RE: beta testers?

[Simon A Fogarty]

Cheers for the clarification.

I’ll try and get in to it, but you guys are on the other side of the planet,
Time zones might be an issue to my sleep patterns

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Kliph Senior
Sent: Monday, 29 June 2020 3:13 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beta testers?

In general, any beta you use qualifies.  For 14 and Big Sur, developer beta’s 
but for iOS 13 you can discuss in the group any time
Are you testing an apple beta?  want to discuss bugs with other testers?  Then 
come join a friendly, helpful, laid back community where we can squash these 
bugs together, and report them to apple. Subscribe here
public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io
Because of the non disclosure agreement, I have to say if your not a beta 
tester, please don’t join the group.



On Jun 28, 2020, at 3:53 AM, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Cliff

Is this for IOS / iPadOs 14 or in general?

As yet I’m still running IOS 13 PB and don’t expect that to change until Appple 
drop the PB in July.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Kliph Senior
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 7:25 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: beta testers?

If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  Contact 
me at
sturi...@icloud.com
Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.


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Re: beta testers?

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

If anyone has any feedback about the new VoiceOver recognition features, please 
let me know how it goes.
Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com
Https://devinprater.github.io

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:32 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately the chat is in the middle of the night my time but I wish to 
> talk to anyone off list obviously that is running a test version of the new 
> Mac operating system.
> I'm deciding if I should test or not and any major problems
> I would be grateful for any assistance.
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2020, at 1:11 am, Kliph Senior > > wrote:
>> 
>> Yes donna, this group has been active for the last 3 years.  I only use 
>> beta’s now because they are so stable.  The group info is below.  Also for 
>> anyone running the dev beta and wants to chat about it just email me at 
>> sturi...@icloud.com  I will be hosting a zoom 
>> call tomorrow
>> Are you testing an apple beta?  want to discuss bugs with other testers?  
>> Then come join a friendly, helpful, laid back community where we can squash 
>> these bugs together, and report them to apple. Subscribe here
>> public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> Because of the non disclosure agreement, I have to say if your not a beta 
>> tester, please don’t join the group.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey Kliph,
>>> 
>>> I was just thinking about installing the beta. Is that group still live?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Kliph Senior >>> > wrote:
 
 I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14
 
 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior  > wrote:
> 
> If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  
> Contact me at
> sturi...@icloud.com 
> Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
> 
> 
 
 
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Firefox on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

I went ahead and gave the newest firefox, version 77 a try. Yes, it is 
definitely better than previous versions, voiceover is quite responsive with 
it. Is it ready to be used as someone's primary browser, not yet, there are 
still some issues with the voiceover cursor getting stuck and you have to use 
the tab key to get out of the section you are stuck in. Is it worth trying and 
perhaps offering some feedback to Mozilla? Yes, absolutely, let's hope this 
continues to improve. If you have used safari and Chrome, you will notice that 
there are slight differences in how each browser presents information to 
voiceover, for example, chrome points out the start and end of lists in some 
places that safari doesn't. Microsoft Edge presents things exactly the same way 
that Chrome does since they use the same code. Firefox has its own unique way 
of presenting things, again, I would suggest giving it a try and offering some 
feedback, it would be awesome if Firefox's voiceover support could become as 
good as Safari, Chrome and Edge.

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Re: zoom presentation mode

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I've never had it act like you're explaining.  I've mostly just presented 
TextEdit agenda documents or other non-media style sharing.  I have not yet 
presented Keynote or other media kinds of presentations.  While attempting to 
show my sighted wife or kids something in iMovie, I have had something similar 
happen and such when VO was on.  In these cases, I had to turn VO off and the 
screen stopped being squirly.  So, basically, I'm not sure why Zoom would be 
behaving this way for you even with VO off.  Maybe try making sure that VO is 
off before you start the share of the screen.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 28, 2020, at 15:58, Yuma Decaux  wrote:

Hi All,

I wanted to ask if anyone here knows how to use the screen sharing mode and 
present slides from keynote or other applications. I've been having 
difficulties doing this, as it seems the screen just looks black on the other 
side when I have voice over on. I did turn screen curtain off and set the 
brightness appropriately.

I've got several upcoming presentations and would like to do them on screen not 
through the webcam.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Have a great week 

Yuma 

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zoom presentation mode

[Yuma Decaux]

Hi All,

I wanted to ask if anyone here knows how to use the screen sharing mode and 
present slides from keynote or other applications. I've been having 
difficulties doing this, as it seems the screen just looks black on the other 
side when I have voice over on. I did turn screen curtain off and set the 
brightness appropriately.

I've got several upcoming presentations and would like to do them on screen not 
through the webcam.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Have a great week 

Yuma 

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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Petrus Tuerlings]

Yes I do, I just find it easier to type on but then I’m unusual in that respect.

> On 28/06/2020, at 21:01, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Petrus,
>  
> You also find the butterfly keyboard ok as well?
>  
> From:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
> Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 10:03 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>  
> Yes, I like my MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar. Although the new ones with the 
> physical escape button would be an improvement. It is very easy too 
> accidentally touch the bar and VoiceOver will say escape. Using VoiceOver 
> isn’t so bad as we need to double tap to activate it but I’ve heard that 
> sighted users are accidentally touching the escape key quite a lot. I think 
> that’s why they changed it back to a button.
> 
> 
> On 27/06/2020, at 15:37, Simon A Fogarty  > wrote:
>  
> Hi ET,
> 
> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
> pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  > 
> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
>I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts 
> at $1799.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as 
> I can get.
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
> 
>   
> >
>  
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>  
> campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
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Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[John Panarese]

 It is working much better than before. It’s a lot snappier and is, to me, 
quite usable now.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Jun 28, 2020, at 5:14 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Nice, please try some more sites when you can and keep us posted, it would be 
> awesome if firefox became as accessible on the mac as it is on Windows.
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
>> 
>> I just downloaded Firefox 77 and Firefox 79 nightly on my system, and they 
>> have indeed made significant strides in interacting with VoiceOver. I only 
>> had a chance to review two or three sites. Sometimes, voiceOver would say 
>> unknown button, but if I moved forward and back it could then read the label 
>> for the button. I did not look at any advanced sites that use lots of 
>> JavaScript and have to manage focus, but first impressions were that this is 
>> something worth looking into. 
>> 
>>  Best wishes,
>> 
>> Jonathan Cohn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[Mike Arrigo]

Nice, please try some more sites when you can and keep us posted, it would be 
awesome if firefox became as accessible on the mac as it is on Windows.

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I just downloaded Firefox 77 and Firefox 79 nightly on my system, and they 
> have indeed made significant strides in interacting with VoiceOver. I only 
> had a chance to review two or three sites. Sometimes, voiceOver would say 
> unknown button, but if I moved forward and back it could then read the label 
> for the button. I did not look at any advanced sites that use lots of 
> JavaScript and have to manage focus, but first impressions were that this is 
> something worth looking into. 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Mike Arrigo]

If you like the compact version, you can download a better quality version of 
the voice if you wish.

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I am not a native inglish speaker but really like aron compact for reading 
> things on the internet.
> That’s if i am lazy and don’t wanna poke with my braille display.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev Leo Bado :
>> 
>> I find neural voices far more natural when reading large articles. For me 
>> everything is better, intonation, in-flexion, naturalness, and 
>> pronunciation. Objectively speaking, these characteristics are very 
>> important for me since I'm not a native English speaker, but I understand 
>> that they might not make much of a difference for a native English speaker. 
>> Well, what can I say? for the most part, this is a subjective matter 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>>Leo
>> 
>> On 6/27/2020 12:47 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when 
>>> using Edge on a Mac??
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado 
>>> 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; however, 
>>> I was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but 
>>> sadly, they don't... and for me this feature it's very important since I 
>>> usually read articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are working 
>>> on the latest release, but if someone gives it a try, let us know.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>>Leo
>>> On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>> 
 I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very 
 well. You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since 
 voiceover reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but 
 there are some differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make 
 Edge accessible or if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, 
 either way, we now have another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a 
 good thing. 
 
 
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https:

free conference call

[Lorie McCloud]

has anybody here had experience with the Free Conference Call app? I tried the 
Mac app and it was completely inaccessible. so I installed the iPhone app. it 
looked like it might work but when I put in the meeting numbers it said the 
meeting couldn't be found. I know the numbers were correct. suggestions?

thanks.
Lorie

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Re: Vmware tools for linux.

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

If your distro packages it, install open-vm-tools. These are VMWare’s guest 
tools ported to particular distributions. VMware encourages this.

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Re: Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[Michael Marshall]

This is very encouraging.
I hope they continue to work at this because it would be always nice to have 
another browser option.


> On 29 Jun 2020, at 4:37 am, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I just downloaded Firefox 77 and Firefox 79 nightly on my system, and they 
> have indeed made significant strides in interacting with VoiceOver. I only 
> had a chance to review two or three sites. Sometimes, voiceOver would say 
> unknown button, but if I moved forward and back it could then read the label 
> for the button. I did not look at any advanced sites that use lots of 
> JavaScript and have to manage focus, but first impressions were that this is 
> something worth looking into. 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Why the Mac's migration to Apple Silicon is bigger than ARM | Appleinsider

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

I don’t take AppleInsider very seriously. I mean, they’re shameless apologists, 
which makes it very hard to tell how much is Apple worship and how much 
informed opinion. Much more important: they’ve censored some of my more sweary 
comments in the past, and there’s just no forgiving that. ;-)

To be honest, I think the ARM (oops, sorry, can’t use that word, I mean “Apple 
Silicon”) transition is much more about business than it is about technology. 
Intel chips are high margin, and Apple goes after margin like a corporate 
lawyer goes after fees. Right now, you can boot unsigned operating systems, so 
you can theoretically run apps in perpetuity for any given operating system 
version, even if it is not signed by Apple. But for how long? Remember, Apple 
now has complete control over the stack, so you no longer have the choice of 
just leaving macOS. This gives them enormous leverage in future, if they ever 
choose to stop people running unsigned operating systems or apps. It doesn’t 
really bear thinking about. More important, though: the "Apple Silicon” Macs 
pave the way for a complete transition to iOS, by removing all but the most 
trivial of impediments for iOS app developers of being able to build and deploy 
those apps, without any thought given to Mac user experience. It does not fill 
me with good cheer, especially if the present-day “Catalyst” apps are any guide 
to what that would feel like. Yes, people will laugh now, but I predict a 
future in which the iPad Pro can dual-boot between iOS and macOS—the latter of 
which will uniquely support Cocoa/AppKit, for those “few specialised apps” that 
Mac users need. B ...

To the present quandary of Apple Silicon vs Intel and BootCamp, in my mind the 
future is a stark choice between running iPhone apps, and running multiple 
operating systems that includes Microsoft Windows. I can already run iPhone 
apps, on my iPhone. Windows is, unfortunately, a big part of the case for the 
Mac, even though I run it very, very rarely. Hence, it seems to me that if I am 
to have the best of all possible worlds, the right thing for me to do is to lap 
up the last of the Intel Macs, when they become available. They have a future 
for as long as Apple supports them with macOS, and thereafter, running Windows 
or Linux. BootCamp is _not available_ on Apple Silicon, and the Linux virtual 
machine being demonstrated was an ARMv8 Debian installation. Unless Microsoft 
announces OEM partnership with Apple to run Windows on Macs either directly or 
in a VM, there will be no Windows, and even if there were, it would not contain 
the same ecosystem of applications that we all know and love, without a 
terrible performance cost. Face it, Apple Silicon and Windows are just not 
likely.

I’ve been on the fence for the last 4-5 years about moving back to Windows on a 
full-time basis. It doesn’t happen, only because Apple hardware is insurance 
against losing access to macOS while still having access to Windows when it’s 
needed. When that no longer becomes a possibility, the balance of imperatives, 
especially the accessibility imperative, may favour Windows full-time. I don’t 
look forward to it; i think macOS, and especially AppKit apps, provide, when 
available, a simply superior experience to Windows. But when the option is no 
longer available, it no longer becomes a concern. When you purchase new 
hardware, you’ll have to choose which is more important. Who can honestly say 
that the accessibility provided by Windows, and especially in professional 
environments, is not? And who can honestly doubt that much of what makes 
Windows appealing is a consequence of Apple’s neglect of macOS as a platform in 
matters, especially, of accessibility?

On 25 Jun 2020, at 13:35, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:
> One of the glories of homebrew apps on Mac hardware is that you can
> still send output to your various media devices.

Sorry Janina, what does this mean? Which media devices?

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: downloading with Safari on a Mac

[Jonathan Cohn]

What I did a long time ago…

1. Bring up the contextual menu on the Downloads folder and click "Folder 
Actions Setup …"
2.  After you get to the dialog of scripts (you might need to click add button) 
Add the script
"table Row 1 of 26 add - new item alert.scpt 
This will create a dialog anytime something is added to the downloads folder 
and say something like click yes to open the folder. 
The only problem with this when using the downloads folder is that you will 
usually get two dialogs from Safari downloads 1 for the incomplete version that 
has an extension of .download and one for the completed download.
 "
Best wishes,
If there is enough interest, I could modify the script to exclude download 
files.

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 25, 2020, at 10:52 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> on my Mac it's a click.
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2020, at 4:14 AM, trevor scott > > wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve never heard a bleep and when else would you look to see if your 
>> download has finished except when your downloading?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jun 2020, at 09:42, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That option will only work if there is a download in progress.  Anyway when 
>>> you do get a download then you hear a small bleep of some kind.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
 On 25 Jun 2020, at 04:31, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
 wrote:
 
   When I download a file in Safari and know it is going to take time, I do 
 the cmd-option-l and VO-left (I think its left) to the download table and 
 intaract with it. VO-shift-down arrow. Interact again with the download in 
 progress. Thie table can have multiple downloads going such as TV shows or 
 movies. I don't use the Finder for this.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/24/2020 8:19 PM, Lorie McCloud wrote:
> I apparently don't know anything about this.I thought it was the 
> downloads folder in finder we were talking about. I found downloads in 
> the toolbar but it says: "no title to interact" when I try. can you tell 
> me how to interact with the downloads table and manage that way?
> thanks.
> Lorie
>> On Jun 24, 2020, at 6:58 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>>   It's a simple thing to open the download manager and interact with the 
>> table to monitor downloads.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/24/2020 4:38 PM, Lorie McCloud wrote:
>>> I just quite that one, started it again and interacted with the 
>>> download as soon as I started it. this time I did get the progress 
>>> indicator.
 On Jun 24, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn >>> > wrote:
 
 Good evening,
 Did you check in the privacy and security and see what other site 
 you’re trying to download from is allowing downloads? When Catalina 
 came out last year, the safari that came out at the same time requires 
 you to approve downloads from domains.
 Good luck!
 Jonathan Sorry for the dictation errors, but I believe you’ll be able 
 to understand what I’m trying to say.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jun 24, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Lorie McCloud  > wrote:
> 
> I'm still running Mojave. I'm downloading a file and I think it may 
> have gotten stuck so I press command-option-l to check the status and 
> I get things like "zoom out" and "make text smaller". seems like it 
> might be a focus problem. how can I get it to show me what I want to 
> see?
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
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Thanks for help with moving to Dock

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi all,

When I posted my last messages, I was kind of distracted because I was trying 
to monitor more things than my brain could hold. :)  so apologies if they 
seemed a bit short.

I wanted to say a more proper thanks to all of you for your input and 
suggestions. I figured out that the reason that the container command didn't 
work yesterday was because I was using a different command. I read that the 
command was dots- 4-7 chord. That did not work for me, but Jonathan's 
suggestion of dot 6-chord worked quite well with containers in the rotor.
Cheers,
Donna

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Firefox on the Mac somewhat works now.

[Jonathan Cohn]

I just downloaded Firefox 77 and Firefox 79 nightly on my system, and they have 
indeed made significant strides in interacting with VoiceOver. I only had a 
chance to review two or three sites. Sometimes, voiceOver would say unknown 
button, but if I moved forward and back it could then read the label for the 
button. I did not look at any advanced sites that use lots of JavaScript and 
have to manage focus, but first impressions were that this is something worth 
looking into. 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

I thought you could. You can on the Mac, but I don't see a way to do it in IOS.
Cheers,
Donna  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:25 PM, alia robinson  wrote:
> 
> can’t you map a key for moving to mail? I did that once.
> 
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:38 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to decide 
> what is more important, keeping the dock in its current configuration or 
> changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail when using a braille 
> display.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>    Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
 On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
>>> command.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
> wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
 Its the right command key though.
 /A
 
> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
> 
> Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> No, I don't either.
>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
>> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
>> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard 
>> with iOS.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see 
>>> ay options for the dock in the assignment list.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s 
 not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems 
 like there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder 
 if you can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around 
 with that.
 Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item 
> on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>> Best,
>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it’s chord d…
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you 
 directly to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 
 chord will take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you 
 still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm 
 hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
 the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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 list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
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Re: beta testers?

[Michael Marshall]

Unfortunately the chat is in the middle of the night my time but I wish to talk 
to anyone off list obviously that is running a test version of the new Mac 
operating system.
I'm deciding if I should test or not and any major problems
I would be grateful for any assistance.

> On 29 Jun 2020, at 1:11 am, Kliph Senior  wrote:
> 
> Yes donna, this group has been active for the last 3 years.  I only use 
> beta’s now because they are so stable.  The group info is below.  Also for 
> anyone running the dev beta and wants to chat about it just email me at 
> sturi...@icloud.com  I will be hosting a zoom 
> call tomorrow
> Are you testing an apple beta?  want to discuss bugs with other testers?  
> Then come join a friendly, helpful, laid back community where we can squash 
> these bugs together, and report them to apple. Subscribe here
> public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> Because of the non disclosure agreement, I have to say if your not a beta 
> tester, please don’t join the group.
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Kliph,
>> 
>> I was just thinking about installing the beta. Is that group still live?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Kliph Senior >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior >>> > wrote:
 
 If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  
 Contact me at
 sturi...@icloud.com 
 Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
 
 
>>> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, that did work. Nice to have  options.
Cheers,
Donna


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> When I put containers in my rotor and then switched over to them, space with 
> dots 6 did indeed move me to the beginning of my dock.
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:38 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to decide 
>> what is more important, keeping the dock in its current configuration or 
>> changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail when using a braille 
>> display.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a 
 qwerty command.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 Sent from my iPad
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
> Its the right command key though.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
>> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
>> 
>> Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> No, I don't either.
>>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
>>> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
>>> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard 
>>> with iOS.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 
 items on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did 
 not see ay options for the dock in the assignment list.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s 
> not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems 
> like there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder 
> if you can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around 
> with that.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last 
>> item on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>  wrote:
 
 I think it’s chord d…
 
 Cait
 
 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you 
> directly to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 
> chord will take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you 
> still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm 
> hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item 
> in the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, 
> please co

Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Matthew Whitaker]

Yeah that’s really cool features for that app. :-)



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I use overcast on a regular basis, and I know that they have a web 
> interface, but not sure about a Mac app. There are two things I really like 
> about overcast.
> 1. I have it configured so that pressing next will skip ahead 30 seconds, and 
> not to the next track. In most cases, this allows me to skip advertisements.
> 2) The smart speed does really reduce time for those podcasters that don't 
> talk efficiently.
> 
> Another feature that I have really not used much is the ability to indicate 
> the size of footers and trailers in an episode, so you can skip past tem.
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Matthew Whitaker 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have never tried it before on iOS and on the mac.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:49 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’d use Downcast because it has a Mac app, but it has (had?) a distressing 
>>> habit of destroying its synchronisation state database on a fairly regular 
>>> basis. How are things nowadays with that app. Are there really any other 
>>> choices for users of both iOS and macOS, besides Apple Podcasts and iTunes? 
>>> Must I really consent to simply giving up hope of using a desktop podcasts 
>>> app?
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sabahattin
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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c

Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Great job. :)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/28/2020 11:01 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
When I put containers in my rotor and then switched over to them, space 
with dots 6 did indeed move me to the beginning of my dock.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:38 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to 
decide what is more important, keeping the dock in its current 
configuration or changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail 
when using a braille display.

Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


   Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a 
qwerty command.

Cheers,
Donna
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg 
mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>> wrote:


Hi!
Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
Its the right command key though.
/A

27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>:


An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.


Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
No, I don't either.
So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue 
a keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just 
trying to minimize all the futzing around you have to do when 
using a keyboard with iOS.

Cheers,
Donna
On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 
4/5 items on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. 
:) I did not see ay options for the dock in the assignment list.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. 
It’s not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. 
But it seems like there should be a braille command for moving 
the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a custom command. 
Maybe I’ll play around with that.

Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the 
last item on the screen so use space 4-5-6.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna
On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
> wrote:


I think it’s chord d…

Cait


On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via 
MacVisionaries > wrote:


Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you 
directly to the dock on a braille display? I know the 
dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of the screen, 
but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the 
top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move 
directly to the first item in the dock.  Thanks in advance 
for any help.

Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

[alia robinson]

can’t you map a key for moving to mail? I did that once.

On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:38 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to decide 
what is more important, keeping the dock in its current configuration or 
changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail when using a braille display.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
>> command.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> Sent from my iPad
 On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
>>> Its the right command key though.
>>> /A
>>> 
 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 :
 
 An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands 
 to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
 
 Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> No, I don't either.
> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with 
> iOS.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay 
>> options for the dock in the assignment list.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not 
>>> a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like 
>>> there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you 
>>> can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item 
 on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
> Best,
> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think it’s chord d…
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly 
>>> to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will 
>>> take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to 
>>> scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's 
>>> some way to just move directly to the first item in the dock.  
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on 
>>> the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Jonathan Cohn]

I use overcast on a regular basis, and I know that they have a web interface, 
but not sure about a Mac app. There are two things I really like about overcast.
1. I have it configured so that pressing next will skip ahead 30 seconds, and 
not to the next track. In most cases, this allows me to skip advertisements.
2) The smart speed does really reduce time for those podcasters that don't talk 
efficiently.

Another feature that I have really not used much is the ability to indicate the 
size of footers and trailers in an episode, so you can skip past tem.
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 28, 2020, at 2:09 PM, Matthew Whitaker 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have never tried it before on iOS and on the mac.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:49 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’d use Downcast because it has a Mac app, but it has (had?) a distressing 
>> habit of destroying its synchronisation state database on a fairly regular 
>> basis. How are things nowadays with that app. Are there really any other 
>> choices for users of both iOS and macOS, besides Apple Podcasts and iTunes? 
>> Must I really consent to simply giving up hope of using a desktop podcasts 
>> app?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Doing that as I type.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:47 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    It won't take you long at all to test this and see.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/28/2020 10:38 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to decide 
>> what is more important, keeping the dock in its current configuration or 
>> changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail when using a braille 
>> display.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> Sent from my iPad
 On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a 
 qwerty command.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 Sent from my iPad
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
> Its the right command key though.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>>  An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
>> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
>> 
>>  Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> No, I don't either.
>>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
>>> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
>>> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard 
>>> with iOS.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
  Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 
 items on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did 
 not see ay options for the dock in the assignment list.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s 
> not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems 
> like there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder 
> if you can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around 
> with that.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last 
>> item on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>  wrote:
 
 I think it’s chord d…
 
 Cait
 
 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you 
> directly to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 
> chord will take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you 
> still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm 
> hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item 
> in the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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> please contact the owners or moderators d

Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Leo Bado]

Hi Karen,

Sadly, the last time I tried out edge chromium on my Mac, these neural 
voices didn’t show up in the list to pick a voice when reading aloud. 
So, I am assuming they are not available yet for mac users. Personally, 
in my windows PC I always read articles on the NY times using the male 
American voice, which I really like.


As for the matter of one voice for task or program, I’m totally on board 
with your opinion. However, in this particular case, I believe that the 
feature of reading out loud in edge chromium is intended for users in 
general, and not exactly for visual impaired users.


Going further, I flatly believe that these human sounding voices are the 
future for the synthesizers as we know them. I’m not saying this is good 
or bad, but a foreseeable scenario in any case.


Best,
   Leo

On 6/27/2020 6:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Hi Leo,
I assure you that such things matter to many, even if native speakers.
May I ask where to locate neural voices?
Would I be correct in guessing that, these voices cannot be 
incorporated into voiceover as an option?
Its profoundly frustrating, the lack of understanding that some folks 
desire  one or two clear quality voices for their computing needs, 
instead of this odd idea of one voice per task for per program.
After all in theory adaptive tools serves as extension of or 
substitutions for, or  combinations of physical activity in many cases.
I do not use  one pair of hands to do the dishes, and another pair for 
typing.
Fully respecting individual choices, speaking personally, why should I 
apply  one voice for banking and another for reading e-mail?

Kare



On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, Leo Bado wrote:

I find neural voices far more natural when reading large articles. 
For me everything is better, intonation, in-flexion, naturalness, and 
pronunciation. Objectively speaking, these characteristics are very 
important for me since I'm not a native English speaker, but I 
understand that they might not make much of a difference for a native 
English speaker. Well, what can I say? for the most part, this is a 
subjective matter



Best,
   Leo

On 6/27/2020 12:47 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:

 Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when
 using Edge on a Mac??

 - Brad -

 On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado  wrote:

 
 well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; 
however,

 I was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but
 sadly, they don't... and for me this feature it's very important 
since I

 usually read articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are
 working on the latest release, but if someone gives it a try, let 
us know.




 Best,
 Leo
 On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>  I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works 
very >  well. You can definitely tell that it's based on code from 
Chromium >  since voiceover reads things very similarly to how 
things read in >  Chrome, but there are some differences. I'm not 
sure if Microsoft took > steps to make Edge accessible or if this 
was automatic from how Chromium >  is designed, either way, we now 
have another accessible browser on Mac >  OS and that's a good thing.
> 


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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Pete,

I just did. I figure I'll live with it fora while and see what I think.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:03 PM, Pete De Vasto  wrote:
> 
> Just a thought, Donna: Unlike Mac OS where the dock is always present, 
> unless I’m missing something, the only way you can make the dock visible on 
> the iPhone is to get back to the home screen from whatever app you are in. 
> Maybe there’s a way you could creat some sort of script to do a VO+H to get 
> to the home screen and then VO+Dots 4 5 6 to get to the dock. For now I 
> think, ultimately, as E.T. has already said, that the best solution for you 
> is to rearrange the four items on your dock, thinking about which one you use 
> most (like Mail for you, right?) and putting that one on the very right side. 
> Will it take getting used to? You bet! Will you double-tap on the wrong one a 
> time or two? Sure! But, once you get used to the new arrangement, I bet 
> you’ll be glad you did it! I’ve rearranged my dock a few times when I’ve 
> needed to and boy has that come in handy! And drag and drop is pretty good 
> now with VO, at least it has been for me. OK, end of rearranging icons sales 
> pitch, I hope you don’t mind donna!
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:41 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Pete,
>> 
>> Yeah, I think dots 456-chord is as good as it gets. It just surprises me. 
>> Moving to the dock is such a common thing on i-devices that I would think 
>> there would be a command for it.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:11 PM, Pete De Vasto  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna and all,
>>> 
>>> I’m very late to the party with this thread, and my suggestion may have 
>>> already been posted. I have an older Focus 40 Blue display, and when I’m on 
>>> the home screen I can press Space + dots 4, 5 and 6, and focus lands on the 
>>> right-most icon of the dock. Since there are only four items on the dock, 
>>> it’s not a big deal, at least for me, to move left a time or two to get to 
>>> the icon on the dock that I want. I also went to VO settings, and looked at 
>>> the Braille commands lists as I am sure you have as well, and I couldn’t 
>>> find a specific Go To Dock command. Hopefully space + 4 5 6 is a good 
>>> enough workaround, although I know it’s not ideal.
>>> 
>>> Pete De Vasto
>>> 
 On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:03 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a 
> qwerty command.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> Sent from my iPad
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
>> Its the right command key though.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
>>> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
>>> 
>>> Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 No, I don't either.
 So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
 keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
 minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard 
 with iOS.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 
> items on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did 
> not see ay options for the dock in the assignment list.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s 
>> not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it 
>> seems like there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I 
>> wonder if you can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play 
>> around with that.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at

Re: downloading with Safari on a Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

You can still get the old Downloads window back, if you want it badly enough. 
But it’s a fiddly thing: you have to drag and drop the Downloads button out of 
the toolbar, and doing that with VO is still surprisingly hard because you’ll 
usually activate it in the process. It’s easier just to press the button (or 
Command-Option-L), find the table, interact with that, then find and interact 
with the download of interest, and there’s your progress metre and transfer 
stats. I should go into Safari preferences and change the “Remove downloads” 
option to “Upon successful download” so your list will clean itself up 
automagically.

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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Matthew Whitaker]

I have never tried it before on iOS and on the mac.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:49 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’d use Downcast because it has a Mac app, but it has (had?) a distressing 
> habit of destroying its synchronisation state database on a fairly regular 
> basis. How are things nowadays with that app. Are there really any other 
> choices for users of both iOS and macOS, besides Apple Podcasts and iTunes? 
> Must I really consent to simply giving up hope of using a desktop podcasts 
> app?
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

[Pete De Vasto]

Just a thought, Donna: Unlike Mac OS where the dock is always present, unless 
I’m missing something, the only way you can make the dock visible on the iPhone 
is to get back to the home screen from whatever app you are in. Maybe there’s a 
way you could creat some sort of script to do a VO+H to get to the home screen 
and then VO+Dots 4 5 6 to get to the dock. For now I think, ultimately, as E.T. 
has already said, that the best solution for you is to rearrange the four items 
on your dock, thinking about which one you use most (like Mail for you, right?) 
and putting that one on the very right side. Will it take getting used to? You 
bet! Will you double-tap on the wrong one a time or two? Sure! But, once you 
get used to the new arrangement, I bet you’ll be glad you did it! I’ve 
rearranged my dock a few times when I’ve needed to and boy has that come in 
handy! And drag and drop is pretty good now with VO, at least it has been for 
me. OK, end of rearranging icons sales pitch, I hope you don’t mind donna!

Pete De Vasto
 
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:41 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Pete,
> 
> Yeah, I think dots 456-chord is as good as it gets. It just surprises me. 
> Moving to the dock is such a common thing on i-devices that I would think 
> there would be a command for it.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:11 PM, Pete De Vasto  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna and all,
>> 
>> I’m very late to the party with this thread, and my suggestion may have 
>> already been posted. I have an older Focus 40 Blue display, and when I’m on 
>> the home screen I can press Space + dots 4, 5 and 6, and focus lands on the 
>> right-most icon of the dock. Since there are only four items on the dock, 
>> it’s not a big deal, at least for me, to move left a time or two to get to 
>> the icon on the dock that I want. I also went to VO settings, and looked at 
>> the Braille commands lists as I am sure you have as well, and I couldn’t 
>> find a specific Go To Dock command. Hopefully space + 4 5 6 is a good enough 
>> workaround, although I know it’s not ideal.
>> 
>> Pete De Vasto
>> 
>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:03 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a 
 qwerty command.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
> Its the right command key though.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
>> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
>> 
>> Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> No, I don't either.
>>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
>>> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
>>> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard 
>>> with iOS.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 
 items on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did 
 not see ay options for the dock in the assignment list.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s 
> not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems 
> like there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder 
> if you can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around 
> with that.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last 
>> item on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe

Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

[Jonathan Cohn]

When I put containers in my rotor and then switched over to them, space with 
dots 6 did indeed move me to the beginning of my dock.
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 28, 2020, at 1:38 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to decide 
> what is more important, keeping the dock in its current configuration or 
> changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail when using a braille 
> display.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:Macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>    Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
>>> command.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  > wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
 Its the right command key though.
 /A
 
> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  >:
> 
> An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
> 
> Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> No, I don't either.
>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
>> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
>> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard 
>> with iOS.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see 
>>> ay options for the dock in the assignment list.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s 
 not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems 
 like there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder 
 if you can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around 
 with that.
 Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  > wrote:
> 
>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item 
> on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>> Best,
>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
 mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>> 
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it’s chord d…
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you 
 directly to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 
 chord will take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you 
 still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm 
 hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
 the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
>>

Re: Apple podcast app alternative

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

I’d use Downcast because it has a Mac app, but it has (had?) a distressing 
habit of destroying its synchronisation state database on a fairly regular 
basis. How are things nowadays with that app. Are there really any other 
choices for users of both iOS and macOS, besides Apple Podcasts and iTunes? 
Must I really consent to simply giving up hope of using a desktop podcasts app?

Cheers,
Sabahattin

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   It won't take you long at all to test this and see.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/28/2020 10:38 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to decide 
what is more important, keeping the dock in its current configuration or 
changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail when using a braille display.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
command.
Cheers,
Donna
Sent from my iPad

On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:


Hi!
Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
Its the right command key though.
/A


27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
:

  An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands to 
move to the top ot bottom of the container.

  Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
No, I don't either.
So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
Cheers,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

  Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items on 
the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay options 
for the dock in the assignment list.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a huge 
deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there should be 
a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a 
custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on the 
screen so use space 4-5-6.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:


I think it’s chord d…

Cait



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
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car

Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Pete,

Yeah, I think dots 456-chord is as good as it gets. It just surprises me. 
Moving to the dock is such a common thing on i-devices that I would think there 
would be a command for it.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:11 PM, Pete De Vasto  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna and all,
> 
> I’m very late to the party with this thread, and my suggestion may have 
> already been posted. I have an older Focus 40 Blue display, and when I’m on 
> the home screen I can press Space + dots 4, 5 and 6, and focus lands on the 
> right-most icon of the dock. Since there are only four items on the dock, 
> it’s not a big deal, at least for me, to move left a time or two to get to 
> the icon on the dock that I want. I also went to VO settings, and looked at 
> the Braille commands lists as I am sure you have as well, and I couldn’t find 
> a specific Go To Dock command. Hopefully space + 4 5 6 is a good enough 
> workaround, although I know it’s not ideal.
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:03 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
>>> command.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> Sent from my iPad
 On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
 wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
 Its the right command key though.
 /A
 
> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
> commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
> 
> Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> No, I don't either.
>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
>> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
>> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard 
>> with iOS.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see 
>>> ay options for the dock in the assignment list.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s 
 not a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems 
 like there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder 
 if you can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around 
 with that.
 Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item 
> on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>> Best,
>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it’s chord d…
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you 
 directly to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 
 chord will take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you 
 still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm 
 hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
 the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
>>

Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Not yet. I kinda like the dock how I have it, so I guess I’ll have to decide 
what is more important, keeping the dock in its current configuration or 
changing it up so that I can quickly move to Mail when using a braille display.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 12:03 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
>> command.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> Sent from my iPad
 On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
>>> Its the right command key though.
>>> /A
>>> 
 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 :
 
  An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
 commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
 
  Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> No, I don't either.
> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with 
> iOS.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay 
>> options for the dock in the assignment list.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not 
>>> a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like 
>>> there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you 
>>> can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item 
 on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
> Best,
> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think it’s chord d…
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly 
>>> to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will 
>>> take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to 
>>> scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's 
>>> some way to just move directly to the first item in the dock.  
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on 
>>> the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving e

Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

[Pete De Vasto]

Hi Donna and all,

I’m very late to the party with this thread, and my suggestion may have already 
been posted. I have an older Focus 40 Blue display, and when I’m on the home 
screen I can press Space + dots 4, 5 and 6, and focus lands on the right-most 
icon of the dock. Since there are only four items on the dock, it’s not a big 
deal, at least for me, to move left a time or two to get to the icon on the 
dock that I want. I also went to VO settings, and looked at the Braille 
commands lists as I am sure you have as well, and I couldn’t find a specific Go 
To Dock command. Hopefully space + 4 5 6 is a good enough workaround, although 
I know it’s not ideal.

Pete De Vasto

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:03 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
>> command.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
>>> Its the right command key though.
>>> /A
>>> 
 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 :
 
  An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign 
 commands to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
 
  Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> No, I don't either.
> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a 
> keyboard command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to 
> minimize all the futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with 
> iOS.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay 
>> options for the dock in the assignment list.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not 
>>> a huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like 
>>> there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you 
>>> can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item 
 on the screen so use space 4-5-6.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
> Best,
> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think it’s chord d…
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly 
>>> to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will 
>>> take you to the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to 
>>> scroll backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's 
>>> some way to just move directly to the first item in the dock.  
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on 
>>> the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quin

Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Donna, did you move the mail app to the very far right on the dock?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/28/2020 9:54 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
command.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
Its the right command key though.
/A


27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
:

  An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands to 
move to the top ot bottom of the container.

  Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
No, I don't either.
So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
Cheers,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

  Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items on 
the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay options 
for the dock in the assignment list.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a huge 
deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there should be 
a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can create it with a 
custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

   There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on the 
screen so use space 4-5-6.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
Best,
Donna

On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness  wrote:


I think it’s chord d…

Cait



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to the dock 
on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you to the bottom of 
the screen, but then you still have to scroll backward to get to the top of the 
dock.  I'm hoping there's some way to just move directly to the first item in 
the dock.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Cheers,
Donna

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks, Anders, but I’m looking for a braille display command, not a qwerty 
command.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:20 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
> Its the right command key though.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>>  An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands 
>> to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
>> 
>>  Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> No, I don't either.
>>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
>>> command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
>>> futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
  Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
 on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay 
 options for the dock in the assignment list.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a 
> huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like 
> there should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you 
> can create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on 
>> the screen so use space 4-5-6.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
>  wrote:
 
 I think it’s chord d…
 
 Cait
 
 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly 
> to the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take 
> you to the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll 
> backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way 
> to just move directly to the first item in the dock.  Thanks in 
> advance for any help.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Matthew Whitaker]

I just started using Overcast again more often not too long ago. It is great. 
:-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 11:30 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> DownCast can be used on the mac too.
> But i check if the other ones can.
> /A
> 
>> 28 juni 2020 kl. 15:11 skrev Phil Halton :
>> 
>> thanks, I’ll give overcast a try. Anything is got to be better than Apple’s 
>> podcast
>> 
>> Sent from my IPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Whitaker 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use the Apple Podcasts app and Overcast... whatever I feel like using I 
>>> guess What’s the difference between Downcast and Castro? Sounds like 
>>> two good options for us to use. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:02 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
 
 I use OverCast. I hear a number of Blind IOS users are switching to a 
 PodCast App called Castro.
 
 Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
 Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words 
 without a heart.”
 
 
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>>> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Greg,

To raise or lower the volume on your new MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, try using 
VO and the minus/equal keys, located immediately to the left of the backspace 
key.

HTH

- Brad -

On Jun 28, 2020, at 11:22, Greg Wocher  wrote:

Hello,
The only issue I am reading about with the new MacBook airs is that they run 
hot. Especially with the i7 versions. This is why I recently purchased the 13 
inch MacBook Pro. I got the version with the 10th gen quad core i5, 16gigs of 
ram and a 1TB SSD. It is running very well. I am a little iffy on the Touch 
Bar. Its not hard to use, it just makes certain things a bit more difficult to 
do. For example raising or lowering the volume takes several double taps to 
perform. I do really like the new keyboards. They are nice and quiet with good 
separation between the keys.

Greg Wocher

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> You will manage with an Air i think.
> And a good usb hub.
> /A
> 
>>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 18:38 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> :
>> 
>> Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my list. 
>> I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
>> 
>> If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>>> processor in the Air.
>>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
>>> If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
>>> one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
>>> your money.
>>> - Brad -
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines >> > wrote:
>>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
>>> now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
>>> reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
>>> have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
>>> would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
>>> dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly 
>>> learning to live with it. Very best wall.
>>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
 On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi ET,
 
 I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
 book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >>> >
 Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
 
 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
 though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
 starts at $1799.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> Hi all.
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
> I can get.
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
> 
> 
>  
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>  campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
> you can reach Cara
> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> The archives for this list c

Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Greg Wocher]

Hello,
The only issue I am reading about with the new MacBook airs is that they run 
hot. Especially with the i7 versions. This is why I recently purchased the 13 
inch MacBook Pro. I got the version with the 10th gen quad core i5, 16gigs of 
ram and a 1TB SSD. It is running very well. I am a little iffy on the Touch 
Bar. Its not hard to use, it just makes certain things a bit more difficult to 
do. For example raising or lowering the volume takes several double taps to 
perform. I do really like the new keyboards. They are nice and quiet with good 
separation between the keys.

Greg Wocher

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 11:17 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> You will manage with an Air i think.
> And a good usb hub.
> /A
> 
>> 27 juni 2020 kl. 18:38 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>>  Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my list. 
>> I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
>> 
>>  If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>>> processor in the Air.
>>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   
>>> If you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that 
>>> one, you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for 
>>> your money.
>>> - Brad -
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines >> > wrote:
>>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week 
>>> now yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main 
>>> reason why it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I 
>>> have a written expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably 
>>> would not be able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use 
>>> dictation software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly 
>>> learning to live with it. Very best wall.
>>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
 On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi ET,
 
 I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
 book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >>> >
 Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
 
 I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
 though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
 starts at $1799.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> Hi all.
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
> I can get.
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
> Very best wishes.
> Andy.
> 
> 
>  
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>  campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
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> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
> you can reach Cara
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
DownCast can be used on the mac too.
But i check if the other ones can.
/A

> 28 juni 2020 kl. 15:11 skrev Phil Halton :
> 
> thanks, I’ll give overcast a try. Anything is got to be better than Apple’s 
> podcast
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Whitaker 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I use the Apple Podcasts app and Overcast... whatever I feel like using I 
>> guess What’s the difference between Downcast and Castro? Sounds like two 
>> good options for us to use. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:02 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use OverCast. I hear a number of Blind IOS users are switching to a 
>>> PodCast App called Castro.
>>> 
>>> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
>>> Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words 
>>> without a heart.”
>>> 
>>> 
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>>>  
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>> 
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Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I am not a native inglish speaker but really like aron compact for reading 
things on the internet.
That’s if i am lazy and don’t wanna poke with my braille display.
/A

> 27 juni 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev Leo Bado :
> 
> I find neural voices far more natural when reading large articles. For me 
> everything is better, intonation, in-flexion, naturalness, and pronunciation. 
> Objectively speaking, these characteristics are very important for me since 
> I'm not a native English speaker, but I understand that they might not make 
> much of a difference for a native English speaker. Well, what can I say? for 
> the most part, this is a subjective matter 
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
>Leo
> On 6/27/2020 12:47 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>> Why don't you just use VoiceOver to read articles on the Internet when using 
>> Edge on a Mac??
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 13:15, Leo Bado  
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> well, yes, I tried it out some weeks ago and it worked just fine; however, I 
>> was expecting that the neural voices worked on the mac as well, but sadly, 
>> they don't... and for me this feature it's very important since I usually 
>> read articles on internet. I don't know if those voices are working on the 
>> latest release, but if someone gives it a try, let us know.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>>Leo
>> On 6/27/2020 9:21 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>> I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. 
>>> You can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since 
>>> voiceover reads things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but 
>>> there are some differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make 
>>> Edge accessible or if this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, 
>>> either way, we now have another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a 
>>> good thing. 
>>> 
> 
> 
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Re: Is there a braille command for moving to the dock in IOS?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Or you could use the command m to open mail without going to the doc.
Its the right command key though.
/A

> 27 juni 2020 kl. 20:33 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
>   An idea. If the dock qualifies as a container then you can assign commands 
> to move to the top ot bottom of the container.
> 
>   Also too, you can move those apps to different locations on the dock.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/27/2020 11:31 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> No, I don't either.
>> So Mail is the first item in my dock. I want to be able to issue a keyboard 
>> command, and land on Mail so I can open it. Just trying to minimize all the 
>> futzing around you have to do when using a keyboard with iOS.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:28 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Well maybe I don't understand. iPhone or iPad? There are only 4/5 items 
>>> on the dock. Thre is no top to the dock. Clue me in. :) I did not see ay 
>>> options for the dock in the assignment list.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/27/2020 11:18 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 I do, but that takes you all the way to the end of the screen. It’s not a 
 huge deal, you just have to scroll backwards them. But it seems like there 
 should be a braille command for moving the dock. I wonder if you can 
 create it with a custom command. Maybe I’ll play around with that.
 Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:16 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    There is not a specific command for the dock. It is the last item on 
> the screen so use space 4-5-6.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 6/27/2020 10:40 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I tried that, but it doesn't work. At least not with my VU.
>> Best,
>> Donna
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:09 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it’s chord d…
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:13 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Subject says it all. Is there a command that will take you directly to 
 the dock on a braille display? I know the dot-456 chord will take you 
 to the bottom of the screen, but then you still have to scroll 
 backward to get to the top of the dock.  I'm hoping there's some way 
 to just move directly to the first item in the dock.  Thanks in 
 advance for any help.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
You will manage with an Air i think.
And a good usb hub.
/A

> 27 juni 2020 kl. 18:38 skrev 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
>   Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my list. 
> I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
> 
>   If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>> processor in the Air.
>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   If 
>> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
>> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
>> money.
>> - Brad -
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines > > wrote:
>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
>> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
>> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
>> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be 
>> able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation 
>> software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning 
>> to live with it. Very best wall.
>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi ET,
>>> 
>>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >> >
>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>>> 
>>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>>> starts at $1799.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi all.
 Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
 I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
 I can get.
 I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
 I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
 Any ideas on which model to look for.
 Very best wishes.
 Andy.
 
 
  
 Virus-free. www.avast.com 
 
 
 
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

['Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

Downcast on my I phone.  I did use it on the Mac but it had issues so I use it 
on my phone.  I must have been using it for over 7 or eight years since 
Downcast came out.

> On 28 Jun 2020, at 14:11, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> thanks, I’ll give overcast a try. Anything is got to be better than Apple’s 
> podcast
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Whitaker 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I use the Apple Podcasts app and Overcast... whatever I feel like using I 
>> guess What’s the difference between Downcast and Castro? Sounds like two 
>> good options for us to use. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:02 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use OverCast. I hear a number of Blind IOS users are switching to a 
>>> PodCast App called Castro.
>>> 
>>> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
>>> Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words 
>>> without a heart.”
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: beta testers?

[Kliph Senior]

In general, any beta you use qualifies.  For 14 and Big Sur, developer beta’s 
but for iOS 13 you can discuss in the group any time
Are you testing an apple beta?  want to discuss bugs with other testers?  Then 
come join a friendly, helpful, laid back community where we can squash these 
bugs together, and report them to apple. Subscribe here
public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io
Because of the non disclosure agreement, I have to say if your not a beta 
tester, please don’t join the group.


> On Jun 28, 2020, at 3:53 AM, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Cliff 
>  
> Is this for IOS / iPadOs 14 or in general?
>  
> As yet I’m still running IOS 13 PB and don’t expect that to change until 
> Appple drop the PB in July.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>   > On Behalf Of Kliph Senior
> Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 7:25 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: beta testers?
>  
> If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  Contact 
> me at
> sturi...@icloud.com 
> Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
>  
>  
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Re: beta testers?

[Kliph Senior]

Yes donna, this group has been active for the last 3 years.  I only use beta’s 
now because they are so stable.  The group info is below.  Also for anyone 
running the dev beta and wants to chat about it just email me at 
sturi...@icloud.com  I will be hosting a zoom call 
tomorrow
Are you testing an apple beta?  want to discuss bugs with other testers?  Then 
come join a friendly, helpful, laid back community where we can squash these 
bugs together, and report them to apple. Subscribe here
public-beta-users+subscr...@groups.io
Because of the non disclosure agreement, I have to say if your not a beta 
tester, please don’t join the group.


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:53 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey Kliph,
> 
> I was just thinking about installing the beta. Is that group still live?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Kliph Senior > > wrote:
>> 
>> I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  
>>> Contact me at
>>> sturi...@icloud.com 
>>> Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: whitch Macbook pro

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Unless you do very heavy gaming or picture or video work you can just go for a 
macbook Air.
I would do that but i would get more space than the standard.
/A

> 27 juni 2020 kl. 05:41 skrev Simon A Fogarty :
> 
> Andy,
>  
> Why do you need a pro?
>  
> I have been playing around with the 2020 mac book air recently and I really 
> liked it.
>  
> It has the finger print sensor but no touch bar,
> 2 USB_C ports on the left hand edge,
> And the new keyboard replacement to the butterfly keyboard.
>  
> Otherwise a great little device.
> Personally I can’t see what the average person would need the pro for now 
> days.
>  
> From: 'andrew' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 10:38 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: whitch Macbook pro
>  
> Hi all.
>  
> Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
>  
> I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as I can 
> get.
>  
> I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
>  
> I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
>  
> Any ideas on which model to look for.
>  
> Very best wishes.
>  
> Andy.
>  
>  
> 
> 
> Virus-free. www.avast.com 
> 
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Re: Zoom breakout rooms?

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Oh, good! Thank you!
Donna


Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 9:54 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've done a little of this, mostly just in testing mode.  Everything was 
> accessible to me, although I didn't try it with more than about four 
> participants.  I expect it would be much different though
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 08:01, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone have experience setting up Zoom breakout rooms? Is that process 
> accessible?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
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Re: Zoom breakout rooms?

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I've done a little of this, mostly just in testing mode.  Everything was 
accessible to me, although I didn't try it with more than about four 
participants.  I expect it would be much different though

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 27, 2020, at 08:01, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi all,

Does anyone have experience setting up Zoom breakout rooms? Is that process 
accessible?
Cheers,
Donna


Sent from my iPad

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Re: Question regarding the Doc on Mac.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I don’t get this either.
I use the doc sommetimes but he can open his download folder when he’s at the 
desktop by pressing cmd option l.
/A

> 27 juni 2020 kl. 15:56 skrev alia robinson :
> 
> I don’t get anything like that, but I set up where command n will open my 
> downloads so I never use the doc, not for anything honestly.
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:52 AM, 'Gary Price' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yo everyone!
> This is Gary here.
> 
> Please can anyone tell me if they have noticed something strange recently.
> I'm talking to my friend in Australia, he has noticed something strange with 
> the Doc on Mac.
> 
> When he goes to say Downloads, when he presses Enter a menu comes up on the 
> screen, but VoiceOver wont speak anything and the keyboard is totally  
> nresponsive.
> 
> I know this because he has a little bit of sight.
> 
> I've just tried this on my Mac and I can duplicate the exact same thing.
> 
> This is since updating to the latest Mac operating system of catalina.
> 10.155
> 
> thanks very much!
> I look forward to any responses!
> Gary Price
> Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.
> 
> This address is for personal contact:
> garypric...@icloud.com
> 
> Twitter:
> http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice
> 
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Re: Apple podcast app alternative

[Phil Halton]

thanks, I’ll give overcast a try. Anything is got to be better than Apple’s 
podcast

Sent from my IPhone


> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Whitaker 
>  wrote:
> 
> I use the Apple Podcasts app and Overcast... whatever I feel like using I 
> guess What’s the difference between Downcast and Castro? Sounds like two 
> good options for us to use. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:02 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
>>> 
>> I use OverCast. I hear a number of Blind IOS users are switching to a 
>> PodCast App called Castro.
>> 
>> Angus MacKinnon, Personalism Student
>> Ghandi said, “ It is better to have a heart without words than words without 
>> a heart.”
>> 
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Re: beta testers?

['Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries]

One personal invite I got from Apple had as subject header “ AppleSeed:  You're 
Invited to test macOS Bug Sur!” - do you think their mid-spelling of the name 
is an ominous sign?
Harry

> On 28 Jun 2020, at 09:54, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Ignore my previous message.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Kliph Senior
> Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 7:31 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: beta testers?
>  
> I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14
>  
> 
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior  wrote:
>  
> If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  Contact 
> me at
> sturi...@icloud.com
> Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.
>  
>  
>  
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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Don't ask as it's kind of scary 



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 10:48 AM
To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Actually Donna, your posts generate a question...perhaps one worth its own 
thread.
Just how many devices do most of you own?
Kare



On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:

> Just to throw something else into the mix here, I’d been thinking about 
> replacing my 2017 MBP, but have decided to wait till the Macs with the new 
> silicon chip are released. Something to think about, unless you really need 
> to replace it now.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:42 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>>
>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>> processor in the Air.
>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.  If 
>> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
>> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
>> money.
>>
>> - Brad -
>>
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines  wrote:
>>
>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
>> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
>> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
>> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be 
>> able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation 
>> software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning 
>> to live with it. Very best wall.
>>
>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi ET,
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac 
>>> book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>>>
>>>  I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>>> starts at $1799.
>>>
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>>
 On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi all.
 Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
 I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
 I can get.
 I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
 I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
 Any ideas on which model to look for.
 Very best wishes.
 Andy.

 
Virus-free. www.avast.com
 


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 30%248b01a8c0%40andywin7
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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hi Petrus,

You also find the butterfly keyboard ok as well?

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 10:03 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Yes, I like my MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar. Although the new ones with the 
physical escape button would be an improvement. It is very easy too 
accidentally touch the bar and VoiceOver will say escape. Using VoiceOver isn’t 
so bad as we need to double tap to activate it but I’ve heard that sighted 
users are accidentally touching the escape key quite a lot. I think that’s why 
they changed it back to a button.


On 27/06/2020, at 15:37, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Hi ET,

I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a mac book 
pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with it,



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

   I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar though 
as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports starts at $1799.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi all.
Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as
I can get.
I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
Any ideas on which model to look for.
Very best wishes.
Andy.


Virus-free. www.avast.com



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RE: beta testers?

[Simon A Fogarty]

Cheers,
Ignore my previous message.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Kliph Senior
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 7:31 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: beta testers?

I am sorry, meant dev beta for 14



On Jun 27, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kliph Senior 
mailto:kliph.sen...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  Contact 
me at
sturi...@icloud.com
Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.



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RE: beta testers?

[Simon A Fogarty]

Cliff

Is this for IOS / iPadOs 14 or in general?

As yet I’m still running IOS 13 PB and don’t expect that to change until Appple 
drop the PB in July.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Kliph Senior
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 7:25 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: beta testers?

If you are running the public beta, and would like to chat about it.  Contact 
me at
sturi...@icloud.com
Gonna have a zoom meeting to discuss experiences and bugs.


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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

The 2020 mba now have the new keyboard which is not the butterfly,

I believe the pros now have the newer keyboard also.

That started I believe with the 16" mac book pro devices last year.



-Original Message-
From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 5:02 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

As long as its not the butterfly one which I have not heard good things 
about.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/27/2020 9:57 AM, Brad Snyder wrote:
> Keyboard is the same. Only difference is the Touch Bar.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Jun 27, 2020, at 11:39, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>    Based on much of the comments to this thread, the MBP will stay on my 
> list. I run VMware Fusion plus I have a media library.
> 
>If I don't like the keyboard I can use my external one.
> 
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
> true?
> 
>> On 6/26/2020 11:42 PM, Brad Snyder wrote:
>> don’t be fooled by the specs.  The processor in the MacBook Pro smokes the 
>> processor in the Air.
>> If all you want to do is email and browse the web, then go for the Air.   If 
>> you want to do real work, there is no substitute for the MacBook Pro.
>> Just don’t waste your money on the bottom level MacBook Pro with 2 USB-C 
>> ports and the 8th generation processor.  If you are thinking about that one, 
>> you should go ahead and get the Air.  It is a much better option for your 
>> money.
>> - Brad -
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 23:55, maurice mines > > wrote:
>> Hello, I’m using a MacBook Pro 2020 I been using it for not quite a week now 
>> yes the Touch Bar takes it some getting used to. But but the main reason why 
>> it is a  MacBook Pro is because of my additional disability I have a written 
>> expression disorder that if I typed this email you probably would not be 
>> able to read it. Think of it as dyslexia of writing. So I use dictation 
>> software. Like I said the Touch Bar is a bit weird but I’m slowly learning 
>> to live with it. Very best wall.
>> Sincerely Maurice Mines.
 On Jun 26, 2020, at 20:37, Simon A Fogarty >>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi ET,
>>>
>>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a 
>>> mac book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with 
>>> it,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries >> >
>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>>>
>>>   I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>>> starts at $1799.
>>>
>>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>>> true?
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi all.
 Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
 I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's 
 as I can get.
 I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
 I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
 Any ideas on which model to look for.
 Very best wishes.
 Andy.

 
 Virus-free. www.avast.com  
 


 <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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 Visionaries list.

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 list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hi Brad,

The new 2020 have 2 but both on left edge where ac power was.
Headphone jack is on the right hand edge at back corner.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Brad Snyder
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 3:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

MacBook Airs have 2 USB-C ports.  One on each side.  Except for the headphone 
port, there are no other ports on the Air.

- Brad -

On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:36, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Andy,

I don't know how many USBs the new MacBook Airs have, but I can tell you that 
when I replace this MacBook Pro, it will probably be with an Air. I'm very meh 
about the Pro, but I absolutely loved my Air.
Cheers,
Donna



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:19 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Donna.

I'd agree with you 100% .  Why use up a perfectly good USB  which you may 
rarely use.

Perhaps this is an option I can add to my new Mac set up.t, though the number 
of USB's and the quality of the keyboard are of great importance to me.

I love the Apple External full-size USB keyboard, so there is a USB used up 
immediately and my External USB drive is another.  So I need more than 2 USB'S

Very best wishes.

Andy.

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Yeah, but how often do you really need a DVD drive? I bought a portable one 
that I keep in a desk drawer, and only connect it when I need it. About the 
only thing I ever use it for is importing CDs into my iTunes library, which I 
rarely need to do now, as most of my music has already been imported. So that 
DVD drive spends most of its life just sitting there in the drawer. I would 
never have it permanently hooked up to my Mac, that'd just be a waste of a 
perfectly good USB port.
Cheers,
Donna


On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dave Carlson 
mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote:

How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson 
mailto:a...@anarchie.org.uk>> wrote:

Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,

Anne





On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Simon.

I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.


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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Janina
2 in the one I was using.
Usb-C on the back left hand edge,

Note that one of those USB-C ports is also for power as well.

I highly recommend a Usb-C hub if you can as they normally have power pass 
through


From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 3:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Hi Andy,

I don't know how many USBs the new MacBook Airs have, but I can tell you that 
when I replace this MacBook Pro, it will probably be with an Air. I'm very meh 
about the Pro, but I absolutely loved my Air.
Cheers,
Donna



On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:19 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Donna.

I'd agree with you 100% .  Why use up a perfectly good USB  which you may 
rarely use.

Perhaps this is an option I can add to my new Mac set up.t, though the number 
of USB's and the quality of the keyboard are of great importance to me.

I love the Apple External full-size USB keyboard, so there is a USB used up 
immediately and my External USB drive is another.  So I need more than 2 USB'S

Very best wishes.

Andy.

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Yeah, but how often do you really need a DVD drive? I bought a portable one 
that I keep in a desk drawer, and only connect it when I need it. About the 
only thing I ever use it for is importing CDs into my iTunes library, which I 
rarely need to do now, as most of my music has already been imported. So that 
DVD drive spends most of its life just sitting there in the drawer. I would 
never have it permanently hooked up to my Mac, that'd just be a waste of a 
perfectly good USB port.
Cheers,
Donna


On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dave Carlson 
mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote:

How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson 
mailto:a...@anarchie.org.uk>> wrote:

Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,

Anne





On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Simon.

I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.


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RE: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

[Simon A Fogarty]

Totally separate download.

Nothing to do with office 365  or currently windows as it’s not yet in the 
windows os installation.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Dave Carlson
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 3:26 AM
To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Microsoft Edge on the Mac

Mike,
Is MS Edge part of the Office 365 suite, or a separate download?

Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 8:21 AM, Mike Arrigo 
mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:

I decided to give the new Microsoft Edge browser a try, it works very well. You 
can definitely tell that it's based on code from Chromium since voiceover reads 
things very similarly to how things read in Chrome, but there are some 
differences. I'm not sure if Microsoft took steps to make Edge accessible or if 
this was automatic from how Chromium is designed, either way, we now have 
another accessible browser on Mac OS and that's a good thing.

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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

You could get a usb DvD drive and connect that to a USb hub or USB-C hub so you 
have only one connection to the computer and everything is connected to the hub 
such as the keyboard and mouse ethernet etc.


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Dave Carlson
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 2:24 AM
To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

How true, Ann. So that means yet one more cable to hook to my nice beautiful 
sleek MBP so that with a power cord, keyboard, iPhone sync cable, and DVD 
drive, it starts to look like my old Windows PC with spaghetti all around it.
Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Farfar, Engineer, Musician, Pioneer, and Woodworker

On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Anne Robertson 
mailto:a...@anarchie.org.uk>> wrote:

Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,

Anne





On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Simon.

I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.


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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

And as for the function keys,

I believe there is a way to use the number row as function keys
But I never spent enough time working with that type of machine to try that 
function.

-Original Message-
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Sunday, 28 June 2020 12:08 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

I would add that I also use an MBP with a touch bar. I’ve gotten used to it, 
but I’m not really a fan. I love how it’s contextualized, but I almost always 
have to tap it three or four times to get it to activate. Overall, I would say 
using the touch bar is slower than using function keys. I’m seriously 
considering going back to the Air just to get function keys back.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 4:37 AM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi July.
> 
> I hate my Phone.  I've had three of them now and simply haven't spent enough 
> time learning about the command swipes, so I just use my phone for emergency 
> cover when in town.  Bit of a waste eh?  I like my 2013 Macbook pro as it has 
> a reasonable keyboard with no swip bar and I can use a full size apple 
> keyboard.  So I'm not sure at all about the Air.
> 
> Very best wishes.
> 
> Andy.
> - Original Message - From: "Julie Rattray" 
> 
> To: "'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries" 
> 
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 5:05 AM
> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
> 
> 
>> Yes I use a Mac with a Touch Bar and really like it it does help with 
>> certain tasks and if you are used to using the iPhone etc getting used to it 
>> is not really to difficult.
>> 
 On 27 Jun 2020, at 04:37, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi ET,
>>> 
>>> I'm not a fan of the touch bar myself but Petrus Sterling is using a 
>>> mac book pro with the touch bar and I believe he's very happy with 
>>> it,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:06 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro
>>> 
>>>   I've been looking at this too. I'm not concerned about the Touch Bar 
>>> though as I will likely get used to it. The 13" model with 4 USB ports 
>>> starts at $1799.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>>> true?
>>> 
>>> On 6/26/2020 3:37 PM, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 Hi all.
 Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.
 I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's 
 as I can get.
 I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.
 I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.
 Any ideas on which model to look for.
 Very best wishes.
 Andy.
 
 
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>>> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives f

RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Sorry yes Andrew
Anne is correct,
There is no optical drive in any of the mac computers now.


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 11:45 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 

Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Andy, as far as I know, no Apple computers come with a built-in DVD drive 
anymore.
Cheers,

Anne





On 27 Jun 2020, at 11:47, 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Simon.

I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.

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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Yeah I wish I had have waited til now rather than purchasing a 2018 MBP 13”
I’m really not a fan of the butterfly keyboards,

Not to mention the new devices seem to be a smaller size yet keep the same 
screen size,

The 2020 mac book air I was working with wasn’t allot larger than my 2013 11” 
mac book air,

About a centermeter longer,
And about 4 centermeters deeper,

Shame about the lower speed processor they have put in them.

I5 1.1GHz quad core
Or
An I7 1.4GHz quad core

Still they are quick.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Dave Carlson
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 10:59 PM
To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Good to hear about that butterfly keyboard. Not happy with it. Maybe a good 
reason to upgrade to the latest MBP...
Dave Carlson
 Oregonian, Engineer, Musician, Woodworker, and Pioneer

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RE: whitch Macbook pro

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hi Andrew,

Yes I actually prefer the older machines that I could rplace the ram and HDD / 
ssd to larger sizes  but oh well all those times have gone.

And thanks,
We’ve had a few cases turn up over the last couple of weeks but we’re doing 
pretty well.

I personally think we’ve done well and had great governance and guidance from 
our PM and her team regarding what to do and when to do it.

It’s been a real team effort from the entire country.

If only the opposing parties in the government would stop the petty bullshit 
and start helping get the country back on it’s feet
Things would be perfect.

But that’s politics

And cheers again from the NZ nation.
From: 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 9:48 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: whitch Macbook pro

Hi Simon.

I like the idea of having a CD/DVD reader, though I hardly ever use that.

My 2013 Macbook Pro has a decent keyboard as the keys are quite distinctive.

I use an external full size keyboard because it has a full numeric keypad and 
it has about 3 USB'S.  It's very sturdy and feels so nice and smoove.

I was only thinking of jumping up to something a little fresher and of course, 
I'll still get a couple of hundred for my old one.

Very best wishes.

P.S Simon.  We are all very impressed with NZ over here for it's response to 
the virus.
- Original Message -
From: Simon A Fogarty
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 4:41 AM
Subject: RE: whitch Macbook pro

Andy,

Why do you need a pro?

I have been playing around with the 2020 mac book air recently and I really 
liked it.

It has the finger print sensor but no touch bar,
2 USB_C ports on the left hand edge,
And the new keyboard replacement to the butterfly keyboard.

Otherwise a great little device.
Personally I can’t see what the average person would need the pro for now days.

From: 'andrew' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2020 10:38 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: whitch Macbook pro

Hi all.

Thinking of upgrading my Macbook Pro 2013 to a new machine.

I need a nice full keyboard with sizable buttons and as many USB's as I can get.

I hate the sound of the Tuch Bar that took over from the F keys.

I'll probably also get an external full size keyboard.

Any ideas on which model to look for.

Very best wishes.

Andy.

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]
Virus-free. 
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