Re: MacPorts-MySQL Dictator wanted, prefer benevolent
At 3:07 PM -0500 9/30/14, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
On Sep 30, 2014, at 10:37 AM, Craig Treleaven wrote:
By way of background, my MythTV ports depend on p5.16-dbd-mysql,
py27-mysql and php-5-mysql. Previously, all of these defaulted to
the now-obsolete mysql5 variant. Now, py-mysql defaults to
mariadb55. p516-dbd-mysql offers a mariadb variant; not
mariadb55. php5-mysql defaults to mysqlind (MySQL native
driver) and offers a mariadb variant; again not mariadb55.
p5.16-dbd-mysql still defaults to mysql5.
The subtle variance in naming the variants creates confusion. The
range of defaults can lead to bloat and confusion.
Initially, I found there was a ticket related to py-mysql database
variants [1] and I filed additional tickets for php5-mysql [2] and
p5-dbd-mysql [3]. Since then, I thought to search for other ports
that offer variants related to MySQL ('port echo
variant:mysql*')--a total of 89 ports, of which about 20 are
subports.
I've refined my list a little and I've found 83 ports that offer
variants related to MySQL-compatible databases, see attached pdf.
The chart lists all the current variant names; a 1 indicates that a
particular port offers that a variant with that name.
The tickets have been open for 6 weeks or more with no movement.
I've started to do some analysis on this (with another thread asking
for help) to see if we can standardize on a list of MySQL-related
variant names and maybe even agree on a common default.
That's where the dictator comes in. At the moment, I would say
the obvious choices for a default MySQL variant would be mysql55,
mariadb55 or, maybe, mysql56. AFAICT there is no clear-cut,
compelling reason to choose one over the others (technical, legal,
religious, whatever). Other threads have touched on this issue,
recently, with no clear consensus developed. Nonetheless, I think
the MacPorts project would be better served by blessing one that
can hold us for a few years rather than have various ports going in
all different directions.
Is this something that the PortMgr group could take the lead on?
Indeed we have discussed this before, and it was proposed that the
latest stable MariaDB version should be the default variant of ports
that have MySQL support.
I don't think we can or should select a default to last us for
years. We don't want to stagnate like we did with the +mysql5
variant. Rather, we should let the latest stable version be the
default, and update ports as needed.
Currently, the latest stable version of MariaDB is 10.0.
Really? Has MariaDB 10.0 really been sufficiently exercised in the
OS X environment to become the default? Currently, not a single port
that I've identified even offers mariadb-10.0 as a variant. Only 4
ports in my list currently default to mariadb or mariadb55:
PortDefault Variant
akonadi mariadb55
amarok mariadb55
py24-mysql mariadb55
py25-mysql mariadb55
py26-mysql mariadb55
py27-mysql mariadb55
qore-mysql-module mariadb
The question is what to name the variants. This has also been
brought up for discussion before. My most recent thread on the topic
from 2 weeks ago got no replies on the list; perhaps I was too wordy.
My suggestion was that using dots in version numbers, but no
underscores, would be the cleanest and most informative, which would
make the complete list of proposed MySQL variant today: +mariadb5.5,
+mariadb10.0, +mariadb10.1, +mysql5.1, +mysql5.5, +mysql5.6, and
+percona5.6.
Adopting this format means renaming every variant of every affected port.
This may also break the upgrade path for existing installs, no? We
really should keep legacy-named variants for a period of time along
with the new standard which leads to an explosion of variants for
some ports. For example, apr-util currently has mariadb, mysql5,
mysql51, mysql55, mysql56, and percona variants related to db
selection. We'd have to keep those 6 and add at least 6 more (maybe
8 if maridb10.0 and mariadb10.1 are supported).
Perhaps we* could control the explosion of variants by creating a new
Portfile contruct: legacy-variant. It might act just like the
current variant declaration except that it would be invisible to
'port info' and 'port variants'. Users wouldn't normally see the
legacy-variants thus reducing the temptation to keep using them. If
necessary, perhaps they could be displayed by passing the -v or -d
flags to port.
Craig
* By we, I mean someone more clever than me!
MacPorts_MySQL_Variants_2014Oct1.xlsx.pdf
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Re: MacPorts-MySQL Dictator wanted, prefer benevolent
On Oct 1, 2014, at 6:45 AM, Craig Treleaven ctrelea...@macports.org wrote:
At 3:07 PM -0500 9/30/14, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
Currently, the latest stable version of MariaDB is 10.0.
Really?
Yes, in that MariaDB 10.0 is the latest release version.
Has MariaDB 10.0 really been sufficiently exercised in the
OS X environment to become the default? Currently, not a single port
that I've identified even offers mariadb-10.0 as a variant. Only 4
ports in my list currently default to mariadb or mariadb55:
PortDefault Variant
akonadi mariadb55
amarok mariadb55
py24-mysql mariadb55
py25-mysql mariadb55
py26-mysql mariadb55
py27-mysql mariadb55
qore-mysql-module mariadb
As soon as the variant naming is settled there will be mariadb-10.{0,1}
variants.
The question is what to name the variants. This has also been
brought up for discussion before. My most recent thread on the topic
from 2 weeks ago got no replies on the list; perhaps I was too wordy.
My suggestion was that using dots in version numbers, but no
underscores, would be the cleanest and most informative, which would
make the complete list of proposed MySQL variant today: +mariadb5.5,
+mariadb10.0, +mariadb10.1, +mysql5.1, +mysql5.5, +mysql5.6, and
+percona5.6.
Adopting this format means renaming every variant of every affected port.
This may also break the upgrade path for existing installs, no? We
really should keep legacy-named variants for a period of time along
with the new standard which leads to an explosion of variants for
some ports.
I think it is common to add something like this for a time (1 year):
if [variant_isset ${legacy-variant}] {
default_variants-append +${replacement-variant}
}
For example, apr-util currently has mariadb, mysql5,
mysql51, mysql55, mysql56, and percona variants related to db
selection. We'd have to keep those 6 and add at least 6 more (maybe
8 if maridb10.0 and mariadb10.1 are supported).
Similar to recent discussions regarding removing old versions of perl and
python, we should consider removing/replacing older versions of mysql like
mysql4 and mysql5 and probably mysql51.
I believe it would be an improvement if we settled on these ports for now and
removed/replace all others:
mariadb-5.5 // MariaDB has long term support contract with Redhat for this 5.5
mariadb-10.0 // Newest stable release
mariadb-10.1 // Alpha release
mysql-5.5
mysql-5.6 // Generally Available (GA) Release
mysql-5.7 // Development Release
percona-5.5
percona-5.6
https://downloads.mariadb.org/mariadb/+releases/
http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/
http://www.percona.com/downloads/
Regards,
Bradley Giesbrecht (pixilla)
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MacPorts-MySQL Dictator wanted, prefer benevolent
By way of background, my MythTV ports depend on p5.16-dbd-mysql,
py27-mysql and php-5-mysql. Previously, all of these defaulted to
the now-obsolete mysql5 variant. Now, py-mysql defaults to
mariadb55. p516-dbd-mysql offers a mariadb variant; not
mariadb55. php5-mysql defaults to mysqlind (MySQL native driver)
and offers a mariadb variant; again not mariadb55.
p5.16-dbd-mysql still defaults to mysql5.
The subtle variance in naming the variants creates confusion. The
range of defaults can lead to bloat and confusion.
Initially, I found there was a ticket related to py-mysql database
variants [1] and I filed additional tickets for php5-mysql [2] and
p5-dbd-mysql [3]. Since then, I thought to search for other ports
that offer variants related to MySQL ('port echo variant:mysql*')--a
total of 89 ports, of which about 20 are subports.
[1] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/39068
[2] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/44481
[3] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/44484
The tickets have been open for 6 weeks or more with no movement.
I've started to do some analysis on this (with another thread asking
for help) to see if we can standardize on a list of MySQL-related
variant names and maybe even agree on a common default.
That's where the dictator comes in. At the moment, I would say the
obvious choices for a default MySQL variant would be mysql55,
mariadb55 or, maybe, mysql56. AFAICT there is no clear-cut,
compelling reason to choose one over the others (technical, legal,
religious, whatever). Other threads have touched on this issue,
recently, with no clear consensus developed. Nonetheless, I think
the MacPorts project would be better served by blessing one that can
hold us for a few years rather than have various ports going in all
different directions.
Is this something that the PortMgr group could take the lead on?
Craig
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Re: MacPorts-MySQL Dictator wanted, prefer benevolent
On Sep 30, 2014, at 10:37 AM, Craig Treleaven wrote:
By way of background, my MythTV ports depend on p5.16-dbd-mysql, py27-mysql
and php-5-mysql. Previously, all of these defaulted to the now-obsolete
mysql5 variant. Now, py-mysql defaults to mariadb55. p516-dbd-mysql offers
a mariadb variant; not mariadb55. php5-mysql defaults to mysqlind
(MySQL native driver) and offers a mariadb variant; again not
mariadb55. p5.16-dbd-mysql still defaults to mysql5.
The subtle variance in naming the variants creates confusion. The range of
defaults can lead to bloat and confusion.
Initially, I found there was a ticket related to py-mysql database variants
[1] and I filed additional tickets for php5-mysql [2] and p5-dbd-mysql [3].
Since then, I thought to search for other ports that offer variants related
to MySQL ('port echo variant:mysql*')--a total of 89 ports, of which about 20
are subports.
[1] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/39068
[2] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/44481
[3] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/44484
The tickets have been open for 6 weeks or more with no movement. I've started
to do some analysis on this (with another thread asking for help) to see if
we can standardize on a list of MySQL-related variant names and maybe even
agree on a common default.
That's where the dictator comes in. At the moment, I would say the obvious
choices for a default MySQL variant would be mysql55, mariadb55 or, maybe,
mysql56. AFAICT there is no clear-cut, compelling reason to choose one over
the others (technical, legal, religious, whatever). Other threads have
touched on this issue, recently, with no clear consensus developed.
Nonetheless, I think the MacPorts project would be better served by blessing
one that can hold us for a few years rather than have various ports going in
all different directions.
Is this something that the PortMgr group could take the lead on?
Indeed we have discussed this before, and it was proposed that the latest
stable MariaDB version should be the default variant of ports that have MySQL
support.
I don't think we can or should select a default to last us for years. We don't
want to stagnate like we did with the +mysql5 variant. Rather, we should let
the latest stable version be the default, and update ports as needed.
Currently, the latest stable version of MariaDB is 10.0.
The question is what to name the variants. This has also been brought up for
discussion before. My most recent thread on the topic from 2 weeks ago got no
replies on the list; perhaps I was too wordy.
My suggestion was that using dots in version numbers, but no underscores, would
be the cleanest and most informative, which would make the complete list of
proposed MySQL variant today: +mariadb5.5, +mariadb10.0, +mariadb10.1,
+mysql5.1, +mysql5.5, +mysql5.6, and +percona5.6.
Currently, port lint says that a dot is not a valid character in a variant
name, but I suspect lint is just being overly cautious, and perhaps someone
with a little time could do some tests and see if variant names containing dots
do in fact work correctly.
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Re: MacPorts-MySQL Dictator wanted, prefer benevolent
On Sep 30, 2014, at 8:37 AM, Craig Treleaven ctrelea...@macports.org wrote:
By way of background, my MythTV ports depend on p5.16-dbd-mysql, py27-mysql
and php-5-mysql. Previously, all of these defaulted to the now-obsolete
mysql5 variant. Now, py-mysql defaults to mariadb55. p516-dbd-mysql offers
a mariadb variant; not mariadb55. php5-mysql defaults to mysqlind
(MySQL native driver) and offers a mariadb variant; again not
mariadb55. p5.16-dbd-mysql still defaults to mysql5.
The subtle variance in naming the variants creates confusion. The range of
defaults can lead to bloat and confusion.
Initially, I found there was a ticket related to py-mysql database variants
[1] and I filed additional tickets for php5-mysql [2] and p5-dbd-mysql [3].
Since then, I thought to search for other ports that offer variants related
to MySQL ('port echo variant:mysql*')--a total of 89 ports, of which about 20
are subports.
[1] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/39068
[2] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/44481
[3] https://trac.macports.org/ticket/44484
The tickets have been open for 6 weeks or more with no movement. I've started
to do some analysis on this (with another thread asking for help) to see if
we can standardize on a list of MySQL-related variant names and maybe even
agree on a common default.
That's where the dictator comes in. At the moment, I would say the obvious
choices for a default MySQL variant would be mysql55, mariadb55 or, maybe,
mysql56. AFAICT there is no clear-cut, compelling reason to choose one over
the others (technical, legal, religious, whatever).
Momentum appears to be on the side of MariaDB
MariaDB 10.0 is the current release branch and is tracked by the mariadb-10.0
port.
Regards,
Bradley Giesbrecht (pixilla)
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Re: MacPorts-MySQL Dictator wanted, prefer benevolent
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Bradley Giesbrecht pixi...@macports.org wrote: That's where the dictator comes in. At the moment, I would say the obvious choices for a default MySQL variant would be mysql55, mariadb55 or, maybe, mysql56. AFAICT there is no clear-cut, compelling reason to choose one over the others (technical, legal, religious, whatever). Momentum appears to be on the side of MariaDB Agreed. In particular, most Linux distributions have adopted MariaDB as their standard. (No doubt to the annoyance of the Percona adherents) -- brandon s allbery kf8nh sine nomine associates allber...@gmail.com ballb...@sinenomine.net unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonadhttp://sinenomine.net ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
