Re: For those with more than one voice over language in your rotor, a question

[lenron brown]

I have had this issue as well. I figured it was a bug, and what do you
know others have this issue.

On 6/6/17, Anatoly Popko  wrote:
> Mary,
> Yes, I also have this situation happening occasionally. Without any
> particular reason in stock mail application the email that contains English
> text is read by Russian synthesis. In order to read it properly you have to
> manually change the language rotor setting.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 7 Jun 2017, at 04:30, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>
>> What I dscribed is the only situation which has caused for me what you
>> have explained. I am not saying it is what is occuring for you, just my
>> experience.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 7/06/2017, at 10:38, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>> I'm not sure I understand what you were saying, and if I do, I don't
>>> agree. That is because I don't see why the language would change for
>>> instants if the mail messages open, but not change if it is closed. That
>>> is with the language set to default, which in my case is US English Alex.
>>> Also, when you do switch languages with a  one finger vertical flick the
>>> new language is announced. This is not happening. Russian is two choices
>>> away, with US English and then Russian flipping down. This system has
>>> work too well for me for too many years for me to believe that all of a
>>> sudden I am doing something different. This just started, so I am going
>>> to respectfully disagree.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:00 PM, David Chittenden 
 wrote:

 Hi,

 The first situation occurs when the language is set to a specific
 language rather than default.

 The problem is occasionally the rotor sets onto language rather than
 character. I suspect this is because of the auto switching to actions or
 messages when those choices become available, then the rotor sets to the
 last choice in the list, which is languages by default. Now, a
 single-finger vertical flick changes the language, and when the change
 is from default to the same voice selection in the rotor, this is easily
 missed. So, now the auto-language switching is not active because the
 language is set on the specific language rather than the default
 language.

 Thin, if another single-finger vertical flick is detected, the language
 could have changed to Russian, without you really noticing.

 I figured this quirk out a few years ago, but have never written
 accessibility about the occasional situation. I just move language up
 one spot in the rotor settings so it is no longer the last option.

 Kind regards,

 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone

> On 7/06/2017, at 00:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>
> Hi all, I have an iPhone 7 Plus running the most recent data. I don't
> think my problem has anything to do with beta however, since it popped
> up before the most recent beta became available. A couple of days ago,
> a friend sent me an email, not in HTML just plain text, that had
> English and Russian text intermixed. Usually, I don't have any problem
> reading these mails, because VoiceOver very kindly switches between my
> default language, Alex, and the Russian voice which I have in my rotor.
> When I did the three finger touch on the screen to preview the message,
> I saw the first of the Russian sentences as well as English, and
> everything was read correctly. When I opened the mail and did my two
> finger flick up to read the entire message, Alex tried to read text,
> which meant he spelled all the letters, resulting in a garbage text.
> Then the next day, I got a message from Amazon which was all in
> English, all about Alexa. And for some strange reason, my Russian voice
> started reading some of that message. It was clearly not in Russian.
> But nonetheless there you go. I sent the message from Amazon to the
> folks at Apple accessibility explaining my problem and why I was
> sending this message. They said they could not reproduce the problem
> and told me to contact AppleCare. Not very helpful since I don't have
> AppleCare on this phone. Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else has
> experienced this inappropriate language switching.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
> the 

Re: For those with more than one voice over language in your rotor, a question

[Anatoly Popko]

Mary,
Yes, I also have this situation happening occasionally. Without any particular 
reason in stock mail application the email that contains English text is read 
by Russian synthesis. In order to read it properly you have to manually change 
the language rotor setting.
 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 7 Jun 2017, at 04:30, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> What I dscribed is the only situation which has caused for me what you have 
> explained. I am not saying it is what is occuring for you, just my experience.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 7/06/2017, at 10:38, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> I'm not sure I understand what you were saying, and if I do, I don't agree. 
>> That is because I don't see why the language would change for instants if 
>> the mail messages open, but not change if it is closed. That is with the 
>> language set to default, which in my case is US English Alex. Also, when you 
>> do switch languages with a  one finger vertical flick the new language is 
>> announced. This is not happening. Russian is two choices away, with US 
>> English and then Russian flipping down. This system has work too well for me 
>> for too many years for me to believe that all of a sudden I am doing 
>> something different. This just started, so I am going to respectfully 
>> disagree.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:00 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> The first situation occurs when the language is set to a specific language 
>>> rather than default.
>>> 
>>> The problem is occasionally the rotor sets onto language rather than 
>>> character. I suspect this is because of the auto switching to actions or 
>>> messages when those choices become available, then the rotor sets to the 
>>> last choice in the list, which is languages by default. Now, a 
>>> single-finger vertical flick changes the language, and when the change is 
>>> from default to the same voice selection in the rotor, this is easily 
>>> missed. So, now the auto-language switching is not active because the 
>>> language is set on the specific language rather than the default language.
>>> 
>>> Thin, if another single-finger vertical flick is detected, the language 
>>> could have changed to Russian, without you really noticing.
>>> 
>>> I figured this quirk out a few years ago, but have never written 
>>> accessibility about the occasional situation. I just move language up one 
>>> spot in the rotor settings so it is no longer the last option.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 7/06/2017, at 00:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Hi all, I have an iPhone 7 Plus running the most recent data. I don't 
 think my problem has anything to do with beta however, since it popped up 
 before the most recent beta became available. A couple of days ago, a 
 friend sent me an email, not in HTML just plain text, that had English and 
 Russian text intermixed. Usually, I don't have any problem reading these 
 mails, because VoiceOver very kindly switches between my default language, 
 Alex, and the Russian voice which I have in my rotor. When I did the three 
 finger touch on the screen to preview the message, I saw the first of the 
 Russian sentences as well as English, and everything was read correctly. 
 When I opened the mail and did my two finger flick up to read the entire 
 message, Alex tried to read text, which meant he spelled all the letters, 
 resulting in a garbage text. Then the next day, I got a message from 
 Amazon which was all in English, all about Alexa. And for some strange 
 reason, my Russian voice started reading some of that message. It was 
 clearly not in Russian. But nonetheless there you go. I sent the message 
 from Amazon to the folks at Apple accessibility explaining my problem and 
 why I was sending this message. They said they could not reproduce the 
 problem and told me to contact AppleCare. Not very helpful since I don't 
 have AppleCare on this phone. Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else has 
 experienced this inappropriate language switching.
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your 

Re: For those with more than one voice over language in your rotor, a question

[David Chittenden]

What I dscribed is the only situation which has caused for me what you have 
explained. I am not saying it is what is occuring for you, just my experience.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 7/06/2017, at 10:38, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> I'm not sure I understand what you were saying, and if I do, I don't agree. 
> That is because I don't see why the language would change for instants if the 
> mail messages open, but not change if it is closed. That is with the language 
> set to default, which in my case is US English Alex. Also, when you do switch 
> languages with a  one finger vertical flick the new language is announced. 
> This is not happening. Russian is two choices away, with US English and then 
> Russian flipping down. This system has work too well for me for too many 
> years for me to believe that all of a sudden I am doing something different. 
> This just started, so I am going to respectfully disagree.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:00 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The first situation occurs when the language is set to a specific language 
>> rather than default.
>> 
>> The problem is occasionally the rotor sets onto language rather than 
>> character. I suspect this is because of the auto switching to actions or 
>> messages when those choices become available, then the rotor sets to the 
>> last choice in the list, which is languages by default. Now, a single-finger 
>> vertical flick changes the language, and when the change is from default to 
>> the same voice selection in the rotor, this is easily missed. So, now the 
>> auto-language switching is not active because the language is set on the 
>> specific language rather than the default language.
>> 
>> Thin, if another single-finger vertical flick is detected, the language 
>> could have changed to Russian, without you really noticing.
>> 
>> I figured this quirk out a few years ago, but have never written 
>> accessibility about the occasional situation. I just move language up one 
>> spot in the rotor settings so it is no longer the last option.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 7/06/2017, at 00:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all, I have an iPhone 7 Plus running the most recent data. I don't think 
>>> my problem has anything to do with beta however, since it popped up before 
>>> the most recent beta became available. A couple of days ago, a friend sent 
>>> me an email, not in HTML just plain text, that had English and Russian text 
>>> intermixed. Usually, I don't have any problem reading these mails, because 
>>> VoiceOver very kindly switches between my default language, Alex, and the 
>>> Russian voice which I have in my rotor. When I did the three finger touch 
>>> on the screen to preview the message, I saw the first of the Russian 
>>> sentences as well as English, and everything was read correctly. When I 
>>> opened the mail and did my two finger flick up to read the entire message, 
>>> Alex tried to read text, which meant he spelled all the letters, resulting 
>>> in a garbage text. Then the next day, I got a message from Amazon which was 
>>> all in English, all about Alexa. And for some strange reason, my Russian 
>>> voice started reading some of that message. It was clearly not in Russian. 
>>> But nonetheless there you go. I sent the message from Amazon to the folks 
>>> at Apple accessibility explaining my problem and why I was sending this 
>>> message. They said they could not reproduce the problem and told me to 
>>> contact AppleCare. Not very helpful since I don't have AppleCare on this 
>>> phone. Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this 
>>> inappropriate language switching.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> To post to this group, send 

Re: For those with more than one voice over language in your rotor, a question

[Mary Otten]

Hi David,
I'm not sure I understand what you were saying, and if I do, I don't agree. 
That is because I don't see why the language would change for instants if the 
mail messages open, but not change if it is closed. That is with the language 
set to default, which in my case is US English Alex. Also, when you do switch 
languages with a  one finger vertical flick the new language is announced. This 
is not happening. Russian is two choices away, with US English and then Russian 
flipping down. This system has work too well for me for too many years for me 
to believe that all of a sudden I am doing something different. This just 
started, so I am going to respectfully disagree.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:00 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The first situation occurs when the language is set to a specific language 
> rather than default.
> 
> The problem is occasionally the rotor sets onto language rather than 
> character. I suspect this is because of the auto switching to actions or 
> messages when those choices become available, then the rotor sets to the last 
> choice in the list, which is languages by default. Now, a single-finger 
> vertical flick changes the language, and when the change is from default to 
> the same voice selection in the rotor, this is easily missed. So, now the 
> auto-language switching is not active because the language is set on the 
> specific language rather than the default language.
> 
> Thin, if another single-finger vertical flick is detected, the language could 
> have changed to Russian, without you really noticing.
> 
> I figured this quirk out a few years ago, but have never written 
> accessibility about the occasional situation. I just move language up one 
> spot in the rotor settings so it is no longer the last option.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 7/06/2017, at 00:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, I have an iPhone 7 Plus running the most recent data. I don't think 
>> my problem has anything to do with beta however, since it popped up before 
>> the most recent beta became available. A couple of days ago, a friend sent 
>> me an email, not in HTML just plain text, that had English and Russian text 
>> intermixed. Usually, I don't have any problem reading these mails, because 
>> VoiceOver very kindly switches between my default language, Alex, and the 
>> Russian voice which I have in my rotor. When I did the three finger touch on 
>> the screen to preview the message, I saw the first of the Russian sentences 
>> as well as English, and everything was read correctly. When I opened the 
>> mail and did my two finger flick up to read the entire message, Alex tried 
>> to read text, which meant he spelled all the letters, resulting in a garbage 
>> text. Then the next day, I got a message from Amazon which was all in 
>> English, all about Alexa. And for some strange reason, my Russian voice 
>> started reading some of that message. It was clearly not in Russian. But 
>> nonetheless there you go. I sent the message from Amazon to the folks at 
>> Apple accessibility explaining my problem and why I was sending this 
>> message. They said they could not reproduce the problem and told me to 
>> contact AppleCare. Not very helpful since I don't have AppleCare on this 
>> phone. Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this 
>> inappropriate language switching.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators 

Re: For those with more than one voice over language in your rotor, a question

[David Chittenden]

Hi,

The first situation occurs when the language is set to a specific language 
rather than default.

The problem is occasionally the rotor sets onto language rather than character. 
I suspect this is because of the auto switching to actions or messages when 
those choices become available, then the rotor sets to the last choice in the 
list, which is languages by default. Now, a single-finger vertical flick 
changes the language, and when the change is from default to the same voice 
selection in the rotor, this is easily missed. So, now the auto-language 
switching is not active because the language is set on the specific language 
rather than the default language.

Thin, if another single-finger vertical flick is detected, the language could 
have changed to Russian, without you really noticing.

I figured this quirk out a few years ago, but have never written accessibility 
about the occasional situation. I just move language up one spot in the rotor 
settings so it is no longer the last option.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 7/06/2017, at 00:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, I have an iPhone 7 Plus running the most recent data. I don't think 
> my problem has anything to do with beta however, since it popped up before 
> the most recent beta became available. A couple of days ago, a friend sent me 
> an email, not in HTML just plain text, that had English and Russian text 
> intermixed. Usually, I don't have any problem reading these mails, because 
> VoiceOver very kindly switches between my default language, Alex, and the 
> Russian voice which I have in my rotor. When I did the three finger touch on 
> the screen to preview the message, I saw the first of the Russian sentences 
> as well as English, and everything was read correctly. When I opened the mail 
> and did my two finger flick up to read the entire message, Alex tried to read 
> text, which meant he spelled all the letters, resulting in a garbage text. 
> Then the next day, I got a message from Amazon which was all in English, all 
> about Alexa. And for some strange reason, my Russian voice started reading 
> some of that message. It was clearly not in Russian. But nonetheless there 
> you go. I sent the message from Amazon to the folks at Apple accessibility 
> explaining my problem and why I was sending this message. They said they 
> could not reproduce the problem and told me to contact AppleCare. Not very 
> helpful since I don't have AppleCare on this phone. Anyway, I am wondering if 
> anyone else has experienced this inappropriate language switching.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

Actually, the TV app misses some things.  In my experience, when you get 
recommendations based on other things you have watched, they are not accessible 
with Voiceover.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:03 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli  
> wrote:
> 
> TV app works fine.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 4:25 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> 
> You raise an interesting point.  Thinking about Netflix, I wonder how the 
> phone app and the TV app compare.  I have the app on my phone, but never use 
> it.  I may have to check it out further just out of curiosity.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I think it depends on how the accessibility is implemented.  Issues on Apple 
>> may not exist on Android and vise versa.  Just a guess but I suspect that’s 
>> part of it.  Also, Apple has not done nearly as good of a job insisting on 
>> accessibility on the TV unit as they have on the phone in my opinion.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> that's interesting.  Given that the same issue of app developers 
>>> building--or not building in accessibility, it would seem that apps that 
>>> have problems on one device would have problems on the other.
>>> 
>>> As for 3 vs. 4th gen, it's true the 3rd gen was a cleaner interface but it 
>>> also didn't try to do as much.  I like the keypad on the 4th, and the 
>>> addition of Siri.  I also like the touchpad, for me it makes many things 
>>> more efficient.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  Not 
 sure what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like consistently 
 getting the code read to you that you use to register with the provider to 
 stream live content.  My local channels apps like CBS work more 
 consistently and accessibly in my experience.  I’m a much bigger fan of 
 the generation 3 than the 4.  The 3 was much cleaner and didn’t depend on 
 3rd parties as much.
 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 
> 3rd-party apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has 
> made them accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple 
> TV itself.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
>> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
>> 
>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon 
>> fire TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and 
>> processor and in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know 
>>> what I am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One 
>>> reason I want a 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got 
>>> a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the 
>>> world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn 
>>> your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in 
 my opinion.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching 
> to get numbers or punctuation.
> 
> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
> had the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the 
> world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn 
> your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it 

RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Sarai Bucciarelli]

TV app works fine.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 4:25 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

You raise an interesting point.  Thinking about Netflix, I wonder how the phone 
app and the TV app compare.  I have the app on my phone, but never use it.  I 
may have to check it out further just out of curiosity.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I think it depends on how the accessibility is implemented.  Issues on Apple 
> may not exist on Android and vise versa.  Just a guess but I suspect that’s 
> part of it.  Also, Apple has not done nearly as good of a job insisting on 
> accessibility on the TV unit as they have on the phone in my opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> that's interesting.  Given that the same issue of app developers 
>> building--or not building in accessibility, it would seem that apps that 
>> have problems on one device would have problems on the other.
>> 
>> As for 3 vs. 4th gen, it's true the 3rd gen was a cleaner interface but it 
>> also didn't try to do as much.  I like the keypad on the 4th, and the 
>> addition of Siri.  I also like the touchpad, for me it makes many things 
>> more efficient.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  Not 
>>> sure what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like consistently 
>>> getting the code read to you that you use to register with the provider to 
>>> stream live content.  My local channels apps like CBS work more 
>>> consistently and accessibly in my experience.  I’m a much bigger fan of the 
>>> generation 3 than the 4.  The 3 was much cleaner and didn’t depend on 3rd 
>>> parties as much.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 
 3rd-party apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has 
 made them accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple 
 TV itself.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
> 
> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon 
> fire TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and 
> processor and in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know 
>> what I am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One 
>> reason I want a 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got 
>> a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the 
>> world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn 
>> your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in 
>>> my opinion.
>>> 
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
 get numbers or punctuation.
 
 Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
 like Finder. Also a document scan function.
 
 iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
 still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
 had the bucks.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the 
 world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn 
 your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
>> 11.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[E.T.]

   I suppose I can wait. Might as well. 3 months will fly.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 12:51 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

Well there’s no point in buying the 7 when the 7s or 7s+ is released.  If you 
wait until September when I think the OS is released you might just as well get 
the latest phone instead of buying last year’s old news.



On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:

  Ok. Wireless charging is a nice feature but I can do without. So the 's' 
models are more of an update then. Then I likely will get a new 7 or 7 plus 
before or after, depending on when I get a ride outa town.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:39 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

We don’t know yet, the guess is wireless charging, different screen, faster 
processor, faster network chip, etc.  Apple has been on this kick of every 
other year going to a model with an S in it, 4, 4s, 5, 5s, 6, 6s, 7, 7s, etc.  
The plus means the screen is larger and usually cameras are a little enhanced.

Hope that helps.


On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:33 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Scott,
 I see that there will be a 7s/7s Plus. What does the 's' model have that the 
non 's' model doesn't? Maybe I will wait a bit longer.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:28 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

E.T. just get a new latest iPhone in September, IOS 11 won’t be out before then 
probably although I’m not sure the release date.  I didn’t catch that in the 
release as I could only drop in time to time.


On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:

I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a



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The following information is 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

That was my impression from the few times I have played around with it.  So 
that would support Scott's point.  I don't think the accessibility on the TV 
app is awful, it just isn't as good as it could be.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:28 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> NetFlix on the iPhone is quite accessible. I use it regularly.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 7/06/2017, at 07:25, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> You raise an interesting point.  Thinking about Netflix, I wonder how the 
>> phone app and the TV app compare.  I have the app on my phone, but never use 
>> it.  I may have to check it out further just out of curiosity.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it depends on how the accessibility is implemented.  Issues on 
>>> Apple may not exist on Android and vise versa.  Just a guess but I suspect 
>>> that’s part of it.  Also, Apple has not done nearly as good of a job 
>>> insisting on accessibility on the TV unit as they have on the phone in my 
>>> opinion.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 that's interesting.  Given that the same issue of app developers 
 building--or not building in accessibility, it would seem that apps that 
 have problems on one device would have problems on the other.
 
 As for 3 vs. 4th gen, it's true the 3rd gen was a cleaner interface but it 
 also didn't try to do as much.  I like the keypad on the 4th, and the 
 addition of Siri.  I also like the touchpad, for me it makes many things 
 more efficient.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  
> Not sure what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like 
> consistently getting the code read to you that you use to register with 
> the provider to stream live content.  My local channels apps like CBS 
> work more consistently and accessibly in my experience.  I’m a much 
> bigger fan of the generation 3 than the 4.  The 3 was much cleaner and 
> didn’t depend on 3rd parties as much.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 
>> 3rd-party apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has 
>> made them accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the 
>> Apple TV itself.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer 
>>> the 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
>>> 
>>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon 
>>> fire TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and 
>>> processor and in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Scott,
 Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what 
 I am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want 
 a 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to 
 me. (smiles)
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit 
> in my opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching 
>> to get numbers or punctuation.
>> 
>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
>> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
>> 
>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
>> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if 
>> I had the bucks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[David Chittenden]

NetFlix on the iPhone is quite accessible. I use it regularly.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 7/06/2017, at 07:25, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> You raise an interesting point.  Thinking about Netflix, I wonder how the 
> phone app and the TV app compare.  I have the app on my phone, but never use 
> it.  I may have to check it out further just out of curiosity.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I think it depends on how the accessibility is implemented.  Issues on Apple 
>> may not exist on Android and vise versa.  Just a guess but I suspect that’s 
>> part of it.  Also, Apple has not done nearly as good of a job insisting on 
>> accessibility on the TV unit as they have on the phone in my opinion.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> that's interesting.  Given that the same issue of app developers 
>>> building--or not building in accessibility, it would seem that apps that 
>>> have problems on one device would have problems on the other.
>>> 
>>> As for 3 vs. 4th gen, it's true the 3rd gen was a cleaner interface but it 
>>> also didn't try to do as much.  I like the keypad on the 4th, and the 
>>> addition of Siri.  I also like the touchpad, for me it makes many things 
>>> more efficient.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  Not 
 sure what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like consistently 
 getting the code read to you that you use to register with the provider to 
 stream live content.  My local channels apps like CBS work more 
 consistently and accessibly in my experience.  I’m a much bigger fan of 
 the generation 3 than the 4.  The 3 was much cleaner and didn’t depend on 
 3rd parties as much.
 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 
> 3rd-party apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has 
> made them accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple 
> TV itself.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
>> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
>> 
>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon 
>> fire TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and 
>> processor and in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what 
>>> I am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want 
>>> a 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to 
>>> me. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in 
 my opinion.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching 
> to get numbers or punctuation.
> 
> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
> had the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are 
>> people excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run 
>>> 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

You raise an interesting point.  Thinking about Netflix, I wonder how the phone 
app and the TV app compare.  I have the app on my phone, but never use it.  I 
may have to check it out further just out of curiosity.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I think it depends on how the accessibility is implemented.  Issues on Apple 
> may not exist on Android and vise versa.  Just a guess but I suspect that’s 
> part of it.  Also, Apple has not done nearly as good of a job insisting on 
> accessibility on the TV unit as they have on the phone in my opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> that's interesting.  Given that the same issue of app developers 
>> building--or not building in accessibility, it would seem that apps that 
>> have problems on one device would have problems on the other.
>> 
>> As for 3 vs. 4th gen, it's true the 3rd gen was a cleaner interface but it 
>> also didn't try to do as much.  I like the keypad on the 4th, and the 
>> addition of Siri.  I also like the touchpad, for me it makes many things 
>> more efficient.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  Not 
>>> sure what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like consistently 
>>> getting the code read to you that you use to register with the provider to 
>>> stream live content.  My local channels apps like CBS work more 
>>> consistently and accessibly in my experience.  I’m a much bigger fan of the 
>>> generation 3 than the 4.  The 3 was much cleaner and didn’t depend on 3rd 
>>> parties as much.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 
 3rd-party apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has 
 made them accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple 
 TV itself.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
> 
> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon 
> fire TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and 
> processor and in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
>> am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 
>> 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. 
>> (smiles)
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in 
>>> my opinion.
>>> 
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
 get numbers or punctuation.
 
 Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
 like Finder. Also a document scan function.
 
 iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
 still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
 had the bucks.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
>> 11.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, 

Re: Keyboards commands are going crazy

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Some more info please.  When you use Spotlight, you are pressing cmd-space to 
invoke it?  Then I assume that you're typing in the name of the application you 
wish to find.  Then what keys do you press?

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 6, 2017, at 13:38, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:

Thanks Tim, very helpful Answer, how ever, i press Cmd-tap and still the same, 
it happened again today,

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> That is correct.  The Finder cannot be closed, nor does it need to be.  
> Things like Spotlight are usually services, not apps, thus when you close it, 
> the Finder is still considered the running application, but focus is not 
> within the correct window.  The cmd-tab I mentioned will bring focus back to 
> the correct Finder window and you should be fine to proceed.
> 
> If you still have questions, feel free to ask away.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:13, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Tim:
> you are fully right,
> but the finder itself can not be closed,
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It's not really a bug.  It's due to layering.  When you open Spotlight, an 
>> invisible layer brings the Spotlight service into focus, therefore, VO works 
>> within the Spotlight layer.  When you close Spotlight, that layer is still 
>> there.  The sighted user will not notice it as it is invisible, and when 
>> they click an item visible to them on the screen, focus is automatically 
>> transferred to the other app and the selected item.  With VO, you can either 
>> press cmd-tab to make VO focus go back to the actual Finder, or click the 
>> mouse or Trackpad to get focus out of the Spotlight layer.
>> 
>> Hope that makes sense.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 07:37, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all:
>> 
>> I face a very strange issue, i made a restart and all are ok, but incase it 
>> will happen again.
>> while searching to find an app, i use the spot lite, after this, i can not 
>> use the Vo keys + shift + c, to go to my computer,, can not go to my disk 
>> top, and using the vo-f1 twice bring me just 1 window which is the finder.
>> so, is it usual bug? or i hit something by mistake?
>> Thanks 
>> 
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> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

I think it depends on how the accessibility is implemented.  Issues on Apple 
may not exist on Android and vise versa.  Just a guess but I suspect that’s 
part of it.  Also, Apple has not done nearly as good of a job insisting on 
accessibility on the TV unit as they have on the phone in my opinion.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> that's interesting.  Given that the same issue of app developers building--or 
> not building in accessibility, it would seem that apps that have problems on 
> one device would have problems on the other.
> 
> As for 3 vs. 4th gen, it's true the 3rd gen was a cleaner interface but it 
> also didn't try to do as much.  I like the keypad on the 4th, and the 
> addition of Siri.  I also like the touchpad, for me it makes many things more 
> efficient.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  Not 
>> sure what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like consistently 
>> getting the code read to you that you use to register with the provider to 
>> stream live content.  My local channels apps like CBS work more consistently 
>> and accessibly in my experience.  I’m a much bigger fan of the generation 3 
>> than the 4.  The 3 was much cleaner and didn’t depend on 3rd parties as much.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 
>>> 3rd-party apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has 
>>> made them accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple 
>>> TV itself.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
 
 The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
 TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
 in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
> am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 
> 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. 
> (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in 
>> my opinion.
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
>>> get numbers or punctuation.
>>> 
>>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
>>> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
>>> 
>>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
>>> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
>>> had the bucks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
 excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
> 11.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
>> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 
>> cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty 
>> hot.  Granted the device starts a
>> 
> 
> --
> The 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

that's interesting.  Given that the same issue of app developers building--or 
not building in accessibility, it would seem that apps that have problems on 
one device would have problems on the other.

As for 3 vs. 4th gen, it's true the 3rd gen was a cleaner interface but it also 
didn't try to do as much.  I like the keypad on the 4th, and the addition of 
Siri.  I also like the touchpad, for me it makes many things more efficient.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  Not 
> sure what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like consistently 
> getting the code read to you that you use to register with the provider to 
> stream live content.  My local channels apps like CBS work more consistently 
> and accessibly in my experience.  I’m a much bigger fan of the generation 3 
> than the 4.  The 3 was much cleaner and didn’t depend on 3rd parties as much.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 3rd-party 
>> apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has made them 
>> accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple TV itself.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
>>> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
>>> 
>>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Scott,
 Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
 am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh 
 is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
> opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
>> get numbers or punctuation.
>> 
>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
>> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
>> 
>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
>> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
>> had the bucks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
 11.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores 
> and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  
> Granted the device starts a
> 
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
 itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
 mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

The apps are far more hit and miss in my experience than the fire TV.  Not sure 
what’s at work there.  THere’s just simple stuff like consistently getting the 
code read to you that you use to register with the provider to stream live 
content.  My local channels apps like CBS work more consistently and accessibly 
in my experience.  I’m a much bigger fan of the generation 3 than the 4.  The 3 
was much cleaner and didn’t depend on 3rd parties as much.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 3rd-party 
> apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has made them 
> accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple TV itself.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
>> get from the perspective of a. user.
>> 
>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I am 
>>> missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh is 
>>> to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
 opinion.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
> get numbers or punctuation.
> 
> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
> Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had 
> the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
 the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
 the device starts a
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

Also, if you have sited users, the Apple TV is not 4K ready and the fire TV is. 
 Amazon content is also streamed in 4K.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:59 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Just to offer another perspective, I'm quite happy with our Apple TV 4th gen. 
>  Now, I've never seen the amazon Fire, so can't compare the two, but at this 
> point, I'm not motivated to switch, either.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:29 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
>> opinion.
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
>>> numbers or punctuation.
>>> 
>>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
>>> Finder. Also a document scan function.
>>> 
>>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
>>> have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the 
>>> bucks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
 excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
>> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
>> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
>> the device starts a
>> 
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

I haven’t looked for direct TV as I’m a FIOS man myself.

The fire TV uses voice view which is becoming very advanced.  You not only get 
access to the native fire TV screens but the apps are becoming more and more 
accessible.

Hope that helps.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
> 
> Really Scott?  I thought voiceover worked well on the 4th gen, what does 
> amazon fire TV use for accessibility?  I know it had a voice serch, but that 
> was very clunky and choppy when I tried it about a year ago, how much has it 
> improved?  Also, does fire TV have direct TV now as an available app?  With 
> the channels I get with direct tv now, I am not giving that up.
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:47 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>>  I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd was no 
>> longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
>>> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
>>> 
>>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Scott,
 Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
 am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh 
 is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
> opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
>> get numbers or punctuation.
>> 
>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
>> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
>> 
>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
>> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
>> had the bucks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
 11.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores 
> and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  
> Granted the device starts a
> 
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
 itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
 mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 
 Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

A lot of the local channel apps, the ability to register your phone with your 
provider to get streaming content, the sling app, twitter, etc.  Quite a bit on 
Amazon that just doesn’t work right, at least for me on the Apple TV side.


> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I'm curious which apps you have found to be accessible on the Amazon TV that 
> are not accessible on the Apple TV. Interestingly, Amazon is bringing an app 
> to Apple TV. I will be curious how that turns out in terms of excess ability.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
>> get from the perspective of a. user.
>> 
>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I am 
>>> missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh is 
>>> to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
 opinion.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
> get numbers or punctuation.
> 
> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
> Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had 
> the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
 the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
 the device starts a
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

Well there’s no point in buying the 7 when the 7s or 7s+ is released.  If you 
wait until September when I think the OS is released you might just as well get 
the latest phone instead of buying last year’s old news.


> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Ok. Wireless charging is a nice feature but I can do without. So the 's' 
> models are more of an update then. Then I likely will get a new 7 or 7 plus 
> before or after, depending on when I get a ride outa town.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/6/2017 8:39 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> We don’t know yet, the guess is wireless charging, different screen, faster 
>> processor, faster network chip, etc.  Apple has been on this kick of every 
>> other year going to a model with an S in it, 4, 4s, 5, 5s, 6, 6s, 7, 7s, 
>> etc.  The plus means the screen is larger and usually cameras are a little 
>> enhanced.
>> 
>> Hope that helps.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:33 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>>  I see that there will be a 7s/7s Plus. What does the 's' model have that 
>>> the non 's' model doesn't? Maybe I will wait a bit longer.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:28 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 E.T. just get a new latest iPhone in September, IOS 11 won’t be out before 
 then probably although I’m not sure the release date.  I didn’t catch that 
 in the release as I could only drop in time to time.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
>> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
>> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
>> the device starts a
>> 
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Safari- I messed up something

[Nancy Badger]

Everyone,
I have recently messed something up in Safari and can’t figure out how to fix 
it. It used to be that when I opened Safari, I would land in the address box 
and I would navigate to the right. I would then hit something like www…web 
content area. then I would interact with it and be in the web page. Now, when I 
open Safari, I am in a list of favorite web sites and tabs. I can’t figure out 
how to get to the actual web page. I tried toggling the tab view and it did not 
seem to help. I tried playing around in the “view” options and that did not 
work either. I am using the most recent version of Mac os on an imac. Any help 
would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Nancy

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Re: Keyboards commands are going crazy

[Ramy Moustafa]

Thanks Tim, very helpful Answer, how ever, i press Cmd-tap and still the same, 
it happened again today,

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> That is correct.  The Finder cannot be closed, nor does it need to be.  
> Things like Spotlight are usually services, not apps, thus when you close it, 
> the Finder is still considered the running application, but focus is not 
> within the correct window.  The cmd-tab I mentioned will bring focus back to 
> the correct Finder window and you should be fine to proceed.
> 
> If you still have questions, feel free to ask away.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:13, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Tim:
> you are fully right,
> but the finder itself can not be closed,
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It's not really a bug.  It's due to layering.  When you open Spotlight, an 
>> invisible layer brings the Spotlight service into focus, therefore, VO works 
>> within the Spotlight layer.  When you close Spotlight, that layer is still 
>> there.  The sighted user will not notice it as it is invisible, and when 
>> they click an item visible to them on the screen, focus is automatically 
>> transferred to the other app and the selected item.  With VO, you can either 
>> press cmd-tab to make VO focus go back to the actual Finder, or click the 
>> mouse or Trackpad to get focus out of the Spotlight layer.
>> 
>> Hope that makes sense.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 07:37, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all:
>> 
>> I face a very strange issue, i made a restart and all are ok, but incase it 
>> will happen again.
>> while searching to find an app, i use the spot lite, after this, i can not 
>> use the Vo keys + shift + c, to go to my computer,, can not go to my disk 
>> top, and using the vo-f1 twice bring me just 1 window which is the finder.
>> so, is it usual bug? or i hit something by mistake?
>> Thanks 
>> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Nickus,
Thanks.
I thought i heard earlier this year that december would be that model and 
january would be the mac pro.
Yes to the pro tools hdx cards.
I have them in a card cage now & was hoping the mac pro was being released 
earlier than next january! :(
I have several thunderbolt drives and heard the new mac pro could handle them.
GOD for you is the Creator of the engineers that produced Apple


On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Nickus de Vos wrote:

> Chuck
> They didn't announce a New Mac Pro, but they did announce a new Version of 
> the iMac called iMac pro which will be coming out in December. They say this 
> iMac pro will be the most powerful Mac ever, it will come with up to a 18 
> Core processor,128 GB RAM and 4 TB internal flash storage. Depending on the 
> needs you have in your studio, this machine should work for you. I think it 
> will suit 90% of professionals, those who doesn't need A machine which can 
> take additional PCI card's like the ProTools HDX cards. 
> 
> Personally I doubt Apple will ever release a new version of the Mac pro 
> again, I think this iMac pro is their answer for professional users and as I 
> said it will suit the needs of most.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 06 Jun 2017, at 18:03, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
>> 
>> iPad Pro is interesting and i probably get one. iMac Pro looks like high end 
>> if it runs reasonable quiet and cool. The speaker may have better sound than 
>> Sonos. Did not say anything about speaker phone function. Should be able to 
>> route the phone audio to the speaker. What is the borring name again?
>> 
>> Take care
>> 
>>> 6. jun. 2017 kl. 17.47 skrev E.T. :
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd was no 
>>> longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
 
 The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
 TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
 in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
> am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 
> 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. 
> (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in 
>> my opinion.
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
>>> get numbers or punctuation.
>>> 
>>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
>>> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
>>> 
>>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
>>> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
>>> had the bucks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
 excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
> 11.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 

Re: help comparing specs of 13-inch MBA and new 13-inch MBP

[Donna Goodin]

Thank you, Tim!  I thought I was losing it. 

I was looking at this site while listening to the WWDC event.  I guess my brain 
is only capable of so much multi-tasking. lol  Turns out I was comparing the 
Air with the MacBook, not the MBP.  Thanks for putting me on the right track.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm not sure that I see what you're speaking of.  All the MBP's have faster 
> processors than the MBA's that I saw on this page.  The MacBook itself has a 
> higher price tag than the MBA, but includes the Forced Touch Trackpad, it's 
> lighter and probably a few other things that I can't recall.  The MBP's tend 
> to have better displays, more cores in their processors, the TouchBar and 
> Touch ID and such.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm comparing specs between the 13-inch MBA and the new 13-inch MBP, and I'm 
> perplexed.  The MBP has the higher price tag, but appears to come with slower 
> processors.  Is this right, or am I missing something?  Here's the link I'm 
> looking at:
> https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/  
> Cheers,
> Donna 
> 
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Re: help comparing specs of 13-inch MBA and new 13-inch MBP

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I'm not sure that I see what you're speaking of.  All the MBP's have faster 
processors than the MBA's that I saw on this page.  The MacBook itself has a 
higher price tag than the MBA, but includes the Forced Touch Trackpad, it's 
lighter and probably a few other things that I can't recall.  The MBP's tend to 
have better displays, more cores in their processors, the TouchBar and Touch ID 
and such.

Hope that makes sense.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Hi all,

I'm comparing specs between the 13-inch MBA and the new 13-inch MBP, and I'm 
perplexed.  The MBP has the higher price tag, but appears to come with slower 
processors.  Is this right, or am I missing something?  Here's the link I'm 
looking at:
https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/  
Cheers,
Donna 

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help comparing specs of 13-inch MBA and new 13-inch MBP

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

I'm comparing specs between the 13-inch MBA and the new 13-inch MBP, and I'm 
perplexed.  The MBP has the higher price tag, but appears to come with slower 
processors.  Is this right, or am I missing something?  Here's the link I'm 
looking at:
https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/  
Cheers,
Donna 

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Re: For those with more than one voice over language in your rotor, a question

[Jürgen Fleger]

Hello Mary,
no, I’ve never experienced that so far even though I do have several languages 
in the Rotor.
All the best
Jürgen

> Am 06.06.2017 um 16:55 schrieb Mary Otten :
> 

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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

They added "native core bluetooth" to connect to devices including 
glucose monitors from dexcom. This was at 19:57 in the presentation.


https://www.apple.com/apple-events/june-2017/

CB

On 6/6/17 11:26 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
I did hear something about the gym equipment. But I didn't hear 
anything about the diabetes thing. I guess we all know in the fall.

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:23 AM, Jonathan Cohn > wrote:


I did hear something about integrating with a diabetes constant 
monitor and integrating with gym equipment so that the equipment will 
receive heart rate from watch and watch will receive data from the 
exercise equipment.



On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:04 AM Mary Otten > wrote:


Hi Gary, I saw a thing yesterday talking about the top features
in watchOS for, and it didn't say anything at all about CGM.
However, I had seen something earlier that talked about this
feature perhaps being incorporated into a band rather than into
the watch itself, because Apple does not want the watch to have
to go through FDA control. God knows if it's true. Like you, I am
hoping that they come up with something good.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:12 AM, gary-melconian
> wrote:
>
> Any news on apple watch  OS  as far as any hints to what tim
cook  is wearing as far as cgm and that sort of stuff goes. I am
a type 2 diabetic and  rely on the dexcom cgm and I was hoping
for better advancements in this area with a watch sort of device
that apple could come up to give the 21 million diabetics  in the
world a reason to get an apple watch. I am still interested to se
if anything will be talked about that in the future.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
] On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:51 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

> Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>
> I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple
home pod speaker,
>
> But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm
headphone jack or lightening connector for headphones,
>
> I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods
>
>
> But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to
buy 1 let alone 2 although  I'm not sure we get them this year or
next -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>
> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially
as a stereo pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets
his act together with Siri. It's clearly way behind google at
this point. The idea that this new speaker will be smart enough
to know where it is in a room and adjust its output accordingly
is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the Mac pro,
iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm
disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not
surprised. And I think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has
really good potential, although I will be curious to see how it
all works with voiceover. I was excited about the announcement of
a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes the number pad, only
to be disappointed when I realized it has the same awful feel as
all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been producing.
No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No
thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really
works well for touch typist? That is after all, who does most of
the serious typing in the world.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados
> wrote:
>>
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store
shelf but
>> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18
cores and
>> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot. 
Granted

>> the device starts a
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the
 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Nickus de Vos]

Chuck
They didn't announce a New Mac Pro, but they did announce a new Version of the 
iMac called iMac pro which will be coming out in December. They say this iMac 
pro will be the most powerful Mac ever, it will come with up to a 18 Core 
processor,128 GB RAM and 4 TB internal flash storage. Depending on the needs 
you have in your studio, this machine should work for you. I think it will suit 
90% of professionals, those who doesn't need A machine which can take 
additional PCI card's like the ProTools HDX cards. 

Personally I doubt Apple will ever release a new version of the Mac pro again, 
I think this iMac pro is their answer for professional users and as I said it 
will suit the needs of most.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 06 Jun 2017, at 18:03, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> 
> iPad Pro is interesting and i probably get one. iMac Pro looks like high end 
> if it runs reasonable quiet and cool. The speaker may have better sound than 
> Sonos. Did not say anything about speaker phone function. Should be able to 
> route the phone audio to the speaker. What is the borring name again?
> 
> Take care
> 
>> 6. jun. 2017 kl. 17.47 skrev E.T. :
>> 
>> Scott,
>>  I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd was no 
>> longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
>>> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
>>> 
>>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Scott,
 Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
 am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh 
 is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
> opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
>> get numbers or punctuation.
>> 
>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
>> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
>> 
>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
>> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
>> had the bucks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
 11.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores 
> and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  
> Granted the device starts a
> 
 
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Re: Keyboards commands are going crazy

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

That is correct.  The Finder cannot be closed, nor does it need to be.  Things 
like Spotlight are usually services, not apps, thus when you close it, the 
Finder is still considered the running application, but focus is not within the 
correct window.  The cmd-tab I mentioned will bring focus back to the correct 
Finder window and you should be fine to proceed.

If you still have questions, feel free to ask away.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:13, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:

Tim:
you are fully right,
but the finder itself can not be closed,
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It's not really a bug.  It's due to layering.  When you open Spotlight, an 
> invisible layer brings the Spotlight service into focus, therefore, VO works 
> within the Spotlight layer.  When you close Spotlight, that layer is still 
> there.  The sighted user will not notice it as it is invisible, and when they 
> click an item visible to them on the screen, focus is automatically 
> transferred to the other app and the selected item.  With VO, you can either 
> press cmd-tab to make VO focus go back to the actual Finder, or click the 
> mouse or Trackpad to get focus out of the Spotlight layer.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 07:37, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I face a very strange issue, i made a restart and all are ok, but incase it 
> will happen again.
> while searching to find an app, i use the spot lite, after this, i can not 
> use the Vo keys + shift + c, to go to my computer,, can not go to my disk 
> top, and using the vo-f1 twice bring me just 1 window which is the finder.
> so, is it usual bug? or i hit something by mistake?
> Thanks 
> 
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Re: Some apps for my work

[Larry Thacker Jr.]

This costs a little but works very well.  I have used it both to capture video 
and to make Mp3 of video, all in one download step.  Despite the name, it works 
on more sites than just Youtube.

https://softorino.com/youtube-converter 




> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:18 AM, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hi again my friends:
> I am searching to find a good and accessible apps that can do the following:
> 1- an app to download youtube files as mp3 to use them in my work.
> 2- an app to convert videos too mp3s.
> 3- 
> Any ideas will be highly abbreciated
> Thanks in advance 
> 
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Some apps for my work

[Ramy Moustafa]

Hi again my friends:
I am searching to find a good and accessible apps that can do the following:
1- an app to download youtube files as mp3 to use them in my work.
2- an app to convert videos too mp3s.
3- 
Any ideas will be highly abbreciated
Thanks in advance 

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Reading the subject when standing on an email thread

[Ramy Moustafa]

Hello all:

AM using the mail app on Sierra, while navigating let’s say the mac mailing 
list that we are on, is there a way to make the Voice over read the subject for 
a big thread instead of reading the sender’s names first?
sometimes the names are very very long, and i need to know the subject very 
quickly

Thanks

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Re: Keyboards commands are going crazy

[Ramy Moustafa]

Tim:
you are fully right,
but the finder itself can not be closed,
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It's not really a bug.  It's due to layering.  When you open Spotlight, an 
> invisible layer brings the Spotlight service into focus, therefore, VO works 
> within the Spotlight layer.  When you close Spotlight, that layer is still 
> there.  The sighted user will not notice it as it is invisible, and when they 
> click an item visible to them on the screen, focus is automatically 
> transferred to the other app and the selected item.  With VO, you can either 
> press cmd-tab to make VO focus go back to the actual Finder, or click the 
> mouse or Trackpad to get focus out of the Spotlight layer.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 07:37, Ramy Moustafa  wrote:
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I face a very strange issue, i made a restart and all are ok, but incase it 
> will happen again.
> while searching to find an app, i use the spot lite, after this, i can not 
> use the Vo keys + shift + c, to go to my computer,, can not go to my disk 
> top, and using the vo-f1 twice bring me just 1 window which is the finder.
> so, is it usual bug? or i hit something by mistake?
> Thanks 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Vo-shift-home or end does not take e me to the end of text

[Ramy Moustafa]

Thanks so much Tim

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:16 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As Anne mentioned, VO-Home and VO-End without the shift is what you're 
> looking for.  Alternatively, you can use the method suggested by Alex, both 
> will do what you wish.  A reminder that VO-shift-Home and VO-shift-End take 
> you to the first and last visible item in the given window or dialog, whereas 
> the VO-Home and VO-End take you to the very beginning or end of document, 
> list etc.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 08:35, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
> Really, command-up and command-down will be far easier and I recommend using 
> them. You also never said whether you are interacting with the right part of 
> the app.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 22:35, Ramy Moustafa > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Alex:
>> Thanks so much Am using a full keyboard, so i have home and end. and all are 
>> working outside documents, but inside documents, can not go to the first 
>> letter on the document, by using the Vo-shift-home
>> why is htis/
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> You want function-vo-shift-left or right. If you have physical home/end 
>>> keys, don't worry about the function key.
>>> 
>>> The main thing to do, though, is interact with the text field first. The 
>>> keystrokes you described move you in whatever you're in, be it a window, 
>>> webpage, table, etc. Far easier for text fields is to just use command-up 
>>> or down, instead of worrying about VO commands.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 4, 2017, at 20:45, Ramy Moustafa > wrote:
 
 Hello:
 
 I’m Using the Full size mac Keyboard,  when i’m inside the text edit, 
 using, the Vo-shift-home or end tones not take me to the start or end of 
 my document.
 any ideas?
 Thanks in advance 
 
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Re: Vo-shift-home or end does not take e me to the end of text

[Ramy Moustafa]

Alex:
Yes, i’m interacting with the Text itself
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:35 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Really, command-up and command-down will be far easier and I recommend using 
> them. You also never said whether you are interacting with the right part of 
> the app.
> 
> --
> Alex Hall
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 22:35, Ramy Moustafa > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Alex:
>> Thanks so much Am using a full keyboard, so i have home and end. and all are 
>> working outside documents, but inside documents, can not go to the first 
>> letter on the document, by using the Vo-shift-home
>> why is htis/
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> You want function-vo-shift-left or right. If you have physical home/end 
>>> keys, don't worry about the function key.
>>> 
>>> The main thing to do, though, is interact with the text field first. The 
>>> keystrokes you described move you in whatever you're in, be it a window, 
>>> webpage, table, etc. Far easier for text fields is to just use command-up 
>>> or down, instead of worrying about VO commands.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 4, 2017, at 20:45, Ramy Moustafa > wrote:
 
 Hello:
 
 I’m Using the Full size mac Keyboard,  when i’m inside the text edit, 
 using, the Vo-shift-home or end tones not take me to the start or end of 
 my document.
 any ideas?
 Thanks in advance 
 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Terje Strømberg]

iPad Pro is interesting and i probably get one. iMac Pro looks like high end if 
it runs reasonable quiet and cool. The speaker may have better sound than 
Sonos. Did not say anything about speaker phone function. Should be able to 
route the phone audio to the speaker. What is the borring name again?

Take care

> 6. jun. 2017 kl. 17.47 skrev E.T. :
> 
> Scott,
>   I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd was no 
> longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
>> get from the perspective of a. user.
>> 
>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>>  Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
>>> am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh 
>>> is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
 opinion.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
> get numbers or punctuation.
> 
> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
> Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had 
> the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
 the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
 the device starts a
 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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>>> For more options, visit 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

How do you figure the accessibility sucks?  I mean, it's true, the 3rd-party 
apps can be dicey, as they depend on whether the developer has made them 
accessible.  But I have no accessibility gripes  with the Apple TV itself.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
> get from the perspective of a. user.
> 
> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire TV 
> is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and in my 
> opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>>  Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I am 
>> missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh is 
>> to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
>>> opinion.
>>> 
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
 numbers or punctuation.
 
 Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
 Finder. Also a document scan function.
 
 iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
 have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the 
 bucks.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
>>> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
>>> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
>>> the device starts a
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
 
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 The 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

Just to offer another perspective, I'm quite happy with our Apple TV 4th gen.  
Now, I've never seen the amazon Fire, so can't compare the two, but at this 
point, I'm not motivated to switch, either.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:29 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
> opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
>> numbers or punctuation.
>> 
>>  Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
>> Finder. Also a document scan function.
>> 
>>  iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
>> have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the 
>> bucks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
 On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 
> GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the 
> device starts a
> 
 
 --
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 Visionaries list.
 
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 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
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 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
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 The archives for this list can be searched at:
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 --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Mary Otten]

Yes, the fire TV has DirecTV now. And the accessibility has improved a lot from 
what it was a year or more ago. It uses voice view screen reader, developed by 
the accessibility folks in house at Amazon. And it's very good. The issue as 
with the Apple TV has to do with Apple accessibility. Some apps are great. 
Others are not great. It all depends on the app developer to implement excess 
ability.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:52 AM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
> 
> Really Scott?  I thought voiceover worked well on the 4th gen, what does 
> amazon fire TV use for accessibility?  I know it had a voice serch, but that 
> was very clunky and choppy when I tried it about a year ago, how much has it 
> improved?  Also, does fire TV have direct TV now as an available app?  With 
> the channels I get with direct tv now, I am not giving that up.
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:47 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>>  I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd was no 
>> longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 
>>> 3rd get from the perspective of a. user.
>>> 
>>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>>> 
 On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Scott,
 Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
 am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh 
 is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
> opinion.
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
>> get numbers or punctuation.
>> 
>> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably 
>> like Finder. Also a document scan function.
>> 
>> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
>> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I 
>> had the bucks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 
 11.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores 
> and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  
> Granted the device starts a
> 
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
 itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
 mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Kliphton Miller]

I myself am very happy with the appleTV4, it does what I need it to do.  But we 
all have different tastes.
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:47 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd was no 
> longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
>> get from the perspective of a. user.
>> 
>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>>  Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
>>> am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh 
>>> is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
 opinion.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
> get numbers or punctuation.
> 
> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
> Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had 
> the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
 the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
 the device starts a
 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
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>> 
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> Visionaries list.
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Kliphton Miller]

Really Scott?  I thought voiceover worked well on the 4th gen, what does amazon 
fire TV use for accessibility?  I know it had a voice serch, but that was very 
clunky and choppy when I tried it about a year ago, how much has it improved?  
Also, does fire TV have direct TV now as an available app?  With the channels I 
get with direct tv now, I am not giving that up.
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:47 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd was no 
> longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
>> get from the perspective of a. user.
>> 
>> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire 
>> TV is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and 
>> in my opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>>  Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I 
>>> am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh 
>>> is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
 The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
 opinion.
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to 
> get numbers or punctuation.
> 
> Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
> Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
> iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I 
> still have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had 
> the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
 the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
 the device starts a
 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>>> Visit this group at 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[E.T.]

Scott,
   I see. A friend lost his 3rd to a scumbag and at that time the 3rd 
was no longer available so he got a 4th. He is happy with it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:41 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
get from the perspective of a. user.

The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire TV 
is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and in my 
opinion the accessibility is more consistent.


On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Scott,
  Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I am 
missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh is to 
add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
opinion.


On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:

 A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
numbers or punctuation.

 Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
Finder. Also a document scan function.

 iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the bucks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people excited 
about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
Cheers,
Donna

On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:

I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a



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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Mary Otten]

I'm curious which apps you have found to be accessible on the Amazon TV that 
are not accessible on the Apple TV. Interestingly, Amazon is bringing an app to 
Apple TV. I will be curious how that turns out in terms of excess ability.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:41 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
> get from the perspective of a. user.
> 
> The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire TV 
> is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and in my 
> opinion the accessibility is more consistent.
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>>  Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I am 
>> missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh is 
>> to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
>>> opinion.
>>> 
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
 numbers or punctuation.
 
 Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
 Finder. Also a document scan function.
 
 iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
 have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the 
 bucks.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
>>> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
>>> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
>>> the device starts a
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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 Quinn - you can reach Cara at 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[E.T.]

   Ok. Wireless charging is a nice feature but I can do without. So the 
's' models are more of an update then. Then I likely will get a new 7 or 
7 plus before or after, depending on when I get a ride outa town.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:39 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

We don’t know yet, the guess is wireless charging, different screen, faster 
processor, faster network chip, etc.  Apple has been on this kick of every 
other year going to a model with an S in it, 4, 4s, 5, 5s, 6, 6s, 7, 7s, etc.  
The plus means the screen is larger and usually cameras are a little enhanced.

Hope that helps.


On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:33 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Scott,
  I see that there will be a 7s/7s Plus. What does the 's' model have that the 
non 's' model doesn't? Maybe I will wait a bit longer.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:28 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

E.T. just get a new latest iPhone in September, IOS 11 won’t be out before then 
probably although I’m not sure the release date.  I didn’t catch that in the 
release as I could only drop in time to time.


On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:

 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a



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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

It’s a lot of money but it’s not the worst thing electronics wise I’ve bought.  
I had a VIdikron projector for a while that cost almost as much as a house new. 
(I bought it used so it cost as much as a nice car for me). Fantastic projector 
and all but I left and sold it with my house when I moved to California many 
years ago.  I could take it on my taxes as a business deduction which helped.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:02 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> No way would I spend 10 Grand on a Mac book Pro. Only way I would buy
> that if I had some type of major video production company. At least
> you know it should be future proof bro.
> 
> On 6/6/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> Scott, your crazy dude,
>> 
>>  Yeah I'd like one but still I'm not that crazy.
>> 
>> When the pricing comes out check out the apple.co.nz site and price the
>> fully spec'd iMac Pro.
>> Yor 10K dollars is nothing compared to our pricing.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:43 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>> 
>> BTW, what do you think of the iMac pro?
>> 
>> Mine will probably cost over 10,000 but I’m going to get one.
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My IMac has a round circle type of cable in the middle of the machine.  Is
>>> that not a Mac Safe?  I thought it was.
 On 5 Jun 2017, at 00:57, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 
 Hi Kawal,
 
 I'd be very surprised if your Imac had a magsafe power adaptor  as
 well,
 
 I work with iMacs from 2009 to 2016 models and all of them run from
 mains power with a single cable into the middle of the back of the
 machine, They have not to this point made an iMac with magsafe power
 connectivity
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
 Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 3:33 AM
 To: Macvisionaries 
 Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
 
 I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.  My MacMini does
 not have a Mac Safe.  I got confused as my I Mac does.  I have plugged
 that MacMini in more than two years ago and have not really unplugged it
 much so I forgot.
 
 Kawal.
> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed
> 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does
> the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
> 
> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
> 
>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott.
 
 A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
 convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
 
 After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch
 which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the
 Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is
 better than the second Gen.
 
 Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar
 on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the
 Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the
 Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their
 Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will purchase another Apple
 computer as both my computers are going strong and as long as I can
 run the latest software on them then it's just fine for me.  However,
 one of these days we won't be able to run the latest software so then
 it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set
 ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram
 because I will be able to!
 
 Kawal.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> 
> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a
> pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Scott Granados]

 I was just guessing about the 10K but knowing Apple and how they over charge 
for ports, if we’re talking 18 cores and 128 GB of storage along with 16 GB of 
video ram I bet the box is expensive.  Not to mention 4TB of SSD storage.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Scott, your crazy dude,
> 
>  Yeah I'd like one but still I'm not that crazy.
> 
> When the pricing comes out check out the apple.co.nz site and price the fully 
> spec'd iMac Pro.
> Yor 10K dollars is nothing compared to our pricing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:43 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
> 
> BTW, what do you think of the iMac pro?
> 
> Mine will probably cost over 10,000 but I’m going to get one.
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> My IMac has a round circle type of cable in the middle of the machine.  Is 
>> that not a Mac Safe?  I thought it was.
>>> On 5 Jun 2017, at 00:57, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kawal,
>>> 
>>> I'd be very surprised if your Imac had a magsafe power adaptor  as 
>>> well,
>>> 
>>> I work with iMacs from 2009 to 2016 models and all of them run from 
>>> mains power with a single cable into the middle of the back of the 
>>> machine, They have not to this point made an iMac with magsafe power 
>>> connectivity
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 3:33 AM
>>> To: Macvisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>>> 
>>> I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.  My MacMini does not 
>>> have a Mac Safe.  I got confused as my I Mac does.  I have plugged that 
>>> MacMini in more than two years ago and have not really unplugged it much so 
>>> I forgot.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 
 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the 
 magsafe deliver mains voltage?
 
 As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
 
 Regards,
 
 Gena
 
> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Gena
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott.
>>> 
>>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I 
>>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>> 
>>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
>>> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
>>> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
>>> better than the second Gen.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on 
>>> it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac 
>>> Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe 
>>> plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe 
>>> stuff.  I don't know when I will purchase another Apple computer as 
>>> both my computers are going strong and as long as I can run the latest 
>>> software on them then it's just fine for me.  However, one of these 
>>> days we won't be able to run the latest software so then it will be 
>>> time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever 
>>> I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be 
>>> able to!
>>> 
>>> Kawal. 
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a 
 pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest 
 model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for 
 several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I 
 thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
 physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and 
 also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting 
 Siri when 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

So the accessibility sucks on the Apple TV 4th gen.  I myself prefer the 3rd 
get from the perspective of a. user.

The apps are hit and miss when it comes to accessibility.  The Amazon fire TV 
is less expensive, more powerful in terms of graphics and processor and in my 
opinion the accessibility is more consistent.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:38 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know what I am 
> missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I want a 4fh is to 
> add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it to me. (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
>> opinion.
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
>>> numbers or punctuation.
>>> 
>>>  Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
>>> Finder. Also a document scan function.
>>> 
>>>  iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
>>> have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the 
>>> bucks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
 excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
>> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
>> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
>> the device starts a
>> 
> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

We don’t know yet, the guess is wireless charging, different screen, faster 
processor, faster network chip, etc.  Apple has been on this kick of every 
other year going to a model with an S in it, 4, 4s, 5, 5s, 6, 6s, 7, 7s, etc.  
The plus means the screen is larger and usually cameras are a little enhanced.

Hope that helps.

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:33 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   I see that there will be a 7s/7s Plus. What does the 's' model have that 
> the non 's' model doesn't? Maybe I will wait a bit longer.
> 
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/6/2017 8:28 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> E.T. just get a new latest iPhone in September, IOS 11 won’t be out before 
>> then probably although I’m not sure the release date.  I didn’t catch that 
>> in the release as I could only drop in time to time.
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
 new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB 
 of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
 starts a
 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[E.T.]

Scott,
   Perhaps our viewing habits are different. Might bve I do not know 
what I am missing but the ATV 3rd works just fine for me. One reason I 
want a 4fh is to add apps not available on the 3rd. Got a 4th? Send it 
to me. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:29 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
opinion.


On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
numbers or punctuation.

  Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
Finder. Also a document scan function.

  iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the bucks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:

So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people excited 
about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
Cheers,
Donna

On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:

 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a



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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[E.T.]

Scott,
   I see that there will be a 7s/7s Plus. What does the 's' model have 
that the non 's' model doesn't? Maybe I will wait a bit longer.



From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/6/2017 8:28 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

E.T. just get a new latest iPhone in September, IOS 11 won’t be out before then 
probably although I’m not sure the release date.  I didn’t catch that in the 
release as I could only drop in time to time.


On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a



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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Chris,
I'm coming in to this thread late but Is there a new mac pro?
I had heard that a new mac pro was coming january of 2018 but I thought may be 
apple went early?
I need a new mac pro for my studio & was waiting for it!
GOD for you is the Creator of the engineers that produced Apple




On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:01 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

> I'm holding out for a Kaby Lake Mac Mini refresh to replace my aging 2009 
> model.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 6/6/17 2:39 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>> Yeah can't say I was overly impressed,
>> Great stuff if your into video creation / editing or virtual reality 
>> creation but really nothing exciting
>> Oh waw safari has a popup blocker, Hmmm, yes IE has had that for years / 
>> versions,
>> So has firefox and google chrome,
>> The files app / feature of the iPad is of interest  and the home speaker to 
>> me is just an apple version of my sonos speakers but on a lesser scale,
>>  I don't always have apple music signed up to but do use spotify and my 
>> itunes music library
>>  As for the hardware, well the notebooks are just an increase in processor 
>> type / quality up to the cabielake,
>> Still I think the notebooks are lacking in features.
>> 
>>  The new updates to the iMac sound of interest but as Scott you have said,
>> Holy bad ass batman!
>> 
>>  The new iMac Pro range, dude give me a fully spec'ed  out iMac Pro,
>>  Althoughyou guys don't have to pay our prices,
>> 
>>  Although I don't need a 5K screen res.
>> 
>> And I would like to see a new iPad Mini I'd like an iPad mini Pro,  From: 
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:38 AM
>> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
>> Subject: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>> 
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>> starts a
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

The Apple TV isn’t that great.  The amazon fire TV is a better unit in my 
opinion.

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:31 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   A single keyboard that has all of the characters, no more switching to get 
> numbers or punctuation.
> 
>   Some other changes, one of which may be good is a Files app probably like 
> Finder. Also a document scan function.
> 
>   iPhone 5 and 5c will be left behind as well as iPad 4th and older. I still 
> have an iPad mini 2nd but would rather get an Apple TV 4th if I had the bucks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
 new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB 
 of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
 starts a
 
>>> 
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>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Mary Otten]

Well that is good news, Scott. I was basing what I said on what I have read 
other people say, which is that the new magic keyboard, the one without the 
keypad, is just like the one included on the MacBook and the new pros. That is, 
not much travel and not much feel of spacing between the keys. I would love to 
be wrong. The keyboard with a number pad is just the thing for people who want 
to use num-pad commander,

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Actually, Mary, that’s not quite correct.  The wireless keyboards from Apple 
> (magic keyboards) are quite good and I’m like you picky about m y keyboards.  
> I do not like the one included on the laptop itself but the one I use 
> wirelessly from Apple is quite comfortable and has all the keys including 
> function.
> 
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo 
>> pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with 
>> Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new 
>> speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its 
>> output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the 
>> Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm 
>> disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I 
>> think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential, 
>> although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was 
>> excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes 
>> the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same 
>> awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been 
>> producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No 
>> thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works well for 
>> touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing in the 
>> world.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>>> starts a
>>> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

Yea but I bet your 3500 dollar speakers are very good and like you said, 5.1.  
If I’m going to go for stereo or 5.1 I’ll go Sonos.

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:25 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:
> 
> Totally agree with you. that’s  nott that  bad. I have a  5.1 sound system 
> that  cost more than those $700 book shelfs. They are about $3500 .   also 
> have a Samsung oled which I paid about $6500 back in the day.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 3:16 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> 
> Well, to be interesting, this speaker is going to have to sound a whole hell 
> of a lot better than anything Amazon has produced. That doesn't sound all 
> that great. I'm looking at this as a sort of a replacement for a regular 
> stereo system in a room that's not too large. $700 were really nice stereo 
> pair of bookshelf speakers isn't all that awful. Think about the higher and 
> bookshelf speakers like BMW. Or other high-end makers of speakers. If these 
> are in that class, then that's a whole different thing than what you get from 
> something like the echo, which sells for about half the price I guess, but 
> isn't all that special. It's also not all that smart, and the skills are, in 
> my opinion, a pain in the butt, because they are very reliant on the Alexa 
> app, plus you have to actually find them. It's not intuitive. So Apple could 
> do something good. But will they?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 2:50 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I am not impressed with this speaker. Google home and echo are both 
>> already pretty nice and they are going for being smart. The Home pod 
>> seems to be geared towards music. Oh did I forget it's priced more 
>> than I am willing to pay. $350 wow really apple. Now the new mac Pro 
>> seems to be pretty powerful. I don't need anything that pricy but if I 
>> had the cash I would maybe consider. Duel booting one of those babies 
>> and calling it a day. Sad times about the keyboard though. I am not a 
>> fan of the new keyboards.
>> 
>>> On 6/5/17, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a 
>>> stereo pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act 
>>> together with Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The 
>>> idea that this new speaker will be smart enough to know where it is 
>>> in a room and adjust its output accordingly is interesting. I am not 
>>> the least bit interested in the Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is 
>>> absurd for anything I would want. I'm disappointed about the mini not 
>>> getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I think the new stuff for 
>>> the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential, although I will be 
>>> curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was excited about 
>>> the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes the 
>>> number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same 
>>> awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been 
>>> producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. 
>>> No thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works 
>>> well for touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious 
>>> typing in the world.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados 
 
 wrote:
 
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
 but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 
 cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty 
 hot.  Granted the device starts a
 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

E.T. just get a new latest iPhone in September, IOS 11 won’t be out before then 
probably although I’m not sure the release date.  I didn’t catch that in the 
release as I could only drop in time to time.

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>> starts a
>> 
> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

As far as I read, the Files app is supposed to look across various file storage 
locations like iCloud and Google Drive and have them in one "Files" accessible 
location.  Don't really know much else though, sorry.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 6, 2017, at 09:24, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:

How does the file app contrast with the iCloud app available with IOS 10?



On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 7:53 AM lenron brown > wrote:
Hmmm Wish they would have put this file app feature on the phones as
well. I do love the idea of a 512 gb IPad though

On 6/6/17, Donna Goodin > wrote:
> I agree about that.  But there's no way there's going to be a $10,000 MBP in
> my future.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:22 AM, Simon Fogarty > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Donna,
>>
>> I feel the same way but I'd still like more ram and bigger ssd as well in
>> my MBA.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:51 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>>
>> Hmm, that'll do for me.  The MBP is a little rich for my blood.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> The NBA got a processor bump. That's it.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin > wrote:

 So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people
 excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  > wrote:
>
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS
> 11.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world,
> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind
> off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>
>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf
>> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18
>> cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty
>> hot.  Granted the device starts a
>>
>
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  and 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

I would not really go for the speaker either.  For that much money I’ll totally 
outfit my home with google home devices and be done with it.  Siri just isn’t 
good enough and I’m suspicious of Apple catching up but I will keep an open 
mind and at least try it out in the store once released.

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:50 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> I am not impressed with this speaker. Google home and echo are both
> already pretty nice and they are going for being smart. The Home pod
> seems to be geared towards music. Oh did I forget it's priced more
> than I am willing to pay. $350 wow really apple. Now the new mac Pro
> seems to be pretty powerful. I don't need anything that pricy but if I
> had the cash I would maybe consider. Duel booting one of those babies
> and calling it a day. Sad times about the keyboard though. I am not a
> fan of the new keyboards.
> 
> On 6/5/17, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo
>> pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with
>> Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new
>> speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its
>> output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the
>> Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm
>> disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I
>> think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential,
>> although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was
>> excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes
>> the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same
>> awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been
>> producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No
>> thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works well for
>> touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing in the
>> world.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the
>>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB
>>> of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device
>>> starts a
>>> 
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>>> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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> 
> 
> -- 
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> Cell: 985-271-2832
> Skype: ron.brown762
> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Mary Otten]

I did hear something about the gym equipment. But I didn't hear anything about 
the diabetes thing. I guess we all know in the fall.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 8:23 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I did hear something about integrating with a diabetes constant monitor and 
> integrating with gym equipment so that the equipment will receive heart rate 
> from watch and watch will receive data from the exercise equipment.  
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:04 AM Mary Otten  wrote:
>> Hi Gary, I saw a thing yesterday talking about the top features in watchOS 
>> for, and it didn't say anything at all about CGM. However, I had seen 
>> something earlier that talked about this feature perhaps being incorporated 
>> into a band rather than into the watch itself, because Apple does not want 
>> the watch to have to go through FDA control. God knows if it's true. Like 
>> you, I am hoping that they come up with something good.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:12 AM, gary-melconian  
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Any news on apple watch  OS  as far as any hints to what tim cook  is 
>> > wearing as far as cgm and that sort of stuff goes. I am a type 2 diabetic 
>> > and  rely on the  dexcom cgm and I was hoping for better advancements in 
>> > this area with a watch sort of device that apple could come up to give the 
>> > 21 million diabetics  in the world a reason to get an apple watch. I am 
>> > still interested to se if anything will be talked about that in the future.
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
>> > Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:51 PM
>> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> > Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>> >
>> > I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple home pod 
>> > speaker,
>> >
>> > But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm headphone 
>> > jack or lightening connector for headphones,
>> >
>> > I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods
>> >
>> >
>> > But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to buy 1 let 
>> > alone 2 although  I'm not sure we get them this year or next -Original 
>> > Message-
>> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> > Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
>> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> > Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>> >
>> > I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo 
>> > pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with 
>> > Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new 
>> > speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its 
>> > output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in 
>> > the Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm 
>> > disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And 
>> > I think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential, 
>> > although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was 
>> > excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that 
>> > includes the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has 
>> > the same awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has 
>> > been producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. 
>> > No thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works well 
>> > for touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing 
>> > in the world.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> >>
>> >> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but
>> >> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and
>> >> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted
>> >> the device starts a
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> >> Visionaries list.
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

Actually, Mary, that’s not quite correct.  The wireless keyboards from Apple 
(magic keyboards) are quite good and I’m like you picky about m y keyboards.  I 
do not like the one included on the laptop itself but the one I use wirelessly 
from Apple is quite comfortable and has all the keys including function.
 

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo 
> pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with 
> Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new 
> speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its 
> output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the 
> Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm 
> disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I 
> think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential, 
> although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was 
> excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes 
> the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same awful 
> feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been producing. No 
> key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No thank you. Why oh 
> why can't they make a keyboard that really works well for touch typist? That 
> is after all, who does most of the serious typing in the world.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>> starts a
>> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Jonathan Cohn]

How does the file app contrast with the iCloud app available with IOS 10?



On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 7:53 AM lenron brown  wrote:

> Hmmm Wish they would have put this file app feature on the phones as
> well. I do love the idea of a 512 gb IPad though
>
> On 6/6/17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> > I agree about that.  But there's no way there's going to be a $10,000
> MBP in
> > my future.
> > Cheers,
> > Donna
> >> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:22 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Donna,
> >>
> >> I feel the same way but I'd still like more ram and bigger ssd as well
> in
> >> my MBA.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> >> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:51 PM
> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> >>
> >> Hmm, that'll do for me.  The MBP is a little rich for my blood.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Donna
> >>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The NBA got a processor bump. That's it.
> >>> Mary
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>  So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people
>  excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>  Cheers,
>  Donna
> > On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> >
> > I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS
> > 11.
> >
> > From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> > "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world,
> > all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind
> > off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> > E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> >
> >> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> >> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> >>
> >> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf
> >> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18
> >> cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty
> >> hot.  Granted the device starts a
> >>
> >
> > --
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Scott Granados]

It shouldn’t have any connector.

You don’t use these for line in or out.  Mainly for streaming content etc.

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> Will Apple's HomePod (Siri Speaker) have a 3.5MM HeadPhone Jack or a Lighting 
> Connector? Just WonderIn
> At 02:09 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:
>> The HomePod speaker looks really interesting, and I'm looking forward to it. 
>> It has great features but ultimately the audio quality will make or break it 
>> for me since I am very fussy about audio quality in general.
>> The new iMac pro should cover the needs of most professional users and looks 
>> like a great solution, personally I will never need that much power though.
>> I am a bit disappointed that The normal iMac's doesn't come with SSD Storage 
>> options as standard. SSD drives is the future, and in my opinion the fusion 
>> drives isn't that great. Maybe if it came with a 1 TB spinning drive with 
>> like 128 GB SSD as standard. When it's time to upgrade my iMac, i'll 
>> definitely configure it with a SSD even though it will work out quite 
>> expensive.
>> 
>> 
>> On the software side I'm glad to see a big siri update, but apart from that 
>> there's nothing really revolutionary about iOS11 and macOS.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On 05 Jun 2017, at 22:38, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> >
>> > So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> >
>> > Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
>> > the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 
>> > GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the 
>> > device starts a
>> >
>> > --
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> For more 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Jonathan Cohn]

I did hear something about integrating with a diabetes constant monitor and
integrating with gym equipment so that the equipment will receive heart
rate from watch and watch will receive data from the exercise equipment.


On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:04 AM Mary Otten  wrote:

> Hi Gary, I saw a thing yesterday talking about the top features in watchOS
> for, and it didn't say anything at all about CGM. However, I had seen
> something earlier that talked about this feature perhaps being incorporated
> into a band rather than into the watch itself, because Apple does not want
> the watch to have to go through FDA control. God knows if it's true. Like
> you, I am hoping that they come up with something good.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:12 AM, gary-melconian 
> wrote:
> >
> > Any news on apple watch  OS  as far as any hints to what tim cook  is
> wearing as far as cgm and that sort of stuff goes. I am a type 2 diabetic
> and  rely on the  dexcom cgm and I was hoping for better advancements in
> this area with a watch sort of device that apple could come up to give the
> 21 million diabetics  in the world a reason to get an apple watch. I am
> still interested to se if anything will be talked about that in the future.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
> > Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:51 PM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> >
> > I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple home pod
> speaker,
> >
> > But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm headphone
> jack or lightening connector for headphones,
> >
> > I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods
> >
> >
> > But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to buy 1 let
> alone 2 although  I'm not sure we get them this year or next -Original
> Message-
> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> > Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> >
> > I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a
> stereo pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act
> together with Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea
> that this new speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room
> and adjust its output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit
> interested in the Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I
> would want. I'm disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not
> surprised. And I think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good
> potential, although I will be curious to see how it all works with
> voiceover. I was excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard
> and that includes the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized
> it has the same awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple
> has been producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the
> keys. No thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works
> well for touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious
> typing in the world.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> >>
> >> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but
> >> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and
> >> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted
> >> the device starts a
> >>
> >> --
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Re: More on Swift Playgrounds

[Donna Goodin]

Yeah, I saw that.  It's my husband's and he doesn't care, so not my problem. :)
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> You also won't be able to run iOS 11 on that iPad either.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone  
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Huh.  That's too bad.  I was really looking forward to checking it out, but 
>> I'm not going to buy an iPad just to do that.  thanks, Tim.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 9:23 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> For whatever reason, Apple did not make Swift Playground compatible with 
>>> the current iPad line.  Only the iPad Air, the iPad Mini 2 and up along 
>>> with the iPad Pro models.  There's usually some underlying rationale to do 
>>> with the processor, the graphics capabilities or sometimes just because 
>>> that's what they've decided.  In any case, it appears that your out of luck 
>>> with that model of iPad.
>>> 
>>> Sorry.
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 06:54, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> so after much effort, I've gotten my husband's iPad updated.  The iPad is a 
>>> 4th gen.  But when I try to download Swift Playgrounds, I get an error 
>>> message that it is not compatible with my device.  That doesn't seem 
>>> possible, given that the 5th gens aren't out yet.  Anyone have any ideas 
>>> what the problem might be?
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Mary Otten]

Well, I guess Alexis smarts are in the eye of the beholder. I find Alexa off 
and telling me she doesn't know can't say at Cetera. Really as bad or worse 
than Siri, and at least with Siri, I get dictation on my phone. You are correct 
that if you know the name of the skill, and it doesn't require linking account, 
you can just enable it via your echo or other device. The problem is when you 
don't know the skill and you want to know it. I find searching for skills to be 
a frustrating time consuming experience and if Alexa we're all that smart, she 
would be able to look in her own database of skills and give me listings of 
skills that pertain to whatever keyword I came up with. That would be a really 
smart assistant, not something that relies on a separate app that is kind of a 
pain. Just my two cents.
 Even with Amazon shopping, she often doesn't get it right, even if it's 
something I have purchased before. When she gets it right, it's great. But 
quite often, I need to go and use either Safari or the Amazon app. That kind of 
inconsistency as well as overreliance on the app is what turns me off about 
Alexa. She's great for setting timers though.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 11:31 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Mary, let me correct you on a few things here. Alexa has been in development 
> for quite a few years and I find her to be very smart. Also, skills don't 
> rely totally on the Alexa app. If you know what skill you want to enable, you 
> can ask Alexa to enable it for you, thus not having to use the app so much.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, to be interesting, this speaker is going to have to sound a whole hell 
>> of a lot better than anything Amazon has produced. That doesn't sound all 
>> that great. I'm looking at this as a sort of a replacement for a regular 
>> stereo system in a room that's not too large. $700 were really nice stereo 
>> pair of bookshelf speakers isn't all that awful. Think about the higher and 
>> bookshelf speakers like BMW. Or other high-end makers of speakers. If these 
>> are in that class, then that's a whole different thing than what you get 
>> from something like the echo, which sells for about half the price I guess, 
>> but isn't all that special. It's also not all that smart, and the skills 
>> are, in my opinion, a pain in the butt, because they are very reliant on the 
>> Alexa app, plus you have to actually find them. It's not intuitive. So Apple 
>> could do something good. But will they?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 2:50 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am not impressed with this speaker. Google home and echo are both
>>> already pretty nice and they are going for being smart. The Home pod
>>> seems to be geared towards music. Oh did I forget it's priced more
>>> than I am willing to pay. $350 wow really apple. Now the new mac Pro
>>> seems to be pretty powerful. I don't need anything that pricy but if I
>>> had the cash I would maybe consider. Duel booting one of those babies
>>> and calling it a day. Sad times about the keyboard though. I am not a
>>> fan of the new keyboards.
>>> 
 On 6/5/17, Mary Otten  wrote:
 I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo
 pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with
 Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new
 speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its
 output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the
 Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm
 disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I
 think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential,
 although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was
 excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that 
 includes
 the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same
 awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been
 producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No
 thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works well for
 touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing in the
 world.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
> 
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the
> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Mary Otten]

I saw a couple of folks articles yesterday about first listen to the new 
speaker. They were very impressed as compared with the play three, which I 
suppose is the speaker to compare it with. The thing that most intrigues me 
about the speaker, especially as a stereo pair, is the reputed ability to have 
a really good stereo field in various places in the room. Not just one sweet 
spot. If that turns out to be true, and I get through my medical crap this 
year, I'm going to buy myself a pair of those and replace a big stereo system 
that I love, but really is too old. And if I could get away from airport 
expresses, I could easily update my Wi-Fi and we would all be happier with 
better speeds throughout the house. But the medical stuff has to come first. 
Nuts.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 11:51 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple home pod 
> speaker,
> 
> But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm headphone jack 
> or lightening connector for headphones,
> 
> I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods
> 
> 
> But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to buy 1 let alone 
> 2 although  I'm not sure we get them this year or next 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> 
> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo 
> pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with 
> Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new 
> speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its 
> output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the 
> Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm 
> disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I 
> think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential, 
> although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was 
> excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes 
> the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same awful 
> feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been producing. No 
> key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No thank you. Why oh 
> why can't they make a keyboard that really works well for touch typist? That 
> is after all, who does most of the serious typing in the world.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>> starts a
>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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> 

Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

I wish the Drobo Dashboard worked with voiceover.

CB

On 6/5/17 2:27 PM, E.T. wrote:

Chris,
   I am not a speed demon. I plan tasks so I can walk away and do some 
fun things like watching tv or sleeping. Been times I knew a task 
might take hours so I do those at night.


   I had a WD drive go south and it had data not stored elsewhere. So 
I am now a believer in redundancy. This is why I am more concerned 
about the reliability factor.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 11:12 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Seems like an external SSD would slow things down to whatever the limit
is on your USB. USB 2.0 real-world throughput usually peaks at about
30MB/s or so. If you don't have to have the speed, such as for backups
or archvies, spinning disks are a lot cheaper per GB. USB 3.0 seems to
peak at around 200MB/s. The internal SSD on a MacBook can hit around
1900MBs read speeds. The 1TB spinning disk external USB 3 drive on my
Mac Mini seems to peak at about 60MB/s but I just use it for archiving
old files that I might need someday to save space on the internal 
fast SSD.


CB

On 6/5/17 11:35 AM, E.T. wrote:

Chris,
   I replaced the spinning drive with an SSD, much faster. I put the
old drive into an OWC USB enclosure, and may use it as a backup.

   Currently I use some WD My Passport externals for backups, keeping
Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner on separate drives. As funds come
in, I may look at using external SSD drives. Do you reckon that an SSD
is more reliable that I could use one large drive and partition it?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 8:27 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:

To figure out exactly which drive fits which computer they have an
online upgrade matching page here:

https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/

So they would need your exact model identifier, such as MacBookPro 
12,1,

in About This Mac then System Report. The one I was citing is here:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/Y3SSD6E960/

It replaces the 2.5" spinning disk drive with an SSD of a similar 
shape.


CB

On 6/4/17 11:16 PM, lenron brown wrote:

Is this the drive for the 2015 and 2014 MBP, and would you happen to
have a link to it? 1 tb for 380 is not so bad considering the fact
that this drive on some places is close to $900.

On 6/4/17, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:

My wife upgraded her MacBook from a 500GB regular drive to a 1TB
SSD. I
got the Other World Computing bundle which included the special
screwdrivers to take her laptop apart, a USB external drive case to
put
her old drive in and the new 1TB SSD. That kit is currently $389. I
probably could have found the raw drive and such cheaper elsewhere
but I
knew the OWC set would work.

CB

On 6/4/17 5:34 PM, gary-melconian wrote:

Where are you getting that price tag  for ssd drives . I just
upgrade  a
machine with a ssd 512 for $200 .it was one of the brand nname
ones. I
picked it up off of amazon.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lenron brown
Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this
computer can
last because there is no way I want or can really upgrade to
another. I
mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going to cost me almost 300
for a
256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have
to get
someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done for
nothing
but that upgrade is pretty much the price for building a computer.
Hope to
see some nice stuff from wwdc though.

On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:

The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it
wasn't
a few months ago when I got a new one.

On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a
laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.

--
Alex Hall





On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce 
wrote:

Hello,

That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e.
It is
fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped
externally. Or
does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?

As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

Regards,

Gena


On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu 
wrote:

My MacMini is a 2014 model.

On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Mary Otten]

Hi Gary, I saw a thing yesterday talking about the top features in watchOS for, 
and it didn't say anything at all about CGM. However, I had seen something 
earlier that talked about this feature perhaps being incorporated into a band 
rather than into the watch itself, because Apple does not want the watch to 
have to go through FDA control. God knows if it's true. Like you, I am hoping 
that they come up with something good.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:12 AM, gary-melconian  wrote:
> 
> Any news on apple watch  OS  as far as any hints to what tim cook  is wearing 
> as far as cgm and that sort of stuff goes. I am a type 2 diabetic and  rely 
> on the  dexcom cgm and I was hoping for better advancements in this area with 
> a watch sort of device that apple could come up to give the 21 million 
> diabetics  in the world a reason to get an apple watch. I am still interested 
> to se if anything will be talked about that in the future.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:51 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> 
> I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple home pod 
> speaker,
> 
> But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm headphone jack 
> or lightening connector for headphones,
> 
> I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods
> 
> 
> But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to buy 1 let alone 
> 2 although  I'm not sure we get them this year or next -Original 
> Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> 
> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo 
> pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with 
> Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new 
> speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its 
> output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the 
> Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm 
> disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I 
> think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential, 
> although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was 
> excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes 
> the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same awful 
> feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been producing. No 
> key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No thank you. Why oh 
> why can't they make a keyboard that really works well for touch typist? That 
> is after all, who does most of the serious typing in the world.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
>> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
>> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
>> the device starts a
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

I'm holding out for a Kaby Lake Mac Mini refresh to replace my aging 
2009 model.


CB

On 6/6/17 2:39 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Yeah can't say I was overly impressed,
Great stuff if your into video creation / editing or virtual reality creation 
but really nothing exciting
Oh waw safari has a popup blocker, Hmmm, yes IE has had that for years / 
versions,
So has firefox and google chrome,
The files app / feature of the iPad is of interest  and the home speaker to me 
is just an apple version of my sonos speakers but on a lesser scale,
  I don't always have apple music signed up to but do use spotify and my itunes 
music library
  
As for the hardware, well the notebooks are just an increase in processor type / quality up to the cabielake,

Still I think the notebooks are lacking in features.

  The new updates to the iMac sound of interest but as Scott you have said,
Holy bad ass batman!

  The new iMac Pro range, dude give me a fully spec'ed  out iMac Pro,
  Althoughyou guys don't have to pay our prices,

  Although I don't need a 5K screen res.

And I would like to see a new iPad Mini I'd like an iPad mini Pro,  From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:38 AM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a



--
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[E.T.]

Simon,
   I don't know which is which but if a device is 32bit its toast. As 
are any 32bit apps that do not get updated. Safe bet many that are free 
will fall by the wayside.


   As to the Files app, I would not be surprised that it shows up on 
iPhones too.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 11:59 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

ET,

 Interesting that the iPad minis back to the 2 are stil going to be supported 
with IOS 11
 The file  app si only on the pads not the phone if I'm not mistaken.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I have the 5. iPad 4th and older is out too.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 3:27 PM, gary-melconian wrote:

What I phone do you have. Will there bbe issues with an I phone 6 or 7 getting 
I os 11. What about an ipod or I pad that is a year or 2 old as well. just 
wondering.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 3:22 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a







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For those with more than one voice over language in your rotor, a question

[Mary Otten]

Hi all, I have an iPhone 7 Plus running the most recent data. I don't think my 
problem has anything to do with beta however, since it popped up before the 
most recent beta became available. A couple of days ago, a friend sent me an 
email, not in HTML just plain text, that had English and Russian text 
intermixed. Usually, I don't have any problem reading these mails, because 
VoiceOver very kindly switches between my default language, Alex, and the 
Russian voice which I have in my rotor. When I did the three finger touch on 
the screen to preview the message, I saw the first of the Russian sentences as 
well as English, and everything was read correctly. When I opened the mail and 
did my two finger flick up to read the entire message, Alex tried to read text, 
which meant he spelled all the letters, resulting in a garbage text. Then the 
next day, I got a message from Amazon which was all in English, all about 
Alexa. And for some strange reason, my Russian voice started reading some of 
that message. It was clearly not in Russian. But nonetheless there you go. I 
sent the message from Amazon to the folks at Apple accessibility explaining my 
problem and why I was sending this message. They said they could not reproduce 
the problem and told me to contact AppleCare. Not very helpful since I don't 
have AppleCare on this phone. Anyway, I am wondering if anyone else has 
experienced this inappropriate language switching.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: More on Swift Playgrounds

[Daniel Miller]

You also won't be able to run iOS 11 on that iPad either.

Sent from my iPhone  

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Huh.  That's too bad.  I was really looking forward to checking it out, but 
> I'm not going to buy an iPad just to do that.  thanks, Tim.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 9:23 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> For whatever reason, Apple did not make Swift Playground compatible with the 
>> current iPad line.  Only the iPad Air, the iPad Mini 2 and up along with the 
>> iPad Pro models.  There's usually some underlying rationale to do with the 
>> processor, the graphics capabilities or sometimes just because that's what 
>> they've decided.  In any case, it appears that your out of luck with that 
>> model of iPad.
>> 
>> Sorry.
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 06:54, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> so after much effort, I've gotten my husband's iPad updated.  The iPad is a 
>> 4th gen.  But when I try to download Swift Playgrounds, I get an error 
>> message that it is not compatible with my device.  That doesn't seem 
>> possible, given that the 5th gens aren't out yet.  Anyone have any ideas 
>> what the problem might be?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
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>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Re: More on Swift Playgrounds

[Donna Goodin]

Huh.  That's too bad.  I was really looking forward to checking it out, but I'm 
not going to buy an iPad just to do that.  thanks, Tim.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 9:23 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> For whatever reason, Apple did not make Swift Playground compatible with the 
> current iPad line.  Only the iPad Air, the iPad Mini 2 and up along with the 
> iPad Pro models.  There's usually some underlying rationale to do with the 
> processor, the graphics capabilities or sometimes just because that's what 
> they've decided.  In any case, it appears that your out of luck with that 
> model of iPad.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 06:54, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> so after much effort, I've gotten my husband's iPad updated.  The iPad is a 
> 4th gen.  But when I try to download Swift Playgrounds, I get an error 
> message that it is not compatible with my device.  That doesn't seem 
> possible, given that the 5th gens aren't out yet.  Anyone have any ideas what 
> the problem might be?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: More on Swift Playgrounds

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

For whatever reason, Apple did not make Swift Playground compatible with the 
current iPad line.  Only the iPad Air, the iPad Mini 2 and up along with the 
iPad Pro models.  There's usually some underlying rationale to do with the 
processor, the graphics capabilities or sometimes just because that's what 
they've decided.  In any case, it appears that your out of luck with that model 
of iPad.

Sorry.

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 6, 2017, at 06:54, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Hi all,

so after much effort, I've gotten my husband's iPad updated.  The iPad is a 4th 
gen.  But when I try to download Swift Playgrounds, I get an error message that 
it is not compatible with my device.  That doesn't seem possible, given that 
the 5th gens aren't out yet.  Anyone have any ideas what the problem might be?
TIA,
Donna

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More on Swift Playgrounds

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

so after much effort, I've gotten my husband's iPad updated.  The iPad is a 4th 
gen.  But when I try to download Swift Playgrounds, I get an error message that 
it is not compatible with my device.  That doesn't seem possible, given that 
the 5th gens aren't out yet.  Anyone have any ideas what the problem might be?
TIA,
Donna

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Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[lenron brown]

No way would I spend 10 Grand on a Mac book Pro. Only way I would buy
that if I had some type of major video production company. At least
you know it should be future proof bro.

On 6/6/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> Scott, your crazy dude,
>
>   Yeah I'd like one but still I'm not that crazy.
>
> When the pricing comes out check out the apple.co.nz site and price the
> fully spec'd iMac Pro.
> Yor 10K dollars is nothing compared to our pricing.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:43 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>
> BTW, what do you think of the iMac pro?
>
> Mine will probably cost over 10,000 but I’m going to get one.
>
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>
>> My IMac has a round circle type of cable in the middle of the machine.  Is
>> that not a Mac Safe?  I thought it was.
>>> On 5 Jun 2017, at 00:57, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Kawal,
>>>
>>> I'd be very surprised if your Imac had a magsafe power adaptor  as
>>> well,
>>>
>>> I work with iMacs from 2009 to 2016 models and all of them run from
>>> mains power with a single cable into the middle of the back of the
>>> machine, They have not to this point made an iMac with magsafe power
>>> connectivity
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>>> Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 3:33 AM
>>> To: Macvisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>>>
>>> I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.  My MacMini does
>>> not have a Mac Safe.  I got confused as my I Mac does.  I have plugged
>>> that MacMini in more than two years ago and have not really unplugged it
>>> much so I forgot.
>>>
>>> Kawal.
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:

 Hello,

 That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed
 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does
 the magsafe deliver mains voltage?

 As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.

 Regards,

 Gena

> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>
> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gena
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Scott.
>>>
>>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I
>>> convinced him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>>>
>>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch
>>> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the
>>> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is
>>> better than the second Gen.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar
>>> on it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the
>>> Mac Safe plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the
>>> Mac Safe plug.  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their
>>> Macsafe stuff.  I don't know when I will purchase another Apple
>>> computer as both my computers are going strong and as long as I can
>>> run the latest software on them then it's just fine for me.  However,
>>> one of these days we won't be able to run the latest software so then
>>> it will be time to buy another IMac and MacMini as I love both set
>>> ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram
>>> because I will be able to!
>>>
>>> Kawal.
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados 
 wrote:

 I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a
 pass where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest
 model laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for
 several weeks and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I
 thought I wouldn’t say but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as
 follows.
The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
 physical
 keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also
 fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri
 when you want to start or stop voice over.
The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it 
 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

I agree. I wonder why they didn't.  Given the ways that many of us now work 
with documents, pictures, etc on our phones, it would have made sense to put 
that app on the phone, too.
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 6:53 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm Wish they would have put this file app feature on the phones as
> well. I do love the idea of a 512 gb IPad though
> 
> On 6/6/17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> I agree about that.  But there's no way there's going to be a $10,000 MBP in
>> my future.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:22 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> 
>>> I feel the same way but I'd still like more ram and bigger ssd as well in
>>> my MBA.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:51 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>>> 
>>> Hmm, that'll do for me.  The MBP is a little rich for my blood.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 The NBA got a processor bump. That's it.
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people
> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS
>> 11.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world,
>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind
>> off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf
>>> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18
>>> cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty
>>> hot.  Granted the device starts a
>>> 
>> 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[lenron brown]

Hmmm Wish they would have put this file app feature on the phones as
well. I do love the idea of a 512 gb IPad though

On 6/6/17, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> I agree about that.  But there's no way there's going to be a $10,000 MBP in
> my future.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:22 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Donna,
>>
>> I feel the same way but I'd still like more ram and bigger ssd as well in
>> my MBA.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:51 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>>
>> Hmm, that'll do for me.  The MBP is a little rich for my blood.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>>
>>> The NBA got a processor bump. That's it.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

 So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people
 excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS
> 11.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world,
> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind
> off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf
>> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18
>> cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty
>> hot.  Granted the device starts a
>>
>
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>
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>>>
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> 

Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

I agree about that.  But there's no way there's going to be a $10,000 MBP in my 
future.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 3:22 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> I feel the same way but I'd still like more ram and bigger ssd as well in my 
> MBA.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:51 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> 
> Hmm, that'll do for me.  The MBP is a little rich for my blood.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> The NBA got a processor bump. That's it.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, 
 all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind 
 off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 
> cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty 
> hot.  Granted the device starts a
> 
 
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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Donna Goodin]

Hey Simon,

Well, happily I'll have some time to watch it today.  Looking forward to 
checking it out.  I agree, the Do Not Disturb Function seems like a good 
addition.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 1:56 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> I watched it mid day NZ time which was bout 5 hours after the actual release,
> 
> I did like the do not disturb fuction while driving  which means no one shoud 
> be able to use or activate their phone while they are driving their cars,
>  Apart from that I will eed to watch the IOS 11 section again  to just review.
> 
> The MBA gets an updated processor and that's about it,
> Yeah no shiney new MBA  which kind of p's me off
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:26 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
> 
> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people excited 
> about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the  mysteries of the world, 
>> all the challenges to  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off  
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
>>> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores 
>>> and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  
>>> Granted the device starts a
>>> 
>> 
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

 There is a new OS but nothing mentioned re health related apps for such things 
as CGM.

 Something I was wondering about also.

 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of gary-melconian
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 7:13 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

Any news on apple watch  OS  as far as any hints to what tim cook  is wearing 
as far as cgm and that sort of stuff goes. I am a type 2 diabetic and  rely on 
the  dexcom cgm and I was hoping for better advancements in this area with a 
watch sort of device that apple could come up to give the 21 million diabetics  
in the world a reason to get an apple watch. I am still interested to se if 
anything will be talked about that in the future.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple home pod 
speaker,

 But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm headphone jack 
or lightening connector for headphones,

 I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods


But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to buy 1 let alone 2 
although  I'm not sure we get them this year or next -Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo pair, 
if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with Siri. It's 
clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new speaker will be 
smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its output accordingly is 
interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the Mac pro, iMac Pro. The 
price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm disappointed about the mini not 
getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I think the new stuff for the iPad in 
iOS 11 has really good potential, although I will be curious to see how it all 
works with voiceover. I was excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth 
keyboard and that includes the number pad, only to be disappointed when I 
realized it has the same awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that 
Apple has been producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the 
keys. No thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works 
well for touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing 
in the world.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and
> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
> the device starts a
> 
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> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

 I feel the same way but I'd still like more ram and bigger ssd as well in my 
MBA.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

Hmm, that'll do for me.  The MBP is a little rich for my blood.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> The NBA got a processor bump. That's it.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people 
>> excited about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, 
>>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind 
>>> off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
 but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 
 cores and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty 
 hot.  Granted the device starts a
 
>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner 
>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[gary-melconian]

Any news on apple watch  OS  as far as any hints to what tim cook  is wearing 
as far as cgm and that sort of stuff goes. I am a type 2 diabetic and  rely on 
the  dexcom cgm and I was hoping for better advancements in this area with a 
watch sort of device that apple could come up to give the 21 million diabetics  
in the world a reason to get an apple watch. I am still interested to se if 
anything will be talked about that in the future.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple home pod 
speaker,

 But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm headphone jack 
or lightening connector for headphones,

 I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods


But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to buy 1 let alone 2 
although  I'm not sure we get them this year or next -Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo pair, 
if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with Siri. It's 
clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new speaker will be 
smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its output accordingly is 
interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the Mac pro, iMac Pro. The 
price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm disappointed about the mini not 
getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I think the new stuff for the iPad in 
iOS 11 has really good potential, although I will be curious to see how it all 
works with voiceover. I was excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth 
keyboard and that includes the number pad, only to be disappointed when I 
realized it has the same awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that 
Apple has been producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the 
keys. No thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works 
well for touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing 
in the world.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but 
> the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 
> 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted 
> the device starts a
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is 
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[gary-melconian]

Hat will the cost for these device be. Is the question.  If its going ot be 
laptop prices Ii would much rather geta laptop and call it a day as I could do 
more with my laptop tthen I could do with the I pad pro.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Simon Fogarty
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 12:03 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

Also interesting that the  iPad Pro 10 will come out with 256 & 512 MB storage 
models  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

Ah, I found the list of devices in regards to iOS 11.

Not Supported:
iPhone 5
iPhone 5c
iPad 3
iPad 4

Supported:
iPhone 7
iPhone 7 Plus
iPhone 6s
iPhone 6s Plus
iPhone 6
iPhone 6 Plus
iPhone SE
iPhone 5s
6th generation iPod Touch

iPad:
New 9.7-inch iPad
12.9-inch iPad Pro
9.7-inch iPad Pro
iPad Air 2
iPad Air
iPad mini 4
iPad mini 3
iPad mini 2
iPad 5

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 4:00 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
> The 5S will be eligible, amazingly. My old iPad mini 2 is apparently eligible 
> as well. So that's four years of use from a 5S or a mini too. Not too bad.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:27 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:
>>
>> What I phone do you have. Will there bbe issues with an I phone 6 or 7 
>> getting I os 11. What about an ipod or I pad that is a year or 2 old as 
>> well. just wondering.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
>> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 3:22 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>>
>>I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>>
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>>> starts a
>>>
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

Also interesting that the  iPad Pro 10 will come out with 256 & 512 MB storage 
models  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

Ah, I found the list of devices in regards to iOS 11.

Not Supported:
iPhone 5
iPhone 5c
iPad 3
iPad 4

Supported:
iPhone 7
iPhone 7 Plus
iPhone 6s
iPhone 6s Plus
iPhone 6
iPhone 6 Plus
iPhone SE
iPhone 5s
6th generation iPod Touch

iPad:
New 9.7-inch iPad
12.9-inch iPad Pro
9.7-inch iPad Pro
iPad Air 2
iPad Air
iPad mini 4
iPad mini 3
iPad mini 2
iPad 5

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 4:00 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
> The 5S will be eligible, amazingly. My old iPad mini 2 is apparently eligible 
> as well. So that's four years of use from a 5S or a mini too. Not too bad.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 3:27 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:
>>
>> What I phone do you have. Will there bbe issues with an I phone 6 or 7 
>> getting I os 11. What about an ipod or I pad that is a year or 2 old as 
>> well. just wondering.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
>> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 3:22 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>>
>>I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>>> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>>
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>>> starts a
>>>
>>
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

ET,

 Interesting that the iPad minis back to the 2 are stil going to be supported 
with IOS 11 
 The file  app si only on the pads not the phone if I'm not mistaken.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I have the 5. iPad 4th and older is out too.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/5/2017 3:27 PM, gary-melconian wrote:
> What I phone do you have. Will there bbe issues with an I phone 6 or 7 
> getting I os 11. What about an ipod or I pad that is a year or 2 old as well. 
> just wondering.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of E.T.
> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 3:22 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?
>
> I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>"God for you is where you sweep away all the
>mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>> starts a
>>
>

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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

 I watched it mid day NZ time which was bout 5 hours after the actual release,

 I did like the do not disturb fuction while driving  which means no one shoud 
be able to use or activate their phone while they are driving their cars,
  Apart from that I will eed to watch the IOS 11 section again  to just review.

 The MBA gets an updated processor and that's about it,
 Yeah no shiney new MBA  which kind of p's me off

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 10:26 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

So I missed the event.  I'll watch it eventually, but what are people excited 
about in IOS 11?  Also, any updates to the MBA?
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:22 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I will definitely get a new iPhone before September so I can run iOS 11.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the  mysteries of the world, 
> all the challenges to  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off  
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 6/5/2017 1:38 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>> 
>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf 
>> but the new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores 
>> and 128 GB of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  
>> Granted the device starts a
>> 
> 
> --
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

I still think the sonos speaker range is far ahead of the apple home pod 
speaker,

 But I do like the previous question of will it have the 3.5mm headphone jack 
or lightening connector for headphones,

 I think it will be more the Bluetooth for the earpods


But they are going to have to be bloody impressive for me to buy 1 let alone 2 
although  I'm not sure we get them this year or next 
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 9:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo pair, 
if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with Siri. It's 
clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new speaker will be 
smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its output accordingly is 
interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the Mac pro, iMac Pro. The 
price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm disappointed about the mini not 
getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I think the new stuff for the iPad in 
iOS 11 has really good potential, although I will be curious to see how it all 
works with voiceover. I was excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth 
keyboard and that includes the number pad, only to be disappointed when I 
realized it has the same awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that 
Apple has been producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the 
keys. No thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works 
well for touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing 
in the world.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts 
> a
> 
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

Early this morning my time 
 I think early the morning of the 5th USA time.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:48 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

Believe that was today I’m seeing lots of popups from it in the news.

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> When is the presentation for the WC thing on?
>> On 5 Jun 2017, at 21:44, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry with this damn new laptop I hit send on the light bar accidentally.
>> 
>> The Macs start at $5000 but boy do they sound nice.  What did others think 
>> of the presentation?
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
>>> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
>>> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device 
>>> starts a
>>> 
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RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

I did like the sound of the scanning feature to the notes app.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:45 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

Sorry with this damn new laptop I hit send on the light bar accidentally.

The Macs start at $5000 but boy do they sound nice.  What did others think of 
the presentation?

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:38 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So what does everyone think of the announcements.
> 
> Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the 
> new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of 
> RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts 
> a
> 
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RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

Scott, your crazy dude,

  Yeah I'd like one but still I'm not that crazy.

When the pricing comes out check out the apple.co.nz site and price the fully 
spec'd iMac Pro.
Yor 10K dollars is nothing compared to our pricing.


 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:43 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

BTW, what do you think of the iMac pro?

Mine will probably cost over 10,000 but I’m going to get one.

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> My IMac has a round circle type of cable in the middle of the machine.  Is 
> that not a Mac Safe?  I thought it was.
>> On 5 Jun 2017, at 00:57, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kawal,
>> 
>> I'd be very surprised if your Imac had a magsafe power adaptor  as 
>> well,
>> 
>> I work with iMacs from 2009 to 2016 models and all of them run from 
>> mains power with a single cable into the middle of the back of the 
>> machine, They have not to this point made an iMac with magsafe power 
>> connectivity
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
>> Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 3:33 AM
>> To: Macvisionaries 
>> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
>> 
>> I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.  My MacMini does not 
>> have a Mac Safe.  I got confused as my I Mac does.  I have plugged that 
>> MacMini in more than two years ago and have not really unplugged it much so 
>> I forgot.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 
>>> 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the 
>>> magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>> 
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Gena
>>> 
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gena
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott.
>> 
>> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
>> him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
>> 
>> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
>> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
>> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
>> better than the second Gen.
>> 
>> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on 
>> it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe 
>> plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug. 
>>  I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I 
>> don't know when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my 
>> computers are going strong and as long as I can run the latest software 
>> on them then it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't 
>> be able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy 
>> another IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do that, 
>> I'll max out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
>> 
>> Kawal. 
>>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
>>> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
>>> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t 
>>> say but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>> The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of 
>>> physical keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and 
>>> also fires when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting 
>>> Siri when you want to start or stop voice over.
>>> The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it 
>>> does on the Mac proper.
>>> The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses 
>>> USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports 
>>> on all the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi,
No it isn't mag safe,

 Infact if you pull it out or should I say to pull it out you have to give it a 
pretty tough pull and it's a three pin socket in the back such as used on the 
back of a windows tower PC 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:41 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

My IMac has a round circle type of cable in the middle of the machine.  Is that 
not a Mac Safe?  I thought it was.
> On 5 Jun 2017, at 00:57, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kawal,
> 
> I'd be very surprised if your Imac had a magsafe power adaptor  as 
> well,
> 
> I work with iMacs from 2009 to 2016 models and all of them run from 
> mains power with a single cable into the middle of the back of the 
> machine, They have not to this point made an iMac with magsafe power 
> connectivity
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
> Sent: Monday, 5 June 2017 3:33 AM
> To: Macvisionaries 
> Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops
> 
> I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.  My MacMini does not 
> have a Mac Safe.  I got confused as my I Mac does.  I have plugged that 
> MacMini in more than two years ago and have not really unplugged it much so I 
> forgot.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. It is fed 
>> 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped externally. Or does the 
>> magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>> 
>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Gena
>> 
>>> On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My MacMini is a 2014 model.
 On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
 
 Regards,
 
 Gena
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 18:25, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott.
> 
> A few months ago I went to the Apple store with my father as I convinced 
> him to purchase the 7 Plus I phone which he did.
> 
> After that was done, I went to look at the most expensive Apple watch 
> which i liked but wasn't going to spend that kind of money to get the 
> Apple watch but may get an apple watch next time if the third Gen is 
> better than the second Gen.
> 
> Anyway, I went to have a look at the Macbook Air with the touch bar on 
> it.  I thought it was a bit crap as I knew it wouldn't have the Mac Safe 
> plug on it.  I love my I Mac and MacMini as both have the Mac Safe plug.  
> I hate it that Apple seem to be getting rid of their Macsafe stuff.  I 
> don't know when I will purchase another Apple computer as both my 
> computers are going strong and as long as I can run the latest software 
> on them then it's just fine for me.  However, one of these days we won't 
> be able to run the latest software so then it will be time to buy another 
> IMac and MacMini as I love both set ups!  When ever I do that, I'll max 
> out the memory and Gig of ram because I will be able to!
> 
> Kawal. 
>> On 3 Jun 2017, at 12:35, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I hate to say this about apple but I’m not going to give someone a pass 
>> where it’s not deserved either.  I’ve been using a 2016 latest model 
>> laptop with the touch bar and finger print censor now for several weeks 
>> and I need to say, I hate it.  That’s something I thought I wouldn’t say 
>> but the fact is I do.  Reasons are as follows.
>>  The touch bar triggers when your fingers are on the row of physical 
>> keys below.  The finger print censor also triggers Siri and also fires 
>> when you touch the keys below.  You also end up starting Siri when you 
>> want to start or stop voice over.
>>  The light bar doesn’t work the same in virtual machines as it does on 
>> the Mac proper.
>>  The ports are a joke.  Everything is USB-C which renders all my 
>> previous adapters and connectors useless.  The power cable now uses 
>> USB-C instead of mag safe (which I like better).  The lightning ports on 
>> all the phones and other devices feel just like USB-C with a slight size 
>> difference so I’m for ever using the wrong cable on the wrong port.  All 
>> your included cables with your devices are USB 3.0 the older standard 
>> and don’t fit in the USB-C port, you can get adapters but they aren’t 
>> included.
>>  While I like the 

RE: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah can't say I was overly impressed,
Great stuff if your into video creation / editing or virtual reality creation 
but really nothing exciting 
Oh waw safari has a popup blocker, Hmmm, yes IE has had that for years / 
versions,
So has firefox and google chrome,
The files app / feature of the iPad is of interest  and the home speaker to me 
is just an apple version of my sonos speakers but on a lesser scale,
 I don't always have apple music signed up to but do use spotify and my itunes 
music library 
 
As for the hardware, well the notebooks are just an increase in processor type 
/ quality up to the cabielake, 
Still I think the notebooks are lacking in features.

 The new updates to the iMac sound of interest but as Scott you have said,
Holy bad ass batman!

 The new iMac Pro range, dude give me a fully spec'ed  out iMac Pro,
 Althoughyou guys don't have to pay our prices,

 Although I don't need a 5K screen res.

And I would like to see a new iPad Mini I'd like an iPad mini Pro,  From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 8:38 AM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

So what does everyone think of the announcements.

Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the new 
iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB of RAM as 
well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device starts a

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Re: So what do we think of the WWDC new hardware?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Mary, let me correct you on a few things here. Alexa has been in development 
for quite a few years and I find her to be very smart. Also, skills don't rely 
totally on the Alexa app. If you know what skill you want to enable, you can 
ask Alexa to enable it for you, thus not having to use the app so much.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Jun 5, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Well, to be interesting, this speaker is going to have to sound a whole hell 
> of a lot better than anything Amazon has produced. That doesn't sound all 
> that great. I'm looking at this as a sort of a replacement for a regular 
> stereo system in a room that's not too large. $700 were really nice stereo 
> pair of bookshelf speakers isn't all that awful. Think about the higher and 
> bookshelf speakers like BMW. Or other high-end makers of speakers. If these 
> are in that class, then that's a whole different thing than what you get from 
> something like the echo, which sells for about half the price I guess, but 
> isn't all that special. It's also not all that smart, and the skills are, in 
> my opinion, a pain in the butt, because they are very reliant on the Alexa 
> app, plus you have to actually find them. It's not intuitive. So Apple could 
> do something good. But will they?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2017, at 2:50 PM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> I am not impressed with this speaker. Google home and echo are both
>> already pretty nice and they are going for being smart. The Home pod
>> seems to be geared towards music. Oh did I forget it's priced more
>> than I am willing to pay. $350 wow really apple. Now the new mac Pro
>> seems to be pretty powerful. I don't need anything that pricy but if I
>> had the cash I would maybe consider. Duel booting one of those babies
>> and calling it a day. Sad times about the keyboard though. I am not a
>> fan of the new keyboards.
>> 
>>> On 6/5/17, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> I think the new home speaker could be interesting, especially as a stereo
>>> pair, if the sound is really good, and if Apple gets his act together with
>>> Siri. It's clearly way behind google at this point. The idea that this new
>>> speaker will be smart enough to know where it is in a room and adjust its
>>> output accordingly is interesting. I am not the least bit interested in the
>>> Mac pro, iMac Pro. The price is absurd for anything I would want. I'm
>>> disappointed about the mini not getting refreshed, but not surprised. And I
>>> think the new stuff for the iPad in iOS 11 has really good potential,
>>> although I will be curious to see how it all works with voiceover. I was
>>> excited about the announcement of a new Bluetooth keyboard and that includes
>>> the number pad, only to be disappointed when I realized it has the same
>>> awful feel as all of the new notebook keyboards that Apple has been
>>> producing. No key travel to speak up and no spacing between the keys. No
>>> thank you. Why oh why can't they make a keyboard that really works well for
>>> touch typist? That is after all, who does most of the serious typing in the
>>> world.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott Granados 
 wrote:
 
 So what does everyone think of the announcements.
 
 Personally, I’m going to leave the home speaker on the store shelf but the
 new iMac Pro is calling my name.  Being able to have 18 cores and 128 GB
 of RAM as well s 16 GB of video memory is pretty hot.  Granted the device
 starts a
 
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 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
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>>> 
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>>> 

RE: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi ET,

 That's what I did to a 2012 MBP for my neace,

 I used the spindle drive in a different machine I had.

 As for using SSD for time machine backups 
I personally wouldn't as they will ware out quicker with the reading / writing 
A spindle drive although slower would be a better option for backups.
If you wanted to be geeky, then you could find a USB C or thunderbolt 3 drive 
case and put an SSD in it and use it as a primary hard drive or clone of your 
laptops hard drive 



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2017 3:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

Chris,
I replaced the spinning drive with an SSD, much faster. I put the old drive 
into an OWC USB enclosure, and may use it as a backup.

Currently I use some WD My Passport externals for backups, keeping Time 
Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner on separate drives. As funds come in, I may look 
at using external SSD drives. Do you reckon that an SSD is more reliable that I 
could use one large drive and partition it?

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/4/2017 8:27 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> To figure out exactly which drive fits which computer they have an 
> online upgrade matching page here:
>
> https://eshop.macsales.com/upgrades/
>
> So they would need your exact model identifier, such as MacBookPro 
> 12,1, in About This Mac then System Report. The one I was citing is here:
>
> https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/Y3SSD6E960/
>
> It replaces the 2.5" spinning disk drive with an SSD of a similar shape.
>
> CB
>
> On 6/4/17 11:16 PM, lenron brown wrote:
>> Is this the drive for the 2015 and 2014 MBP, and would you happen to 
>> have a link to it? 1 tb for 380 is not so bad considering the fact 
>> that this drive on some places is close to $900.
>>
>> On 6/4/17, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>>> My wife upgraded her MacBook from a 500GB regular drive to a 1TB 
>>> SSD. I got the Other World Computing bundle which included the 
>>> special screwdrivers to take her laptop apart, a USB external drive 
>>> case to put her old drive in and the new 1TB SSD. That kit is 
>>> currently $389. I probably could have found the raw drive and such 
>>> cheaper elsewhere but I knew the OWC set would work.
>>>
>>> CB
>>>
>>> On 6/4/17 5:34 PM, gary-melconian wrote:
 Where are you getting that  price tag  for ssd drives . I just 
 upgrade  a machine with a ssd 512 for $200 .it was one of the brand 
 nname ones. I picked it up off of amazon.

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lenron brown
 Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 12:11 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: I'm really growing to hate this years crop of laptops

 Yeah it is pretty cool to see yall here as well. I hope this 
 computer can last because there is no way I want or can really 
 upgrade to another. I mean it's bad enough upgrading a ssd is going 
 to cost me almost 300 for a
 256 or 500 dollars for the 512. That doesn't even include if I have 
 to get someone else to do it. I mean I am sure I could get it done 
 for nothing but that upgrade is pretty much the price for building 
 a computer.
 Hope to
 see some nice stuff from wwdc though.

 On 6/4/17, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> The mac mini uses a regular plug, it's not magsafe, at least it 
> wasn't a few months ago when I got a new one.
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>
>> I'm confused. When did the Mini get MagSafe? It's a tower, not a 
>> laptop. A quick search shows no MagSafe-equipped Mini models.
>>
>> --
>> Alex Hall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 06:59, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> That’s interesting. My 2012 model has a figure of 8 lead. i.e. 
>>> It is fed 240V whereas, I’m guessing the voltage is dropped 
>>> externally. Or does the magsafe deliver mains voltage?
>>>
>>> As you suggest the Mini is a great little machine.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gena
>>>
 On 4 Jun 2017, at 11:43, Kawal Gucukoglu 
 wrote:

 My MacMini is a 2014 model.
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 23:30, Georgina Joyce  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What year Mac Mini has a magsafe power connection?
>
> Regards,