Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Joseph Hudson]

Hi, I'm definitely not dead but I will definitely speak up for you. Just 
because I've talk to you on the phone a few times. I know damn well, that you 
worked extremely hard on communicating with the wonderful people and yeah I 
agree comments weren't necessary like that whatsoever you want to put the 
developers down, you muzzle put yourself down if you are one. And if not you 
shouldn't talk especially, if you're not beta testing/ and IOS developer. Now 
you're one of those people, and then you might have something to say like that. 
But otherwise, you really don't. I believe the beta testers/ developers, Worth 
a darn hardest to communicate with he makers and builders of the software in 
their respective ways and make sure that you know everything is well 
implemented. I believe that Apple tries to putting, as much Time as I possibly 
can into one operating system. If there's a feature that doesn't make eat you 
can almost guarantee that it's going to be in the next release. So  before 
making comments like that one, you should think about how much time Apple spins 
putting everything together and what might be included. Oh and for after all, 
the software is free to you. As long as you on the device. So if you don't like 
it, throw it away.
Joseph Hudson 
Group administrator for the following
groups
chat
http://list.ntxability.org/mailman/listinfo/chat_list.ntxability.org 

blind apples
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindapples_cruising.ultragroups.com
 


blind square GPS
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindsquaregps_cruising.ultragroups.com
 


 blind handyman
http://cruising.ultragroups.com/mailman/listinfo/blindhandyman_cruising.ultragroups.com
 


iPad help for the blind
https://groups.io/g/IPadhelpfortheblind 


Email
jhud7...@gmail.com 
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 

Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 8:26 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Excuse me, Cheree.  that was profoundly disrespectful, not to mention 
> downright insulting to us devs, me being one of them.  Let me tell you 
> something.  We devs did! try getting on Apple about stuff like this.  I did 
> so in iOS 9, and I even more so did in this iOS 10 update beta cycle.  Trust 
> me.  I was on the 10 beta from June 30th, when it was announced at WWDC until 
> now.  I've ever since had at least one of my devices on 10.
>  
> I've reported bug after bug after bug to them.  I've worked countless hours 
> to the sweat of my brow! trying to explain these things to them, but no 
> sollution was ever made.  So don't be putting the blame on us devs, OK?  
> We've done our damdest! to make this new version of OSX, TVOS, Watch OS, and 
> iOS as  wonderful as possible.  The thing is, once we make the bug reports 
> through the bugreporter bug tracker, we really don't then have much of a say 
> past that point.  If Apple fixes it, great, if not, well, we've done our 
> parts by reporting it.
>  
> Now, if us devs just saw the bug and ignored it, then therefore it was 
> released buggy, then, I'd totally give this message to you, but, hunttauhh.  
> I'm not lettin' you have this.  I'm sorry.  Us devs deserve more credit, and 
> respect!  We really, really really did try!
>  
> Can another person on this list who's a dev and paid the 99 for the iOS 10 
> cycle please speak up and advocate for us all here as well?  This is just 
> wrong!
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Cheree Heppe 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes
>> 
>> You developers and designers, changers and alter era can flick yourselves 
>> into you-know-where regarding this change to mail on iOS.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>> 
>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If 

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Mary Otten]

What is streamline and what is intuitive? The first time you used a touch 
device, I daresay, you did not find it intuitive. I know I didn't. Now you and 
I are used to using the Mail app, for instance, in a certain way. What if it 
could be pointed out to you, as David did in his post, how to efficiently use 
the Mail app in a different way? Why is that less intuitive than what you are 
used to? It is change. It is not necessarily less intuitive. We're iPhone Apple 
is in not coming out with the documentation to let us know about this stuff 
when they release the final OS. Fiddling around is for beta testers. When you 
release a final product which is supposed to be accessible, you need to dot the 
eyes and cross the tease, and let us know how it is different in terms of our 
particular accessibility needs. That goes with the territory of universal 
design. I know reading is out of fashion out with specially with the younger 
generation. But a little bit of documentation goes a long way.
 A picture is not necessarily worth a few words, especially when you're dealing 
with someone who can't see the freaking picture.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
> 
> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined functionality, 
> such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, namely OS.
> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The iOS 
> represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.  Among 
> the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to be 
> forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This mail issue 
> mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make simpler, 
> to add features.
> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release 
> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or 
> easily usable.
> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that 
> clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs.  It 
> is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the more 
> modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round.
> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.  
> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, 
> insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing 
> something that could and did change the world for us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>> 
>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
>> vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
>> horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the 
>> delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the 
>> thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and 
>> individual messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. 
>> In other words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message 
>> list screen.
>> 
>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
>> expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
>> expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the 
>> messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have 
>> become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of 
>> frustration to become used to this new system.
>> 
>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
>> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and 
>> want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:
>>> 
>>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have 
>>> to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
>>> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
>>> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and 
>>> pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from 
>>> message to message gone in ios10?
>>> Also how

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Mary Otten]

I'm not actually sure how different this is for sighted people. The only 
sighted person I know, make that two people, who have I devices, haven't 
upgraded yet. So in terms of design, it may be that it visually resembles the 
Mac, but it may also be that the change is no big deal for decided folks. And 
it may also be that once we understand how this deal works, it will be fine. 
We're Apple dropped the ball, as I said before, is in not providing some 
thorough explanation of the most efficient ways to deal with the new system, 
rather than leaving us to fumble around and try to figure it out for ourselves, 
which, when you're used to doing things one way and can't see, can be a hell of 
a lot harder than it is for the average sighted person who isn't over 75. And 
Scott, to be fair, your galaxy experience was at least two years old. Not 
saying you won't have the same experience now. But please don't do like the 
Apple haters on the android list do and reference experience from three or four 
years ago.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Cheree, you’re not going anywhere.  Even if you don’t like the change in 
> mail.  If you think that’s tricky try using Android.  Android is a joke of an 
> operating system in comparison.  If for example you want to use the web or 
> expect stability, expect to get your security patched and updates and even 
> expect  consistent experience then you’ll just hate android.
> 
> Here’s a practical example.  T-Mobile had a problem in IOS 10, it took them 
> about 48 hours to push an update to all the phones and correct their problem. 
>  If this was the google world the update would be pushed to phones based on 
> each individual vendor’s timeline, which in the case of Samsung for example 
> may have taken months.  Samsung has been as much as a year out of date in 
> releasing updates of the OS.
> 
> Don’t even get me started on windows and that after thought of an screen 
> reader situation.
> 
> I had such a bad experience with a Galaxy phone i actually took it to the 
> firing range and put a 308 round through the phone.  It rebooted one to many 
> times during a phone interview to live.;)
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
>> 
>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined 
>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, 
>> namely OS.
>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The iOS 
>> represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.  Among 
>> the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to 
>> be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This mail 
>> issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make 
>> simpler, to add features.
>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release 
>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or 
>> easily usable.
>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that 
>> clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs.  It 
>> is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the more 
>> modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round.
>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.  
>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, 
>> insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing 
>> something that could and did change the world for us.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>> 
>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, 
>>> single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. 
>>> Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. 
>>> Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all 
>>> messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between 
>>> threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, 
>>> and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger 
>>> horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
>>> 
>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must 
>>> be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical 
>>> flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all 
>>> the messages i

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Mary Otten]

OK, Scott. But weren't you going to try a more recent android experience?
Mary
 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:46 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Michael you’re right and just try using Android.  It’s like getting a 
> prostate exam from Captain Hook.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:40 PM, michael babcock  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone.
>> All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means 
>> nothing honestly.
>> Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone 
>> business and the people who do like there products and services obviously 
>> pay more.
>> What is a Mac in most cases?
>> A PC…
>> A Personal Computer … 
>> But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will 
>> continue paying for them.
>> I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there 
>> updates, and just had to say, so what…
>> Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that 
>> phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc.
>> #choices.
>> And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i 
>> couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He 
>> didn’t know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released 
>> helped me a lot.
>> Thanks for reading my rant.
>> Best.
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
>>> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is 
>>> what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
>>> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
>>> 
>>> Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
>>> Applevis.
>>> 
>>> How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
>>> sure outruns Windows.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
 It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
 functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
 system, namely OS.
 If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
 iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
 Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
 If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
 to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
 mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
 to make simpler, to add features.
 My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
 notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
 or easily usable.
 It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
 that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
 iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
 to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
 way round.
 Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
 There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
 rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own 
 good.
 I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
 losing something that could and did change the world for us.
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden >>> > wrote:
 
> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
> looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
> 
> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
> the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
> thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
> view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
> messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
> message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
> deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
> moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
> belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
> as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
> 
> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
> must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger
> vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is
> unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like
> non-thread messages. Now tha

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Mary Otten]

 I think where Apple could do better would be in releasing some documentation 
regarding how voiceover users are supposed to deal with things that have 
substantially changed. I don't agree that things have to stay the same. And 
David's discussion of how to deal with the email was very good. I think that 
Apple should do that. I also think that Apple should update their documentation 
on commands, Bluetooth, braille display etc. One of the things about making a 
commitment to accessibility is to realize that for people who can. See, dealing 
with the changes to the interface may be a lot easier then for people who 
can't. That's why they need to employ people who get that, since your average 
designer doesn't. There are a lot of things that become immediately clear 
decided people because they can take in the entire interface at once and 
understand how to deal with it. That's not so easy if you can't do that.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:47 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
> 
> That's nonsense.
> I pay exactly the same amount for my Apple products as anyone else.
> Apple claims universal design.
> When design changes or functional alterations lose the way, that isn't about 
> somebody pays more, that's about somebody misunderstanding universal design.
> Luckily, not all sighted people think as you and some others have quoted, or 
> the disabled and blind would still be sitting by coal scuttles and weaving 
> baskets to the tune of you are a minority and don't count.
> Drop the doctored rehab drivel and embrace universal design, not change for 
> its own sake.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:40, michael babcock  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone.
>> All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means 
>> nothing honestly.
>> Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone 
>> business and the people who do like there products and services obviously 
>> pay more.
>> What is a Mac in most cases?
>> A PC…
>> A Personal Computer … 
>> But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will 
>> continue paying for them.
>> I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there 
>> updates, and just had to say, so what…
>> Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that 
>> phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc.
>> #choices.
>> And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i 
>> couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He 
>> didn’t know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released 
>> helped me a lot.
>> Thanks for reading my rant.
>> Best.
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
>>> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is 
>>> what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
>>> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
>>> 
>>>  Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
>>> Applevis.
>>> 
>>>  How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
>>> sure outruns Windows.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
 It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
 functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
 system, namely OS.
 If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
 iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
 Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
 If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
 to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
 mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
 to make simpler, to add features.
 My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
 notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
 or easily usable.
 It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
 that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
 iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
 to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
 way round.
 Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
 There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
 rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own 
 good.
 I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
 losing something that could and did change the world for us.
 

Re: Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation

[Mary Otten]

Oh good. Looking forward to it. Even though my phone is a few weeks away.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone, following on from our wrap of last week's Apple event, this 
> week's episode of The Blind Side Podcast features a comprehensive unboxing, 
> setting up, and then exploration of the new iPhone 7 Plus.
> If you'd like to take a listen, subscribe to The Blind Side Podcast in any 
> good podcatcher, or you can hear it on Sound Cloud via this URL.
> https://soundcloud.com/theblindsidepodcast/episode6
> Hope you find it interesting.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Audio of my iPhone 7 Plus unboxing/familiarisation

[Jonathan Mosen]

Hi everyone, following on from our wrap of last week's Apple event, this week's 
episode of The Blind Side Podcast features a comprehensive unboxing, setting 
up, and then exploration of the new iPhone 7 Plus.
If you'd like to take a listen, subscribe to The Blind Side Podcast in any good 
podcatcher, or you can hear it on Sound Cloud via this URL.
https://soundcloud.com/theblindsidepodcast/episode6 

Hope you find it interesting.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: in public defense of those who beta test Apple software

[maurice.mines]

Good evening, I too have been a beta tester for the last three summers. I 
almost didn’t do it this summer because for the first time I am actually really 
very much deaf blind these days. But the good far outweighed any of my 
concerns. And like the person when responding to I don’t discuss what’s in 
prerelease software. The only time I will do it is when it can be done very 
discreetly and handled in a professional manner i.e. with a developer of a 
major piece of adaptive software. In other words what I’m getting at here is 
that if I have to discuss something that can be harmful to us as blind people 
with a developer, with the understanding that the discussion doesn’t leave us, 
that is the only instance when I break a nondisclosure agreement. Because many 
moons ago I used to administrate over a beta test program, I don’t know how me 
on this list remember the old outspoken software title, remember that it was 
for the very old McIntosh computers, and up until Windows 95 was also run on 
those computers as well. I was asked in addition to doing tech support stuff at 
one time to administrate over a beta test program, and the only folks I laden 
were engineers, and other professionals long with talking over with my boss at 
the time when the availing folks we approved were professional strictly because 
of some of what we are discussing on the list. And the concerns about what some 
major disability related pod casters choose to do, most of them if they’re 
smart clear their podcasts with the vendors in question before they release 
podcasts that share proprietary information. Or at least, I hope they do that 
would just be good common sense to avoid a potential lawsuit. However I 
certainly agree with Ray, it is certainly up to the company that has imposed 
the nondisclosure agreement on a beta tester to enforce it. The problem here is 
the court of public opinion. The media sometimes put stories out that big stent 
looked like society is nailing a disabled person, without sharing the full 
story. And so that can sometimes make a company look bad, when it was the 
customers fault that something happened. So I think some of apples appearance 
of not enforcing their nondisclosure agreement, is simply because you don’t 
want bad press. It also depends on the severity of the breach of 
confidentiality if it’s a minor feature that leaks, then it’s probably no big 
deal. But if it’s a large feature a.k.a. most of the company’s core business 
necessity, they are definitely going to come down on some money who does that 
because not all companies are the size of Apple, and/or Microsoft used for 
example here, particularly in the adaptive technology world, most companies are 
very small. So breaking a nondisclosure agreement most companies in our field 
can even mean to accompany going out of business. I guess the moral of the very 
lengthy story is this, think before you start spilling the beans. Who are you 
really benefiting, and are you hurting the disability comunity more than 
helping, because companies like Apple who make public betas available might 
think twice about letting those of us in the adaptive technology field, and the 
disability community in general beta test something if they feel that they’re 
being taken advantage of it takes years to get goodwill from large corporations 
like Apple and Microsoft. Let’s not go out and destroy that goodwill because 
that’s how we get whatever we want to get done on our computers goodwill and 
the law a.k.a. let’s keep the bridge there not blow the bridge up so that 
already have is the bottom of whatever body of water that which was once over. 
The end

Sincerely Maurice mines.
note that the text of my comments have been dictated to the computer by using 
Dragon version 6 for Mac OS. If there in the text that I’ve dictated to the 
computer, those errors may be caused by problems with the process of dictating 
the text to the computer, or the software configuration itself. If there’s 
something you didn’t understand that I’ve written,. Please ask me what my 
original intent was? I will do my very best to clear up any misunderstandings.
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
> 
> I may have only tested the public betas, but, I’m totally going to stand for 
> Chris and the other Devs here who were always one step ahead of me.  IF not 
> for their pioneering work on all this. what we have now might:  and indeed 
> would be, much much more seriously flawed.  I think we who tested the public 
> betas have something to say to this also, for you see, I was one of them and 
> continue to be.  Now, I want to say something else that I feel is in 
> connection with all this.  Some say we who test the public betas can in fact 
> discuss what we find in public before the final release.  You could not be 
> more in error!!!  Obviously, you don’t know what you are  talking about.  
> Have you bothered to read the terms of agreement that all beta testers, (

in public defense of those who beta test Apple software

[Ray Foret jr]

I may have only tested the public betas, but, I’m totally going to stand for 
Chris and the other Devs here who were always one step ahead of me.  IF not for 
their pioneering work on all this. what we have now might:  and indeed would 
be, much much more seriously flawed.  I think we who tested the public betas 
have something to say to this also, for you see, I was one of them and continue 
to be.  Now, I want to say something else that I feel is in connection with all 
this.  Some say we who test the public betas can in fact discuss what we find 
in public before the final release.  You could not be more in error!!!  
Obviously, you don’t know what you are  talking about.  Have you bothered to 
read the terms of agreement that all beta testers, (dev and public alike) must 
agree to?  No?  Well, permit me to summarize them for you.  We cannot say a 
thing about what we are finding.  We’re strictly forbidden to show you non 
testers in any way what it is we are working on.  If you think you have so much 
to say, you either pay the developer fee or test the public beta.  Until then, 
shut up!  I’m coming out here in such strong defense of dev and public beta 
testers because I have gone through just about an entire summer of putting up 
with idiotic fools whoo have NO respect for non disclosure agreements and the 
seriousness with which such things MUST be taken.  True, not everyone on this 
list is like that:  in fact, I suspect that most on this particular list 
understand my point of view on this matter.  But on VORail, (yes I am being 
specific about the place where most of this stupidity lives) it seemed to reign 
supreme.  I’m sure I speak for Chris and the other devs and for the other 
public beta testers here when I say that when we say we cannot discuss 
something, you’d damn well better take us seriously because we damn well take 
Apple’s non disclosure agreements very very seriously.  If stupid sighted 
people on podcasts can’t be bother to take such things seriously and go  
blabbing about what they find, that’s their problem.  Also, frankly, it’s not 
much help to us if Apple doesn’t enforce their own non disclosure agreements.  
Well, let the rest blab if they want to:  I, for my part, will NOT.  
Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 8:26 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Excuse me, Cheree.  that was profoundly disrespectful, not to mention 
> downright insulting to us devs, me being one of them.  Let me tell you 
> something.  We devs did! try getting on Apple about stuff like this.  I did 
> so in iOS 9, and I even more so did in this iOS 10 update beta cycle.  Trust 
> me.  I was on the 10 beta from June 30th, when it was announced at WWDC until 
> now.  I've ever since had at least one of my devices on 10.
>  
> I've reported bug after bug after bug to them.  I've worked countless hours 
> to the sweat of my brow! trying to explain these things to them, but no 
> sollution was ever made.  So don't be putting the blame on us devs, OK?  
> We've done our damdest! to make this new version of OSX, TVOS, Watch OS, and 
> iOS as  wonderful as possible.  The thing is, once we make the bug reports 
> through the bugreporter bug tracker, we really don't then have much of a say 
> past that point.  If Apple fixes it, great, if not, well, we've done our 
> parts by reporting it.
>  
> Now, if us devs just saw the bug and ignored it, then therefore it was 
> released buggy, then, I'd totally give this message to you, but, hunttauhh.  
> I'm not lettin' you have this.  I'm sorry.  Us devs deserve more credit, and 
> respect!  We really, really really did try!
>  
> Can another person on this list who's a dev and paid the 99 for the iOS 10 
> cycle please speak up and advocate for us all here as well?  This is just 
> wrong!
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Cheree Heppe 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes
>> 
>> You developers and designers, changers and alter era can flick yourselves 
>> into you-know-where regarding this change to mail on iOS.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>> 
>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>>>

RE: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[M. Taylor]

No Problem, Scott, and thank you.

Before posting these to the list, I always submit them via the Bug Reporter but 
I find it helpful to add voices to the chorus, as it were.

You know, as of iOS 10, I closed 4 bug reports as they were finally, and I do 
mean, finally resolved.  For example, the ability to zoom the camera's view 
finder, when taking a picture was, after almost 2 years or so, resolved.  It 
had not worked since iOS 7.

Now, if they would only implement reverse panning for Braille displays ...  
(smile).

Mark  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 5:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug 
Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

Cut, paste and sent.  Great catch Mark.  Glad you are raising these 
accessibility concerns on list.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple 
> regarding the fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts 
> listed in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete 
> buttons are no longer VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using 
> the VoiceOver Rotor, one can delete a Contact from this list, however 
> the Delete button displayed to the left of each individual Contact item is 
> inaccessible.
> 
> I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it 
> into a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.
> 
> [BEGIN REPORT]
> Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver 
> Accessible in iOS 10.
> 
> In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user 
> cannot reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.
> 
> To reproduce this bug:
> 
> 1.
> Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.
> 
> 2.
> With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.
> 
> 3.
> Select the Favorites Tab.
> 
> 4.
> Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the display.
> 
> 5.
> Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are 
> not VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete 
> controls are also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
> [END REPORT]
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message

Youtube on the Mac

[E.T.]

   On occasion I will download a video on my Windows then send it to 
the Mac and covert it.


   Is there a similar process for this on the Mac?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

That is one area Android does excel.  The customizability is nice especially 
with things being so open but the fighting with the accessibility tools and 
instability just ain’t worth the openness.  Although, Victor and the rest of 
the talkback team are definitely heading in the right direction.  It’s still 
years behind apple but maybe someday it will be a viable option.

I do like the off switches apple puts in though, that’s a great point.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> I actually think Apple does better than the alternatives for accessibility. I 
> don't have a clue what to do with  a lot of the new features and user 
> interface changes. But there's an on / off switch for everything. If I ever 
> find a use for these features I don't understand, then I can re-enable them. 
> Just use what you like. These devices are trying to be made usable for what 
> they believe to be the common user. I'm not that so I will not complain if I 
> don't like the way something works. I'll just tweak things to work in a sane 
> way and enjoy the things that are working.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Blee Blat]

I actually think Apple does better than the alternatives for accessibility. I 
don't have a clue what to do with  a lot of the new features and user interface 
changes. But there's an on / off switch for everything. If I ever find a use 
for these features I don't understand, then I can re-enable them. Just use what 
you like. These devices are trying to be made usable for what they believe to 
be the common user. I'm not that so I will not complain if I don't like the way 
something works. I'll just tweak things to work in a sane way and enjoy the 
things that are working.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

Yes, I’m a huge gun collector and fire arms enthusiast.  Hazards of being 
raised by a Marine.  I like blowing things up and shooting inanimate objects.  
Phones that don’t behave are fun, so are propane tanks. Lol but off topic so 
I’ll stop here.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:51 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
> 
> Firing range??
> LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:44, Scott Granados  > wrote:
> 
>> Cheree, you’re not going anywhere.  Even if you don’t like the change in 
>> mail.  If you think that’s tricky try using Android.  Android is a joke of 
>> an operating system in comparison.  If for example you want to use the web 
>> or expect stability, expect to get your security patched and updates and 
>> even expect  consistent experience then you’ll just hate android.
>> 
>> Here’s a practical example.  T-Mobile had a problem in IOS 10, it took them 
>> about 48 hours to push an update to all the phones and correct their 
>> problem.  If this was the google world the update would be pushed to phones 
>> based on each individual vendor’s timeline, which in the case of Samsung for 
>> example may have taken months.  Samsung has been as much as a year out of 
>> date in releasing updates of the OS.
>> 
>> Don’t even get me started on windows and that after thought of an screen 
>> reader situation.
>> 
>> I had such a bad experience with a Galaxy phone i actually took it to the 
>> firing range and put a 308 round through the phone.  It rebooted one to many 
>> times during a phone interview to live.;)
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Cheree Heppe >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined 
>>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, 
>>> namely OS.
>>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The iOS 
>>> represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.  Among 
>>> the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to 
>>> be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This mail 
>>> issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make 
>>> simpler, to add features.
>>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release 
>>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or 
>>> easily usable.
>>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that 
>>> clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs.  
>>> It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the 
>>> more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round.
>>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.  
>>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, 
>>> insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing 
>>> something that could and did change the world for us.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
 much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
 
 When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
 same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
 activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, 
 single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. 
 Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. 
 Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all 
 messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between 
 threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, 
 and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger 
 horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
 
 If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must 
 be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical 
 flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all 
 the messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that 
 I have become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few 
 hours of frustration to become used to this new system.
 
 I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for 
 iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen 
 and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
 M

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Cheree Heppe]

Firing range??
LOL


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:44, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Cheree, you’re not going anywhere.  Even if you don’t like the change in 
> mail.  If you think that’s tricky try using Android.  Android is a joke of an 
> operating system in comparison.  If for example you want to use the web or 
> expect stability, expect to get your security patched and updates and even 
> expect  consistent experience then you’ll just hate android.
> 
> Here’s a practical example.  T-Mobile had a problem in IOS 10, it took them 
> about 48 hours to push an update to all the phones and correct their problem. 
>  If this was the google world the update would be pushed to phones based on 
> each individual vendor’s timeline, which in the case of Samsung for example 
> may have taken months.  Samsung has been as much as a year out of date in 
> releasing updates of the OS.
> 
> Don’t even get me started on windows and that after thought of an screen 
> reader situation.
> 
> I had such a bad experience with a Galaxy phone i actually took it to the 
> firing range and put a 308 round through the phone.  It rebooted one to many 
> times during a phone interview to live.;)
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
>> 
>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined 
>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, 
>> namely OS.
>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The iOS 
>> represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.  Among 
>> the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to 
>> be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This mail 
>> issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make 
>> simpler, to add features.
>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release 
>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or 
>> easily usable.
>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that 
>> clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs.  It 
>> is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the more 
>> modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round.
>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.  
>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, 
>> insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing 
>> something that could and did change the world for us.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>> 
>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, 
>>> single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. 
>>> Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. 
>>> Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all 
>>> messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between 
>>> threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, 
>>> and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger 
>>> horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
>>> 
>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must 
>>> be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical 
>>> flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all 
>>> the messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I 
>>> have become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few 
>>> hours of frustration to become used to this new system.
>>> 
>>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
>>> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and 
>>> want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:
 
 message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
 longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have 
 to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
 thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message 
 in the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next 
 and pre me

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

Sorry CHeree, you’re on the pipe on this one and dead wrong.

Where are you going to go, to the fragmented world of android?

Use the different finger move and progress forward.  I was unhappy until I read 
David’s response with some good detailed usage tips and it’s smoothed out a 
lot.  Use android for a day though that will show you the error of your ways.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:47 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
> 
> That's nonsense.
> I pay exactly the same amount for my Apple products as anyone else.
> Apple claims universal design.
> When design changes or functional alterations lose the way, that isn't about 
> somebody pays more, that's about somebody misunderstanding universal design.
> Luckily, not all sighted people think as you and some others have quoted, or 
> the disabled and blind would still be sitting by coal scuttles and weaving 
> baskets to the tune of you are a minority and don't count.
> Drop the doctored rehab drivel and embrace universal design, not change for 
> its own sake.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:40, michael babcock  > wrote:
> 
>> Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone.
>> All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means 
>> nothing honestly.
>> Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone 
>> business and the people who do like there products and services obviously 
>> pay more.
>> What is a Mac in most cases?
>> A PC…
>> A Personal Computer … 
>> But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will 
>> continue paying for them.
>> I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there 
>> updates, and just had to say, so what…
>> Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that 
>> phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc.
>> #choices.
>> And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i 
>> couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He 
>> didn’t know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released 
>> helped me a lot.
>> Thanks for reading my rant.
>> Best.
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
>>> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is 
>>> what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
>>> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
>>> 
>>>  Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
>>> Applevis.
>>> 
>>>  How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
>>> sure outruns Windows.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
 It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
 functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
 system, namely OS.
 If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
 iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
 Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
 If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
 to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
 mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
 to make simpler, to add features.
 My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
 notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
 or easily usable.
 It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
 that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
 iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
 to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
 way round.
 Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
 There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
 rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own 
 good.
 I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
 losing something that could and did change the world for us.
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden >>> 
 >> wrote:
 
> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
> looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
> 
> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
> the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different.

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Cheree Heppe]

That's nonsense.
I pay exactly the same amount for my Apple products as anyone else.
Apple claims universal design.
When design changes or functional alterations lose the way, that isn't about 
somebody pays more, that's about somebody misunderstanding universal design.
Luckily, not all sighted people think as you and some others have quoted, or 
the disabled and blind would still be sitting by coal scuttles and weaving 
baskets to the tune of you are a minority and don't count.
Drop the doctored rehab drivel and embrace universal design, not change for its 
own sake.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:40, michael babcock  
> wrote:
> 
> Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone.
> All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means 
> nothing honestly.
> Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone 
> business and the people who do like there products and services obviously pay 
> more.
> What is a Mac in most cases?
> A PC…
> A Personal Computer … 
> But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will 
> continue paying for them.
> I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there 
> updates, and just had to say, so what…
> Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that 
> phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc.
> #choices.
> And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i 
> couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He didn’t 
> know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released helped me 
> a lot.
> Thanks for reading my rant.
> Best.
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
>> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is 
>> what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
>> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
>> 
>>  Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
>> Applevis.
>> 
>>  How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
>> sure outruns Windows.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
>>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
>>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
>>> system, namely OS.
>>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
>>> iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
>>> Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
>>> to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
>>> mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
>>> to make simpler, to add features.
>>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
>>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
>>> or easily usable.
>>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
>>> that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
>>> iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
>>> to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
>>> way round.
>>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
>>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
>>> rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
>>> losing something that could and did change the world for us.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
 looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
 
 When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
 the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
 thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
 view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
 messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
 message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
 deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
 moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
 belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
 as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
 
 If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
 must be expande

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[E.T.]

   You tell it to the universe. We are using a product that is 
mainstream and for the most part accessible. Please tell us what other 
company building mainstream products has better accessibility.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/15/2016 6:39 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:

No.
Disregarding working, intuitive practice for fluffy, legacy emulation is
not progress.
Tell that to the galactic Oogy Buggy.
This is a marketing problem.  If it isn't what I like or can use, it's a
marketing issue.
Tell that to the Galactic Trader's Alliance.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:30, E.T. mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>> wrote:


  Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time
adapting to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable.
If that is what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course,
jump ship. But, inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.

  Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called
Applevis.

  How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system
but it sure outruns Windows.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:

It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
system, namely OS.
If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
to make simpler, to add features.
My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
or easily usable.
It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
way round.
Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our
own good.
I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
losing something that could and did change the world for us.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>
> wrote:


Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.

When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.

If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger
vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is
unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like
non-thread messages. Now that I have become used to this new system, I
really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to become used
to this new system.

I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps
for iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love
touch-screen and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 

Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton mailto:philh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:


message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can
no longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead
I have to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of
messages in a thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into
the first message in the thread and then have to navigate between
messages using the next and pre message buttons. What a screw up this
is! is 3 finger flicking f

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

Michael you’re right and just try using Android.  It’s like getting a prostate 
exam from Captain Hook.



> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:40 PM, michael babcock  
> wrote:
> 
> Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone.
> All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means 
> nothing honestly.
> Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone 
> business and the people who do like there products and services obviously pay 
> more.
> What is a Mac in most cases?
> A PC…
> A Personal Computer … 
> But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will 
> continue paying for them.
> I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there 
> updates, and just had to say, so what…
> Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that 
> phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc.
> #choices.
> And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i 
> couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He didn’t 
> know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released helped me 
> a lot.
> Thanks for reading my rant.
> Best.
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
>> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is 
>> what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
>> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
>> 
>>  Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
>> Applevis.
>> 
>>  How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
>> sure outruns Windows.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
>>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
>>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
>>> system, namely OS.
>>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
>>> iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
>>> Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
>>> to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
>>> mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
>>> to make simpler, to add features.
>>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
>>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
>>> or easily usable.
>>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
>>> that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
>>> iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
>>> to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
>>> way round.
>>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
>>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
>>> rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
>>> losing something that could and did change the world for us.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
 looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
 
 When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
 the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
 thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
 view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
 messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
 message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
 deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
 moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
 belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
 as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
 
 If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
 must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger
 vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is
 unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like
 non-thread messages. Now that I have become used to this new system, I
 really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to become used
 to this new system.
 
 I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps
 for iOS and Mac, that we will see a full 

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

Cheree, you’re not going anywhere.  Even if you don’t like the change in mail.  
If you think that’s tricky try using Android.  Android is a joke of an 
operating system in comparison.  If for example you want to use the web or 
expect stability, expect to get your security patched and updates and even 
expect  consistent experience then you’ll just hate android.

Here’s a practical example.  T-Mobile had a problem in IOS 10, it took them 
about 48 hours to push an update to all the phones and correct their problem.  
If this was the google world the update would be pushed to phones based on each 
individual vendor’s timeline, which in the case of Samsung for example may have 
taken months.  Samsung has been as much as a year out of date in releasing 
updates of the OS.

Don’t even get me started on windows and that after thought of an screen reader 
situation.

I had such a bad experience with a Galaxy phone i actually took it to the 
firing range and put a 308 round through the phone.  It rebooted one to many 
times during a phone interview to live.;)

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
> 
> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined functionality, 
> such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, namely OS.
> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The iOS 
> represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.  Among 
> the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to be 
> forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This mail issue 
> mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make simpler, 
> to add features.
> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release 
> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or 
> easily usable.
> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that 
> clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs.  It 
> is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the more 
> modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round.
> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.  
> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, 
> insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing 
> something that could and did change the world for us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  > wrote:
> 
>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>> 
>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
>> vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
>> horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the 
>> delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the 
>> thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and 
>> individual messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. 
>> In other words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message 
>> list screen.
>> 
>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
>> expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
>> expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the 
>> messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have 
>> become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of 
>> frustration to become used to this new system.
>> 
>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
>> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and 
>> want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton > > wrote:
>> 
>>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have 
>>> to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
>>> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
>>> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and 
>>> pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from 
>>> message to message gone in ios10?
>>> Also how a

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[michael babcock]

Apple doesn’t make there products and services to work for everyone.
All this talking about leaving because you don’t like there updates, means 
nothing honestly.
Apple is doing there marketing the right way; they aren’t in the everyone 
business and the people who do like there products and services obviously pay 
more.
What is a Mac in most cases?
A PC…
A Personal Computer … 
But apple markets a Mac as a Mac and the people who want there changes will 
continue paying for them.
I’ve seen a few people say that they don’t like the way apple is doing there 
updates, and just had to say, so what…
Switch to android, back to a Nokia N82, (Side note do they still make that 
phone?), windows 10 touch phone, etc.
#choices.
And regarding the new mail problem, yes i complained to a friend that i 
couldn’t use preview in my mail and listen to part of the messages. He didn’t 
know how to get this working, however the podcast AppleVis released helped me a 
lot.
Thanks for reading my rant.
Best.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:30 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is what 
> you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
> 
>   Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
> Applevis.
> 
>   How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
> sure outruns Windows.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
>> system, namely OS.
>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
>> iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
>> Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
>> to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
>> mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
>> to make simpler, to add features.
>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
>> or easily usable.
>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
>> that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
>> iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
>> to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
>> way round.
>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
>> rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
>> losing something that could and did change the world for us.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
>>> looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>> 
>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
>>> the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
>>> thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
>>> view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
>>> messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
>>> message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
>>> deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
>>> moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
>>> belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
>>> as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
>>> 
>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
>>> must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger
>>> vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is
>>> unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like
>>> non-thread messages. Now that I have become used to this new system, I
>>> really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to become used
>>> to this new system.
>>> 
>>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps
>>> for iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love
>>> touch-screen and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil 

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Cheree Heppe]

No.
Disregarding working, intuitive practice for fluffy, legacy emulation is not 
progress.
Tell that to the galactic Oogy Buggy.
This is a marketing problem.  If it isn't what I like or can use, it's a 
marketing issue.
Tell that to the Galactic Trader's Alliance.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 18:30, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time adapting 
> to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. If that is what 
> you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, jump ship. But, 
> inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.
> 
>   Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
> Applevis.
> 
>   How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system but it 
> sure outruns Windows.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:
>> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
>> functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
>> system, namely OS.
>> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
>> iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
>> Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
>> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
>> to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
>> mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
>> to make simpler, to add features.
>> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
>> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
>> or easily usable.
>> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
>> that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
>> iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
>> to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
>> way round.
>> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
>> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
>> rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
>> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
>> losing something that could and did change the world for us.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
>>> looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>> 
>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
>>> the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
>>> thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
>>> view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
>>> messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
>>> message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
>>> deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
>>> moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
>>> belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
>>> as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
>>> 
>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
>>> must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger
>>> vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is
>>> unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like
>>> non-thread messages. Now that I have become used to this new system, I
>>> really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to become used
>>> to this new system.
>>> 
>>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps
>>> for iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love
>>> touch-screen and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton >> > wrote:
>>> 
 message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can
 no longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead
 I have to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of
 messages in a thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into
 the first message in the thread and then have to navigate between
 messages using the next and pre message buttons. What a screw up this
 is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message gone in ios10?
 Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are
 there some settings that need tweaking?
 
 
 --
 The fol

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[E.T.]

   Change is counterproductive? Perhaps to some who have a hard time 
adapting to change. But, at the end of each day, change is inevitable. 
If that is what you deem as force, well, the solution is, of course, 
jump ship. But, inevitable there as well. the cycle repeats itself.


   Release notes of sorts can be found at the wonderful resource called 
Applevis.


   How long have you been using OS X? I am still learning this system 
but it sure outruns Windows.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/15/2016 6:03 PM, Cheree Heppe wrote:

It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined
functionality, such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy
system, namely OS.
If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The
iOS represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.
 Among the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going
to be forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This
mail issue mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve,
to make simpler, to add features.
My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release
notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful
or easily usable.
It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on
that clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the
iOs.  It is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place
to the more modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other
way round.
Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.
There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at
rehab, insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk
losing something that could and did change the world for us.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden mailto:dchitten...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now
looks much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.

When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled
the same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a
thread to activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this
view, single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the
messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific
message. Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen
deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick
moves between threads, threads and individual messages which do not
belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same
as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.

If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread
must be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger
vertical flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is
unpacked and all the messages in the thread are treated like
non-thread messages. Now that I have become used to this new system, I
really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to become used
to this new system.

I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps
for iOS and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love
touch-screen and want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton mailto:philh...@gmail.com>> wrote:


message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can
no longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead
I have to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of
messages in a thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into
the first message in the thread and then have to navigate between
messages using the next and pre message buttons. What a screw up this
is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message gone in ios10?
Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are
there some settings that need tweaking?


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVis

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

Holy crap, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  YOu’re one to talk 
about disrespect inmate.


> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Excuse me, Cheree.  that was profoundly disrespectful, not to mention 
> downright insulting to us devs, me being one of them.  Let me tell you 
> something.  We devs did! try getting on Apple about stuff like this.  I did 
> so in iOS 9, and I even more so did in this iOS 10 update beta cycle.  Trust 
> me.  I was on the 10 beta from June 30th, when it was announced at WWDC until 
> now.  I've ever since had at least one of my devices on 10.
>  
> I've reported bug after bug after bug to them.  I've worked countless hours 
> to the sweat of my brow! trying to explain these things to them, but no 
> sollution was ever made.  So don't be putting the blame on us devs, OK?  
> We've done our damdest! to make this new version of OSX, TVOS, Watch OS, and 
> iOS as  wonderful as possible.  The thing is, once we make the bug reports 
> through the bugreporter bug tracker, we really don't then have much of a say 
> past that point.  If Apple fixes it, great, if not, well, we've done our 
> parts by reporting it.
>  
> Now, if us devs just saw the bug and ignored it, then therefore it was 
> released buggy, then, I'd totally give this message to you, but, hunttauhh.  
> I'm not lettin' you have this.  I'm sorry.  Us devs deserve more credit, and 
> respect!  We really, really really did try!
>  
> Can another person on this list who's a dev and paid the 99 for the iOS 10 
> cycle please speak up and advocate for us all here as well?  This is just 
> wrong!
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Cheree Heppe 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes
>> 
>> You developers and designers, changers and alter era can flick yourselves 
>> into you-know-where regarding this change to mail on iOS.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>>> 
>>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, 
>>> single-finger vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. 
>>> Single-finger horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. 
>>> Double-tap on the delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all 
>>> messages in the thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between 
>>> threads, threads and individual messages which do not belong to threads, 
>>> and individual messages. In other words, the same as single-finger 
>>> horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
>>> 
>>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must 
>>> be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical 
>>> flick to expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all 
>>> the messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I 
>>> have become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few 
>>> hours of frustration to become used to this new system.
>>> 
>>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
>>> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and 
>>> want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton >> > wrote:
>>> 
 message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
 longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have 
 to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
 thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message 
 in the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next 
 and pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking 
 from message to message gone in ios10?
 Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there 
 some settings that need tweaking?
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post i

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Excuse me, Cheree.  that was profoundly disrespectful, not to mention downright 
insulting to us devs, me being one of them.  Let me tell you something.  We 
devs did! try getting on Apple about stuff like this.  I did so in iOS 9, and I 
even more so did in this iOS 10 update beta cycle.  Trust me.  I was on the 10 
beta from June 30th, when it was announced at WWDC until now.  I've ever since 
had at least one of my devices on 10.

I've reported bug after bug after bug to them.  I've worked countless hours to 
the sweat of my brow! trying to explain these things to them, but no sollution 
was ever made.  So don't be putting the blame on us devs, OK?  We've done our 
damdest! to make this new version of OSX, TVOS, Watch OS, and iOS as  wonderful 
as possible.  The thing is, once we make the bug reports through the 
bugreporter bug tracker, we really don't then have much of a say past that 
point.  If Apple fixes it, great, if not, well, we've done our parts by 
reporting it.

Now, if us devs just saw the bug and ignored it, then therefore it was released 
buggy, then, I'd totally give this message to you, but, hunttauhh.  I'm not 
lettin' you have this.  I'm sorry.  Us devs deserve more credit, and respect!  
We really, really really did try!

Can another person on this list who's a dev and paid the 99 for the iOS 10 
cycle please speak up and advocate for us all here as well?  This is just wrong!
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Cheree Heppe 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:08 PM
  Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes


  You developers and designers, changers and alter era can flick yourselves 
into you-know-where regarding this change to mail on iOS.



  Sent from my iPhone

  On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  wrote:


Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.


When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the delete 
button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the thread. 
Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and individual 
messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. In other 
words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.


If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must 
be expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the messages 
in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have become used 
to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to 
become used to this new system.


I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and want 
my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:


  message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to 
use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a thread 
no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in the thread 
and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre message 
buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message 
gone in ios10?
  Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there 
some settings that need tweaking?


  -- 
  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.

  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

  The archives for this list can be searched at:
  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
  --- 
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegr

t-Mobile releases carrier update 25.1

[Scott Granados]

Carrier update 25.1 is available for T-Mobile.  To force the update go to 
settings, general, and about.  You should be prompted to update.  Accept the 
update and wait for it to install, your cell connection will restart.

Good luck

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Scott Granados]

It’s also counter productive to stagnate.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 9:03 PM, Cheree Heppe  wrote:
> 
> It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined functionality, 
> such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, namely OS.
> If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The iOS 
> represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.  Among 
> the public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
> If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to be 
> forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This mail issue 
> mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make simpler, 
> to add features.
> My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release 
> notes guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or 
> easily usable.
> It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that 
> clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs.  It 
> is my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the more 
> modern, more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round.
> Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.  
> There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, 
> insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
> I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing 
> something that could and did change the world for us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  > wrote:
> 
>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>> 
>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
>> vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
>> horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the 
>> delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the 
>> thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and 
>> individual messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. 
>> In other words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message 
>> list screen.
>> 
>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
>> expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
>> expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the 
>> messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have 
>> become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of 
>> frustration to become used to this new system.
>> 
>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
>> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and 
>> want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton > > wrote:
>> 
>>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have 
>>> to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
>>> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
>>> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and 
>>> pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from 
>>> message to message gone in ios10?
>>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
>>> settings that need tweaking?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisio

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

My head hurts!  LOL!
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: David Chittenden 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 6:27 PM
  Subject: Re: IOS10 Mail app changes


  Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.


  When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the same 
as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to activate 
it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger vertical 
flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks 
read through the specific message. Double-tap on the delete button at the 
bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger 
horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and individual messages which 
do not belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same as 
single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.


  If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the messages 
in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have become used 
to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to 
become used to this new system.


  I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and want 
my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.

  David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
  Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
  Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
  Sent from my iPhone

  On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:


message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to 
use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a thread 
no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in the thread 
and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre message 
buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message 
gone in ios10?
Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
settings that need tweaking?


-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


  -- 
  The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.
   
  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
   
  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
   
  The archives for this list can be searched at:
  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
  --- 
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
  Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@ca

Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, but not everyone can afford a new IPhone 7.  What about those like me, who 
can't?  Should we be made to suffer?  LOL!  Smile.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kawal Gucukoglu 
  To: Macvisionaries 
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:50 PM
  Subject: Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug 
Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App


  When you have a new phone like the I phone 7 or 7 Plus, this bug might not be 
there.

On 15 Sep 2016, at 20:59, maurice.mines  wrote:


I was part of the Beta test, and this occurred rarely for me. So I don’t 
see a reason for me to amplify this. Because I think it would be tough for them 
to replicated my try going to the Genius Bar instead. To see if you can get the 
issue fixed 6s.  so that might make a difference in how I’m thinking about 
this. Hope this helps, Maurice.

  On Sep 15, 2016, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden  
wrote:


  The rotor selects between functions for the single-finger vertical flick. 
It is, essentially a control panel for voiceover during normal operation. For 
instance, when reviewing what one is reading, setting rotor to characters, 
words, or lines, determines the amount voiceover reads per vertical flick. 
Twisting the rotor to language then allows changing of voiceover speaking 
language. Turning the rotor to text selection allows highlighting of text. 
Turning the rotor to edit allows selecting action to perform on the highlighted 
text. I am writing this response using braille screen input, which I activate 
by turning the rotor to braille screen input.

  David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
  Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
  Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
  Sent from my iPhone

  On 16/09/2016, at 06:32, Jed Barton  wrote:


Never used reorder.  What exactly does it do?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:


  Hello Everyone,

  Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple 
regarding the
  fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
  Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no 
longer
  VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, 
one can
  delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed 
to the
  left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.

  I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste 
it into
  a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.

  [BEGIN REPORT]
  Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
  Accessible in iOS 10.

  In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user 
cannot
  reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  

  To reproduce this bug:

  1.
  Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.

  2.
  With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.

  3.
  Select the Favorites Tab.

  4.
  Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the 
display.

  5.
  Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are 
not
  VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete 
controls are
  also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
  [END REPORT]

  Thank you,

  Mark

  -- 
  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.

  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

  The archives for this list can be searched at:
  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
  --- 
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
  Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is in

Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

The problem is, new bugs are cropping up that were not in the beta.  This is 
freaking ridiculous!  See my post on the Siri male voice, and apparently the 
guy at Accessibility I just spoke with was able not only to reproduce it, but 
he sent a message out across their internal chat system, and about 10 people 
responded during our call saying they, too, could reproduce that issue.  My 
point is, things are seeming with the official build, unlike the beta, to be 
getting way worse, which is surprising.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
  - Original Message - 
  From: maurice.mines 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 3:59 PM
  Subject: Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug 
Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App


  I was part of the Beta test, and this occurred rarely for me. So I don’t see 
a reason for me to amplify this. Because I think it would be tough for them to 
replicated my try going to the Genius Bar instead. To see if you can get the 
issue fixed 6s.  so that might make a difference in how I’m thinking about 
this. Hope this helps, Maurice.

On Sep 15, 2016, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden  
wrote:


The rotor selects between functions for the single-finger vertical flick. 
It is, essentially a control panel for voiceover during normal operation. For 
instance, when reviewing what one is reading, setting rotor to characters, 
words, or lines, determines the amount voiceover reads per vertical flick. 
Twisting the rotor to language then allows changing of voiceover speaking 
language. Turning the rotor to text selection allows highlighting of text. 
Turning the rotor to edit allows selecting action to perform on the highlighted 
text. I am writing this response using braille screen input, which I activate 
by turning the rotor to braille screen input.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 16/09/2016, at 06:32, Jed Barton  wrote:


  Never used reorder.  What exactly does it do?

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:


Hello Everyone,

Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple 
regarding the
fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no longer
VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, one 
can
delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed to 
the
left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.

I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it 
into
a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.

[BEGIN REPORT]
Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
Accessible in iOS 10.

In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user cannot
reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  

To reproduce this bug:

1.
Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.

2.
With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.

3.
Select the Favorites Tab.

4.
Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the 
display.

5.
Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are 
not
VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete controls 
are
also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
[END REPORT]

Thank you,

Mark

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



  -- 
  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Cheree Heppe]

You developers and designers, changers and alter era can flick yourselves into 
you-know-where regarding this change to mail on iOS.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
> 
> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the same 
> as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
> vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
> horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the 
> delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the thread. 
> Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and individual 
> messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. In other 
> words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
> 
> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
> expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
> expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the 
> messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have 
> become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of 
> frustration to become used to this new system.
> 
> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and want 
> my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to 
>> use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
>> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
>> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre 
>> message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message 
>> to message gone in ios10?
>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
>> settings that need tweaking?
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

Th

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Cheree Heppe]

It seems counterproductive to force an up-to-date, streamlined functionality, 
such as iOS to emulate an older, difficult, clumsy system, namely OS.
If I'm not mistaken, there are more users of the iOS than the OS.  The iOS 
represents a gateway experience that the public has readily adopted.  Among the 
public are large numbers of blind and disabled users.
If this new mail modality represents Apple's future for iOS, I am going to be 
forced into seeking another phone and notebook alternative.  This mail issue 
mushroomed, full-blown, from an update promised to improve, to make simpler, to 
add features.
My experience has unfortunately invited an opposite opinion.  No release notes 
guided usage; it was just changed, just done and just not helpful or easily 
usable.
It feels as though there is a tug-of-war between some who learned on that 
clumsy, multi-step, multi-keyboard usage system and those using the iOs.  It is 
my opinion that the older, less easy OS needs to give place to the more modern, 
more intuitive, more usable iOs and not the other way round.
Each update adds extra complications to iOS in the name of improvements.  
There are a cadre of blind and sighted who, like the old friends at rehab, 
insist on speaking for us, the user/consumer blind, for our own good.
I recommend that all of us speak up in our own best interest or risk losing 
something that could and did change the world for us.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 15:27, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
> 
> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the same 
> as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
> vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
> horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the 
> delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the thread. 
> Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and individual 
> messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. In other 
> words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
> 
> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
> expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
> expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the 
> messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have 
> become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of 
> frustration to become used to this new system.
> 
> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and want 
> my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to 
>> use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
>> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
>> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre 
>> message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message 
>> to message gone in ios10?
>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
>> settings that need tweaking?
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 

Re: Actions available in new iOS 10

[Scott Granados]

I noticed since I started which was the second public beta the actions 
available message.
 



> On Sep 15, 2016, at 8:25 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I came in late to the betas. But I do remember it said actions available 
> everywhere on the home screen. Are used to like this, because actions weren't 
> available on that many places, and it was nice to know. Now that it's 
> everywhere, it's annoying. Especially on the home screen.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  > wrote:
> 
>> You know, I did! notice this, and was like, wow, I don't remember it doing 
>> that in the beta.
>> 
>> This is so weird.  I tell you all, the beta wasn't this buggy!  I'm kind a 
>> not liking what I'm so far seeing here on this 6+ which isn't on the beta, 
>> but is on the official build of 10.
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>> 
>> i...@gillandmarketing.com 
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> - Original Message - From: "Phil Halton" > >
>> To: "Macvisionaries" > >
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:37 AM
>> Subject: Actions available in new iOS 10
>> 
>> 
>>> How can I get iOS to stop saying "actions available". I've looked in 
>>> VoiceOver settings. Changing the verbosity option to speak hints doesn't 
>>> seem to affect this. Whenever I'm on the home screen touching an icon it 
>>> always says actions available. Any help?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my IPhone
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>>> . 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you 

Re: Actions available in new iOS 10

[Mary Otten]

I came in late to the betas. But I do remember it said actions available 
everywhere on the home screen. Are used to like this, because actions weren't 
available on that many places, and it was nice to know. Now that it's 
everywhere, it's annoying. Especially on the home screen.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> You know, I did! notice this, and was like, wow, I don't remember it doing 
> that in the beta.
> 
> This is so weird.  I tell you all, the beta wasn't this buggy!  I'm kind a 
> not liking what I'm so far seeing here on this 6+ which isn't on the beta, 
> but is on the official build of 10.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
> 
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "Phil Halton" 
> To: "Macvisionaries" 
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:37 AM
> Subject: Actions available in new iOS 10
> 
> 
>> How can I get iOS to stop saying "actions available". I've looked in 
>> VoiceOver settings. Changing the verbosity option to speak hints doesn't 
>> seem to affect this. Whenever I'm on the home screen touching an icon it 
>> always says actions available. Any help?
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Actions available in new iOS 10

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You know, I did! notice this, and was like, wow, I don't remember it doing 
that in the beta.


This is so weird.  I tell you all, the beta wasn't this buggy!  I'm kind a 
not liking what I'm so far seeing here on this 6+ which isn't on the beta, 
but is on the official build of 10.

---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

i...@gillandmarketing.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
- Original Message - 
From: "Phil Halton" 

To: "Macvisionaries" 
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:37 AM
Subject: Actions available in new iOS 10


How can I get iOS to stop saying "actions available". I've looked in 
VoiceOver settings. Changing the verbosity option to speak hints doesn't 
seem to affect this. Whenever I'm on the home screen touching an icon it 
always says actions available. Any help?


Sent from my IPhone

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Siri Male, is it just me?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Um, is it just me, or do yall agree that in iOS 10, the Siri male Aaron 
American english voice we've had since iOS9 is way more degraded?  It doesn't 
sound as bad as the compact voice, I'll give ya that, but, it doesn't sound 
very good either.  It kind a reminds me a little of a really low sampled 
version of the high quality voice.  Also, I've noticed that I can't seem to 
switch the voice anymore between the high quality, and the compact.  Has that 
changed, and I just never knew it?

Chris.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[Scott Granados]

Cut, paste and sent.  Great catch Mark.  Glad you are raising these 
accessibility concerns on list.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple regarding the
> fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
> Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no longer
> VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, one can
> delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed to the
> left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.
> 
> I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it into
> a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.
> 
> [BEGIN REPORT]
> Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
> Accessible in iOS 10.
> 
> In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user cannot
> reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  
> 
> To reproduce this bug:
> 
> 1.
> Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.
> 
> 2.
> With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.
> 
> 3.
> Select the Favorites Tab.
> 
> 4.
> Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the display.
> 
> 5.
> Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are not
> VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete controls are
> also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
> [END REPORT]
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: watch os 3 powering off

[Scott Granados]

Hahaha that’s a good strategy Kawal.

The new watch is dual core and even IOS 3 feels faster on my original version 
so it should be pretty fast.

The SOS feature is global.  It sets up based on your location so in the US it 
knows to dial 911, in the UK I believe you use 999.  It selects the emergency 
number based on your geographic location. You can also define up to 3 contacts 
who get texted and sent your location if you press the SOS feature.

This is a great option I feel for women especially and the blind community as 
well.  Women who travel alone and get hassled or worse in any setting but 
especially big cities have another tool to get help and same for us.  I’ve 
gotten lost before and had my assistant remotely track me to determine my 
location. This should be able to help a lot of people and I hope it prevents a 
lot of crime.

Hope that helps.



> On Sep 15, 2016, at 4:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Is the SOS feature only for the US?  I’m buying my watch series 2 tomorrow 
> and hope the watch is faster than the last Generation.  I’m going to the 
> Apple store and am going to hold my caine out to see if I can get in front of 
> the queue.
>> On 14 Sep 2016, at 16:40, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> Oh boy, what could possibly go wrong there.:)
>> 
>> That sounds a little dicy to me.  “911, how may I help you?”  “I’m sorry I 
>> was trying to power down my watch, no really I’m fine, nobody is here, I’m 
>> just trying to reset my watch”  “Ok ok, I’ll open the door and let the 
>> officer in to check” ;)
>> 
>> As someone who has to test 911 calls for SIP phones from time to time that’s 
>> a real eye opener when you dial 911 and think you hang up before the call 
>> completes and 5 minutes later police are pulling up in your parking lot 
>> looking for the guy calling 911. haha
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Jonathan Mosen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Sarai, you press it long enough to invoke the power off screen, but not 
>>> so long that it invokes the SOS function.
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org 
 On 15/09/2016, at 3:07 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi:
 I know the long press of friends button use to power off the watch, and 
 now it starts SOS. How do you turn off the watch now?
 Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 .
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
 .
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
 .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> 

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

You can also do actions on individual messages in thread view by flicking left 
till you hear your message n of y and about clicking on that.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn 

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Helga Schreiber  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all! How are you all?  I was playing  with the mail app with IOS 10,adn I 
> find   away to read a thread of messages. You find the thread you want tto 
> read, then flick or swipe down adn you wil find archive, mark all, delete, 
> expand thread, ten just double tap on expand thread,and you will be able to 
> read the email messages like the Mac shows it. And when you want to collapse 
> thread, you just need to go to the beginning, and flick down on thread 
> messages,adn yo wil find collapse thread, and that wil return to the way it 
> was before. It took me a while to figure it out. Hope this ehlps. I look 
> forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks and God bless!
> 
>   Helga Schreiber 
> Group Moderator  
>  
>   for the IPad help for the blind 
>  
> ipadhelpfortheblind+subscr...@groups.io  
> 
> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
> Students.
> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
> Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
> Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
> Skype: helga.schreiber26 
> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 
> 
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
> Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 10
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:27 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
>> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
>> 
>> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the 
>> same as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
>> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
>> vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
>> horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the 
>> delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the 
>> thread. Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and 
>> individual messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. 
>> In other words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message 
>> list screen.
>> 
>> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
>> expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
>> expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the 
>> messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have 
>> become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of 
>> frustration to become used to this new system.
>> 
>> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
>> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and 
>> want my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:
>>> 
>>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have 
>>> to use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
>>> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
>>> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and 
>>> pre message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from 
>>> message to message gone in ios10?
>>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
>>> settings that need tweaking?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https:/

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[Helga Schreiber]

Hi all! How are you all?  I was playing  with the mail app with IOS 10,adn I 
find   away to read a thread of messages. You find the thread you want tto 
read, then flick or swipe down adn you wil find archive, mark all, delete, 
expand thread, ten just double tap on expand thread,and you will be able to 
read the email messages like the Mac shows it. And when you want to collapse 
thread, you just need to go to the beginning, and flick down on thread 
messages,adn yo wil find collapse thread, and that wil return to the way it was 
before. It took me a while to figure it out. Hope this ehlps. I look forward in 
hearing from you soon. Thanks and God bless!

  Helga Schreiber 
Group Moderator  
 
  for the IPad help for the blind 
 
ipadhelpfortheblind+subscr...@groups.io  

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind 
Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreibe...@gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever 
believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 6S running IOS 10

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:27 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks 
> much more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.
> 
> When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the same 
> as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to 
> activate it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger 
> vertical flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger 
> horrizontal flicks read through the specific message. Double-tap on the 
> delete button at the bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the thread. 
> Three-finger horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and individual 
> messages which do not belong to threads, and individual messages. In other 
> words, the same as single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.
> 
> If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
> expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
> expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the 
> messages in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have 
> become used to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of 
> frustration to become used to this new system.
> 
> I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS 
> and Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and want 
> my touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:
>> 
>> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
>> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to 
>> use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
>> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
>> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre 
>> message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message 
>> to message gone in ios10?
>> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
>> settings that need tweaking?
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> 

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[David Chittenden]

Correct, the way messages are handled has changed. Visually, it now looks much 
more like mail on the mac. It also works more like macmail.

When in the main message list, individual messages are still handled the same 
as in iOS 9. Threads are different. If one double-taps on a thread to activate 
it, one goes into a browse thread view. In this view, single-finger vertical 
flick moves up and down through the messages. Single-finger horrizontal flicks 
read through the specific message. Double-tap on the delete button at the 
bottom of the screen deletes all messages in the thread. Three-finger 
horrizontal flick moves between threads, threads and individual messages which 
do not belong to threads, and individual messages. In other words, the same as 
single-finger horrizontal flick in the message list screen.

If one wishes to delete only some messages from a thread, the thread must be 
expanded. Whilst in the main message screen, single-finger vertical flick to 
expand thread and double-tap. Now, the thread is unpacked and all the messages 
in the thread are treated like non-thread messages. Now that I have become used 
to this new system, I really like it. It took me a few hours of frustration to 
become used to this new system.

I am hoping that, as Apple continues merging the behaviours of apps for iOS and 
Mac, that we will see a full Mac-based iPad. I love touch-screen and want my 
touch-screen Mac, or the equivalent.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 16/09/2016, at 10:09, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no 
> longer 3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to 
> use the “pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a 
> thread no longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in 
> the thread and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre 
> message buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message 
> to message gone in ios10?
> Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
> settings that need tweaking?
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[jaan ali]

Hi, the delete all button is also gone, that's why am using the outlook mail 
instead of the regular mail app


Get Outlook for iOS




On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:09 PM -0400, "Phil Halton" 
mailto:philh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no longer 
3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to use the 
“pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a thread no 
longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in the thread 
and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre message 
buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message 
gone in ios10?
Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
settings that need tweaking?


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: IOS10 Mail app changes

[E.T.]

Phil,
   If you have not read this article on Applevis yet, please do. Link 
follows.




From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/15/2016 3:09 PM, Phil Halton wrote:

message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no longer 
3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to use the 
“pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a thread no 
longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in the thread 
and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre message 
buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message 
gone in ios10?
Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
settings that need tweaking?




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

IOS10 Mail app changes

[Phil Halton]

message threading seems to have changed substantially in IOS10. I can no longer 
3 finger flick from message to message in a thread, instead I have to use the 
“pre and next” message buttons. Also, the list of messages in a thread no 
longer appears, but instead I am thrown into the first message in the thread 
and then have to navigate between messages using the next and pre message 
buttons. What a screw up this is! is 3 finger flicking from message to message 
gone in ios10?
Also how about the thread message list? is that gone too? or are there some 
settings that need tweaking?
 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: watch os 3 powering off

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Is the SOS feature only for the US?  I’m buying my watch series 2 tomorrow and 
hope the watch is faster than the last Generation.  I’m going to the Apple 
store and am going to hold my caine out to see if I can get in front of the 
queue.
> On 14 Sep 2016, at 16:40, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Oh boy, what could possibly go wrong there.:)
> 
> That sounds a little dicy to me.  “911, how may I help you?”  “I’m sorry I 
> was trying to power down my watch, no really I’m fine, nobody is here, I’m 
> just trying to reset my watch”  “Ok ok, I’ll open the door and let the 
> officer in to check” ;)
> 
> As someone who has to test 911 calls for SIP phones from time to time that’s 
> a real eye opener when you dial 911 and think you hang up before the call 
> completes and 5 minutes later police are pulling up in your parking lot 
> looking for the guy calling 911. haha
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Jonathan Mosen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Sarai, you press it long enough to invoke the power off screen, but not 
>> so long that it invokes the SOS function.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org 
>>> On 15/09/2016, at 3:07 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi:
>>> I know the long press of friends button use to power off the watch, and now 
>>> it starts SOS. How do you turn off the watch now?
>>> Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>>> .
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you a

Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

When you have a new phone like the I phone 7 or 7 Plus, this bug might not be 
there.
> On 15 Sep 2016, at 20:59, maurice.mines  wrote:
> 
> I was part of the Beta test, and this occurred rarely for me. So I don’t see 
> a reason for me to amplify this. Because I think it would be tough for them 
> to replicated my try going to the Genius Bar instead. To see if you can get 
> the issue fixed 6s.  so that might make a difference in how I’m thinking 
> about this. Hope this helps, Maurice.
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden > > wrote:
>> 
>> The rotor selects between functions for the single-finger vertical flick. It 
>> is, essentially a control panel for voiceover during normal operation. For 
>> instance, when reviewing what one is reading, setting rotor to characters, 
>> words, or lines, determines the amount voiceover reads per vertical flick. 
>> Twisting the rotor to language then allows changing of voiceover speaking 
>> language. Turning the rotor to text selection allows highlighting of text. 
>> Turning the rotor to edit allows selecting action to perform on the 
>> highlighted text. I am writing this response using braille screen input, 
>> which I activate by turning the rotor to braille screen input.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 16/09/2016, at 06:32, Jed Barton > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Never used reorder.  What exactly does it do?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple regarding 
 the
 fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
 Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no longer
 VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, one can
 delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed to the
 left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.
 
 I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it into
 a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.
 
 [BEGIN REPORT]
 Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
 Accessible in iOS 10.
 
 In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user cannot
 reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  
 
 To reproduce this bug:
 
 1.
 Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.
 
 2.
 With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.
 
 3.
 Select the Favorites Tab.
 
 4.
 Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the display.
 
 5.
 Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are not
 VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete controls are
 also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
 [END REPORT]
 
 Thank you,
 
 Mark
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 .
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
 .
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
 .
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is M

Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[maurice.mines]

I was part of the Beta test, and this occurred rarely for me. So I don’t see a 
reason for me to amplify this. Because I think it would be tough for them to 
replicated my try going to the Genius Bar instead. To see if you can get the 
issue fixed 6s.  so that might make a difference in how I’m thinking about 
this. Hope this helps, Maurice.
> On Sep 15, 2016, at 12:54 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> The rotor selects between functions for the single-finger vertical flick. It 
> is, essentially a control panel for voiceover during normal operation. For 
> instance, when reviewing what one is reading, setting rotor to characters, 
> words, or lines, determines the amount voiceover reads per vertical flick. 
> Twisting the rotor to language then allows changing of voiceover speaking 
> language. Turning the rotor to text selection allows highlighting of text. 
> Turning the rotor to edit allows selecting action to perform on the 
> highlighted text. I am writing this response using braille screen input, 
> which I activate by turning the rotor to braille screen input.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com 
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 16/09/2016, at 06:32, Jed Barton  > wrote:
> 
>> Never used reorder.  What exactly does it do?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple regarding the
>>> fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
>>> Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no longer
>>> VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, one can
>>> delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed to the
>>> left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.
>>> 
>>> I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it into
>>> a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.
>>> 
>>> [BEGIN REPORT]
>>> Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
>>> Accessible in iOS 10.
>>> 
>>> In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user cannot
>>> reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  
>>> 
>>> To reproduce this bug:
>>> 
>>> 1.
>>> Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.
>>> 
>>> 2.
>>> With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.
>>> 
>>> 3.
>>> Select the Favorites Tab.
>>> 
>>> 4.
>>> Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the display.
>>> 
>>> 5.
>>> Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are not
>>> VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete controls are
>>> also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
>>> [END REPORT]
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>>> .
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 

Re: watch os 3

[christopher hallsworth]

I had this today, and switching the charger off and back on again did the trick.
> On 14 Sep 2016, at 22:03, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Is anyone experiencing problems with the charger?
> It tells me it can’t charge with this accessori.
> /A
>> 14 sep. 2016 kl. 15:49 skrev Jonathan Mosen :
>> 
>> Hi Juan, did you try powering your watch off and then on again? This did the 
>> job for someone I was assisting yesterday.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org
>> 
>>> On 15/09/2016, at 12:31 AM, Juan Hernandez  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>>  
>>> I can’t seem to get my apple watch to upgrade.  Everytime I go to software 
>>> update, it says that watch os 2.2.2 is the latest version.  Anyone have any 
>>> ideas about how to get it to up to watch os 3?
>>>  
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>  
>>> Best,
>>>  
>>> Juan
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, vis

Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[David Chittenden]

The rotor selects between functions for the single-finger vertical flick. It 
is, essentially a control panel for voiceover during normal operation. For 
instance, when reviewing what one is reading, setting rotor to characters, 
words, or lines, determines the amount voiceover reads per vertical flick. 
Twisting the rotor to language then allows changing of voiceover speaking 
language. Turning the rotor to text selection allows highlighting of text. 
Turning the rotor to edit allows selecting action to perform on the highlighted 
text. I am writing this response using braille screen input, which I activate 
by turning the rotor to braille screen input.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 16/09/2016, at 06:32, Jed Barton  wrote:
> 
> Never used reorder.  What exactly does it do?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple regarding the
>> fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
>> Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no longer
>> VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, one can
>> delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed to the
>> left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.
>> 
>> I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it into
>> a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.
>> 
>> [BEGIN REPORT]
>> Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
>> Accessible in iOS 10.
>> 
>> In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user cannot
>> reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  
>> 
>> To reproduce this bug:
>> 
>> 1.
>> Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.
>> 
>> 2.
>> With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.
>> 
>> 3.
>> Select the Favorites Tab.
>> 
>> 4.
>> Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the display.
>> 
>> 5.
>> Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are not
>> VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete controls are
>> also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
>> [END REPORT]
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 

Re: Alex Voice?

[christopher hallsworth]

Yeah he sure is along with Fred and that’s pretty cool. But Fred comes with the 
operating system just like he comes with iOS.
> On 15 Sep 2016, at 06:24, BBS  wrote:
> 
> Yeah a friend of mine just downloaded it on her Apple TV.
>  
>  
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook Via Bootcamp and Windows 10
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Skype Username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime Username: bbssh...@icloud.com
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 8:47 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Alex Voice?
>  
> Hey's, anyone noticed that Alex is now available, along with Fred on the 
> Apple TV4 with TVOS 10?  I thought that was really cool!  I meant to mention 
> that earlier, and totally forgot.
>  
> Chris.
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[Jed Barton]

Never used reorder.  What exactly does it do?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 2:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple regarding the
> fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
> Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no longer
> VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, one can
> delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed to the
> left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.
> 
> I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it into
> a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.
> 
> [BEGIN REPORT]
> Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
> Accessible in iOS 10.
> 
> In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user cannot
> reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  
> 
> To reproduce this bug:
> 
> 1.
> Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.
> 
> 2.
> With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.
> 
> 3.
> Select the Favorites Tab.
> 
> 4.
> Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the display.
> 
> 5.
> Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are not
> VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete controls are
> also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
> [END REPORT]
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

iOS 10 Bug Report: Please Join Me in Sending This VoiceOver Bug Report to Apple Regarding the Phone App

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

Please join me in sending a VoiceOver feedback report to Apple regarding the
fact that VoiceOver users can no longer reorder Contacts listed in the
Favorites area of the Phone app.  Also, the Delete buttons are no longer
VoiceOver accessible.  Just so you know, using the VoiceOver Rotor, one can
delete a Contact from this list, however the Delete button displayed to the
left of each individual Contact item is inaccessible.

I have already written the report so all you need to do is to paste it into
a new email, either in its entirety or modified as you see fit.

[BEGIN REPORT]
Subject:  Reordering Favorite Contacts Control No Longer VoiceOver
Accessible in iOS 10.

In iOS 10, unlike in iOS 9.x, when VoiceOver is enabled, the user cannot
reorder Contacts in the Favorites area of the Phone app.  

To reproduce this bug:

1.
Make certain that you have multiple Contacts selected as a Favorite.

2.
With VoiceOver enabled, open the Phone app.

3.
Select the Favorites Tab.

4.
Select the Edit button located near the upper right corner of the display.

5.
Even though the reorder controls are visible on the display, they are not
VoiceOver accessible.  It should also be noted that the Delete controls are
also visible but are also inaccessible via VoiceOver.
[END REPORT]

Thank you,

Mark

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: tips for talking on apple watch

[christopher hallsworth]

Please share but unlike you haven’t used the phone feature yet as am scared we 
won’t be able to hear each other.
> On 15 Sep 2016, at 17:50, Sarai Bucciarelli  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> any tips for talking on the apple watch? When I try and use the phone 
> feature, no one can hear me!
> Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

tips for talking on apple watch

[Sarai Bucciarelli]

Hi:
any tips for talking on the apple watch? When I try and use the phone feature, 
no one can hear me!
Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: watch os 3 powering off

[Sarai Bucciarelli]

That was my first thought.
> On Sep 14, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> wo, damn!  You have a very valid point there that I've not even thought 
> about.  Yeah, I agree, hopefully Apple thought of that little snafu.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
> 
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "Sarai Bucciarelli" 
> 
> To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:07 AM
> Subject: watch os 3 powering off
> 
> 
>> Hi:
>> I know the long press of friends button use to power off the watch, and now 
>> it starts SOS. How do you turn off the watch now?
>> Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Faces and features - Apple Watch User Guide

[Traci Duncan]

Some of you may like to have the descriptions of all the available watch faces. 
 It’s kind of nice to simply read it out on the computer.

HTH,
Traci
 

> http://help.apple.com/watch/#/apd6ce85daf4 
> 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Do I want to update or not?

[Scott Granados]

I thought you all escaped from Australia just like we did from Europe.:)


> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:38 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> 
> There is a 2500 Km stretch of water between us an austrailia for a reason
> It was origionally populated with criminals so we try to keep them on their 
> side of the lake.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 1:20 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Do I want to update or not?
> 
> Australia, can’t you swim there isn’t it next door?
> 
> Get the phone and walk.  :)
> 
> haha
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 3:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Byte me!
>> 
>> I'm jelous of those getting one.
>> 
>> I've told my self I don't need it as I'm saving for a trip to austrailia in 
>> December but then again,!
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 2:05 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Do I want to update or not?
>> 
>> Speaking of 7 phones, my credit card just got charged by T-Mobile a few 
>> minutes ago, means it’s shipping.  I’m so excited!
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Can't see why you wouldn't update,
>>> 
>>> I've had no problems thus far but then I'm not at this point getting a 7.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 5:32 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Do I want to update or not?
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I'm getting my iPhone 7 this Friday.  I have a recollection that when I got 
>>> my last phone, I had an issue because I'd already updated my old phone to 
>>> the new IOS version.  So I'm thinking that this time I want to skip 
>>> upgrading my current phone.  Am I thinking about this correctly?
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and

Re: IOS 10 and WatchOS 3 public release

[Scott Granados]

Might be your wireless maximum unless you’re hard wired.  

Even apple hardware has a hard time filling up a gig pipe.  

> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:44 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I don't get gigabit though, think the highest speed I've had is 450 megabits  
> still a lot faster than some people have.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 2:25 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: IOS 10 and WatchOS 3 public release
> 
> OK, now I'm jealous!
> 
> I'd kill to be able to run a gigabyte fiber line here!
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 2:47 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah not sure why, it's only a 500 or 600 meg update for the watch,
>> 
>> Guessing a combination of what needed to be updated and the download 
>> time, although I'm running a gigiabit fibre line in to my place and 
>> the dl shouldn't taken long if not a 1minute,
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 2:12 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: IOS 10 and WatchOS 3 public release
>> 
>> Same here, 30 to 45 to install.  Took a long time.  Downloading was quick 
>> but that upload and prepare option took a very long time.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 8:11 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> WatchOStook about 30 minutes to date, Oh well back to setting up my 
>>> preferences
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 5:23 AM
>>> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
>>> 
>>> Subject: IOS 10 and WatchOS 3 public release
>>> 
>>> IOS 10.0.1 and WatchOS 3 are released to the general public.  Watch update 
>>> is underway here and so far no issues.  Update em if you got em.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com

Re: watch os 3 powering off

[Scott Granados]

Simon hahaha man you’ve given me a great idea.  I’m going to yell that next 
time at work where there are like 30 iPhone users in range hahahaha.

> On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> That’s better than my friend yelling hey siri call the police
>  
> From the other side of a café table and then I had the operator on the phonen 
> asking if I wished to report an emergency.
>  
> And that was on my apple watch.
>  
> I turned hey siri off on my watch after then.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 3:41 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: watch os 3 powering off
>  
> Oh boy, what could possibly go wrong there.:)
>  
> That sounds a little dicy to me.  “911, how may I help you?”  “I’m sorry I 
> was trying to power down my watch, no really I’m fine, nobody is here, I’m 
> just trying to reset my watch”  “Ok ok, I’ll open the door and let the 
> officer in to check” ;)
>  
> As someone who has to test 911 calls for SIP phones from time to time that’s 
> a real eye opener when you dial 911 and think you hang up before the call 
> completes and 5 minutes later police are pulling up in your parking lot 
> looking for the guy calling 911. haha
>  
>  
> On Sep 14, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Jonathan Mosen  > wrote:
>  
> Hi Sarai, you press it long enough to invoke the power off screen, but not so 
> long that it invokes the SOS function.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org 
>  
> On 15/09/2016, at 3:07 AM, Sarai Bucciarelli  > wrote:
>  
> Hi:
> I know the long press of friends button use to power off the watch, and now 
> it starts SOS. How do you turn off the watch now?
> Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .
>  
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara atcaraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, plea

Re: birthdays (wasRe: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV)

[Scott Granados]

Forgive me as I’m a product of the US public school system so a little slow.  
August 6th, August 6th, I assume you mean the first use of an Atomic bomb and 
not Jamaican independence or the fall of the Pisa navy to Genoa?

As horrible as 8/6/45 was, let’s not forget all the good that came out of it as 
well.  With out that event there would be no me. (hahaha)

;)
 
> On Sep 14, 2016, at 10:02 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> OK, that's just creepy!  Weird thing is, I also have a friend whose birthday 
> is August 6.  I never put the two together until just now reading your 
> message, and I'm pretty sure she hasn't.  I'm feeling really glad at the 
> moment that my birthday is Halloween, and not some unfortunate day in 
> history. :)
> 
> Glad you got to do something nice to celebrate your birthday.  Taking a 
> couple weeks off sounds fabulous!
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 7:42 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Donna,
>> 
>> Yes always do something good at least I take  a week or two off work to 
>> relax and hopefully go away this year just sat in the sun drinking coffee 
>> and relaxing.
>> 
>> 
>> Yeah I have a friend that was born on aug 6th,
>> 
>> Took them a while to understand that one, 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 2:01 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
>> 
>> Hey Simon,
>> 
>> Just wanted to wish you a belated happy birthday!  I hope you had a good 
>> one, and did something a bit more cheerful than watching programs about 9/11.
>> 
>> Sorry that you have to share your birthday with such an event.  One of my 
>> nephews was born on December 7, the anniversary of the bombing of Pearl 
>> Harbor.  Of course the entire family glommed on to the phrase from 
>> Roosevelt's speech "A day that will live in infamy".  So every year on his 
>> birthday the poor kid gets guff from all of us about the day he was born 
>> being a day that will live in infamy.  Happily, he takes it pretty well. :) 
>> Take care, Donna.
>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 2:43 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dude,
>>> 
>>> Not everyone shares a birthday with the death or murder through terrisum  
>>> of 3000 people!
>>> 
>>> Although the attack in NZ time was very early the morning of the 12th, it 
>>> happened on the 11th which happens to be my date of birth plus a few years 
>>> or so.
>>> 
>>> So yeah I take notice of this day in particular.
>>> And a friend of mine arrived in new York the day before and she let me know 
>>> what the ground zero landscape now looks like.
>>> 
>>> And besides,
>>> 
>>> This type of thing effects the world not just America, -Original 
>>> Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 2:02 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
>>> 
>>> Simon, interesting you were watching that, I didn’t realize people were 
>>> interested in such things outside the US other than maybe for historical 
>>> reasons.  Check out the 102 (one hundred and two) minutes that changed 
>>> America.  It’s very hard to watch but well done.  Also, there’s a film done 
>>> by 2 french documentary film makers.  I don’t know the name but the idea is 
>>> they were in NYC filming a documentary about the fire department and they 
>>> were colocated with the department next to the trade center.  The film 
>>> starts out with months of no action for this rookie fireman and his first 
>>> real call turns out to be 9/11.  It takes you in to the actual buildings 
>>> during the rescue as well as they both were running out as the towers fell. 
>>>  Warning they actually show the jumpers and such so don’t expect a fun 
>>> movie but it’s so well done and so startling and a worth while watch.  I 
>>> was in NYC a few weeks ago and it is still, 15 years later impossible for 
>>> me to believe the trade center is gone.  I’ve been lucky enough to eat at 
>>> Windows on the World that used to be on the top level and did some business 
>>> in the trade center so spent a fair bit of time in the twin towers.  I also 
>>> came so close to taking a job with NASDAQ in building 7, building 7 was the 
>>> home of the switching center where all the communications was routed 
>>> through.  My mother was supposed to be in a meeting on the 86th floor on 
>>> 9/11, thankfully traffic kept her from making it early.  It was my first 
>>> day working for Knight-Ridder which was the worlds second largest news 
>>> publisher (news papers, remember them).  Talk about a stressful first day 
>>> of a new job.  My friend who was my Sun Microsystems rep didn’t make it 
>>> out.:(  I went through many Osama benladin shooting targets after.
>>> 
>>> Anyway off topic but the

Re: Actions available in new iOS 10

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
This can’t be changed i think.
It hasn’t been able before either.
/A
> On 15 Sep 2016, at 15:37, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> How can I get iOS to stop saying "actions available". I've looked in 
> VoiceOver settings. Changing the verbosity option to speak hints doesn't seem 
> to affect this. Whenever I'm on the home screen touching an icon it always 
> says actions available. Any help?
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Only Apple could do this.

[Scott Granados]

I personally think you’re all pretty great people, north south, east or west.



> On Sep 15, 2016, at 7:56 AM, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
> 
> Hi. I’m going to wait for another year until the price drops to £500. I 
> wouldn’t get a flat in London as I’m a northerner and we don’t live amongst 
> the southern softies lol. People always come up to the north and make nice 
> comments about our friendly hospitality. 
>> On 14 Sep 2016, at 14:18, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> Whoa, I just checked the pound, I think I should buy a flat in London now.  
>> It’s 76P in the Dollar.  No wonder your home builders and real estate sales 
>> are off the charts.  I thought it was a closer range than that.  Can you 
>> exchange in to another currency and buy from that country instead that’s 
>> more favorable?  I guess either way the value is the value and there’s not 
>> much you can do about monetary policy.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Saqib Hussain >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> My god. It’s £599 for the basic iPhone 7 and I can no longer afford to 
>>> upgrade every year. This year will be the first year where I I will be 
>>> skipping the upgrade. Well if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it. No doubt 
>>> the prices will drop on Amazon but even then the 7 Plus would still cost 
>>> around £800 I have the 6S+ 64GB model and I don’t want to downsize to a 
>>> smaller screen or storage capacity. I will just have to buy the 7+ 128GB 
>>> next year. Prices have gone up by £100 because of the value of the pound 
>>> dropping significantly. I’m not paying an extra £100 for that reason alone. 
 On 9 Sep 2016, at 22:39, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
 
 Starting price of 7 here is the 32 gig
 1199.00 and that’s the 7, the 7+ is 1399 I believe.
  
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
 Sent: Saturday, 10 September 2016 1:05 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: Only Apple could do this.
  
 Ok, quick back of the napkin calculation here.  I show 649 US as about 840 
 NZ currency.  Can you buy them that inexpensively there?  If not, you 
 PayPal me the money, I’ll order and ship you the phone and bam, no import 
 tax.;)
 speaking in theoretical of course.;)
  
  
 On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:12 AM, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
  
 I honestly couldn’t tell you.
  
 Possibly a combination of a & b, but there is also the apple label and  
 the fact that our devices are not locked to a network and there fore being 
 open we’re probably paying more.
  
 You can get financing to buy a device but again that is through a finance 
 company who can charge high interest rates.
  
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
 Sent: Friday, 9 September 2016 2:37 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: Only Apple could do this.
  
 Simon, is it the exchange rate or the import taxation that makes these 
 devices so expensive for you down there?  I’d be down to help get um 
 “creative” on the sourcing and shipping if it would help you save a lot of 
 money.
  
 On Sep 8, 2016, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
  
 It’s not it’s again going to need the phone for gathering functionality.
  
 What I’d like to know is will they replace my apple watch series 1 with 
 the new updated series 1 which they are putting the dual core processor 
 into
  This is the same processor that they are putting in the new series 2 watch
  
 But the new series 2 watch really does sound great,
  
 If only I could currently afford it.
  
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  ] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
 Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2016 9:00 AM
 To: Macvisionaries >>> >
 Subject: Only Apple could do this.
  
 Hi.
  
 I had a great laugh listening to the event when Apple said that water 
 would come back out of the watch speaker once it was put in water.
  
 I’m definitely getting the new watch.  Does anyone know how independent it 
 is from the I phone?
  
 Thanks.
 I'm fundraising for RNIB.
 
 Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my

Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV

[Scott Granados]

Hahaha nah, one has the house next to mine, and the other two are in different 
parts of the country, one 70 miles away and the other 1500 miles away.  They 
are good kids, I was lucky they all turned out well, especially as much as I 
spoiled them.
 
> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:58 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hang on scott,
> Just because you fathered them doesn't mean you raised them!
> 
> Those porr little children, 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 3:27 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
> 
> Yes, we’ve probably just severely panicked some by them knowing I was allowed 
> to raise children.:)
> 
> I got lucky all turned out well to ease the concern of the masses hahaha.  
> One’s in financial sales, one just got her first career job working for a 
> casino and my son works for me.  Their mother and I split up years ago but we 
> always remained on decent terms and I was able to stay in their life.  
> Anyway, way off topic although I’ll say their mother, all 3 of them and I are 
> all rabid apple fanboys.:)  (although my youngest was able to install and use 
> Linux by age 5)  Hazards of having two gear heads for parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, that's a glimpse of a whole other side of you.  Funny the things you 
>> don't know about people, even after having been on the same lists for many 
>> years.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:59 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yep, not at home any more, they do that, grow older and move out and all 
>>> that.  BTW, 2 girls and 1 son.  Oddly enough, my son and his sister have 
>>> the exact same birthday 9 years apart, the other was Pearl Harbor day.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Ha!  Didn't know you had a daughter, Scott.  
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> My daughter was born on dec 7. Nice!
> 
> Makes it easy for me to remember her birthday.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Simon,
>> 
>> Just wanted to wish you a belated happy birthday!  I hope you had a good 
>> one, and did something a bit more cheerful than watching programs about 
>> 9/11.
>> 
>> Sorry that you have to share your birthday with such an event.  
>> One of my nephews was born on December 7, the anniversary of the 
>> bombing of Pearl Harbor.  Of course the entire family glommed on to the 
>> phrase from Roosevelt's speech "A day that will live in infamy".  So 
>> every year on his birthday the poor kid gets guff from all of us about 
>> the day he was born being a day that will live in infamy.  Happily, he 
>> takes it pretty well. :) Take care, Donna.
>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 2:43 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dude,
>>> 
>>> Not everyone shares a birthday with the death or murder through 
>>> terrisum  of 3000 people!
>>> 
>>> Although the attack in NZ time was very early the morning of the 12th, 
>>> it happened on the 11th which happens to be my date of birth plus a few 
>>> years or so.
>>> 
>>> So yeah I take notice of this day in particular.
>>> And a friend of mine arrived in new York the day before and she let me 
>>> know what the ground zero landscape now looks like.
>>> 
>>> And besides,
>>> 
>>> This type of thing effects the world not just America, 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott 
>>> Granados
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2016 2:02 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
>>> 
>>> Simon, interesting you were watching that, I didn’t realize people were 
>>> interested in such things outside the US other than maybe for 
>>> historical reasons.  Check out the 102 (one hundred and two) minutes 
>>> that changed America.  It’s very hard to watch but well done.  Also, 
>>> there’s a film done by 2 french documentary film makers.  I don’t know 
>>> the name but the idea is they were in NYC filming a documentary about 
>>> the fire department and they were colocated with the department next to 
>>> the trade center.  The film starts out with months of no action for 
>>> this rookie fireman and his first real call turns out to be 9/11.  It 
>>> takes you in to the actual buildings during the rescue as well as they 
>>> both were running out as the towers fell.  Warning they actually show 
>>> the jumpers and such so don’t expect a fun movie but it’s so well done 
>>> and so startling and a wor

Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV

[Scott Granados]

I posted one for donna the ZAGGkeys Flex is what I have and they work great, 
$11 I think. (US) on Amazon

> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:40 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> 
> Such as?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 1:55 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
> 
> There are some really small bluetooth keyboards that would be great for this 
> application.  I bought one off amazon for $11 and it works very well.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> It was just much faster to type the old way.  I've never thought about 
>> attaching a bluetooth keyboard to the Apple TV, but am thinking about 
>> it now. :) Cheers, Donna
>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:17 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually, that, I learned to get used to.  It's not that bad once you get 
>>> used to it.
>>> 
>>> I just can't risk it doing what I described earlier.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> ---
>>> Christopher Gilland
>>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>> Training Instructor.
>>> 
>>> i...@gillandmarketing.com
>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>>> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:10 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hey Mark,
>>> 
>>> We had a 3rd gen for many years.  I honestly don't use the keyboard that 
>>> much, so perhaps last night was the first time I noticed.  It's really very 
>>> annoying, at least in my opinion.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Sep 13, 2016, at 10:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  wrote:
 
 Donna, they've always been that way on the 4th gen.
 
 Are you new to TVOS?  It's not like it was on the 2nd and 3rd gens where 
 they were in a grid.
 ---
 Christopher Gilland
 JAWS Certified, 2016.
 Training Instructor.
 
 i...@gillandmarketing.com
 Phone: (704) 256-8010.
 - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
 
 To: 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 11:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
 
 
 When I tried using the keyboard last night, it was like all the letters 
 were arranged in one long row.  Made navigating quickly a hassle.
 Cheers
 Donna
> On Sep 13, 2016, at 8:44 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I’m not sure the issue, my netflix says it was recently updated so I 
> assume I have the latest version.  When I click on my name I get the 
> option to pick up where I left off on movies and the search with the 
> keyboard seems ok, not great but rather unchanged where you arrow to the 
> left or right.  Is this what you’re seeing or is there an issue I’m not 
> picking up on.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 8:59 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, give it a try.  When we first got our 4th Gen, you used to be able 
>> to hear descriptions of movies/TV episodes.  Now you can't.  It also 
>> used to be that I could click on my profile and have an option to 
>> continue what I was watching.  that's gone now.  If I click on my 
>> profile, I'm taken to "Popular on Netflix."  And I agree with Mark, 
>> navigating the keyboard sucks now.  I had hoped that with recent legal 
>> action, Netflix would improve, but if anything, it's gotten worse.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Brian Fischler  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually Netflix is one of the few apps that seems to work pretty good 
>>> with VO although I have not used  it in a week so hopefully I will not 
>>> be adding them to the list. Very disappointing with the direction of 
>>> the 4th get AppleTV.
 On Sep 13, 2016, at 5:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi Brian,
 
 I was just thinking last night, that Netflix has been behaving 
 weirdly. don't have experience with other channels.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Brian Fischler  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Curious if anyone else has noticed this as the accessibility of the 
> 4th gen AppleTV seems to be going backwards. Now that the developers 
> have control instead of Apple many channels are not accessible. I 
> tried to watch something on ABC but since the latest update you can 
> no longer select any of the genres listed there as nothing happens. 
> ESPN is another as everything works perfect on the Apple 3rd Get but 
> on the 4th Get you can watch their channels but none of their 
> channels are labeled. Anyone else notice any of this?
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>

Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV

[Scott Granados]

I liked the older style remote as well but the new one is doable and grows on 
you.  One thing that annoys me is I could be in say my set top box input for my 
cable provider and if I reach to grab another remote and my finger brushes the 
surface of the Apple TV remote it switches over automatically.  I know that’s 
selectable under settings but I haven’t decided whether it’s more trouble than 
it’s worth.  It’s nice to switch automatically but it’s not good to switch when 
your in the middle of something else.  Probably will disable this.  Cool that 
HDMI control messages are generated now though.

> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> From playing around you can use the older remote with the tv4 
> Infact like you I couldn't get to grips with the new remote it took me ages,
> 
> The old one was so much easier.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2016 1:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
> 
> That is a really good question. I have to admit, I haven't used the remote 
> with the fourth-generation TV that much. I really didn't get the hang of it. 
> That's why I was so glad with the Bluetooth keyboard pairing.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> T
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Actions available in new iOS 10

[Phil Halton]

How can I get iOS to stop saying "actions available". I've looked in VoiceOver 
settings. Changing the verbosity option to speak hints doesn't seem to affect 
this. Whenever I'm on the home screen touching an icon it always says actions 
available. Any help?

Sent from my IPhone

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

moving apps with BT keyboard on appleTV4

[Kliphton Miller]

> Wanted those of you who like using blu-tooth keyboards know, if you like, it 
> is possible to move and arrange apps and folders with the bt keyboard.  Find 
> the app you want to move, hold down the enter key, voice over will state 
> “started moving”  Move it to your desired location and hit enter again, and 
> it will be moved.  If you would like to put it in a folder, when voiceover 
> states “press play for options”  At that point hit the spacebar, and you will 
> get your options of delete, move to folder, and then a list of the folders 
> you already have.
> 
> 
> 
> Checkout my groups
> Come be sole out for Christ!
> https://groups.io/g/committed-christian-life 
> 
> Come learn and teach about apple products!
> https://groups.io/g/peel-the-apple 
> Come chat about any and everything
> https://groups.io/g/PTA-open-topic 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Photos in IOS 10.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, if you do this the way I think you’re supposed to, and I had to create a 
special one for my 7-year-old daughter, sense she’s too young to call me, I 
added one to the one I created for her, which still didn’t label, so I found 
the photo in my library, tagged it, and went back into it, and it read the tag 
itself, but not the face in it.  Am I doing something wrong here?
> On Sep 14, 2016, at 6:25 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I think that's done with contacts. Add a photo of someone to their contact 
> entry, and Photos will use that to recognize them in pictures. I haven't 
> tried this yet, but that's my understanding of the feature. I hope there's 
> another way, which would require less use of contacts and finding pictures, 
> but I'm not sure.
>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 15:23, Jessica Moss > > wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve just updated to IOS 10, and so far am loving it.  I heard a rumor that 
>> you were supposed to be able to label items like people’s faces so that when 
>> VO read photos with those faces in them again, it would recognize them by 
>> name, instead of “one face,” or whatever number of faces were in the photo.  
>> Is that true?
>>  If that’s the case, where can I go to do that?  I love the new features 
>> photos has incorperated into IOS 10, and the Susan voice sounds amazing.  I 
>> haven’t gotten a chance to play around with anything else yet though.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV

[Saqib Hussain]

Hi. I just dictate into the remote and this is the best way unless you have to 
enter passwords.  
> On 14 Sep 2016, at 15:13, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> You know, I downloaded the remote app eons ago, but never think about using 
> it.  I think I'll get that set up once I get my new phone.  thanks for 
> reminding me of that.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:07 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I haven't got the upgrade yet. But Bluetooth keyboard is really good. You 
>> don't need to upgrade to get that. They had it at some point some months 
>> back. Really really helps a lot. Now there is also the iPhone remote app, 
>> which is supposed to be helpful.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 6:03 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> +1, I like the older keyboard better as well.  I haven’t tried a bluetooth 
>>> keyboard yet, at some point I know that’s due to be added.
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2016, at 12:10 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hey Mark,
 
 We had a 3rd gen for many years.  I honestly don't use the keyboard that 
 much, so perhaps last night was the first time I noticed.  It's really 
 very annoying, at least in my opinion. 
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Sep 13, 2016, at 10:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>  wrote:
> 
> Donna, they've always been that way on the 4th gen.
> 
> Are you new to TVOS?  It's not like it was on the 2nd and 3rd gens where 
> they were in a grid.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
> 
> i...@gillandmarketing.com
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 11:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Major issue with 4th Gen AppleTV
> 
> 
> When I tried using the keyboard last night, it was like all the letters 
> were arranged in one long row.  Made navigating quickly a hassle.
> Cheers
> Donna
>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 8:44 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not sure the issue, my netflix says it was recently updated so I 
>> assume I have the latest version.  When I click on my name I get the 
>> option to pick up where I left off on movies and the search with the 
>> keyboard seems ok, not great but rather unchanged where you arrow to the 
>> left or right.  Is this what you’re seeing or is there an issue I’m not 
>> picking up on.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 8:59 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah, give it a try.  When we first got our 4th Gen, you used to be 
>>> able to hear descriptions of movies/TV episodes.  Now you can't.  It 
>>> also used to be that I could click on my profile and have an option to 
>>> continue what I was watching.  that's gone now.  If I click on my 
>>> profile, I'm taken to "Popular on Netflix."  And I agree with Mark, 
>>> navigating the keyboard sucks now.  I had hoped that with recent legal 
>>> action, Netflix would improve, but if anything, it's gotten worse.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Sep 13, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Brian Fischler  
 wrote:
 
 Actually Netflix is one of the few apps that seems to work pretty good 
 with VO although I have not used  it in a week so hopefully I will not 
 be adding them to the list. Very disappointing with the direction of 
 the 4th get AppleTV.
> On Sep 13, 2016, at 5:32 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brian,
> 
> I was just thinking last night, that Netflix has been behaving 
> weirdly. don't have experience with other channels.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:48 PM, Brian Fischler  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> Curious if anyone else has noticed this as the accessibility of the 
>> 4th gen AppleTV seems to be going backwards. Now that the developers 
>> have control instead of Apple many channels are not accessible. I 
>> tried to watch something on ABC but since the latest update you can 
>> no longer select any of the genres listed there as nothing happens. 
>> ESPN is another as everything works perfect on the Apple 3rd Get but 
>> on the 4th Get you can watch their channels but none of their 
>> channels are labeled. Anyone else notice any of this?
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the 
>> list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is 

Re: Only Apple could do this.

[Saqib Hussain]

Hi. I’m going to wait for another year until the price drops to £500. I 
wouldn’t get a flat in London as I’m a northerner and we don’t live amongst the 
southern softies lol. People always come up to the north and make nice comments 
about our friendly hospitality. 
> On 14 Sep 2016, at 14:18, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Whoa, I just checked the pound, I think I should buy a flat in London now.  
> It’s 76P in the Dollar.  No wonder your home builders and real estate sales 
> are off the charts.  I thought it was a closer range than that.  Can you 
> exchange in to another currency and buy from that country instead that’s more 
> favorable?  I guess either way the value is the value and there’s not much 
> you can do about monetary policy.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Saqib Hussain > > wrote:
>> 
>> My god. It’s £599 for the basic iPhone 7 and I can no longer afford to 
>> upgrade every year. This year will be the first year where I I will be 
>> skipping the upgrade. Well if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it. No doubt the 
>> prices will drop on Amazon but even then the 7 Plus would still cost around 
>> £800 I have the 6S+ 64GB model and I don’t want to downsize to a smaller 
>> screen or storage capacity. I will just have to buy the 7+ 128GB next year. 
>> Prices have gone up by £100 because of the value of the pound dropping 
>> significantly. I’m not paying an extra £100 for that reason alone. 
>>> On 9 Sep 2016, at 22:39, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Starting price of 7 here is the 32 gig
>>> 1199.00 and that’s the 7, the 7+ is 1399 I believe.
>>>  
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Saturday, 10 September 2016 1:05 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: Only Apple could do this.
>>>  
>>> Ok, quick back of the napkin calculation here.  I show 649 US as about 840 
>>> NZ currency.  Can you buy them that inexpensively there?  If not, you 
>>> PayPal me the money, I’ll order and ship you the phone and bam, no import 
>>> tax.;)
>>> speaking in theoretical of course.;)
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:12 AM, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>>  
>>> I honestly couldn’t tell you.
>>>  
>>> Possibly a combination of a & b, but there is also the apple label and  the 
>>> fact that our devices are not locked to a network and there fore being open 
>>> we’re probably paying more.
>>>  
>>> You can get financing to buy a device but again that is through a finance 
>>> company who can charge high interest rates.
>>>  
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Friday, 9 September 2016 2:37 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: Only Apple could do this.
>>>  
>>> Simon, is it the exchange rate or the import taxation that makes these 
>>> devices so expensive for you down there?  I’d be down to help get um 
>>> “creative” on the sourcing and shipping if it would help you save a lot of 
>>> money.
>>>  
>>> On Sep 8, 2016, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>>  
>>> It’s not it’s again going to need the phone for gathering functionality.
>>>  
>>> What I’d like to know is will they replace my apple watch series 1 with the 
>>> new updated series 1 which they are putting the dual core processor into
>>>  This is the same processor that they are putting in the new series 2 watch
>>>  
>>> But the new series 2 watch really does sound great,
>>>  
>>> If only I could currently afford it.
>>>  
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>>  ] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2016 9:00 AM
>>> To: Macvisionaries >> >
>>> Subject: Only Apple could do this.
>>>  
>>> Hi.
>>>  
>>> I had a great laugh listening to the event when Apple said that water would 
>>> come back out of the watch speaker once it was put in water.
>>>  
>>> I’m definitely getting the new watch.  Does anyone know how independent it 
>>> is from the I phone?
>>>  
>>> Thanks.
>>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>>> 
>>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money 
>>> Giving page. 
>>> 
>>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
>>> http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>>>  where you can also 
>>> sponsor me online.
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> The following infor