Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Christian Schöpplein]

Hi,

Am 24.06.2014 um 18:01 schrieb Travis Siegel :
> As mentioned before, search the list archives.  I posted a message here a 
> couple years ago (in the leopard days) with a configuration that makes vo 
> work better with terminal.  It's largely a matter of changing the cursor 
> type, and changing things to track that new type of cursor.  It's relatively 
> simple to modify settings on the fly too, if you're in a program like mutt, 
> pine, or something similar that uses highlight tracking, the terminal has a 
> setting for that, just change your cursor type, and all works well.

Unfortunatly not for me, but I’ll take a look at your description, maybe I 
missed something.

Here is the direct link to your mail in the archive:

http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/2010/004769.html

Cheers,

  Christian


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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Travis Siegel]

As mentioned before, search the list archives.  I posted a message  
here a couple years ago (in the leopard days) with a configuration  
that makes vo work better with terminal.  It's largely a matter of  
changing the cursor type, and changing things to track that new type  
of cursor.  It's relatively simple to modify settings on the fly too,  
if you're in a program like mutt, pine, or something similar that uses  
highlight tracking, the terminal has a setting for that, just change  
your cursor type, and all works well.  Admittedly, it's irritating to  
have to keep switching back and forth, but since I don't have the  
latest osx, I can't work on a solution for that.
I use terminal daily, and have very very few issues with it, and I'm  
still using leopard on this imac, though I have used snowleopard, and  
found few (if any) differences in terminal access.


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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Christian Schoepplein]

Hi Jason,

On Di, Jun 24, 2014 at 06:49:14 +1000, Jason White wrote:
>Christian Schoepplein  wrote:
>> Another solution to have a good system with good support for textbased 
>> enviroments is to install a virtual machine with linux and for example 
>> speakup.
> 
>Yes, I have friends who have done this, but they also have other reasons to
>run virtual machines.

Yes, I also have to run Win7 in a VM for several tasks, so the better 
terminal support and a good linux screenreader is not the only reason 
for VMware Fusion on my Mac OS host system :-).

>> I use this aproach at the moment because of the mensioned problems with 
>> VO in the terminal, it works good for me, but ofcourse it would be 
>> better not to use a vm.
>
>Yes, unless you're doing it for other reasons of course. Apparently, BRLTTY
>can also be made to work in a virtual machine under OS X. Furthermore,,, you
>can run Linux directly on some Mac hardware, dual-booted with OS X or by
>completely replacing OS X with Linux. I've never tried this, but I've read
>about it.

Yes, I know of all that possebilities, but for me one reason to use Mac 
OS was that it is a stable and modern system with good screen reader 
support for the graphical environment, which is much better then the 
support for graphic mode in linux with gnome and orca. Aditionaly I 
hoped that also the terminal can be used without big problems, I'm 
administrating many linux systems in my job and I have to do many tasks 
via shell, but unfortunatly there are the problems we allready discussed 
before :-(. 

Better terminal support with VoiceOver would be great, then Mac OS would 
be the perfect system for my needs...

Cheers,

  Christian

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Christian Schoepplein  wrote:
 
> Thanks for this link.
> 

My pleasure.
> Another solution to have a good system with good support for textbased 
> enviroments is to install a virtual machine with linux and for example 
> speakup.
> 

Yes, I have friends who have done this, but they also have other reasons to
run virtual machines.
> I use this aproach at the moment because of the mensioned problems with 
> VO in the terminal, it works good for me, but ofcourse it would be 
> better not to use a vm.
> 

Yes, unless you're doing it for other reasons of course. Apparently, BRLTTY
can also be made to work in a virtual machine under OS X. Furthermore,,, you
can run Linux directly on some Mac hardware, dual-booted with OS X or by
completely replacing OS X with Linux. I've never tried this, but I've read
about it.

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Christian Schoepplein]

On Di, Jun 24, 2014 at 09:54:37 +1000, Jason White wrote:
>Sean Murphy  wrote:
>> I also wish to install EmacSpeak if it uses the Apple speech to learn it. Is 
>> there a simple how to guide on configuring the Mac and EmacSpeak?
>
>http://e-mac-speak.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/e-mac-speak-howto.org

Thanks for this link.

Another solution to have a good system with good support for textbased 
enviroments is to install a virtual machine with linux and for example 
speakup.

I use this aproach at the moment because of the mensioned problems with 
VO in the terminal, it works good for me, but ofcourse it would be 
better not to use a vm.

Cheers,

  Christian

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Christian Schoepplein]

Hi,

On Di, Jun 24, 2014 at 09:34:15 +1000, Sean Murphy wrote:
>I think we should compile the short comings of the terminal app and 
>send them to Apple Accessibility. They might or might not know the 
>short comings. 

Good idea. IMHO only a few little things have to be fixed that VO can a 
good screenreader for the terminal too.

Cheers,

  Christian

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Sean Murphy  wrote:
> Jason,
> 
> I also wish to install EmacSpeak if it uses the Apple speech to learn it. Is 
> there a simple how to guide on configuring the Mac and EmacSpeak?

http://e-mac-speak.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/e-mac-speak-howto.org

The speech server for OS X is included in Emacspeak. I haven't tried to follow
these instructions yet, so I don't know whether they're up to date.

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Sean Murphy]

Jason,

I also wish to install EmacSpeak if it uses the Apple speech to learn it. Is 
there a simple how to guide on configuring the Mac and EmacSpeak?

Sean 
On 24 Jun 2014, at 1:10 am, Christian Schoepplein  wrote:

> Hi Jason,
> 
> On Mo, Jun 23, 2014 at 06:16:01 +1000, Jason White wrote:
>> Christian Schoepplein  wrote:
>> 
>>> One big issue is, that VoiceOver is not focusing the cursor possition 
>>> all the times correctly. Try opening a file with vi and navigate in the 
>>> file with arrow up and down to get spoken the current line. You will 
>>> see, that VoiceOver sometimes reads the wrong line, sometimes the line 
>>> above or below.
>>> 
>>> Then try to use a program like mutt, my favorite mail programm :-). 
>> 
>> Mine too.
> 
> *lol* Yes, there is nothing better :-).
> 
>>> There you also notice the focusing problems but also that VoiceOver is 
>>> not able to track a softcursor, which is used in many of textbased 
>>> tools.
>>> 
>> 
>> Adding the following line to your ~/.muttrc file might help:
>> set braille_friendly=yes
>> 
>> Mutt doesn't use a soft-cursor by default anyway.
> 
> I'm not sure if this setting for mutt will help. From the mutt manual:
> 
> -
> 3.23. braille_friendly
> 
> Type: boolean
> Default: no
> 
> When this variable is set, mutt will place the cursor at the beginning 
> of the
> current line in menus, even when the $arrow_cursor variable is unset, 
> making it
> easier for blind persons using Braille displays to follow these menus. 
> The
> option is unset by default because many visual terminals don't permit 
> making
> the cursor invisible.
> -
> 
> The problem isn't the not displayed cursor, but that VO does not track 
> the cursor in some situations. For example, if you are in the message 
> list and press "/" to search a particular message, VO keeps focusing the 
> selected message in the list and does not jump to the bottom of the 
> screen into the field where the searchterm can be inserted.
> 
> I'll try the mutt setting, maybe it helps, but I believe it will not 
> :-(.
> 
> And ofcourse that will not change the problem with the lines that are 
> not read corect in editors or in the shell.
> 
>>> Maybe the problems described above can be solved by changing some 
>>> settings for VoiceOver or for the terminal, but I've not found out what 
>>> needs to be changed :-(. But those both problems are the major show 
>>> stoppers for a good terminal support in Mac OS in my opinion :-(.
>> 
>> It looks nasty. I'm a very intensive terminal user and that isn't going to
>> change, so if anyone knows a good solution to the above, suggestions would be
>> welcome.
> 
> There've been some hints how to configure the terminal to get VO work 
> better, but they did not work for me :-(.
> 
> Regards from Munich,
> 
>  Christian
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
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> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Sean Murphy]

Team,


I think we should compile the short comings of the terminal app and send them 
to Apple Accessibility. They might or might not know the short comings. 

Do you know how the screen app manages the cursor and if there is any settings 
to improve this?

Since Vo only speaks the last half of the prompt when you are accessing a 
different device. 

Sean 
On 24 Jun 2014, at 1:10 am, Christian Schoepplein  wrote:

> Hi Jason,
> 
> On Mo, Jun 23, 2014 at 06:16:01 +1000, Jason White wrote:
>> Christian Schoepplein  wrote:
>> 
>>> One big issue is, that VoiceOver is not focusing the cursor possition 
>>> all the times correctly. Try opening a file with vi and navigate in the 
>>> file with arrow up and down to get spoken the current line. You will 
>>> see, that VoiceOver sometimes reads the wrong line, sometimes the line 
>>> above or below.
>>> 
>>> Then try to use a program like mutt, my favorite mail programm :-). 
>> 
>> Mine too.
> 
> *lol* Yes, there is nothing better :-).
> 
>>> There you also notice the focusing problems but also that VoiceOver is 
>>> not able to track a softcursor, which is used in many of textbased 
>>> tools.
>>> 
>> 
>> Adding the following line to your ~/.muttrc file might help:
>> set braille_friendly=yes
>> 
>> Mutt doesn't use a soft-cursor by default anyway.
> 
> I'm not sure if this setting for mutt will help. From the mutt manual:
> 
> -
> 3.23. braille_friendly
> 
> Type: boolean
> Default: no
> 
> When this variable is set, mutt will place the cursor at the beginning 
> of the
> current line in menus, even when the $arrow_cursor variable is unset, 
> making it
> easier for blind persons using Braille displays to follow these menus. 
> The
> option is unset by default because many visual terminals don't permit 
> making
> the cursor invisible.
> -
> 
> The problem isn't the not displayed cursor, but that VO does not track 
> the cursor in some situations. For example, if you are in the message 
> list and press "/" to search a particular message, VO keeps focusing the 
> selected message in the list and does not jump to the bottom of the 
> screen into the field where the searchterm can be inserted.
> 
> I'll try the mutt setting, maybe it helps, but I believe it will not 
> :-(.
> 
> And ofcourse that will not change the problem with the lines that are 
> not read corect in editors or in the shell.
> 
>>> Maybe the problems described above can be solved by changing some 
>>> settings for VoiceOver or for the terminal, but I've not found out what 
>>> needs to be changed :-(. But those both problems are the major show 
>>> stoppers for a good terminal support in Mac OS in my opinion :-(.
>> 
>> It looks nasty. I'm a very intensive terminal user and that isn't going to
>> change, so if anyone knows a good solution to the above, suggestions would be
>> welcome.
> 
> There've been some hints how to configure the terminal to get VO work 
> better, but they did not work for me :-(.
> 
> Regards from Munich,
> 
>  Christian
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we do our very best to ensure that 
> the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
> strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
> unpredictable happen.
> 
> Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
> visiting the list website at:
> 
> 

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Christian Schoepplein]

Hi Jason,

On Mo, Jun 23, 2014 at 06:16:01 +1000, Jason White wrote:
>Christian Schoepplein  wrote:
> 
>> One big issue is, that VoiceOver is not focusing the cursor possition 
>> all the times correctly. Try opening a file with vi and navigate in the 
>> file with arrow up and down to get spoken the current line. You will 
>> see, that VoiceOver sometimes reads the wrong line, sometimes the line 
>> above or below.
>> 
>> Then try to use a program like mutt, my favorite mail programm :-). 
>
>Mine too.

*lol* Yes, there is nothing better :-).

>> There you also notice the focusing problems but also that VoiceOver is 
>> not able to track a softcursor, which is used in many of textbased 
>> tools.
>> 
>
>Adding the following line to your ~/.muttrc file might help:
>set braille_friendly=yes
>
>Mutt doesn't use a soft-cursor by default anyway.

I'm not sure if this setting for mutt will help. From the mutt manual:

-
3.23. braille_friendly

Type: boolean
Default: no

When this variable is set, mutt will place the cursor at the beginning 
of the
current line in menus, even when the $arrow_cursor variable is unset, 
making it
easier for blind persons using Braille displays to follow these menus. 
The
option is unset by default because many visual terminals don't permit 
making
the cursor invisible.
-

The problem isn't the not displayed cursor, but that VO does not track 
the cursor in some situations. For example, if you are in the message 
list and press "/" to search a particular message, VO keeps focusing the 
selected message in the list and does not jump to the bottom of the 
screen into the field where the searchterm can be inserted.

I'll try the mutt setting, maybe it helps, but I believe it will not 
:-(.

And ofcourse that will not change the problem with the lines that are 
not read corect in editors or in the shell.

>> Maybe the problems described above can be solved by changing some 
>> settings for VoiceOver or for the terminal, but I've not found out what 
>> needs to be changed :-(. But those both problems are the major show 
>> stoppers for a good terminal support in Mac OS in my opinion :-(.
>
>It looks nasty. I'm a very intensive terminal user and that isn't going to
>change, so if anyone knows a good solution to the above, suggestions would be
>welcome.

There've been some hints how to configure the terminal to get VO work 
better, but they did not work for me :-(.

Regards from Munich,

  Christian

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.
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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Christian Schoepplein  wrote:
 
> One big issue is, that VoiceOver is not focusing the cursor possition 
> all the times correctly. Try opening a file with vi and navigate in the 
> file with arrow up and down to get spoken the current line. You will 
> see, that VoiceOver sometimes reads the wrong line, sometimes the line 
> above or below.
> 
> Then try to use a program like mutt, my favorite mail programm :-). 

Mine too.
> There you also notice the focusing problems but also that VoiceOver is 
> not able to track a softcursor, which is used in many of textbased 
> tools.
> 

Adding the following line to your ~/.muttrc file might help:
set braille_friendly=yes

Mutt doesn't use a soft-cursor by default anyway.

> Maybe the problems described above can be solved by changing some 
> settings for VoiceOver or for the terminal, but I've not found out what 
> needs to be changed :-(. But those both problems are the major show 
> stoppers for a good terminal support in Mac OS in my opinion :-(.

It looks nasty. I'm a very intensive terminal user and that isn't going to
change, so if anyone knows a good solution to the above, suggestions would be
welcome.

I'm planning to install Emacspeak, but that will only solve it for speech
output, not for my braille display.

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.
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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Christian Schoepplein]

On Mo, Jun 23, 2014 at 09:55:23 +1000, Sean Murphy wrote:
>Jason and all.
>The commands you have outlined are standard Linux/Unix commands.

Yes, they are. But in my opinion and regarding what I've noticed while 
working in the Mac OS X terminal, there are bigger problems then the 
keyboard commands.

One big issue is, that VoiceOver is not focusing the cursor possition 
all the times correctly. Try opening a file with vi and navigate in the 
file with arrow up and down to get spoken the current line. You will 
see, that VoiceOver sometimes reads the wrong line, sometimes the line 
above or below.

Then try to use a program like mutt, my favorite mail programm :-). 
There you also notice the focusing problems but also that VoiceOver is 
not able to track a softcursor, which is used in many of textbased 
tools.

Maybe the problems described above can be solved by changing some 
settings for VoiceOver or for the terminal, but I've not found out what 
needs to be changed :-(. But those both problems are the major show 
stoppers for a good terminal support in Mac OS in my opinion :-(.

Cheers,

  Christian

-- 
Christian Schoepplein -  - http://schoeppi.net

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.
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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Sean Murphy  wrote:
> Jason and all.
> 
> The commands you have outlined are standard Linux/Unix commands. They do not
> control the history of outputs. when I refer to history of outputs, I am not
> talking about the history of commands.  I am talking about when you use
> vi-up arrow multiple times to review the last outputs that have been printed
> to the screen. Such as syslog or config files. You cannot move the VO cursor
> to the beginning or end of the line. 

Sorry, I actually knew this is what you meant, and I wasn't trying to
contradict what you wrote. I should have made this clearer in my reply.

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Sean Murphy]

Jason and all.

The commands you have outlined are standard Linux/Unix commands. They do not 
control the history of outputs. when I refer to history of outputs, I am not 
talking about the history of commands.  I am talking about when you use vi-up 
arrow multiple times to review the last outputs that have been printed to the 
screen. Such as syslog or config files. You cannot move the VO cursor to the 
beginning or end of the line. As you have already stated, you can move to the 
beginning or end of the terminal (keyboard) line. 

Sean 
On 22 Jun 2014, at 9:37 am, Jason White  wrote:

> Actually, some of the Emacs keys, such as ctrl-a to move the cursor to the
> beginning of a line, ctrl-e to move it to the end of a line, ctrl-k to delete
> from cursor to end of line, ctrl-b and ctrl-f to move back/forward by
> characters, etc., are supported in OS X, according to this page:
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1343
> 
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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Sarah k Alawami]

OOO cool! I'll have to book mark that.  I don't know the terminal as well as 
I'd like, and someone wants me to do a series set on it. lol! NOt yet.  but 
this is a start for me to learn some cool and convenient stuff. 
On Jun 21, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Jason White  wrote:

> Actually, some of the Emacs keys, such as ctrl-a to move the cursor to the
> beginning of a line, ctrl-e to move it to the end of a line, ctrl-k to delete
> from cursor to end of line, ctrl-b and ctrl-f to move back/forward by
> characters, etc., are supported in OS X, according to this page:
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1343
> 
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> 
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> mac-access@mac-access.net
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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Actually, some of the Emacs keys, such as ctrl-a to move the cursor to the
beginning of a line, ctrl-e to move it to the end of a line, ctrl-k to delete
from cursor to end of line, ctrl-b and ctrl-f to move back/forward by
characters, etc., are supported in OS X, according to this page:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1343

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Georgina Joyce]

Hello,

I don’t know if there are buffer commands that would navigate as discussed. 
However, beginning and end of lines and clear work. ctrl + A E U respectively.

Gena
On 21 Jun 2014, at 01:40, Sean Murphy  wrote:

> Jason,
> 
> The fn vo (control option) left arrow or down arrow takes you to the top or 
> bottom of the window or in this example the top/bottom  of the buffer. 
> 
> control option command shift left, right, up and down arrows are meant to 
> move to the beinging/end etc of lines. They don’t work in Terminal.
> 
> Sean 
> On 20 Jun 2014, at 9:00 pm, Jason White  wrote:
> 
>> Jason White  wrote:
>> 
>>> And I haven't found any that will take me to the first or last line in the
>>> buffer.
>> 
>> Ctrl-option-fn-left arrow and ctrl-option-fn-right arrow, respectively, move
>> to the top/bottom of the text in the terminal, if I'm understanding 
>> correctly.
>> 
>> Ctrl-option-b reads from the start of the shell session, i.e., the scrollback
>> buffer, at least in my experiments this evening. If I run, for example, a man
>> command, speech usually stops well before it has read the entire output and I
>> have to go back to review it.
>> 
>> The braille display is currently connected to a Linux machine, but I'm going
>> to try it with VoiceOver on the laptop this weekend.
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Gena
Georgina Joyce
Applied Psychologist
Training and Coaching.
Because individuals of groups matter!

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Sean Murphy]

Jason,

The fn vo (control option) left arrow or down arrow takes you to the top or 
bottom of the window or in this example the top/bottom  of the buffer. 

control option command shift left, right, up and down arrows are meant to move 
to the beinging/end etc of lines. They don’t work in Terminal.

Sean 
On 20 Jun 2014, at 9:00 pm, Jason White  wrote:

> Jason White  wrote:
> 
>> And I haven't found any that will take me to the first or last line in the
>> buffer.
> 
> Ctrl-option-fn-left arrow and ctrl-option-fn-right arrow, respectively, move
> to the top/bottom of the text in the terminal, if I'm understanding correctly.
> 
> Ctrl-option-b reads from the start of the shell session, i.e., the scrollback
> buffer, at least in my experiments this evening. If I run, for example, a man
> command, speech usually stops well before it has read the entire output and I
> have to go back to review it.
> 
> The braille display is currently connected to a Linux machine, but I'm going
> to try it with VoiceOver on the laptop this weekend.
> 
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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Jason White  wrote:
 
> And I haven't found any that will take me to the first or last line in the
> buffer.

Ctrl-option-fn-left arrow and ctrl-option-fn-right arrow, respectively, move
to the top/bottom of the text in the terminal, if I'm understanding correctly.

Ctrl-option-b reads from the start of the shell session, i.e., the scrollback
buffer, at least in my experiments this evening. If I run, for example, a man
command, speech usually stops well before it has read the entire output and I
have to go back to review it.

The braille display is currently connected to a Linux machine, but I'm going
to try it with VoiceOver on the laptop this weekend.

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Sean Murphy  wrote:
> Jason,

Hello Sean, thank you for the advice (comments below).
> 
> Commands I use:
> 
> vo up and down arrow to navigate through the history buffer
> vo left and right to move by word
> shift vo left and right is by char of course.
> vo l - read current line.
> 
> There isn’t any commands under voice-over  that I have found which takes you 
> to the beginning or end of the line in the buffer like there is with Speakup 
> or Window screen readers.

And I haven't found any that will take me to the first or last line in the
buffer.

VoiceOver identifies the buffer as "shell text", suggesting that specific
support for the terminal has been implemented.

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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Sean Murphy]

Jason,

Welcome. I use terminal regularly. I do not use a number pad and have a Mac 
book Pro. The Braille support is the same commands as voice-over. You cannot 
separate the braille cursor from the voice-over cursor. Hense, if you issue 
vi-up arrow to move up a line. The same command (function) is what occurs on 
the braille display.

Commands I use:

vo up and down arrow to navigate through the history buffer
vo left and right to move by word
shift vo left and right is by char of course.
vo l - read current line.

There isn’t any commands under voice-over  that I have found which takes you to 
the beginning or end of the line in the buffer like there is with Speakup or 
Window screen readers.

If you want to access via serial, you can use screen /dev/

Again, I find vo doesn’t read at the beginning of the line when using screen 
via a serial port to my cisco routers. I am not sure if this is a setting issue 
or terminal emulation. 

Emacs does work with Vo as well in the terminal.

Sean 
On 20 Jun 2014, at 5:53 pm, Jason White  wrote:

> David Griffith  wrote:
>> I did google it and apparently the embedded numpad has been withdrawn from
>> recent MacBooks but the following may be of interest that I copied from a
>> Apple support page.result.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I may be able to achieve what I need with VoiceOver commands - let's see what
> other Terminal application users think. Of course, if enabling numeric keypad
> keys turns out to be desirable, it appears there is an option for it - thanks
> for the reference.
> 
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Re: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

David Griffith  wrote:
> I did google it and apparently the embedded numpad has been withdrawn from
> recent MacBooks but the following may be of interest that I copied from a
> Apple support page.result.

Thanks.

I may be able to achieve what I need with VoiceOver commands - let's see what
other Terminal application users think. Of course, if enabling numeric keypad
keys turns out to be desirable, it appears there is an option for it - thanks
for the reference.

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RE: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[David Griffith]

I did google it and apparently the embedded numpad has been withdrawn from
recent MacBooks but the following may be of interest that I copied from a
Apple support page.result.

Beginning  of quote .

"Ah, I found a way to solve my problem after some copious googling over the
last few days, and I'm smacking myself in the head over how easy it is. 

In short, there is an preferencepane one can download called
KeyRemap4MacBook, found at :

http://www.pqrs.org/tekezo/macosx/keyremap4macbook/

which, once installed, enables one to remap the fn-key to
fn-key-with-numlock. fn-key-with-numlock enables the "missing" embedded
numeric keypad if one
has a macbook. This isn't the only functionality KeyRemap4MacBook has,
though, but it's what I was most concerned with, personally.

I just used it now and it works perfect. I can still use the regular fn-key
+ f1..f12 as normal while using the embedded keypad. I'm feeling happy about
it all now  Hope others can restore their missing keypads too!"


End of quote 
I guess you have to check it does not interfere with Voiceover keys
combinations though.

David Griffith

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RE: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[David Griffith]

I do not have  a Mac Laptop but I believe there used to be an option to turn
on an embedded numpad  in the laptop keyboard. I can try and look this up on
Google for you  but from memory I think the numpad used to be embedded round
the I key and you used to have to press the function key to access it.

I do not know if this is a feature retained in later Mac Laptops.

David Griffith

-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Jason White
Sent: 20 June 2014 07:12
To: mac-access@mac-access.net
Subject: Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

Dear all,

This is my first post to the list, with a new MacBook in hand and an
unfamiliar operating system to learn. I'm approaching this from a UNIX
background - mostly Linux, but I also had an account on a SUNOS (later
Solaris) machine for a number of years. I'm also familiar with both Android
and IOS, as well as older operating systems such as MS-DOS, and, going back
further, the Apple II, for anyone who remembers DOS 3.3, ProDOS, BEX,
WordTalk, etc.

What are the most effective ways of reviewing and working with the OS X
terminal using VoiceOver, with a braille display and speech? I've searched
the
list archives, where I found a recommendation to turn on the numpad in the
terminal application so as to use the scrollback buffer. However, the
keyboard
on my laptop, as with almost every laptop that I've ever owned, doesn't
include a numeric keypad.

Incidentally, the machine is running OS X 10.9.3.

What's the optimal way to set this up?

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Accessing the OS X terminal with VoiceOver on a laptop

[Jason White]

Dear all,

This is my first post to the list, with a new MacBook in hand and an
unfamiliar operating system to learn. I'm approaching this from a UNIX
background - mostly Linux, but I also had an account on a SUNOS (later
Solaris) machine for a number of years. I'm also familiar with both Android
and IOS, as well as older operating systems such as MS-DOS, and, going back
further, the Apple II, for anyone who remembers DOS 3.3, ProDOS, BEX,
WordTalk, etc.

What are the most effective ways of reviewing and working with the OS X
terminal using VoiceOver, with a braille display and speech? I've searched the
list archives, where I found a recommendation to turn on the numpad in the
terminal application so as to use the scrollback buffer. However, the keyboard
on my laptop, as with almost every laptop that I've ever owned, doesn't
include a numeric keypad.

Incidentally, the machine is running OS X 10.9.3.

What's the optimal way to set this up?

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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