Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
On Aug 29, 2011, at 5:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi Gordon, This is something that the Infovox voices do, not Apple's. In fact, if you switch to a voice by Apple, Alex or others do not interpret this wrongly. I'm guessing in some places this is another way to format the dates, and VoiceOver does not always govern how information is interpreted I beg to differ. Apple's nasty habbit of saying what it thinks you want to hear instead of what's actually written on the screen has cost me many hours of work over the years. There's no reason for voices to say Sunday just because someone is talking about the sun, and the word just happens to be at the end of the sentence. Check out your particular voice says the following, (different voices and different os versions will pronounce these differently) Sat, sun, VOL, -, :), ;), STEGOSAURUS, ST, AVE, RD, DR, PL, Wed, Tue, Pt, TWENTY-SIX, TWENTY-FIVE (You get the idea (and how about roman numerals, I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, IX, X, XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV, XVI, XVII, XVIII, XIX, XX, XXI, XXII, XXIII, XXIV, XXV, XXVI, XXVII, XXVIII, XXIX, (you get the idea) It's nice that roman numerals are pronounced as numbers, but sometimes, they're not supposed to be. I can't tell you how many times Apple has told me something was on the screen that wasn't, that wasted either debugging time, or confusion over sorting order, filenames, and other various issues that crop up as a result of having things spoken that weren't there. Of course, this isn't new, the apple II used to do this too. The Echo synth used to say tangent when it ran across the letters T A N. I can't tell you how many of my summer computer camp students were confused because of the apple claiming there was a tangent rat in their game. I for one don't mind figuring out what is intended myself, instead of having the synthesizer speak something that may or may not be what's intended. I'm very very strongly of the opinion that a screen reader should read what's on the screen, and leave the interpreting of that info up to the user. Apple's method of trying to do this for you is irritating, and at times downright wrong, costing time and effort to try to figure out what's really meant. I've asked for a toggle to have this behavior turned off/on at need, (I'd leave it off all the time) but apple has seen fit to ignore such requests. I much prefer to hear what's there, not what someone thinks is there. I've had to work with my 6-year old daughter, and 9-year old son to get them to do the same, read what's on the page, not what you think is there. Yeah, perhaps it's a bit more effort for the reader, and maybe it's (slightly) confusing, but I'd much rather know what's actually there, not someone's interpretation of what it is. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Hi Travis I totally and completely agree with you here. The screen-reader's job is to read the contents of the screen, not to interpret it into something entirely different. let's see, what does your synthesiser make of the letters IE? Yes, I typed the letter I then the letter E. If you get what I get, the two above letters are change to That is. I didn't type That is, did i? No, I typed IE which as we all know has more than one meaning. So why is it being changed from I E to That is? It' being changed because some smart Alek decided that it should be changed. I disagree totally and very strongly with that assertion. As Travis quite rightly says, when you're programming or proof-reading and you come across these abbreviations which are interpreted into something totally different from what the author intended, and it changes the context totally. Yes, possibly in the specific context I originally raised this topic it might have been a correct interpretation. And yes, it is true that iVox does some of this stuff as well. But I really really hope that Apple will consider giving us the option some time of turning these things off. Possibly you can edit some of them out by means of the pronunciation section in VoiceOver Utility. I must check that. But some of them would appear to be hard wired. Gordon On 30 Aug 2011, at 15:42, Travis Siegel wrote: I beg to differ. Apple's nasty habbit of saying what it thinks you want to hear instead of what's actually written on the screen has cost me many hours of work over the years. There's no reason for voices to say Sunday just because someone is talking about the sun, and the word just happens to be at the end of the sentence. Check out your particular voice says the following, (different voices and different os versions will pronounce these differently) Sat, sun, VOL, -, :), ;), STEGOSAURUS, ST, AVE, RD, DR, PL, Wed, Tue, Pt, TWENTY-SIX, TWENTY-FIVE (You get the idea (and how about roman numerals, I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, IX, X, XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV, XVI, XVII, XVIII, XIX, XX, XXI, XXII, XXIII, XXIV, XXV, XXVI, XXVII, XXVIII, XXIX, (you get the idea) It's nice that roman numerals are pronounced as numbers, but sometimes, they're not supposed to be. I can't tell you how many times Apple has told me something was on the screen that wasn't, that wasted either debugging time, or confusion over sorting order, filenames, and other various issues that crop up as a result of having things spoken that weren't there. Of course, this isn't new, the apple II used to do this too. The Echo synth used to say tangent when it ran across the letters T A N. I can't tell you how many of my summer computer camp students were confused because of the apple claiming there was a tangent rat in their game. I for one don't mind figuring out what is intended myself, instead of having the synthesizer speak something that may or may not be what's intended. I'm very very strongly of the opinion that a screen reader should read what's on the screen, and leave the interpreting of that info up to the user. Apple's method of trying to do this for you is irritating, and at times downright wrong, costing time and effort to try to figure out what's really meant. I've asked for a toggle to have this behavior turned off/on at need, (I'd leave it off all the time) but apple has seen fit to ignore such requests. I much prefer to hear what's there, not what someone thinks is there. I've had to work with my 6-year old daughter, and 9-year old son to get them to do the same, read what's on the page, not what you think is there. Yeah, perhaps it's a bit more effort for the reader, and maybe it's (slightly) confusing, but I'd much rather know what's actually there, not someone's interpretation of what it is. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. On Aug 30, 2011, at 7:42 AM, Travis Siegel wrote: On Aug 29, 2011, at 5:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi Gordon, This is something that the Infovox voices do, not Apple's. In fact, if you switch to a voice by Apple, Alex or others do not interpret this wrongly. I'm guessing in some places this is another way to format the dates, and VoiceOver does not always govern how information is interpreted I beg to differ. Apple's nasty habbit of saying what it thinks you want to hear instead of what's actually written on the screen has cost me many hours of work over the years. There's no reason for voices to say Sunday just because someone is talking about the sun, and the word just happens to be at the end of the sentence. Check out your particular voice says the following, (different voices and different os versions will pronounce these differently) Sat, sun, VOL, -, :), ;), STEGOSAURUS, ST, AVE, RD, DR, PL, Wed, Tue, Pt, TWENTY-SIX, TWENTY-FIVE (You get the idea (and how about roman numerals, I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, IX, X, XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV, XVI, XVII, XVIII, XIX, XX, XXI, XXII, XXIII, XXIV, XXV, XXVI, XXVII, XXVIII, XXIX, (you get the idea) It's nice that roman numerals are pronounced as numbers, but sometimes, they're not supposed to be. I can't tell you how many times Apple has told me something was on the screen that wasn't, that wasted either debugging time, or confusion over sorting order, filenames, and other various issues that crop up as a result of having things spoken that weren't there. Of course, this isn't new, the apple II used to do this too. The Echo synth used to say tangent when it ran across the letters T A N. I can't tell you how many of my summer computer camp students were confused because of the apple claiming there was a tangent rat in their game. I for one don't mind figuring out what is intended myself, instead of having the synthesizer speak something that may or may not be what's intended. I'm very very strongly of the opinion that a screen reader should read what's on the screen, and leave the interpreting of that info up to the user. Apple's method of trying to do this for you is irritating, and at times downright wrong, costing time and effort to try to figure out what's really meant. I've asked for a toggle to have this behavior turned off/on at need, (I'd leave it off all the time) but apple has seen fit to ignore such requests. I much prefer to hear what's there, not what someone thinks is there. I've had to work with my 6-year old daughter, and 9-year old son to get them to do the same, read what's on the page, not what you think is there. Yeah, perhaps it's a bit more effort for the reader, and maybe it's (slightly) confusing, but I'd much rather know what's actually there, not someone's interpretation of what it is. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Maybe we should go after the true problem, and that is the text to speech writers. It isn't just apple and apple voices. My windows voices from ivona and the Kate and Paul voices that come with Kurzweil 1000 do this too. If there is a generic string that the screen reader can send to the synthesizer to turn that functionality off, that is what is really needed. I remember Vocal-eyes for dos had a command where you could send escape sequences to the synthesizer if you knew them modifying this behavior. vo could have a check box expand abbreviations then send the sequence to the synthesizer turning them on or off. On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:20:27 +0100 Gordon Smith gor...@mac-access.net wrote: Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ - The home of the Mystic Place blog and podcast. http://www.mysticplace.info --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Collin, you said that your vo said sun for my sun that was in the list. Mine says sunday. This is what I meant when I said different voices, and different osx versions will treat the same text differently. This more than anything is why I want an option to turn this interpreting stuff off. If I'm using tiger, and it says sunday, and then I've gotten used to this, switch to a snowleopard or lion machine, and suddenly it's back to saying sun, this reakes havoc with proofreading, not to mention (as I've said before) programming. When I code, I don't need vo to tell me that I wrote smiley when I really wrote a dash followed by a greater than symbol. Moreover, when I'm sorting file names, I would expect v o l and v o l u m e to be sorted differently, and they are, but since vo treats them both as the same thing, it's impossible to see if things are setup properly if you didn't know that. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Hello Chris Alex, Fred, Albert etc., are Apple voices. Thus you approach Apple. Would you not agree? Gordon On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:32, Chris G wrote: Maybe we should go after the true problem, and that is the text to speech writers. It isn't just apple and apple voices. My windows voices from ivona and the Kate and Paul voices that come with Kurzweil 1000 do this too. If there is a generic string that the screen reader can send to the synthesizer to turn that functionality off, that is what is really needed. I remember Vocal-eyes for dos had a command where you could send escape sequences to the synthesizer if you knew them modifying this behavior. vo could have a check box expand abbreviations then send the sequence to the synthesizer turning them on or off. On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:20:27 +0100 Gordon Smith gor...@mac-access.net wrote: Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ - The home of the Mystic Place blog and podcast. http://www.mysticplace.info --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Colin With all due respect, that isn't entirely true. There are some things which are hard wired into the voice application and you can't change them. Gordon On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:33, Red.Falcon wrote: Hi there! As I said to Travis [off list] the facility is there for people to add there own things like : ] together they can set it to say smile if thats what they want! And any other thing they like! So it would not hurt Apple to get rid of all the built in ones or as travis suggested a toggle on or off choice! Colin P.S. on my message from you Gordon mine said i e not that is! :] On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:20, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Sarah That's precisely why interpretation should not happen. The screen-reader should read what's on screen and not what it thinks is meant by something. Sure, give the user the option to change it if they prefer. But don't force these abbreviations on us. Gordon On 30 Aug 2011, at 17:37, Sarah Alawami wrote: but that's the thing. what might be writ to one person might not be write to another. I read and write things that are right to me and are supposed to be pronounced x or y way, how ever the screen reader vender should not decide for us what is correct and what is not. Take care all. On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Acapela and Nuance are not apple voices. On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:50:15 +0100 Gordon Smith gor...@mac-access.net wrote: Hello Chris Alex, Fred, Albert etc., are Apple voices. Thus you approach Apple. Would you not agree? Gordon On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:32, Chris G wrote: Maybe we should go after the true problem, and that is the text to speech writers. It isn't just apple and apple voices. My windows voices from ivona and the Kate and Paul voices that come with Kurzweil 1000 do this too. If there is a generic string that the screen reader can send to the synthesizer to turn that functionality off, that is what is really needed. I remember Vocal-eyes for dos had a command where you could send escape sequences to the synthesizer if you knew them modifying this behavior. vo could have a check box expand abbreviations then send the sequence to the synthesizer turning them on or off. On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:20:27 +0100 Gordon Smith gor...@mac-access.net wrote: Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ - The home of the Mystic Place blog and podcast. http://www.mysticplace.info --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ - The home of the Mystic Place blog and podcast. http://www.mysticplace.info --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Exactly. I think we should all just interpret how we read thing.s after all is that not what the sighted person does? and besides, we can get rid of the things in the dictionary and start afresh. We can bug apple about it but I really don't thnk ti will work this time around. Take care all. On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:50 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Chris Alex, Fred, Albert etc., are Apple voices. Thus you approach Apple. Would you not agree? Gordon On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:32, Chris G wrote: Maybe we should go after the true problem, and that is the text to speech writers. It isn't just apple and apple voices. My windows voices from ivona and the Kate and Paul voices that come with Kurzweil 1000 do this too. If there is a generic string that the screen reader can send to the synthesizer to turn that functionality off, that is what is really needed. I remember Vocal-eyes for dos had a command where you could send escape sequences to the synthesizer if you knew them modifying this behavior. vo could have a check box expand abbreviations then send the sequence to the synthesizer turning them on or off. On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:20:27 +0100 Gordon Smith gor...@mac-access.net wrote: Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ - The home of the Mystic Place blog and podcast. http://www.mysticplace.info --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Why, when they are commnen anyways. Ok have vo read the abreaction but don't have it expand. I could have sworn there was a setting for it not to do that some ware? Iknot thinking and I've used so many operating systems over the past 20 years that I can't remember. Take care all. On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:57 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: Sarah That's precisely why interpretation should not happen. The screen-reader should read what's on screen and not what it thinks is meant by something. Sure, give the user the option to change it if they prefer. But don't force these abbreviations on us. Gordon On 30 Aug 2011, at 17:37, Sarah Alawami wrote: but that's the thing. what might be writ to one person might not be write to another. I read and write things that are right to me and are supposed to be pronounced x or y way, how ever the screen reader vender should not decide for us what is correct and what is not. Take care all. On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:20 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: Hello Sarah The point here, even if you can modify the pronunciation dictionaries is that you shouldn't have too. The screen-reader should read what is present on screen not what somebody else thinks was meant. On 30 Aug 2011, at 16:17, Sarah Alawami wrote: You can just edit the dictionary and see if that works. I do that a a lot. for words the tI know it will mispronounce, like my name lol! and it read the dates and times correctly in that message btw and Im using the default voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Chris Did not Gordon give specifics which pertain to Apple voices? He deliberately dis not mention the Acapella voices. So what was the point of this post? :) On 30 Aug 2011, at 21:54, Chris G wrote: Acapela™ and Nuance are not apple voices. --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Hi all You know, this really is starting to bug me. I'm talking about the way Apple insists on changing what's written on the screen to dates and things that they think should be there. How on earth is this a valid date? I say we should start a campaign to have Apple stop mucking around with on-screen content and give us what's really there, not what they think should be there. I mean, what the hell do they mean by Version the first of february two thousand and twenty-eight, as in Esther's quite legitimate post?Come on Apple, this is totally pathetic. Gordon On 28 Aug 2011, at 23:47, Esther wrote: According to the Dropbox forums, the latest beta (released two days ago), is version 1.2.28, and the Mac version can be downloaded from: --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
Re: On-Screen Content, let's all bug Apple!
Hi Gordon, This is something that the Infovox voices do, not Apple's. In fact, if you switch to a voice by Apple, Alex or others do not interpret this wrongly. I'm guessing in some places this is another way to format the dates, and VoiceOver does not always govern how information is interpreted particularly not by other synthesizers. Regards, Nic On Aug 29, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: Hi all You know, this really is starting to bug me. I'm talking about the way Apple insists on changing what's written on the screen to dates and things that they think should be there. How on earth is this a valid date? I say we should start a campaign to have Apple stop mucking around with on-screen content and give us what's really there, not what they think should be there. I mean, what the hell do they mean by Version the first of february two thousand and twenty-eight, as in Esther's quite legitimate post?Come on Apple, this is totally pathetic. Gordon On 28 Aug 2011, at 23:47, Esther wrote: According to the Dropbox forums, the latest beta (released two days ago), is version 1.2.28, and the Mac version can be downloaded from: --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/ --- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --- To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html or at the public Mail Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/
