Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Ashley Aitken]

I haven't received a phone call from Tim just yet, but perhaps I was out when 
he rang ;-)

<http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/16/apple-working-on-allowing-the-merging-of-multiple-apple-ids/>

Of course, it's just a rumour but that's better than nothing.

I'm pretty sure it won't allow merging accounts internationally though ...

Cheers,
Ashley.


--
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Perth, Western Australia
mrhatken at mac dot com
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On Sep 16, 2011, at 8:33, Ashley Aitken  wrote:
> I'm pretty sure it won't allow merging accounts internationally though

Probably not, but being able to merge some accounts will be nice.

I have the problem where I have an iPad that my eldest uses, and I want him to 
be able to have iTunes gift cards I his own account and be ale to buy apps, but 
I don't want to give him my apple id, especially since I use it for all sorts 
of stuff at Apple.

I'm waiting to see what Apple does about this. There's got to be a lot of 
people with multiple users and multiple iOS devices in the same basic boat. The 
one thing I know I am not doing is setting up ids for everyone.

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Arno Hautala]

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:30, LuKreme  wrote:
>
> I have the problem where I have an iPad that my eldest uses, and I want him 
> to be able to have iTunes gift cards I his own account and be ale to buy 
> apps, but I don't want to give him my apple id, especially since I use it for 
> all sorts of stuff at Apple.

I doubt Apple will allow having multiple IDs being active on the same
device at once. It sounds to me like the "merging" would be achieved
by choosing one account to use going forward and transfering existing
data and purchases to that account.

> The one thing I know I am not doing is setting up ids for everyone.

I'm not convinced that you'll be able to avoid this.

Apple's stance seems to be that either you use one account to manage
your household, or you allow each user to have an independent account.
It'd certainly be nice to have "family accounts", with one parent
account and several other child accounts which can have some
independent data, but shared purchase access. This just seems like
it'd be too liberal for Apple's licenses. Plus they'd have to handle
spliting a child account off into a fully independent one, possibly
merging independent accounts into a family account, etc.

One account per household or device is far simpler, at the expense of
some user customization.
But, that's how Apple rolls.


-- 
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[David Patrick Henderson]

On 16 Sep 2011, at 09:55, Arno Hautala wrote:

> I doubt Apple will allow having multiple IDs being active on the same device 
> at once.

But they already do allow this behavior at least on desktops and laptops, and 
I’ve seen at least one person post here that this also works to some degree on 
iOS.


David P Henderson
c: 757.286.3212
--
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
-- Albert Einstein

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Arno Hautala]

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 18:52, David Patrick Henderson
 wrote:
>
> On 16 Sep 2011, at 09:55, Arno Hautala wrote:
>
>> I doubt Apple will allow having multiple IDs being active on the same device 
>> at once.
>
> But they already do allow this behavior at least on desktops and laptops, and 
> I’ve seen at least one person post here that this also works to some degree 
> on iOS.

Mmm, I could be wrong. It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing
they'd do with iOS. Those devices seem like they're set up for use by
an individual, while OS X devices are useable by multiple people and
include support for that use.

Enh, we'll see soon enough. Multiple active IDs certainly would make a
lot of people happy.

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[David Patrick Henderson]

On 16 Sep 2011, at 18:34, Arno Hautala wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 18:52, David Patrick Henderson
>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 16 Sep 2011, at 09:55, Arno Hautala wrote:
>> 
>>> I doubt Apple will allow having multiple IDs being active on the same 
>>> device at once.
>> 
>> But they already do allow this behavior at least on desktops and laptops, 
>> and I’ve seen at least one person post here that this also works to some 
>> degree on iOS.
> 
> Mmm, I could be wrong. It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing
> they'd do with iOS. Those devices seem like they're set up for use by
> an individual, while OS X devices are useable by multiple people and
> include support for that use.
> 
> Enh, we'll see soon enough. Multiple active IDs certainly would make a
> lot of people happy.


Maybe we need to define what is meant by “active” IDs. I know that in iTunes, I 
have at least 4 ids authorized concurrently, but most of my purchases have been 
under only one of them.

--
David P Henderson
c: xxx.xxx.

"There is a pleasure in creating well-written, understandable programs. There 
is a satisfaction in finding a program structure that tames the complexity of 
an application. We enjoy seeing our algorithms expressed clearly and 
persuasively. We also profit from our clearly written programs, for they are 
much more likely to be correct and maintainable than obscure ones."
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On 16 Sep 2011, at 10:55 , Arno Hautala wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:30, LuKreme  wrote:
>> 
>> I have the problem where I have an iPad that my eldest uses, and I want him 
>> to be able to have iTunes gift cards I his own account and be ale to buy 
>> apps, but I don't want to give him my apple id, especially since I use it 
>> for all sorts of stuff at Apple.
> 
> I doubt Apple will allow having multiple IDs being active on the same
> device at once.

They always have done in the past. I doubt that will change.


-- 
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ones.' 

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Arno Hautala]

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 00:36, LuKreme  wrote:
>
> On 16 Sep 2011, at 10:55 , Arno Hautala wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:30, LuKreme  wrote:
>>>
>>> I have the problem where I have an iPad that my eldest uses, and I want him 
>>> to be able to have iTunes gift cards I his own account and be ale to buy 
>>> apps, but I don't want to give him my apple id, especially since I use it 
>>> for all sorts of stuff at Apple.
>>
>> I doubt Apple will allow having multiple IDs being active on the same
>> device at once.
>
> They always have done in the past. I doubt that will change.

I'm confused then. I thought you were saying you couldn't do this, as
in your example with your son. If you can have multiple accounts
active, what's the problem with having gift cards on his account?


On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 23:01, David Patrick Henderson
 wrote:
>
> Maybe we need to define what is meant by “active” IDs. I know that in iTunes, 
> I have at least 4 ids authorized concurrently, but most of my purchases have 
> been under only one of them.

Yes, I thought you could only have one account in use on an iOS device
at a time for purchasing. And the same with OS X. Hence the 90 day
account switching restriction. I know you can use purchases from
multiple accounts, but to be honest, I'm not sure of the details on
this as I've only ever needed one account.

So I guess I'm not sure what active means either.

The only wording I've seen that makes it look like a user could
actually be logged into multiple Apple ID / Mobile Me / iCloud
accounts is if one is used for mail and syncing, and another is used
for purchasing. I haven't seen anything to indicate that users will be
able to quickly switch between accounts when purchasing content on a
device.

-- 
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On 17 Sep 2011, at 10:31 , Arno Hautala wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 00:36, LuKreme  wrote:
>> 
>> On 16 Sep 2011, at 10:55 , Arno Hautala wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:30, LuKreme  wrote:
 
 I have the problem where I have an iPad that my eldest uses, and I want 
 him to be able to have iTunes gift cards I his own account and be ale to 
 buy apps, but I don't want to give him my apple id, especially since I use 
 it for all sorts of stuff at Apple.
>>> 
>>> I doubt Apple will allow having multiple IDs being active on the same
>>> device at once.
>> 
>> They always have done in the past. I doubt that will change.
> 
> I'm confused then. I thought you were saying you couldn't do this, as
> in your example with your son. If you can have multiple accounts
> active, what's the problem with having gift cards on his account?

Because I don’t want to have to re-buy purchases for the other devices and I 
don’t want to have to manage 5 different accounts and sort out which account 
has what.

What I want is to have the main account and then have subordinate accounts so 
that I can give limited access to those accounts (for example, can only 
purchase off a gift card) but have those purchases all be grouped under the 
main account.

For example

  Account1
|- Account1.1
|- Account1.2
|- Account1.3
|- Accoumt1.4

Account1 has a credit card attached to it and can make any purchases. All those 
purchases can be used by account1 and by 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4.

1.1 (say the wife) also has access to the credit card and can make any 
purchases, “owned” by account1 and usable by 1.2 1.3, and 1.4.

1.2 (say elder son) can only access a gift card balance that is attached only 
to 1.2 (Account1.1, 1.3, and 1.4 cannot access that balance). Purchases are 
still "owned” but Account1 and can be used by the other accounts. Account1, 
obviously, *can* access the gift card balance, but it defaults to using the 
attached credit card.

1.3 & 1.4 (say younger kids) have no access to make purchases at all.

The most import an thing, however, is that ALL the accounts (1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 
1.4) can download and install updates to any installed apps, using their own 
passwords.

As it is right now, I have “Account1” and everything else I have to manually 
manage. I have to do the updates, track the gift cards, make the purchases, 
etc. This gets to be a huge issue when you have 8 iOS devices in the house (3 
iPads, 3 iPhones, 2 iPod Touches), some with older versions of the OS, and the 
number of iOS devices is growing. The management gets to be a big headache very 
quickly.

Also, currently, if someone brings me an iOS device because they need to 
install an update, I have to enter my password. Now my password is cached for a 
certain amount of time, and there is not easy way to tell when that cache 
expires.

-- 
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Arno Hautala]

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 14:12, LuKreme  wrote:
>
> What I want is to have the main account and then have subordinate accounts so 
> that I can give limited access to those accounts (for example, can only 
> purchase off a gift card) but have those purchases all be grouped under the 
> main account.

Gotcha, that's what I thought. It'd be a great feature. Unfortunately,
I don't see it happening. Apple doesn't even have something similar
for enterprise users.


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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Macs R We]

On Sep 17, 2011, at 12:20 PM, Arno Hautala wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 14:12, LuKreme  wrote:
>> 
>> What I want is to have the main account and then have subordinate accounts 
>> so that I can give limited access to those accounts (for example, can only 
>> purchase off a gift card) but have those purchases all be grouped under the 
>> main account.
> 
> Gotcha, that's what I thought. It'd be a great feature. Unfortunately,
> I don't see it happening. Apple doesn't even have something similar
> for enterprise users.

Ironically they once did.  It was called eWorld, and it had this exact account 
structure because AOL (from whom they licensed the code) did.  :-)

-- 
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   in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Ashley Aitken]

There is an interesting article in TidBITS#1094/19-Sep-2011:  


It's titled "Apple ID Becomes Mac OS X and iCloud Glue" and discusses issues we 
have been discussing here on this list.

Cheers,
Ashley.

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[objectwerks inc]

some info on iCloud and multiple IDs and itunes

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4895


"
Note: You can switch the Apple ID you use for store purchases at any time. 
However, you can only change the account you use for any iTunes in the Cloud 
features once every 90 days. See this article for more information.



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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Ashley Aitken]

This sounds good.

It seems you can use multiple Apple IDs for purchasing (so family members can 
each have a separate Apple ID(s) and balance(s)) and yet all share the same 
Apple ID for iCloud.   If anyone purchases anything use any Apple ID then it 
can be shared with all via iCloud.

Is that what others are understanding / seeing with the move to iCloud?  I'm 
just updating now ...

Of course, all this is probably limited by small numbers like 5 and 10.  It 
reminds me of services which lock the user out after three incorrect password 
attempts or even the iOS which does that silly increasing time-delay thing.  

Seriously, I think 30 second delay would be plenty to stop brute force 
attempts.  But I digress ..

Cheers,
Ashley.

On 15/10/2011, at 12:04 PM, objectwerks inc wrote:

> some info on iCloud and multiple IDs and itunes
> 
> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4895
> 
> 
> "
> Note: You can switch the Apple ID you use for store purchases at any time. 
> However, you can only change the account you use for any iTunes in the Cloud 
> features once every 90 days. See this article for more information.
> 
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On Oct 15, 2011, at 5:30, Ashley Aitken  wrote:

> It seems you can use multiple Apple IDs for purchasing (so family members can 
> each have a separate Apple ID(s) and balance(s)) and yet all share the same 
> Apple ID for iCloud.   If anyone purchases anything use any Apple ID then it 
> can be shared with all via iCloud.

Trouble is, contacts, reminders, calendars, notes, photostream, etc are all 
synced via iCloud.

I setup all the iOS devices with one iTunes store account and gave everyone 
their own iCloud account for now. We'll have to see how that works.

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Neil Laubenthal]

On Oct 15, 2011, at 11:09 PM,10/15, LuKreme wrote:

> I setup all the iOS devices with one iTunes store account and gave everyone 
> their own iCloud account for now. We'll have to see how that works.


That makes much more sense to me than Ashley's approach…now if they would only 
allow iTunes IDs to be combined life would be good. My wife and I both have 
Apple IDs (family pack, mine was the master and hers was a sub-account). I've 
converted mine to iCloud and hers will get converted later. We have both bought 
apps on our IDs; I would love to combine both of those into a third ID so that 
we could have a shared ID for purchases and separate IDs for 
mail/contacts/calendar. I have to believe that there isn't any real technical 
reason this couldn't be done which means that either there was a marketing 
decision against it or they just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet.

Would also be nice if the iWork document formats were aligned so that the same 
document would open on both iPad and Mac…that would allow easy sync of 
documents back and forth without having to do the download/upload sequence to 
edit on the Mac. Of course . . .that would also keep from having a local copy 
if it was only stored on iCloud I guess…a better solution would be to allow iOS 
apps direct read/write to/from DropBox since it already has the inter-computer 
sync built in.


---
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stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On 31 Oct 2011, at 13:46 , Neil Laubenthal wrote:
> We have both bought apps on our IDs;

This is the mistake I was very careful to avoid, but I was able to avoid it in 
part because my wife is perfectly willing to say, “I want this app, download it 
for me” which may not be the case with most anyone else. I was always very 
conscious that the ID I used for purchases had to be a single ID if I wanted to 
be sure all the apps would work on all my iOS devices, even though the only 
device I had at first was an iPod touch.

> I would love to combine both of those into a third ID so that we could have a 
> shared ID for purchases and separate IDs for mail/contacts/calendar. I have 
> to believe that there isn't any real technical reason this couldn't be done 
> which means that either there was a marketing decision against it or they 
> just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet.

I have to think that they know it’s a problem, I am less sure if they think it 
is a problem they need to solve or not. I can easily see Apple *not* allowing 
any sort of iCloud merging.

As it is, right now, I have 25GB of iCloud (I got a temp upgrade of +20GB when 
I moved from Mobile Me) and then my wife and the two kids each have 5GB of 
storage, which is more than enough for their backups and their documents (Even 
my eldest who is backing up an iPad and an iPhone has plenty of room).

the +20GB upgrade is $3.33 a month, so it seems like a no brainer I’m going to 
keep that, except I’m not sure how I would ever use that space. Putting things 
ON iCloud right now is a little odd. The only way to upload iWork documents is 
to go to iCloud.com, login, and then upload the files one at a time, and then I 
am only uploading text or Pages documents

I don’t have 25GB of pages files. I will never have 25GB of pages files. My 
Photostream doesn’t count against storage, but I don’t see anyway to put other 
photos on iCloud, so what is that extra space for?

> Would also be nice if the iWork document formats were aligned so that the 
> same document would open on both iPad and Mac…that would allow easy sync of 
> documents back and forth without having to do the download/upload sequence to 
> edit on the Mac. Of course . . .that would also keep from having a local copy 
> if it was only stored on iCloud I guess…a better solution would be to allow 
> iOS apps direct read/write to/from DropBox since it already has the 
> inter-computer sync built in.

The disconnect between iCloud and the Mac is rather peculiar.


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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Scott Anguish]

The easiest way to do this is to have a single account that buys everything 
that the kids can share.

For stuff you have now, you have to decide, rebuy, authorize from for your 
account, or let the rug rats suffer.

your Family account hierarchy is interesting, and a good idea. but I doubt it 
would happen.

Had we all known what was coming down the pipe, we’d have done a  purchase 
account since day one. Alas.


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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Scott Anguish]

On Oct 31, 2011, at 6:44 PM, LuKreme wrote:

> the +20GB upgrade is $3.33 a month, so it seems like a no brainer I’m going 
> to keep that, except I’m not sure how I would ever use that space. Putting 
> things ON iCloud right now is a little odd. The only way to upload iWork 
> documents is to go to iCloud.com, login, and then upload the files one at a 
> time, and then I am only uploading text or Pages documents
> 

I think this has changed in iOS 5.0, I just flipped some switches in Settings 
for numbers and pages. I can’t speak for unreleased apps on the desktop.

> I don’t have 25GB of pages files. I will never have 25GB of pages files. My 
> Photostream doesn’t count against storage, but I don’t see anyway to put 
> other photos on iCloud, so what is that extra space for?

Right now third party developers aren’t supporting iCloud. yet. it’s new, and 
they’re just ramping up on the development side. More Apps will need it than 
Pages and Numbers and Keynote. :-)

1Password would be an excellent option for 
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Andrew Brown]

On 14 Nov 2011, at 06:30, Scott Anguish wrote:

> Right now third party developers aren’t supporting iCloud. yet. it’s new, and 
> they’re just ramping up on the development side. More Apps will need it than 
> Pages and Numbers and Keynote. :-)
> 
> 1Password would be an excellent option for example.

Dropbox shares 1Password data rather well between machines...

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On 13 Nov 2011, at 22:21 , Scott Anguish wrote:

> Had we all known what was coming down the pipe, we’d have done a  purchase 
> account since day one. Alas.

Well, I do wish I had kept my purchase account separate from my Developer 
account.

Right now the kids had all of ’my’ apps and have their own AppleIDs, so I could 
put balances on their accounts and let them sign-out of the App Store and sign 
in and buy their own stuff, but there are so many issues with that too.

New apps won’t get pushed to their devices, I will have to login on their 
devices to update, and they can’t share apps between them.

So we muddle align with “Dad, will you buy the new Fruit Ninja Puss N Boots 
edition? It’s only $2.”

“Grmbl.”

“PLEEEASE?”

…sigh.

-- 
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On 14 Nov 2011, at 01:38 , Andrew Brown wrote:

> On 14 Nov 2011, at 06:30, Scott Anguish wrote:
> 
>> Right now third party developers aren’t supporting iCloud. yet. it’s new, 
>> and they’re just ramping up on the development side. More Apps will need it 
>> than Pages and Numbers and Keynote. :-)
>> 
>> 1Password would be an excellent option for example.
> 
> Dropbox shares 1Password data rather well between machines…

It does. Except when it doesn’t.

I have two 1Password files on Dropbox now after 1Password on my primary machine 
decided to put the password file back in its default location under~/Library.

In the process I seem to have lost a password or two.

I’m holding on tooth files until I have the time to figure out if it is 
possible to reconcile the two files easily.

I *THINK* that 

rsync -aP 1Password-342367247.agilekeychain 1Password.agilekeychain

will do it, but I have to look into it.

-- 
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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[Andrew Brown]

On 14 Nov 2011, at 16:16, LuKreme wrote:

> I’m holding on tooth files

And I'm looking for the button "Undo all the rubbish introduced by Lion"...

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Re: Apple Working on Allowing the Merging of Multiple Apple IDs

[LuKreme]

On 14 Nov 2011, at 08:16 , LuKreme wrote:
> rsync -aP 1Password-342367247.agilekeychain 1Password.agilekeychain
> 
> will do it, but I have to look into it.

That worked well, btw

-- 
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