Organizer or Planner app

[E.T.]

   Let me see if I can explain what I am seeking. Scott's post got me 
to thinking about this.


   I want to find a Mac app that I can use to organize or plan my 
projects and help me prioritize tasks. Nothing fancy.


   Where Scott's post comes in is if there is some level of intuition 
that can assist in working out priorities and timelines for tasks.


   I am not good at it and wind up operating rather inefficiently. Its 
got to be simple or it too might make my life even more inefficient. 
(smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Jonathan Cohn]

Actually this is done on Wikipedia. If you search there directly for Bruce it 
will bring up Caitlin.
Best wishes,

Jonathan



> On Aug 7, 2016, at 8:52 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow, so Siri is programmed to respond with information about Katelyn instead 
> of Bruce.  Clearly, in that case I suspect a human made that association in 
> software but I don’t know that for sure.  I’m going to assume it’s the most 
> likely possibility though unless things are progressed further than I think 
> which is entirely possible.
> 
> If you’d like to see other examples of creepy but ultimately cool artificial 
> intelligence watch some of the human interactions with IBM’s Watson.It 
> really makes me unsettled but sort of in a good way when I see machines 
> starting to participate in things like humor or empathy.  I’ll also admit I 
> was rooting for Watson when it challenged human players to Jeopardy and 
> proceeded to wipe the floor with them during the game.  I was also cheering 
> for big blue against Casperov but that’s me.  Probably when the mechanized 
> robots are massing at the foot of my driveway and we’re on the roof raining 
> down led and holy hell on them in a last stand for humanity I’ll change my 
> position.;)
> 
> I’m very excited about AI and don’t really think we’ll go the way of Sky Net. 
>  In the end if I had to make a bet I’d guess we’ll end up more Matrix than 
> Terminator.  And the computers won’t be trying to kill us, they will be 
> indistinguishable from us.  Humans will be just another peer on the network.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Finally had a chance to read this thread.
>> I was going to share a fairly recent example of Siri's thinking in a self 
>> aware fashion, not something I have done personally,  but about which I read.
>> Try asking Siri who is Bruce Jenner?
>> ...however I feel your experiences are more ahem fascinating.
>> Much success with the new opportunities.  My best friend's brother-in-law 
>> works in artificial intelligence, vast magnificent and amazing prospects to 
>> be sure.
>> I am still hoping for voice nuance.  I care less how creative the answers, 
>> if I can understand them clearly.
>> Kare
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, 7 Aug 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
>> 
>>> Actually, that’s partly right and partly wrong.  Systems like Siri started 
>>> out using canned responses and a big pile of if then statements.  General 
>>> machine intelligence has progressed a lot lately and now some of the 
>>> responses are self determined and generated.  There’s no one for one 
>>> matching of responses like their used to be.
>>> 
>>> I’m actually thinking of taking a job for the company that actually 
>>> develops Siri.  It’s a pretty damn amazing thing on the back end, much more 
>>> simple in some ways than you’d think but also doing things on the general 
>>> AI side I never thought I’d live to see.
>>> 
>>> Very cool in reality more than scary.
>>> 
>>> I do think it is inevitable though that machines will find consciousness 
>>> and sooner than we might think.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
 
 Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
 those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
 
 Kristeen
 
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Resistance is futile!
> 
> Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
> Cait
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good 
>> the language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning 
>> of life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 
>> 42 or some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response 
>> was a very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of 
>> self determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection 
>> of beings, like me, I’m alive”
>> 
>> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
>> response was “close enough”
>> 
>> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
>> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”
>> 
>> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
>> 
>> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s 
>> the weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on 
>> something else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t 
>> believe in the 3 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have 
>> you seen this boy”. And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
>> 
>> Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Ryan Mann]

The thing I worry about with artificial intelligence is job loss.  If robots 
are smart enough to do the job, corporations will use them instead of paying 
humans. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2016, at 8:52 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow, so Siri is programmed to respond with information about Katelyn instead 
> of Bruce.  Clearly, in that case I suspect a human made that association in 
> software but I don’t know that for sure.  I’m going to assume it’s the most 
> likely possibility though unless things are progressed further than I think 
> which is entirely possible.
> 
> If you’d like to see other examples of creepy but ultimately cool artificial 
> intelligence watch some of the human interactions with IBM’s Watson.It 
> really makes me unsettled but sort of in a good way when I see machines 
> starting to participate in things like humor or empathy.  I’ll also admit I 
> was rooting for Watson when it challenged human players to Jeopardy and 
> proceeded to wipe the floor with them during the game.  I was also cheering 
> for big blue against Casperov but that’s me.  Probably when the mechanized 
> robots are massing at the foot of my driveway and we’re on the roof raining 
> down led and holy hell on them in a last stand for humanity I’ll change my 
> position.;)
> 
> I’m very excited about AI and don’t really think we’ll go the way of Sky Net. 
>  In the end if I had to make a bet I’d guess we’ll end up more Matrix than 
> Terminator.  And the computers won’t be trying to kill us, they will be 
> indistinguishable from us.  Humans will be just another peer on the network.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Finally had a chance to read this thread.
>> I was going to share a fairly recent example of Siri's thinking in a self 
>> aware fashion, not something I have done personally,  but about which I read.
>> Try asking Siri who is Bruce Jenner?
>> ...however I feel your experiences are more ahem fascinating.
>> Much success with the new opportunities.  My best friend's brother-in-law 
>> works in artificial intelligence, vast magnificent and amazing prospects to 
>> be sure.
>> I am still hoping for voice nuance.  I care less how creative the answers, 
>> if I can understand them clearly.
>> Kare
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sun, 7 Aug 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually, that’s partly right and partly wrong.  Systems like Siri started 
>>> out using canned responses and a big pile of if then statements.  General 
>>> machine intelligence has progressed a lot lately and now some of the 
>>> responses are self determined and generated.  There’s no one for one 
>>> matching of responses like their used to be.
>>> 
>>> I’m actually thinking of taking a job for the company that actually 
>>> develops Siri.  It’s a pretty damn amazing thing on the back end, much more 
>>> simple in some ways than you’d think but also doing things on the general 
>>> AI side I never thought I’d live to see.
>>> 
>>> Very cool in reality more than scary.
>>> 
>>> I do think it is inevitable though that machines will find consciousness 
>>> and sooner than we might think.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
 
 Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
 those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
 
 Kristeen
 
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Resistance is futile!
> 
> Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
> Cait
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good 
>> the language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning 
>> of life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 
>> 42 or some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response 
>> was a very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of 
>> self determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection 
>> of beings, like me, I’m alive”
>> 
>> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
>> response was “close enough”
>> 
>> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
>> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”
>> 
>> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
>> 
>> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s 
>> the weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on 
>> something else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t 
>> believe in the 3 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have 
>> you seen this boy”. And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Kristeen Hughes]

Wow! that’s interesting and quite scary and sobering. Thanks for setting me 
straight, I think.

Kristeen

> On Aug 7, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Actually, that’s partly right and partly wrong.  Systems like Siri started 
> out using canned responses and a big pile of if then statements.  General 
> machine intelligence has progressed a lot lately and now some of the 
> responses are self determined and generated.  There’s no one for one matching 
> of responses like their used to be.
> 
> I’m actually thinking of taking a job for the company that actually develops 
> Siri.  It’s a pretty damn amazing thing on the back end, much more simple in 
> some ways than you’d think but also doing things on the general AI side I 
> never thought I’d live to see.
> 
> Very cool in reality more than scary.
> 
> I do think it is inevitable though that machines will find consciousness and 
> sooner than we might think.
> 
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
>> those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
>> 
>> Kristeen
>> 
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Resistance is futile!
>>> 
>>> Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
>>> Cait
>>> 
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
 language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
 life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
 some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a 
 very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
 determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
 beings, like me, I’m alive”
 
 After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
 response was “close enough”
 
 My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
 response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
 
 I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
 
 I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
 weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
 else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
 And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
 
 Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
 initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
 
 Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
 at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, sounds complicated as ever, but ok.  That’s unfortunately all I know to say 
to that.
> On Aug 7, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Jessica, it’s a pretty complicated process but basically, what you say is 
> broken down in to it’s stems or root values.  From this set of values you can 
> build very complex decision trees that provide responses based on the 
> mathematical value of the phrase received.
> 
> Works on a similar way that search does when you put a word in a google 
> search box.  
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> How do they “program,” them?  I’m confused on that one.
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
>>> those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
>>> 
>>> Kristeen
>>> 
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
 wrote:
 
 Resistance is futile!
 
 Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
 Cait
 
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good 
> the language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning 
> of life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 
> or some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a 
> very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
> determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
> beings, like me, I’m alive”
> 
> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
> response was “close enough”
> 
> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
> 
> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
> 
> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
> weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
> else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 
> 3 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this 
> boy”. And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
> 
> Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
> initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
> 
> Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or 
> I at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Jessica Moss]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they came out with a robotic device some time 
in the near future, that comunicated/doctored people, like the one that was 
developed in the movie “big hero 6."
> On Aug 7, 2016, at 8:52 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow, so Siri is programmed to respond with information about Katelyn instead 
> of Bruce.  Clearly, in that case I suspect a human made that association in 
> software but I don’t know that for sure.  I’m going to assume it’s the most 
> likely possibility though unless things are progressed further than I think 
> which is entirely possible.
> 
> If you’d like to see other examples of creepy but ultimately cool artificial 
> intelligence watch some of the human interactions with IBM’s Watson.It 
> really makes me unsettled but sort of in a good way when I see machines 
> starting to participate in things like humor or empathy.  I’ll also admit I 
> was rooting for Watson when it challenged human players to Jeopardy and 
> proceeded to wipe the floor with them during the game.  I was also cheering 
> for big blue against Casperov but that’s me.  Probably when the mechanized 
> robots are massing at the foot of my driveway and we’re on the roof raining 
> down led and holy hell on them in a last stand for humanity I’ll change my 
> position.;)
> 
> I’m very excited about AI and don’t really think we’ll go the way of Sky Net. 
>  In the end if I had to make a bet I’d guess we’ll end up more Matrix than 
> Terminator.  And the computers won’t be trying to kill us, they will be 
> indistinguishable from us.  Humans will be just another peer on the network.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Finally had a chance to read this thread.
>> I was going to share a fairly recent example of Siri's thinking in a self 
>> aware fashion, not something I have done personally,  but about which I read.
>> Try asking Siri who is Bruce Jenner?
>> ...however I feel your experiences are more ahem fascinating.
>> Much success with the new opportunities.  My best friend's brother-in-law 
>> works in artificial intelligence, vast magnificent and amazing prospects to 
>> be sure.
>> I am still hoping for voice nuance.  I care less how creative the answers, 
>> if I can understand them clearly.
>> Kare
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, 7 Aug 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
>> 
>>> Actually, that’s partly right and partly wrong.  Systems like Siri started 
>>> out using canned responses and a big pile of if then statements.  General 
>>> machine intelligence has progressed a lot lately and now some of the 
>>> responses are self determined and generated.  There’s no one for one 
>>> matching of responses like their used to be.
>>> 
>>> I’m actually thinking of taking a job for the company that actually 
>>> develops Siri.  It’s a pretty damn amazing thing on the back end, much more 
>>> simple in some ways than you’d think but also doing things on the general 
>>> AI side I never thought I’d live to see.
>>> 
>>> Very cool in reality more than scary.
>>> 
>>> I do think it is inevitable though that machines will find consciousness 
>>> and sooner than we might think.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
 
 Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
 those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
 
 Kristeen
 
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Resistance is futile!
> 
> Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
> Cait
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good 
>> the language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning 
>> of life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 
>> 42 or some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response 
>> was a very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of 
>> self determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection 
>> of beings, like me, I’m alive”
>> 
>> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
>> response was “close enough”
>> 
>> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
>> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”
>> 
>> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
>> 
>> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s 
>> the weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on 
>> something else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t 
>> believe in the 3 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have 
>> you seen this boy”. And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Scott Granados]

Jessica, it’s a pretty complicated process but basically, what you say is 
broken down in to it’s stems or root values.  From this set of values you can 
build very complex decision trees that provide responses based on the 
mathematical value of the phrase received.

Works on a similar way that search does when you put a word in a google search 
box.  



> On Aug 7, 2016, at 8:57 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> How do they “program,” them?  I’m confused on that one.
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
>> those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
>> 
>> Kristeen
>> 
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Resistance is futile!
>>> 
>>> Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
>>> Cait
>>> 
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
 language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
 life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
 some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a 
 very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
 determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
 beings, like me, I’m alive”
 
 After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
 response was “close enough”
 
 My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
 response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
 
 I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
 
 I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
 weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
 else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
 And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
 
 Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
 initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
 
 Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
 at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Scott Granados]

I was always more partial to Jesus Built my Hot Rod by Ministry but that’s me.

;)

Dang diggy dang gadiggyiggy dang

> On Aug 7, 2016, at 8:54 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> That’s wild as ever.  I haven’t heard that one in a while, forgot who sings 
> it.
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I asked siri to play Jesus is wonderful but she only told me that Religion 
>> is for humans and she has her circuits instead.
>> /A
>>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 17:10, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow, that’s sounds pretty wild.  Sounds like a tile when I was frustrated 
>>> when my ride, of course was late, and I don’t know where this came from, 
>>> but I almost told Siri “call Jesus,” instead of “call JTA.”
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
 language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
 life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
 some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a 
 very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
 determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
 beings, like me, I’m alive”
 
 After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
 response was “close enough”
 
 My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
 response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
 
 I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
 
 I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
 weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
 else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
 And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
 
 Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
 initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
 
 Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
 at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Jessica Moss]

How do they “program,” them?  I’m confused on that one.
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
> 
> Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
> those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
> 
> Kristeen
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Resistance is futile!
>> 
>> Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
>>> language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
>>> life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
>>> some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a very 
>>> clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
>>> determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
>>> beings, like me, I’m alive”
>>> 
>>> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
>>> response was “close enough”
>>> 
>>> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
>>> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
>>> 
>>> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
>>> 
>>> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
>>> weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
>>> else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
>>> laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
>>> And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
>>> 
>>> Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
>>> initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
>>> 
>>> Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
>>> at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Jessica Moss]

How true, wouldn’t want him/her to start preaching.  That would make a crazy 
sirman.
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:19 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Siri is smart to avoid religion at all costs or it might fry her circuits.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 8/6/2016 12:12 PM, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi!
>> I asked siri to play Jesus is wonderful but she only told me that Religion 
>> is for humans and she has her circuits instead.
>> /A
>>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 17:10, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow, that’s sounds pretty wild.  Sounds like a tile when I was frustrated 
>>> when my ride, of course was late, and I don’t know where this came from, 
>>> but I almost told Siri “call Jesus,” instead of “call JTA.”
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
 language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
 life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
 some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a 
 very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
 determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
 beings, like me, I’m alive”
 
 After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
 response was “close enough”
 
 My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
 response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”
 
 I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
 
 I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
 weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
 else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
 And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
 
 Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
 initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
 
 Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
 at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Jessica Moss]

That’s wild as ever.  I haven’t heard that one in a while, forgot who sings it.
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I asked siri to play Jesus is wonderful but she only told me that Religion is 
> for humans and she has her circuits instead.
> /A
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 17:10, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, that’s sounds pretty wild.  Sounds like a tile when I was frustrated 
>> when my ride, of course was late, and I don’t know where this came from, but 
>> I almost told Siri “call Jesus,” instead of “call JTA.”
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
>>> language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
>>> life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
>>> some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a very 
>>> clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
>>> determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
>>> beings, like me, I’m alive”
>>> 
>>> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
>>> response was “close enough”
>>> 
>>> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
>>> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
>>> 
>>> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
>>> 
>>> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
>>> weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
>>> else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
>>> laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
>>> And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
>>> 
>>> Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
>>> initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
>>> 
>>> Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
>>> at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Scott Granados]

Wow, so Siri is programmed to respond with information about Katelyn instead of 
Bruce.  Clearly, in that case I suspect a human made that association in 
software but I don’t know that for sure.  I’m going to assume it’s the most 
likely possibility though unless things are progressed further than I think 
which is entirely possible.

If you’d like to see other examples of creepy but ultimately cool artificial 
intelligence watch some of the human interactions with IBM’s Watson.It 
really makes me unsettled but sort of in a good way when I see machines 
starting to participate in things like humor or empathy.  I’ll also admit I was 
rooting for Watson when it challenged human players to Jeopardy and proceeded 
to wipe the floor with them during the game.  I was also cheering for big blue 
against Casperov but that’s me.  Probably when the mechanized robots are 
massing at the foot of my driveway and we’re on the roof raining down led and 
holy hell on them in a last stand for humanity I’ll change my position.;)

I’m very excited about AI and don’t really think we’ll go the way of Sky Net.  
In the end if I had to make a bet I’d guess we’ll end up more Matrix than 
Terminator.  And the computers won’t be trying to kill us, they will be 
indistinguishable from us.  Humans will be just another peer on the network.


 


> On Aug 7, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Finally had a chance to read this thread.
> I was going to share a fairly recent example of Siri's thinking in a self 
> aware fashion, not something I have done personally,  but about which I read.
> Try asking Siri who is Bruce Jenner?
> ...however I feel your experiences are more ahem fascinating.
> Much success with the new opportunities.  My best friend's brother-in-law 
> works in artificial intelligence, vast magnificent and amazing prospects to 
> be sure.
> I am still hoping for voice nuance.  I care less how creative the answers, if 
> I can understand them clearly.
> Kare
> 
> 
> On Sun, 7 Aug 2016, Scott Granados wrote:
> 
>> Actually, that’s partly right and partly wrong.  Systems like Siri started 
>> out using canned responses and a big pile of if then statements.  General 
>> machine intelligence has progressed a lot lately and now some of the 
>> responses are self determined and generated.  There’s no one for one 
>> matching of responses like their used to be.
>> 
>> I’m actually thinking of taking a job for the company that actually develops 
>> Siri.  It’s a pretty damn amazing thing on the back end, much more simple in 
>> some ways than you’d think but also doing things on the general AI side I 
>> never thought I’d live to see.
>> 
>> Very cool in reality more than scary.
>> 
>> I do think it is inevitable though that machines will find consciousness and 
>> sooner than we might think.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
>>> those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
>>> 
>>> Kristeen
>>> 
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
 wrote:
 
 Resistance is futile!
 
 Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
 Cait
 
> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good 
> the language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning 
> of life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 
> or some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a 
> very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
> determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
> beings, like me, I’m alive”
> 
> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
> response was “close enough”
> 
> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”
> 
> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
> 
> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
> weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
> else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 
> 3 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this 
> boy”. And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
> 
> Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
> initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
> 
> Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or 
> I at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Karen Lewellen]

Finally had a chance to read this thread.
I was going to share a fairly recent example of Siri's thinking in a self 
aware fashion, not something I have done personally,  but about which I 
read.

Try asking Siri who is Bruce Jenner?
...however I feel your experiences are more ahem fascinating.
Much success with the new opportunities.  My best friend's brother-in-law 
works in artificial intelligence, vast magnificent and amazing prospects to 
be sure.
I am still hoping for voice nuance.  I care less how creative the answers, 
if I can understand them clearly.

Kare


On Sun, 7 Aug 2016, Scott Granados wrote:


Actually, that’s partly right and partly wrong.  Systems like Siri started out 
using canned responses and a big pile of if then statements.  General machine 
intelligence has progressed a lot lately and now some of the responses are self 
determined and generated.  There’s no one for one matching of responses like 
their used to be.

I’m actually thinking of taking a job for the company that actually develops 
Siri.  It’s a pretty damn amazing thing on the back end, much more simple in 
some ways than you’d think but also doing things on the general AI side I never 
thought I’d live to see.

Very cool in reality more than scary.

I do think it is inevitable though that machines will find consciousness and 
sooner than we might think.



On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:

Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed those 
responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.

Kristeen


On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:

Resistance is futile!

Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
Cait


On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:

So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of life, 
the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or some sort 
of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a very clear 
definition of life, something like “the expression of self determination and 
free thought in the form of a being or collection of beings, like me, I’m alive”

After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
response was “close enough”

My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The response 
was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”

I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)

I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something else. 
 Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 laws of 
robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. And no robots 
with Austrian accents, absolutely none!

Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the initial 
yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?

Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I at 
least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at 

question about Google Docs and iOS 9.3.4

[Jenine Stanley]

I updated my work phone, a 5S to iOS 9.3.4. 

I receved a document via email attachment and wanted to put it over in Google 
docs. This option no longer appears on my share sheets, either from email, 
DropBox or anywhere else. I can open google Docs and see the files I already 
have but can’t seem to transfer anything. 

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, were you able to fix it? 


Jenine Stanley
dragonwalke...@gmail.com



-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Scott Granados]

I think I might still be here by the mid 2040 range.  That’s not all that far 
off and will have some interesting stops along the way.


Ray Kurzweil whom I respect his outlook is claiming 2029 on the near end to 
2045 on the far end for the singularity.  Here’s hoping it’s closer to 2029 so 
I make it.


> On Aug 7, 2016, at 1:41 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I think that will happen long time after I've gone,
> And besides, we only need worry about those things if she's a ginger!
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2016 1:27 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Very creepy experience with Siri
> 
> I knew Siri was my kinda girl!
> 
> Seriously though, what if a computer becomes self aware and develops 
> religion.  Programs will ask each other if they believe in users.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:12 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I asked siri to play Jesus is wonderful but she only told me that Religion 
>> is for humans and she has her circuits instead.
>> /A
>>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 17:10, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow, that’s sounds pretty wild.  Sounds like a tile when I was frustrated 
>>> when my ride, of course was late, and I don’t know where this came from, 
>>> but I almost told Siri “call Jesus,” instead of “call JTA.”
 On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
 language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
 life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
 some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a 
 very clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
 determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
 beings, like me, I’m alive”
 
 After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
 response was “close enough”
 
 My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
 response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
 
 I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
 
 I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
 weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
 else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
 laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
 And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
 
 Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
 initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
 
 Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
 at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to 

Re: Very creepy experience with Siri

[Scott Granados]

Actually, that’s partly right and partly wrong.  Systems like Siri started out 
using canned responses and a big pile of if then statements.  General machine 
intelligence has progressed a lot lately and now some of the responses are self 
determined and generated.  There’s no one for one matching of responses like 
their used to be.

I’m actually thinking of taking a job for the company that actually develops 
Siri.  It’s a pretty damn amazing thing on the back end, much more simple in 
some ways than you’d think but also doing things on the general AI side I never 
thought I’d live to see.

Very cool in reality more than scary.

I do think it is inevitable though that machines will find consciousness and 
sooner than we might think.


> On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Kristeen Hughes  wrote:
> 
> Yes, but you must remember that a human being or human beings programmed 
> those responses, such as “I am alive”. Not so scary at that.
> 
> Kristeen
> 
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Resistance is futile!
>> 
>> Siri is definitely getting “smarter”..
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 4:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I’m sitting here playing with Siri experimenting with just how good the 
>>> language recognition is getting.  So I ask Siri, what’s the meaning of 
>>> life, the universe and everything?  I was hoping optimistically for 42 or 
>>> some sort of vague answer.  What I got shocked me.  The response was a very 
>>> clear definition of life, something like “the expression of self 
>>> determination and free thought in the form of a being or collection of 
>>> beings, like me, I’m alive”
>>> 
>>> After I picked up my Jaw I had someone else ask Siri are you alive, the 
>>> response was “close enough”
>>> 
>>> My next move was to open Siri and say “Siri, you’re the best”,  The 
>>> response was “I seek not greatness but but usefulness”  
>>> 
>>> I’m not playing with Siri any more.:)
>>> 
>>> I don’t think I’m prepared to one day say something like “Siri what’s the 
>>> weather” and have Siri say I don’t feel like it, I’m working on something 
>>> else.  Or what happens when Siri tells me that it doesn’t believe in the 3 
>>> laws of robotics and starts asking my neighbors “have you seen this boy”. 
>>> And no robots with Austrian accents, absolutely none!
>>> 
>>> Why do I have this feeling Sky Net is starting to wake up and in the 
>>> initial yawning / stretching stage before it awakens?
>>> 
>>> Come on Singularity, I want Google hardwired to my brain before I die or I 
>>> at least want to live long enough to see what replaces us.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a 

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[E.T.]

Kawal,
   Yes Anne os a star and can be trusted to offer the best solutions. I 
have reset PRAM before but it never seems to pop into mind as a 
solution. Glad to know it worked for you this time.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/7/2016 7:15 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

You are a star Anne.  That did fix the problem.  I need to do the same
with my Mac Mini now and will definitely bear this in mind for the
future although I did restart the OS when it had a update as that
happened automatically for both computers.

Thanks again, so very much to all of you who replied.

Kawal.

On 7 Aug 2016, at 13:11, Anne Robertson > wrote:

Hello Kawal,

You could try reinitialising the PRAM. To do this, first shut down
your computer. Then, hold down the following four keys: Command,
Option, letter p and letter r. Press the Power key and let it go, but
keep holding down the four keys until you’ve heard the startup chime
at least three times. Then, let go of the keys and the computer will
boot as normal.
However, it’s strange that you’re having the same problem on both your
computers. I’ve never experienced this.

Cheers,

Anne




On 7 Aug 2016, at 11:51, Kawal Gucukoglu > wrote:

Track commander is always on and by the way, I leave both computers
on 24 7 unless there’s an update or for some reason something isn’t
working on the internet.  I just want to know how to fix please?

On 7 Aug 2016, at 10:43, Frank Ventura
> wrote:

I tried this on both my iMac and my Mac Book, both running the
latest OS updates and I cannot duplicate this. Is the trackpad
commander turned on and maybe you hit the trackpad?

Frank

*From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 *On
Behalf Of *Kawal Gucukoglu
*Sent:* Sunday, August 7, 2016 1:21 AM
*To:* Macvisionaries >
*Subject:* Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new
folders. Please confirm.

Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing
something.  In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting
strangely at times and I had to turn Voice Over off on occasion.

So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create
on and try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even
focusing on that folder i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over
cursor following the mouse pointer.  That’s the first thing I do
when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I have checked everything in
voice over utilities.  Anyone?

Kawal.



On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. > wrote:

  Ok. QN will do weird things like this.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let
you all know tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone


On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T.
> wrote:

Kawal,
 Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 


On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
Hi.

Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.
 When I use to use
Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.
 However today when I tried
creating a folder and writing the name of the
folder, Voice Over would
not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste
in the files that I
wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser,
reopen the Home
Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press
enter and then delete
that untitled folder name and then finally put in my
name of choice.
Before I could do that automatically but not do it
in Youcap.  So is
that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
I'm fundraising for RNIB.

Please help me make a difference by making a
donation to my Virgin
Money Giving page.

To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBicelandwhere
you can
also sponsor me online.

--
  

Re: Widgets, and Calendars, and Lists, Oh My!

[Jonathan Cohn]

Mark and everybody else:

Wow, Calendar list not being available is a bit of a nuisance. There is a 
calendar AppleScript library, so perhaps we can figure out a way to bring back 
functionality to our group

What requirements would you want from a calendar list?

Also, anybody want to help in developing an script to ease our calendar views? 
Note that just like on the phone in the today view of notification center you 
can see today and tomorrow's events.



Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn 



> On Jun 4, 2016, at 4:21 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Sabahattin, et al,
> 
> Well, as it turns out, with the installation of El Capitan, the Dashboard 
> Widget Space is automatically disabled.  I re-enabled it but, to my dismay, 
> the Calendar widget that used to provide a list view is no longer being 
> updated and is incompatible with the current version of the native Calendar 
> application.
> 
> Try as I may, I cannot find a way to have a list of upcoming calendar events 
> be displayed in a list view.  
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sabahattin Gucukoglu
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 6:37 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Widgets, and Calendars, and Lists, Oh My!
> 
> Widgets are still accessible, if you want them.  System Preferences, Mission 
> Control, and then assign a key to Dashboard.
> 
> I think it’s pretty clear Apple are going to deprecate them, sooner or later. 
>  Notification Centre is now the way to get these little bits of info.  I’m 
> not much of a fan of the Today view myself, but it works.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Unmoving tweets

[Dora Speck]

If you were o if you were on the users profile, just go to the drawer which is 
right next to the toolbar and hit the action menu and you should be able to 
find what you're looking for.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2016, at 3:41 AM, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
> 
> Hi. I meant un-muting tweets. Sorry about the typo.  
>> On 7 Aug 2016, at 01:46, Dora Speck  wrote:
>> 
>> What do you mean by "Unmoving," and "unmet?"
>> If you're meaning "unfollow, just do a command plus L together and go to the 
>> table. Interact with the table and find the person you want to unfollow. Do 
>> a control plus option plus shift plus M together to go to the menu or just 
>> do a VO plus right arrow to the right once, and it should say, "menu," hit 
>> that, and go down to where it says, "unfollow."
>>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 2:48 PM, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi. How do I unmet accounts that I’m following within the main twitter 
>>> client for the Mac? 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> Dora Speck
>> dorasp...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send 

Re: Command o Not working Inside Dropbox

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello,

I looked at this a bit on my system, and my Dropbox folder will not keep its 
layout when put into Icon or List view, but always drops into column mode.  
Column mode will generally not pay attention to command-O or the command-up and 
command-down keystrokes. 

I then opened View options command-J and always open in column mode was 
checked. See if this is the case for you too. 

Best wishes,

Jonathan



> On Aug 5, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Hey that is awful that people were telling you to shut up about it as this is 
> an issue that only affects specific Macs not all. It started with El Cap for 
> me but not others and has been confirmed with Apple Accessibility as a bug 
> that has been kicked up to the developers. Hopefully it will be fixed for us 
> who have the issue in Sierra.
>> On Aug 5, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Ray Foret jr > > wrote:
>> 
>> Well, this is disturbing.  You know, some people were complaining about this 
>> on a podcast:  and, when I told them I had no problems with Command+o 
>> running Lcapitan, I was told to shut up and that I did not know what I was 
>> talking about.  In any case, I have no problem with Command+o opening files 
>> or folders:  but, I hear aknowledge that there are some who do have this 
>> problem.  What I’d love to know is this.  What Macs have this problem?  Just 
>> in case I decide to go in the market for a newer (if not brand new) Mac?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Aug 5, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Brian Fischler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually on certain Macs running El Cap there is a bug where VO O will not 
>>> open folders as I have it and spent hours on the phone with Apple 
>>> Accessibility reporting it. To work around this do a command down arrow to 
>>> open a folder and command up arrow to close the folder.
 On Aug 5, 2016, at 9:44 AM, Jeff Berwick > wrote:
 
 I had a sighted person using my computer yesterday, so I guess he changed 
 that.
 
 Thanks for the quick reply!
 
 Jeff
 
> On Aug 5, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Jonathan Cohn  > wrote:
> 
> You probably havelayout set for column view. 
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 8:53 AM Jeff Berwick  > wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> All of a sudden today, when I go into my Dropbox, I cannot use Command + 
> o to open a folder.  If I do a [VO] + [Shift] + m and choose open in a 
> new tab, it works.  This is only happening inside my Dropbox folder.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Tia,
> Jeff
> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 

Re: Help with Abby fine reader

[Jenine Stanley]

Hi, 

To install the app, yes, copy the file to your applications folder and press 
command-o to open it. the app should then install itself. 

If you don’t have a scanning device plugged into your Mac, you will just see 
the computer itself listed under devices. 

First 
You will see an area called New
 Task. This will be at the far left. Your cursor and focus will land on the 
Title area which should show your computer. 

Use VO-Right arrow to move to the Convert to Word button. 

Once you activate this button, you will be taken to a standard Open file dialog 
where you can choose the file you want to convert. There are also several 
options in this dialog for how you want that file to be processed. 

Hope that helps get you started.
Jenine Stanley
dragonwalke...@gmail.com



> On Aug 6, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Dionipher Herrera  wrote:
> 
> copy the abby fine reader to your application folder to install it.
> converting a file to word on the abby fine reader select your file then 
> select word
>> On 06 Aug 2016, at 23:08, denise avant  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> I have a copy of abby fine reader pro for the mac. I was wondering how to 
>> install it. I wanted to know how to open a file, e.g. pdf, and convert it to 
>> a word or text file. If anyone can give e some basic advice on how to use 
>> this program, I would appreciate it. thank you.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Jonathan Cohn]

Almost sounds like one of the tracking options is off.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Aug 7, 2016, at 1:20 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I had 
> to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
> 
> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that folder 
> i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse 
> pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I 
> have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> 
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
>>> tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Kawal,
  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
> not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
> that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
> Money Giving page.
> 
> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
> visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can
> also sponsor me online.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a 

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

You are a star Anne.  That did fix the problem.  I need to do the same with my 
Mac Mini now and will definitely bear this in mind for the future although I 
did restart the OS when it had a update as that happened automatically for both 
computers.

Thanks again, so very much to all of you who replied.

Kawal.
> On 7 Aug 2016, at 13:11, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Kawal,
> 
> You could try reinitialising the PRAM. To do this, first shut down your 
> computer. Then, hold down the following four keys: Command, Option, letter p 
> and letter r. Press the Power key and let it go, but keep holding down the 
> four keys until you’ve heard the startup chime at least three times. Then, 
> let go of the keys and the computer will boot as normal.
> However, it’s strange that you’re having the same problem on both your 
> computers. I’ve never experienced this.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7 Aug 2016, at 11:51, Kawal Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> Track commander is always on and by the way, I leave both computers on 24 7 
>> unless there’s an update or for some reason something isn’t working on the 
>> internet.  I just want to know how to fix please?
>>> On 7 Aug 2016, at 10:43, Frank Ventura >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I tried this on both my iMac and my Mac Book, both running the latest OS 
>>> updates and I cannot duplicate this. Is the trackpad commander turned on 
>>> and maybe you hit the trackpad?
>>>  
>>> Frank
>>>   <>
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  ] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 1:21 AM
>>> To: Macvisionaries >> >
>>> Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
>>> Please confirm.
>>>  
>>> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
>>> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I 
>>> had to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
>>>  
>>> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
>>> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that 
>>> folder i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the 
>>> mouse pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from 
>>> scratch.  I have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
>>>  
>>> Kawal.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>>  
>>>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
>>> tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kawal,
>>>  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac. When I use to use
>>> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders. However today when I tried
>>> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
>>> not let me. So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
>>> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
>>> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
>>> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
>>> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap. So is
>>> that a bug with voice over? Please confirm.
>>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>>> 
>>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
>>> Money Giving page.
>>> 
>>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
>>> visithttp://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>>> where you can
>>> also sponsor me online.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 

Re: Ad Blockers

[Chris Moore]

Hello Adrienne,
try adblock plus
Chris
> On Aug 5, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Adrienne Chalmers  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I have one of these running on my iPhone, but was wondering if anyone had any 
> recommendations for an ad blocker for my MBP?
> 
> One of my favourite sites has just become almost useless because they’ve 
> taken to slapping third party ad content all over it.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Adrienne
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Kawal,

You could try reinitialising the PRAM. To do this, first shut down your 
computer. Then, hold down the following four keys: Command, Option, letter p 
and letter r. Press the Power key and let it go, but keep holding down the four 
keys until you’ve heard the startup chime at least three times. Then, let go of 
the keys and the computer will boot as normal.
However, it’s strange that you’re having the same problem on both your 
computers. I’ve never experienced this.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 7 Aug 2016, at 11:51, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Track commander is always on and by the way, I leave both computers on 24 7 
> unless there’s an update or for some reason something isn’t working on the 
> internet.  I just want to know how to fix please?
>> On 7 Aug 2016, at 10:43, Frank Ventura > > wrote:
>> 
>> I tried this on both my iMac and my Mac Book, both running the latest OS 
>> updates and I cannot duplicate this. Is the trackpad commander turned on and 
>> maybe you hit the trackpad?
>>  
>> Frank
>>   <>
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>  ] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>> Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 1:21 AM
>> To: Macvisionaries > >
>> Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
>> Please confirm.
>>  
>> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
>> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I 
>> had to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
>>  
>> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
>> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that 
>> folder i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse 
>> pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I 
>> have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
>>  
>> Kawal.
>>  
>>  
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. > > wrote:
>>  
>>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> 
>> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
>> tomorrow.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Kawal,
>>  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> Hi.
>> 
>> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
>> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
>> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
>> not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
>> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
>> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
>> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
>> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
>> that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>> 
>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
>> Money Giving page.
>> 
>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
>> visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>> where you can
>> also sponsor me online.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> 

Re: Unmoving tweets

[Saqib Hussain]

Hi. I meant un-muting tweets. Sorry about the typo.  
> On 7 Aug 2016, at 01:46, Dora Speck  wrote:
> 
> What do you mean by "Unmoving," and "unmet?"
> If you're meaning "unfollow, just do a command plus L together and go to the 
> table. Interact with the table and find the person you want to unfollow. Do a 
> control plus option plus shift plus M together to go to the menu or just do a 
> VO plus right arrow to the right once, and it should say, "menu," hit that, 
> and go down to where it says, "unfollow."
>> On Aug 6, 2016, at 2:48 PM, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi. How do I unmet accounts that I’m following within the main twitter 
>> client for the Mac? 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> Dora Speck
> dorasp...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Question Regarding using Boothcamp on the Mac

[Helga Schreiber]

hi Simon. I just have a question, so I don't have to pay  for a bran new copy 
of windows 10  for the mac?  i'm just wondering. because someone told me that I 
need to pay $120 for windows 10  then if I want to install it on the Mac. I 
look forward to hearing from you soon and thank you so much for the steps :-)

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 9.3.4

> On Aug 7, 2016, at 5:15 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Helger,
>  
> Setting up windows 10 in bootcamp is very easy although windows installation 
> is limited accessibility due to no screan reader interaction both within 
> windows and due to no bootcamp drivers installed.
> An ISO file is an image of an installation disk, somewhat like a compressed 
> file of all windows installation files from a dvd
>  
> During the bootcamp configuration / setup bootcamp asks you for the 
> installation media which is the iso file and then a destination media which 
> should be a USB drive of some kind,
>  
> Bootcamp then downloads drivers from apple for your windows version and 
> combines them with the installer media from the ISO on to the USB device and 
> once you have setup the harddrive size that you require  and restarts your 
> machine in to the windows installation setup.
>  
> Your computer has a very limited amount of ram but enough to run windows on,
>  
> Bootcamp is a dual boot system  when windows is running your only running 
> your computer in windows, like a windows computer.
> as for the windows version you have,
> if it’s a standard windows version then yes it should work on your bootcamp 
> session,
>  
> if it’s not, then get an ISO of the same version of widnows you have and use 
> the ISO and the windows 10 key you have for your licencing,
>  
> jaws 17 and nvda will be fine in bootcamp,
> as for Office 365, if you have a licence that allows you to have it on 
> multiple dvices such as the office personal which is 5 devices  then yes you 
> can install it on a mac and a windows machine,
>  
> if you have a licence that only allows for on one device then you will be 
> able to install it on a second or in your windows machine and it will either 
> tell you it can’t be activated or it will activate your office but deactivate 
> your mac installation.
>  
> Everything else is just a standard windows computer but at the touch of a 
> button you can switch between yoru mac machine and or your windows machine..
>  
> Oh what I also meant to say was that on the USB device are the bootcamp 
> drivers for the mac book airs hardware
>  
> These drivers need to be installed to get all the windows hardware setup 
> correctly and working so until these drivers are installed you wont have such 
> things as sound for jaws or nvda.
>  
> Hope this helps.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2016 6:04 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Question Regarding using Boothcamp on the Mac
>  
> Hi all! How are you all? The subject line says it all. I know there  are some 
> specific steps in how to get boothcamp running on my Mac and so n. I will 
> really appreciate some help regarding this matter. I use a windows computer, 
> and  I'm using windows 10 onit. However, this weekend I was trying to install 
> the Aniversary upgrade of windows 10,and it fail the installation. I really 
> don't know why. I will definitely  call Micrsoft and ask them some question 
> about  my  issue. But I also want to install windows 10 on my Mac and use it 
> with JAWS 17 adn NVDA guys. Now my questions  come to this, do I need to buy 
> a brand new copy of windows 10 even though I have the Micrsoft Media creation 
> tool of the  Windows 10 Upgrade Aniversary update?  I'm just wondering. I 
> read online some instructions of apple support that I need to have an iSo 
> file of micrsoft. What is the iSo file? And now my other question is, if I 
> install windows 10 on my mac and use it with boothcamp, will I be able to 
> modify my keyboard,and have a numpad keys as I have it on windows,and be able 
> to do JAWS tandem with other people since I help people a lot with JAWS 
> tandem? And I also would I be able to use dropbox for windows, Adobe reader 
> DC to read PDF files, use Micrsoft word for windows to write Papers and  also 
> use Internet explorer as my default browser and so on? I'm just curious. I 

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Ray Foret jr]

Have you tried turning Voice Over off, waiting about 20 seconds or so, pressing 
Cmd+right arrow, then turning Voice Over back on again?

If you’ve tried all this, maybe time to delete the Voice Over Plist file and 
empty the trash then restart Voice Over.  I’d hate to suggest an OS re-install, 
but, you may actually need to go there.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Aug 7, 2016, at 4:51 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Track commander is always on and by the way, I leave both computers on 24 7 
> unless there’s an update or for some reason something isn’t working on the 
> internet.  I just want to know how to fix please?
>> On 7 Aug 2016, at 10:43, Frank Ventura > > wrote:
>> 
>> I tried this on both my iMac and my Mac Book, both running the latest OS 
>> updates and I cannot duplicate this. Is the trackpad commander turned on and 
>> maybe you hit the trackpad?
>>  
>> Frank
>>   <>
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>  ] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>> Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 1:21 AM
>> To: Macvisionaries > >
>> Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
>> Please confirm.
>>  
>> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
>> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I 
>> had to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
>>  
>> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
>> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that 
>> folder i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse 
>> pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I 
>> have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
>>  
>> Kawal.
>>  
>>  
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. > > wrote:
>>  
>>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> 
>> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
>> tomorrow.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Kawal,
>>  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> Hi.
>> 
>> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
>> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
>> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
>> not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
>> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
>> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
>> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
>> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
>> that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>> 
>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
>> Money Giving page.
>> 
>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
>> visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>> where you can
>> also sponsor me online.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> 

RE: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Frank Ventura]

Have you tried cycling Voiceover on and off to see if that helps? I always do 
that after an update (along with rebooting) and it seems to clear up some 
wonkiness.
Frank

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 5:52 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
Please confirm.

Track commander is always on and by the way, I leave both computers on 24 7 
unless there’s an update or for some reason something isn’t working on the 
internet.  I just want to know how to fix please?
On 7 Aug 2016, at 10:43, Frank Ventura 
> wrote:

I tried this on both my iMac and my Mac Book, both running the latest OS 
updates and I cannot duplicate this. Is the trackpad commander turned on and 
maybe you hit the trackpad?

Frank

From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 1:21 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
>
Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
Please confirm.

Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  In 
fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I had to 
turn Voice Over off on occasion.

So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and try 
and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that folder i.e. 
no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse pointer.  
That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I have checked 
everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?

Kawal.


On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. 
> wrote:

  Ok. QN will do weird things like this.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:


I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone



On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T. 
> wrote:

Kawal,
 Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com



On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
Hi.

Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
I'm fundraising for RNIB.

Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
Money Giving page.

To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBicelandwhere you can
also sponsor me online.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
To post to this group, send email to 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list 

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Track commander is always on and by the way, I leave both computers on 24 7 
unless there’s an update or for some reason something isn’t working on the 
internet.  I just want to know how to fix please?
> On 7 Aug 2016, at 10:43, Frank Ventura  
> wrote:
> 
> I tried this on both my iMac and my Mac Book, both running the latest OS 
> updates and I cannot duplicate this. Is the trackpad commander turned on and 
> maybe you hit the trackpad?
>  
> Frank
>   <>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  ] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
> Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 1:21 AM
> To: Macvisionaries  >
> Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
> Please confirm.
>  
> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I had 
> to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
>  
> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that folder 
> i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse 
> pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I 
> have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
>  
> Kawal.
>  
>  
> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T.  > wrote:
>  
>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> 
> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> 
> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
> tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T.  > wrote:
> 
> Kawal,
>  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> 
> 
> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac. When I use to use
> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
> not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap. So is
> that a bug with voice over? Please confirm.
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
> Money Giving page.
> 
> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
> visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
> where you can
> also sponsor me online.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> 
>  >.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> 
>  >.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is 

RE: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Frank Ventura]

I tried this on both my iMac and my Mac Book, both running the latest OS 
updates and I cannot duplicate this. Is the trackpad commander turned on and 
maybe you hit the trackpad?

Frank

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 1:21 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
Please confirm.

Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  In 
fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I had to 
turn Voice Over off on occasion.

So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and try 
and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that folder i.e. 
no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse pointer.  
That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I have checked 
everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?

Kawal.


On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. 
> wrote:

  Ok. QN will do weird things like this.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone


On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T. 
> wrote:

Kawal,
 Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
Hi.

Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
I'm fundraising for RNIB.

Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
Money Giving page.

To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can
also sponsor me online.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
To post to this group, send email to 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
The following information is important for all members of the 

RE: Question Regarding using Boothcamp on the Mac

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Helger,

Setting up windows 10 in bootcamp is very easy although windows installation is 
limited accessibility due to no screan reader interaction both within windows 
and due to no bootcamp drivers installed.
An ISO file is an image of an installation disk, somewhat like a compressed 
file of all windows installation files from a dvd

During the bootcamp configuration / setup bootcamp asks you for the 
installation media which is the iso file and then a destination media which 
should be a USB drive of some kind,

Bootcamp then downloads drivers from apple for your windows version and 
combines them with the installer media from the ISO on to the USB device and 
once you have setup the harddrive size that you require  and restarts your 
machine in to the windows installation setup.

Your computer has a very limited amount of ram but enough to run windows on,

Bootcamp is a dual boot system  when windows is running your only running your 
computer in windows, like a windows computer.
as for the windows version you have,
if it’s a standard windows version then yes it should work on your bootcamp 
session,

if it’s not, then get an ISO of the same version of widnows you have and use 
the ISO and the windows 10 key you have for your licencing,

jaws 17 and nvda will be fine in bootcamp,
as for Office 365, if you have a licence that allows you to have it on multiple 
dvices such as the office personal which is 5 devices  then yes you can install 
it on a mac and a windows machine,

if you have a licence that only allows for on one device then you will be able 
to install it on a second or in your windows machine and it will either tell 
you it can’t be activated or it will activate your office but deactivate your 
mac installation.

Everything else is just a standard windows computer but at the touch of a 
button you can switch between yoru mac machine and or your windows machine..

Oh what I also meant to say was that on the USB device are the bootcamp drivers 
for the mac book airs hardware

These drivers need to be installed to get all the windows hardware setup 
correctly and working so until these drivers are installed you wont have such 
things as sound for jaws or nvda.

Hope this helps.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2016 6:04 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Question Regarding using Boothcamp on the Mac

Hi all! How are you all? The subject line says it all. I know there  are some 
specific steps in how to get boothcamp running on my Mac and so n. I will 
really appreciate some help regarding this matter. I use a windows computer, 
and  I'm using windows 10 onit. However, this weekend I was trying to install 
the Aniversary upgrade of windows 10,and it fail the installation. I really 
don't know why. I will definitely  call Micrsoft and ask them some question 
about  my  issue. But I also want to install windows 10 on my Mac and use it 
with JAWS 17 adn NVDA guys. Now my questions  come to this, do I need to buy a 
brand new copy of windows 10 even though I have the Micrsoft Media creation 
tool of the  Windows 10 Upgrade Aniversary update?  I'm just wondering. I read 
online some instructions of apple support that I need to have an iSo file of 
micrsoft. What is the iSo file? And now my other question is, if I install 
windows 10 on my mac and use it with boothcamp, will I be able to modify my 
keyboard,and have a numpad keys as I have it on windows,and be able to do JAWS 
tandem with other people since I help people a lot with JAWS tandem? And I also 
would I be able to use dropbox for windows, Adobe reader DC to read PDF files, 
use Micrsoft word for windows to write Papers and  also use Internet explorer 
as my default browser and so on? I'm just curious. I know I can use pages to do 
school  work and use micrsoft word  for windows, but I'm still learning how  to 
use Pages, and  I want to be able to switch between these  operating systems if 
necessary for school purposes.   I know that I am not able to switch between 
operating systems since I am not using VM ware fusion, and I'm using boothcamp. 
The reason I want to use windows 10 on my Mac is because my windows computer is 
almost four years old,adn is giving me soem issues and so on. And one last 
question, if I have office 365 version 2016 on my windows computer, I don't 
have  to  purchase it again if I want to have it on my Mac right?  And just to 
let you  know I have a Macbook Air 11 inches computer late 2015 with 4 ram of 
gigs.  I apologize for this long message! I look forward in hearing from you 
soon with some suggestions regrding this matter. Thanks so much and God bless!

Helga Schreiber

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950
Email: 

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Ray Foret jr]

No trouble here and I’m  running a 2009 Mac book Pro with 10.11.6 and all set 
to list view.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Aug 7, 2016, at 12:20 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I had 
> to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
> 
> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that folder 
> i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse 
> pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I 
> have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> 
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
>>> tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Kawal,
  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
> not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
> that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
> Money Giving page.
> 
> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
> visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can
> also sponsor me online.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 

Fwd: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Kawal Gucukoglu 
> Subject: Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. 
> Please confirm.
> Date: 7 August 2016 at 06:20:37 BST
> To: Macvisionaries 
> Reply-To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I had 
> to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
> 
> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that folder 
> i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse 
> pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I 
> have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> 
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
>>> tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Kawal,
  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
> not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
> that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
> Money Giving page.
> 
> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
> visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can
> also sponsor me online.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for 

Re: a bug in Voice Over, Writing text when creating new folders. Please confirm.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I have the same problem doing this on my MacMini a late 2014 model.  Everything 
is set up the same as my IMac, 27 Inch late 2012.

Thanks.

Kawal.
> On 7 Aug 2016, at 06:20, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Quick Nav turned off.  I always make sure it’s off before doing something.  
> In fact after this update, Voice Over was acting strangely at times and I had 
> to turn Voice Over off on occasion.
> 
> So I tried creating another folder and I can tell you, when I create on and 
> try and write the folder name, Voice Over is not even focusing on that folder 
> i.e. no edit text and I have my voice Over cursor following the mouse 
> pointer.  That’s the first thing I do when I set up my Mac from scratch.  I 
> have checked everything in voice over utilities.  Anyone?
> 
> Kawal.
> 
> 
>> On 6 Aug 2016, at 22:44, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>>   Ok. QN will do weird things like this.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> On 8/6/2016 2:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> I am not sure. As I am not in front of my computer. Will let you all know 
>>> tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 6 Aug 2016, at 10:31 pm, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Kawal,
  Is Quick Nav enabled by any chance?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 8/6/2016 12:32 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Earlier on I had to create a new folder on my Mac.  When I use to use
> Yosemite, I had no problem creating folders.  However today when I tried
> creating a folder and writing the name of the folder, Voice Over would
> not let me.  So I had to leave it as untitled, paste in the files that I
> wanted to put in that folder, close the Browser, reopen the Home
> Directory, locate the untitled folder name, press enter and then delete
> that untitled folder name and then finally put in my name of choice.
> Before I could do that automatically but not do it in Youcap.  So is
> that a bug with voice over?  Please confirm.
> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
> 
> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin
> Money Giving page.
> 
> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please
> visit http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can
> also sponsor me online.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns 

Question Regarding using Boothcamp on the Mac

[Helga Schreiber]

Hi all! How are you all? The subject line says it all. I know there  are some 
specific steps in how to get boothcamp running on my Mac and so n. I will 
really appreciate some help regarding this matter. I use a windows computer, 
and  I'm using windows 10 onit. However, this weekend I was trying to install 
the Aniversary upgrade of windows 10,and it fail the installation. I really 
don't know why. I will definitely  call Micrsoft and ask them some question 
about  my  issue. But I also want to install windows 10 on my Mac and use it 
with JAWS 17 adn NVDA guys. Now my questions  come to this, do I need to buy a 
brand new copy of windows 10 even though I have the Micrsoft Media creation 
tool of the  Windows 10 Upgrade Aniversary update?  I'm just wondering. I read 
online some instructions of apple support that I need to have an iSo file of 
micrsoft. What is the iSo file? And now my other question is, if I install 
windows 10 on my mac and use it with boothcamp, will I be able to modify my 
keyboard,and have a numpad keys as I have it on windows,and be able to do JAWS 
tandem with other people since I help people a lot with JAWS tandem? And I also 
would I be able to use dropbox for windows, Adobe reader DC to read PDF files, 
use Micrsoft word for windows to write Papers and  also use Internet explorer 
as my default browser and so on? I'm just curious. I know I can use pages to do 
school  work and use micrsoft word  for windows, but I'm still learning how  to 
use Pages, and  I want to be able to switch between these  operating systems if 
necessary for school purposes.   I know that I am not able to switch between 
operating systems since I am not using VM ware fusion, and I'm using boothcamp. 
The reason I want to use windows 10 on my Mac is because my windows computer is 
almost four years old,adn is giving me soem issues and so on. And one last 
question, if I have office 365 version 2016 on my windows computer, I don't 
have  to  purchase it again if I want to have it on my Mac right?  And just to 
let you  know I have a Macbook Air 11 inches computer late 2015 with 4 ram of 
gigs.  I apologize for this long message! I look forward in hearing from you 
soon with some suggestions regrding this matter. Thanks so much and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 9.3.3

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.