Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Travis Siegel]

I don't know about the eu, but in the US, if you purchased applecare,  
you got a 3-year warrantee with the product, instead of the default 1  
year you get just by buying the thing.

Was it different in the EU?

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Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Geoff Waaler]

Hi Nic and others,

We agree that pricing is a function of many factors -- the most tangible of 
which you mentioned are sales taxes (AKA vat in Europe), and the existence 
of competition.


Conceding your point that Apple failed to comply with EU consumer protection 
law does not alter my original argument that the mandated change will impact 
Apple's price to service the affected products.  They may choose to absorb 
those costs internally by lowering employee pay scales, reducing dividend 
payments, etc, but the more likely outcome is that they will conclude that 
its costlier delivering products in EU member nations and price their 
products accordingly.  Then most consumers will blame Apple rather than the 
EU!!


Best regards.
Geoff


- Original Message - 
From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld



Hi Jeff,

Actually, what truly impacts the pricing of any product here are the tax 
rates, and at least last time I studied this, consumers and producers 
bargaining. They're usually price ratios which are determined by these two 
factors, while competition brings a tendency towards an equilibrium level. 
When taxes are levied, business are unable to immediately raise prices to 
forward the cost onto the consumer any more than before the tax was 
brought into action. It's a consumer/demand supply relationship. Of 
course, anyone can figure that out, since it's just common sense. It gets 
a bit more complicated, but I don't want to rant on here, since my primary 
knowledge is now in business ethics thanks to a friend.


What Europeans know is that Apple violated the European consumer laws, 
which is the important factor. The price really is not, as long as Apple 
is in accordance with the laws set forth. In this case, they were not. 
From what I understand, U.S. consumer law provides one year of limited 
warranty, at least from what I can gather from the information off of 
Apple. Europeans generally also know that there's a rather big price 
difference in products from the U.S. as opposed to buying a similar 
product in Europe, at least in some cases. That's not only because of the 
25%VAT implied in some countries, but it's definitely what plays the 
biggest part and what most consumers are going to know.


Regards,
Nicolai
On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:57 PM, Geoff Waaler  wrote:

Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year 
warranty." Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without 
even a modicum of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible 
that the vary people who applaud this sort of thing whine about the 
disparity in prices for identical products in their countries.  Of course 
since the US President has been intentionally trashing this nations 
currency for over three years, y'all may have a more favorable exchange 
rate, but the reality is that all costs have a direct affect on a 
company's profit margin which must be offset by increasing revenue.  The 
only method at a company's disposal to augment revenue is to price their 
goods and services accordingly.


To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing 
to watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil 
energy producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an 
evil corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. 
Ironically, those vary people complain when their electric bills 
skyrocket and they can't afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food 
(which generally requires transportation).


To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect 
of raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they 
simply collect them from their customers.


Best regards.
Geoff

- Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 


To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld



Hi,

Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got 
one year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't 
any better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a 
lot of countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to 
electronic equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and 
so-forth regardless of the warranty provided by the manufacturer. And 
obviously, Apple misleads customers by suggesting that we pay for 
AppleCare for the second and third year when the two-year law i

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Timothy J. Meloy]

Know this is a new topic, but how do you start playing a DVD? I am trying to 
watch a movie and am stuck in the menu. All VO says imageand I can't interact 
with it. Any help is appreciated. 
TJ

On Apr 11, 2012, at 6:54 PM, Bryan Jones  wrote:

> Feel better? Now can we get back to Apple discussions?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:55 PM, John Panarese wrote:
> 
>>  Yes, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.  I forget the left tends 
>> to get jumpy when you start to talk about real economy issues.
>> 
>> Take Care
>> John Panarese
>> jpanar...@mac-access.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
>> 
>>> Excuse me, could we stick to apple discussions and maybe save the tired 
>>> right-wing rhetoric for the John Birch Society forum?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 3:21 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  Agreed.  And what is more scary is how many people who have no idea how 
>>>> an economy actually runs and think that every company supplying some sort 
>>>> of goods are "cheating" the consumers in some way shape or form.  Many of 
>>>> them, however, also want to be paid the maximum for their own work, not 
>>>> considering who pays their salaries and how.  
>>>> 
>>>> Take Care
>>>> John Panarese
>>>> jpanar...@mac-access.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Geoff Waaler wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year 
>>>>> warranty." Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without 
>>>>> even a modicum of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible 
>>>>> that the vary people who applaud this sort of thing whine about the 
>>>>> disparity in prices for identical products in their countries.  Of course 
>>>>> since the US President has been intentionally trashing this nations 
>>>>> currency for over three years, y'all may have a more favorable exchange 
>>>>> rate, but the reality is that all costs have a direct affect on a 
>>>>> company's profit margin which must be offset by increasing revenue.  The 
>>>>> only method at a company's disposal to augment revenue is to price their 
>>>>> goods and services accordingly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
>>>>> believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing 
>>>>> to watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil 
>>>>> energy producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an 
>>>>> evil corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. 
>>>>> Ironically, those vary people complain when their electric bills 
>>>>> skyrocket and they can't afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food 
>>>>> (which generally requires transportation).
>>>>> 
>>>>> To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
>>>>> affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
>>>>> them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect 
>>>>> of raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they 
>>>>> simply collect them from their customers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
>>>>> 
>>>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got 
>>>>>> one year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't 
>>>>>> any better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a 
>>>>>> lot of countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to 
>>>>>> electronic equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and 
>>>>>>

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[John Panarese]

I was going to ask you the same question, actually, as your response was 
not exactly called for.

  To get back on subject, I apologize for highjacking Geoff's original 
post.  He was on topic.  So, it's my fault for diverting it with my 
editorializing.  I ran a business for several years and have family and friends 
who still do so in varying capacities, so this topic is a "hot one" for me 
personally.  However, as I said, I am sorry for derailing the initial point.

Take Care
John Panarese
jpanar...@mac-access.net



On Apr 11, 2012, at 6:54 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Feel better? Now can we get back to Apple discussions?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:55 PM, John Panarese wrote:
> 
>>  Yes, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.  I forget the left tends 
>> to get jumpy when you start to talk about real economy issues.
>> 
>> Take Care
>> John Panarese
>> jpanar...@mac-access.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
>> 
>>> Excuse me, could we stick to apple discussions and maybe save the tired 
>>> right-wing rhetoric for the John Birch Society forum?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 3:21 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  Agreed.  And what is more scary is how many people who have no idea how 
>>>> an economy actually runs and think that every company supplying some sort 
>>>> of goods are "cheating" the consumers in some way shape or form.  Many of 
>>>> them, however, also want to be paid the maximum for their own work, not 
>>>> considering who pays their salaries and how.  
>>>> 
>>>> Take Care
>>>> John Panarese
>>>> jpanar...@mac-access.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Geoff Waaler wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year 
>>>>> warranty." Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without 
>>>>> even a modicum of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible 
>>>>> that the vary people who applaud this sort of thing whine about the 
>>>>> disparity in prices for identical products in their countries.  Of course 
>>>>> since the US President has been intentionally trashing this nations 
>>>>> currency for over three years, y'all may have a more favorable exchange 
>>>>> rate, but the reality is that all costs have a direct affect on a 
>>>>> company's profit margin which must be offset by increasing revenue.  The 
>>>>> only method at a company's disposal to augment revenue is to price their 
>>>>> goods and services accordingly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
>>>>> believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing 
>>>>> to watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil 
>>>>> energy producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an 
>>>>> evil corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. 
>>>>> Ironically, those vary people complain when their electric bills 
>>>>> skyrocket and they can't afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food 
>>>>> (which generally requires transportation).
>>>>> 
>>>>> To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
>>>>> affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
>>>>> them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect 
>>>>> of raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they 
>>>>> simply collect them from their customers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
>>>>> 
>>>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got 
>>>>>> one year of warranty if you incl

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Bryan Jones]

Feel better? Now can we get back to Apple discussions?

Thanks

On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:55 PM, John Panarese wrote:

>   Yes, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.  I forget the left tends 
> to get jumpy when you start to talk about real economy issues.
> 
> Take Care
> John Panarese
> jpanar...@mac-access.net
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:
> 
>> Excuse me, could we stick to apple discussions and maybe save the tired 
>> right-wing rhetoric for the John Birch Society forum?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 3:21 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>> 
>>>   Agreed.  And what is more scary is how many people who have no idea how 
>>> an economy actually runs and think that every company supplying some sort 
>>> of goods are "cheating" the consumers in some way shape or form.  Many of 
>>> them, however, also want to be paid the maximum for their own work, not 
>>> considering who pays their salaries and how.  
>>> 
>>> Take Care
>>> John Panarese
>>> jpanar...@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Geoff Waaler wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year 
>>>> warranty." Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without 
>>>> even a modicum of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible that 
>>>> the vary people who applaud this sort of thing whine about the disparity 
>>>> in prices for identical products in their countries.  Of course since the 
>>>> US President has been intentionally trashing this nations currency for 
>>>> over three years, y'all may have a more favorable exchange rate, but the 
>>>> reality is that all costs have a direct affect on a company's profit 
>>>> margin which must be offset by increasing revenue.  The only method at a 
>>>> company's disposal to augment revenue is to price their goods and services 
>>>> accordingly.
>>>> 
>>>> To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
>>>> believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing to 
>>>> watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil energy 
>>>> producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an evil 
>>>> corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. 
>>>> Ironically, those vary people complain when their electric bills skyrocket 
>>>> and they can't afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food (which 
>>>> generally requires transportation).
>>>> 
>>>> To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
>>>> affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
>>>> them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect 
>>>> of raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they 
>>>> simply collect them from their customers.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards.
>>>> Geoff
>>>> 
>>>> - Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
>>>> 
>>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got 
>>>>> one year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't 
>>>>> any better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a 
>>>>> lot of countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to 
>>>>> electronic equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and 
>>>>> so-forth regardless of the warranty provided by the manufacturer. And 
>>>>> obviously, Apple misleads customers by suggesting that we pay for 
>>>>> AppleCare for the second and third year when the two-year law in Europe 
>>>>> didn't cover it at the time, which actually should have been the case as 
>>>>> the article says.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, Apple deserves taking the heat for this one, though I'm kind of 
>>>>> surprised their lawyers haven't acted on this to p

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[John Panarese]

   Yes, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.  I forget the left tends 
to get jumpy when you start to talk about real economy issues.

Take Care
John Panarese
jpanar...@mac-access.net



On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Bryan Jones wrote:

> Excuse me, could we stick to apple discussions and maybe save the tired 
> right-wing rhetoric for the John Birch Society forum?
> 
> Thanks
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 11, 2012, at 3:21 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>>Agreed.  And what is more scary is how many people who have no idea how 
>> an economy actually runs and think that every company supplying some sort of 
>> goods are "cheating" the consumers in some way shape or form.  Many of them, 
>> however, also want to be paid the maximum for their own work, not 
>> considering who pays their salaries and how.  
>> 
>> Take Care
>> John Panarese
>> jpanar...@mac-access.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Geoff Waaler wrote:
>> 
>>> Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year warranty." 
>>> Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without even a 
>>> modicum of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible that the 
>>> vary people who applaud this sort of thing whine about the disparity in 
>>> prices for identical products in their countries.  Of course since the US 
>>> President has been intentionally trashing this nations currency for over 
>>> three years, y'all may have a more favorable exchange rate, but the reality 
>>> is that all costs have a direct affect on a company's profit margin which 
>>> must be offset by increasing revenue.  The only method at a company's 
>>> disposal to augment revenue is to price their goods and services 
>>> accordingly.
>>> 
>>> To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
>>> believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing to 
>>> watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil energy 
>>> producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an evil 
>>> corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. 
>>> Ironically, those vary people complain when their electric bills skyrocket 
>>> and they can't afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food (which 
>>> generally requires transportation).
>>> 
>>> To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
>>> affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
>>> them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect of 
>>> raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they 
>>> simply collect them from their customers.
>>> 
>>> Best regards.
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
>>> 
>>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
>>> Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got one 
>>>> year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't any 
>>>> better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a lot of 
>>>> countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to electronic 
>>>> equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and so-forth regardless 
>>>> of the warranty provided by the manufacturer. And obviously, Apple 
>>>> misleads customers by suggesting that we pay for AppleCare for the second 
>>>> and third year when the two-year law in Europe didn't cover it at the 
>>>> time, which actually should have been the case as the article says.
>>>> 
>>>> So, Apple deserves taking the heat for this one, though I'm kind of 
>>>> surprised their lawyers haven't acted on this to prevent the misleading 
>>>> claims. Since I'm into law, at least as a hobby, I've been rather upset 
>>>> when I've shown up with damaged equipment to find I wasn't covered, but my 
>>>> insurance company was perfectly able to replace the item if it was damaged 
>>>> beyond repair, at least if you include the coverage when signing 
>>>> insurance. Of course, I haven't had damaged items, but I lik

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Bryan Jones]

Excuse me, could we stick to apple discussions and maybe save the tired 
right-wing rhetoric for the John Birch Society forum?

Thanks
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 11, 2012, at 3:21 PM, John Panarese  wrote:

> Agreed.  And what is more scary is how many people who have no idea how 
> an economy actually runs and think that every company supplying some sort of 
> goods are "cheating" the consumers in some way shape or form.  Many of them, 
> however, also want to be paid the maximum for their own work, not considering 
> who pays their salaries and how.  
> 
> Take Care
> John Panarese
> jpanar...@mac-access.net
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Geoff Waaler wrote:
> 
>> Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year warranty." 
>> Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without even a modicum 
>> of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible that the vary people 
>> who applaud this sort of thing whine about the disparity in prices for 
>> identical products in their countries.  Of course since the US President has 
>> been intentionally trashing this nations currency for over three years, 
>> y'all may have a more favorable exchange rate, but the reality is that all 
>> costs have a direct affect on a company's profit margin which must be offset 
>> by increasing revenue.  The only method at a company's disposal to augment 
>> revenue is to price their goods and services accordingly.
>> 
>> To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
>> believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing to 
>> watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil energy 
>> producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an evil 
>> corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. 
>> Ironically, those vary people complain when their electric bills skyrocket 
>> and they can't afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food (which 
>> generally requires transportation).
>> 
>> To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
>> affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
>> them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect of 
>> raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they 
>> simply collect them from their customers.
>> 
>> Best regards.
>> Geoff
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
>> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got one 
>>> year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't any 
>>> better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a lot of 
>>> countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to electronic 
>>> equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and so-forth regardless 
>>> of the warranty provided by the manufacturer. And obviously, Apple misleads 
>>> customers by suggesting that we pay for AppleCare for the second and third 
>>> year when the two-year law in Europe didn't cover it at the time, which 
>>> actually should have been the case as the article says.
>>> 
>>> So, Apple deserves taking the heat for this one, though I'm kind of 
>>> surprised their lawyers haven't acted on this to prevent the misleading 
>>> claims. Since I'm into law, at least as a hobby, I've been rather upset 
>>> when I've shown up with damaged equipment to find I wasn't covered, but my 
>>> insurance company was perfectly able to replace the item if it was damaged 
>>> beyond repair, at least if you include the coverage when signing insurance. 
>>> Of course, I haven't had damaged items, but I like to test Apple since 
>>> they've been rather troublesome, not just in this area but also when it 
>>> comes to advertising.
>>> 
>>> At any rate, I'm pretty happy to see Apple refining AppleCare and warranty 
>>> now.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Nicolai
>>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Sarah Alawami  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm not  so sure what to think of this. but here's the article. the reader 
>>>> is available in this one.
>>>> 
>>>

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi Jeff,

Actually, what truly impacts the pricing of any product here are the tax rates, 
and at least last time I studied this, consumers and producers bargaining. 
They're usually price ratios which are determined by these two factors, while 
competition brings a tendency towards an equilibrium level. When taxes are 
levied, business are unable to immediately raise prices to forward the cost 
onto the consumer any more than before the tax was brought into action. It's a 
consumer/demand supply relationship. Of course, anyone can figure that out, 
since it's just common sense. It gets a bit more complicated, but I don't want 
to rant on here, since my primary knowledge is now in business ethics thanks to 
a friend.

What Europeans know is that Apple violated the European consumer laws, which is 
the important factor. The price really is not, as long as Apple is in 
accordance with the laws set forth. In this case, they were not. From what I 
understand, U.S. consumer law provides one year of limited warranty, at least 
from what I can gather from the information off of Apple. Europeans generally 
also know that there's a rather big price difference in products from the U.S. 
as opposed to buying a similar product in Europe, at least in some cases. 
That's not only because of the 25%VAT implied in some countries, but it's 
definitely what plays the biggest part and what most consumers are going to 
know.

Regards,
Nicolai
On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:57 PM, Geoff Waaler  wrote:

> Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year warranty." 
> Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without even a modicum 
> of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible that the vary people 
> who applaud this sort of thing whine about the disparity in prices for 
> identical products in their countries.  Of course since the US President has 
> been intentionally trashing this nations currency for over three years, y'all 
> may have a more favorable exchange rate, but the reality is that all costs 
> have a direct affect on a company's profit margin which must be offset by 
> increasing revenue.  The only method at a company's disposal to augment 
> revenue is to price their goods and services accordingly.
> 
> To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
> believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing to 
> watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil energy 
> producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an evil 
> corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. Ironically, 
> those vary people complain when their electric bills skyrocket and they can't 
> afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food (which generally requires 
> transportation).
> 
> To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
> affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
> them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect of 
> raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they simply 
> collect them from their customers.
> 
> Best regards.
> Geoff
> 
> ----- Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
> Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got one 
>> year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't any 
>> better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a lot of 
>> countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to electronic 
>> equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and so-forth regardless 
>> of the warranty provided by the manufacturer. And obviously, Apple misleads 
>> customers by suggesting that we pay for AppleCare for the second and third 
>> year when the two-year law in Europe didn't cover it at the time, which 
>> actually should have been the case as the article says.
>> 
>> So, Apple deserves taking the heat for this one, though I'm kind of 
>> surprised their lawyers haven't acted on this to prevent the misleading 
>> claims. Since I'm into law, at least as a hobby, I've been rather upset when 
>> I've shown up with damaged equipment to find I wasn't covered, but my 
>> insurance company was perfectly able to replace the item if it was damaged 
>> beyond repair, at least if you include the coverage when signing insurance. 
>> Of course, I haven't had damaged items, but I like t

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[John Panarese]

 Agreed.  And what is more scary is how many people who have no idea how an 
economy actually runs and think that every company supplying some sort of goods 
are "cheating" the consumers in some way shape or form.  Many of them, however, 
also want to be paid the maximum for their own work, not considering who pays 
their salaries and how.  

Take Care
John Panarese
jpanar...@mac-access.net



On Apr 11, 2012, at 2:57 PM, Geoff Waaler wrote:

> Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year warranty." 
> Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without even a modicum 
> of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible that the vary people 
> who applaud this sort of thing whine about the disparity in prices for 
> identical products in their countries.  Of course since the US President has 
> been intentionally trashing this nations currency for over three years, y'all 
> may have a more favorable exchange rate, but the reality is that all costs 
> have a direct affect on a company's profit margin which must be offset by 
> increasing revenue.  The only method at a company's disposal to augment 
> revenue is to price their goods and services accordingly.
> 
> To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
> believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing to 
> watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil energy 
> producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an evil 
> corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. Ironically, 
> those vary people complain when their electric bills skyrocket and they can't 
> afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food (which generally requires 
> transportation).
> 
> To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
> affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
> them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect of 
> raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they simply 
> collect them from their customers.
> 
> Best regards.
> Geoff
> 
> - Original Message ----- From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
> To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
> Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld
> 
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got one 
>> year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't any 
>> better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a lot of 
>> countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to electronic 
>> equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and so-forth regardless 
>> of the warranty provided by the manufacturer. And obviously, Apple misleads 
>> customers by suggesting that we pay for AppleCare for the second and third 
>> year when the two-year law in Europe didn't cover it at the time, which 
>> actually should have been the case as the article says.
>> 
>> So, Apple deserves taking the heat for this one, though I'm kind of 
>> surprised their lawyers haven't acted on this to prevent the misleading 
>> claims. Since I'm into law, at least as a hobby, I've been rather upset when 
>> I've shown up with damaged equipment to find I wasn't covered, but my 
>> insurance company was perfectly able to replace the item if it was damaged 
>> beyond repair, at least if you include the coverage when signing insurance. 
>> Of course, I haven't had damaged items, but I like to test Apple since 
>> they've been rather troublesome, not just in this area but also when it 
>> comes to advertising.
>> 
>> At any rate, I'm pretty happy to see Apple refining AppleCare and warranty 
>> now.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Nicolai
>> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Sarah Alawami  wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm not  so sure what to think of this. but here's the article. the reader 
>>> is available in this one.
>>> 
>>> 
> http://www.macworld.com/article/1166194/eu_law_forces_apple_twoyear_warranty.html#lsrc.rss_products_ipod
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum 
>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-a

Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Geoff Waaler]

Amusing that they state: "companies should offer a free two-year warranty." 
Do most Europeans actually believe its free of charge without even a modicum 
of impact on the pricing of a product?  Its incredible that the vary people 
who applaud this sort of thing whine about the disparity in prices for 
identical products in their countries.  Of course since the US President has 
been intentionally trashing this nations currency for over three years, 
y'all may have a more favorable exchange rate, but the reality is that all 
costs have a direct affect on a company's profit margin which must be offset 
by increasing revenue.  The only method at a company's disposal to augment 
revenue is to price their goods and services accordingly.


To be fair, the pro-EU faction of Europeans don't have a monopoly on 
believing politician's fairy tales of a free lunch.  Its always amusing to 
watch supporters of our current President demand that these evil energy 
producers be taxed for various offenses having to do with being an evil 
corporation in general and the global warming hoax in particular. 
Ironically, those vary people complain when their electric bills skyrocket 
and they can't afford to fill their gas tanks, or purchase food (which 
generally requires transportation).


To keep this topical, its probably fair to conclude that citizens of the 
affected EU nations shouldn't be surprised to discover that this will hit 
them directly in the pocket book, which would be identical to the affect of 
raising taxes on Apple.  Corporations do not pay taxes you see -- they 
simply collect them from their customers.


Best regards.
Geoff

- Original Message - 
From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 

To: "Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld



Hi,

Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got one 
year of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't any 
better than what the insurance any other company can provide. In a lot of 
countries, you have an insurance which covers all damages to electronic 
equipment, like computers, televisions, microwaves and so-forth regardless 
of the warranty provided by the manufacturer. And obviously, Apple 
misleads customers by suggesting that we pay for AppleCare for the second 
and third year when the two-year law in Europe didn't cover it at the 
time, which actually should have been the case as the article says.


So, Apple deserves taking the heat for this one, though I'm kind of 
surprised their lawyers haven't acted on this to prevent the misleading 
claims. Since I'm into law, at least as a hobby, I've been rather upset 
when I've shown up with damaged equipment to find I wasn't covered, but my 
insurance company was perfectly able to replace the item if it was damaged 
beyond repair, at least if you include the coverage when signing 
insurance. Of course, I haven't had damaged items, but I like to test 
Apple since they've been rather troublesome, not just in this area but 
also when it comes to advertising.


At any rate, I'm pretty happy to see Apple refining AppleCare and warranty 
now.


Regards,
Nicolai
On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Sarah Alawami  wrote:

I'm not  so sure what to think of this. but here's the article. the 
reader is available in this one.




http://www.macworld.com/article/1166194/eu_law_forces_apple_twoyear_warranty.html#lsrc.rss_products_ipod


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To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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Re: EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi,

Actually, this is perfectly justifiable. Before just now, you only got one year 
of warranty if you included AppleCare, which truthfully isn't any better than 
what the insurance any other company can provide. In a lot of countries, you 
have an insurance which covers all damages to electronic equipment, like 
computers, televisions, microwaves and so-forth regardless of the warranty 
provided by the manufacturer. And obviously, Apple misleads customers by 
suggesting that we pay for AppleCare for the second and third year when the 
two-year law in Europe didn't cover it at the time, which actually should have 
been the case as the article says.

So, Apple deserves taking the heat for this one, though I'm kind of surprised 
their lawyers haven't acted on this to prevent the misleading claims. Since I'm 
into law, at least as a hobby, I've been rather upset when I've shown up with 
damaged equipment to find I wasn't covered, but my insurance company was 
perfectly able to replace the item if it was damaged beyond repair, at least if 
you include the coverage when signing insurance. Of course, I haven't had 
damaged items, but I like to test Apple since they've been rather troublesome, 
not just in this area but also when it comes to advertising.

At any rate, I'm pretty happy to see Apple refining AppleCare and warranty now.

Regards,
Nicolai
On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Sarah Alawami  wrote:

> I'm not  so sure what to think of this. but here's the article. the reader is 
> available in this one.
> 
> http://www.macworld.com/article/1166194/eu_law_forces_apple_twoyear_warranty.html#lsrc.rss_products_ipod
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> 
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> .
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> 
> 
> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free!
> 
> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
> the list website at:
> 

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EU law forces Apple two-year warranty | Macworld

[Sarah Alawami]

I'm not  so sure what to think of this. but here's the article. the reader is 
available in this one.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1166194/eu_law_forces_apple_twoyear_warranty.html#lsrc.rss_products_ipod

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:

or at the public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free!

Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the 
list website at: