Re: shame on you apple

[Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith]

Hello Jonathan

On 31 Jul 2011, at 13:39, Jonathan Cohn wrote:

• My mistake.  My proofreading missed that.  The key sequence should have been 
command option r 

Ah, OK. I haven't seen that option; but we can try it if need be. It's useful 
information so thank you. We are currently having a huge amount of problems 
with Lion Server. if only if only there were a way to install SL and then 
upgrade. But it just seems impossible.

If, however, anybody knows differently we're open to suggestions.

Lynne


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Re: shame on you apple

[Mike Arrigo]

Apple does sell an external super drive, but I would not get it for a couple 
reasons. Apparently it only works with the macbook air or the new mac mini. I 
would get something like a plextor or another brand. The other issue I have 
with Apple's drive is, apparently the USB cable is hard wired in to the drive. 
So if your cable has a problem, you're sunk. Most other drives use a regular 
usb cable, if the cable has problems, simply replace the cable.
On Jul 31, 2011, at 12:01 AM, Chris Moore wrote:

> Personally, I think they should have put a blu-ray player in it, especially 
> now as the mini has HDMI.  Would make the perfect little media server.
> 
> But to remove the DVD and keep it the same size? crazy.  Do Apple sell 
> external DVD drives? or do you have to get a third party model?
> 
> I fancy grabbing a new iMac next year, hope they do not remove the drive from 
> there.
> On 31 Jul 2011, at 03:44, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> 
>> I can understand somewhat not including a DVD drive with themacbook air, 
>> many computers of that size do not include these. But I think removing the 
>> DVD drive from the mac mini is going too far. There will probably come a 
>> time when disks will no longer be used, but we are not there yet. I still 
>> use dvd drives quite a bit, even it's for playing audio disks.
>> On Jul 30, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Jonathan
>>> 
>>> Actually you're mistaken about the Command+R option, it works on every Lion 
>>> installation on every machine I believe.  Certainly it works on our 2009 
>>> MacBook Pro, my work machines and also their Mac Pros.
>>> 
>>> But I believe that, although Apple is pushing the bounds, they're pushing 
>>> things too far too fast.  The reason is simple:  As you quite rightly say, 
>>> the availability of uncapped high-speed Internet connectivity is sparse in 
>>> places and it turns the availability of Lion into a bit of what we'd call a 
>>> "Post Code (you'd call it a zip code) lottery.
>>> 
>>> Gordon
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 20:56, Jon Cohn wrote:
>>> 
>>> Gordon,
>>> 
>>> What I have read is that this is true with all of the hardware that was 
>>> shipped with Lion on it.  Apparently the Lion on the new systems is 
>>> slightly different from the Lion being shipped via the AppStore.
>>> 
>>> One important new feature that is only available on the new Air's and 
>>> Mini's is the option-command-R at boot.  This will download a copy of Lion 
>>> from the Apple even if the recovery partition has been corrupted or 
>>> destroyed.
>>> 
>>> The complaints I hear now remind me very much of when Apple decided to ship 
>>> the first iMac computers with a CD and no floppy of any kind.  People kept 
>>> asking about how software installs would work...  I don't believe that 
>>> affordable high speed network access is sufficiently available at this 
>>> time, but perhaps Apple is just a wee bit ahead of their time once again.  
>>> There were options when the floppy was dropped as standard and there are 
>>> options now for the optical storage.  We won't really know if the dropping 
>>> of Apple optical media was a mistake or just another branch in the 
>>> evolution of the computer.  One thing is definitely true, and that is it 
>>> will save Apple on not only the initial hardware but on repairs to the 
>>> fragile drives. I would expect that everybody in this group knows somebody 
>>> who had a optical drive stop working.
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>> On Jul 30, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Nic
 
 It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the 
 server hardware.
 
 Gordon
 
 On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
 
 Hi!
 
 Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of 
 a roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found 
 so far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to 
 format the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, 
 then launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the 
 image off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to 
 be the method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an 
 upgrade from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App 
 Store, and I can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs 
 the Application later in order to get access to the disk image on your 
 internal drive, it can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch 
 without a DVD or downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded 
 an application which contained an application to extract the recovery 
 image, it'd be another story as you 
 c
> o
>> u
>>> ld
 then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
 recovery partition.
 
 <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --

RE: shame on you apple

[Jonathan Cohn]

My mistake.  My proofreading missed that.  The key sequence should have been 
command option r 

-Original Message-
From: Jon Cohn 
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 3:56 PM
To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility 
Subject: Re: shame on you apple

Gordon,

What I have read is that this is true with all of the hardware that was shipped 
with Lion on it.  Apparently the Lion on the new systems is slightly different 
from the Lion being shipped via the AppStore.

One important new feature that is only available on the new Air's and Mini's is 
the option-command-R at boot.  This will download a copy of Lion from the Apple 
even if the recovery partition has been corrupted or destroyed.

The complaints I hear now remind me very much of when Apple decided to ship the 
first iMac computers with a CD and no floppy of any kind.  People kept asking 
about how software installs would work...  I don't believe that affordable high 
speed network access is sufficiently available at this time, but perhaps Apple 
is just a wee bit ahead of their time once again.  There were options when the 
floppy was dropped as standard and there are options now for the optical 
storage.  We won't really know if the dropping of Apple optical media was a 
mistake or just another branch in the evolution of the computer.  One thing is 
definitely true, and that is it will save Apple on not only the initial 
hardware but on repairs to the fragile drives. I would expect that everybody in 
this group knows somebody who had a optical drive stop working.

Jonathan
 
On Jul 30, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi Nic
> 
> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
> hardware.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and I 
> can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the Application 
> later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal drive, it 
> can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a DVD or 
> downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an application which 
> contained an application to extract the recovery image, it'd be another story 
> as you cou
 ld
> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
> recovery partition.
> 
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Re: shame on you apple

[Chris Moore]

Personally, I think they should have put a blu-ray player in it, especially now 
as the mini has HDMI.  Would make the perfect little media server.

But to remove the DVD and keep it the same size? crazy.  Do Apple sell external 
DVD drives? or do you have to get a third party model?

I fancy grabbing a new iMac next year, hope they do not remove the drive from 
there.
On 31 Jul 2011, at 03:44, Mike Arrigo wrote:

> I can understand somewhat not including a DVD drive with themacbook air, many 
> computers of that size do not include these. But I think removing the DVD 
> drive from the mac mini is going too far. There will probably come a time 
> when disks will no longer be used, but we are not there yet. I still use dvd 
> drives quite a bit, even it's for playing audio disks.
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jonathan
>> 
>> Actually you're mistaken about the Command+R option, it works on every Lion 
>> installation on every machine I believe.  Certainly it works on our 2009 
>> MacBook Pro, my work machines and also their Mac Pros.
>> 
>> But I believe that, although Apple is pushing the bounds, they're pushing 
>> things too far too fast.  The reason is simple:  As you quite rightly say, 
>> the availability of uncapped high-speed Internet connectivity is sparse in 
>> places and it turns the availability of Lion into a bit of what we'd call a 
>> "Post Code (you'd call it a zip code) lottery.
>> 
>> Gordon
>> 
>> 
>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 20:56, Jon Cohn wrote:
>> 
>> Gordon,
>> 
>> What I have read is that this is true with all of the hardware that was 
>> shipped with Lion on it.  Apparently the Lion on the new systems is slightly 
>> different from the Lion being shipped via the AppStore.
>> 
>> One important new feature that is only available on the new Air's and Mini's 
>> is the option-command-R at boot.  This will download a copy of Lion from the 
>> Apple even if the recovery partition has been corrupted or destroyed.
>> 
>> The complaints I hear now remind me very much of when Apple decided to ship 
>> the first iMac computers with a CD and no floppy of any kind.  People kept 
>> asking about how software installs would work...  I don't believe that 
>> affordable high speed network access is sufficiently available at this time, 
>> but perhaps Apple is just a wee bit ahead of their time once again.  There 
>> were options when the floppy was dropped as standard and there are options 
>> now for the optical storage.  We won't really know if the dropping of Apple 
>> optical media was a mistake or just another branch in the evolution of the 
>> computer.  One thing is definitely true, and that is it will save Apple on 
>> not only the initial hardware but on repairs to the fragile drives. I would 
>> expect that everybody in this group knows somebody who had a optical drive 
>> stop working.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>> On Jul 30, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Nic
>>> 
>>> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the 
>>> server hardware.
>>> 
>>> Gordon
>>> 
>>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
>>> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
>>> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
>>> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
>>> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
>>> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
>>> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
>>> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and 
>>> I can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the 
>>> Application later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal 
>>> drive, it can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a 
>>> DVD or downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an 
>>> application which contained an application to extract the recovery image, 
>>> it'd be another story as you c
 o
> u
>> ld
>>> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
>>> recovery partition.
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>> and worm-free!
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>>> the list website at:
>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --

Re: shame on you apple

[Mike Arrigo]

I can understand somewhat not including a DVD drive with themacbook air, many 
computers of that size do not include these. But I think removing the DVD drive 
from the mac mini is going too far. There will probably come a time when disks 
will no longer be used, but we are not there yet. I still use dvd drives quite 
a bit, even it's for playing audio disks.
On Jul 30, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi Jonathan
> 
> Actually you're mistaken about the Command+R option, it works on every Lion 
> installation on every machine I believe.  Certainly it works on our 2009 
> MacBook Pro, my work machines and also their Mac Pros.
> 
> But I believe that, although Apple is pushing the bounds, they're pushing 
> things too far too fast.  The reason is simple:  As you quite rightly say, 
> the availability of uncapped high-speed Internet connectivity is sparse in 
> places and it turns the availability of Lion into a bit of what we'd call a 
> "Post Code (you'd call it a zip code) lottery.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 20:56, Jon Cohn wrote:
> 
> Gordon,
> 
> What I have read is that this is true with all of the hardware that was 
> shipped with Lion on it.  Apparently the Lion on the new systems is slightly 
> different from the Lion being shipped via the AppStore.
> 
> One important new feature that is only available on the new Air's and Mini's 
> is the option-command-R at boot.  This will download a copy of Lion from the 
> Apple even if the recovery partition has been corrupted or destroyed.
> 
> The complaints I hear now remind me very much of when Apple decided to ship 
> the first iMac computers with a CD and no floppy of any kind.  People kept 
> asking about how software installs would work...  I don't believe that 
> affordable high speed network access is sufficiently available at this time, 
> but perhaps Apple is just a wee bit ahead of their time once again.  There 
> were options when the floppy was dropped as standard and there are options 
> now for the optical storage.  We won't really know if the dropping of Apple 
> optical media was a mistake or just another branch in the evolution of the 
> computer.  One thing is definitely true, and that is it will save Apple on 
> not only the initial hardware but on repairs to the fragile drives. I would 
> expect that everybody in this group knows somebody who had a optical drive 
> stop working.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hi Nic
>> 
>> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
>> hardware.
>> 
>> Gordon
>> 
>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
>> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
>> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
>> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
>> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
>> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
>> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
>> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and 
>> I can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the 
>> Application later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal 
>> drive, it can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a DVD 
>> or downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an application 
>> which contained an application to extract the recovery image, it'd be 
>> another story as you co
 u
> ld
>> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
>> recovery partition.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
>> 
>> 
>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>> and worm-free!
>> 
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>> the list website at:
>> 
> 
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Re: shame on you apple

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, any time a new operating system is released, I prefer to doa clean 
install. For the most part, I have everything installed and configured with 
lion, and everything seems to be working well. Going to run this for a little 
while before upgrading my other macs. The newest adobe flash can now be 
configured in system preferences, there are also new betas of cocktail and onyx 
for lion, and these appear to work well.
On Jul 30, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> Yeha I noticed that as well. I did a clean install and now my machine is 
> running a lot better.
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> 
>> A clean instal can definitely be done, several of us have done it, myself 
>> included. What is interesting, during the install, there is a customize 
>> button, but it's disabled.
>> On Jul 30, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Missy Hoppe wrote:
>> 
>>> That is correct. In fact, when I asked an apple rep about doing a clean 
>>> install, I was basicly told that it can't be done.
>>> Obviously, this isn't the case, and once an update or tow has been released 
>>> to fix some of the more serious bugs, I intend to
>>> attempt a clean lion install, but the rep I talked to basicly said that by 
>>> doing it as an update over top of SL, I was doing
>>> it correctly, and that a clean install wouldn't resolve any of my issues. 
>>> So, even if I do try a clean lion install some day,
>>> I'm going to keep the backup I made  prior to going back to SL, because all 
>>> my voices, settings, etc. are in place on that
>>> backup.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
>>> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of James AUSTIN
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:02 PM
>>> To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
>>> Subject: Re: shame on you apple
>>> 
>>> Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over 
>>> the top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me,
>>> opted to do a fresh installation, which is something I always do with new 
>>> operating systems.
>>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:
>>> 
>>>> hi all
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
>>>> anything?
>>>> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
>>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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>>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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>>> 
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Re: shame on you apple

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi James,

I was referring to OS X Server, and not OS X. I should have clarified.

Regards,
Nic
On Jul 30, 2011, at 9:59 PM, James AUSTIN wrote:

> Hi Nic, 
> 
> I am probably misunderstanding your comment, but I was able to transfer the 
> downloaded installer for OS X Lion on to an external drive before wiping this 
> drive clean and installing cleanly.
> 
> TC :)
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 20:25, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
>> Hi Gordon,
>> 
>> Would it work if you went and bought the application?
>> 
>> I know that's entirely ridiculous if that was the case, since you seemingly 
>> can't even transfer the downloaded application elsewhere when downloading it 
>> when reinstalling, but I guess it might be worth knowing. It completely 
>> defeats the point of being able to control the installation completely, but 
>> even so.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Nic
>> On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Nic
>>> 
>>> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the 
>>> server hardware.
>>> 
>>> Gordon
>>> 
>>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
>>> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
>>> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
>>> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
>>> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
>>> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
>>> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
>>> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and 
>>> I can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the 
>>> Application later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal 
>>> drive, it can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a 
>>> DVD or downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an 
>>> application which contained an application to extract the recovery image, 
>>> it'd be another story as you c
 o
> u
>> ld
>>> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
>>> recovery partition.
>>> 
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>> and worm-free!
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>>> the list website at:
>>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
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>> 
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>> and worm-free!
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> 
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Re: shame on you apple

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Jonathan

Actually you're mistaken about the Command+R option, it works on every Lion 
installation on every machine I believe.  Certainly it works on our 2009 
MacBook Pro, my work machines and also their Mac Pros.

But I believe that, although Apple is pushing the bounds, they're pushing 
things too far too fast.  The reason is simple:  As you quite rightly say, the 
availability of uncapped high-speed Internet connectivity is sparse in places 
and it turns the availability of Lion into a bit of what we'd call a "Post Code 
(you'd call it a zip code) lottery.

Gordon


On 30 Jul 2011, at 20:56, Jon Cohn wrote:

Gordon,

What I have read is that this is true with all of the hardware that was shipped 
with Lion on it.  Apparently the Lion on the new systems is slightly different 
from the Lion being shipped via the AppStore.

One important new feature that is only available on the new Air's and Mini's is 
the option-command-R at boot.  This will download a copy of Lion from the Apple 
even if the recovery partition has been corrupted or destroyed.

The complaints I hear now remind me very much of when Apple decided to ship the 
first iMac computers with a CD and no floppy of any kind.  People kept asking 
about how software installs would work...  I don't believe that affordable high 
speed network access is sufficiently available at this time, but perhaps Apple 
is just a wee bit ahead of their time once again.  There were options when the 
floppy was dropped as standard and there are options now for the optical 
storage.  We won't really know if the dropping of Apple optical media was a 
mistake or just another branch in the evolution of the computer.  One thing is 
definitely true, and that is it will save Apple on not only the initial 
hardware but on repairs to the fragile drives. I would expect that everybody in 
this group knows somebody who had a optical drive stop working.

Jonathan

On Jul 30, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi Nic
> 
> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
> hardware.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and I 
> can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the Application 
> later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal drive, it 
> can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a DVD or 
> downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an application which 
> contained an application to extract the recovery image, it'd be another story 
> as you cou
ld
> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
> recovery partition.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
> 
> 
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> worm-free!
> 
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Re: shame on you apple

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Nic

I'm not sure what you mean.  Bought the application?

Gordon

On 30 Jul 2011, at 20:25, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:

Hi Gordon,

Would it work if you went and bought the application?

I know that's entirely ridiculous if that was the case, since you seemingly 
can't even transfer the downloaded application elsewhere when downloading it 
when reinstalling, but I guess it might be worth knowing. It completely defeats 
the point of being able to control the installation completely, but even so.

Regards,
Nic
On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi Nic
> 
> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
> hardware.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and I 
> can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the Application 
> later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal drive, it 
> can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a DVD or 
> downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an application which 
> contained an application to extract the recovery image, it'd be another story 
> as you cou
ld
> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
> recovery partition.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
> 
> 
> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free!
> 
> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
> the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: shame on you apple

[James AUSTIN]

Hi Nic, 

I am probably misunderstanding your comment, but I was able to transfer the 
downloaded installer for OS X Lion on to an external drive before wiping this 
drive clean and installing cleanly.

TC :)
On 30 Jul 2011, at 20:25, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:

> Hi Gordon,
> 
> Would it work if you went and bought the application?
> 
> I know that's entirely ridiculous if that was the case, since you seemingly 
> can't even transfer the downloaded application elsewhere when downloading it 
> when reinstalling, but I guess it might be worth knowing. It completely 
> defeats the point of being able to control the installation completely, but 
> even so.
> 
> Regards,
> Nic
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> 
>> Hi Nic
>> 
>> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
>> hardware.
>> 
>> Gordon
>> 
>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
>> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
>> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
>> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
>> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
>> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
>> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
>> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and 
>> I can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the 
>> Application later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal 
>> drive, it can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a DVD 
>> or downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an application 
>> which contained an application to extract the recovery image, it'd be 
>> another story as you co
 u
> ld
>> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
>> recovery partition.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
>> 
>> 
>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>> and worm-free!
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>> the list website at:
>> 
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
> 
> 
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> worm-free!
> 
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Re: shame on you apple

[Jon Cohn]

Gordon,

What I have read is that this is true with all of the hardware that was shipped 
with Lion on it.  Apparently the Lion on the new systems is slightly different 
from the Lion being shipped via the AppStore.

One important new feature that is only available on the new Air's and Mini's is 
the option-command-R at boot.  This will download a copy of Lion from the Apple 
even if the recovery partition has been corrupted or destroyed.

The complaints I hear now remind me very much of when Apple decided to ship the 
first iMac computers with a CD and no floppy of any kind.  People kept asking 
about how software installs would work...  I don't believe that affordable high 
speed network access is sufficiently available at this time, but perhaps Apple 
is just a wee bit ahead of their time once again.  There were options when the 
floppy was dropped as standard and there are options now for the optical 
storage.  We won't really know if the dropping of Apple optical media was a 
mistake or just another branch in the evolution of the computer.  One thing is 
definitely true, and that is it will save Apple on not only the initial 
hardware but on repairs to the fragile drives. I would expect that everybody in 
this group knows somebody who had a optical drive stop working.

Jonathan
 
On Jul 30, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi Nic
> 
> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
> hardware.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and I 
> can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the Application 
> later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal drive, it 
> can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a DVD or 
> downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an application which 
> contained an application to extract the recovery image, it'd be another story 
> as you cou
 ld
> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
> recovery partition.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
> 
> 
> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free!
> 
> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
> the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: shame on you apple

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi Gordon,

Would it work if you went and bought the application?

I know that's entirely ridiculous if that was the case, since you seemingly 
can't even transfer the downloaded application elsewhere when downloading it 
when reinstalling, but I guess it might be worth knowing. It completely defeats 
the point of being able to control the installation completely, but even so.

Regards,
Nic
On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:

> Hi Nic
> 
> It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
> hardware.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
> roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so 
> far was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format 
> the drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then 
> launching its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image 
> off of Apple's servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the 
> method Apple even recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade 
> from Snow Leopard to Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and I 
> can see why. Since the Recovery Partition it carves out needs the Application 
> later in order to get access to the disk image on your internal drive, it 
> can't format the drive nor reinstall it from scratch without a DVD or 
> downloading a new installer. Now, if it only downloaded an application which 
> contained an application to extract the recovery image, it'd be another story 
> as you cou
 ld
> then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
> recovery partition.
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> mac-access@mac-access.net
> 
> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
> 
> 
> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free!
> 
> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
> the list website at:
> 

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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Re: shame on you apple

[Gordon Smith]

Hi Nic

It's worth pointing out again that the DVD option doesn't work on the server 
hardware.

Gordon

On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:57, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:

Hi!

Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so far 
was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format the 
drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then launching 
its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image off of Apple's 
servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the method Apple even 
recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade from Snow Leopard to 
Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and I can see why. Since the 
Recovery Partition it carves out needs the Application later in order to get 
access to the disk image on your internal drive, it can't format the drive nor 
reinstall it from scratch without a DVD or downloading a new installer. Now, if 
it only downloaded an application which contained an application to extract the 
recovery image, it'd be another story as you could
 then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
recovery partition.

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
Mac-Access forum at the following URL:


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Re: shame on you apple

[Sarah Alawami]

Yeha I noticed that as well. I did a clean install and now my machine is 
running a lot better.
On Jul 30, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:

> A clean instal can definitely be done, several of us have done it, myself 
> included. What is interesting, during the install, there is a customize 
> button, but it's disabled.
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Missy Hoppe wrote:
> 
>> That is correct. In fact, when I asked an apple rep about doing a clean 
>> install, I was basicly told that it can't be done.
>> Obviously, this isn't the case, and once an update or tow has been released 
>> to fix some of the more serious bugs, I intend to
>> attempt a clean lion install, but the rep I talked to basicly said that by 
>> doing it as an update over top of SL, I was doing
>> it correctly, and that a clean install wouldn't resolve any of my issues. 
>> So, even if I do try a clean lion install some day,
>> I'm going to keep the backup I made  prior to going back to SL, because all 
>> my voices, settings, etc. are in place on that
>> backup.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
>> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of James AUSTIN
>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:02 PM
>> To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
>> Subject: Re: shame on you apple
>> 
>> Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over 
>> the top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me,
>> opted to do a fresh installation, which is something I always do with new 
>> operating systems.
>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:
>> 
>>> hi all
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
>>> anything?
>>> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>> 
>>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>> and worm-free!
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>>> the list website at:
>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
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>> 
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>> and worm-free!
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
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> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
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> 
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Re: shame on you apple

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi!

Yeah, the button is definitely there. I've done it, too, but it's kind of a 
roundabout way of performing a clean install. The fastest way I've found so far 
was to burn it to a DVD, then use Disk utilities on that DVD to format the 
drive and install the operating system. Installing OS X Lion, then launching 
its recovery partition only to reformat, then download the image off of Apple's 
servers seems ridiculous, even though that seems to be the method Apple even 
recommends. I guess, in truth, it was meant as an upgrade from Snow Leopard to 
Lion given its distribution through the App Store, and I can see why. Since the 
Recovery Partition it carves out needs the Application later in order to get 
access to the disk image on your internal drive, it can't format the drive nor 
reinstall it from scratch without a DVD or downloading a new installer. Now, if 
it only downloaded an application which contained an application to extract the 
recovery image, it'd be another story as you could
  then download the entire operating system off of Apple's servers from the 
recovery partition.

Regards,
Nic
On Jul 30, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:

> A clean instal can definitely be done, several of us have done it, myself 
> included. What is interesting, during the install, there is a customize 
> button, but it's disabled.
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Missy Hoppe wrote:
> 
>> That is correct. In fact, when I asked an apple rep about doing a clean 
>> install, I was basicly told that it can't be done.
>> Obviously, this isn't the case, and once an update or tow has been released 
>> to fix some of the more serious bugs, I intend to
>> attempt a clean lion install, but the rep I talked to basicly said that by 
>> doing it as an update over top of SL, I was doing
>> it correctly, and that a clean install wouldn't resolve any of my issues. 
>> So, even if I do try a clean lion install some day,
>> I'm going to keep the backup I made  prior to going back to SL, because all 
>> my voices, settings, etc. are in place on that
>> backup.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
>> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of James AUSTIN
>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:02 PM
>> To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
>> Subject: Re: shame on you apple
>> 
>> Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over 
>> the top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me,
>> opted to do a fresh installation, which is something I always do with new 
>> operating systems.
>> On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:
>> 
>>> hi all
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
>>> anything?
>>> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>>> 
>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>>> 
>>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>>> 
>>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>>> and worm-free!
>>> 
>>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>>> the list website at:
>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>> 
>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>> and worm-free!
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>> the list website at:
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>> 
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
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>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
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&g

Re: shame on you apple

[Mike Arrigo]

A clean instal can definitely be done, several of us have done it, myself 
included. What is interesting, during the install, there is a customize button, 
but it's disabled.
On Jul 30, 2011, at 11:09 AM, Missy Hoppe wrote:

> That is correct. In fact, when I asked an apple rep about doing a clean 
> install, I was basicly told that it can't be done.
> Obviously, this isn't the case, and once an update or tow has been released 
> to fix some of the more serious bugs, I intend to
> attempt a clean lion install, but the rep I talked to basicly said that by 
> doing it as an update over top of SL, I was doing
> it correctly, and that a clean install wouldn't resolve any of my issues. So, 
> even if I do try a clean lion install some day,
> I'm going to keep the backup I made  prior to going back to SL, because all 
> my voices, settings, etc. are in place on that
> backup.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of James AUSTIN
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:02 PM
> To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
> Subject: Re: shame on you apple
> 
> Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over the 
> top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me,
> opted to do a fresh installation, which is something I always do with new 
> operating systems.
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:
> 
>> hi all
>> 
>> 
>> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
>> anything?
>> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> mac-access@mac-access.net
>> 
>> You can find a monthly formatted archive of all messages postedto the 
>> Mac-Access forum at the following URL:
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RE: shame on you apple

[michael weaver]

to do a clean install, you have to restart the mac with a burned 
copy of lion on it, hold the c key, not sure how long, make sure 
voiceover is running, pick utilities and disk utility.
you have to erase the entire disk.  i had a bit of a problem at 
the next stage so i decided after exiting disk utility to restart 
the mac and do the c key sequence again.
you then choose the install option from the menu that appears .  
that should give you a fresh install.
i made the mistake of not erasing my disc so it came up with my 
original settings and also as to why i was not asked the 
questions for a clean install ie to select the keyboard etc.

hope this helps.


- Original Message -
From: "Missy Hoppe" 

That is correct.  In fact, when I asked an apple rep about doing 

a clean install, I was basicly told that it can't be done.
Obviously, this isn't the case, and once an update or tow has 

been released to fix some of the more serious bugs, I intend to
attempt a clean lion install, but the rep I talked to basicly 

said that by doing it as an update over top of SL, I was doing
it correctly, and that a clean install wouldn't resolve any of my 

issues.  So, even if I do try a clean lion install some day,
I'm going to keep the backup I made  prior to going back to SL, 

because all my voices, settings, etc.  are in place on that

backup.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of James 
AUSTIN

Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:02 PM
To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: shame on you apple


Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be 

installed over the top of Snow Leopard.  It's just me being me,
opted to do a fresh installation, which is something I always do 

with new operating systems.

On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:



hi all



Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no 

options to set anything?
no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not 

impressed

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Re: shame on you apple

[Mike Arrigo]

I don't think any printer drivers were installed, it will download them if t 
needs to.
On Jul 30, 2011, at 10:56 AM, william lomas wrote:

> hi all
> 
> 
> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
> anything?
> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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Re: shame on you apple

[Gordon Smith]

Just shows what they know, doesn't it. :)

On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:09, Missy Hoppe wrote:

That is correct. In fact, when I asked an apple rep about doing a clean 
install, I was basicly told that it can't be done.
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RE: shame on you apple

[Missy Hoppe]

That is correct. In fact, when I asked an apple rep about doing a clean 
install, I was basicly told that it can't be done.
Obviously, this isn't the case, and once an update or tow has been released to 
fix some of the more serious bugs, I intend to
attempt a clean lion install, but the rep I talked to basicly said that by 
doing it as an update over top of SL, I was doing
it correctly, and that a clean install wouldn't resolve any of my issues. So, 
even if I do try a clean lion install some day,
I'm going to keep the backup I made  prior to going back to SL, because all my 
voices, settings, etc. are in place on that
backup.

-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of James AUSTIN
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:02 PM
To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: shame on you apple

Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over the 
top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me,
opted to do a fresh installation, which is something I always do with new 
operating systems.
On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:

> hi all
>
>
> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
> anything?
> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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>
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Re: shame on you apple

[Gordon Smith]

James

Actually if you look on the support pages it tells you how to do a fresh, 
clean, install.

Gordon

On 30 Jul 2011, at 17:02, James AUSTIN wrote:

Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over the 
top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me, opted to do a fresh installation, 
which is something I always do with new operating systems. 
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Re: shame on you apple

[william lomas]

so apple have installed loads of rubbish id isn't want like chinese languages, 
and printer drivers?

On Jul 30, 2011, at 5:02 PM, James AUSTIN wrote:

> Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over the 
> top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me, opted to do a fresh installation, 
> which is something I always do with new operating systems. 
> On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:
> 
>> hi all
>> 
>> 
>> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
>> anything?
>> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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Re: shame on you apple

[James AUSTIN]

Because, Lion as far as i understand it was supposed to be installed over the 
top of Snow Leopard. It's just me being me, opted to do a fresh installation, 
which is something I always do with new operating systems. 
On 30 Jul 2011, at 16:56, william lomas wrote:

> hi all
> 
> 
> Why was it please when I ran install of lion was I given no options to set 
> anything?
> no language choices, printer drivers, it just ran install not impressed
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
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