Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
Hi Stephen, A good challenge, indeed.. Not 100% certain I'm up for it but I'll give it a look! Send me those mods if you would. Probably the best approach would be to make the same optimization to the display code that you did for the M100. My prior attempts at clearing 200 bytes in the NEC's ROM in order to fit LINE() into NEC BASIC ultimately turned out to be a failure. But your display patch sounds encouraging. A full 170 bytes? That's huge. What the heck was Gates thinking when he coded this thing up. ;-) Gary On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 12:59 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > > yah I think so. It is only slightly larger than the 40 pin socket. should > drop it place. > > I can share the mods I made to the M100 ROM. You might have a hard time to > get a working ROM for NEC. > The reason why is that, on the M100 ROM, I have a patch that creates a BIG > HOLE. I found an optimization in how the video code worked, and my patch > makes something like 170 bytes free in the ROM. > I use that hole to embed code to work around the various changes to back out > / change the calls that use SIM and RIM. > > (The M100 rom does not make use of the undocumented commands of the 8085. > > So it is a good challenge for you Gary- Modify the NEC ROM to work with > NSC800. > > ..Steve > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 3:40 PM Gary Weber wrote: >> >> Great news! >> >> Question for you: I know the dual-CPU board doesn't physically fit >> into the socket space in the NEC machines, but would your single >> NSC800 adapter fit just fine? >> >> Gary >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: >> > >> > Update. >> > I have refined my NSC800 aka Z80 conversion for M100 somewhat. >> > >> > I now have a very simple adapter board that converts the 80c85 socket to >> > accept NSC800. Small and simple. Plug and play. >> > >> > The main rom needs to change to a patched version that I have. To do so, >> > you need to use one of the various means to convert the strange M100 main >> > rom socket to something more standard. >> > >> > Why? >> > >> > Well I am still pushing towards a nice Z80 solution for CP/M. >> > >> > Besides.. the solution is so clean it is really cool. Hard to resist! >> > The M100 could have easily been designed with this processor to begin with. >> > >> > So why not ;) >> > >> > My thinking is to offer this as a simple kit or maybe even just release >> > the board. The BOM is really small. Processor is easy to get off ebay. >> > >> > One thing that would be nice, is a new version of tsdos that avoids all >> > the special 80c85 opcodescompatible with 8080. Then it could run on >> > z80 as well. >> > >> > Even a patched teeny would be fine I suppose. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thursday, July 11, 2019, Stephen Adolph wrote: >> >> >> >> Motivated by 2 things >> >> 1) discovery of the NSC800 Z80 processor that is 80C85 like >> >> 2) continuing to work in the direcition of CP/M >> >> 3) and recalling that there are 5MHz 80C85 parts out there.. >> >> >> >> I started to work on a dual CPU card for M100 that enables a couple of >> >> things; >> >> - standard 2.5MHz 80C85 operation (default) >> >> - switchable clock for 80C85, supporting 5MHz >> >> - switchable CPU enabling NSC800 at 2.5 MHz. >> >> >> >> Board is done and heading to the fab. VHDL is mostly done. >> >> >> >> I don't expect this board will be wildly popular but maybe it has some >> >> interest Double speed M100 seems interesting on it's own, let alone >> >> being able to support Z80 CP/M applications. >> >> >> >> >> >> Any interest? >> >> >> >> I have purchased material to make 5 of these. >> >> >> >> A few more comments. >> >> - to install this board you need to remove the 80C85. that's some effort >> >> to do >> >> - to run at 5MHz you need to upgrade the 81C55 to a 5MHz version. That's >> >> also some effort. >> >> - NSC800 runs about 5$ on ebay. >> >> - fast 80C85 can be had for under 5$. >> >> - fast 81C55 can be had for under 5$. >> >> - to run at 5MHz you might also find you need a faster main ROM, and >> >> faster RAM. TBD on that; will advise after I do some testing. >> >> >> >> >> >>
Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
I agree, it’s fabulously mind-boggling. The recent activity alone on this list has been inspiring. CAM -- C.A. Magaret Sent from my newfangled mobile technogizmo. Please forgive any typos, inelegant brevity, or nonsensical auto-corrections. > On Jul 24, 2020, at 17:07, Chris Fezzler wrote: > > > My head is spinning with the innovation taking place here the last 10 years. > > On Friday, July 24, 2020, 03:59:21 PM EDT, Stephen Adolph > wrote: > > > yah I think so. It is only slightly larger than the 40 pin socket. should > drop it place. > > I can share the mods I made to the M100 ROM. You might have a hard time to > get a working ROM for NEC. > The reason why is that, on the M100 ROM, I have a patch that creates a BIG > HOLE. I found an optimization in how the video code worked, and my patch > makes something like 170 bytes free in the ROM. > I use that hole to embed code to work around the various changes to back out > / change the calls that use SIM and RIM. > > (The M100 rom does not make use of the undocumented commands of the 8085. > > So it is a good challenge for you Gary- Modify the NEC ROM to work with > NSC800. > > ..Steve >
Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
My head is spinning with the innovation taking place here the last 10 years. On Friday, July 24, 2020, 03:59:21 PM EDT, Stephen Adolph wrote: yah I think so. It is only slightly larger than the 40 pin socket. should drop it place. I can share the mods I made to the M100 ROM. You might have a hard time to get a working ROM for NEC.The reason why is that, on the M100 ROM, I have a patch that creates a BIG HOLE. I found an optimization in how the video code worked, and my patch makes something like 170 bytes free in the ROM.I use that hole to embed code to work around the various changes to back out / change the calls that use SIM and RIM. (The M100 rom does not make use of the undocumented commands of the 8085. So it is a good challenge for you Gary- Modify the NEC ROM to work with NSC800. ..Steve On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 3:40 PM Gary Weber wrote: Great news! Question for you: I know the dual-CPU board doesn't physically fit into the socket space in the NEC machines, but would your single NSC800 adapter fit just fine? Gary On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Update. > I have refined my NSC800 aka Z80 conversion for M100 somewhat. > > I now have a very simple adapter board that converts the 80c85 socket to > accept NSC800. Small and simple. Plug and play. > > The main rom needs to change to a patched version that I have. To do so, you > need to use one of the various means to convert the strange M100 main rom > socket to something more standard. > > Why? > > Well I am still pushing towards a nice Z80 solution for CP/M. > > Besides.. the solution is so clean it is really cool. Hard to resist! The > M100 could have easily been designed with this processor to begin with. > > So why not ;) > > My thinking is to offer this as a simple kit or maybe even just release the > board. The BOM is really small. Processor is easy to get off ebay. > > One thing that would be nice, is a new version of tsdos that avoids all the > special 80c85 opcodescompatible with 8080. Then it could run on z80 as > well. > > Even a patched teeny would be fine I suppose. > > > > > On Thursday, July 11, 2019, Stephen Adolph wrote: >> >> Motivated by 2 things >> 1) discovery of the NSC800 Z80 processor that is 80C85 like >> 2) continuing to work in the direcition of CP/M >> 3) and recalling that there are 5MHz 80C85 parts out there.. >> >> I started to work on a dual CPU card for M100 that enables a couple of >> things; >> - standard 2.5MHz 80C85 operation (default) >> - switchable clock for 80C85, supporting 5MHz >> - switchable CPU enabling NSC800 at 2.5 MHz. >> >> Board is done and heading to the fab. VHDL is mostly done. >> >> I don't expect this board will be wildly popular but maybe it has some >> interest Double speed M100 seems interesting on it's own, let alone being >> able to support Z80 CP/M applications. >> >> >> Any interest? >> >> I have purchased material to make 5 of these. >> >> A few more comments. >> - to install this board you need to remove the 80C85. that's some effort to >> do >> - to run at 5MHz you need to upgrade the 81C55 to a 5MHz version. That's >> also some effort. >> - NSC800 runs about 5$ on ebay. >> - fast 80C85 can be had for under 5$. >> - fast 81C55 can be had for under 5$. >> - to run at 5MHz you might also find you need a faster main ROM, and faster >> RAM. TBD on that; will advise after I do some testing. >> >> >>
Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
> On Jul 24, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > I have a patch that creates a BIG HOLE my patch makes something like 170 > bytes free in the ROM. Can I just take a moment to express appreciation for being in a community where 170 bytes is a "BIG HOLE?" Because I love that.
Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
...I found an optimization in how the video code worked... Wow. Good show Steve! OK, Gary - Let's see your stuff... "8) ...
Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
yah I think so. It is only slightly larger than the 40 pin socket. should drop it place. I can share the mods I made to the M100 ROM. You might have a hard time to get a working ROM for NEC. The reason why is that, on the M100 ROM, I have a patch that creates a BIG HOLE. I found an optimization in how the video code worked, and my patch makes something like 170 bytes free in the ROM. I use that hole to embed code to work around the various changes to back out / change the calls that use SIM and RIM. (The M100 rom does not make use of the undocumented commands of the 8085. So it is a good challenge for you Gary- Modify the NEC ROM to work with NSC800. ..Steve On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 3:40 PM Gary Weber wrote: > Great news! > > Question for you: I know the dual-CPU board doesn't physically fit > into the socket space in the NEC machines, but would your single > NSC800 adapter fit just fine? > > Gary > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph > wrote: > > > > Update. > > I have refined my NSC800 aka Z80 conversion for M100 somewhat. > > > > I now have a very simple adapter board that converts the 80c85 socket to > accept NSC800. Small and simple. Plug and play. > > > > The main rom needs to change to a patched version that I have. To do > so, you need to use one of the various means to convert the strange M100 > main rom socket to something more standard. > > > > Why? > > > > Well I am still pushing towards a nice Z80 solution for CP/M. > > > > Besides.. the solution is so clean it is really cool. Hard to resist! > The M100 could have easily been designed with this processor to begin with. > > > > So why not ;) > > > > My thinking is to offer this as a simple kit or maybe even just release > the board. The BOM is really small. Processor is easy to get off ebay. > > > > One thing that would be nice, is a new version of tsdos that avoids all > the special 80c85 opcodescompatible with 8080. Then it could run on > z80 as well. > > > > Even a patched teeny would be fine I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, July 11, 2019, Stephen Adolph wrote: > >> > >> Motivated by 2 things > >> 1) discovery of the NSC800 Z80 processor that is 80C85 like > >> 2) continuing to work in the direcition of CP/M > >> 3) and recalling that there are 5MHz 80C85 parts out there.. > >> > >> I started to work on a dual CPU card for M100 that enables a couple of > things; > >> - standard 2.5MHz 80C85 operation (default) > >> - switchable clock for 80C85, supporting 5MHz > >> - switchable CPU enabling NSC800 at 2.5 MHz. > >> > >> Board is done and heading to the fab. VHDL is mostly done. > >> > >> I don't expect this board will be wildly popular but maybe it has some > interest Double speed M100 seems interesting on it's own, let alone being > able to support Z80 CP/M applications. > >> > >> > >> Any interest? > >> > >> I have purchased material to make 5 of these. > >> > >> A few more comments. > >> - to install this board you need to remove the 80C85. that's some > effort to do > >> - to run at 5MHz you need to upgrade the 81C55 to a 5MHz version. > That's also some effort. > >> - NSC800 runs about 5$ on ebay. > >> - fast 80C85 can be had for under 5$. > >> - fast 81C55 can be had for under 5$. > >> - to run at 5MHz you might also find you need a faster main ROM, and > faster RAM. TBD on that; will advise after I do some testing. > >> > >> > >> >
Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
Great news! Question for you: I know the dual-CPU board doesn't physically fit into the socket space in the NEC machines, but would your single NSC800 adapter fit just fine? Gary On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:38 PM Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Update. > I have refined my NSC800 aka Z80 conversion for M100 somewhat. > > I now have a very simple adapter board that converts the 80c85 socket to > accept NSC800. Small and simple. Plug and play. > > The main rom needs to change to a patched version that I have. To do so, you > need to use one of the various means to convert the strange M100 main rom > socket to something more standard. > > Why? > > Well I am still pushing towards a nice Z80 solution for CP/M. > > Besides.. the solution is so clean it is really cool. Hard to resist! The > M100 could have easily been designed with this processor to begin with. > > So why not ;) > > My thinking is to offer this as a simple kit or maybe even just release the > board. The BOM is really small. Processor is easy to get off ebay. > > One thing that would be nice, is a new version of tsdos that avoids all the > special 80c85 opcodescompatible with 8080. Then it could run on z80 as > well. > > Even a patched teeny would be fine I suppose. > > > > > On Thursday, July 11, 2019, Stephen Adolph wrote: >> >> Motivated by 2 things >> 1) discovery of the NSC800 Z80 processor that is 80C85 like >> 2) continuing to work in the direcition of CP/M >> 3) and recalling that there are 5MHz 80C85 parts out there.. >> >> I started to work on a dual CPU card for M100 that enables a couple of >> things; >> - standard 2.5MHz 80C85 operation (default) >> - switchable clock for 80C85, supporting 5MHz >> - switchable CPU enabling NSC800 at 2.5 MHz. >> >> Board is done and heading to the fab. VHDL is mostly done. >> >> I don't expect this board will be wildly popular but maybe it has some >> interest Double speed M100 seems interesting on it's own, let alone being >> able to support Z80 CP/M applications. >> >> >> Any interest? >> >> I have purchased material to make 5 of these. >> >> A few more comments. >> - to install this board you need to remove the 80C85. that's some effort to >> do >> - to run at 5MHz you need to upgrade the 81C55 to a 5MHz version. That's >> also some effort. >> - NSC800 runs about 5$ on ebay. >> - fast 80C85 can be had for under 5$. >> - fast 81C55 can be had for under 5$. >> - to run at 5MHz you might also find you need a faster main ROM, and faster >> RAM. TBD on that; will advise after I do some testing. >> >> >>
Re: [M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
On 7/23/20 10:38 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: Update. I have refined my NSC800 aka Z80 conversion for M100 somewhat. ... One thing that would be nice, is a new version of tsdos that avoids all the special 80c85 opcodescompatible with 8080. Then it could run on z80 as well. Even a patched teeny would be fine I suppose. It's so cool to see a visionary really sinking his teeth into a project! A Z80-ified ModelT running CP/M and ZSystem... I just had an inspiration: embed something like the um, what was it called, TinyTerm?, module inside the case with a video out jack that would let you plug in one of those cheap tft displays off eBay to get an 80x24 terminal... -- Bruce H. McIntosh bhmcint...@gmail.com www.afn.org/~scotsman WA4UF Network geek with a strong affinity for Telecasters
[M100] NDC800 conversion was Re: dual CPU project
Update. I have refined my NSC800 aka Z80 conversion for M100 somewhat. I now have a very simple adapter board that converts the 80c85 socket to accept NSC800. Small and simple. Plug and play. The main rom needs to change to a patched version that I have. To do so, you need to use one of the various means to convert the strange M100 main rom socket to something more standard. Why? Well I am still pushing towards a nice Z80 solution for CP/M. Besides.. the solution is so clean it is really cool. Hard to resist! The M100 could have easily been designed with this processor to begin with. So why not ;) My thinking is to offer this as a simple kit or maybe even just release the board. The BOM is really small. Processor is easy to get off ebay. One thing that would be nice, is a new version of tsdos that avoids all the special 80c85 opcodescompatible with 8080. Then it could run on z80 as well. Even a patched teeny would be fine I suppose. On Thursday, July 11, 2019, Stephen Adolph wrote: > Motivated by 2 things > 1) discovery of the NSC800 Z80 processor that is 80C85 like > 2) continuing to work in the direcition of CP/M > 3) and recalling that there are 5MHz 80C85 parts out there.. > > I started to work on a dual CPU card for M100 that enables a couple of > things; > - standard 2.5MHz 80C85 operation (default) > - switchable clock for 80C85, supporting 5MHz > - switchable CPU enabling NSC800 at 2.5 MHz. > > Board is done and heading to the fab. VHDL is mostly done. > > I don't expect this board will be wildly popular but maybe it has some > interest Double speed M100 seems interesting on it's own, let alone being > able to support Z80 CP/M applications. > > > Any interest? > > I have purchased material to make 5 of these. > > A few more comments. > - to install this board you need to remove the 80C85. that's some effort > to do > - to run at 5MHz you need to upgrade the 81C55 to a 5MHz version. That's > also some effort. > - NSC800 runs about 5$ on ebay. > - fast 80C85 can be had for under 5$. > - fast 81C55 can be had for under 5$. > - to run at 5MHz you might also find you need a faster main ROM, and > faster RAM. TBD on that; will advise after I do some testing. > > > >
