RE: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Simon Fogarty]

Sorrylist but I think I missed something here,

  So are you saying that the USA's FBI deleted the iCloud backup for the 
terrorists?



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sabahattin Gucukoglu
Sent: Tuesday, 23 February 2016 9:06 AM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

Yep, it later emerged that the FBI, through malice or incompetence, reset the 
account password and thus prevented those all-important (but incomplete) iCloud 
backups from occurring.  (Notice that iCloud backups are another way in, which 
is something many customers aren’t aware of.)

And I don’t blame you one bit for distrusting the FBI.  This is the government 
that gave birth to “National Security Letters”.  The fact that these clowns are 
pushing for even more power, even though it would be limited to after-the-fact 
exams, probably says that they aren’t finished grasping, and not by a long 
shot.  Certainly off-worlders can forget any legal protections that you might 
get as a result of all this, particularly while passing through your delightful 
TSL checkpoints.  I can just imagine it, being asked for my phone so they can 
take an image for later cryptanalysis, because I “Look foreign".  Ugh.

But, alas, we’re still in the precarious situation that even if the court’s 
decision is somehow overturned, we now know something rather uncomfortable 
about iOS security.  Apple just painted a great big “Hack me!” sign on its 
gigantic half-eaten Apple logo.  I side with Apple insofar as I believe we’re 
entitled to security, but there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of being able 
to trust the technology while it’s in such close proximity to the powers that 
be(TM), much less all the h4x3rz who will be trying their damned best to obtain 
the golden keys and make life miserable for the 99%.  And don’t forget that 
some of these actors will be well-funded, and under the control of other, less 
well-adjusted governments.  Ironic, given the message Apple is sending about 
the importance of security.  If they know they’re a weak link, they’re not 
exactly eager to tell the world. :)

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Re: trillion for mac version 3.4 built 5

[jaan ali]

Try to change it again and this time from a  different browser

Sent from my iPhone

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> On 23-Feb-2016, at 1:54 AM, jaan ali  wrote:
> 
> O its ok
> No problim☺️ 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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>> On 23-Feb-2016, at 1:53 AM, Jason Shaw  wrote:
>> 
>> i'm sorry about those messages my account was hacked. i changed my
>> password but somebody is still sending messages to all the lists i'm
>> on, how are they using my account if i changed my password. can
>> someone please help!
>> 
>>> On 2/23/16, Jaan Ali  wrote:
>>> sorry but this message was not for you, it was for jason
>>> kindly read the last messages of the trillion topic and you will get the
>>> idea
>>> 
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Re: trillion for mac version 3.4 built 5

[jaan ali]

O its ok
No problim☺️ 


Sent from my iPhone

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> On 23-Feb-2016, at 1:53 AM, Jason Shaw  wrote:
> 
> i'm sorry about those messages my account was hacked. i changed my
> password but somebody is still sending messages to all the lists i'm
> on, how are they using my account if i changed my password. can
> someone please help!
> 
>> On 2/23/16, Jaan Ali  wrote:
>> sorry but this message was not for you, it was for jason
>> kindly read the last messages of the trillion topic and you will get the
>> idea
>> 
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Re: trillion for mac version 3.4 built 5

[Jason Shaw]

i'm sorry about those messages my account was hacked. i changed my
password but somebody is still sending messages to all the lists i'm
on, how are they using my account if i changed my password. can
someone please help!

On 2/23/16, Jaan Ali  wrote:
> sorry but this message was not for you, it was for jason
> kindly read the last messages of the trillion topic and you will get the
> idea
>
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Re: trillion for mac version 3.4 built 5

[Jaan Ali]

sorry but this message was not for you, it was for jason
kindly read the last messages of the trillion topic and you will get the idea 

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Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Dora Speck]

Oh,, kay then?

Dora Speck

[Sent from my iPhone]

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 10:19 PM, Jason Shaw  wrote:
> 
> vsdvdsvsd
> 
>> On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
>> Ok cool.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>> 
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 DISCLAIMER:
 "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
 protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
 the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
 distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
 strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
 received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
 above address and delete the email."
 
 On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss > wrote:
 
> Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
> "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
> save attachment option is dimmed.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
>> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
>> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
>> without any problim
>> i think it is 3.2
>> but it is working like a charm
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
 wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
 .
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 
 Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
 
 Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
 and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
 the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
 line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
 On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS > wrote:
 
> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
> Handle: 
> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
> 

Re: trillion for mac version 3.4 built 5

[Jaan Ali]

do not show your class on the list
> On Feb 23, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Jason Shaw  wrote:
> 
> learn to use fucking punctuation you little dibshit
> 
> On 2/23/2016 6:14 AM, Jaan Ali wrote:
>> hi download the new version of trillion it is the beta 5 thats why its
>> not on mac store, i got it from trillion’s webside it came on 18 feb
>> 2016 and working great with voiceover below is the link for download
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/75yimmphe5x9tdr/Trillian.app.zip?dl=0
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Dora Speck]

What's that, Jason?

Dora Speck

[Sent from my iPhone]

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 10:20 PM, Jason Shaw  wrote:
> 
> qwegdsaadsf
> 
>> On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
>> Ok cool.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>> 
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 DISCLAIMER:
 "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
 protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
 the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
 distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
 strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
 received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
 above address and delete the email."
 
 On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss > wrote:
 
> Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
> "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
> save attachment option is dimmed.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
>> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
>> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
>> without any problim
>> i think it is 3.2
>> but it is working like a charm
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
 wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
 .
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 
 Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
 
 Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
 and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
 the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
 line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
 On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS > wrote:
 
> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
> Handle: 
> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
> 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jason Shaw]

qwegdsaadsf

On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>> above address and delete the email."
>>
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>>
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>>
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
 save attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:

>
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
> without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
>
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>> > wrote:
>>
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>>
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
>>> wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>>
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
>>> and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
>>> the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
>>> line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>>
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.


 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
 Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jason Shaw]

wqerdfsvs

On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>> above address and delete the email."
>>
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>>
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>>
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
 save attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:

>
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
> without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
>
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>> > wrote:
>>
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>>
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
>>> wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>>
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
>>> and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
>>> the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
>>> line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>>
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.


 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
 Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jason Shaw]

asfd

On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>> above address and delete the email."
>>
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>>
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>>
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
 save attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:

>
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
> without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
>
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>> > wrote:
>>
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>>
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
>>> wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>>
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
>>> and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
>>> the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
>>> line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>>
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.


 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
 Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jason Shaw]

vsdvdsvsd

On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>> above address and delete the email."
>>
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>>
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>>
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
 save attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:

>
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
> without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
>
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>> > wrote:
>>
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>>
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
>>> wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>>
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
>>> and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
>>> the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
>>> line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>>
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.


 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
 Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jason Shaw]

tjsdaf

On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>> above address and delete the email."
>>
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>>
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>>
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
 save attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:

>
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
> without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
>
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>> > wrote:
>>
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>>
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
>>> wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>>
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
>>> and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
>>> the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
>>> line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>>
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.


 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
 Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jason Shaw]

wtf

On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>> above address and delete the email."
>>
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>>
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>>
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
 save attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:

>
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
> without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
>
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>> > wrote:
>>
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>>
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
>>> wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>>
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
>>> and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
>>> the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
>>> line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>>
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.


 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
 Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jason Shaw]

wtf

On 2/23/2016 2:07 AM, Jessica Moss wrote:
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>> above address and delete the email."
>>
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>>
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination,
>>> distribution,copying or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have
>>> received this message in error, please notify to the sender at the
>>> above address and delete the email."
>>>
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the
 save attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:

>
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download
> thisone and copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly
> without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
>
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss
>> > wrote:
>>
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about
>> or not, but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy,
>> then says "empty html content," then I see a file name called
>> "trillian," but have no idea what version, but it's just as
>> enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, aside from the
>> older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but
>> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure
>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test
>> it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat
>> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on
>> my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>>
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the
>>> wait as well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/
>>> .
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>>
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it,
>>> and the latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after
>>> the older version still refuses to show my contacts as being on
>>> line, and the 3.3 version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>>
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.


 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter
 Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  
 

Re: trillion for mac version 3.4 built 5

[Jason Shaw]

learn to use fucking punctuation you little dibshit

On 2/23/2016 6:14 AM, Jaan Ali wrote:
> hi download the new version of trillion it is the beta 5 thats why its
> not on mac store, i got it from trillion’s webside it came on 18 feb
> 2016 and working great with voiceover below is the link for download
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/75yimmphe5x9tdr/Trillian.app.zip?dl=0
> 
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trillion for mac version 3.4 built 5

[Jaan Ali]

hi download the new version of trillion it is the beta 5 thats why its not on 
mac store, i got it from trillion’s webside it came on 18 feb 2016 and working 
great with voiceover below is the link for download
https://www.dropbox.com/s/75yimmphe5x9tdr/Trillian.app.zip?dl=0 


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Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Helga Schreiber]

Hi all! How are you all?  I'm interested in getting this for my iPhone 6S. Is 
therre this tactile dots for an ipHone 6S? Just owndering! I just go t my 
iPhone 6S last year in October. I  have been an ipHone user since 2013, when i 
got my iPhone 5.  I do type faster on my apple bluetooth keyboard, but I do 
type on my  iPhone using the screen keyboard, but i don't know if fast though! 
Hha lOL! Where can i get these dots? Just wondering! I lok forward in hearing 
from you oson. Thanks and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 

> On Feb 23, 2016, at 12:05 AM, Rachel Feinberg  wrote:
> 
> I use the standard model, and am able to text one-handed, along with 
> auto-correct and spelling suggestions, I sometimes prefer typing on the 
> touch-screen than with a bluetooth keyboard. Having reference points for the 
> 5 on the numbpad, the back/done/next/previous buttons in various apps like 
> phone and mail, and having direct access to the send, attach media, and 
> predictions buttons in the mesages app makes everything that much speedier 
> and efficient. If productivity is what you're after, I'd strongly recommend 
> you give the speedDots screen protectors a try.
>> On 2/21/2016 6:05 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my 
>> first iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, came 
>> out.  At that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile cover, so 
>> I learned to use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear from those of 
>> you who do use them.  Which one do you use?  Have you always use a tactile 
>> cover?  If not, do you feel like using one improves your speed on the iPhone?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
> 
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reading library documentation in AppleScript

[John Ylioja]

I've looked at AppleScript a little, but am unsure if there is an 
efficient way to read the library documentation to find available 
functions. I'm planning to read some of a book I got from Bookshare on 
AppleScript to learn the basics before I get too complex with it. I 
found I can navigate the sections of the library listing to select a 
part of the documentation for an app to read, but the section I select 
doesn't seem to make a difference. All of the content seems to be 
rendered in one long html area, with no obvious headings or structure to 
move through it except to move to the right one item at a time. Is there 
something I'm missing, or a more efficient way to read it?


Thanks,
John

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Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Rachel Feinberg]

I use the standard model, and am able to text one-handed, along with 
auto-correct and spelling suggestions, I sometimes prefer typing on the 
touch-screen than with a bluetooth keyboard. Having reference points for 
the 5 on the numbpad, the back/done/next/previous buttons in various 
apps like phone and mail, and having direct access to the send, attach 
media, and predictions buttons in the mesages app makes everything that 
much speedier and efficient. If productivity is what you're after, I'd 
strongly recommend you give the speedDots screen protectors a try.

On 2/21/2016 6:05 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Hi all,

When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my first 
iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, came out.  At 
that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile cover, so I learned to 
use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear from those of you who do use 
them.  Which one do you use?  Have you always use a tactile cover?  If not, do 
you feel like using one improves your speed on the iPhone?
Cheers,
Donna



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Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jaan Ali]

there you go
https://www.dropbox.com/s/75yimmphe5x9tdr/Trillian.app.zip?dl=0

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok cool.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  > wrote:
> 
>> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be 
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying or 
>> disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received 
>> this message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and 
>> delete the email."
>> 
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> DISCLAIMER:
>>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be 
>>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying 
>>> or disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received 
>>> this message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and 
>>> delete the email."
>>> 
>>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says 
 "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the save 
 attachment option is dimmed.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali > wrote:
 
> 
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download thisone and 
> copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss > > wrote:
>> 
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, 
>> but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says 
>> "empty html content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have 
>> no idea what version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the 
>> other's I've ever tried, aside from the older version that I was sent 
>> which I could somewhat use, but couldn't access any of my on line 
>> contacts, and couldn't figure out how to start a chat with anybody, on 
>> line or not just to test it.  I really just want something simple that I 
>> can use to chat with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes 
>> forever on my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
>>> well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/ 
>>> .
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
>>> latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older 
>>> version still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 
>>> version is just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS >> > wrote:
>>> 
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
 
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com 
 

Re: Taking a backup from my system with VM ware

[E.T.]

   The problem with using Time Machine is that after the initial 
backup, TM will backup the entire VNware folder again which, in my case 
is over 50 gigs. Will not take long to choke the drive that TM uses.


   My solution was to exclude that folder in TM. I use Carbon Copy 
Cloner and created a new task for the VMware folder only and run it 
weekly. It will replace the last backup with the current one.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 2/22/2016 5:58 PM, Seyoon Choi wrote:

yes, it will back up VMware as well. Basically the TimeMachine backup
performs a whole system backup, and Fusion uses what’s known as VMware
bundle file to store package of Windows files, which is by default
stored in /users/docuements/VMware folder. If you got a big enough hard
drive space you can also back that file up for any other use.
Seyoon Choi
syc20...@gmail.com 
YouTube Video Content Producer
Head of Blindinsider
www.blindinsider.com 
Technology news, podcasts, videos and lifestyle for blind and visually
impaired


On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Ramy Moustafa > wrote:

Hello all:

finally, I got my MacBook pro with El capitan and windows 7 in VMware
fusion.
now I need to be sure that I can reinstall my windows any time I will
need to do so, because I depend on backups all my life.
if I will use the time machine, will it back up  the VMware? and
windows or what?
excuse me but am very very new on the mac world.


--
Ramy MoustafaSaber
Music instructor @:
Faculty ofmusical education
Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
Harmony Recording Studio
https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg

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Re: Taking a backup from my system with VM ware

[Basioli George]

yes it will because v m fusion is like running a app in your o s x operatting 
system.  this is why v m fusion is a app in the apps window.

so, it backups with time machine and any thing you have installed to the fusion 
app.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 17:58 PM, Seyoon Choi  wrote:
> 
> yes, it will back up VMware as well. Basically the TimeMachine backup 
> performs a whole system backup, and Fusion uses what’s known as VMware bundle 
> file to store package of Windows files, which is by default stored in 
> /users/docuements/VMware folder. If you got a big enough hard drive space you 
> can also back that file up for any other use.
> Seyoon Choi
> syc20...@gmail.com 
> YouTube Video Content Producer
> Head of Blindinsider
> www.blindinsider.com 
> Technology news, podcasts, videos and lifestyle for blind and visually 
> impaired
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Ramy Moustafa > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all:
>> 
>> finally, I got my MacBook pro with El capitan and windows 7 in VMware fusion.
>> now I need to be sure that I can reinstall my windows any time I will
>> need to do so, because I depend on backups all my life.
>> if I will use the time machine, will it back up  the VMware? and
>> windows or what?
>> excuse me but am very very new on the mac world.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ramy MoustafaSaber
>> Music instructor @:
>> Faculty ofmusical education
>> Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
>> Harmony Recording Studio
>> https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok cool.
On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:04 PM, jaan ali  wrote:

> Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be 
> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying or 
> disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received 
> this message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and 
> delete the email."
> 
> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali  wrote:
> 
>> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> DISCLAIMER:
>> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be 
>> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
>> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying or 
>> disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
>> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received 
>> this message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and 
>> delete the email."
>> 
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says 
>>> "attachment available until," but don't remember the date, but the save 
>>> attachment option is dimmed.
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali  wrote:
>>> 
 
 Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
 hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download thisone and 
 copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly without any problim
 i think it is 3.2
  but it is working like a charm
 
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss  
> wrote:
> 
> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, 
> but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says 
> "empty html content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have 
> no idea what version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's 
> I've ever tried, aside from the older version that I was sent which I 
> could somewhat use, but couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and 
> couldn't figure out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just 
> to test it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat 
> with people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on my 
> phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:
> 
>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
>> well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
>> latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older 
>> version still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 
>> version is just as useless.
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>>> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week 
>>> ago? I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
 
 Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
 address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jessica Moss]

I've looked all over creation, and don't see a download button anywhere.
On Feb 22, 2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali  wrote:

> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be 
> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying or 
> disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received 
> this message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and 
> delete the email."
> 
> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
>> Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says "attachment 
>> available until," but don't remember the date, but the save attachment 
>> option is dimmed.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
>>> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download thisone and 
>>> copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly without any problim
>>> i think it is 3.2
>>>  but it is working like a charm
>>> 
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss  
 wrote:
 
 k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, 
 but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says "empty 
 html content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have no idea 
 what version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's I've 
 ever tried, aside from the older version that I was sent which I could 
 somewhat use, but couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't 
 figure out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test 
 it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat with 
 people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on my phone, and 
 this is frustrating the heck out of me.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:
 
> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
> well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
> latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older 
> version still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 
> version is just as useless.
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
> 
>> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week 
>> ago? I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
>>> address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want 
>>> it as well.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Oh cool, 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[jaan ali]

Ok will try to provide its dropbox link in a hour or so

Sent from my iPhone

DISCLAIMER:
"The information contained in this message is confidential and may be protected 
by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying or 
disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received this 
message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and delete 
the email."

> On 22-Feb-2016, at 9:01 PM, jaan ali  wrote:
> 
> Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
> "The information contained in this message is confidential and may be 
> protected by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
> the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying or 
> disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
> strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received 
> this message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and 
> delete the email."
> 
>> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says "attachment 
>> available until," but don't remember the date, but the save attachment 
>> option is dimmed.
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
>>> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download thisone and 
>>> copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly without any problim
>>> i think it is 3.2
>>>  but it is working like a charm
>>> 
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss  
 wrote:
 
 k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, 
 but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says "empty 
 html content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have no idea 
 what version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's I've 
 ever tried, aside from the older version that I was sent which I could 
 somewhat use, but couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't 
 figure out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test 
 it.  I really just want something simple that I can use to chat with 
 people on fb through my computer, sense it takes forever on my phone, and 
 this is frustrating the heck out of me.
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:
 
> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
> well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
> latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older 
> version still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 
> version is just as useless.
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week 
>> ago? I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
>>> address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want 
>>> it as well.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn 

OT: Applescript refusing to see document object of Pages?

[Alex Hall]

Hey list,
Anyone else out there who plays with AppleScript, I'd love your help. I'm 
trying to help someone automate the completion of some long forms in Pages, and 
I know how I'm going to do it. The problem is that even the simplest script 
errors out with "Pages got an error: can't get document 1". If I can't access 
the document, it's not going to work at all. Yet, I have no clue why I can't, 
and all the samples I've looked up do exactly what I do. I even used one of the 
samples, straight from the web, and got the exact same error. It has to be 
something funny locally, but I don't know what. I don't even know where to 
look. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

--
Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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--- 
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[jaan ali]

Click on the download button which is in the starting of the message 

Sent from my iPhone

DISCLAIMER:
"The information contained in this message is confidential and may be protected 
by legal privilege. It is intended only for 
the person(s) named as addressee. The dissemination, distribution,copying or 
disclosure of this message, or its contents is 
strictly prohibited unless authorized by the sender. If you have received this 
message in error, please notify to the sender at the above address and delete 
the email."

> On 22-Feb-2016, at 8:55 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says "attachment 
> available until," but don't remember the date, but the save attachment option 
> is dimmed.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
>> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download thisone and 
>> copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly without any problim
>> i think it is 3.2
>>  but it is working like a charm
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, 
>>> but when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says "empty 
>>> html content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have no idea 
>>> what version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever 
>>> tried, aside from the older version that I was sent which I could somewhat 
>>> use, but couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure 
>>> out how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test it.  I 
>>> really just want something simple that I can use to chat with people on fb 
>>> through my computer, sense it takes forever on my phone, and this is 
>>> frustrating the heck out of me.
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
 Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
 well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
 
 Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
 latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older 
 version still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 
 version is just as useless.
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
> 
> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week 
> ago? I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>> Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
>> address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want 
>> it as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Oh cool, how did you manage to get it?
>>> On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:40 PM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jessica. My offline contacts are hidden by default. I don't know why 
>>> that isn't the case for you. By the way, they released Trillian 3.4 

Re: Taking a backup from my system with VM ware

[Seyoon Choi]

yes, it will back up VMware as well. Basically the TimeMachine backup performs 
a whole system backup, and Fusion uses what’s known as VMware bundle file to 
store package of Windows files, which is by default stored in 
/users/docuements/VMware folder. If you got a big enough hard drive space you 
can also back that file up for any other use.
Seyoon Choi
syc20...@gmail.com
YouTube Video Content Producer
Head of Blindinsider
www.blindinsider.com
Technology news, podcasts, videos and lifestyle for blind and visually impaired

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> finally, I got my MacBook pro with El capitan and windows 7 in VMware fusion.
> now I need to be sure that I can reinstall my windows any time I will
> need to do so, because I depend on backups all my life.
> if I will use the time machine, will it back up  the VMware? and
> windows or what?
> excuse me but am very very new on the mac world.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ramy MoustafaSaber
> Music instructor @:
> Faculty ofmusical education
> Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
> Harmony Recording Studio
> https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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--- 
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Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, I don't see anything to download.  I see something that says "attachment 
available until," but don't remember the date, but the save attachment option 
is dimmed.
On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:50 PM, Jaan Ali  wrote:

> 
> Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
> hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download thisone and 
> copy it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly without any problim
> i think it is 3.2
>  but it is working like a charm
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, but 
>> when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says "empty html 
>> content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have no idea what 
>> version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever 
>> tried, aside from the older version that I was sent which I could somewhat 
>> use, but couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure out 
>> how to start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test it.  I really 
>> just want something simple that I can use to chat with people on fb through 
>> my computer, sense it takes forever on my phone, and this is frustrating the 
>> heck out of me.
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
>>> well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
>>> latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older version 
>>> still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 version is 
>>> just as useless.
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
 No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
 
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
 
 Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week 
 ago? I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
> 
> Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
> address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want 
> it as well.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Oh cool, how did you manage to get it?
>> On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:40 PM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jessica. My offline contacts are hidden by default. I don't know why 
>> that isn't the case for you. By the way, they released Trillian 3.4 
>> which fixes the accessibility issues and more. It's not in the app store 
>> yet but I have it.
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:26 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Ok, with a 

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jaan Ali]

Attachment available until Mar 23, 2016
hi kindly remove the version that you are useing and download thisone and copy 
it in your app’s folder i am running it perfectly without any problim
i think it is 3.2
 but it is working like a charm

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, but 
> when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says "empty html 
> content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have no idea what 
> version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, 
> aside from the older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but 
> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure out how to 
> start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test it.  I really just 
> want something simple that I can use to chat with people on fb through my 
> computer, sense it takes forever on my phone, and this is frustrating the 
> heck out of me.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:
> 
>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
>> well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
>> latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older version 
>> still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 version is 
>> just as useless.
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>>> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week ago? 
>>> I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
 
 Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
 address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want it 
 as well.
 
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
 
 Oh cool, how did you manage to get it?
> On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:40 PM, BBS  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jessica. My offline contacts are hidden by default. I don't know why 
> that isn't the case for you. By the way, they released Trillian 3.4 which 
> fixes the accessibility issues and more. It's not in the app store yet 
> but I have it.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:26 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Ok, with a ton of playing around with it, I finally got trillian up and 
> running, however, it now wants to show every single contact I have on 
> facebook, which is over 100, whether they're on line or not, and is a 
> pain in the neck to deal with, sense it doesn't say if they're on line or 
> not.  Is there any way to hide my off line contacts?

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jaan Ali]

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, but 
> when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says "empty html 
> content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have no idea what 
> version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, 
> aside from the older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but 
> couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure out how to 
> start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test it.  I really just 
> want something simple that I can use to chat with people on fb through my 
> computer, sense it takes forever on my phone, and this is frustrating the 
> heck out of me.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:
> 
>> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as 
>> well. www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the 
>> latest I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older version 
>> still refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 version is 
>> just as useless.
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>>> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week ago? 
>>> I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
 
 Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
 address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want it 
 as well.
 
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
 
 Oh cool, how did you manage to get it?
> On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:40 PM, BBS  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jessica. My offline contacts are hidden by default. I don't know why 
> that isn't the case for you. By the way, they released Trillian 3.4 which 
> fixes the accessibility issues and more. It's not in the app store yet 
> but I have it.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:26 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Ok, with a ton of playing around with it, I finally got trillian up and 
> running, however, it now wants to show every single contact I have on 
> facebook, which is over 100, whether they're on line or not, and is a 
> pain in the neck to deal with, sense it doesn't say if they're on line or 
> not.  Is there any way to hide my off line contacts?
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is 

Taking a backup from my system with VM ware

[Ramy Moustafa]

Hello all:

finally, I got my MacBook pro with El capitan and windows 7 in VMware fusion.
now I need to be sure that I can reinstall my windows any time I will
need to do so, because I depend on backups all my life.
if I will use the time machine, will it back up  the VMware? and
windows or what?
excuse me but am very very new on the mac world.


-- 
Ramy MoustafaSaber
Music instructor @:
Faculty ofmusical education
Music arranger and Sound engineer @:
Harmony Recording Studio
https://www.facebook.com/HarmonyRecordingStudio.eg

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Custom Pronunciations for Entire Phrases

[Abdullah Ibrahim Olivares]

Hello,

In Voiceover, is there a way of having a custom pronunciation for an entire 
phrase, instead of a single word? When I try creating a pronunciation for a 
phrase, it doesn’t seem to work. There are common phrases I want Voiceover to 
pronounce in a certain way, which are in a different language and alphabet.

Abdullah

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- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jessica Moss]

k, I'm not sure if this is the version you were telling me about or not, but 
when I click the link, it just temporarily goes busy, then says "empty html 
content," then I see a file name called "trillian," but have no idea what 
version, but it's just as enaccessible as any of the other's I've ever tried, 
aside from the older version that I was sent which I could somewhat use, but 
couldn't access any of my on line contacts, and couldn't figure out how to 
start a chat with anybody, on line or not just to test it.  I really just want 
something simple that I can use to chat with people on fb through my computer, 
sense it takes forever on my phone, and this is frustrating the heck out of me.
On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:21 PM, BBS  wrote:

> Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as well. 
> www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the latest 
> I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older version still 
> refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 version is just as 
> useless.
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:
> 
>> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week ago? 
>> I got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
>>> address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want it 
>>> as well.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Oh cool, how did you manage to get it?
 On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:40 PM, BBS  wrote:
 
 Hi Jessica. My offline contacts are hidden by default. I don't know why 
 that isn't the case for you. By the way, they released Trillian 3.4 which 
 fixes the accessibility issues and more. It's not in the app store yet but 
 I have it.
 
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
 shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
 bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
 Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:26 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
 
 Ok, with a ton of playing around with it, I finally got trillian up and 
 running, however, it now wants to show every single contact I have on 
 facebook, which is over 100, whether they're on line or not, and is a pain 
 in the neck to deal with, sense it doesn't say if they're on line or not.  
 Is there any way to hide my off line contacts?
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
 Cara Quinn 

Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Danny Noonan]

As the dots are reference points less dots IMO are far less confusing. Also at 
least with speed dots there is no grid. Just small dots aprox the size of a 
Braille dot and they in no way effect use of the touch screen. I find it easier 
and have more control than with plane glass which is more slippery. Moving 
icons is no harder or different with speed dots. 
Give it a try with an open mind and good chance you'll like it and if not it's 
only a few dollars lost. 
Oh, you can see the dots but my daughter and sighted friends have no trouble 
seeing the screen and I don't find it destroys the tactile asthetic either. 

Have a great day.  

Danny 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Feb 2016, at 1:23 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Danny,
> 
> Thanks for responding.  As I said, when I started using an iPhone, these 
> things didn't exist.  Consequently, I've never really thought about them 
> until now.  I confess that I dislike the thought of turning my nice, smooth 
> iPhone into something, well, not nice and smooth, but I may try it.  Faster 
> typing would be nice, I'm probably about like Erik, maybe 20 WPM.
> 
> Thanks also for sharing your preference for the advanced version.  On the one 
> hand, if faster typing is what I'm after, it seems like it would be nice to 
> have all the letters.  But I can also see where that might bake the overlay 
> too crowded.
> Cheers,
> Donna  
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 4:06 AM, Danny Noonan  wrote:
>> 
>> I concidder myself a power user and although I can certainly use I devices 
>> without a speed dots on I do definately prefer the tactile. My wife and I 
>> use the advanced as the f and j home keys are enough. The entire keyboard 
>> minus home keys is harder to use IMO. The back edit 5 on the num pad etc 
>> just give quick reference points that help me find buttons that much 
>> quicker. Personal preference but my typing with tactile home keys is much 
>> faster along with general movement and orientation on the screen. 
>> If you decide only beginners need tactile screen covers then your not being 
>> open minded. Try it out and decide. 
>> 
>> Danny
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 22 Feb 2016, at 8:38 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Erik,
>>> 
>>> I suspect I would feel the same way, though I am thinking about giving one 
>>> a try just to see if I like it.  Typing speed would be the one real 
>>> advantage I could see.  Mostly I just use Siri and dictate, but it does 
>>> seem like being able to actually type more quickly, say if you're in a 
>>> noisy environment, could be handy.  Thanks for sharing your reaction.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:14 AM, erik burggraaf  
 wrote:
 
 Hi,  I saw several when I was training extensively.  I found it very 
 distracting after learning without.  On the other hand,  I've read user 
 claims of 80 wpm typing speed when learning to type with a tactile screen 
 protecter.  I'm certainly nowhere near that.  15 or 20 wpm at best and 
 thank goodness for completion suggestions and spelling corrections.  Maybe 
 I missed the boat on tactile screen protectors but it certainly doesn't 
 feel that way when I pick up my devices.
 
 Best,
 
 Erik Burggraaf
 
 
> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my 
> first iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, 
> came out.  At that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile 
> cover, so I learned to use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear 
> from those of you who do use them.  Which one do you use?  Have you 
> always use a tactile cover?  If not, do you feel like using one improves 
> your speed on the iPhone?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
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> Visit this group at 

Re: Digest for macvisionaries@googlegroups.com - 19 updates in 5 topics

[Chenelle Hancock]

Sent from my iPhone

> Hello everyone,
It's been a while since I posted out here. I wanted to know I'm in the process 
of getting the iPad Pro and I wanted to know what Duxberry work with the iPad 
Pro if you're using windows word document in order to emboss a file from your 
iPad pro using your braille embosser?
Thank you so much and have a great day.
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 4:09 PM, macvisionaries@googlegroups.com wrote:
> 
> 
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com   Google Groups  
> Topic digest 
> View all topics
> Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search - 13 Updates
> finally got trillion up and running and have a question. - 1 Update
> battery in Apple TV remote? - 2 Updates
> Questions re tactile covers - 2 Updates
> smart folders - 1 Update
> Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search 
> "E.T." : Feb 22 07:47AM -0800 
> 
> Trump has everything and nothing at the same time. Boggles my mind 
> those who follow him.
>  
> Back to fingerprints. I do not have a 6 do am curious. How does this 
> work? A single finger? Any one of the 10? How many tries does one have? 
> Surely not 10. I see a cretin knocking you down and choosing a finger to 
> unlock the phone then run off with it.
>  
> Ok its Monday and I need coffee. (smiles)
>  
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
>  
> On 2/22/2016 5:33 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> Scott Granados : Feb 22 11:10AM -0500 
> 
> No you raise good questions.
>  
> It’s a single finger print reader uncle the home button. On the 6S it was 
> upgraded and is very very fast but it’s worked reliably now for me in all 
> versions since release.
>  
> You can scan up to 5 individual fingers and it’s advised you scan one from 
> each hand in case you lose a hand or finger. (seriously)
>  
> The process is you rest your finger on the reader and it unlocks the phone or 
> works with applications.
>  
> Yes, you have up to 10 scans or 10 times to enter your passcode or some 
> combination of.
>  
> You could grab a finger and hold it to the scanner but you can also remotely 
> wipe the phone so that’s of limited value.
>  
>  
>  
> Sabahattin Gucukoglu : Feb 22 04:19PM 
> 
> OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I think, 
> even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.
>  
> I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore don’t 
> enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this case. Nor do I 
> believe that the U.S. sovereignty is indicative of any real trend; at best it 
> is a matter for western “Democracies”, and I daresay you can guess how I feel 
> about those. I don’t even believe the U.S. is safe, given what we now know is 
> possible, following the revelation of the specifics.
>  
> This article, by a Canadian, captures my feelings very well:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/
>  
> In summary, I agree with the judge. I believe this was a PR campaign intended 
> to attract public support for Apple’s business practices, regardless of 
> Cook’s genuine ethical alignment on the issue. I believe Apple would have 
> acceded to the demands, had they been filed under seal, as Apple had 
> initially requested, and that Apple’s plea was necessary as a response to the 
> FBI’s refusal. I think this firmware hack qualifies as legal 
> assistance—particularly horrible legal assistance, but assistance 
> nevertheless, made more than possible by the ineffectual security of these 
> devices—and that the case for proper security far exceeds any question of 
> legal precedent, particularly when the search was legitimate and would 
> otherwise have been authorised without Apple’s assistance. Clearly, the fact 
> that the judiciary can ask for the data is the vulnerability here, and not 
> that they can compel a manufacturer to exploit a weakness in their products.
>  
> Therefore, the only defence is cryptography; anything less is mere security 
> by obscurity. We must have cryptography that works, is provable and is 
> verifiable. The iPhone does not provide this: Apple maintains the key for the 
> software upgrade process, and that process exposes the weakness of the 
> cryptography now in use to any person in possession of it, including but not 
> limited to the U.S. judiciary courtesy of Apple itself. Between Apple’s 
> hubris and the need for user convenience, Apple is using the court to defend 
> the indefensible, and are fighting entirely the wrong fight. We need 
> cryptography, under our control, and without the threat of trivial 
> circumvention. Until this changes, Apple’s appeal to the court and the public 
> is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.
>  
> So Apple should accede to the FBI, as ordered. It’s the best thing that 
> privacy 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Yep, it later emerged that the FBI, through malice or incompetence, reset the 
account password and thus prevented those all-important (but incomplete) iCloud 
backups from occurring.  (Notice that iCloud backups are another way in, which 
is something many customers aren’t aware of.)

And I don’t blame you one bit for distrusting the FBI.  This is the government 
that gave birth to “National Security Letters”.  The fact that these clowns are 
pushing for even more power, even though it would be limited to after-the-fact 
exams, probably says that they aren’t finished grasping, and not by a long 
shot.  Certainly off-worlders can forget any legal protections that you might 
get as a result of all this, particularly while passing through your delightful 
TSL checkpoints.  I can just imagine it, being asked for my phone so they can 
take an image for later cryptanalysis, because I “Look foreign".  Ugh.

But, alas, we’re still in the precarious situation that even if the court’s 
decision is somehow overturned, we now know something rather uncomfortable 
about iOS security.  Apple just painted a great big “Hack me!” sign on its 
gigantic half-eaten Apple logo.  I side with Apple insofar as I believe we’re 
entitled to security, but there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of being able 
to trust the technology while it’s in such close proximity to the powers that 
be(TM), much less all the h4x3rz who will be trying their damned best to obtain 
the golden keys and make life miserable for the 99%.  And don’t forget that 
some of these actors will be well-funded, and under the control of other, less 
well-adjusted governments.  Ironic, given the message Apple is sending about 
the importance of security.  If they know they’re a weak link, they’re not 
exactly eager to tell the world. :)

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Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

Yes, I believe the previous poster is correct we’ve deviated to far from the 
topic.

I do appreciate everyone’s well thought out responses.  If anyone is interested 
in deviating from the topic contact me off list we can move this to my list or 
else where where we won’t overly burden or offend folks not interested.

Thank you all though for great discussion.

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 2:11 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   Spot on! And I will lay this to rest since even the apple in the first book 
> is not being discussed. (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 2/22/2016 10:55 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> E.T. is correct.
>> 
>> The fore fathers used spiritual principles in the idea of the constitution 
>> as well as references to a general creator and inalienable rights but the 
>> Christian God and the bible are not mentioned.  In fact, a good percentage 
>> of the founders were Masons who were a very religious tolerant bunch (still 
>> are) and who wrote the constitution from more of a Deist point of view than 
>> Christian.  (hence the all seeing eye and many other symbols in our 
>> historical documents and places)
>> 
>> Also, contrary to common belief, church and state separation aren’t 
>> specifically mentioned other than the Government shall not limit religion 
>> but there is no real barrier to incorporating religious thought in to 
>> governance.  Church and state separation were discussed much more in Thomas 
>> Jefferson’s own writings and sometimes that’s what’s quoted incorrectly in 
>> place of the constitution.
>> 
>> That being said, E.T’s comments are valid because the bible isn’t 
>> specifically sited and really government should not support or favor any 
>> religion.  Christians bastardize the document as much as non believers.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:16 PM, CHUCK REICHEL 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi E.T.
>>> Apparently you haven't read the constitution and the bill of rights!
>>> If your open to learning about the USA history here you go;
>>> http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/
>>> Also heres what being politically correct gets you!
>>> 
>>> http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/06/judge-jeanine-neighbors-of-san-bernardino-attackers-afraid-of-being-called-islamaphobic-part-of-islamic-terrorist-plan/
>>> Barack Hussein Obama is ultimately approving the home land security and  
>>> FBI Iphone "power grab",
>>> And all the other privacy's we have and them being usurped!
>>> Power corrupts! But absolute power corrupts absolutely!
>>> 
>>> PS I know!
>>> You believe ancient  aliens brought us the iphone! LOL
>>> YMWV
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 12:16 PM, E.T. wrote:
>>> 
  All I will say to this is that this country was not founded on biblical 
 principles.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 2/22/2016 9:09 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> I agree 1776 was a great year!
> This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the
> borders and through out all the illegals in the USA!
> Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not
> politically correct and we dig it!
> I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
> Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
> HTH
> 
> Chuck
> 
> CHUCK REICHEL
> soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
> www.SoundPictureRecording.com 
> 954-742-0019
> Isaiah 26 : 3
> Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
> because he trusteth in thee.
> 
> In GOD I Trust
> 
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> 
>> Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though
>> really well made by the way.
>> 
>> The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s
>> come out in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local
>> coverage is reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their
>> possession and Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as
>> well ad decrypt anything etc.
>> 
>> Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands
>> for Fat, Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying
>> to scare us in to submission.
>> 
>> You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for
>> strong, real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to
>> cry out against a bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the
>> people and by the people phrase and 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[E.T.]

Scott,
   Spot on! And I will lay this to rest since even the apple in the 
first book is not being discussed. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 2/22/2016 10:55 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

E.T. is correct.

The fore fathers used spiritual principles in the idea of the constitution as 
well as references to a general creator and inalienable rights but the 
Christian God and the bible are not mentioned.  In fact, a good percentage of 
the founders were Masons who were a very religious tolerant bunch (still are) 
and who wrote the constitution from more of a Deist point of view than 
Christian.  (hence the all seeing eye and many other symbols in our historical 
documents and places)

Also, contrary to common belief, church and state separation aren’t 
specifically mentioned other than the Government shall not limit religion but 
there is no real barrier to incorporating religious thought in to governance.  
Church and state separation were discussed much more in Thomas Jefferson’s own 
writings and sometimes that’s what’s quoted incorrectly in place of the 
constitution.

That being said, E.T’s comments are valid because the bible isn’t specifically 
sited and really government should not support or favor any religion.  
Christians bastardize the document as much as non believers.






On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:16 PM, CHUCK REICHEL  
wrote:

Hi E.T.
Apparently you haven't read the constitution and the bill of rights!
If your open to learning about the USA history here you go;
http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/
Also heres what being politically correct gets you!

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/06/judge-jeanine-neighbors-of-san-bernardino-attackers-afraid-of-being-called-islamaphobic-part-of-islamic-terrorist-plan/
Barack Hussein Obama is ultimately approving the home land security and  FBI Iphone 
"power grab",
And all the other privacy's we have and them being usurped!
Power corrupts! But absolute power corrupts absolutely!

PS I know!
You believe ancient  aliens brought us the iphone! LOL
YMWV

Chuck

On Feb 22, 2016, at 12:16 PM, E.T. wrote:


  All I will say to this is that this country was not founded on biblical 
principles.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 2/22/2016 9:09 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Scott,
I agree 1776 was a great year!
This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the
borders and through out all the illegals in the USA!
Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not
politically correct and we dig it!
I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
HTH

Chuck

CHUCK REICHEL
soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
www.SoundPictureRecording.com 
954-742-0019
Isaiah 26 : 3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
because he trusteth in thee.

In GOD I Trust

On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:


Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though
really well made by the way.

The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s
come out in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local
coverage is reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their
possession and Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as
well ad decrypt anything etc.

Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands
for Fat, Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying
to scare us in to submission.

You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for
strong, real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to
cry out against a bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the
people and by the people phrase and rather treats us as subjects.
That might work for you queen lovers across the pond:) but not so
much here.  Something about a small skirmish back in 1776 or so.

I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything,
especially to circumvent security whether it’s good security or not.

As always though, well presented and thank you for the thought provoker.

I like both sides on this.  I’m encouraged so many support protection
of the 4th amendment but I also welcome the chance to discuss with
someone who feels the opposite.

Thank you



On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > wrote:

OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I
think, even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.

I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore
don’t enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[E.T.]

Chuck,
   Feel free to email me off list if you want to know the truth.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 2/22/2016 10:16 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi E.T.
Apparently you haven't read the constitution and the bill of rights!
If your open to learning about the USA history here you go;
http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/
Also heres what being politically correct gets you!

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/06/judge-jeanine-neighbors-of-san-bernardino-attackers-afraid-of-being-called-islamaphobic-part-of-islamic-terrorist-plan/
Barack Hussein Obama is ultimately approving the home land security and  FBI Iphone 
"power grab",
And all the other privacy's we have and them being usurped!
Power corrupts! But absolute power corrupts absolutely!

PS I know!
You believe ancient  aliens brought us the iphone! LOL
YMWV

Chuck

On Feb 22, 2016, at 12:16 PM, E.T. wrote:


   All I will say to this is that this country was not founded on biblical 
principles.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 2/22/2016 9:09 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Scott,
I agree 1776 was a great year!
This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the
borders and through out all the illegals in the USA!
Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not
politically correct and we dig it!
I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
HTH

Chuck

CHUCK REICHEL
soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
www.SoundPictureRecording.com 
954-742-0019
Isaiah 26 : 3
  Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
because he trusteth in thee.

In GOD I Trust

On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:


Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though
really well made by the way.

The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s
come out in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local
coverage is reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their
possession and Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as
well ad decrypt anything etc.

Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands
for Fat, Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying
to scare us in to submission.

You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for
strong, real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to
cry out against a bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the
people and by the people phrase and rather treats us as subjects.
That might work for you queen lovers across the pond:) but not so
much here.  Something about a small skirmish back in 1776 or so.

I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything,
especially to circumvent security whether it’s good security or not.

As always though, well presented and thank you for the thought provoker.

I like both sides on this.  I’m encouraged so many support protection
of the 4th amendment but I also welcome the chance to discuss with
someone who feels the opposite.

Thank you



On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > wrote:

OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I
think, even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.

I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore
don’t enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this case.
Nor do I believe that the U.S. sovereignty is indicative of any real
trend; at best it is a matter for western “Democracies”, and I
daresay you can guess how I feel about those.  I don’t even believe
the U.S. is safe, given what we now know is possible, following the
revelation of the specifics.

This article, by a Canadian, captures my feelings very well:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/

In summary, I agree with the judge.  I believe this was a PR campaign
intended to attract public support for Apple’s business practices,
regardless of Cook’s genuine ethical alignment on the issue.  I
believe Apple would have acceded to the demands, had they been filed
under seal, as Apple had initially requested, and that Apple’s plea
was necessary as a response to the FBI’s refusal.  I think this
firmware hack qualifies as legal assistance—particularly horrible
legal assistance, but assistance nevertheless, made more than
possible by the ineffectual security of these devices—and that the
case for proper security far exceeds any question of legal precedent,
particularly when the search was legitimate and would otherwise have
been authorised without Apple’s assistance.  Clearly, the 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Tyler Thompson]

How exactly is this on topic? I was under the impression the discussion was 
about whether apple should cave to the FBI’s demands. For the sake of a 
reasonable, clean debate on the subject I’d like to ask we avoid religious and 
political beliefs. The question is a simple one, what do we think of the 
concept, is it a dangerous security breach or is it fine to let the FBI force 
apple to create this backdoor.

Donald Trump, god and immigration are completely irrelevant.


> On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> E.T. is correct.
> 
> The fore fathers used spiritual principles in the idea of the constitution as 
> well as references to a general creator and inalienable rights but the 
> Christian God and the bible are not mentioned.  In fact, a good percentage of 
> the founders were Masons who were a very religious tolerant bunch (still are) 
> and who wrote the constitution from more of a Deist point of view than 
> Christian.  (hence the all seeing eye and many other symbols in our 
> historical documents and places)
> 
> Also, contrary to common belief, church and state separation aren’t 
> specifically mentioned other than the Government shall not limit religion but 
> there is no real barrier to incorporating religious thought in to governance. 
>  Church and state separation were discussed much more in Thomas Jefferson’s 
> own writings and sometimes that’s what’s quoted incorrectly in place of the 
> constitution.
> 
> That being said, E.T’s comments are valid because the bible isn’t 
> specifically sited and really government should not support or favor any 
> religion.  Christians bastardize the document as much as non believers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:16 PM, CHUCK REICHEL  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi E.T.
>> Apparently you haven't read the constitution and the bill of rights!
>> If your open to learning about the USA history here you go;
>> http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/
>> Also heres what being politically correct gets you!
>> 
>> http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/06/judge-jeanine-neighbors-of-san-bernardino-attackers-afraid-of-being-called-islamaphobic-part-of-islamic-terrorist-plan/
>> Barack Hussein Obama is ultimately approving the home land security and  FBI 
>> Iphone "power grab",
>> And all the other privacy's we have and them being usurped!
>> Power corrupts! But absolute power corrupts absolutely!
>> 
>> PS I know!
>> You believe ancient  aliens brought us the iphone! LOL
>> YMWV
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 12:16 PM, E.T. wrote:
>> 
>>> All I will say to this is that this country was not founded on biblical 
>>> principles.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 2/22/2016 9:09 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
 Hi Scott,
 I agree 1776 was a great year!
 This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the
 borders and through out all the illegals in the USA!
 Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not
 politically correct and we dig it!
 I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
 Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
 HTH
 
 Chuck
 
 CHUCK REICHEL
 soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
 www.SoundPictureRecording.com 
 954-742-0019
 Isaiah 26 : 3
 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
 because he trusteth in thee.
 
 In GOD I Trust
 
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 
> Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though
> really well made by the way.
> 
> The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s
> come out in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local
> coverage is reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their
> possession and Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as
> well ad decrypt anything etc.
> 
> Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands
> for Fat, Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying
> to scare us in to submission.
> 
> You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for
> strong, real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to
> cry out against a bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the
> people and by the people phrase and rather treats us as subjects.
> That might work for you queen lovers across the pond:) but not so
> much here.  Something about a small skirmish back in 1776 or so.
> 
> I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything,
> especially to circumvent security whether 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

E.T. is correct.

The fore fathers used spiritual principles in the idea of the constitution as 
well as references to a general creator and inalienable rights but the 
Christian God and the bible are not mentioned.  In fact, a good percentage of 
the founders were Masons who were a very religious tolerant bunch (still are) 
and who wrote the constitution from more of a Deist point of view than 
Christian.  (hence the all seeing eye and many other symbols in our historical 
documents and places)

Also, contrary to common belief, church and state separation aren’t 
specifically mentioned other than the Government shall not limit religion but 
there is no real barrier to incorporating religious thought in to governance.  
Church and state separation were discussed much more in Thomas Jefferson’s own 
writings and sometimes that’s what’s quoted incorrectly in place of the 
constitution.

That being said, E.T’s comments are valid because the bible isn’t specifically 
sited and really government should not support or favor any religion.  
Christians bastardize the document as much as non believers.





> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:16 PM, CHUCK REICHEL  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi E.T.
> Apparently you haven't read the constitution and the bill of rights!
> If your open to learning about the USA history here you go;
> http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/
> Also heres what being politically correct gets you!
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/06/judge-jeanine-neighbors-of-san-bernardino-attackers-afraid-of-being-called-islamaphobic-part-of-islamic-terrorist-plan/
> Barack Hussein Obama is ultimately approving the home land security and  FBI 
> Iphone "power grab",
> And all the other privacy's we have and them being usurped!
> Power corrupts! But absolute power corrupts absolutely!
> 
> PS I know!
> You believe ancient  aliens brought us the iphone! LOL
> YMWV
> 
> Chuck
> 
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 12:16 PM, E.T. wrote:
> 
>>  All I will say to this is that this country was not founded on biblical 
>> principles.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 2/22/2016 9:09 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> I agree 1776 was a great year!
>>> This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the
>>> borders and through out all the illegals in the USA!
>>> Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not
>>> politically correct and we dig it!
>>> I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
>>> Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
>>> HTH
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> CHUCK REICHEL
>>> soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
>>> www.SoundPictureRecording.com 
>>> 954-742-0019
>>> Isaiah 26 : 3
>>> Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
>>> because he trusteth in thee.
>>> 
>>> In GOD I Trust
>>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> 
 Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though
 really well made by the way.
 
 The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s
 come out in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local
 coverage is reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their
 possession and Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as
 well ad decrypt anything etc.
 
 Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands
 for Fat, Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying
 to scare us in to submission.
 
 You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for
 strong, real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to
 cry out against a bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the
 people and by the people phrase and rather treats us as subjects.
 That might work for you queen lovers across the pond:) but not so
 much here.  Something about a small skirmish back in 1776 or so.
 
 I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything,
 especially to circumvent security whether it’s good security or not.
 
 As always though, well presented and thank you for the thought provoker.
 
 I like both sides on this.  I’m encouraged so many support protection
 of the 4th amendment but I also welcome the chance to discuss with
 someone who feels the opposite.
 
 Thank you
 
 
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  > wrote:
> 
> OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I
> think, even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.
> 
> I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore

RE: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[BBS]

Here is the link to get Trillian 3.4. Sorry Scott Berry for the wait as well. 
www.trillian.im/get/mac/3.4/.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 7:12 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the latest 
I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older version still 
refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 version is just as 
useless.
On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:

> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week ago? I 
> got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>> Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
>> address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want it 
>> as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Oh cool, how did you manage to get it?
>>> On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:40 PM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jessica. My offline contacts are hidden by default. I don't know why 
>>> that isn't the case for you. By the way, they released Trillian 3.4 which 
>>> fixes the accessibility issues and more. It's not in the app store yet but 
>>> I have it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:26 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Ok, with a ton of playing around with it, I finally got trillian up and 
>>> running, however, it now wants to show every single contact I have on 
>>> facebook, which is over 100, whether they're on line or not, and is a pain 
>>> in the neck to deal with, sense it doesn't say if they're on line or not.  
>>> Is there any way to hide my off line contacts?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi E.T.
Apparently you haven't read the constitution and the bill of rights!
If your open to learning about the USA history here you go;
http://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/constitution/
Also heres what being politically correct gets you!

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/12/06/judge-jeanine-neighbors-of-san-bernardino-attackers-afraid-of-being-called-islamaphobic-part-of-islamic-terrorist-plan/
Barack Hussein Obama is ultimately approving the home land security and  FBI 
Iphone "power grab",
And all the other privacy's we have and them being usurped!
Power corrupts! But absolute power corrupts absolutely!

PS I know!
You believe ancient  aliens brought us the iphone! LOL
YMWV

Chuck

On Feb 22, 2016, at 12:16 PM, E.T. wrote:

>   All I will say to this is that this country was not founded on biblical 
> principles.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 2/22/2016 9:09 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:
>> Hi Scott,
>> I agree 1776 was a great year!
>> This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the
>> borders and through out all the illegals in the USA!
>> Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not
>> politically correct and we dig it!
>> I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
>> Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
>> HTH
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> CHUCK REICHEL
>> soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
>> www.SoundPictureRecording.com 
>> 954-742-0019
>> Isaiah 26 : 3
>>  Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
>> because he trusteth in thee.
>> 
>> In GOD I Trust
>> 
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> 
>>> Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though
>>> really well made by the way.
>>> 
>>> The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s
>>> come out in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local
>>> coverage is reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their
>>> possession and Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as
>>> well ad decrypt anything etc.
>>> 
>>> Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands
>>> for Fat, Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying
>>> to scare us in to submission.
>>> 
>>> You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for
>>> strong, real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to
>>> cry out against a bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the
>>> people and by the people phrase and rather treats us as subjects.
>>> That might work for you queen lovers across the pond:) but not so
>>> much here.  Something about a small skirmish back in 1776 or so.
>>> 
>>> I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything,
>>> especially to circumvent security whether it’s good security or not.
>>> 
>>> As always though, well presented and thank you for the thought provoker.
>>> 
>>> I like both sides on this.  I’m encouraged so many support protection
>>> of the 4th amendment but I also welcome the chance to discuss with
>>> someone who feels the opposite.
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > wrote:
 
 OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I
 think, even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.
 
 I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore
 don’t enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this case.
 Nor do I believe that the U.S. sovereignty is indicative of any real
 trend; at best it is a matter for western “Democracies”, and I
 daresay you can guess how I feel about those.  I don’t even believe
 the U.S. is safe, given what we now know is possible, following the
 revelation of the specifics.
 
 This article, by a Canadian, captures my feelings very well:
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/
 
 In summary, I agree with the judge.  I believe this was a PR campaign
 intended to attract public support for Apple’s business practices,
 regardless of Cook’s genuine ethical alignment on the issue.  I
 believe Apple would have acceded to the demands, had they been filed
 under seal, as Apple had initially requested, and that Apple’s plea
 was necessary as a response to the FBI’s refusal.  I think this
 firmware hack qualifies as legal assistance—particularly horrible
 legal assistance, but assistance nevertheless, made more than
 possible by the ineffectual security of these devices—and that the
 case for proper security far exceeds any question of legal precedent,
 particularly when the 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[E.T.]

   All I will say to this is that this country was not founded on 
biblical principles.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 2/22/2016 9:09 AM, CHUCK REICHEL wrote:

Hi Scott,
I agree 1776 was a great year!
This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the
borders and through out all the illegals in the USA!
Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not
politically correct and we dig it!
I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
HTH

Chuck

CHUCK REICHEL
soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com 
www.SoundPictureRecording.com 
954-742-0019
Isaiah 26 : 3
  Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
because he trusteth in thee.

In GOD I Trust

On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:


Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though
really well made by the way.

The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s
come out in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local
coverage is reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their
possession and Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as
well ad decrypt anything etc.

Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands
for Fat, Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying
to scare us in to submission.

You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for
strong, real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to
cry out against a bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the
people and by the people phrase and rather treats us as subjects.
 That might work for you queen lovers across the pond:) but not so
much here.  Something about a small skirmish back in 1776 or so.

I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything,
especially to circumvent security whether it’s good security or not.

As always though, well presented and thank you for the thought provoker.

I like both sides on this.  I’m encouraged so many support protection
of the 4th amendment but I also welcome the chance to discuss with
someone who feels the opposite.

Thank you



On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > wrote:

OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I
think, even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.

I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore
don’t enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this case.
 Nor do I believe that the U.S. sovereignty is indicative of any real
trend; at best it is a matter for western “Democracies”, and I
daresay you can guess how I feel about those.  I don’t even believe
the U.S. is safe, given what we now know is possible, following the
revelation of the specifics.

This article, by a Canadian, captures my feelings very well:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/

In summary, I agree with the judge.  I believe this was a PR campaign
intended to attract public support for Apple’s business practices,
regardless of Cook’s genuine ethical alignment on the issue.  I
believe Apple would have acceded to the demands, had they been filed
under seal, as Apple had initially requested, and that Apple’s plea
was necessary as a response to the FBI’s refusal.  I think this
firmware hack qualifies as legal assistance—particularly horrible
legal assistance, but assistance nevertheless, made more than
possible by the ineffectual security of these devices—and that the
case for proper security far exceeds any question of legal precedent,
particularly when the search was legitimate and would otherwise have
been authorised without Apple’s assistance.  Clearly, the fact that
the judiciary can ask for the data is the vulnerability here, and not
that they can compel a manufacturer to exploit a weakness in their
products.

Therefore, the only defence is cryptography; anything less is mere
security by obscurity.  We must have cryptography that works, is
provable and is verifiable.  The iPhone does not provide this: Apple
maintains the key for the software upgrade process, and that process
exposes the weakness of the cryptography now in use to any person in
possession of it, including but not limited to the U.S. judiciary
courtesy of Apple itself.  Between Apple’s hubris and the need for
user convenience, Apple is using the court to defend the
indefensible, and are fighting entirely the wrong fight.  We need
cryptography, under our control, and without the threat of trivial
circumvention.  Until this changes, Apple’s appeal to the court and
the public is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.

So Apple should accede to the FBI, as ordered.  It’s the best 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Scott,
I agree 1776 was a great year!
This discussion wouldn't be taking place if we  had "locked down" the borders 
and through out all the illegals in the USA!
Thats correct I & the majority of the heartland of the USA are not politically 
correct and we dig it!
I'd rather be "biblically Correct" than politically correct any day!
Thank GOD for the second amendment! :)
HTH

Chuck

CHUCK REICHEL
soundpicturerecord...@gmail.com
www.SoundPictureRecording.com
954-742-0019
Isaiah 26 : 3
 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he 
trusteth in thee.

In GOD I Trust

On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

> Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though really 
> well made by the way.
> 
> The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s come out 
> in the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local coverage is 
> reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their possession and 
> Apple is now being asked to reconstruct that data as well ad decrypt anything 
> etc.
> 
> Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands for Fat, 
> Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying to scare us in 
> to submission.
> 
> You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for strong, 
> real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to cry out against a 
> bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the people and by the people 
> phrase and rather treats us as subjects.  That might work for you queen 
> lovers across the pond:) but not so much here.  Something about a small 
> skirmish back in 1776 or so.
> 
> I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything, especially to 
> circumvent security whether it’s good security or not.
> 
> As always though, well presented and thank you for the thought provoker.
> 
> I like both sides on this.  I’m encouraged so many support protection of the 
> 4th amendment but I also welcome the chance to discuss with someone who feels 
> the opposite.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I think, 
>> even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.
>> 
>> I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore don’t 
>> enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this case.  Nor do I 
>> believe that the U.S. sovereignty is indicative of any real trend; at best 
>> it is a matter for western “Democracies”, and I daresay you can guess how I 
>> feel about those.  I don’t even believe the U.S. is safe, given what we now 
>> know is possible, following the revelation of the specifics.
>> 
>> This article, by a Canadian, captures my feelings very well:
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/
>> 
>> In summary, I agree with the judge.  I believe this was a PR campaign 
>> intended to attract public support for Apple’s business practices, 
>> regardless of Cook’s genuine ethical alignment on the issue.  I believe 
>> Apple would have acceded to the demands, had they been filed under seal, as 
>> Apple had initially requested, and that Apple’s plea was necessary as a 
>> response to the FBI’s refusal.  I think this firmware hack qualifies as 
>> legal assistance—particularly horrible legal assistance, but assistance 
>> nevertheless, made more than possible by the ineffectual security of these 
>> devices—and that the case for proper security far exceeds any question of 
>> legal precedent, particularly when the search was legitimate and would 
>> otherwise have been authorised without Apple’s assistance.  Clearly, the 
>> fact that the judiciary can ask for the data is the vulnerability here, and 
>> not that they can compel a manufacturer to exploit a weakness in their 
>> products.
>> 
>> Therefore, the only defence is cryptography; anything less is mere security 
>> by obscurity.  We must have cryptography that works, is provable and is 
>> verifiable.  The iPhone does not provide this: Apple maintains the key for 
>> the software upgrade process, and that process exposes the weakness of the 
>> cryptography now in use to any person in possession of it, including but not 
>> limited to the U.S. judiciary courtesy of Apple itself.  Between Apple’s 
>> hubris and the need for user convenience, Apple is using the court to defend 
>> the indefensible, and are fighting entirely the wrong fight.  We need 
>> cryptography, under our control, and without the threat of trivial 
>> circumvention.  Until this changes, Apple’s appeal to the court and the 
>> public is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.
>> 
>> So Apple should accede to the FBI, as ordered.  It’s the best thing that 
>> privacy advocates could hope for.  Next time, Apple will have got it right, 
>> and their responses to requests for 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

Just one thing that to me puts a whole in your argument all though really well 
made by the way.

The FBI actually reset the phone while in it’s possession.  So it’s come out in 
the US news, KGO radio specifically as part of their local coverage is 
reporting that the FBI hard reset the phone while in their possession and Apple 
is now being asked to reconstruct that data as well ad decrypt anything etc.

Personally this just indicates what I’ve always believed, FBI stands for Fat, 
Bald and Ignorant.  These are bulls in a china closet trying to scare us in to 
submission.

You make strong points and I whole heartedly support your cries for strong, 
real cryptography under nobody’s control but I also have to cry out against a 
bumbling government that doesn’t respect the for the people and by the people 
phrase and rather treats us as subjects.  That might work for you queen lovers 
across the pond:) but not so much here.  Something about a small skirmish back 
in 1776 or so.

I just get very nervous when the government asks for anything, especially to 
circumvent security whether it’s good security or not.

As always though, well presented and thank you for the thought provoker.

I like both sides on this.  I’m encouraged so many support protection of the 
4th amendment but I also welcome the chance to discuss with someone who feels 
the opposite.

Thank you
 

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I think, 
> even if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.
> 
> I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore don’t 
> enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this case.  Nor do I 
> believe that the U.S. sovereignty is indicative of any real trend; at best it 
> is a matter for western “Democracies”, and I daresay you can guess how I feel 
> about those.  I don’t even believe the U.S. is safe, given what we now know 
> is possible, following the revelation of the specifics.
> 
> This article, by a Canadian, captures my feelings very well:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/
> 
> In summary, I agree with the judge.  I believe this was a PR campaign 
> intended to attract public support for Apple’s business practices, regardless 
> of Cook’s genuine ethical alignment on the issue.  I believe Apple would have 
> acceded to the demands, had they been filed under seal, as Apple had 
> initially requested, and that Apple’s plea was necessary as a response to the 
> FBI’s refusal.  I think this firmware hack qualifies as legal 
> assistance—particularly horrible legal assistance, but assistance 
> nevertheless, made more than possible by the ineffectual security of these 
> devices—and that the case for proper security far exceeds any question of 
> legal precedent, particularly when the search was legitimate and would 
> otherwise have been authorised without Apple’s assistance.  Clearly, the fact 
> that the judiciary can ask for the data is the vulnerability here, and not 
> that they can compel a manufacturer to exploit a weakness in their products.
> 
> Therefore, the only defence is cryptography; anything less is mere security 
> by obscurity.  We must have cryptography that works, is provable and is 
> verifiable.  The iPhone does not provide this: Apple maintains the key for 
> the software upgrade process, and that process exposes the weakness of the 
> cryptography now in use to any person in possession of it, including but not 
> limited to the U.S. judiciary courtesy of Apple itself.  Between Apple’s 
> hubris and the need for user convenience, Apple is using the court to defend 
> the indefensible, and are fighting entirely the wrong fight.  We need 
> cryptography, under our control, and without the threat of trivial 
> circumvention.  Until this changes, Apple’s appeal to the court and the 
> public is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.
> 
> So Apple should accede to the FBI, as ordered.  It’s the best thing that 
> privacy advocates could hope for.  Next time, Apple will have got it right, 
> and their responses to requests for legal assistance will be much shorter.
> 
> There!  Don’t you feel much better now? :)
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

OK, so I think it’s safe to come out of the woodwork and say what I think, even 
if it rocks the boat a bit and ruins a good love-in.

I should qualify first by saying that I’m not American and therefore don’t 
enjoy the benefits of whatever “Precedent” is set by this case.  Nor do I 
believe that the U.S. sovereignty is indicative of any real trend; at best it 
is a matter for western “Democracies”, and I daresay you can guess how I feel 
about those.  I don’t even believe the U.S. is safe, given what we now know is 
possible, following the revelation of the specifics.

This article, by a Canadian, captures my feelings very well:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/17/why_tim_cook_is_wrong_a_privacy_advocates_view/

In summary, I agree with the judge.  I believe this was a PR campaign intended 
to attract public support for Apple’s business practices, regardless of Cook’s 
genuine ethical alignment on the issue.  I believe Apple would have acceded to 
the demands, had they been filed under seal, as Apple had initially requested, 
and that Apple’s plea was necessary as a response to the FBI’s refusal.  I 
think this firmware hack qualifies as legal assistance—particularly horrible 
legal assistance, but assistance nevertheless, made more than possible by the 
ineffectual security of these devices—and that the case for proper security far 
exceeds any question of legal precedent, particularly when the search was 
legitimate and would otherwise have been authorised without Apple’s assistance. 
 Clearly, the fact that the judiciary can ask for the data is the vulnerability 
here, and not that they can compel a manufacturer to exploit a weakness in 
their products.

Therefore, the only defence is cryptography; anything less is mere security by 
obscurity.  We must have cryptography that works, is provable and is 
verifiable.  The iPhone does not provide this: Apple maintains the key for the 
software upgrade process, and that process exposes the weakness of the 
cryptography now in use to any person in possession of it, including but not 
limited to the U.S. judiciary courtesy of Apple itself.  Between Apple’s hubris 
and the need for user convenience, Apple is using the court to defend the 
indefensible, and are fighting entirely the wrong fight.  We need cryptography, 
under our control, and without the threat of trivial circumvention.  Until this 
changes, Apple’s appeal to the court and the public is naive at best and 
disingenuous at worst.

So Apple should accede to the FBI, as ordered.  It’s the best thing that 
privacy advocates could hope for.  Next time, Apple will have got it right, and 
their responses to requests for legal assistance will be much shorter.

There!  Don’t you feel much better now? :)

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

No you raise good questions.

It’s a single finger print reader uncle the home button.  On the 6S it was 
upgraded and is very very fast but it’s worked reliably now for me in all 
versions since release.

You can scan up to 5 individual fingers and it’s advised you scan one from each 
hand in case you lose a hand or finger.  (seriously)

The process is you rest your finger on the reader and it unlocks the phone or 
works with applications.

Yes, you have up to 10 scans or 10 times to enter your passcode or some 
combination of.

You could grab a finger and hold it to the scanner but you can also remotely 
wipe the phone so that’s of limited value.



> On Feb 22, 2016, at 10:47 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Trump has everything and nothing at the same time. Boggles my mind those 
> who follow him.
> 
>   Back to fingerprints. I do not have a 6 do am curious. How does this work? 
> A single finger? Any one of the 10? How many tries does one have? Surely not 
> 10. I see a cretin knocking you down and choosing a finger to unlock the 
> phone then run off with it.
> 
>   Ok its Monday and I need coffee. (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 2/22/2016 5:33 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> Just as an FYI, he has both a Samsung phone and an iPhone.:)
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu >> 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello.
>>> 
>>> I really like your explanation and how you put it in simple terms.
>>> You are absolutely right so it is best that Apple stuck to their guns
>>> and not let FBI or that stupid Trump who wants to become president of
>>> the US tell anyone what to do.  I even bet that trump has an I phone.
>>> Sorry for bringing that Trump up, but he irritates me even though I’m
>>> not a US citizen, he gets on my nerves.  I know I shouldn’t say this
>>> but he talks a lot of nonsense in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
 On 20 Feb 2016, at 20:41, Tyler Thompson 
 >> 
 wrote:
 
 So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a
 Certified Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and
 certifications in regards to cryptography, steganography and cyber
 security. I don’t bring this up to brag but instead to outline that
 I’m speaking from a place of experience. In this letter
 > to us, the customers Tim Cook
 does a decent job of outlining the issue.
 
 I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single
 phone apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your
 data, and, what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s
 no such thing as a backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent
 security measures, and one that Apple has implemented is to ensure
 that nobody again *nobody* has access to secured data, including
 Apple themselves. When I’m contracted out to build secure apps or
 websites I do the same thing, for example, once a password has been
 created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain access to that
 users account.
 
 In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the
 operating system. This means every iOS operating system would become
 vulnerable to both malicious hackers and our government. But let me
 give it to you in an analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home.
 Now imagine that your home is in a bad neighborhood and is a
 high-profile home. So the FBI comes along and asks you to please
 smash out one of your own windows in broad daylight. When you say it
 lowers the security of your home the answer is “Well it’s ok, thieves
 in the area don’t know which window you smashed out.”
 
 I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their
 accessibility, I love their products but knowing about cyber security
 I can guarantee you right now that if they build this backdoor I will
 immediately stop using apple products.
 
 You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating
 system that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not
 enough for you? What about your keychain? You know, the one where you
 store all your passwords for things like your bank account.
 
 We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but
 I’m here to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your
 security it’s done and the product will never be as secure again.
 
 Tyler K. Thompson
 
 -Software Engineer
 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[E.T.]

   Trump has everything and nothing at the same time. Boggles my mind 
those who follow him.


   Back to fingerprints. I do not have a 6 do am curious. How does this 
work? A single finger? Any one of the 10? How many tries does one have? 
Surely not 10. I see a cretin knocking you down and choosing a finger to 
unlock the phone then run off with it.


   Ok its Monday and I need coffee. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 2/22/2016 5:33 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Just as an FYI, he has both a Samsung phone and an iPhone.:)


On Feb 20, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu > wrote:

Hello.

I really like your explanation and how you put it in simple terms.
 You are absolutely right so it is best that Apple stuck to their guns
and not let FBI or that stupid Trump who wants to become president of
the US tell anyone what to do.  I even bet that trump has an I phone.
 Sorry for bringing that Trump up, but he irritates me even though I’m
not a US citizen, he gets on my nerves.  I know I shouldn’t say this
but he talks a lot of nonsense in my opinion.

Kawal.

On 20 Feb 2016, at 20:41, Tyler Thompson > wrote:

So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a
Certified Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and
certifications in regards to cryptography, steganography and cyber
security. I don’t bring this up to brag but instead to outline that
I’m speaking from a place of experience. In this letter
 to us, the customers Tim Cook
does a decent job of outlining the issue.

I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single
phone apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your
data, and, what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s
no such thing as a backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent
security measures, and one that Apple has implemented is to ensure
that nobody again *nobody* has access to secured data, including
Apple themselves. When I’m contracted out to build secure apps or
websites I do the same thing, for example, once a password has been
created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain access to that
users account.

In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the
operating system. This means every iOS operating system would become
vulnerable to both malicious hackers and our government. But let me
give it to you in an analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home.
Now imagine that your home is in a bad neighborhood and is a
high-profile home. So the FBI comes along and asks you to please
smash out one of your own windows in broad daylight. When you say it
lowers the security of your home the answer is “Well it’s ok, thieves
in the area don’t know which window you smashed out.”

I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their
accessibility, I love their products but knowing about cyber security
I can guarantee you right now that if they build this backdoor I will
immediately stop using apple products.

You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating
system that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not
enough for you? What about your keychain? You know, the one where you
store all your passwords for things like your bank account.

We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but
I’m here to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your
security it’s done and the product will never be as secure again.

Tyler K. Thompson

-Software Engineer


On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen > wrote:

ok,
the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the
device. Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still
available, and that were the only method of encryption, then the FBI
already has its problem solved. If, however, there was a secondary
method (like a passcode) used, then it becomes a lot harder to get
into the device. Note: I did not say impossible.

Now, apple can develop a method by which they can access the phone.
they aren't required to publish it nor to provide it to law
enforcement. all they need to do is provide a technician who knows
the method (and has the program). since that program will not be
turned over to the FBI, there is essentially no problem. Apple would
retain custody of the program and the method and law enforcement
would have to follow the law (file a warrant, etc.). At this point,
there would be no back door to exploit To further secure it, I would
props that the program be placed on a specialized (and isolated)
device. THis device cannot be plugged into any network and would
also require the use of a password (only known to apple) to work.

does this sound like a decent proposal?

-eric

On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Simon 

Re: battery in Apple TV remote?

[Scott Granados]

Ah, you want 4K, got ya.

Sounds reasonable, I’m not sure why this version didn’t have 4K, that didn’t 
make sense to me.

> On Feb 22, 2016, at 8:59 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> I read that the fifth gen will support the new high res TVs.  I don't care 
> about that, but my husband does, so we decided to just hold off for now.  I'm 
> looking forward to upgrading though.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:21 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> 4th gen is worth upgrading Dona if you still feel like it.  I have one and 
>> love mine.
>> 
>> Only thing it needs is bluetooth keyboard support which I understand is 
>> upcoming.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, I was just looking at it trying to figure out how to open it.  Nice 
>>> that the 4th gen charges via the lightning cable.  We almost upgraded this 
>>> year, but decided to hold out for the 5th gen.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Feb 21, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
 
 The Apple TV 3 appears to have a watch-style battery. I haven't tried it 
 either, but take a coin to the slot in the center of the non-button side 
 of the remote and try pushing in and turning left. This should open the 
 cover, but again, I haven't personally tried it.
 
 The Apple TV 4 remote is charged via the included Lightning cable, or the 
 cable for any Lightning iOS device, as I recall.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Feb 21, 2016, at 09:12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm noticing that the remote for our Apple TV doesn't seem to have it's 
> usual range, so am thinking that the battery must need changing.  Has 
> anyone ever done this?  Can the user change it or does it have to go to 
> an apple store?  I'm also assuming from the shape of the remote that it 
> isn't a standard battery?  If I'm right, where does one obtain the 
> correct battery?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Danny,

Thanks for responding.  As I said, when I started using an iPhone, these things 
didn't exist.  Consequently, I've never really thought about them until now.  I 
confess that I dislike the thought of turning my nice, smooth iPhone into 
something, well, not nice and smooth, but I may try it.  Faster typing would be 
nice, I'm probably about like Erik, maybe 20 WPM.

Thanks also for sharing your preference for the advanced version.  On the one 
hand, if faster typing is what I'm after, it seems like it would be nice to 
have all the letters.  But I can also see where that might bake the overlay too 
crowded.
Cheers,
Donna  
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 4:06 AM, Danny Noonan  wrote:
> 
> I concidder myself a power user and although I can certainly use I devices 
> without a speed dots on I do definately prefer the tactile. My wife and I use 
> the advanced as the f and j home keys are enough. The entire keyboard minus 
> home keys is harder to use IMO. The back edit 5 on the num pad etc just give 
> quick reference points that help me find buttons that much quicker. Personal 
> preference but my typing with tactile home keys is much faster along with 
> general movement and orientation on the screen. 
> If you decide only beginners need tactile screen covers then your not being 
> open minded. Try it out and decide. 
> 
> Danny
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 22 Feb 2016, at 8:38 PM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi Erik,
>> 
>> I suspect I would feel the same way, though I am thinking about giving one a 
>> try just to see if I like it.  Typing speed would be the one real advantage 
>> I could see.  Mostly I just use Siri and dictate, but it does seem like 
>> being able to actually type more quickly, say if you're in a noisy 
>> environment, could be handy.  Thanks for sharing your reaction.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:14 AM, erik burggraaf >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,  I saw several when I was training extensively.  I found it very 
>>> distracting after learning without.  On the other hand,  I've read user 
>>> claims of 80 wpm typing speed when learning to type with a tactile screen 
>>> protecter.  I'm certainly nowhere near that.  15 or 20 wpm at best and 
>>> thank goodness for completion suggestions and spelling corrections.  Maybe 
>>> I missed the boat on tactile screen protectors but it certainly doesn't 
>>> feel that way when I pick up my devices.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Erik Burggraaf
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin > wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my 
 first iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, came 
 out.  At that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile cover, 
 so I learned to use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear from 
 those of you who do use them.  Which one do you use?  Have you always use 
 a tactile cover?  If not, do you feel like using one improves your speed 
 on the iPhone?
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Donna Goodin]

I would wonder about that too, Krister.  If I do decide to try one, I'll report 
back on it.
Cheers,
Donna 
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 4:36 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Just a question out of curiosity, doesn’t a tactile screen protector make it 
> harder to say move icons around on the screen? I mean that moving sorta 
> depends on you holding down your fingers and as i understand it, that screen 
> protector looks like a grid.
> /Krister
> 
>> 22 feb. 2016 kl. 10:38 skrev Donna Goodin > >:
>> 
>> Hi Erik,
>> 
>> I suspect I would feel the same way, though I am thinking about giving one a 
>> try just to see if I like it.  Typing speed would be the one real advantage 
>> I could see.  Mostly I just use Siri and dictate, but it does seem like 
>> being able to actually type more quickly, say if you're in a noisy 
>> environment, could be handy.  Thanks for sharing your reaction.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:14 AM, erik burggraaf >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,  I saw several when I was training extensively.  I found it very 
>>> distracting after learning without.  On the other hand,  I've read user 
>>> claims of 80 wpm typing speed when learning to type with a tactile screen 
>>> protecter.  I'm certainly nowhere near that.  15 or 20 wpm at best and 
>>> thank goodness for completion suggestions and spelling corrections.  Maybe 
>>> I missed the boat on tactile screen protectors but it certainly doesn't 
>>> feel that way when I pick up my devices.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Erik Burggraaf
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin > wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my 
 first iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, came 
 out.  At that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile cover, 
 so I learned to use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear from 
 those of you who do use them.  Which one do you use?  Have you always use 
 a tactile cover?  If not, do you feel like using one improves your speed 
 on the iPhone?
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: battery in Apple TV remote?

[Donna Goodin]

I read that the fifth gen will support the new high res TVs.  I don't care 
about that, but my husband does, so we decided to just hold off for now.  I'm 
looking forward to upgrading though.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:21 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> 4th gen is worth upgrading Dona if you still feel like it.  I have one and 
> love mine.
> 
> Only thing it needs is bluetooth keyboard support which I understand is 
> upcoming.
> 
> 
>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, I was just looking at it trying to figure out how to open it.  Nice 
>> that the 4th gen charges via the lightning cable.  We almost upgraded this 
>> year, but decided to hold out for the 5th gen.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Apple TV 3 appears to have a watch-style battery. I haven't tried it 
>>> either, but take a coin to the slot in the center of the non-button side of 
>>> the remote and try pushing in and turning left. This should open the cover, 
>>> but again, I haven't personally tried it.
>>> 
>>> The Apple TV 4 remote is charged via the included Lightning cable, or the 
>>> cable for any Lightning iOS device, as I recall.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Feb 21, 2016, at 09:12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I'm noticing that the remote for our Apple TV doesn't seem to have it's 
 usual range, so am thinking that the battery must need changing.  Has 
 anyone ever done this?  Can the user change it or does it have to go to an 
 apple store?  I'm also assuming from the shape of the remote that it isn't 
 a standard battery?  If I'm right, where does one obtain the correct 
 battery?
 TIA,
 Donna
 
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Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

Agreed, I’m surprised there is no mention of this on any of the other platform 
lists.  Google is as vulnerable to this as Apple if the government sets it’s 
mind to it.

What about all the plants as well?  Juniper Networks and Cisco have both 
recently suffered from having NSA plants inject back doors in to their source 
code for cracking VPN tunnels.


> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:39 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> The focus on "one device" is a diversion. For a back door to be effective the 
> FBI needs to be sure that every phone has the compromised security system 
> because they can't know ahead of time which phone they might need to get 
> unlocked. That opens the door for any interested party with legitimate or 
> illegitimate influence to get the key from Apple. Sooner or later that key 
> will slip out into the wild or someone will fabricate their own. So the 
> emphasis about this being just for this one case is really not tenable.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 2/20/16 4:56 PM, Tyler Thompson wrote:
>> It’s a pipe dream. Without going into crazy technical detail you’re talking 
>> about either bypassing or giving up their cryptographic private key, the 
>> moment you do that it’s all over, for 1 device or for a million devices. 
>> Unlike, say, a firewall where you can open a port to 1 specific device based 
>> on MAC address, let it get it’s information then close it off again. This is 
>> a different concept.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> hmmm. good points.
>>> now, I am not a crypto specialist. I am a basic IT/security tech. my thing 
>>> is firewalls, intrusion detection and disinfection
>>> 
>>> There has to be a way where apple doesn't have to give up security and 
>>> still allow the FBI access to that one device (without compromising all 
>>> others). Is this possible or am I smoking a real pipe dream here?
>>> 
>>> -eric
>>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Tyler Thompson wrote:
>>> 
 So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a Certified 
 Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and certifications in regards 
 to cryptography, steganography and cyber security. I don’t bring this up 
 to brag but instead to outline that I’m speaking from a place of 
 experience. In this letter to us, the customers Tim Cook does a decent job 
 of outlining the issue.
 
 I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single phone 
 apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your data, and, 
 what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s no such thing as 
 a backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent security measures, and 
 one that Apple has implemented is to ensure that nobody again nobody has 
 access to secured data, including Apple themselves. When I’m contracted 
 out to build secure apps or websites I do the same thing, for example, 
 once a password has been created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain 
 access to that users account.
 
 In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the operating 
 system. This means every iOS operating system would become vulnerable to 
 both malicious hackers and our government. But let me give it to you in an 
 analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home. Now imagine that your home 
 is in a bad neighborhood and is a high-profile home. So the FBI comes 
 along and asks you to please smash out one of your own windows in broad 
 daylight. When you say it lowers the security of your home the answer is 
 “Well it’s ok, thieves in the area don’t know which window you smashed 
 out.”
 
 I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their accessibility, 
 I love their products but knowing about cyber security I can guarantee you 
 right now that if they build this backdoor I will immediately stop using 
 apple products.
 
 You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating system 
 that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not enough for 
 you? What about your keychain? You know, the one where you store all your 
 passwords for things like your bank account.
 
 We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but I’m 
 here to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your security 
 it’s done and the product will never be as secure again.
 
 Tyler K. Thompson
 
-Software Engineer
 
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> ok,
> the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the device. 
> Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still available, and that 
> were the only method of encryption, then the FBI already has its problem 
> solved. If, however, there was a 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

No, the supreme court could be the final word.  In that case I would m one 
apple’s headquarters out of America to say South Africa and give the FBI the 
finger but that’s me.

You bring up the Supreme court, one of the justices most likely to support 
Apple’s position just died and there’s a 4/4 split now so it’s not likely Apple 
would be in front of the supreme court for at least 2 years and by then who 
knows what the make up will be.


> On Feb 20, 2016, at 6:09 PM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> 
> Ok, thanks for the information. If FBI takes the case upp to supreme court 
> and wins, do apple still have a owners right to decide? Its still their legal 
> product.
> 
> Take care
> 
> 20. feb. 2016 kl. 22:56 skrev Tyler Thompson :
> 
> It’s a pipe dream. Without going into crazy technical detail you’re talking 
> about either bypassing or giving up their cryptographic private key, the 
> moment you do that it’s all over, for 1 device or for a million devices. 
> Unlike, say, a firewall where you can open a port to 1 specific device based 
> on MAC address, let it get it’s information then close it off again. This is 
> a different concept.
> 
> 
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>> 
>> hmmm. good points. 
>> now, I am not a crypto specialist. I am a basic IT/security tech. my thing 
>> is firewalls, intrusion detection and disinfection
>> 
>> There has to be a way where apple doesn't have to give up security and still 
>> allow the FBI access to that one device (without compromising all others). 
>> Is this possible or am I smoking a real pipe dream here?
>> 
>> -eric
>> 
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Tyler Thompson wrote:
>> 
>>> So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a Certified 
>>> Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and certifications in regards to 
>>> cryptography, steganography and cyber security. I don’t bring this up to 
>>> brag but instead to outline that I’m speaking from a place of experience. 
>>> In this letter to us, the customers Tim Cook does a decent job of outlining 
>>> the issue.
>>> 
>>> I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single phone 
>>> apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your data, and, 
>>> what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s no such thing as 
>>> a backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent security measures, and one 
>>> that Apple has implemented is to ensure that nobody again nobody has access 
>>> to secured data, including Apple themselves. When I’m contracted out to 
>>> build secure apps or websites I do the same thing, for example, once a 
>>> password has been created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain access 
>>> to that users account.
>>> 
>>> In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the operating 
>>> system. This means every iOS operating system would become vulnerable to 
>>> both malicious hackers and our government. But let me give it to you in an 
>>> analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home. Now imagine that your home 
>>> is in a bad neighborhood and is a high-profile home. So the FBI comes along 
>>> and asks you to please smash out one of your own windows in broad daylight. 
>>> When you say it lowers the security of your home the answer is “Well it’s 
>>> ok, thieves in the area don’t know which window you smashed out.”
>>> 
>>> I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their accessibility, 
>>> I love their products but knowing about cyber security I can guarantee you 
>>> right now that if they build this backdoor I will immediately stop using 
>>> apple products.
>>> 
>>> You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating system 
>>> that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not enough for you? 
>>> What about your keychain? You know, the one where you store all your 
>>> passwords for things like your bank account. 
>>> 
>>> We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but I’m 
>>> here to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your security 
>>> it’s done and the product will never be as secure again.
>>> 
>>> Tyler K. Thompson
>>> 
>>> -Software Engineer
>>> 
 On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
 
 ok,
 the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the device. 
 Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still available, and that 
 were the only method of encryption, then the FBI already has its problem 
 solved. If, however, there was a secondary method (like a passcode) used, 
 then it becomes a lot harder to get into the device. Note: I did not say 
 impossible.
 
 Now, apple can develop a method by which they can access the phone. they 
 aren't required to publish it nor to provide it to law enforcement. all 
 they need to do is provide a technician who 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

Once you break the cypher you break the cypher so I can’t think of a way to 
break one phone only with out risking that mechanism getting out in the wild.

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 4:52 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> hmmm. good points. 
> now, I am not a crypto specialist. I am a basic IT/security tech. my thing is 
> firewalls, intrusion detection and disinfection
> 
> There has to be a way where apple doesn't have to give up security and still 
> allow the FBI access to that one device (without compromising all others). Is 
> this possible or am I smoking a real pipe dream here?
> 
> -eric
> 
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Tyler Thompson wrote:
> 
>> So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a Certified 
>> Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and certifications in regards to 
>> cryptography, steganography and cyber security. I don’t bring this up to 
>> brag but instead to outline that I’m speaking from a place of experience. In 
>> this letter to us, the customers Tim Cook does a decent job of outlining the 
>> issue.
>> 
>> I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single phone 
>> apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your data, and, 
>> what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s no such thing as a 
>> backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent security measures, and one 
>> that Apple has implemented is to ensure that nobody again nobody has access 
>> to secured data, including Apple themselves. When I’m contracted out to 
>> build secure apps or websites I do the same thing, for example, once a 
>> password has been created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain access 
>> to that users account.
>> 
>> In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the operating 
>> system. This means every iOS operating system would become vulnerable to 
>> both malicious hackers and our government. But let me give it to you in an 
>> analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home. Now imagine that your home is 
>> in a bad neighborhood and is a high-profile home. So the FBI comes along and 
>> asks you to please smash out one of your own windows in broad daylight. When 
>> you say it lowers the security of your home the answer is “Well it’s ok, 
>> thieves in the area don’t know which window you smashed out.”
>> 
>> I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their accessibility, I 
>> love their products but knowing about cyber security I can guarantee you 
>> right now that if they build this backdoor I will immediately stop using 
>> apple products.
>> 
>> You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating system 
>> that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not enough for you? 
>> What about your keychain? You know, the one where you store all your 
>> passwords for things like your bank account. 
>> 
>> We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but I’m here 
>> to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your security it’s 
>> done and the product will never be as secure again.
>> 
>> Tyler K. Thompson
>> 
>>  -Software Engineer
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> ok,
>>> the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the device. 
>>> Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still available, and that 
>>> were the only method of encryption, then the FBI already has its problem 
>>> solved. If, however, there was a secondary method (like a passcode) used, 
>>> then it becomes a lot harder to get into the device. Note: I did not say 
>>> impossible.
>>> 
>>> Now, apple can develop a method by which they can access the phone. they 
>>> aren't required to publish it nor to provide it to law enforcement. all 
>>> they need to do is provide a technician who knows the method (and has the 
>>> program). since that program will not be turned over to the FBI, there is 
>>> essentially no problem. Apple would retain custody of the program and the 
>>> method and law enforcement would have to follow the law (file a warrant, 
>>> etc.). At this point, there would be no back door to exploit To further 
>>> secure it, I would props that the program be placed on a specialized (and 
>>> isolated) device. THis device cannot be plugged into any network and would 
>>> also require the use of a password (only known to apple) to work.
>>> 
>>> does this sound like a decent proposal?
>>> 
>>> -eric
>>> 
>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>>> 
 I agree,
 
 It's not just terrorist that this will effect it's all IOS device users.
 
 A back door access to one device is a back door to all devices of that 
 type.
 
 Iargree
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of George Cham
 Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 9:21 PM
 To: 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

Just as an FYI, he has both a Samsung phone and an iPhone.:)

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> I really like your explanation and how you put it in simple terms.  You are 
> absolutely right so it is best that Apple stuck to their guns and not let FBI 
> or that stupid Trump who wants to become president of the US tell anyone what 
> to do.  I even bet that trump has an I phone.  Sorry for bringing that Trump 
> up, but he irritates me even though I’m not a US citizen, he gets on my 
> nerves.  I know I shouldn’t say this but he talks a lot of nonsense in my 
> opinion.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 20 Feb 2016, at 20:41, Tyler Thompson > > wrote:
>> 
>> So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a Certified 
>> Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and certifications in regards to 
>> cryptography, steganography and cyber security. I don’t bring this up to 
>> brag but instead to outline that I’m speaking from a place of experience. In 
>> this letter  to us, the customers Tim 
>> Cook does a decent job of outlining the issue.
>> 
>> I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single phone 
>> apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your data, and, 
>> what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s no such thing as a 
>> backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent security measures, and one 
>> that Apple has implemented is to ensure that nobody again nobody has access 
>> to secured data, including Apple themselves. When I’m contracted out to 
>> build secure apps or websites I do the same thing, for example, once a 
>> password has been created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain access 
>> to that users account.
>> 
>> In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the operating 
>> system. This means every iOS operating system would become vulnerable to 
>> both malicious hackers and our government. But let me give it to you in an 
>> analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home. Now imagine that your home is 
>> in a bad neighborhood and is a high-profile home. So the FBI comes along and 
>> asks you to please smash out one of your own windows in broad daylight. When 
>> you say it lowers the security of your home the answer is “Well it’s ok, 
>> thieves in the area don’t know which window you smashed out.”
>> 
>> I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their accessibility, I 
>> love their products but knowing about cyber security I can guarantee you 
>> right now that if they build this backdoor I will immediately stop using 
>> apple products.
>> 
>> You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating system 
>> that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not enough for you? 
>> What about your keychain? You know, the one where you store all your 
>> passwords for things like your bank account. 
>> 
>> We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but I’m here 
>> to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your security it’s 
>> done and the product will never be as secure again.
>> 
>> Tyler K. Thompson
>> 
>>  -Software Engineer
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> ok,
>>> the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the device. 
>>> Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still available, and that 
>>> were the only method of encryption, then the FBI already has its problem 
>>> solved. If, however, there was a secondary method (like a passcode) used, 
>>> then it becomes a lot harder to get into the device. Note: I did not say 
>>> impossible.
>>> 
>>> Now, apple can develop a method by which they can access the phone. they 
>>> aren't required to publish it nor to provide it to law enforcement. all 
>>> they need to do is provide a technician who knows the method (and has the 
>>> program). since that program will not be turned over to the FBI, there is 
>>> essentially no problem. Apple would retain custody of the program and the 
>>> method and law enforcement would have to follow the law (file a warrant, 
>>> etc.). At this point, there would be no back door to exploit To further 
>>> secure it, I would props that the program be placed on a specialized (and 
>>> isolated) device. THis device cannot be plugged into any network and would 
>>> also require the use of a password (only known to apple) to work.
>>> 
>>> does this sound like a decent proposal?
>>> 
>>> -eric
>>> 
>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>>> 
 I agree,
 
 It's not just terrorist that this will effect it's all IOS device users.
 
 A back door access to one device is a back door to all devices of that 
 type.
 
 Iargree
 
 
 -Original Message-

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

+1, said better than I ever could.  I feel like trumpeting this from the roof 
tops.


Well said!

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 3:41 PM, Tyler Thompson  wrote:
> 
> So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a Certified 
> Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and certifications in regards to 
> cryptography, steganography and cyber security. I don’t bring this up to brag 
> but instead to outline that I’m speaking from a place of experience. In this 
> letter  to us, the customers Tim Cook 
> does a decent job of outlining the issue.
> 
> I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single phone apple 
> will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your data, and, what’s 
> worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s no such thing as a 
> backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent security measures, and one 
> that Apple has implemented is to ensure that nobody again nobody has access 
> to secured data, including Apple themselves. When I’m contracted out to build 
> secure apps or websites I do the same thing, for example, once a password has 
> been created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain access to that users 
> account.
> 
> In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the operating 
> system. This means every iOS operating system would become vulnerable to both 
> malicious hackers and our government. But let me give it to you in an 
> analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home. Now imagine that your home is 
> in a bad neighborhood and is a high-profile home. So the FBI comes along and 
> asks you to please smash out one of your own windows in broad daylight. When 
> you say it lowers the security of your home the answer is “Well it’s ok, 
> thieves in the area don’t know which window you smashed out.”
> 
> I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their accessibility, I 
> love their products but knowing about cyber security I can guarantee you 
> right now that if they build this backdoor I will immediately stop using 
> apple products.
> 
> You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating system that 
> houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not enough for you? What 
> about your keychain? You know, the one where you store all your passwords for 
> things like your bank account. 
> 
> We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but I’m here 
> to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your security it’s 
> done and the product will never be as secure again.
> 
> Tyler K. Thompson
> 
>   -Software Engineer
> 
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen > > wrote:
>> 
>> ok,
>> the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the device. 
>> Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still available, and that 
>> were the only method of encryption, then the FBI already has its problem 
>> solved. If, however, there was a secondary method (like a passcode) used, 
>> then it becomes a lot harder to get into the device. Note: I did not say 
>> impossible.
>> 
>> Now, apple can develop a method by which they can access the phone. they 
>> aren't required to publish it nor to provide it to law enforcement. all they 
>> need to do is provide a technician who knows the method (and has the 
>> program). since that program will not be turned over to the FBI, there is 
>> essentially no problem. Apple would retain custody of the program and the 
>> method and law enforcement would have to follow the law (file a warrant, 
>> etc.). At this point, there would be no back door to exploit To further 
>> secure it, I would props that the program be placed on a specialized (and 
>> isolated) device. THis device cannot be plugged into any network and would 
>> also require the use of a password (only known to apple) to work.
>> 
>> does this sound like a decent proposal?
>> 
>> -eric
>> 
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree,
>>> 
>>> It's not just terrorist that this will effect it's all IOS device users.
>>> 
>>> A back door access to one device is a back door to all devices of that type.
>>> 
>>> Iargree
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of George Cham
>>> Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 9:21 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search
>>> 
>>> That's a good point about the fingerprint. But my question is this doesn't 
>>> make apple an accessory to terrorism if they  don't  cooperate  with the 
>>> FBI?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> George,
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 19 Feb 2016, at 6:53 PM, Simon 

Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search

[Scott Granados]

So I almost fell out of my chair this morden.  Michael Hayden, the former NSA 
director who lead the warrantless wiretapping program and the meta data 
collection program, came out strongly in favor of Apple and against  the 
government.  He feels the government’s request is far over reaching and a 
danger to privacy.

I never thought I’d say this but I agree with Michael Hayden, wow!

 

> On Feb 19, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> Apple can still provide the level of security needed, and with the proper 
> methodology, still allow the FBI, et al to have access to the information 
> that is needed (and all without having to install a backdoor). It is a  
> pretty simple arrangement, but a little hard to implement.
> 
> -eric
> 
> On Feb 19, 2016, at 12:33 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
> 
>> Not following it but I agree with him whole hartedly 
>> 
>> It doesn't take much for someone to work a jailbreak for an iphone IOS when 
>> it's out, so how long would it take for someone to find the back door into 
>> the OS if they did put one in.
>> 
>> 
>> There was the same sort of issue with blackberrys and their encryption.
>> 
>> I say stay true apple,  your customers want the security of their data
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 6:28 AM
>> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
>> Subject: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search
>> 
>> Wonder if anyone else is following Tim Cook’s position against being forced 
>> to cripple the security on iPhones.  Anyone have any comments?
>> 
>> -- 
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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 

Re: Accessible Mac Video Editor?

[Scott Granados]

Now that is something I would like to know more about.  Using final cut pro 
really plays in with a Drone project I’m working on and being able to edit 
video would be fantastic.

Any podcasts?

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:48 PM, syc20...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Usually the editor that Apple makes, like iMovie and Final Cut Pro are 
> decently accessible. The only down side might come that these editing 
> software are not the easiest program to learn simply by exploring with 
> VoiceOver. I use Final Cut for my production, and although it's not the most 
> easy to use software if you pay a close attention to VO helptag with right 
> knowledge it's not too bad.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 10:16 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> > 
> wrote:
> 
>> Really basic video editing such as trimming junk off the ends of a clips 
>> can be done with QuickTime Player last I checked. Not sure about audio 
>> balance. What do you mean by that?
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>> On 2/20/16 10:41 PM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>> None that I know of.  Looking for the same thing myself and it don't exist.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>>> iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
 On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:40 PM, Kevin Chao < 
 kevincha...@gmail.com 
 > wrote:
 
 Curious what VoiceOver users recommend for basic video editing (trimming 
 and audio balance)?
 Thanks!
 
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>>> 
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Re: battery in Apple TV remote?

[Scott Granados]

4th gen is worth upgrading Dona if you still feel like it.  I have one and love 
mine.

Only thing it needs is bluetooth keyboard support which I understand is 
upcoming.


> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, I was just looking at it trying to figure out how to open it.  Nice 
> that the 4th gen charges via the lightning cable.  We almost upgraded this 
> year, but decided to hold out for the 5th gen.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> The Apple TV 3 appears to have a watch-style battery. I haven't tried it 
>> either, but take a coin to the slot in the center of the non-button side of 
>> the remote and try pushing in and turning left. This should open the cover, 
>> but again, I haven't personally tried it.
>> 
>> The Apple TV 4 remote is charged via the included Lightning cable, or the 
>> cable for any Lightning iOS device, as I recall.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 09:12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm noticing that the remote for our Apple TV doesn't seem to have it's 
>>> usual range, so am thinking that the battery must need changing.  Has 
>>> anyone ever done this?  Can the user change it or does it have to go to an 
>>> apple store?  I'm also assuming from the shape of the remote that it isn't 
>>> a standard battery?  If I'm right, where does one obtain the correct 
>>> battery?
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
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Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.

[Jessica Moss]

Where are you finding this?  I've done google searches for it, and the latest 
I've been able to find is 3.3, which I tried after the older version still 
refuses to show my contacts as being on line, and the 3.3 version is just as 
useless.
On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:12 AM, BBS  wrote:

> No, it's not the old version. This is 3.4 that he gave me.
> 
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 1:09 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
> 
> Are you talking about the old version that was brought up about a week ago? I 
> got that one up and running, but can't find that option anywhere.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 11:38 AM, BBS  wrote:
>> 
>> Kevin from Trillian gave me the link to downlad it. What's your email 
>> address? I'll forward the link to you off list unless other people want it 
>> as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 6:47 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>> 
>> Oh cool, how did you manage to get it?
>>> On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:40 PM, BBS  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jessica. My offline contacts are hidden by default. I don't know why 
>>> that isn't the case for you. By the way, they released Trillian 3.4 which 
>>> fixes the accessibility issues and more. It's not in the app store yet but 
>>> I have it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10 Twitter Handle: 
>>> shawnk_aka_bbs Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk Skype Username: 
>>> bbstheblindrapper Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica Moss
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:26 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: finally got trillion up and running and have a question.
>>> 
>>> Ok, with a ton of playing around with it, I finally got trillian up and 
>>> running, however, it now wants to show every single contact I have on 
>>> facebook, which is over 100, whether they're on line or not, and is a pain 
>>> in the neck to deal with, sense it doesn't say if they're on line or not.  
>>> Is there any way to hide my off line contacts?
>>> 
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Re: Selecting text in Terminal

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Usually if I need to get output from Terminal I just clear the buffer 
(Command-K), execute the command, then Command-A Command-C and edit once I 
paste it.  However, the VoiceOver selection command (VO-Enter) also works to 
start and stop selection, prior to Command-C for copy.

Interesting there that you’ve got nroff escape sequences being translated into 
formatting in Mail.  That’s majorly cool.  I wonder if it’s plain text being 
converted, or rich text in an HTML email where conversion is done by copy-paste?

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Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Krister Ekstrom]

Just a question out of curiosity, doesn’t a tactile screen protector make it 
harder to say move icons around on the screen? I mean that moving sorta depends 
on you holding down your fingers and as i understand it, that screen protector 
looks like a grid.
/Krister

> 22 feb. 2016 kl. 10:38 skrev Donna Goodin :
> 
> Hi Erik,
> 
> I suspect I would feel the same way, though I am thinking about giving one a 
> try just to see if I like it.  Typing speed would be the one real advantage I 
> could see.  Mostly I just use Siri and dictate, but it does seem like being 
> able to actually type more quickly, say if you're in a noisy environment, 
> could be handy.  Thanks for sharing your reaction.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:14 AM, erik burggraaf > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,  I saw several when I was training extensively.  I found it very 
>> distracting after learning without.  On the other hand,  I've read user 
>> claims of 80 wpm typing speed when learning to type with a tactile screen 
>> protecter.  I'm certainly nowhere near that.  15 or 20 wpm at best and thank 
>> goodness for completion suggestions and spelling corrections.  Maybe I 
>> missed the boat on tactile screen protectors but it certainly doesn't feel 
>> that way when I pick up my devices.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Erik Burggraaf
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my 
>>> first iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, came 
>>> out.  At that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile cover, so 
>>> I learned to use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear from those 
>>> of you who do use them.  Which one do you use?  Have you always use a 
>>> tactile cover?  If not, do you feel like using one improves your speed on 
>>> the iPhone?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Danny Noonan]

I concidder myself a power user and although I can certainly use I devices 
without a speed dots on I do definately prefer the tactile. My wife and I use 
the advanced as the f and j home keys are enough. The entire keyboard minus 
home keys is harder to use IMO. The back edit 5 on the num pad etc just give 
quick reference points that help me find buttons that much quicker. Personal 
preference but my typing with tactile home keys is much faster along with 
general movement and orientation on the screen. 
If you decide only beginners need tactile screen covers then your not being 
open minded. Try it out and decide. 

Danny

Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 Feb 2016, at 8:38 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Erik,
> 
> I suspect I would feel the same way, though I am thinking about giving one a 
> try just to see if I like it.  Typing speed would be the one real advantage I 
> could see.  Mostly I just use Siri and dictate, but it does seem like being 
> able to actually type more quickly, say if you're in a noisy environment, 
> could be handy.  Thanks for sharing your reaction.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:14 AM, erik burggraaf  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,  I saw several when I was training extensively.  I found it very 
>> distracting after learning without.  On the other hand,  I've read user 
>> claims of 80 wpm typing speed when learning to type with a tactile screen 
>> protecter.  I'm certainly nowhere near that.  15 or 20 wpm at best and thank 
>> goodness for completion suggestions and spelling corrections.  Maybe I 
>> missed the boat on tactile screen protectors but it certainly doesn't feel 
>> that way when I pick up my devices.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Erik Burggraaf
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my 
>>> first iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, came 
>>> out.  At that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile cover, so 
>>> I learned to use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear from those 
>>> of you who do use them.  Which one do you use?  Have you always use a 
>>> tactile cover?  If not, do you feel like using one improves your speed on 
>>> the iPhone?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: Changing languages with a bluetooth keyboard

[Ben J. Bloomgren]

Yes, that I can do. it's just that getting to the on-screen keyboard with the 
Bluetooth keyboard enabled is a bit tricky.

Ben
  - Original Message - 
  From: Anne Robertson 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 01:40
  Subject: Re: Changing languages with a bluetooth keyboard


  Hello Ben,


  If you have the virtual keyboard showing while using your external keyboard, 
can you get to the Next Keyboard button?
  Changing the spoken language changes the Braille input and output, but they 
are both part of VoiceOver which the keyboard is not.


  Cheers,


  Anne




On 22 Feb 2016, at 02:16, Ben J. Bloomgren  
wrote:


Seyoon, Ann and all,

Cmd+ctrl+space doesn't work either. Ann, by changing languages, I didn't 
just mean cycling through Voiceover languages in the language rotor. I'm trying 
to literally change the keyboard layout between languages as the next keyboard 
button would do on the touch screen.

Thanks,

Ben
  - Original Message - 
  From: Seyoon Choi
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 16:23
  Subject: Re: Changing languages with a bluetooth keyboard


  Try Command control space and see if that gets you anywhere. I am not 
100% sure though


  Seyoon Choi
  syc20...@gmail.com
  YouTube Video Content Producer
  Head of Blindinsider
  www.blindinsider.com
  Technology news, podcasts, videos and lifestyle for blind and visually 
impaired


On Feb 20, 2016, at 4:13 PM, ben J. Bloomgren 
 wrote:


Hello List,

I just bought an Apple Magic Keyboard today, and I'm loving it. I've 
got a question though.

As a major linguaphile, changing languages is essential. I know how to 
do it generally within iOS, but how does one do so with the Bluetooth keyboard. 
I tried to do it with cmd+space and option+space, but it's not working.

Thanks,

Ben

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Re: Questions re tactile covers

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Erik,

I suspect I would feel the same way, though I am thinking about giving one a 
try just to see if I like it.  Typing speed would be the one real advantage I 
could see.  Mostly I just use Siri and dictate, but it does seem like being 
able to actually type more quickly, say if you're in a noisy environment, could 
be handy.  Thanks for sharing your reaction.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:14 AM, erik burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Hi,  I saw several when I was training extensively.  I found it very 
> distracting after learning without.  On the other hand,  I've read user 
> claims of 80 wpm typing speed when learning to type with a tactile screen 
> protecter.  I'm certainly nowhere near that.  15 or 20 wpm at best and thank 
> goodness for completion suggestions and spelling corrections.  Maybe I missed 
> the boat on tactile screen protectors but it certainly doesn't feel that way 
> when I pick up my devices.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik Burggraaf
> 
> 
>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> When I was asked about these, it kind of took me by surprise.  I got my 
>> first iPhone the first week that the first accessible model, the 3GS, came 
>> out.  At that time of course there was no such thing as a tactile cover, so 
>> I learned to use my phone without one.  I'd be curious to hear from those of 
>> you who do use them.  Which one do you use?  Have you always use a tactile 
>> cover?  If not, do you feel like using one improves your speed on the iPhone?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: Changing languages with a bluetooth keyboard

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Ben,

If you have the virtual keyboard showing while using your external keyboard, 
can you get to the Next Keyboard button?
Changing the spoken language changes the Braille input and output, but they are 
both part of VoiceOver which the keyboard is not.

Cheers,

Anne


> On 22 Feb 2016, at 02:16, Ben J. Bloomgren  wrote:
> 
> Seyoon, Ann and all,
>  
> Cmd+ctrl+space doesn't work either. Ann, by changing languages, I didn't just 
> mean cycling through Voiceover languages in the language rotor. I'm trying to 
> literally change the keyboard layout between languages as the next keyboard 
> button would do on the touch screen.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Ben
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Seyoon Choi 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 16:23
>> Subject: Re: Changing languages with a bluetooth keyboard
>> 
>> Try Command control space and see if that gets you anywhere. I am not 100% 
>> sure though
>> 
>> Seyoon Choi
>> syc20...@gmail.com 
>> YouTube Video Content Producer
>> Head of Blindinsider
>> www.blindinsider.com 
>> Technology news, podcasts, videos and lifestyle for blind and visually 
>> impaired
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 4:13 PM, ben J. Bloomgren >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello List,
>>> 
>>> I just bought an Apple Magic Keyboard today, and I'm loving it. I've got a 
>>> question though.
>>> 
>>> As a major linguaphile, changing languages is essential. I know how to do 
>>> it generally within iOS, but how does one do so with the Bluetooth 
>>> keyboard. I tried to do it with cmd+space and option+space, but it's not 
>>> working.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
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