Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-09 Thread Macs R We 
I don't know the guts of MacOS, but on machines I have worked on as a 
developer, there are often several flavors of "math library," some specific to 
computer languages, others to execution environments. I wouldn't have any 
problem believing that C code uses a different set of libraries from what the 
MacOS itself uses. And this entire kerfuffle smells like a library 
incompatibility between releases.

Eight. Keeryst.

> On Jan 9, 2020, at 2:30 PM, Carl Hoefs  wrote:
> 
> I can't get the NaN result from C code running on Mojave using the various 
> exp() function calls.
> 
> > expf: 0.367879
> > exp:  0.3678794411714423
> > expl: 0.3678794411714423216101625679907982657823595218360424041748046875
> 
> I remember that once upon a time the source code for Calculator.app was 
> available so you could modify it. It would be very telling to see how they're 
> calling exp()!
> 
> -Carl
> 
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Macs R We > > wrote:
>> 
>> Huh. I did the same experiment — copied Calculator from my Sierra Mini to my 
>> Mojave Mini and ran the sequence. As you did, I got Not a number, same as 
>> the native Calculator.
>> 
>> Then I did it again, copying it to my High Sierra MBP.
>> 
>> I got "8".   
>> 
>> No fooling. I've done it a half dozen times using different sequences of 
>> keystrokes (voodoo, to be sure, but one should make the trial).
>> 
>> Something is clearly rancid here.
>> 
>> All the responses I got back from AMUG were consistent: "Not a Number" on HS 
>> or M, the correct number everywhere else.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Carl Hoefs >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow, that would seem to indicate that a macOS system RTL or framework has a 
>>> huge bug! 
>>> 
>>> -Carl
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Andy Ringsmuth >>> > wrote:
 
 Just tried that. Still “not a number” answer.
 
 
 -Andy
 
 
> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Carl Hoefs  > wrote:
> 
> An interesting test would be to take the Calculator.app from Sierra and 
> run it on Mojave.
> 
> -Carl
> 
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:32 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 11:59, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps 
>>> they fixed it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, 
>>> so I can't check that.
>> 
>> Catalina here and both input work.
>> 
>> Jean-Christophe Helary
>> ---
>> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com 
>>  @brandelune
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list
>>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com 
>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>>   Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support
>> in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
>> http://macsrwe.com 
> 

-- 
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in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
http://macsrwe.com

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-09 Thread Macs R We 
Huh. I did the same experiment — copied Calculator from my Sierra Mini to my 
Mojave Mini and ran the sequence. As you did, I got Not a number, same as the 
native Calculator.

Then I did it again, copying it to my High Sierra MBP.

I got "8".   

No fooling. I've done it a half dozen times using different sequences of 
keystrokes (voodoo, to be sure, but one should make the trial).

Something is clearly rancid here.

All the responses I got back from AMUG were consistent: "Not a Number" on HS or 
M, the correct number everywhere else.



> On Jan 9, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Carl Hoefs  wrote:
> 
> Wow, that would seem to indicate that a macOS system RTL or framework has a 
> huge bug! 
> 
> -Carl
> 
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Andy Ringsmuth  wrote:
>> 
>> Just tried that. Still “not a number” answer.
>> 
>> 
>> -Andy
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Carl Hoefs  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> An interesting test would be to take the Calculator.app from Sierra and run 
>>> it on Mojave.
>>> 
>>> -Carl
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:32 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
  wrote:
 
> On Jan 9, 2020, at 11:59, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps they 
> fixed it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, so I 
> can't check that.
 
 Catalina here and both input work.
 
 Jean-Christophe Helary
 ---
 http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
> 
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-- 
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in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
http://macsrwe.com

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-09 Thread Carl Hoefs 
Wow, that would seem to indicate that a macOS system RTL or framework has a 
huge bug! 

-Carl


> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Andy Ringsmuth  wrote:
> 
> Just tried that. Still “not a number” answer.
> 
> 
> -Andy
> 
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Carl Hoefs  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> An interesting test would be to take the Calculator.app from Sierra and run 
>> it on Mojave.
>> 
>> -Carl
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:32 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 On Jan 9, 2020, at 11:59, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
  wrote:
 
 A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps they 
 fixed it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, so I 
 can't check that.
>>> 
>>> Catalina here and both input work.
>>> 
>>> Jean-Christophe Helary
>>> ---
>>> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-09 Thread Andy Ringsmuth 
Just tried that. Still “not a number” answer.


-Andy


> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:36 PM, Carl Hoefs  
> wrote:
> 
> An interesting test would be to take the Calculator.app from Sierra and run 
> it on Mojave.
> 
> -Carl
> 
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:32 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 11:59, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps they 
>>> fixed it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, so I can't 
>>> check that.
>> 
>> Catalina here and both input work.
>> 
>> Jean-Christophe Helary
>> ---
>> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> MacOSX-talk mailing list
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>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk
> 
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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-09 Thread Carl Hoefs 
An interesting test would be to take the Calculator.app from Sierra and run it 
on Mojave.

-Carl


> On Jan 9, 2020, at 12:32 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2020, at 11:59, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps they 
>> fixed it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, so I can't 
>> check that.
> 
> Catalina here and both input work.
> 
> Jean-Christophe Helary
> ---
> http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune
> 
> 
> ___
> MacOSX-talk mailing list
> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com
> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-09 Thread Jean-Christophe Helary 



> On Jan 9, 2020, at 11:59, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]  
> wrote:
> 
> A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps they 
> fixed it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, so I can't 
> check that.

Catalina here and both input work.

Jean-Christophe Helary
---
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Macs R We 
I'm currently crowdsourcing a trial from AMUG members. Not many answers in yet, 
but all were as expected; the one Catalina guy so far saw the numeric answer.

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 7:59 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think you are onto something.  I have now tried this on 3 macs that are 
> running Mojave and all give Not a number.  I then tried this on 3 other macs 
> that are all running Sierra and all give the correct numeric answer.  So it 
> certainly looks possible that some bug was introduced in High Sierra and 
> continued in Mojave.
> 
> A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps they 
> fixed it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, so I can't 
> check that.
> 
> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
> Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:29 PM
> To: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
> Cc: X Talk mailto:macosx-talk@omnigroup.com>>
> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
> 
> This is fascinating. 
> 
> My mid-2015 MBP on High Sierra and my Mini 2018 on Mojave both give Not a 
> Number. 
> 
> My mid-2011 Mini and 2017 MBA, both on Sierra, give a numeric answer, as do 
> both our iPhones.
> 
> So because I'm now fascinated by this bug, I rebooted my MBP onto Sierra and… 
> got a numeric answer.
> 
> It's looking a lot like a bug introduced in High Sierra. I wonder what 
> release the guy in the Apple store was running… maybe they fixed it in 
> Catalina.
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:29 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>> 
>> I guess it's sounding more like a software problem than a hardware problem...
>> 
>> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:26 PM
>> To: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
>> Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com <mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
>> mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
>> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
>> 
>> I get Not a Number using either your keystrokes or mine. This is weird.
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:23 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> My problem machine is at the office.  I'm at home now and the Calculator 
>>> app works fine on that mac.
>>> 
>>> I guess there are multiple ways to calculate exp(-1).  What I have been 
>>> doing is the following.  I open the Calculator app and set View/Scientific. 
>>>  I click on 1, then the +/- key, and then the eˣ key.  At home, the results 
>>> field shows 1, and then -1, and then 0.367879... as I click those 3 keys.  
>>> At the office, I got 1 and then -1 and then "Not a number".  As you noted, 
>>> another way to calculate exp(-1) is to click the minus sign, then 1, then 
>>> the equals sign, and then the eˣ key.  This gives the correct response at 
>>> home, but I did not try that at the office.  In any event, both should 
>>> function properly and at least one does not give the correct answer on my 
>>> iMac at the office.
>>> 
>>> Over the next day or two, I will boot my iMac at the office from an 
>>> external disk with a version of the OS for which the Calculator app works 
>>> fine when booting at home.  Hopefully this will help me figure out if it's 
>>> a hardware or software problem.
>>> 
>>> Gregg
>>> 
>>> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 7:48 PM
>>> To: C D Tavares mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
>>> Cc: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>, 
>>> "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com <mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
>>> mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
>>> 
>>> The ironic part is that I just tried the sequence myself:
>>> 
>>> -   1   =   eˣ
>>> 
>>> and got "Not a Number."
>>> 
>>> (High Sierra, MBP 2015)
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Macs R We >>> <mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On the other hand, if it's clearly your hardware, you may have a much 
>>>> easier time of wangling a free repair or replacement from Apple.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>>>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Th

Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
I think you are onto something.  I have now tried this on 3 macs that are 
running Mojave and all give Not a number.  I then tried this on 3 other macs 
that are all running Sierra and all give the correct numeric answer.  So it 
certainly looks possible that some bug was introduced in High Sierra and 
continued in Mojave.

A friend just told me that it works on his Catalina mac, so perhaps they fixed 
it in the latest OS.  I do not have any Catalina machines, so I can't check 
that.

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:29 PM
To: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
Cc: X Talk mailto:macosx-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

This is fascinating.

My mid-2015 MBP on High Sierra and my Mini 2018 on Mojave both give Not a 
Number.

My mid-2011 Mini and 2017 MBA, both on Sierra, give a numeric answer, as do 
both our iPhones.

So because I'm now fascinated by this bug, I rebooted my MBP onto Sierra and… 
got a numeric answer.

It's looking a lot like a bug introduced in High Sierra. I wonder what release 
the guy in the Apple store was running… maybe they fixed it in Catalina.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:29 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:

I guess it's sounding more like a software problem than a hardware problem...

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:26 PM
To: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

I get Not a Number using either your keystrokes or mine. This is weird.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:23 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:

My problem machine is at the office.  I'm at home now and the Calculator app 
works fine on that mac.

I guess there are multiple ways to calculate exp(-1).  What I have been doing 
is the following.  I open the Calculator app and set View/Scientific.  I click 
on 1, then the +/- key, and then the eˣ key.  At home, the results field shows 
1, and then -1, and then 0.367879... as I click those 3 keys.  At the office, I 
got 1 and then -1 and then "Not a number".  As you noted, another way to 
calculate exp(-1) is to click the minus sign, then 1, then the equals sign, and 
then the eˣ key.  This gives the correct response at home, but I did not try 
that at the office.  In any event, both should function properly and at least 
one does not give the correct answer on my iMac at the office.

Over the next day or two, I will boot my iMac at the office from an external 
disk with a version of the OS for which the Calculator app works fine when 
booting at home.  Hopefully this will help me figure out if it's a hardware or 
software problem.

Gregg

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 7:48 PM
To: C D Tavares mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Cc: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>, 
"MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

The ironic part is that I just tried the sequence myself:

-   1   =   eˣ

and got "Not a Number."

(High Sierra, MBP 2015)


On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Macs R We 
mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>> wrote:

On the other hand, if it's clearly your hardware, you may have a much easier 
time of wangling a free repair or replacement from Apple.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion.  I should be able to do this, but probably not 
today.  I never even thought about the hardware being the problem.  That is 
upsetting.

Gregg

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 at 3:40 PM
To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a response 
directly from the hardware.

If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could boot one 
of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that you will get 
this result no matter which operating system you boot on that hardware, whereas 
if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac with it, you may get 
proper results. That would pretty definitively show that the problem is your 
chip.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
Hi,

I am running the latest version o

Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Macs R We 
This is fascinating. 

My mid-2015 MBP on High Sierra and my Mini 2018 on Mojave both give Not a 
Number. 

My mid-2011 Mini and 2017 MBA, both on Sierra, give a numeric answer, as do 
both our iPhones.

So because I'm now fascinated by this bug, I rebooted my MBP onto Sierra and… 
got a numeric answer.

It's looking a lot like a bug introduced in High Sierra. I wonder what release 
the guy in the Apple store was running… maybe they fixed it in Catalina.

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:29 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> I guess it's sounding more like a software problem than a hardware problem...
> 
> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
> Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:26 PM
> To: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
> Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com <mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
> mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
> 
> I get Not a Number using either your keystrokes or mine. This is weird.
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:23 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>> 
>> My problem machine is at the office.  I'm at home now and the Calculator app 
>> works fine on that mac.
>> 
>> I guess there are multiple ways to calculate exp(-1).  What I have been 
>> doing is the following.  I open the Calculator app and set View/Scientific.  
>> I click on 1, then the +/- key, and then the eˣ key.  At home, the results 
>> field shows 1, and then -1, and then 0.367879... as I click those 3 keys.  
>> At the office, I got 1 and then -1 and then "Not a number".  As you noted, 
>> another way to calculate exp(-1) is to click the minus sign, then 1, then 
>> the equals sign, and then the eˣ key.  This gives the correct response at 
>> home, but I did not try that at the office.  In any event, both should 
>> function properly and at least one does not give the correct answer on my 
>> iMac at the office.
>> 
>> Over the next day or two, I will boot my iMac at the office from an external 
>> disk with a version of the OS for which the Calculator app works fine when 
>> booting at home.  Hopefully this will help me figure out if it's a hardware 
>> or software problem.
>> 
>> Gregg
>> 
>> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 7:48 PM
>> To: C D Tavares mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
>> Cc: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>, 
>> "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com <mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
>> mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
>> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
>> 
>> The ironic part is that I just tried the sequence myself:
>> 
>> -   1   =   eˣ
>> 
>> and got "Not a Number."
>> 
>> (High Sierra, MBP 2015)
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Macs R We >> <mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, if it's clearly your hardware, you may have a much 
>>> easier time of wangling a free repair or replacement from Apple.
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the suggestion.  I should be able to do this, but probably not 
>>>> today.  I never even thought about the hardware being the problem.  That 
>>>> is upsetting.
>>>>  
>>>> Gregg
>>>>  
>>>> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 at 3:40 PM
>>>> To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" >>> <mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
>>>> Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com <mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
>>>> mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
>>>> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
>>>>  
>>>> What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a 
>>>> response directly from the hardware.
>>>>  
>>>> If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
>>>> relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could 
>>>> boot one of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that 
>>>> you will get this result no matter which operating system you boot on that 
>>>> hardware, whereas if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac 
>>>> with it, you may get proper results. That would

Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
I guess it's sounding more like a software problem than a hardware problem...

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:26 PM
To: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

I get Not a Number using either your keystrokes or mine. This is weird.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:23 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:

My problem machine is at the office.  I'm at home now and the Calculator app 
works fine on that mac.

I guess there are multiple ways to calculate exp(-1).  What I have been doing 
is the following.  I open the Calculator app and set View/Scientific.  I click 
on 1, then the +/- key, and then the eˣ key.  At home, the results field shows 
1, and then -1, and then 0.367879... as I click those 3 keys.  At the office, I 
got 1 and then -1 and then "Not a number".  As you noted, another way to 
calculate exp(-1) is to click the minus sign, then 1, then the equals sign, and 
then the eˣ key.  This gives the correct response at home, but I did not try 
that at the office.  In any event, both should function properly and at least 
one does not give the correct answer on my iMac at the office.

Over the next day or two, I will boot my iMac at the office from an external 
disk with a version of the OS for which the Calculator app works fine when 
booting at home.  Hopefully this will help me figure out if it's a hardware or 
software problem.

Gregg

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 7:48 PM
To: C D Tavares mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Cc: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>, 
"MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

The ironic part is that I just tried the sequence myself:

-   1   =   eˣ

and got "Not a Number."

(High Sierra, MBP 2015)


On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Macs R We 
mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>> wrote:

On the other hand, if it's clearly your hardware, you may have a much easier 
time of wangling a free repair or replacement from Apple.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion.  I should be able to do this, but probably not 
today.  I never even thought about the hardware being the problem.  That is 
upsetting.

Gregg

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 at 3:40 PM
To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a response 
directly from the hardware.

If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could boot one 
of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that you will get 
this result no matter which operating system you boot on that hardware, whereas 
if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac with it, you may get 
proper results. That would pretty definitively show that the problem is your 
chip.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
Hi,

I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate exp(-1) 
and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values and none 
worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 10 to the -1 
power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it has a problem 
raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative power.

I tried quitting the app, but that did not help.  I tried rebooting my mac, but 
that did not help.  I contacted our support group and they said the only thing 
they could do is to reinstall the operating system, which seems like a drastic 
step.  And exp(-1) worked just fine on the support person's mac.

Is there anything else that someone can suggest, short of reinstalling the OS?  
The support person said that we could not simply replace the Calculator app 
because it was part of the OS.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Gregg

--
  Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support
in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
http://macsrwe.com<http://macsrwe.com/>


--
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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
My problem machine is at the office.  I'm at home now and the Calculator app 
works fine on that mac.

I guess there are multiple ways to calculate exp(-1).  What I have been doing 
is the following.  I open the Calculator app and set View/Scientific.  I click 
on 1, then the +/- key, and then the eˣ key.  At home, the results field shows 
1, and then -1, and then 0.367879... as I click those 3 keys.  At the office, I 
got 1 and then -1 and then "Not a number".  As you noted, another way to 
calculate exp(-1) is to click the minus sign, then 1, then the equals sign, and 
then the eˣ key.  This gives the correct response at home, but I did not try 
that at the office.  In any event, both should function properly and at least 
one does not give the correct answer on my iMac at the office.

Over the next day or two, I will boot my iMac at the office from an external 
disk with a version of the OS for which the Calculator app works fine when 
booting at home.  Hopefully this will help me figure out if it's a hardware or 
software problem.

Gregg

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 7:48 PM
To: C D Tavares mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Cc: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>, 
"MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

The ironic part is that I just tried the sequence myself:

-   1   =   eˣ

and got "Not a Number."

(High Sierra, MBP 2015)


On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Macs R We 
mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>> wrote:

On the other hand, if it's clearly your hardware, you may have a much easier 
time of wangling a free repair or replacement from Apple.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion.  I should be able to do this, but probably not 
today.  I never even thought about the hardware being the problem.  That is 
upsetting.

Gregg

From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
Date: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 at 3:40 PM
To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com<mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a response 
directly from the hardware.

If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could boot one 
of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that you will get 
this result no matter which operating system you boot on that hardware, whereas 
if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac with it, you may get 
proper results. That would pretty definitively show that the problem is your 
chip.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
Hi,

I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate exp(-1) 
and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values and none 
worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 10 to the -1 
power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it has a problem 
raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative power.

I tried quitting the app, but that did not help.  I tried rebooting my mac, but 
that did not help.  I contacted our support group and they said the only thing 
they could do is to reinstall the operating system, which seems like a drastic 
step.  And exp(-1) worked just fine on the support person's mac.

Is there anything else that someone can suggest, short of reinstalling the OS?  
The support person said that we could not simply replace the Calculator app 
because it was part of the OS.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Gregg

--
  Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support
in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
http://macsrwe.com

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Macs R We 
I get Not a Number using either your keystrokes or mine. This is weird.

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 6:23 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> My problem machine is at the office.  I'm at home now and the Calculator app 
> works fine on that mac.
> 
> I guess there are multiple ways to calculate exp(-1).  What I have been doing 
> is the following.  I open the Calculator app and set View/Scientific.  I 
> click on 1, then the +/- key, and then the eˣ key.  At home, the results 
> field shows 1, and then -1, and then 0.367879... as I click those 3 keys.  At 
> the office, I got 1 and then -1 and then "Not a number".  As you noted, 
> another way to calculate exp(-1) is to click the minus sign, then 1, then the 
> equals sign, and then the eˣ key.  This gives the correct response at home, 
> but I did not try that at the office.  In any event, both should function 
> properly and at least one does not give the correct answer on my iMac at the 
> office.
> 
> Over the next day or two, I will boot my iMac at the office from an external 
> disk with a version of the OS for which the Calculator app works fine when 
> booting at home.  Hopefully this will help me figure out if it's a hardware 
> or software problem.
> 
> Gregg
> 
> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
> Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 7:48 PM
> To: C D Tavares mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
> Cc: Gregg Dinse mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>, 
> "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com <mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
> mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
> 
> The ironic part is that I just tried the sequence myself:
> 
> -   1   =   eˣ
> 
> and got "Not a Number."
> 
> (High Sierra, MBP 2015)
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Macs R We > <mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> On the other hand, if it's clearly your hardware, you may have a much easier 
>> time of wangling a free repair or replacement from Apple.
>> 
>>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the suggestion.  I should be able to do this, but probably not 
>>> today.  I never even thought about the hardware being the problem.  That is 
>>> upsetting.
>>>  
>>> Gregg
>>>  
>>> From: Macs R We mailto:macs...@macsrwe.com>>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 at 3:40 PM
>>> To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" >> <mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>>
>>> Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com <mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>" 
>>> mailto:MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
>>>  
>>> What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a 
>>> response directly from the hardware.
>>>  
>>> If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
>>> relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could boot 
>>> one of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that you will 
>>> get this result no matter which operating system you boot on that hardware, 
>>> whereas if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac with it, you 
>>> may get proper results. That would pretty definitively show that the 
>>> problem is your chip.
>>>  
>>>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>>> mailto:di...@niehs.nih.gov>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>>  
>>>> I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
>>>> Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate 
>>>> exp(-1) and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values 
>>>> and none worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 
>>>> 10 to the -1 power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it 
>>>> has a problem raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative 
>>>> power.
>>>>  
>>>> I tried quitting the app, but that did not help.  I tried rebooting my 
>>>> mac, but that did not help.  I contacted our support group and they said 
>>>> the only thing they could do is to reinstall the operating system, which 
>>>> seems like a drastic step.  And exp(-1) worked just fine on the support 
>>>> person's mac.
>>>>  
>>>> Is there anything else that someone can suggest, short of reinstalling the 
>>>> OS?  The support person said that we could not simply replace the 
>>>> Calculator app because it was part of the OS.  Any thoughts?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>  
>>>> Gregg
> 
> -- 
>   Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support
> in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
> http://macsrwe.com <http://macsrwe.com/>

-- 
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in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
http://macsrwe.com

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Jean-Christophe Helary 



> On Jan 9, 2020, at 9:04, Macs R We  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2020, at 4:54 PM, George N. White III  wrote:
>>> I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
>>> Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate 
>>> exp(-1) and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values 
>>> and none worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 10 
>>> to the -1 power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it has 
>>> a problem raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative power.
>>> 
>> I've encountered similar issues when the "minus" sign was some Unicode 
>> "dash" supplied by an overly helpful editor like MacOS textedit.  Living in 
>> Canada, I have found that systems sometimes produce the look-alike 
>> characters when trying to write in the French language.   
> 
> Great catch.  Check your Keyboard preference panel for unexpected key 
> translations.

And also try by just clicking on the keys "1" "x/-" "ex" to see if the correct 
result is output.


Jean-Christophe Helary
---
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Macs R We 

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 4:54 PM, George N. White III  wrote:
>> I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
>> Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate exp(-1) 
>> and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values and none 
>> worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 10 to the -1 
>> power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it has a problem 
>> raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative power.
>> 
> 
> I've encountered similar issues when the "minus" sign was some Unicode "dash" 
> supplied by an overly helpful editor like MacOS textedit.  Living in Canada, 
> I have found that systems sometimes produce the look-alike characters when 
> trying to write in the French language.   

Great catch.  Check your Keyboard preference panel for unexpected key 
translations.

-- 
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in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas.
http://macsrwe.com

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Neil Laubenthal 
You might try coping the app from another working machine after deleting it 
from the one that doesn’t work…or my real suggestion is just to buy a copy of 
PCalc.

Or even LaunchBar…it will do quick calculations for you when it pops up as will 
that other similar launcher that I can’t remember the name of right now.


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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Macs R We 
On the other hand, if it's clearly your hardware, you may have a much easier 
time of wangling a free repair or replacement from Apple.

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 1:45 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.  I should be able to do this, but probably not 
> today.  I never even thought about the hardware being the problem.  That is 
> upsetting.
>  
> Gregg
>  
> From: Macs R We 
> Date: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 at 3:40 PM
> To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" 
> Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com" 
> Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app
>  
> What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a 
> response directly from the hardware.
>  
> If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
> relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could boot 
> one of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that you will 
> get this result no matter which operating system you boot on that hardware, 
> whereas if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac with it, you 
> may get proper results. That would pretty definitively show that the problem 
> is your chip.
>  
> On Jan 8, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>  
> I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
> Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate exp(-1) 
> and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values and none 
> worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 10 to the -1 
> power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it has a problem 
> raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative power.
>  
> I tried quitting the app, but that did not help.  I tried rebooting my mac, 
> but that did not help.  I contacted our support group and they said the only 
> thing they could do is to reinstall the operating system, which seems like a 
> drastic step.  And exp(-1) worked just fine on the support person's mac.
>  
> Is there anything else that someone can suggest, short of reinstalling the 
> OS?  The support person said that we could not simply replace the Calculator 
> app because it was part of the OS.  Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
>  
> Gregg
>  
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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
Thanks for the suggestion.  I should be able to do this, but probably not 
today.  I never even thought about the hardware being the problem.  That is 
upsetting.

Gregg

From: Macs R We 
Date: Wednesday, January 08, 2020 at 3:40 PM
To: "Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]" 
Cc: "MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com" 
Subject: Re: problem with Calculator app

What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a response 
directly from the hardware.

If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could boot one 
of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that you will get 
this result no matter which operating system you boot on that hardware, whereas 
if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac with it, you may get 
proper results. That would pretty definitively show that the problem is your 
chip.

On Jan 8, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]  
wrote:
Hi,

I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate exp(-1) 
and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values and none 
worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 10 to the -1 
power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it has a problem 
raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative power.

I tried quitting the app, but that did not help.  I tried rebooting my mac, but 
that did not help.  I contacted our support group and they said the only thing 
they could do is to reinstall the operating system, which seems like a drastic 
step.  And exp(-1) worked just fine on the support person's mac.

Is there anything else that someone can suggest, short of reinstalling the OS?  
The support person said that we could not simply replace the Calculator app 
because it was part of the OS.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Gregg

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Re: problem with Calculator app

2020-01-08 Thread Macs R We 
What's scary about this is that the response "not a number" is often a response 
directly from the hardware.

If, like me, you are lucky enough to have on hand an external drive with 
relatively virgin copies of various Apple operating systems, you could boot one 
of them and see if you get the same result. It's possible that you will get 
this result no matter which operating system you boot on that hardware, whereas 
if you take the same drive and boot someone else's Mac with it, you may get 
proper results. That would pretty definitively show that the problem is your 
chip.

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
>  
> I am running the latest version of Mojave (10.14.6) on a fairly new iMac.  
> Using the Scientific view in the Calculator app, I tried to evaluate exp(-1) 
> and it said "Not a number".  I tried several other negative values and none 
> worked, even though they certainly should.  When I tried taking 10 to the -1 
> power, I got the correct result (0.1), but for some reason it has a problem 
> raising "e" (the base for natural logarithms) to a negative power.
>  
> I tried quitting the app, but that did not help.  I tried rebooting my mac, 
> but that did not help.  I contacted our support group and they said the only 
> thing they could do is to reinstall the operating system, which seems like a 
> drastic step.  And exp(-1) worked just fine on the support person's mac.
>  
> Is there anything else that someone can suggest, short of reinstalling the 
> OS?  The support person said that we could not simply replace the Calculator 
> app because it was part of the OS.  Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
>  
> Gregg
>  
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