this case I'm guessing you're actually >< this close to working and 
it's just something like getting the file name part right, or maybe the 
felt pad in the cassette etc.


--
bkw


On 7/20/21 1:32 PM, Bill Miranda wrote:
Finally, I was able to get the T102 to say "file found" by manipulating 
the volume on the cassette.  But, I still couldn't actually load my 4 
line "hello world" BASIC program that I created.  Was it really this 
hard to use cassette tape back in the day?  I have tried recording 
through the mic jack and through the aux jack on separate tries. Given 
that I am having this problem using two different machines and two 
different cables, it seems to me that my problem must either be with the 
cassette player itself or the way I'm trying to do it.  I suppose it 
could be that I have problems with both machines and that both cables 
are bad, but that seems unlikely to me. I

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[you got me]

For troubleshooting purposes, load a file from a PC.
If the M100 says "I/O" error it generally means that your signal has been 
detected, but is too low.
If the M100 has no response (ie. you DON'T hear a relay clicking) then 
generally the signal is too high for the computer to see.



From: M100  on behalf of Bill Miranda 

Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:32 PM
To: M100 List 
Subject: Re: [M100] Cassette woes

Finally, I was able to get the T102 to say "file found" by manipulating the 
volume on the cassette.  But, I still couldn't actually load my 4 line "hello 
world" BASIC program that I created.  Was it really this hard to use cassette 
tape back in the day?  I have tried recording through the mic jack and through 
the aux jack on separate tries. Given that I am having this problem using two 
different machines and two different cables, it seems to me that my problem 
must either be with the cassette player itself or the way I'm trying to do it.  
I suppose it could be that I have problems with both machines and that both 
cables are bad, but that seems unlikely to me. I'm running out of ideas and 
probably losing enthusiasm for this project. I just thought it would be cool to 
get it working.

Meanwhile, I have a REX and I have it working to transfer files to/from my 
Windows 10 laptop using Laddie Alpha so I'm pretty much good to go. Thanks for 
your help!

Bill


On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:48 PM Brian K. White 
mailto:b.kenyo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 7/19/21 8:38 PM, Bill Miranda wrote:
> I bought a Tandy CR-83 cassette recorder from EBAY that came with a
> cassette cable for the M100/102. I have two devices that appear to both
> be working normally but I am unable to load a program or document from a
> cassette. I tested the cassette recorder by recording some music from my
> computer by line cable.  If I save a program or document to tape, I can
> hear the modem noises on the tape if I play it back.  However, I cannot
> get either a BASIC program or document to load from a cassette on either
> of my two devices.  Thinking it might be a bad cable, I ordered a new
> cable from arcadeshopper.com 
>  and I get
> exactly the same result.  I am using Radio Shack C60 normal bias tape.
> I also tried to load a wav file from my computer with no luck either.
> So what am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bill

if the plugs are only colored without labels:
   red goes in mic
   small goes in rem
   white or black goes in ear
   aux not used

If it's the black & grey cable I don't remember which is mic & which is
ear, so just try both ways, but the main point is, it's EAR not AUX or LINE.

deoxit the volume pot and the jacks

volume on "P" if there is a "P" setting, otherwise start on 6 and go up
from there (I don't know about CCR-83, but CCR-82 has a special "P"
setting that makes the volume perfect automatically, & most others do not)

SOUND ON in basic before doing cload to see if the signal is making it
in to the 100

Maybe put a saved search on ebay for CCR-82 and wait for one to come
along that isn't $50 (and order a belt set because the belts are old and
soft in everything by now, if not totally tuned to goo)

pc or other random modern digital audio recorder/player will always be a
50/50 shot in the dark. M100 wants a high signal strength of 2v
peak-to-peak ideally, and a lot of new devices like phones & computers
headphone jacks don't go that high. Sometimes you can get it to work on
100% volume, sometimes not. You have to be knowledgeable and careful
when recording too, to record as loud as possible without clipping. It's
very likely to record either too faint or too loud and distorted from
clipping, if you don't actually set the input levels when recording.
People do it all the time successfully, but it is yet another case of
having to fiddle with volume levels, and in that case both while
recording and then again while playing back.

There's at least one known working mp3's on line you can download to try
loading from pc without the extra variables from recording.
See DOS100.CO.MP3 from
http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum

--
bkw

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Hi Bill --

No the cassette was never that hard to use. I always found it to be
reliable, at least with a fresh tape.

As Brian mentioned you might try saving and loading to a PC. Audacity works
though you have to dial in settings on it too. But with no moving parts and
old tech involved, it reduces variables to the minimum (volume and gain) so
you can gain confidence with how it should look / is supposed to work.

Also to see how it looks you can use CloudT it doesn't make real audio
files but it hooks the cassette commands to do file transfer in and out of
the emulator.

John.

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 10:32 AM Bill Miranda  wrote:

> Finally, I was able to get the T102 to say "file found" by manipulating
> the volume on the cassette.  But, I still couldn't actually load my 4 line
> "hello world" BASIC program that I created.  Was it really this hard to use
> cassette tape back in the day?  I have tried recording through the mic jack
> and through the aux jack on separate tries. Given that I am having this
> problem using two different machines and two different cables, it seems to
> me that my problem must either be with the cassette player itself or the
> way I'm trying to do it.  I suppose it could be that I have problems with
> both machines and that both cables are bad, but that seems unlikely to me.
> I'm running out of ideas and probably losing enthusiasm for this project. I
> just thought it would be cool to get it working.
>
> Meanwhile, I have a REX and I have it working to transfer files to/from my
> Windows 10 laptop using Laddie Alpha so I'm pretty much good to go. Thanks
> for your help!
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:48 PM Brian K. White 
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/19/21 8:38 PM, Bill Miranda wrote:
>> > I bought a Tandy CR-83 cassette recorder from EBAY that came with a
>> > cassette cable for the M100/102. I have two devices that appear to both
>> > be working normally but I am unable to load a program or document from
>> a
>> > cassette. I tested the cassette recorder by recording some music from
>> my
>> > computer by line cable.  If I save a program or document to tape, I can
>> > hear the modem noises on the tape if I play it back.  However, I cannot
>> > get either a BASIC program or document to load from a cassette on
>> either
>> > of my two devices.  Thinking it might be a bad cable, I ordered a new
>> > cable from arcadeshopper.com  and I get
>> > exactly the same result.  I am using Radio Shack C60 normal bias tape.
>> > I also tried to load a wav file from my computer with no luck either.
>> > So what am I doing wrong?
>> >
>> > Thanks for your help!
>> >
>> > Bill
>>
>> if the plugs are only colored without labels:
>>red goes in mic
>>small goes in rem
>>white or black goes in ear
>>aux not used
>>
>> If it's the black & grey cable I don't remember which is mic & which is
>> ear, so just try both ways, but the main point is, it's EAR not AUX or
>> LINE.
>>
>> deoxit the volume pot and the jacks
>>
>> volume on "P" if there is a "P" setting, otherwise start on 6 and go up
>> from there (I don't know about CCR-83, but CCR-82 has a special "P"
>> setting that makes the volume perfect automatically, & most others do not)
>>
>> SOUND ON in basic before doing cload to see if the signal is making it
>> in to the 100
>>
>> Maybe put a saved search on ebay for CCR-82 and wait for one to come
>> along that isn't $50 (and order a belt set because the belts are old and
>> soft in everything by now, if not totally tuned to goo)
>>
>> pc or other random modern digital audio recorder/player will always be a
>> 50/50 shot in the dark. M100 wants a high signal strength of 2v
>> peak-to-peak ideally, and a lot of new devices like phones & computers
>> headphone jacks don't go that high. Sometimes you can get it to work on
>> 100% volume, sometimes not. You have to be knowledgeable and careful
>> when recording too, to record as loud as possible without clipping. It's
>> very likely to record either too faint or too loud and distorted from
>> clipping, if you don't actually set the input levels when recording.
>> People do it all the time successfully, but it is yet another case of
>> having to fiddle with volume levels, and in that case both while
>> recording and then again while playing back.
>>
>> There's at least one known working mp3's on line you can download to try
>> loading from pc without the extra variables from recording.
>> See DOS100.CO.MP3 from
>>
>> http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum
>>
>> --
>> bkw
>>
>

Re: [M100] Cassette woes

[Bill Miranda]

Finally, I was able to get the T102 to say "file found" by manipulating the
volume on the cassette.  But, I still couldn't actually load my 4 line
"hello world" BASIC program that I created.  Was it really this hard to use
cassette tape back in the day?  I have tried recording through the mic jack
and through the aux jack on separate tries. Given that I am having this
problem using two different machines and two different cables, it seems to
me that my problem must either be with the cassette player itself or the
way I'm trying to do it.  I suppose it could be that I have problems with
both machines and that both cables are bad, but that seems unlikely to me.
I'm running out of ideas and probably losing enthusiasm for this project. I
just thought it would be cool to get it working.

Meanwhile, I have a REX and I have it working to transfer files to/from my
Windows 10 laptop using Laddie Alpha so I'm pretty much good to go. Thanks
for your help!

Bill


On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:48 PM Brian K. White 
wrote:

> On 7/19/21 8:38 PM, Bill Miranda wrote:
> > I bought a Tandy CR-83 cassette recorder from EBAY that came with a
> > cassette cable for the M100/102. I have two devices that appear to both
> > be working normally but I am unable to load a program or document from a
> > cassette. I tested the cassette recorder by recording some music from my
> > computer by line cable.  If I save a program or document to tape, I can
> > hear the modem noises on the tape if I play it back.  However, I cannot
> > get either a BASIC program or document to load from a cassette on either
> > of my two devices.  Thinking it might be a bad cable, I ordered a new
> > cable from arcadeshopper.com  and I get
> > exactly the same result.  I am using Radio Shack C60 normal bias tape.
> > I also tried to load a wav file from my computer with no luck either.
> > So what am I doing wrong?
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> > Bill
>
> if the plugs are only colored without labels:
>red goes in mic
>small goes in rem
>white or black goes in ear
>aux not used
>
> If it's the black & grey cable I don't remember which is mic & which is
> ear, so just try both ways, but the main point is, it's EAR not AUX or
> LINE.
>
> deoxit the volume pot and the jacks
>
> volume on "P" if there is a "P" setting, otherwise start on 6 and go up
> from there (I don't know about CCR-83, but CCR-82 has a special "P"
> setting that makes the volume perfect automatically, & most others do not)
>
> SOUND ON in basic before doing cload to see if the signal is making it
> in to the 100
>
> Maybe put a saved search on ebay for CCR-82 and wait for one to come
> along that isn't $50 (and order a belt set because the belts are old and
> soft in everything by now, if not totally tuned to goo)
>
> pc or other random modern digital audio recorder/player will always be a
> 50/50 shot in the dark. M100 wants a high signal strength of 2v
> peak-to-peak ideally, and a lot of new devices like phones & computers
> headphone jacks don't go that high. Sometimes you can get it to work on
> 100% volume, sometimes not. You have to be knowledgeable and careful
> when recording too, to record as loud as possible without clipping. It's
> very likely to record either too faint or too loud and distorted from
> clipping, if you don't actually set the input levels when recording.
> People do it all the time successfully, but it is yet another case of
> having to fiddle with volume levels, and in that case both while
> recording and then again while playing back.
>
> There's at least one known working mp3's on line you can download to try
> loading from pc without the extra variables from recording.
> See DOS100.CO.MP3 from
>
> http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum
>
> --
> bkw
>

Re: [M100] Why an incorrect COM configuration string still works on the M100/T102

[Brian White]

The same thing is in the TPDD1 manual too, just at 9600 instead of 19200,
and they don't word it as a suggestion in either one, it is just the
directions full stop.

I think the way to stop thinking it's "wrong" is to realize, simply, these
are not directions for how to operate your com port, they are directions
for how to operate a peripheral.

Those are two different jobs.

It's ok that the directions for the disk drive says something slightly
different than the manual for the 100. The disk drives directions job is
only to make the disk drive work. It's not telling you "here is how your
com port works, do this every time you want to use the com port" and it
doesn't say anything like that, so the only error is in reading anything
else into that.

bkw

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 9:00 AM Jeffrey Birt  wrote:

> A few eagle-eyed viewers noticed I used a slightly incorrect configuration
> string in the Backpack Quick Start video. This generalized configuration
> string was used as it works on the model 100, 102, and 200 and in fact was
> suggested in the TANDY TPDD2 manual. But how can it still work if it’s
> wrong? In this video we take a quick look at why using an incorrect COM
> configuration string on the TRS-80 Model 100 / Tandy 102 still works. Join
> us and find out.
>
>
>
> https://youtu.be/auUjU8hdyJo
>
>
>
> Jeff Birt (Hey Birt!)
>

[M100] Why an incorrect COM configuration string still works on the M100/T102

[Jeffrey Birt]

A few eagle-eyed viewers noticed I used a slightly incorrect configuration
string in the Backpack Quick Start video. This generalized configuration
string was used as it works on the model 100, 102, and 200 and in fact was
suggested in the TANDY TPDD2 manual. But how can it still work if it's
wrong? In this video we take a quick look at why using an incorrect COM
configuration string on the TRS-80 Model 100 / Tandy 102 still works. Join
us and find out. 

 

https://youtu.be/auUjU8hdyJo

 

Jeff Birt (Hey Birt!)